Intelligence & National Security Discussion

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Rudranathh
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Post by Rudranathh »

Everyone talks about the so called failure of the intel agencies and then makes an statement that the present intel agencies are a failure.

Why not talk about what they have achieved?

Yesterday a terrorist Yazha khan working at GE systems was arrested.
Yahya (32), an electrical engineer, was arrested by a team probing terror cases in the state. A native of a village near Kozhikode, he came to Bangalore eight years ago after completing his bachelor’s degree in engineering. He stayed in Gurappanapalya. An active member of SIMI, Yahya had contacts with terror suspects Mohammed Asif, Asadullah Abubaker and their associates.
Now how did they manage to zero in on his location and nab this terrorist if they did not have any hard intel?

And another thing TimesNow is mentioning that today an LeT module was busted which wanted to target sonia during her rally in jammu.

Now how did they bust this terror module if they did not have intel?

I can go on and on about the number of terror attacks that have been foiled by the intel agencies( both internal & external ) be it the SIMI terror cell in KIMS or the HuJi cells in other parts of country.

Even when it comes to china, R&AW made recommendations that chinese companies which act as fronts for their military should be kept out of strategic sectors. like for example Huawei which is a known front of the CMC and is into telecom sector.Now was this recommendation implemented? Who is responsible for it? The political master or the intel agency?

A new intel agency cant be built up in an single day. It needs patience and hard work and a good political master who can wield it effectively.

We have to work with what we have and make it more efective rather take an wasteful approach of inventing new orgs which will find it impossible to come to terms with the vast array of threats facing the country that they will need to address in an short period of time.
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Post by Rudranathh »

Huge intel failure.
NCB sleuths seize 19 kg of charas
Thursday, Feb 21 2008 IST

The officials of city-based Narcotics Control Bureau (NCB) today seized 19 kg of 'charas' (hashish) worth Rs 4 crore in the international market, from a car at village Ratanpur on the Gujarat border and arrested one person in this connection.

NCB sources said acting on a tip-off that a huge consignment of charas is expected to be smuggled to Gujarat from Kashmir via Rajasthan for local sale, they started searching all the incoming vehicles at Ratanpur, the entry point. The consignment was cleverly concealed in the side panel of the car, which would not have been easily traced but for after a thorough rummaging of the vehicle. The arrested accused, identified as Abdul Majid Dar from Kashmir, has confessed the smuggling of contraband.

Both the contraband and the car have been seized and a case against the arrested person has been registered under various sections of NDPS act, 1985, sources added.
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Post by sum »

Quote:
Yahya (32), an electrical engineer, was arrested by a team probing terror cases in the state. A native of a village near Kozhikode, he came to Bangalore eight years ago after completing his bachelor’s degree in engineering. He stayed in Gurappanapalya. An active member of SIMI, Yahya had contacts with terror suspects Mohammed Asif, Asadullah Abubaker and their associates.


Now how did they manage to zero in on his location and nab this terrorist if they did not have any hard intel?
This engineer was caught based on the truth serum given to LeT scum arrested in Hubli......
The two terrorists arrested was also by chance. Two beat constables chanced upon them due to their rash driving. The cops locked them in a room and went on their usual beat(by which time valuable intel was lost as the terrorists destroyed the SIM, mobile etc with them). When they were brought to court on vehicle theft, the judge observed that they looked very suspicious and asked the police to go deeper into their background and so,all this busting of LeT modules in Karnataka began. (so the judge deserves the credit)
Btw, 4 other accomplices of the engineer escaped in the raid.
I certainly do not undermine our agencies and have utmost respect for them but the particular case cannot be termed a success as it was never a intelligence operation involving the agencies….
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Post by Rudranathh »

sum wrote:This engineer was caught based on the truth serum given to LeT scum arrested in Hubli......
Birather the truth serum gives the name of the person invloved. It is not a GPS receiver that it can pin point the location were the suspect is hiding. Bangalore or Bengaluru has more than a lakh migrant population daily which enters the city. And add to it the millions more who stay there permanently. Now how would you track a person and catch hold of him in such an large population if you dont have ground level intel.
sum wrote:The two terrorists arrested was also by chance. Two beat constables chanced upon them due to their rash driving.
Not for rash driving but for stealing vehicles which they tried to rig with bombs and explode in places frequented by foreigners in goa like bali bomb blasts.
sum wrote:I certainly do not undermine our agencies and have utmost respect for them but the particular case cannot be termed a success as it was never a intelligence operation involving the agencies….
Birather you have no idea of the number of person who are officialy absconding but are under CoD arrest. Just tune into local channels they have an more indepth coverage.
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Post by Raj Malhotra »

ramana wrote:I want the kaccha folks to do analysis and all that. I want the police ethos of the RAW to change. I think thats a big handicap as it restricts their prespective. For intelligence one has to skate close to whats allowable legally. In police setup, by nature of their training, they conform to the law. On other hand policeis the right way to catch outsiders like spies. Thats classic counter-intelligence work.

