Indian Space Program Discussion

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A Sharma
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

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HAL Delivers Mars Orbiter Mission Satellite Structure to ISRO

Bangalore, September 21, 2012: Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL) has handed over the Mars Orbiter Mission Satellite Structure to ISRO Satellite Centre (ISAC) here recently. The mission is aimed at studying the climate, geology, origin and evolution of the red planet.

“The satellite structure is an assembly of composite and metallic honeycomb sandwich panels with a central composite cylinder”, says Mr. R.K. Tyagi, Chairman, HAL. The assembly work was carried out at HAL’s Aerospace Division in Bangalore. ISRO will build the other satellite subsystems and scientific payload onto this structure. The completed satellite will ultimately embark on a nine month voyage to orbit planet Mars. During its orbit the satellite will be at a distance of 54.6 million kms away from Earth: the farthest any Indian satellite would have travelled.
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

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Hi everybody, have been following this space for few years now, thought time to join...self working in GE Energy in chennai, every body here doing a great job...continue your good work..thanks
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Looks like for mars mission, preparations were in place well before Govt. approval. Hope they have considered for all radiations to be encountered in outer space while designing the structure.
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Post by Varoon Shekhar »

There's a reference to an Insat-3D launch by the end of the year. What will be the vehicle, the PSLV with larger strap ons? Or an altogether different version of PSLV, HP(high performance), or is it a GSLV with an Indian cryo? But that is supposed to go up in Jan-Feb with a GSAT, not an Insat. So what will carry the Insat?
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Find the below news..

"The satellite was expected to be launched using the GSLV Mk-II. On December 4, 2010, ISRO Chairman revealed that ISRO was considering the use of an ARIANESPACE launch vehicle for the launch[1]. Launch is expected to be carried in late 2012[2]."
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Post by kit »

Why not launch a human certified Made in India space module as a preclude to an Indian Space station atop the Ariane ? Simultaneously along with the ongoing effort for build heavier launchers .. other wise India will lag behind in some very critical areas that can have ramifications on scientific and tech endeavors as well as security
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Services disrupted as INSAT-3E temporarily lost 'earth lock'
“It is out of danger now, though services are yet to be restored,” a spokesman for the space agency told The Hindu in the evening. . . Built for a life of 15 years, it is now approaching its ninth year in orbit. ISRO’s satellites often outlive their designed life.
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

Post by nachiket »

How does ISRO number the INSAT series? 3E has been in space for 9 years and 3D is just being launched now?
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nachiket wrote:How does ISRO number the INSAT series? 3E has been in space for 9 years and 3D is just being launched now?
It was due to a delay in fabricating this special meteorological satellite that 3E took precedence
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here we go, out of the 25 missions till 2017, 18 for PSLV which is great, but only 5 for GSLV and the worst part in the next 5 years only two launches for MK 3 which probably includes the suborbital flight planned next year.
Now if for any reason (i honestly wish that i am wrong) the Indian Cryo does not work in the next launch too then probably only 1 more attempt for GSLV in the next 5 years
IMHO if ISRO wants to compete with big boys then such a conservative approach will not help.
It seems, either ISRO is happy congratulating themselves by launching PSLV everytime and want to play safe or there seems to be some
understanding that they don;t want the GSLV to succeed or at least delay it as much as possible since when the first PSLV failed in 93 the next attempt was done within the next one year or they stop talking big things and just admit that they are good enough for launching only 500 kg satellites to LEO and not more. At least don;t allow people to have high expectations from ISRO.

In case of GSLV the next attempt after the last failure is around 2013(after 3 years)
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

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Times of India: The scientist who wasn't a spy
Viju B
Nambi Narayanan has lived an extraordinary life. Branded a spy in 1994, the Isro scientist has fought hard for his honour. The recent Kerala HC order for monetary compensation to him has brought a little more cheer to the man who says he's now ready to bring his tormentors to justice and expose the conspiracy against India's ambitious cryogenic project

They began their scientific careers as the two bright stars of India's space research programme . Later, of course, APJ Abdul Kalam's and S Nambi Narayanan's lives would go on separate trajectories and their stories would read very differently.
Kalam, who was working on the solid propulsion system in the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro), went on to become a much-loved President of India. S Nambi Narayanan, who was working on the liquid propulsion system — the technology was successfully used in many satellite missions — during the same period, was branded a spy and traitor, his brilliant scientific career dented forever even as he fought against an unjust system to prove his innocence.

