Intelligence & National Security Discussion

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shyamd
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by shyamd »

^^ they stopped 25 terror modules in 2012. But it's not enough

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The NIA is definitely needed due to the nature of crime and terror. It can sometimes take 9 days to get clearance for state police from one state to make an arrest in another. For terror cases I imagine you can lose 1 day with bureaucracy. NIA can eliminate that
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

Nia has not had any sucess so far apart from Deflecting Samjauta blasts to Hindu terror with still a lot of verifiable proof and chargesheet to be filed.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Austin »

shyamd wrote:^^ they stopped 25 terror modules in 2012. But it's not enough
Source ?

Did they managed to stop Mumbai blast of 1991 or aprehend Dawood or Tiger Menon after 2 decades , Did they stopped the umpteen blast that took place in trains in Mumbai and other place , what about the Parliament attack did they managed to stop it what about 26/11 any progress on it even after 3-4 years ? Pune blast ....Did they even manage to get even one big terrorist from Pakistan or liquidate them there after commiting so many henoius crimes here ?

All they do is gather political intelligence and keep their bosses happy , All you hear is they stopped so many modules and we dont even know if their bosses are saying the truth as Agencies are not accountable to Parliament , so its all boils down to you scratch my back and i scratch yours.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by member_23629 »

He ordered only the operations for covert action to be closed since he felt that such a gesture might facilitate his efforts to improve relations with Pakistan under the so-called Gujral Doctrine.
The idiot was smoking something powerful.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by shyamd »

Austin wrote: Source ?
Probably some home ministry report somewhere... But try google for start - I am sure PC or someone is boasting about it.
Did they managed to stop Mumbai blast of 1991 or aprehend Dawood or Tiger Menon after 2 decades , Did they stopped the umpteen blast that took place in trains in Mumbai and other place , what about the Parliament attack did they managed to stop it what about 26/11 any progress on it even after 3-4 years ? Pune blast ....Did they even manage to get even one big terrorist from Pakistan or liquidate them there after commiting so many henoius crimes here ?
Look into how they caught Mohamed Amjad - South India Huji chief. We don't liquidate at least not officially. 26/11 - they gave the input of coordinates for the Kuber - Navy says they went out and looked (supposedly) and didnt find anything. Then remember the SIM cards given by the IB agents in J&K were they ones that we were intercepting.

There will always be some that will get through but they have stopped many too - some we dont even hear about. Thats the nature of this game and is the same around the world in fact.
All they do is gather political intelligence and keep their bosses happy , All you hear is they stopped so many modules and we dont even know if their bosses are saying the truth as Agencies are not accountable to Parliament , so its all boils down to you scratch my back and i scratch yours.
The political intel thing is true (even though the funny thing is these days no one believes their estimates in elections and all that but they have the ability to do tapping and gathering tactical political intel) but there are people devoted to national security believe it or not and they have stopped attacks.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Austin »

shyamd wrote:Probably some home ministry report somewhere... But try google for start - I am sure PC or someone is boasting about it.
Good let him boast while we keep getting hit by blast and lives lost and then HM will declare Hindu Terrorist as the chief suspect or if its PC type will say Sorry.
Look into how they caught Mohamed Amjad - South India Huji chief. We don't liquidate at least not officially. 26/11 - they gave the input of coordinates for the Kuber - Navy says they went out and looked (supposedly) and didnt find anything. Then remember the SIM cards given by the IB agents in J&K were they ones that we were intercepting.
They are good at catching small fries or ground soldiers while all the top and Medium level bosses either roam around with impunity or the intel are just clueless about them , they didnt manage to catch a single Mumbai train bomb blast suspect out of the half dozen off that took place. Forget about preventing it via advanced intel.

