Bharat Rakshak

Please post accounts of battles in Ancient and Medieval India.

Eg.
Historynet.com's Alexander and the Battle of Hydaspes River

Enjoy.

Read about how Alexander's Setu allowed him to lay seige to the island fortress of Tyre.

From the first link- nice collation, but the author cannot help but display which side he is rooting for.

The Indians were even more astonished than the Guards as Alexander landed on his feet, put his back to the wall and assumed his fighting stance. A group of Indians then attacked, but all, including their commander, fell to his sword. Alexander felled a second leader with a stone, hurled with the force of a small catapult. More Mallians only added their bodies to the growing heap in front of the raging commander. [i]The Indians may have been brave, but they recognized a near-inhuman killing machine, a veritable mythic hero from their Vedic epics come to life, and prudently kept their distance, forming a half circle from which to hurl every sort of missile at him. [/i]

Thats the whole problem with most accounts of Alexander or anyone Greek- hagiographical to the extreme. OTOH, accounts of Indian history have been suitably edited of anything imprudent and "martial" by our generous Marxist historians.

I think Airavat would like this thread as well.

Well i loved all tales taught in history books about Great Shivaji and his Guerrilla warfare ..but i guess those wouldnt qualify here..but its great whenever one gets to read about them..its all about having faith in ones capabilities..and use of brains over just brawn.

Gentlemen,

Recently I came across a wikipedia entry called the "Battle of Rajasthan"...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Rajasthan

... where an Indian coalition stopped the invading Arab army in an Indian equivalent action of Vienna, Lepanto or atleast Potiers in historic significance. In the same article is a mention of another battle vaguely mentioned in history text-books - the Battle of Navsari - where a combined Solanki (late Chalukya) and Rashtrakuta army stopped another Arab invasion in Gujarat.

* The two battles effectively determined that the Islamic influence in India would be of a decidedly different Turco-Iranian flavour than the Arab one (which streches from Morocco to Iran).

* The Battle of Rajasthan is interesting because both sides were fighting in familiar territory - the desert - unlike Tours (Franks basically lured the Arabs into the mountains in the winter), Lepanto (Spanish vs. Turks on seas) or Vienna (a set-piece battle in Europe).

Let us for the moment ignore the religious aspect and concentrate only on its national character. Why then have I never read of it in Indian history text-books (one set of state-board, NCERT)?

Detailed Rajput History and Battles

edited on advice of Rakesh

Rakesh the purpose of my comments was to highlight the bias of the Marxist historians against native indians and not muslim bashing.

Thank u.

RAW Agent: Please read forum guidelines on choosing a proper username. Before you reply to my second point below, I would prefer that you change it or I will do that for you.

Secondly, this forum is not meant to vent your pet peeves you appear to have against Muslims. What you just mentioned above, while tragically wrong, is part of Indian History or to put it better - the history of Bharat. Please stop with your agenda on Muslim bashing, as that is NOT the purpose of this thread and portray the battle for what it was worth. If after this you still cannot connect the dots, then take a cue from forum members who posted earlier than you in this thread. Thank You.

Ramana the thread title is not making grammatical sense and thus I changed from 'Ancient and Medieval India Battles History thread' to 'Historical Battles in Ancient & Medieval Bharat'. I hope that is okay.

Sorry, mate, but there aren't any mountains anywhere near Tours, so although we don't know the exact site of the battle, we can confidently say no mountains were involved. The story is that Martel avoided Arab scouts by marching his army through "mountains" (really, forested hills, of modest size), rather than along the old Roman roads. But the Arabs had advanced through gentle, fertile, countryside once they'd crossed the Pyrenees.

Also, it was early October, which is not exactly winter. Early autumn, usually mild weather though quite often wet - the traditional campaigning season in Europe, after the harvest was in, so plenty of food for the armies. The Arabs had been fighting in France on & off for 20 years, so they knew what they were doing, & fighting at that time of year was their choice. They were the ones on the offensive, remember.

MAHABHARATA,,how can anybody forget this epic,,,people say MAHABHARAT was a myth but i think its true

I think so too -it is too detailed and accurate to be a fiction

Left over parts of Indika of Megasthenes

A little-known battle in 1581, during the hieght of the Islamic rebellion against the Mughal Emperor Akbar.

Sanderson-Beck



The final battle fought outside Kabul was crucial since the foreign muslims in Mirza Hakim's army had publicly stated that their battle was with the Kaffir Akbar and his Rajput allies and not with Muslims.

At this time Akbar was still on his way to Jalalabad, and the army defending Kabul was commanded by his son Murad and Kunwar Man Singh. The enemy troops boasted, "The Turanis and Persians who are in the Imperial army will join us without fighting, the brave Rajputs will perish, and the other natives of India will be made prisoners!"

Mirza Hakim's men camped on the hill range overlooking the Kabul plain and made their assault on August 2, 1581. The imperial troops were pushed back towards the city walls. But Man Singh and his Rajputs made a counter-attack using elephants with swivel-guns mounted on their backs. These elephants broke the enemy's advance and the swivel-guns shot down the leaders of their army....disheartened and distracted the foreign Muslims broke and fled. Hakim narrowly evaded capture near Kotal Minar and escaped to Ghorband.