Narayanan, along with six others, including his Isro colleague D Sasikumar, was arrested on November 30, 1994 on charges of espionage and for selling defence secrets to two Maldivian women, Mariam Rasheeda and Fauzia Hassan.

He spent 50 days in jail after that and lived in anxiety and ignominy until the Supreme Court cleared him of the charges in 1998. But even after that he never got to work in the prestigious cryogenics field at ISRO. Last week, the Kerala high court upheld an order of the National Human Rights Commission directing the state to pay a compensation of Rs 10 lakh to the scientist for implicating him in a false case. But that doesn't really mean much to him now.

Sitting in his spacious living room, at West Fort in Thiruvananthapuram, amidst rocket models and European paintings, 71-year-old Narayanan resembles Alexander Solzhenitsyn, the tortured Russian Noble Prize-winning author who was expelled from the Soviet Union. "They framed me in a false case, perhaps to destroy India's space research program which was moving at a fast pace," he says in a soft voice, caressing his long, grey beard that shines in the morning sun.

In those dark days, the media so convincingly printed and parroted everything that one particular police inspector said that even educated Keralites began believing the concocted stories that detailed illicit links between a scientist and a couple of random Maldivian women. The controversy was soon used by a section of Congress politicians to tarnish the image of then chief minister K Karunakaran , who was already embroiled in what was called the Palmolein scam.

"I spent 50 days in jail and the state police pressured me to say that even the Isro top brass was involved," says Narayanan. The case was later taken over by the CBI which found no evidence, and said it was fabricated. This was later upheld by the Supreme Court. But it may not be closure yet for Narayanan as the identity of key players who fuelled the case still remains in the dark. Also, the question remains unanswered whether it was merely an unfortunate chain of events or if there was a larger game plan.

Narayanan, personally, believes in the role of some external agencies which wanted to halt India's cryogenic space research programme. "We can now put the jigsaw puzzle together if we can look at what was happening internationally at that time as India was cutting into a billion dollar space industry poised to take off with its cryogenic engine research," he says.

Police inspector Vijayan, who registered the first case against the two Maldivian women for overstaying, and the vernacular media which printed verbatim what the state police said, were perhaps minor characters in a larger international conspiracy.
India, by the early 1990s, had developed its own solid and liquid fuel and was able to put its satellites in orbits up to 800km. But the ultimate challenge was to develop a cryogenic engine that would propel heavy rockets with payloads of more than three tonnes to the geo-synchronous orbit, 36,000 km away from earth. These satellites would then provide accurate geo-spatial images of earth and would usher in a path-breaking revolution in telecommunication and media. Cryogenics, the science of extreme low temperatures, has been a tricky one for rocket scientists across the world.

"At stake was a 300 billon dollar space research and applications industry which was in the hands of five nations — the US, France, China, Russia, and Japan. Almost every major country wanted to put its own satellites in the orbit and they could do it only with the help of these five nations,'' says J Rajashekaran Nair, who authored Spies from Space: The ISRO Frame-up .

In 1992, India signed an agreement with Russia for transfer of technology to develop cryogenic-based fuels. The agreement was signed for Rs 235 crore, when the US and France were offering the same technology for Rs 950 crore and Rs 650 crore respectively. "Documents show that US president George Bush (Sr) wrote to Russia, raising objections against this agreement and even threatening to blacklist the country from the select-five club,'' Rajashekaran says.
Russia, under Boris Yelstin, succumbed to the pressure and denied cryogenic technology to India. To bypass this monopoly, India signed a new agreement with Russia to fabricate four cryogenic engines after floating a global tender without a formal transfer of technology.'

Isro had already reached a consensus with Kerala High Tech Industries Limited (Keltch) which would have provided the cheapest tender for fabricating engines . But this did not happen as the spy scandal surfaced in late 1994. "If you look at the people who were arrested in the case, they were all connected in some way in developing or procuring the technology . We cannot rule out foul play by an external agency," says Rajashekaran.