Austin have you ever wondered why India's agencies are police origin while UK are military origin even for counter-intelligence?
I am asking I dont have answers.

Indian Police has never operated anywhere near bounds of law.
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Post by sum »

Birather the truth serum gives the name of the person invloved. It is not a GPS receiver that it can pin point the location were the suspect is hiding. Bangalore or Bengaluru has more than a lakh migrant population daily which enters the city. And add to it the millions more who stay there permanently. Now how would you track a person and catch hold of him in such an large population if you dont have ground level intel.
Still feel that this case cannot be credited to the agencies since they entered the scene only after the groundwork was done by local police. Also,the engineer was always on the watchlist since SIMI days(so good job by the city police esp in keeping track of him in a ghetto like Tilaknagar)
also, am hoping that the 4 absconding scum are actually with the police as you state.....
Btw,any news on the ISI spy on the run,Desai?? How can he just vanish into thin air?
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Post by Rudranathh »

sum wrote:
Birather the truth serum gives the name of the person invloved. It is not a GPS receiver that it can pin point the location were the suspect is hiding. Bangalore or Bengaluru has more than a lakh migrant population daily which enters the city. And add to it the millions more who stay there permanently. Now how would you track a person and catch hold of him in such an large population if you dont have ground level intel.
Still feel that this case cannot be credited to the agencies since they entered the scene only after the groundwork was done by local police.
Birather CoD is not an seperate org. It is part of the police and local officals are deputed to it on case to case basis if the need arises. Here the same methodlogy has been followed and the arrested terrorists are revealing their secrets. The arms and explosives cache were recovered from the forest near hubli even before these narco tests were conducted.
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Post by prashanth »

Rudranath,
Even when it comes to china, R&AW made recommendations that chinese companies which act as fronts for their military should be kept out of strategic sectors. like for example Huawei which is a known front of the CMC and is into telecom sector.Now was this recommendation implemented? Who is responsible for it? The political master or the intel agency?
I think the GOI has taken note of this. I suppose you are referring to the BSNL broadband modems. Yes, Huwei was contracted to supply them earlier. But now there are other companies manufacturing the same. BEL and UTstarcom, both Indian. Mine is from UTstarcom. :)
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Post by Rampy »

Rudranathh wrote:Huge intel failure.
NCB sleuths seize 19 kg of charas
Thursday, Feb 21 2008 IST

The officials of city-based Narcotics Control Bureau (NCB) today seized 19 kg of 'charas' (hashish) worth Rs 4 crore in the international market, from a car at village Ratanpur on the Gujarat border and arrested one person in this connection.
Rudra


No one is saying that our intel is bad, what we are saying is they are not coordinated, the example above that u gave is not dur to RAW or IB working its because of local intel which has nothing to do with IB or RAW
Take an example from Kashmir, have u been to Katra ( sherowali), lakhs of people come there but no incident why? not because of RAW or IB working overtime its because of Para and Military local Intel networks.
Thing is we have a very good local intel but what we lack is an umbrella org that can collect and decipher which IMHO RAW or IB is not able to do
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Post by sum »

No one is saying that our intel is bad, what we are saying is they are not coordinated, the example above that u gave is not dur to RAW or IB working its because of local intel which has nothing to do with IB or RAW
Exactly my thoughts,....
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Post by Austin »

ramana wrote:Austin have you ever wondered why India's agencies are police origin while UK are military origin even for counter-intelligence?
I am asking I dont have answers.
Ramana , I don't have an answer to this , but my thinking is it has to do with IB heritage and Indian Political Estb wouldn't like Military to run Intelligence Organisation whose character doesn't exactly fit onlee Military types.
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Post by jamwal »

prashanth wrote:Rudranath,
Even when it comes to china, R&AW made recommendations that chinese companies which act as fronts for their military should be kept out of strategic sectors. like for example Huawei which is a known front of the CMC and is into telecom sector.Now was this recommendation implemented? Who is responsible for it? The political master or the intel agency?
I think the GOI has taken note of this. I suppose you are referring to the BSNL broadband modems. Yes, Huwei was contracted to supply them earlier. But now there are other companies manufacturing the same. BEL and UTstarcom, both Indian. Mine is from UTstarcom. :)

