DELETED: POSTED IN NEWBIE SECTION.

How do I delete my own post?

Admins could you please delete?

Sir, I have re posted my previous post in the newbie forum.

Sorry buddy, you can no longer delete your post after someone else has posted. Voice vote not allowed on BR.

You can, however, edit your own post and then delete the content. But, it does leave an audit trail at the bottom of your post.

Learning from our past history. Every time the political leadership of India has been defensive it has withered away. Case in point is the three defending battles at Panipat.

Just like at this critical moment in time and assuming that India politicians and political will be the same for next 50-100 years how many of you are optimistic about India.
--- edited after Vikas Raina's Quote below ---

I am saying that "will the current state of India disintegrate in next 50-100 years". Off course Indians will continue to live outside India or in "former India as Dhimmis".

Sbajwa,
The idea that is India has been there since time immorial and that idea is not going to fade away any time soon.
As far India the physical entity, there is a definate risk that we might lose some more of the periphery the way we are not preparing ourselves for wolves sitting in Bejing and Isloo sharpening their knives.
But bottomline is that I am more than hopeful that when we pass this country on to nanha-mujhahid of Gen-Z, India will be intact and in better shape.

Why be so pessimistic? India could gain more territory in the next 50-100 years too ...

Really ....why?
Do we want to make this forum more "hot air" forum by posting thread after thread with things like "xyz scenario.." "what would happen if..." "I got a wild thought...".

Wow!! Just read the implication of the bolded part. As I understand it, Webmaster Arun_S in effect is saying:



Firstly I presume that Webmaster Arun_S means R Chidambaram for RC, S K Sikka for SKS and APJ Kalam for APJK.

If the initials are indeed the people in question, then I presume that Webmaster Arun_S is saying that R Chidambaram and S K Sikka who designed India's detergent are not world class experts. I presume the disclipine of expertise is "bomb designing".

So the question to ask is is Webmaster Arun_S either:

1. Stanislaw Ulam
2. Edward Teller

or

3. Andrei Sakharov

or indeed Homi bhaba that he can casually question bomb designing skills. Because my assumption is that only an existing international class expert (whatever that means) in this very arcane area would be able to judge another international class expert (again whatever that means). Or does Webmaster Arun_S consider himself in the same company as Ulam, Teller and Sakharov?

PS: Was the original post deleted by the author?

Ldev, no where did Arun state so. Was your post intended to provoke a flame war? Lets keep the discussion to the topic. Do not attribute words unless stated so.

Jagan,

Please read the bolded part. Casual insolence towards India's scientific community has been the hallmark of this thread often hidden behind such remarks, very often posted and then withdrawn. Is this behaviour acceptable? For my part I am challenging the assumption that:



My presumption is that "anybody" who has managed to design a bum is indeed a world class expert including R Chidambaram and Sikka. Clearly nobody that I am aware off on BRF has bomb designing skills including Webmaster Arun_S. So how can he pass judgment on something as generic as who is a "world class expert".

PS: In your opinion is is allright for Arun_S to question R Chidambaram and Sikka's credentials as world class experts but not OK of us posters to question as to where Arun_S ranks himself in the bomb designing leagues?

ldev, counter the argument. Write what makes them the leaders in their field. I will certainly read it. and so will a lot of others. But "So you think you are better than them" makes a poor response.

This is not the time to needle and prick the other guy. and this goes for all sides in this discussion. I would do the same thing if Arun had questioned you on the same lines.

Jagan,

Thanks. Time permitting I will do something. And frankly, all that I am asking for is something similar from Webmaster Arun_S.

India's next lunar-landing site to be named after Bapu

Does his name have to be on everything?

It's become more than a little pretentious - like AfAms naming everything after Martin Luther King jr.

{deleted}

at least it is better than naming everything after nehru gandhi family ... thank god for small mercies

Hear, hear! And moreover, maybe the "guy's name" (tch.. tch.. he is more respected outside of our country than here) will promote international non-violent space cooperation .

may be its a personal choice, but i am not comfortable with political figures name with science discoveries. Father of nation does deserve an exception, but down the year, there would be many candidate of mother,sister, brother of nation.

Why not revisit ancient indian scientists. Brahmagupta, brahmadeva, or C.V.raman, Bose etc. its suits to reward teacher of nation.


They are saving better things for their family name..

