Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

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Carl_T
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Carl_T »

But if we separate Ladakh from Kashmir, we vastly reduce the area we give "special" rights to. That way Ladakh isn't dominated by Srinagar.
Anujan
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Anujan »

Carl_T wrote:But if we separate Ladakh from Kashmir, we vastly reduce the area we give "special" rights to. That way Ladakh isn't dominated by Srinagar.
Yes but think what will happen if you keep shrinking the land area (and removing the regions which are friendly) where the law that outsiders cannot hold property/Be given government jobs applies. And you end up with a land area whose entire population is inimical to India and the laws there give them massive autonomy.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Prem »

Dividing the sate will be most foolish as Non Jihadi majority require this danda for various reasons. Its helps greatley in bulding , maintaing democratic process in state. Dividing the state , listening to Jihadi Muslims, self appointed Indians scholars showering free advises to Indians etc are all part of the one and same con package , snake oil being constantly peddled under false assumptions. at least we know BR dont fall for it. Here is interesting news.
http://www.longwarjournal.org/threat-ma ... ound_i.php
Missing ex-ISI officers found in North Waziristan?
appears the mystery behind the missing former officers from Pakistan's Inter-Services Intelligence agency who have close ties to the Taliban and al Qaeda has been solved. Colonel Imam, the father of the Taliban, and Khalid Khawaja, the Taliban's "consigliere," appear to have surfaced in North Waziristan and are in the care of South Waziristan Taliban supremo Waliur Rehman Mehsud. From The News:
The Taliban commander, who called The News from an undisclosed location, said Col Imam and his colleagues had spent a night with them in Mir Ali and interviewed Waliur Rehman. The next day, the commander said, the team left for the nearby South Waziristan under Taliban escort where they were still busy in their work. He dispelled rumours that Col Imam and his colleagues could have been kidnapped and were still missing.
“They trusted us and our people took them to our strongholds in South Waziristan where they are staying with us as guests,” the Taliban commander explained. He said their visit to Waziristan was planned and Taliban commanders were waiting for their arrival in Mir Ali. He said they knew Col Imam and his men were making a documentary for a foreign news channel and they happily consented to help them in their job as the Pakistani media had stopped covering their activities..
Read
more:
thre
Carl_T
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Carl_T »

Anujan wrote:
Carl_T wrote:But if we separate Ladakh from Kashmir, we vastly reduce the area we give "special" rights to. That way Ladakh isn't dominated by Srinagar.
Yes but think what will happen if you keep shrinking the land area (and removing the regions which are friendly) where the law that outsiders cannot hold property/Be given government jobs applies. And you end up with a land area whose entire population is inimical to India and the laws there give them massive autonomy.

I'm not sure I follow, how will we end up with a land area with a population inimical to India? I think by breaking it up, we could isolate the separatist areas into a small section, while other places like Jammu and Ladakh can have their special rights removed.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by vijayk »

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/04/1 ... 33010.html
The recent capture of the Afghan Taliban's second in command seemed to signal a turning point in Pakistan, an indication that its intelligence agency had gone from providing help to cracking down on the militant Islamist group.

But U.S. officials now believe that even as Pakistani security forces worked with American counterparts to detain Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar and other insurgents, the country's Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, or ISI, quietly freed at least two senior Afghan Taliban figures it had captured on its own.
Ha Ha Ha... The bozo in the White House got duped again.... Will these morons Obama and idiots like John Kerry will ever learn? Do they have any thing between their ears?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Guddu »

Gerard wrote:The Indian state has no intention of ceding Kashmir to Pakistan hence no need to divide up the state.
Nothing in the decades since partition suggests that India is willing to cede any territory or remove its army from anywhere. The pockets of lands in adverse possession on the Indo-Bangla (formerly Pakistan) border remain so. Even a simple matter like Sir Creek has not been settled.
I remember MMS speaking to Farid Zakaria, during MMS's visit to the USA. Dont recall the exact words, but MMS was despondent and not sure, if India would remain intact in the future. This statement has remained stuck in my memory as the only notable point of the entire interview.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

CRamS wrote:The west always creates these fictions to suit their interests.
Secular means separation of church affairs and state. The meaning of church has been extended to religion as in "separation of religious affairs and state."

Religion means the worship of the one God that there is and living one's life by the one book, Secularism means acceptance that The book may vary.