Its not just modems. Theres lots of other stuff
For example DSLAM (layer 3 ), Switches (layer 2) and BNG (layer 1)
(I could go into details, but its not really necessary now)

Earlier DSLAMs and Switches in BSNL's broadband project were all Huwaei
Modems are only a small relatively less important part in any ISPs infrastructure.
In current broadband expansion program, its ZTE. Another Chinese company. Not only broadband, even CDMA, WLL and in some cases GSM euipment is of ZTE.
Any idea about ZTE links with Chinese military?
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Post by prashanth »

Jamwal,
thanks.
Any idea about ZTE links with Chinese military?
Please explain.
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Post by jamwal »

I was wondering if ZTE had any links with Chinese military like Huwaei.
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Post by derkonig »

more importantly, has our decorated constable (awarded the "august order of thuglak") lost his sleep yet?
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Post by JCage »

What is ZTE?
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Post by Tilak »

JCage wrote:What is ZTE?
Zhong Xing Telecom Equipment.
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Post by Gerard »

Secrets Choked
Indo-US intelligence sharing is a misnomer. It's a one-way street.
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Post by John Snow »

Gerard wrote:Secrets Choked
Indo-US intelligence sharing is a misnomer. It's a one-way street.

Only idiots like Narayan should be surrised, any fool can guess the out come any sharing with uncle, even their cousins accross the pond and angosaxons dont get the full quota. With Indian intelligence leaking a sieve would they share?

And about TSP what kind of idiotic babus in Nayi delli were expecting inputs from uncle. :roll:

nd then again these idiots in helm want to talk about strategic relationship with uncle and uncle making India a super power, how do these folks come up to the positions they are in....
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Post by sum »

Over the years, director-level officers from RAW have been trained in the US. America, say sources, was keen to expand the ambit of training programmes, provided RAW adopted a broader canvas to recruit intelligence officials on merit and aptitude. However, India is not ready to change its traditional recruitment policy of selecting candidates through the Union Public Service Commission route.
:-?
So, RAW senior brass do not get training in Unkil land because they are not upto Unkil's mark??
So,they train those only who match upto "recruiting standards" of CIA??
The sheer brazeness of Unkil to tell India to get more competent officials into RAW(i assume thats the message when they ask RAW to recruit agents on merit) is amazing!!!!!
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Post by Austin »

Question to gurus

Over the years we have seen efforts by CIA to penetrate Indian Intelligence Setup , some have been successfully detected.

But we have not seen over the years where our CI community has ever caught Russian (SVR) Intel , trying to penetrate our Intel setup.

Dont the Russian Intel community try to penetrate our setup or being a friendly nation they don't do that , which is hard to believe as well .
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Post by Kati »

It's a band of brothers, where every one pretty much follows the unwritten rule - one doesn't run away with other's wife. Russian, Indian, French, German, etc. intel agencies pretty much follow this rule, and try best to avoid any misunderstanding by not poaching into each other's territory. Exception is CIA. It would accept the hospitality of it's host, and then runs away with host's wife, just beacuse (it thinks) it has more resources.
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Post by derkonig »

didn't the mitrokhin archives pretty much reveal how the KGB had infiltrated into the whole of GoI..
FSB/SVR are just successors of the KGB, so why wud they be any different..
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Post by sum »

It's a band of brothers, where every one pretty much follows the unwritten rule - one doesn't run away with other's wife. Russian, Indian, French, German, etc. intel agencies pretty much follow this rule, and try best to avoid any misunderstanding by not poaching into each other's territory. Exception is CIA. It would accept the hospitality of it's host, and then runs away with host's wife, just beacuse (it thinks) it has more resources.
Dont think thats true.....
Only difference is Unkil is more brazen and goes the extra mile compared to other "friendly" agencies to penetrate friends.....
There is no such thing as a friend in the intel world(maybe the MI6/CIA combo is an exception!!??)
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Post by G Subramaniam »

Austin wrote:Question to gurus

Over the years we have seen efforts by CIA to penetrate Indian Intelligence Setup , some have been successfully detected.