If after Mumbai 93 blast and all the tall promises about securing maritime borders and coordinating intel etc they made then and if terrorist still managed to do 26/11 via sea route then it shows how good our intel estb are really.
,
DThere will always be some that will get through but they have stopped many too - some we dont even hear about. Thats the nature of this game and is the same around the world in fact.
The fact is you are also judged by failure as by your success , indian Intel has so many failures that its shameful to even keep a count of it.
The political intel thing is true (even though the funny thing is these days no one believes their estimates in elections and all that but they have the ability to do tapping and gathering tactical political intel) but there are people devoted to national security believe it or not and they have stopped attacks.
Yah I want to believe you how good these people are really , Wait did they manage to arrest any body in Zaveri blast attack that happened after 26/11 , most importantly they coulnt prevent it and with many precious loss of life.

IB is too busy serving their politcal masters and keeping the ruling elite in power thats been their case for past 2 deacdes that i have followed many terrorist strikes, most of them they are clue less when it happens.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ramana »

Shyamd< The MHA has no credibility on stopping terrorist attacks. Invariably just before an attack they send out conflicting information to cover their butts. Even the IN was sent on a wild goose chase for the MV Kuber. Adm Verma had complained about it also.

Sure they stooped 25 attacks! Why such round number and not 27 or 29 or 1001 Arabian fantasies?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by shyamd »

Sir the general threat issuance is when they know a plan is being operationalised but don't know where precisely. But the very ramping up of security is meant to deter or scare/ put them off from going through with the plan

The navy was given precise location and that is well documented. Now whether navy had the resources to find and the location of the ship is a different matter.

This doesn't mean they are perfect or the best and all that. Its shit and needs improvement big time. At the same time they are not ridiculous.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by RoyG »

shyamd wrote: This doesn't mean they are perfect or the best and all that. Its shit and needs improvement big time. At the same time they are not ridiculous.
What?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ramana »

In the Mumbai Terrorist attack thread the Adm Nirmal Verma very distinctly said his ships were sent on wild goos chase to coordinates where no one was there.

I would believe some one who gives his name and not someone anonomouse who might be just bullsh*ting drawing salary and pretending to be doing some thing.

After the 26/11 attack did one IB or RAW guy have remorse for not preventing the attack?
Not one. All spreading anonomouse nonsense about how they warned and no one did anything to prevent it.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Surya »

The navy was given precise location and that is well documented. Now whether navy had the resources to find and the location of the ship is a different matter.
please provide some proof of this.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by pentaiah »

shyamd wrote:Sir the general threat issuance is when they know a plan is being operationalised but don't know where precisely. But the very ramping up of security is meant to deter or scare/ put them off from going through with the plan

The navy was given precise location and that is well documented. Now whether navy had the resources to find and the location of the ship is a different matter.

This doesn't mean they are perfect or the best and all that. Its shit and needs improvement big time. At the same time they are not ridiculous.
I can't laugh nor cry but choke in other emotions which words can't express "precisely"

The word precisely is precisely the problem
"Don't know where precisely "

"The navy was given precise location"

"This doesn't mean they are perfect"
What is meant precisely only intelligence can tell
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Austin »

Agencies do issue Intel warning but they are far to generic in nature generally I have seen in Mumbai they put up Naka Bandi at many places if they receive intel warning of terror threat or high alert but thats about it , its not difficult to evade such naka bandi for any trained terrorist but precise intelligence like terrorist are hold up in xyz house and they need to be caught are not available. In cases where they were available it was found that police bungled up Lapse by Mumbai Police Enables Yaseen Bhatkal to Flee

Navys are sent on wild goose chase and there were couple of incident post 26/11 where based on intel the Western fleet went on alert chasing ghost ships and in the end they didnt yeald any result , Either agencies have no intel or they are misled by their sources or mislead by much smarter ISI using comint to see how our forces react in such situation so that they can plan their next mission by studying loop holes.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by shyamd »

ramana wrote:In the Mumbai Terrorist attack thread the Adm Nirmal Verma very distinctly said his ships were sent on wild goos chase to coordinates where no one was there.

I would believe some one who gives his name and not someone anonomouse who might be just bullsh*ting drawing salary and pretending to be doing some thing.