The plot, says Narayanan, was to tarnish the image of a premier research institution. "How could we have leaked out cryogenic missile technology when we did not even possess one? But what we lost in the process was years of hard work to revolutionise our space research , and the credibility and morale of our scientific community. And on a personal level, it ruined the lives of six families who were dragged into the case for no fault of theirs.''
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

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PratikDas wrote:Times of India: The scientist who wasn't a spy
and we are still trying to make a cryogenic engine, very unfortunate and sad :cry: .
The tragedy is that somehow we ensure that we ourselves prevent our success and growth(we don;t need external factors) and just each and every organization and its member find it necessary to indulge in politics even though it is ultimately detrimental to the success and growth of the country
Very few people find it necessary to think in terms of overall macro picture related to the growth of the country and are confined to there narrow vision and selfish motives.
Just check the history of Sergei Korolev, the Chief Russian Space scientist, instrumental in making Russia the space power that it is, he was imprisoned in 1938 for almost six years, including some months in a labour camp, but then people recognising his ability not only brought him back but made him the Chief of Russian Space agency after which Russian space program never looked back.
Why we could not do it in India.
For the simple reason that no one has the guts to fight it out and take a decision which may not sound good in the media in the near future but which could provide fantastic results in the long term.
IMHO this is unacceptable
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dhiraj wrote:
here we go, out of the 25 missions till 2017, 18 for PSLV which is great, but only 5 for GSLV and the worst part in the next 5 years only two launches for MK 3 which probably includes the suborbital flight planned next year.
Now if for any reason (i honestly wish that i am wrong) the Indian Cryo does not work in the next launch too then probably only 1 more attempt for GSLV in the next 5 years
IMHO if ISRO wants to compete with big boys then such a conservative approach will not help.
It seems, either ISRO is happy congratulating themselves by launching PSLV everytime and want to play safe or there seems to be some
understanding that they don;t want the GSLV to succeed or at least delay it as much as possible since when the first PSLV failed in 93 the next attempt was done within the next one year or they stop talking big things and just admit that they are good enough for launching only 500 kg satellites to LEO and not more. At least don;t allow people to have high expectations from ISRO.

In case of GSLV the next attempt after the last failure is around 2013(after 3 years)

GSLV MK 3 is designed for human rated with a high reliability rate of 99%, hence they don't want to take chances(may be) until they are fully tested and reliable. They will perfect the Cryo with GSLV Mk 2 and will take it to Mk 3. until the Mk 2 is perfected, they don't want to take chances with Mk.3.
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Sergei Korolev, the Chief Russian

His dad was a Russian teacher. His mother was Ukrainian.

He was sort of both. :)
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Shri Nambi Narayanan's case is truly tragic both for himself and India. As he says in the interview that appears alongside the cited article, it was another country's intelligence agency that framed him.It is another injustice done to our country by this super power that also was responsible for terrorism in the region and nuke & missile transfer under its benign and watchful eyes, while it did everything to delay if not destroy our development. Even with changed circumstances today, ISRO has to be extremely cautious with trusting this country.
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Post by prashanth »

SSridhar wrote:It is another injustice done to our country by this super power that also was responsible for terrorism in the region and nuke & missile transfer under its benign and watchful eyes, while it did everything to delay if not destroy our development. Even with changed circumstances today, ISRO has to be extremely cautious with trusting this country.
What did India ever do to that superpower that such injustice be done to our country? Or were they doing it just for fun? :(
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Nambi Narayans case was more of an inter rivalary between IB and CBI then some 3rd country playing foul.

Some top names in political circle emerged when IB invistigated the case and it included the then PM Narsimha Rao son and the PM was unhappy over it , most likely IB botched it up and then went on a wild hunt framed every one they found convenient disregarding how it will effect ISRO or key scientist from LPSC etc wild stories like spies trying to penetrate IN VLF facility was also propagated which was not true

Finally CBI stepped in and debunked many theories and framed up charges put up by IB but by that time the damage was already done with people loosing credibility , scientist loosing their face and name in society and the entire cryo effort coming to standstill.

The key organisation responsible for ISRO spy scandal was IB which tried to play a game of one upmanship and it should be blamed squarely for it.
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"and we are still trying to make a cryogenic engine, very unfortunate and sad :cry: ."

True, the failure to develop a working cryogenic engine within a stipulated time frame, is cause for disappointment and dismay. It doesn't reflect well on the officials and publicists when they make ridiculous projections- like stating in Aug 2003 that the GSLV Mark 3( leave alone Mark 2) would have its first flight in 2007!! What were they smoking...

But let's give credit to the smooth functioning of the PSLV in various versions, and with several modifications in all its stages. And perhaps most importantly, the satellites. India's satellites are as good, and better, than anything the Chinese or Japanese have come out with. This is definitely where ISRO has made qualitative progress, considerably more so than in the launcher programme.
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D Roy wrote:His dad was a Russian teacher. His mother was Ukrainian.
Thanks for the correction, it should have been USSR :)
Austin wrote:The key organisation responsible for ISRO spy scandal was IB which tried to play a game of one upmanship and it should be blamed squarely for it.
Honestly it is not important as to which organisation was responsible, what is important in our country is that people/orgn get away by making wild allegation not considering the consequence of there act. Now even if they have made such allegation which results in breaking news and banner headlines in the print media without doing there homework properly do they have the slightest of decency in coming out and saying that we are SORRY and that we were doing our job with the best of intention but finally found out that NO such charge should have been leveled.