But we have not seen over the years where our CI community has ever caught Russian (SVR) Intel , trying to penetrate our Intel setup.

Dont the Russian Intel community try to penetrate our setup or being a friendly nation they don't do that , which is hard to believe as well .
During the Morarji regime,
I often saw newsreports of Russian diplomats being asked to leave

The press in India is asked to keep quiet on Russian spies, since Russia is the major defence supplier
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Post by shyamd »

Ohh the KGB were as bad as the CIA. Like I said before, in the 70's, they didn't reveal much to their agents because it would reach the CIA very fast. It worked vis a vis aswell, CIA didnt talk about plans to their agents either for fear it would reach the KGB very fast!

KGB also had its largest station in India. The SVR is currently headed by an economist who used to work in the Trade section of the Soviet Embassy in India.

Putin has also instructed the SVR to play a role in helping Russian companies gain foreign sales/contracts.

In the IG days, there was a big spy case but it was kept under wraps.

Let me remind you that the head of KGB station in India boasted that the whole country was for sale in the 70's.

It is imperative that we have a strong Counter intel set up and quality talent sitting on those desks. The problem with Indian intel is not so much achieving things, it is the lack of Pro-active intelligence that is our main problem. We can investigate terrorist attacks, we can launch special ops if need be, we just need to be a bit pro-active.
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Post by shyamd »

Intelligence agencies to go the ‘wiki’ way
[quote]Work on this information sharing-project is being done along with IIT Chennai

NEW DELHI: The Indian intelligence apparatus is working on an ambitious project that aims to create an information-sharing platform for national intelligence agencies working within the country and overseas.

Officials in the know said the National Technical Research Organisation has been working on it in collaboration with prominent technical universities like the Indian Institute of Technology, Chennai for the last two years.

The NTRO, the technical arm of Indian intelligence reports to the National Security Advisor and the Principal Scientific Advisor to the Prime Minister.

Officials privy to some aspects of the project say that on a basic level, the proposed platform will be on the lines of a ‘wiki’ and authorised users will be able to add, edit and correct information posted on the platform.

“Once a user — invariably from the agencies sharing the system —logs on to the system, the content will be available to him for correction, editing or additions. Every such addition will be cross-checked by other users and the information will stay on the page if it holds good unanimously,â€
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Post by k prasad »

DESIDOC has also created an internal wiki for DRDO.. its in the previous Tech focus. I think the NTRO one is on the same lines.
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Post by Dilbu »

CBI, RAW trade charges as mole remains elusive :roll:
Research and Analysis Wing, country's external Intelligence gathering wing, has come in for a sharp criticism for allegedly mishandling the espionage case involving Rabindra Singh, a joint secretary level officer, who fled to the United States.


At a recent high level review meeting convened by the government, the Central Bureau of Investigation said that the Interpol had refused to issue a Red Corner warrant against Singh on the ground that the charges appeared to be political in nature, official sources said.


Despite several reminders to the RAW for providing some more details including that of Singh's property, there was no communication whatsoever from the RAW about the same, the meeting was told.

"We have sent in several reminders to the RAW but not a single paper has come. Not even an acknowledgement," a senior CBI official said, adding it seems RAW's probe was more of an eyewash.


At the meeting, RAW officials tried to blame the CBI for not securing the Red Corner Notice against Singh, who fled to the US in May 2004, despite surveillance while the CBI spoke of Interpol's decision and also its subsequent correspondence with RAW officials seeking more details.
:-?


Invoking special provisions, the RAW was authorised by the government to conduct a probe and prosecute the guilty in the case.


After obtaining a non-bailable arrest warrant in February, Singh fled to the US in 2004. RAW had approached the CBI to make a case against the official with Interpol and to secure a Red Corner notice.

Based on the non-bailable warrant, Interpol headquarters at Lyons in France [Images] had raised several questions, including why the arrest warrant was issued nearly two-and-half years after he had fled the country despite facing serious charges like spying.


They also sought information on the sensitive department handled by Singh and the national secrets allegedly leaked by him, sources said, adding, however, RAW had refused to provide any clarifications. Singh is believed to be living at Jackson Heights in New York.


