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PostPosted: 30 May 2012 03:33 
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ajay sharma, viv, gaur, brvarsh:
You all did not read my post correctly. I said:
Quote:
Do you know medieveal Indian history much? If you did, since I am convinced you don't know, you would realise that muslim states cannot be trusted. Find me one example where a muslim state did not betray the Hindus.


Notice the word state? Individuals helping out is not relevant. So gauntlet is thrown show me an example.

Furthermore Sharma writes:
Quote:
Pls check your history, there were enough Hindu and Muslim troops together on either side of battlefield in medieval times for you not to oversimplify things

Hindus fought for Mughals because they had given their daughters to Mughal kings. They saw with their own eyes destruction of temples in numerous places and did nothing. The presence of Hindus on the side of Mughals is *not* an act of secularism.

Since you *claim* to know history let us put it to test. I would like to see examples where Muslims supported Hindu kings and did not betray them.

Lastly I would like to point out that the myopic thinking that you are showing is what prevades in our ruling elite today and that is why we have nonsense discussions in higher echelons of moving ourselves out of Siachen, be sensitive to Pakis, remove AFSPA etc etc.


Last edited by peter on 30 May 2012 03:45, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 30 May 2012 03:39 
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johneeG, first things first, I am an advocate of not vacating Siachen. Second thing, I come from a family with several generations having served in IA and the princely armies etc. Though never joined the forces, have experienced the stress of carrying the thought of losing one's kith and kin. Thirdly, I don't love or support any concession to Pakland (perhaps enough baggages within the family of experiencing partition)...

What I am asking some self styled historians over here is that whatever conclusions they have come up with, it doesnt mean anything because India is still a secular and pluralistic nation.

When people selectively cull out data to suit their point from history to make sweeping statements that question the patriotism of certain Indians, I would like to know what has been their own contribution which makes them feel superior to those communities...???


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PostPosted: 30 May 2012 03:42 
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Peter, there were Hindu Muslim baggages perhaps, but a lot of treachery was not for religion but for self gain... and enough within co-religionists to put up an equally strong argument that opposes your conclusion. So to paint a black vs white picture is not right


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PostPosted: 30 May 2012 03:47 
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Ajay Sharma wrote:
Peter, there were Hindu Muslim baggages perhaps, but a lot of treachery was not for religion but for self gain... and enough within co-religionists to put up an equally strong argument that opposes your conclusion. So to paint a black vs white picture is not right


Buddy don't handwave because this is what JNU our premier institution is good at. Show me some data.


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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2012 12:07 
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I think Govt of Dr MMS and its dreamy success in driving record expansion of Indian economy has finally come to an end. I have been a strong supporter of Dr Singh and his govt over last 7 years and still firmly believe in his integrity and wisdom to lead India. He knows what needs to be done better than most but I think after Telecom scandal followed by numerous others that followed it some fictitious and some real, he has lost the command over coalition govt that he runs. Most policy steps that his govt took or tried to take has been reversed or nipped in the bud. His present position and shattered reputation has allowed his rivals, colleges and partners to gain an upper hand. His position is like that of Obama with respect to US congress. In short neither of them can garner support for their policies so a “policy paralysis” will continue until a new leader takes over. Both these otherwise capable leaders have been cornered by their rivals, prevailing situations and fate if you'll. Time to go!

At this point I don't think he can turn it around successfully, an immediate leadership change, even with Yuvraj or Sonia, would bring a sense of hope for change and freshness for remaining 2 years. Elections at this fragile time would/could cause more troubles……


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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2012 18:33 
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Joined: 12 Jul 1999 11:31
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Location: In the soft spots!!!
>>I have been a strong supporter of Dr Singh and his govt over last 7 years and still firmly believe in his integrity and wisdom to lead India.

Keep dreaming.

MMS is ther most corrupt PM this country has ever had. Sure, he did not take money. But he did look the other way even as his cabinet members were indulging in corruption of biblical proportions (pun intended). Why? So that he could stay on as PM.

Is that also not corruption? He may not be money corrupt, but he is power corrupt. He is a Gandhian.


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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2012 19:57 
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Location: JJ colony , downtown manhattan.
I am seriously beginning to doubt ,whether 1991 reforms had anything to do with MMS... To me they were pvnrs idea onlee and credit should go to him ..that much is becoming painfully apparent..