After the 26/11 attack did one IB or RAW guy have remorse for not preventing the attack?
Not one. All spreading anonomouse nonsense about how they warned and no one did anything to prevent it.
It's an accepted fact even by the navy that the coordinates were given (Navy chief confirmed it himself). The navy say they only got long-lat but no direction that it's moving in or what ship, speed etc. input was provided on Nov 19th and the ship was apparently roughly in the same area for 72hours (still in pak waters though).

Securing the borders is incredibly difficult - you can see in the US how drugs and people (illegal immigrants) get through via sea route and land borders. The way I see it if someone wants to do something in any country they probably can do it.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by shyamd »

Austin wrote:Agencies do issue Intel warning but they are far to generic in nature generally I have seen in Mumbai they put up Naka Bandi at many places if they receive intel warning of terror threat or high alert but thats about it , its not difficult to evade such naka bandi for any trained terrorist but precise intelligence like terrorist are hold up in xyz house and they need to be caught are not available. In cases where they were available it was found that police bungled up Lapse by Mumbai Police Enables Yaseen Bhatkal to Flee
Its just to scare them off (make the terrorists think that they know about the plan and could get caugh) or the likelyhood is you might bump into a police road block and get caught. The key is to catch the bomb makers. THey are the key to all of this. The actual people who drop the bag with the bomb are just people looking to earn a quick buck.
Navys are sent on wild goose chase and there were couple of incident post 26/11 where based on intel the Western fleet went on alert chasing ghost ships and in the end they didnt yeald any result , Either agencies have no intel or they are misled by their sources or mislead by much smarter ISI using comint to see how our forces react in such situation so that they can plan their next mission by studying loop holes.
Happens all the time in every country which has a determined enemy.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by shyamd »

Austin wrote: They are good at catching small fries or ground soldiers while all the top and Medium level bosses either roam around with impunity or the intel are just clueless about them , they didnt manage to catch a single Mumbai train bomb blast suspect out of the half dozen off that took place. Forget about preventing it via advanced intel.
All trying to claim they have solved the case and get credit, looking for next big posting hence crappy rushed investigations. But they have caught a fair few in the last few year. Problem is IB aren't focusing enough on HUMINT - this is not done by having more intel operatives doing anti terror - but ability to convince a member of a terror group to serve your interest.
If after Mumbai 93 blast and all the tall promises about securing maritime borders and coordinating intel etc they made then and if terrorist still managed to do 26/11 via sea route then it shows how good our intel estb are really.
They can never secure the coastline. No country can do this effectively unless they have a small coastline. Ours is huge. Even the current plans post 26/11 say that they won't be able to have a secure coastline until 2018 (excl delays of course!)
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The fact is you are also judged by failure as by your success , indian Intel has so many failures that its shameful to even keep a count of it.
Thats the reality of this game. Half of their successes aren't even reported. But everyone remembers your failures - especially these as its costing human lives.

There is a lot of luck involved in this game too.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Austin »

shyamd wrote:Problem is IB aren't focusing enough on HUMINT - this is not done by having more intel operatives doing anti terror - but ability to convince a member of a terror group to serve your interest.
They are probably focussing enough HUMINT on Political Intel that would give immediate rewards over long painstaking effort to trace and prevent terror strikes , They can always claim like they always do that they had alerted the state and get away with it as they dont have any accoutibility , none from Intel community was punished for their massive intel failure on 26/11 beyond the drama of MKN putting in his papers and government rejecting it. None in agency has been held accountable for the many spectacular terror strikes in other places in India , they cant even neutralise high profile criminal terrorist like Dawood living in plush locality for past 2 decades , how do you expect they would eliminate the low profile Jihadist.

If this is the state of IB against terror module , its any wonder how they would be dealing with professional intelligence service from hostile countries like China/Pakistan or even friendlier ones like US or Russia aggressively gathering intel in our country.
They can never secure the coastline. No country can do this effectively unless they have a small coastline. Ours is huge. Even the current plans post 26/11 say that they won't be able to have a secure coastline until 2018 (excl delays of course!)
If no country can ever secure their coastline then how would some magic figure like 2018 or 2020 can solve the problem.