One destroys the moral / delays one of the most critical project for the country and now NO one who would have made the allegation or the journalists who without having a formal background on the subject but having a field day during that period are to be seen. :evil:
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Post by Vivek K »

Varoon Shekhar wrote:"and we are still trying to make a cryogenic engine, very unfortunate and sad :cry: ."

But let's give credit to the smooth functioning of the PSLV in various versions, and with several modifications in all its stages. And perhaps most importantly, the satellites. India's satellites are as good, and better, than anything the Chinese or Japanese have come out with. This is definitely where ISRO has made qualitative progress, considerably more so than in the launcher programme.
PSLV is a big, good first step. But ISRO needs to come up with the GSLV. Large geostationary satellites, human missions - all need the GSLV. The Russians have been sabotaging it with their cryo engines. If ISRO cannot perfect the cryo engine, then that will be the end of the road for India's space dreams.
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Hopefully ISRO has learnt from the failures of GSLV, now time has come to demonstrate the cryo technology. Whole world will be watching the next GSLV launch. Its a huge challenge in-front of the Indian scientists. A successful launch will open up lot of opportunities for ISRO. Hope they have tested every subsystems and 100% confident before the next launch.
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Any idea regarding VENUS MISSION progress/status...????..last heard they have started a preliminary study for a mission to Venus in 2015.
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Austin wrote:WoW how do they account for 1 gram of unaccounted weight in a rocket that would weigh hundred of tons ..they probably have the largest sensitive weighing scale around.

Dust though is serious if it falls on sensitive electronics it can cause a mission failure , I recollect reading one of the earlier ASLV/SLV mission failed because some small dust particle creeped in on guidance chip of the rocket.
1gram ! As you point point out, for a rocket of several 400+ metric tons, 1 gram is miniscule. Even humidity condensing on it (or bird droppings!) can weigh 1 gram. I doubt they track change in each gram of rocket mass. http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 908227.ece
The same article has a note on vacuum/high atlitude testing. Was this facility a recent development (i.e. post GSVL D3 (April 2010))? IIRC, the D3 problem was with the cryo stage and that it ignited but some cryo pump failed. Not sure if vacuum test facilities were available then.

Found this link that sheds more light on the matter of dust-related delay:
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article/Pri ... tView=true
They found a hole in a hose and think that some dust must have gotten in. Still not clear why they think it is one gram worth of dust.
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even the founder of Antonov (ukrainian) was jailed for a few yrs with his top people but they setup a design bureau inside the jail to tap into his talents.
him and his son who also later became the chief designer were said to be intuitive geniuses in aerospace work.
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I heard that during this confinement he designed the ejection seat
Mikayon was Armenian
Gurevich was Ukrainian Jew
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Woman held for entering ISRO

BANGALORE: A mentally challenged woman has been arrested for unauthorised entry into the high security Indian Space Research Organisation premises here, police said today.
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SriKumar wrote:
Austin wrote:WoW how do they account for 1 gram of unaccounted weight in a rocket that would weigh hundred of tons ..they probably have the largest sensitive weighing scale around.

Dust though is serious if it falls on sensitive electronics it can cause a mission failure , I recollect reading one of the earlier ASLV/SLV mission failed because some small dust particle creeped in on guidance chip of the rocket.
1gram ! As you point point out, for a rocket of several 400+ metric tons, 1 gram is miniscule. Even humidity condensing on it (or bird droppings!) can weigh 1 gram. I doubt they track change in each gram of rocket mass. http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/a ... 908227.ece
The same article has a note on vacuum/high atlitude testing. Was this facility a recent development (i.e. post GSVL D3 (April 2010))? IIRC, the D3 problem was with the cryo stage and that it ignited but some cryo pump failed. Not sure if vacuum test facilities were available then.

Found this link that sheds more light on the matter of dust-related delay:
http://www.aviationweek.com/Article/Pri ... tView=true
They found a hole in a hose and think that some dust must have gotten in. Still not clear why they think it is one gram worth of dust.
Me thinks its the DDM misinterpreting a simple phrase like ".... even a gram of dust from the hole in the hose could lead to ......" and the DDM goes.... bonkers! I hope u get the import... :lol: :lol: :lol:
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The country’s first air-breathing propulsion system (ABPS) will be tested in March in Kerala. The air-breathing technology, still in its early stages of development, will engine the ambitious reusable launch vehicle (RLV) programme.