A good government would address infrastructural issues , create proper investment environment ,facilitate industry by proper legislations and take proactive steps in development of the backward regions..

The present government does not show any signs of that..

The decent growth that we had from 2005-2009 were a result of sound policy framed during the NDA besides global acceleration.. UPA was at the "right place at the right time" and got credit for that ...

But now they have run out of luck ..coalition politics is a poor excuse... And none of the scams are imaginary... all took place...but poor policy did worse damage than all scams combined..


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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2012 20:04 
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gakakkad wrote:
I am seriously beginning to doubt ,whether 1991 reforms had anything to do with MMS... To me they were pvnrs idea onlee and credit should go to him ..that much is becoming painfully apparent.


Yes, Several commentators including TNN have pointed this out. PVNR unfortunately let everyone think MMS was in charge in case it all went South. The real courage was political. MMS has shown an unfortunate tendency to buckle before the strong and powerful and to go after the weak. Willing to crack the skulls of the AH crowd but defends the rights of the 2G crowd.


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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2012 20:21 
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>>I have been a strong supporter of Dr Singh and his govt over last 7 years and still firmly believe in his integrity and wisdom to lead India.


He is the ONLY reason we are having discussion here in this thread. He is an incompetent and self-serving government clerk. I can find people like MMS in many government departments all over India. They can take orders and implement plans but they dont have the "balls" to make an omlette because you need to break an egg first!
Integrity and wisdom! :rotfl:


Last edited by Altair on 04 Jun 2012 21:50, edited 1 time in total.

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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2012 20:41 
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Theo_Fidel wrote:
Yes, Several commentators including TNN have pointed this out. PVNR unfortunately let everyone think MMS was in charge in case it all went South. The real courage was political. MMS has shown an unfortunate tendency to buckle before the strong and powerful and to go after the weak. Willing to crack the skulls of the AH crowd but defends the rights of the 2G crowd.



No, PVNR was denied credit for his role in RJM_BM issue. Many leftists hate him for that.


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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2012 20:47 
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Location: With/without/despite you - Andhera Chatega, Suraj niklega, Kamal khilega...[spare me, Kamal=Perfect]
In November 1992, prime minister Rao ordered Dhar to arrange a discreet meeting with the supremo of the RSS (Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh), the fountainhead of Hindutva. The wily Congressman actually had “old linkages with the Sangh as a student”. (p 466)


- Extract from Intelligence and National security thread. Book 'Open Secrets' by Maloy Krishna Dhar.


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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2012 21:06 
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Mod ji
I swear I would not rant and post my emotions of anger if people here desist posting provocations by referring to a politician's wisdom and integrity.
No politics or politicians. I will uphold the integrity of this thread if others oblige with the rule of not bringing politics.
Altair


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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2012 21:34 
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Altair: "he started it" is not really an explanation. If you have an issue with a post, please report it and move along. I'm sure you're capable of posting useful content on this thread and elsewhere, but the emotion gets in your way.


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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2012 21:50 
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I reported the post. It is a blatant provocation and I will not sit on my hands.


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PostPosted: 04 Jun 2012 23:13 
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Altair wrote:
I reported the post. It is a blatant provocation and I will not sit on my hands.

Far from it. It's your post in response to Katare that's provocative. Opining about performance in a mature manner is neither provocative nor against forum rules. If you disagree, an equally mature response with your POV would have been the best approach; trolling and cheap shots will get you warned next time for thread disruption. I'll let another mod address your post report itself. No further discussion on the topic in this thread please; use the forum feedback thread.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2012 09:52 
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Location: Terrorists have no religion until it's time to hang them - then we find out the religion
Victor wrote:
shiv wrote:
Exactly where is the US going?

We don't know and there's nothing we can do about it even if we did. Whining about America is not a productive use of our time. BTW, didn't you say you were going to spare us your sanctimony here?

I didn't say that. Put me on your ignore list Uncle Tom if reading my posts is a waste of your time.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2012 09:57 
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Victor wrote:
BTW, didn't you say you were going to spare us your sanctimony here?

When the US starts to spare us its sanctimony on 'religious freedom', we can maybe have Shiv ji reciprocate. Until that point is reached, your suggestion is quite idiotic.


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PostPosted: 06 Aug 2012 10:07 
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shiv wrote:
Put me on your ignore list Uncle Tom if reading my posts is a waste of your time.

I will try harder and please return the favour. I was going to respond to point out how moronic and pathetic you are beginning to sound but you are doing a good job yourself.