Nice idea, and very rational, and that should take care of a few sites. Correct me if i am wrong, but won't we run out of such names quite soon? How many of our scientists (ancient/modern) are famous enough? (a serious non-sarcastic query)

BTW, anyone in the know as to what exactly happened that took Chandrayaan offline? Was it really the heat factor -- they had already raised the orbit? Any investigations from ISRO regarding this? Are these national dailies our only source of information about ISRO?

How come the ISRO scientists were not aware of the exact heat output of the moon, while at the same time they achieved monumental success in celestial mechanics through a very very precise Lunar Transfer?

Correct me if i am wrong, but won't we run out of such names quite soon?

I feel very put off by these kind of sentiments. It shows us that we haven't educated ourselves on so many innumerable personalities that have contributed so much to where we have come so far. In short. No we won't run short of names if we were to do that.

BTW, anyone in the know as to what exactly happened that took Chandrayaan offline? Was it really the heat factor -- they had already raised the orbit? Any investigations from ISRO regarding this? Are these national dailies our only source of information about ISRO?

Even if you follow this thread, as early as Nov 2008, ISRO mentioned having heat problems due to radiation. The reason being CY was operating just 100 km from the Moons surface in polar orbit. The Chinese, Japanese, Clementine missions operated from 200 kms. CY assumed radiation would cause heating till 75c. Unfortunately it was more than that. By the time they raised the orbit to reduce thermal effects, a power bus and star sensor had already failed. All this info is here and given by ISRO itself.

How come the ISRO scientists were not aware of the exact heat output of the moon, while at the same time they achieved monumental success in celestial mechanics through a very very precise Lunar Transfer?

After discovering water on the Moon, i am sure there are things the US and other space agencies do not know and/or may not share. But both the above cel mechanics and radiation monitoring of lunar surface are different fields of expertize. ISRO has learnt a lesson and it's seldom they repeat such errors.

I humbly accept that ignorant aspect of my education, and hey, it is nice to know that there are a lot of worthies in our history-line.


Thanks for the above info-- the thread has become too large to trawl and I had been out of the loop for some time. But what really is pi**ing me off is the unavailabilty of further lunar images. Why this moratorium? They did upload little somethings initially, but then a full stop. Are they playing second fiddle to NASA. Look how NASA has stolen the thunder w.r.t. water, with the international press making hardly a mention of ISRO, when in fact the MIP had detected water a lot earlier.

Indeed, look around and it's there to see how many are really worthy of recognition, but often we (me included) fail to do so. Our education system teaches us worthies are those that have the stamp of approval abroad only.

But what really is pi**ing me off is the unavailabilty of further lunar images. Why this moratorium?

I came to know there is some sort of moratorium for a year. That expires in November. I do not know what that moratorium exists but it's an agreement between ISRO and mission experiment developers/ agencies. ISRO did release many photographs and they are on the ISRO site including 2 fly by videos. Information also is being collated and will be made public once that is done. Agencies that collate the info take time and CY sent in tons of data. But ISRO is committed to making images and maps public. Thats been stated many times. Like you i also have information from open sources. Look at the Chinese program..just 3 pics of low resolution released to the public. ISRO is miles ahead in that regard. Lets give them some time. My guess in around November lots of info should start coming up. Hope that helps.

with the international press making hardly a mention of ISRO, when in fact the MIP had detected water a lot earlier.

Ok just do 2 things on Bing or Google:

Type: India discovers water on the Moon or CY finds water on moon..see how many international sites have given coverage. Almost all. While the Mapper was Browns, it was Indeed the Indian mission that did the job..

boy, how right u r ! That is one of the deepest statements in the Indian context that I have come across lately.

Brahmgupta and brahmadeva names are missing but Raman, Bose (and there is a crater named Bhabha near its rim), saha, Mitra, Sarabhai named craters are there on the moon.

Also other greats (Not necessary from current history) like Sita and Krishna..

One suggestion though - instead of just complaining why not suggest it to those who 'discover' the new features ...the guide lines are posted before at:
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=4395&p=567058&hilit=bose+saha#p567058

Namely:
Large craters: Famous deceased scientists, scholars and artists;
Small craters: Common first names.
Catenae, Dorsa, Rimae: : Feature names derived from nearby craters.
Lacus, Maria, Paludes, Sinus: Latin terms describing weather and other abstract concepts.
Montes: Terrestrial mountain ranges or nearby craters.
Rupes: Name of nearby mountain ranges (terrestrial names).
Vallis: Names derived from nearby features.