You need a combination of CG/IN asset along with precise and timely intel to stop such attacks specially when its co-ordinated by ISI , we have enough assest in the former its only with precise and advanced intel that we sorely lack and its been the case since 2 decades ,only the nature and sophistication on Mumbai attack has changed the route has always been the same.

Thats the reality of this game. Half of their successes aren't even reported. But everyone remembers your failures - especially these as its costing human lives.
If you are attacked once or twice in your economic or country capital then you can call it bad luck or intel failures but if you are attacked more then a dozen time and counting with massive loss to life and property then its called sustained catastrophic intelligence failure and unprofessionalism of highest order ....unfortunately that can sum up our intel service , the only reason we dont see another blast happening is because the other side decided not to do it or do it at place and time of their choosing,
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by shyamd »

Austin wrote: They are probably focussing enough HUMINT on Political Intel that would give immediate rewards over long painstaking effort to trace and prevent terror strikes , They can always claim like they always do that they had alerted the state and get away with it as they dont have any accoutibility , none from Intel community was punished for their massive intel failure on 26/11 beyond the drama of MKN putting in his papers and government rejecting it. None in agency has been held accountable for the many spectacular terror strikes in other places in India , they cant even neutralise high profile criminal terrorist like Dawood living in plush locality for past 2 decades , how do you expect they would eliminate the low profile Jihadist.
We don't "neutralise". And how will they neutralise if the politicians themselves are in bed with Dawood. Don't know if heads rolled but they had some program called 100 day reorganisation or something like that after 26/11. RAW or IB chief was about to retire the following month anyway. The other one was a new guy.

The issue is not resources - although its easy to just recruit more - which is what PC is doing - when he opened up 10k new posts in IB. This won't resolve the issue. Think of a state like Israel with all their tech, huge security machinery, border tech etc - Hezb and Hamas (struck outside their mil HQ) both proved they can strike using terror at soft targets using cells.
If this is the state of IB against terror module , its any wonder how they would be dealing with professional intelligence service from hostile countries like China/Pakistan or even friendlier ones like US or Russia aggressively gathering intel in our country.
We don't care and we usually know who is doing what. They can't change or make us buy anything - biggest lesson for the US was MRCA/98 with all the resources they pushed towards it.
If no country can ever secure their coastline then how would some magic figure like 2018 or 2020 can solve the problem.
Exactly! Its just some BS to feed to the public. There is no way in hell they can secure it - same for any country.
You need a combination of CG/IN asset along with precise and timely intel to stop such attacks specially when its co-ordinated by ISI , we have enough assest in the former its only with precise and advanced intel that we sorely lack and its been the case since 2 decades ,only the nature and sophistication on Mumbai attack has changed the route has always been the same.
Its easy to say precise and timely. Practically its very difficult unless you have ISI people on your payroll willy nilly or penetrated LeT inner circle. The camps were always easy to penetrate but getting operational plans is the most difficult part. They use compartmentalisation and stuff prevent leaks - they take a lot of precautions too.

Look at Afg - ISI people are clearly involved in supporting, doing attacks against the US troops. We can also point and say why hasn't NDS, CIA, US Mili intel been able to prevent attacks in Kabul etc. Its not easy to do, if it was like waving a wand it would have been done a long time ago. I know its easy to say oh look they had a failure there as well but it is genuinely a very difficult task.

Sea route is always the easiest in any country - they don't check every container - so maybe out of 10 containers that people smuggle stuff in - perhaps 2 at the most will get caught. Same with drugs - before the recession - the US/UK (and a few others) contributed military intel assets like surveillance aircraft etc to this anti-drugs program called Hitron - they reckon they could stop about 50% of all drug exports using sea route. This program took a hit with the cuts - pre recession price of cocaine in the UK was about £75 for 10g, street price today is £25 for a gram due to supply growth as supposed to lack of demand.
If you are attacked once or twice in your economic or country capital then you can call it bad luck or intel failures but if you are attacked more then a dozen time and counting with massive loss to life and property then its called sustained catastrophic intelligence failure and unprofessionalism of highest order ....unfortunately that can sum up our intel service , the only reason we dont see another blast happening is because the other side decided not to do it or do it at place and time of their choosing,
Its all easy to say - in practice its a lot more difficult to develop sources. In practice this is what usually happens - RAW will just pay some ISI guy - ISI tells them where the attack will be but not time (which is usually always last min and goes through the chain I presume) - RAW will exfiltrate him out to a safer envt. Will that change anything? It will put off the attack for a while maybe. Will it stop it from happening completely? Maybe not.