The RLV programme aims at cutting down space budgets by using the same vehicle for subsequent launches. The RLV, sources said, would bring down the launch cost by 1/10 of the existing expenses.

At present, the Indian Space Research Organisation (Isro) incurs between Rs 80 crore and Rs 110 crore for its workhorse, the Polar Satellite Launch Vehicle. Together with the cost of the satellite, each launch costs the space agency anything above Rs 500 crore. Similarly, the Geo-synchronous Launch Vehicle (GSLV) costs in the range of Rs 175 crore-230 crore.

“Apart from bringing down the cost, the reusable concept also reduces weight of the rocket. This would help us launch heavier or multiple objects and attract other nations looking for cheaper launch options to India,” sources said. At present, India charges about $20,000/kg to $24,000/kg for offering satellite launches. Isro would be able to bring this cost down considerably once the RLV technology is proven.

Being developed at the Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre (VSSC), the air-breathing system, as its name denotes, uses atmospheric air as oxidizer. In short, rockets will have to only carry the propellant on board instead of tanking fuel and oxidizer adding to the total weight.

Isro is planning to place the ABPS on a sounding rocket in Rohini series, RH 560, for the test flight. The ABPS will suck atmospheric air into its system during the flight on RH 560. Thus, by the time the RLV leaves earth’s atmosphere, its engine (or ABPS) would have filled itself with enough oxygen that would power its flight to the designated orbit. The RLV will then re-enter earth’s atmosphere and land either like a conventional aircraft or with the help of a parachute. “After an initial test flight, it will be used in RLV,” VSSC director P S Veeraraghavan told TOI.

The development of advanced ABPS is still in nascent stages in many countries including Australia, Japan and China, except the US which had carried out an in-flight experiment of supersonic combustion, said scientists at VSSC. “Our RLV would take another year before it is test flown,” said VSSC associate director and head of technology transfer group John P Zachariah.
http://idrw.org/?p=14458
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The country’s first air-breathing propulsion system (ABPS) will be tested in March in Kerala.


Here is a more sensible prediction: It will not be tested in March.
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

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sanjaykumar wrote:The country’s first air-breathing propulsion system (ABPS) will be tested in March in Kerala.
Here is a more sensible prediction: It will not be tested in March.
Anytime next year will be just fine as well. Remember earlier they just tested the sounding rocket with supersonic inlets in "passive mode" and ground tested sustainence of flame in a supersonic wind tunnel. Now this is where they will test it in flight and if they achieve a sustained burn followed by gain in accelaration, then we have crossed a unique milestone and will be on par with amerikhan. Independent manoeuvre of controls and sizing up by say a scale of 10 times will definitely put us ahead!! Yes, there will be some rona-dhona from members here itself insisting how we are not ahead.
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Embittered ISRO scientist's story on big screen.

Actor-director Ananth Mahadevan loves to tell "unforgettable human stories" through his films and his new venture will see him document the "shocking and moving" tale of ISRO scientist Nambi Narayanan, to be portrayed by Malayalam superstar Mohanlal.
Narayanan, who was in-charge of overall ISRO's cryogenic project and had introduced the liquid fuel rocket technology in India in early 1970s, was falsely charged in a 1994 espionage case.

In a judicial relief that came after an 18-year-long wait, the Kerala High Court earlier this month directed payment of Rs 10 lakh as compensation to him, upholding the 2001 NHRC decision which the state government had challenged.

"The ISRO story is both shocking and moving - a great human account as well as a sensational mirror to our nation on self-destruct. Nambi Narayan is an example of a brilliant mind reduced to shambles. This film will be truly international and global cinema," Mahadevan says about "The Witch Hunt", which will be in Hindi and Malayalam.
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Vipul wrote: a sensational mirror to our nation on self-destruct.
depressing but perfect statement and valid for most of the current problems for the country :evil: :evil:
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Finally. GSat-10 launch in another 5 hours..
Image
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dinesha wrote:Finally. GSat-10 launch in another 5 hours..
Image
ohhh....love the image of such big launchers standing up high and mighty on the launch pad :D
just wishing instead of ESA and Ariane it was written ISRO and GSLV MK-3 / UMLV

but anyway for now best of luck to ISRO for there heaviest satellite till date
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Re: Indian Space Program Discussion

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Live telecast begun: http://www.arianespace.tv/

"All is well." 12 minutes prior to launch
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