According to sources, fresh investigations from the RAW officials were required as to whether he has procured assets disproportionate to his known sources of income.


The complaint said a case had been registered under the Officials Secrets Act against Singh, who fled the country on May 14, 2004. It is suspected that Singh compromised national security by spying for a western intelligence agency.


Though officially the RAW has not mentioned the name of this agency, sources said Singh was working as a mole for the CIA and fled through Nepal on a passport in a fake name.


Singh was placed under surveillance when he was allegedly found photocopying documents unrelated to his work. A secret report said Singh, whose wife and other family members lived in the US, had bank accounts in Singapore, Brunei and the US.


His disappearance became a major embarrassment for the government and the RAW, who failed to explain how he managed to get out of the country and why there was a delay in taking action against him.
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Post by Philip »

Insect 'spies' fitted with video camera implants
By Sophie Borland
Last Updated: 8:01am GMT 06/03/2008

Scientists are creating real-life "flies-on-the-walls" by fitting insects with special implants that enable them to be used as spies.

The creatures are being installed with special electrodes, batteries and even video cameras that enable them to be remote-controlled and used for surveillance.

The US Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency is currently experimenting by inserting tiny brain probes into insects such as moths and beetles whilst they are still in the pupa stage.

advertisementAs the creature develops, the implants are naturally incorporated into their body enabling them to send back information to a central computer.

The insects, known as "cyborgs", are thought to have many benefits over robots as they would be almost indistinguishable from any other animal.

Researchers working for the US military believe that they could eventually be used in hostage situations or sent to enemy barracks.

They are hoping to engineer insects that could fly up to 300 feet away and then stay in a particular place until they are commanded to leave again.

According to New Scientist, which has reported on the developments, "The next time a moth lands on your window sill, watch what you say.

"It may look like an innocent visitor, irresistibly drawn to the light in your room, but it could actually be a spy - one of a new generation of cyborg insects with implants wired into their nerves to allow remote control of their movement.

"Be warned, flesh-and-blood bugs may soon live up to their name."

Larger creatures such as rats, pigeons and sharks have also been installed with spy devices by the US military with varying levels of success.

Rats have been implanted with electrodes in their brains to control their movement and they have then been trained to sniff out particular scents such as human bodies and explosives.

Sharks are said to be particularly useful as they have a remarkable sense of smell that allows them to detect very faint scents of chemicals.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/main.j ... bot106.xml
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Post by Tanaji »

Check out the Wikipedia entry for Ashok Chaturvedi. It seems to be written in quite a partisan way. A good job though, well written without the hyperbole.

Wonder what the truth is, all is (never was since Kao) not well with RAW.
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Post by Kersi D »

Austin wrote:
ramana wrote:Austin have you ever wondered why India's agencies are police origin while UK are military origin even for counter-intelligence?
I am asking I dont have answers.
Ramana , I don't have an answer to this , but my thinking is it has to do with IB heritage and Indian Political Estb wouldn't like Military to run Intelligence Organisation whose character doesn't exactly fit onlee Military types.
Could it be our "patriotic" baus at work. Police can be easily controlled by them by they cannot control the military that easily. A "police" based Intel agency can be "used" by them for their dirty work a l a Watergate. BNut a military based agency will not bow to their whims
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Post by K Mehta »

Posting in full for analysis of the news
Kashmir Singh admits he was spy

Kashmir Singh, who was freed from Pakistani jail after 35 years, on Friday admitted that he was an Indian spy and did his best to serve the country, but deplored that successive governments at the Centre did nothing for his family.

"After my arrest in 1974, the successive governments did nothing for my family. I did the duty assigned to me as a spy, but the government, after my arrest, did not bother to spend a single penny for my family," a calm and composed looking Singh, who was accompanied by his wife Paramjeet Kaur, said.

Sixty-seven-year-old Singh thanked God for being kind to him and said the various governments at the Centre did nothing for any of the prisoners languishing in various jails in Pakistan.

"The Central government did not bother to take care of my family following my arrest. The government does only the paper work," he said.

Asked whether he was sent to Pakistan by the military intelligence and the route he took to go there, Singh said, "Even Pakistan authorities failed to get this information from me. I was paid Rs 400 as salary. As per duty, I went to serve the country," he said.

Asked what he would like to say for some other people who are working in similar kind of professions, Singh said, "I was a spy and did my duty. About others I will not comment, I am not President of the country to give a reply to such queries".