There are many cells inside india - even women who are being trained for operations (Sikh separatists too).
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Surya »

Think of a state like Israel with all their tech, huge security machinery, border tech etc - Hezb and Hamas (struck outside their mil HQ) both proved they can strike using terror at soft targets using cells

Huh?? when??

are you talking about the Lebanon war attack in 82??
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by PratikDas »

Shouldn't we be comparing the performance of Indian intelligence in India with the performance of US intelligence within the US? Has there been another 9/11 or anything remotely similar? If the US failed in preventing bombings in Afghanistan, that is surely setting the bar very high and incomparable with the strengths or failures of Indian intelligence within India.

The US has a very large coast and yet we don't even see a dumb iron bomb going off anywhere, forget the overhyped rogue nuclear weapons. So why is the Indian coast so indefensible?
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Post by Surya »

Shouldn't we be comparing the performance of Indian intelligence in India with the performance of US intelligence within the US?
stop introducing logic here :mrgreen:
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by shyamd »

PratikDas wrote:Shouldn't we be comparing the performance of Indian intelligence in India with the performance of US intelligence within the US? Has there been another 9/11 or anything remotely similar? If the US failed in preventing bombings in Afghanistan, that is surely setting the bar very high and incomparable with the strengths or failures of Indian intelligence within India.
That tells you that there is no one (at least professional) that wants to do something in these countries. The only ones that have been caught in the west - are usually the dumb ones (searching on the internet how to do something or boasting on some forums or phone). Professionals backed or trained by a professional agency (which is the threats we face) is unlikely to make those sort of slip ups. I can tell you for the UK - they are really quite clueless and are struggling to deal with it. Are you telling me its difficult to pull something off like 2611 in the US with the availability of weapons both legal and illegal? Walk around London and see how many illegal immigrants there are (some even kids from India working in restaurants who were smuggled in by people smuggling networks)

Why not compare the situation in Afghanistan? The US knows who is perpetrating the large attacks, they know who is backing them or providing logistical support, expertise. Have they been able to prevent major attacks? I am talking about supposedly secure locations in Kabul.
The US has a very large coast and yet we don't even see a dumb iron bomb going off anywhere, forget the overhyped rogue nuclear weapons. So why is the Indian coast so indefensible?
Its not hard to replace one of the drug boats with explosives. Terrorists smuggled instead of illegal immigrants. These are nightmare scenarios but are well in the realms of possibility. Port security is a huge gaping hole too. There are always gonna be loopholes if someone serious enough wants to do something.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by PratikDas »

shyamd ji, the only possible failures of US intelligence on home turf that come to mind are the school mass shootings. I do not know if and how much of their intentions the perpetrators communicated electronically, i.e. over a medium that ought to be monitored, for us to measure the performance of the FBI.

Another [US] national failure would have to be cybersecurity itself, with the Chinese apparently helping themselves to a smorgasbord of intellectual property and secrets. Did the Chinese actually make inroads to national security information and not just corporate intellectual property? I wouldn't know. Was there any loss of life as a result? Not any yet that I can think of.

Nevertheless, you ask if it is difficult to pull off something like 26/11 in the US with arms freely available in the legal and black market. No, of course not if we look at the availability of weapons alone, but nothing of the sort has happened either has it? Is there really such a dearth of motivated and well-trained anti-US terrorists for over a decade, despite so many governments being toppled via various "arab springs"? Not a single Afghan Talibani disgruntled at his cousin's home being Hellfired off the map? Not a single relative of a Guantanamo inmate or a victim of Extraordinary Rendition that's up to the task? Or are all of these disgruntled militants just so stupid that they communicate everything electronically and get caught, because communication is actually essential?