When Akbar reached Kabul on the 11th Hakim submitted to him.

A crucial battle because victory lay with a mixed force of foreigners and Indians against a purely foreign force. Subsequent to this Man Singh also crushed the Raushaniya fanatics and the Yusufzai Pathans in the same region.

One has to be crazy or stupid to think Mahabharat is a myth.

Steven Pressfield gives a very good historic-fictional account of it in The Virtues of War. I had thought he had made up this legend because he is somewhat of an Indophile, but never knew it was based on historic account. Not that I thought ancient Indians as slave-holders, but that it was unlikely that ancient Greeks were sophisticated enough to acknowledge virtues in others (the recognized arts and sciences) - the narration is from a Greek perspective.

Or Romila Thapar..
Given the amount of stuff they have dug up over the years- it definitely did occur. Dwarka was a myth, till they started finding the submerged citie/s.
There is a decent book written on "ancient indian warfare" by a rtd IA general- forgot his name, which goes into the classical formations mentioned in the Mahabharat, and their tactics etc.

Airavat,

Thats a pretty interesting account. You could also post the swan song of the Kacchawa Rajputs, where they had the same tactics- swivel guns on cavalry, used against them and were caught on the wrong foot.

Also, quite interesting to note that despite the Mughals having had artillery galore, they were not that adept in its use. The Persians & Turks otoh were quite specialised.

The Week has a good article on the Rani of Jhansi, more of a book review actually- kind of debunks her as a Tantya Tope equal/ freedom fighter, and points to her being a reluctant last moment entry when the Brits spurned all her entreaties for a fair deal.

I think her "mythos" is pretty much due to Subhadra Kumari Chauhans poem dedicated to her.

Wars of Alexander the Great: Battle of the Hydaspes River

This looks like self-aggrandizement of auropeans.

In the month of May INDIANs fought hard and Porus Surrendered and in the month of JULY Indian fought hard again. (But in the month of May indians were defeated, isn't it?)

then Alexander - III, the gay's army was fighting for eight years, and crossing indus was a cake walk but ganges wd be difficult. and there was monsoon, very ferocious the auropean never had seen.

and here is the piece

Fatigue drained the men's morale - (or they shat in their pants seeing the large and ferocious army of Nanda?)

***

In few more links you will find Samudragupta is compared to Napolean. How about auropean supremacy. Samudragupta was born 1000 years before napolean but that arrogance will always keep the auropeans one up even if Alexander the gay's army shat in their pants.

***

This is an interesting discussion. My 2 paisa is maybe it is based on actual events. Similar to the way the Legend of King Arthur evolved.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lucius_Artorius_Castus

After all it is in prose and the longest poems ever. They are always open to interpretation. As a scientist what I have found most amazing is the references to (again open to interpretation) genetics, cloning, fusion etc.. as far back as 5th century BC.

Someone quoted as saying that 50% of the greek population was slave.

Acharyaji more than 75% of total ancient Greek population was slave.


http://www.britannica.com/ebi/article-201729

I feel uncomfortable when you call me Acharyaji

Acharya it was sort of rekindling gesture since I was away so long. Had no intention of making you uncomfortable. Apologies and big HI to all BRfites.

Has this been posted before?

[quote]
In conclusion, this article has tried to address the basic issue, whether “ Thirteen dayâ€

Ah you mean the Battle of Manupur (1748).




These causes of retreat were propounded by colonial Europeans to disguise the fear in the Greeks and the military setbacks they suffered in fighting the small Indian states. Note that the modern Europeans relentlessly denigrate the Indian war-elephant, claiming that a "few sword thrusts" would frighten the beasts and send them running (!).

In reality the ancient Greeks (Alex included) had a wholesome respect for the war-elephant. Later rulers like Seleucos and Hannibal tried to obtain elephants for their own campaigns. It's safe to say that if Hannibal's army had fifty elephants instead of the twelve that survived the crossing of the Alps, there may never have been a Roman Empire.

While visiting Jodhpur I was intrigued by the fact that Marwaris (actuaries) under writing Moghal campaigns and trading decent profits out of war. Is this analogous to King George Bush financing the trillion dollar war in Iraq and coming soon Iran war with Chinese bought treasury bills?

Make War to make Money (action call to riches!)

From the movie Thomas Becket

'I would rather corrupt than occupy' King Henry ( peter Otoole)

JS, could you give a few more details about the said marwari financing?

Thanks in advance.

Marwaris are just one small trading community among Indians, while Chinese are a national entiety: The motivations beyond money or the purpose of the said acquired money can be quite different. Like abhi before I would love to know the specific campaigns they financed... we can then piece together possible motivation from the adversery faced or the region involved.