Singh, who was lodged in seven different jails in Pakistan, said, "I will not tell the story of my ordeal in Pakistani prisons as it will damage the cases of about 100 other such prisoners languishing in jails there".

"I can only say that I am a firm believer in God and even offered namaz and kept roza (fast) in the Pakistani jails," he said.

When asked how she managed to sustain her family, Kaur said, "I worked as maid".

"After my husband's arrest, the Central government gave no compensation to the family and left me in a lurch," she said.

He said in Pakistani prisons, he was known by the name 'Ibrahim'. "I was kept in solitary confinement and remained chained for 17 long years", he said.

Earlier, Singh along with his wife met Punjab chief minister Parkash Singh Badal, who announced a pension of Rs 5000 per month each to Kashmir Singh and his wife Parmajit Kaur in recognition of his 'outstanding services' towards the nation.

Badal also promised to grant a government job to one eligible dependent of Kashmir Singh.

Badal said that, if necessary, the Punjab government would go beyond the existing policy for such cases and take the matter to the Cabinet as a 'one off' case, because, in the chief minister's view, government rules were not above the sacrifice of patriots.

The chief minister also announced to bear the entire expenditure for the construction of a house for Kashmir Singh and his family over a plot donated by his media advisor Harcharan Bains in Mahilpur.

On the occasion, Badal and his wife Surinder Kaur Badal honoured the couple with a shawl and a garland and assured full support and cooperation to them on behalf of the Punjab government.
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Post by ramana »

The police origins is one aspect. However since ancient times the main threat to India was internal subversion followed by external aggression. Read Kautilya's Arthsastra. So its a defensive set-up. Only during Chola period we see offensive posture. Until the idea of India takes firm root and folks stop thinking in terms of group dynamics there wont be a shift in the intel culture. But that does not prevent a far sighted leadership to start using mil intelligence for only they are capable of offensive ops while retaingi the primacy of police functionaries.

Raj Malhotra intel police is different type than traffic constable. So lets not tar them all with same brush. The agencies a typical bureacrats do agonise over legitmacy of the operations inside India. Read Dhar and Raman's works.
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Post by Surya »

Most intel guys never get the policeman out of themselves.

Before any discussions one needs to read the few books whihc have recently come out by Dhar, etc.

It makes an appaling read.

The whole IPS connection needs to be severed.
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Post by ramana »

I talked to someone who was involved in recommending the chiefs of the kachha folks. He said that the early chiefs were IPS and fully knew the system of GOI checks and balances and accountability(finances). The RAS types were not so deligent- more cowboy style. So in mid 80s a decision was taken to put IPS folks with kacha ops experience so that the look and feel of GOI is maintained. From this I figured that a totally different ab initio service needs to be created and not a jugaad or else the IPS connection is not severed. As you can see form Dhar and Raman's books one needs to be fully seconded to intel to be effective. this transfers from outside and rotations are bad practice. I also think once in a while the mil intel guys should be seconded and even posted to be the chiefs like in US. Look at the many heads of the chefs.
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Post by Dilbu »

Let CBI be an enforcement agency: panel
[quote]NEW DELHI: A parliamentary committee has recommended that the Central Bureau of Investigation be envisaged as an enforcement agency and given the mandate to ensure prevention of crimes, apart from investigation and prosecution.

The Standing Committee on Personnel, Public Grievances, Law and Justice recommended that a separate “anti-terrorism divisionâ€
Nayak
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Post by Nayak »

Spies run out of luck someday, Gurbax did at 24

[quote]
Ferozepur: Gurbax Lal is 41. Doesn’t have a steady job. And is single, with diminishing hopes of ever marrying. Life is over for him. And there are just regrets he can look back at.

Gurbax is a former spy, sent, he says, to Pakistan by the Research and Analysis Wing (R&AW), the agency primarily responsible for gathering intelligence outside India.

He won’t divulge operational details, but not out of loyalty to the country or the intelligence agency. He doesn’t want more trouble. “They can put me away under the Official Secrets Act,â€
sanjaychoudhry
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Post by sanjaychoudhry »

delted
Last edited by sanjaychoudhry on 24 Mar 2008 20:19, edited 1 time in total.
sanjaychoudhry
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Post by sanjaychoudhry »

deleted ... old article
Locked