.... No reason to quibble with names like Bapu ... Heck as I mentioned before there is even a crater named 'Osama' (named because it was a common name which the discoverer liked ) on the moon

Also:

One of my favorite poet said:


Rough translation: (One may be able to count all dust particles on earth, or rain drops, or stars in the sky.. but good sons/daughters of Bharats ??? One will never run out of those. names:)

So there you have it!

My salutations to the poet -- such sentiments do swell the heart with nationalistic pride.

Cross post from Pok-II thread.

And then Tharoor will ask the same on his Twitter.. CNN-IBN/Timesnow will spend 30mins debating if the tweet was appropriate..

It is indeed a sad decision. Your contributions have been immense. You should revisit the above decision, it is okay to see once own in disagreement, it causes much frustration and angst but again are we not all argumentative Indians?

I am pi**ed off that you are finding the thread too large to trawl and are pi**ed off at ISRO for not quickly trawling through reams of data and producing quality research. Regarding the "NASA stealing the thunder" (which did not happen BTW), just go back one previous page and do the reading. You will find the answers. Unless you are pi**ed of even trawling through a page. (Sorry I am not charitable to juvenile posts like yours as other forum members are).

Perish the thought! My posts are juvenile compared those of a lot many here as my domain is entirely different, but your statement above has furthered my gratitude towards those who took time and patience to respond.

And yes, Arun_S will be missed for I had found his posts illuminating.

Hello All,

Please let us know which you think is the loudest combat aircraft you have heard.
My list is in order mentioned Su30MKI , EF, F-16IN.

Has anyone staying close to Mig25 base heard it? I wonder how those massive Tumansky turbo jets might sound

We can do many things if we have will. IAF is acting as if they have no resposibility towards production of a world class fighter. Look at the Navy. how hard they are trying to something be it subs, Air defenceship, destroyers and what not. But IAF and IA are behaving as it they are bosses of every one and can order something which have to be given to them irespective of the cost to the nation. This kind of behaviour can be seen in respect of Arjun also. We are not simply ready to try and get some weapons produced here in India. Lack of will and lack of involvment in production of weapon systoms by IAF and IA is the biggest security rrelated issue we have in long term.

It does seem that army and air force have no long term vision for the nation. They cannot think beyond contracts and commissions and do not mind keeping the country dependant on imported arms for the next fifty years. These are very strange kind of armed forces officers who do not want to produce their own arms. In no other country is this kind of behaviour seen by the armed forces. What do we call these Indian officers? A cadre of compulsive shoppers of imported goods? This shows they have absolutely no vision of dominating Asia and expanding their military influence beyond India.

Cool down my friend...!!!

IMHO its time to privatize HAL and others. Trust the TATA's, Godrej's and L&T's to do a better job....extend to all defence PSU's...create a list of friendly countries that these companies can sell their vares to;allow them to collaborate with anyone they want...Israeli companies,The French, US co's, swedes, Europeans, mig, sukhoi etc etc and pull back..define specs, buy from the private Indian industry what meets our needs and move on...this is needed if we need our own EADS, Lockheed, Boing, Sukhoi, IAI and the like..The way US runs defence seems to be a good idea...retain DRDO though...make them semi private with govt calling the shots in directing research along national priorities but allowing them to sell tech to Indian defence companies .....

Well is it in the IA or IAF doctrine to dominate Asia ?

It is the political elite who decide the Vision for military in India and or military itself ?

No other country is as Democratic and its military leadership as downgraded in the overall protocol of seniority ? We are in a country where 3 service chiefs hardly have any say on national security decisions and their opinion or recommendations are sidelined in favor of alliance politics!!!

"What is to be bought finally" is decided by babus and politicians not Military officers... as users of equipment they can only pen down their requirement, test the various equipment and give their remarks!!! final decision is not in their hands!!

Chill down Karthik! You do not have to take the high seat of calling someones comments as garbage and 'XXXXing'.

The point here is that can we push the IOC and FOC dates with an expectation that LCA initally runs on Ge 404? If the uncertainitiy of engine is taken out of the equation, what else is preventing to expand the testign envelop at higher pace and acheive the IOC early.

Admins - I requst you to take note of this bad language and issue warnings.....