Or is the real problem that India is way, way behind in keeping up with decryption methods for the plethora of electronic communication techniques? I believe this is actually the case. Please correct me if I'm mistaken but I believe the only reason we have the satellite phone recordings from 26/11 is not because of Chanakyan Indian intelligence but because Americans were killed and the US pressured Thuraya, the U.A.E based satellite phone company, for the call logs.

Despite all the target information provided by David Headley, complete with GPS waypoints, and despite the meticulous planning by the terrorist handlers, they still needed to communicate over satphone, didn't they?

What does Chanakyan Indian government do? Block the import of Thuraya phones, as if that will make the terrorists turn up at the customs checkpoint to handover their devices.

Unless the Thuraya and Iridium satphones' downlinks are intentionally jammed in India till the companies cooperate with full support for Lawful Interception, and we would've probably heard about it if this were happening, these phones will continue to be operable in the country and we will continue to remain blind to the communications. Could you please tell me what has been done to block their use?
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

IB arrests Indian Home Ministry Official spying for Pakistan

New Delhi: Intelligence Bureau has arrested an Official of Indian Home Ministry for allegedly spying for Pakistan. The Officer named Chadrasekhar, posted in the Home Ministry was a confidante of Samir Khan, a noted ISI agent.

He passed on various information related to operations and practice of Indian Armed Forces to the Inter Service Intelligence, (ISI) of Pakistan.

He has been held responsible for the leak of the operation Iron Fist recently undertaken by Indian Air Force in Pokharan, Rajasthan.


According to Sources, he also passed the list of all Pakistani Prisoners serving terms in Indian Jails.
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Post by chaanakya »

Just a few days before

India arrests man for 'spying for Pakistan'
JAIPUR: An Indian man has been arrested on charges of spying for Islamabad on the recently concluded Indian war games, police said on Monday.

The 35-year-old man is accused of passing on details of the exercises held by the Indian Air Force on Friday in the western desert state of Rajasthan near the Indian border with Pakistan, senior state police officer DS Dinkar told AFP.

Dinkar identified the man as an Indian national called Sumaar Khan and said he was allegedly spying for Pakistan’s Inter-Services Intelligence, “passing information related to Indian defence installations and military activities”.

Police alleged the man used mobile phones and Internet to transmit information but did not say when he was arrested.

NDTV reported that Khan was arrested from his home in Pokhran on Sunday morning, following interception of his calls to Pakistan.

The report further stated that he frequently traveled to Pakistan and is alleged to have passed on documents pertaining to the Indian defence structure.
Other links for same story.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-asia-india-21578927

http://www.ibtimes.com/india-arrests-ma ... se-1102886

http://ibnlive.in.com/news/pokhran-spyi ... 495-3.html
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

NSG horrified as own man talks to Pakistan spy about Hyderabad blasts

PTI : New Delhi, Mon Mar 04 2013, 20:37 hrs

Counter-terror force NSG has ordered an inquiry against one of its officers for allegedly talking unauthorisedly to Pakistani intelligence officials regarding developments about the recent blasts in Hyderabad.

Sources said the officer is serving in the counter-terror unit of the 'Black Cats' force and is a Major rank officer on deputation from the Army.


National Security Guard chief Arvind Ranjan said the force headquarters has "ordered an inquiry" into the incident that happened a few days back.

Ranjan, however, said there was nothing alarming in the incident and nothing vital has been leaked during the brief talk between the NSG officer and the Pakistani, who is suspected to be an ISI agent.

A post-blasts analysis team of the NSG had flown to the Andhra Pradesh capital after the twin bombings rocked the city on February 21.

NSG sources said the officer reportedly talked about the movement of the NSG teams to the blasts venue and did not share any important clue about the trigger mechanism of the explosives that was used in the blasts in Hyderabad's Dilsukhnagar that had left 16 people dead.