Why is it surprising? The Marwaris and many other communities in India engaged in commerce with, supported, and even fought for the Mughals. Its a matter of survival after all and making the best of what you have- another Indian trait. Doesnt reduce the fact that bar significant swathes of Akbars period of rule, the Mughal empire was still a despotic centralized empire which often fell into Islamist bigotry. While one may recognise this fact, it is also equally true that the Mughals were the dominant central empire in North India for a significant period & money lenders, feudal chieftains, and mercenaries all served them and made money off them!

The first recorded battle in Indian History:

DASRAJAN

The battle of ten kings

Date: could be anywhere between 3500 BCE and 1900 BCE, depending on how the Rigveda is dated. Although chronologically it definitely occured 4 or 5 centuries before the Mahabharat War.

Background: The ancestors of the Kauravs-Pandavs (of the famous Mahabharat epic) belonged to the Bharat clan. Over a period of centuries this clan formed numerous settlements between the Saraswati and Yamuna Rivers....the clan name was applied to this kingdom. In the internal struggles for power, Sudas of the Tritsu sub-clan became dominant over the Kingdom of Bharat.

Vishvamitra of the Kusika family was his priest but Sudas replaced him with Vasishta due to the latter's greater knowledge. A long rivalry broke out between the two priests until Vishwamitra left the Kingdom of Bharat. He formed a confederacy of ten clan-kingdoms in northwestern India, which feared the political expansion of Bharat, and used them to take his revenge.

The Battle: The clan-kingdoms of Puru, Yadu, Turvasu, Anu, and Dhruyu, along with the lesser-known Alina, Pakhta, Bhalanas, Siva, and Vishanin, joined their forces and marched towards the Kingdom of Bharat. Sudas received intelligence of this movement and gathered his forces to stop the allied host on the River Parushni (Ravi).

Sudas appears to have dammed the river and then unleashed its force when the armies of the ten kings reached the spot. As the raging Parushni washed over them, the Anu and Dhruhyu kings were drowned, and the allied forces scattered. Sudas launched his chariots and infantry on the wavering enemy, Purukutsa of the Puru Kingdom was killed, the rest of the allies broke and fled.

Interesting thread. One of the premise is about history is, "It is written by victors". It is a well recognized fact, Alexander never quite met his match during his march to glory except in Porus. His all glorified victory of Darius rings a little hollow because, Darius himself was a little coward, most persians were happy at his demise, "Good Riddance".

As far as Marwari's are concerned, Bhamashah was a Marwari Baniya who financed the entire war effort of Rana Pratap. Yours Truly had the pleasure to visit Udaipur, where Rana Pratap's armor and swords are at display. It is written, his armour and swords together weighed, 100kg. It is mind boggling weight on a man who is going to fight with swords. Further, the urban legend has it, Rana Pratap was so powerful he would cut a man and his horse in two pieces with his blow.

Agree with JCage on Rani laxmi Bai, she reluctantly joined the mutiny after all her concillatory efforts were spurned by Brits. However, Still that doesn't diminish her fighting skills or her resolve.

As far as Mahabharat is concerned..the televised version of this legend united this nation beyond anyone's belief. Krishan was 16 kalaon ka gyata tha.

IMHO Mahabharat is and will always be more relevant than Ramayan. Agree with others, "whoever thinks mahabharat never happened...is a moron" One character was missed in this serial, "BavanVeer".

ssmitra
IMO sanskrit is the only language that can describe events in least amout of words, hence the prose format. You can agree or disagree.

Baljeet, I am neither agreeing or disagreeing. I have studied sanskrit as a lot of us in till 10th. the reason I say interpretation is key, is because if you ask any of the teachers or even "Shastri's" they always have some variation to the meaning depending on whether they studied in say patna, varanasi or hardwar.

That's just not true. Sanskrit is perhaps the only language which is very well defined as in it can never have dual meanings or very rarely if at all depending on the "not so cleverness" of the reader.

Mitra Ji, You obviously didn't study Sanskrit very well till Class 10.

The clarity in meaning (which imho is a USP) is one of the reasons why Sanskrit is so vast and appears complex to untrained or under trained eyes.

Sri no need for a personal denigration, this is a discussion. I completely agree with you that Sanskrit is one of the most defined language. But we are talking about something written in the form of a prose.
But lets get back to the topic.

OK lets not get into merits of Sanskrit here. Please stick to topic.

Thanks, ramana

How vast was Asoka's empire? After Chandra Gupta whacked Seleucus and took over Bactria and parts of Persia how far did Asoka extend it? Are all these Stans like Afghanistan, Kazakhstan etc., result of Asoka's Conquest?

Rani of Jansi
http://azygos.sulekha.com/blog/post/200 ... graphy.htm

The Rani of Jhansi - a short biography
[quote]
THE RANI FRAMED



“Evil things were said of her, for it is a custom among us odisse quem laeseris-to take a Native ruler’s kingdom and then to revile the deposed ruler or his would be successor. It was alleged that the Ranee was a mere child under the influence of others, and that she was given to intemperance. That she was not a mere child was demonstrated by her conversation; and her intemperance seems to be a mythâ€

Better discussion on Sanskrit is HERE

I'm sorry. It just seemed very clever at that moment.

no problem.....