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PostPosted: 12 Mar 2013 21:38 
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BRFite

Joined: 03 May 2012 22:34
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LoL Chinese sure don't know how to handle eing caught with their pants down after lying through there teeth about pindeginous capability.


"What you feel or hope don't matter a bit in the real world". Exactly china may see itself as a superpower but it real world it doesn't matter at all since it is not even close to medium power.


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 06:15 
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BRFite

Joined: 19 Feb 2009 13:30
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Sagar G wrote:
ashi wrote:
Sure. Whatever you say, don't bother me a bit.


Oh don't flatter yourself I don't give a hoot for any of your country's copy pasted/stolen weapons you can keep jumping in joy each and every time your country manages to copy/steal something, take your sorry ass and your claims of "indigenization" to some place else.

ashi wrote:
We have a lot to look forward to, J-20, J-31, Y-20, J-10B, J-15, the list goes on. :-)


Yeah whatever :rotfl:

ashi wrote:
There is nothing to be ashamed of, at least we don't need to import rifles from foreign countries.


We make our own attack choppers, you can shove your "indigenous" rifle up your's oh no wait the PLA already does that :lol:


Likewise, you can shovel your import rifle up your, haha, I bet it feels better than a insas.


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 06:19 
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You can shove the entire Joke series up your ass since no one except desperate pakis is stupid enough to buy it.


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 07:33 
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Bheeshma wrote:
You can shove the entire Joke series up your ass since no one except desperate pakis is stupid enough to buy it.


And you can shove the entire Arjun tank up your ass since even your own armed force doesn't want it.


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 10:58 
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BRFite

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And you can stuff the useless yuan, song up your moms butt hole since the plan is now running after amur 1650. Shows the quality of the c grade chinese made stuff. :rotfl: Even chinese with no access to any quality products won't touch them or blunder 17. :mrgreen: .


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 11:46 
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Bheeshma wrote:
And you can stuff the useless yuan, song up your moms butt hole since the plan is now running after amur 1650. Shows the quality of the c grade chinese made stuff. :rotfl: Even chinese with no access to any quality products won't touch them or blunder 17. :mrgreen: .


And you can shove Arjun and LCA up to your mom's ass since that's where they will end up.


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 11:52 
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Marten wrote:
Bheeshma, ashi: Please stop treating this like a Paqui or Sino website. I won't miss either of you for this cheap flaming.


I am just responding in kind. A cheap shot deserves a cheap shot in return.


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 12:40 
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Location: Piece Keeping Mission In Balochistan
ashi wrote:
I am just responding in kind. A cheap shot deserves a cheap shot in return.

Ofcourse, you win....Chinese are well known for cheap quality only..... :rotfl:


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 13:02 
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martinbaker wrote:
Ofcourse, you win....Chinese are well known for cheap quality only..... :rotfl:


Yet we sale a lot in your market. So what does that tell you?


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 13:27 
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^Seriously? This is the quality of BR now? Mods please shut this shit fest down.


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 13:32 
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BRFite

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^Everyone likes cheap sh!t?

But seriously, if you want to avoid such flame wars, it should be nipped in the bud, not after some days to weeks later.


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 17:25 
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U.S. Steps Up Alarm Over Cyberattacks


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 17:27 
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There is a more complete article in the WSJ (print?), but here is another angle:

Xi Jinping’s Chinese Dream


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PostPosted: 13 Mar 2013 18:05 
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ashi wrote:
Likewise, you can shovel your import rifle up your, haha, I bet it feels better than a insas.


The imported ones are also going up your's, just don't worry about that and I promise it will feel better than your "indigenous" ones haha.


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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2013 18:14 
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Wow!! sorry to sound a different tune, but a separate thread on Uttrakhand tragedy was not allowed, where more than 10,000 people may have died, but a personal I flew and I am glorious thread thrives. Cry Mother India, for we have become so Dhimmis that we even do not recognize it.
rgds,
fanne


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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2013 18:51 
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BRFite

Joined: 06 Nov 2002 12:31
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Location: New Delhi
Fanne ... Your comment about this being a `personal I flew and I am glorious' article is singularly misplaced. I was at a certain place at a certain time. I saw stuff which is relevant. And I posted here because this is a defence forum.

Saik ... I am on BR everyday .. like so many on this forum but I don't comment on themes or issues I am not familiar with. If I cannot make a contribution to a thread, its better for me to shut up and read what others say. Hence the low post-count.