It is suspected that the conversation took place over phone and security agencies running counter-intelligence detected the conversation which was later reported to the NSG headquarters here, they said.

Sources said such incidents keep happening in the intelligence and security domain and regular advisories are sent to officials to not talk randomly to un-verified people over phone, in-person, Internet or any other mode of communication.


The NSG, officials said, had also issued advisories in this regard early last month.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by RoyG »

CI netted two. Could be connected.
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ramana »

So the good outcome of the blasts is it revealed ISI twits in Indian Military and Govt!!!
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by pentaiah »

Our problems are own swadeshi complete indigenous manufacture only

No wonders the terrorist leader from TSP has correctly called indian intelligence and security out fit Morons. Need no more proof

Wonder our multi point essay writer of former kacha deputy director will write this as tier two diplomacy or CBM measure....

What to do we are like this only

Ramana ji recall that in 1999 we discussed based on LKg interview with press that the border areas of Telengana/ Maharashtra border to be the local cells of ISI/ SIMI

The districts of Nizambad, Karimnagar, Aurangabad Nanded were identified by you/BRF
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

x-posted
Purulia arms case: Denmark asks India to give fresh proposal for Davy extradition
New Delhi: Talks between India and Denmark on expediting the extradition of prime accused in Purulia arms drop case Kim Davy to face trial here failed to make any headway on Thursday as the European country asked for a fresh proposal which will be examined by their justice department. "The talks were held in a cordial manner and there was a discussion on extradition of Kim Davy," Union Home Secretary RK Singh told reporters.

However, sources in the delegation said the Indian side expressed their disappointment over sending a fresh proposal and conveyed that this would delay in bringing the accused to justice. It was conveyed that it took nine years for Denmark to decide on the earlier extradition request and the fresh proposal appeared to be a delaying tactics yet again.

The visiting Danish delegation headed by Deputy Permanent Secretary in the Justice Ministry Jens Christian Bulow assured India that any fresh proposal might be expeditiously processed. CBI reiterated its earlier offer asking them to handover Davy to India so that he could stand a trial here and, if sentenced, can serve the prison term in Denmark, the sources said.


The Home Secretary also said there was a provision in the law whereby prisoners can be transferred to their country for serving the prison term.
The Indian delegation comprising officials from Home, Law and External Affairs Ministries and CBI was led by Special Secretary (Internal Secretary) in the Home Ministry S Jayaraman.

India has also made an option to try Davy in a special court within the Indian Embassy in Copenhagen.
After a Denmark court had turned down the extradition plea and the authorities in Copenhagen refused to go in for appeal, India, in a bid to put pressure, scaled down its diplomatic relations with that country last year.

The case relates to an incident on the night of December 17, 1995, when an AN-26 aircraft dropped arms and ammunition in West Bengal's Purulia district. The consignment had hundreds of AK-47 rifles, pistols, anti-tank grenades, rocket launchers and thousands of rounds of ammunition.

Five Latvians and British national Peter Bleach were arrested in connection with the incident. However, Davy, a Danish citizen, and the prime accused in the case, had managed to escape. Since then, the Indian government has been pressing for his extradition to India with the Danish government.

The extradition order was passed by Danish government on April 9, 2010. However, Davy had approached a local court challenging the order of the Danish government. The court set aside the order.

Thereafter, an appeal of Danish government was also set aside by the High Court in Denmark on the ground that if Davy is extradited to India for prosecution, there would be a real risk that he would be subjected to treatment in violation of article 3 of the European Human Rights Convention.


The arrested Latvian crew members were released from a prison in Kolkata in 2000 after requests from Russian authorities while Bleach was given a presidential pardon in 2004 following requests by British government.
sum
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

Interesting stuff:
When India drew Top Secret ‘red line’ in Mauritius
When President Pranab Mukherjee lands in Mauritius on Monday, he will be buttressing a relationship with an Indian Ocean nation that is so central to India’s security interests that it went to the extent of planning military intervention to ensure an Indian-origin Prime Minister remained in power there.