The issue that had Kartik riled up has been raised and discussed to death repeatedly and would drive a regular reader/follower of this thread insane. I would suggest you let constructive members like Kartik who have been regulars at BR and have contributed to the wealth of knowledge have some lattitude when it comes to old issues being rehashed. Eventually, ppl need to start searching before posting or asking; it is counter productive to go back to square one every so many pages with the same flawed logic only to reach the same conclusion. I would recommend reading before posting to prevent a repeat performance, Kartik is not to be blamed for being frustrated at this.
Considering your post count, I would suggest you contribute constructively rather than run to the headmaster at the drop of a hat without knowing the background. BRAdmins are fairly proactive in anycase.

Moreover, as an answer to your question...would you trust a car I build in my backyard using a M800 engine just because millions of ppl have tested the engine?

[url]No separate visas, India tells China[/url]

I have nothing against any religion or any religious individual/ icon.

You claim that I should observe my tone and language when I wonder loudly about the Indic laurels. I presume the same analogy could be applied to the posts that allude to the alleged shenanigans committed by the so called Abrahamic faiths. It takes two to tango as they say.

Any act that destabilises India, I will confess, upsets me. Religion has become a flashpoint in our country and is being cashed on to create greater societal schisms. Evangelism and more so through fraud and allurement is hard to accept since that is not being true to oneself. But then, one should not take law into one’s hand.

While I do not have the first hand knowledge of the Kandhamal incident, I am left bewildered as to how BJP lost in Orissa is such a dismal manner. Yet, why was the Sant killed in the first place and why did the State machinery not ensure that there was harmony so that the Sant was not killed that unleashed the mayhem? Why did the nun who claims to have been raped not ordered to depose (which she did as if doing a favour)? The mess we are in is not the fault of any Abrahamic skulduggery. It is our own making.

I find the escapism of blaming everyone and every other faith for our own fault very frustrating. If the laws were firm and it was firmly implemented then such skulduggery would not have occurred! Even if one takes that the Missionaries of Charity are doing great work as correct, one should see that behind the great work there lies the harvesting of souls too! Nothing wrong. Good work. Why the Dickens can the Hindus not also harvest the souls instead of talking of the glorious Indic past? If the past was glorious, let us keep the present glorious too. Why lament and fret and fume here on this forum. All talk and little action! I have many a time spoken of the Bharat Seva Ashram’s work. Take a leaf off their book and those who feel that they must get their act together must get cracking rather than lamenting or indulging in their glorious past!

The IA obeys the GOI directive. But the internal ethos and traditions are not ordered by the GOI. It is totally an Indian Army prerogative. If one were to emulate the general societal precedence, then things would be different. It is already affecting. Because of old traditions none questions orders and hence obeys them. If the IA is not holding the country as One, why call them in when the walls crumble? Be it a natural calamity, riots, law and order or public services collapsing, the Army is called in! In Calcutta when the garbage chaps went on strike, it was the Army which was called in! So, please, will all due regards, I cannot accept your contention that we are trumpeting our deeds. They are there for all to see. Policing or bringing order is not the Army’s job. It is that of the Police and the paramilitary. So, what have you to say of that?

If the GOI wants to sell the country, unlike Pakistani Army, the Army will have to accept it. However, we have faith in the GOI that nothing as foolish as that would be done. When Siachen was to be demilitarised as per the Govt’s indicating after the Havana Meet, the IA prevailed upon the Govt that it would be catastrophic and the GOI recanted! Let us not think that the Govt is staffed in the Cabinet by stupid people!

Of course the police force requires kudos. They are ill trained, ill equipped etc etc and yet they function! Who is responsible for their training and equipment? Is training not a command responsibility? Is being ill trained and ill equipped a badge of great efficiency? The IA is ill equipped but not ill trained. Who is responsible? The IA hierarchy right from the Havildar upwards. Is it a crime to be well trained even if deprived of good equipment? Indian Army is also exposed to societal changes and pressures.

I respect your love for Baba Ramdev, but yesterday in We the People, a Muslim youth won my heart when he said that he would sing Vande Mataram without any qualms since it was a part of India, his country’s heritage. He was a brave boy and Bukhari pounced on him but was stopped in his track. There are many like this Muslim youth, let us not scare them back into their shell. Baba Ramdev was also on this show and he came out as a damp squib! I am not aware of Ramdev’s strategy, but this much I know, one should have no truck with forces than spawn organisations like SIMI. I wonder if you have heard of the Tablighi Jamaat, which follows the Deoband instructions. They have penetrated Europe and the US. Check the Hadley case!

No one has asked you to quit BRF. I have only indicated most politely to Pullikeshi that none has coerced us to join BRF and we are free to quit. Have I told you so? As I have no time to wade through all the posts, do indicate where I asked you to quit!