Thanks


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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2013 18:59 
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I don't see how a separate thread on the tragedy itself be denied (wait for next tire burst in some western country in which there is exactly 1.1 causality, and see a separate thread, with all the worthies commenting with lots of RIPs). Our Dhimmitude has reached proportions that is mind blowing.
Well let me give a quiz to the BR folks, two unfortunate event happened along the same time - Blast in Bangaluru and Blast in Bostn, the causality was more on the Indian side, but boy people were falling over each other in the other thread for comments, picture, even people from Bengaluru!!
And we have 10,000 Indian dead, but repeated attempt to open a thread was discouraged, a response to that tragedy, has a thread. I think we have our prioritize right perhaps, I need to learn something.
rgds,
fanne


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PostPosted: 05 Jul 2013 19:01 
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Location: जो हिंदू हित की बात करेगा वही देश पर राज करेगा !!!
fanne wrote:
Wow!! sorry to sound a different tune, but a separate thread on Uttrakhand tragedy was not allowed, where more than 10,000 people may have died, but a personal I flew and I am glorious thread thrives. Cry Mother India, for we have become so Dhimmis that we even do not recognize it.
rgds,
fanne


Agreed Fanne ji. No you are not 'just different tune' but voice of truth right now. Sad very very sad.

IB4TL


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PostPosted: 11 Jun 2014 15:36 
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Prabhu Chawla's son, Ankur Chawla is a rising star in the 'Lutyens Delhi' Fixing game. Recently top lawyer (Salve) gifted him a BMW 7 series for a very imp job and i went on a joy ride in his car. He even invited me to watch a game in Dubai along with Ladies man from Kerala (Ex Min) from Stephens. This is post election & before the results, I politely declined to watch it with the ex min.


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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2014 09:30 
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BRFite

Joined: 04 May 2013 09:05
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Location: Strong Defense needs 500 LCA MK I, 500 LCA MK II, 1000 Arjuns I+II, 2000 Dhanush+Kalyani, 500 LCH
At some point it is good to look in the mirror, or still better to ask someone what they see. Let's be grounded here folks:

Single vendor situation - For 5th Gen aircraft we can get one today from US, Russia will deliver 15 years from today. Only other player with anything flying is China. Russia and China will both take 10 plus years to master Engine tech - no easy feat to super cruise without emptying the tank is my guess. Do we want to sport a 5th Gen plane today or 15 years from today ?

IAF will test - Yes of course. We should think highly about ourselves but honestly IAF or anyone else cannot come even close to US operational experience+tactics of using 5th Gen aircraft (for 10 plus years now). IAF will actually learn 10x more from F-35 versus Rafale or XYZ plane.

By 2025, a whole lot of countries will be flying a mature 5th Gen aircraft and will laugh their a** off when we show up with our 200 million 4.5 gen end of evolution Rafale. Japan, South Korea will be sporting F-35 and domestic stealth planes as well. To Buy Rafale because we played MMRCA for 10 years is seriously ludicrous.

It still pains that we will be paying 10 billion for these while we should have concentrated on AMCA. But someone did elect UPA in to power, so now have to pay the penalty. Just like US netizens elected Bush who ceremoniously emptied the bank - literally.


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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2014 15:37 
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Location: छिछला पानी में (In shallow waters)
I would suggest a separate thread for benefits/drawbacks of short sightedness in purchasing USA weapons just so that few other threads are not affected by it.

The topics that can be discussed there could be:
(1) How improper it is to answer one US leash (scheming with pakis) with another US leash (buying US weapons).
(2) How USA was supporting UPA (nuke deal for example) that penalized Indian projects and now USA is offering US weaponry as an answer to the Chinese threat.
(3) Why is USA not discontinuing support to Pakis, when we can otherwise uproot one of the enemies in scenario of 2-front war against Pak/Chinese; and what is need of American weapons even in smashing paki mujahids.
(4) How FGFA/PAK-FA will score in long term goals to have independent defense industry that is not enamored with US tech.
(5) Experience with USA in terms of intrusive inspection clauses

And so on and so forth.


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PostPosted: 18 Nov 2014 15:56 
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Joined: 28 Apr 2011 11:27
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The US game plan is to play India against China and Pakistan against India so that all three are bogged down and neither China or India can challenge the US in future.


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