The Top Secret ‘Operation Lal Dora’ — which remains highly classified to this day — was conceived in 1983 with Prime Minister Indira Gandhi’s approval and called for the amphibious landing of troops from the 54th Division to help the Mauritian Prime Minister Anerood Jugnauth fight off a challenge from his radical rival Paul Berenger which New Delhi feared might take the form of an attempted coup.
Instead, she chose to task the Research and Intelligence Wing’s then chief, Nowsher F. Suntook, with supervising a largely intelligence-led operation to reunite the Indian community whose fracturing along ideological and communal lines had allowed Mr. Berenger to mount a political challenge.

“The matter remains highly classified to this day,” a retired intelligence official familiar with the operation told The Hindu on condition of anonymity. “But it was a huge success. As a result, Jugnauth stayed on as PM for more than ten years. We produced this outcome by political means.”

A measure of this ‘huge success’ was Mr. Jugnauth’s subsequent decision to request India Gandhi for an Indian as his national security adviser. “He wanted an intelligence officer but we sent an army man, General J.N. Tamini, who remained there for many years,” the retired officer recalled.
Suntook died in 2006 but one intelligence officer who was around at that time called the operation a ``very fine piece’’ of intelligence and operational work by the RAW chief who was pitchforked into Mauritius by Mrs Gandhi on the day he was to retire.

Operation Lal Dora when seen in conjunction with the ease of India’s naval interventions in Seychelles and Maldives, both in 1987, points to the vulnerability of small island nations to military intervention by larger countries. But it also shows the ease with which the Indian Government agreed to conduct military operations when a political solution – as it eventually happened – was more feasible.

Soon after that operation, Mauritius became a listening post for the Indian Navy which buttressed a 1974 agreement of sending Indian defence officers on deputation to its coast guard and helicopter squadron. Today 35 to 40 Mauritian police officials train every year at Indian defence training academies.
ramana
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by ramana »

Is this being revealed to claim that the intel agencies are not just kachha but quite pukka?

What was the need for this convoluted article? If mrs G did something in 1983 what is th point of crowing about it in 2013? Its even more than 30 years after the event!
VinodTK
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by VinodTK »

India, China military build-up fuelling mutual suspicion: US
India and China are fuelling mutual suspicion by their ongoing military build-up, even though neither of them currently appear to seek to overturn the strategic balance on their borders, US spy chief said today.

"Neither India nor China currently seeks to overturn the strategic balance on the border or commit provocations that would destabilise the relationship. However, India and China are each increasing their military abilities to respond to a border crisis," James R Clapper, Director of National Intelligence, said during a US Congressional hearing on global threats.

Testifying before the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence, Clapper said both India and China consider these moves to be defencive, but they are probably fuelling mutual suspicion and raising the stakes in a potential crisis.

"As a result, periodic, low level intrusions between forces along the border could escalate if either side saw political benefit in more forcefully and publicly asserting its territorial claims or responding more decisively to perceived aggression," he said.

"However, existing mechanisms, as well as a shared desire for stability by political and military leaders from both sides, will likely act as an effective break against escalation," Clapper said.

In his testimony, Clapper expressed strong concern over the Chinese military build-up, which he said is raising the anxiety and security concerns among its neighbours.

"China's military investments favour capabilities designed to strengthen its nuclear deterrent and strategic strike, counter foreign military intervention in a regional crisis, and provide limited, albeit growing, capacity for power projection," he said. :
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Prem Kumar
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Prem Kumar »

Extremely good read about a planned hush-hush Mauritius operation in 1983. My respect for Indira Gandhi went up a few notches!

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/w ... epage=true
Austin
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by Austin »

sum
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by sum »

^^ Errr, is it allowed to publicly mention complete addresses of RAW safehouses without invoking OSA?
shyamd
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Re: Intelligence & National Security Discussion

Post by shyamd »

So are those properties under the companies name or Verma's name? Sounds like that these properties are still used for operational purposes. There are many such properties all over India that are used.
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