Under no circumstances can religion encompass uncivilised worshippers of animals, trees, earth, wind, fire and stone. Those people have not yet seen the light. Their appearance of secularism is the secularism of ignorance, unlike the JKLF secularism referred to earlier.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

CRamS wrote: MMS will have basically signed off surrender of Kashmir in slow motion, even as he walks down the Nobel aisle in Stockholm.
CRamS - for the sake of satya - let us assume that at least one half of the story is that Manmohan Singh is a traitor waiting to sign off Kashmir (although I personally believe there is a huge element of Americanitis in this because an Indian PM just does not have the executive powers of a US President although they are consistently equated here,)

That leaves behind at least one other possibility that MMS cannot sign off Kashmir even after walking down the Nobel aisle and adding a piffling half million or so Krona to the 15000 crores already amassed by near and dear ones.

One classic method of negotiation by all Indian political entities is to agree to anything subject to the requirement that the "people have to accept it". This enables the politician to say just about anything and yet hide behind the niqab of "people's mandate". So the story at the very least is less simple that can be made out by the introduction of one greedy traitor.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Gerard »

That leaves behind at least one other possibility that MMS cannot sign off Kashmir even after walking down the Nobel aisle and adding a piffling half million or so Krona to the 15000 crores already amassed by near and dear ones.
You're forgetting the 1 million USD for capping and rolling back India's nukes. The nuke deal was the ultimate sellout. Now there are IAEA and US inspectors running all over India looking for Plutonium inside people's kitchens. They harass everybody. Every gram of yellowcake produced is being counted. There are IAEA seals on the launch tubes of the Arihant and their inspectors have quarters inside IAF airbases. There is a special US team inside DRDO that makes sure missiles are armed only with paan. To add insult to injury, the US marines control Pokran test range. India, which used to test nuclear bombs every other Friday, hasn't been able to test since MMS signed.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by CRamS »

I don't think MMS cares too much for the Nobel even though it might very well be conferred on him should he make joint love with TSP in Srinagar. Nor is he someone corrupt to sell India's interests for personla gain. Its something more deeper than that. Its his conviction and vision of where he'd like to see India. Thats what troubles and scare me me from his behavior and posture so far.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

CRamS wrote:I don't think MMS cares too much for the Nobel even though it might very well be conferred on him should he make joint love with TSP in Srinagar. Nor is he someone corrupt to sell India's interests for personla gain. Its something more deeper than that. Its his conviction and vision of where he'd like to see India. Thats what troubles and scare me me from his behavior and posture so far.

Let me not reach judgement whether your feelings or MMS's purported feelings are wrong or right.

I met an old friend recently. This person is known to MMS's family and was was telling me about a Sikh relative in Canada who needed a kidney. Apparently the place to go for kidneys is Pakistan (If you are in Canada maybe). Shortly before the money exchanged hands (you won't believe this) human rights groups in Pakistan agitated and put a spoke in the idea of Pakis being forced to sell kidneys for money.

So the plan to go to "Pakistan proper" to buy a kidney was dashed. Instead an alternative offer was made to have a transplant in Pakistan occupied Kashmir. This was agreed to, the money paid and the transplant done in a shockingly deficient place - literally a house converted to have a couple of operating theaters and rooms. A few days after the operation human rights groups got wind of this and arranged to storm the house. The patient and a couple of relatives had to literally scale a wall to jump over and escape, after which they made their way to Lahore where they stayed with relatives who were basically Sikhs who had been forced to convert and are Pakis now. Using their "good offices" the patient and his relatives were able to enter India via the Wagah border. The patient is well now and still sends money from Canada to the donor in PoK.

I want to make a rhetorical point here. I have a dozen relatives and friends who consistently put US interests above Indian interests because their sons, sisters, brothers or other relatives are in the US and their house, belongings and lifestyle was made because of those relatives and the US connection. Many have green cards but live in india These people are as much traitors to India as anyone who has relatives in Pakistan and wishes to see peace. India has lots of people with lots of interests. What you and I describe as patriotism does not exactly conform with what others feel on the issue.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Jaspreet »

Quote from the MMS statement linked to above:
Indian Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh has once again reiterated that as far he is concerned, there is no question of New Delhi redrawing the international boundary that separates Indian Kashmir and Pakistan Kashmir.
Isn't this a negation of the unanimous resolution passed by Indian parliament in 1994 that the whole of J&K belongs to India?
Also, the line between Indian Kashmir and Pak Kashmir is not an international boundary, it's only a line of control.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by CRamS »

My apologies of this report and CIA, ISI collaboration to get Afghan Taliban was posted before. But if what is reprted is true, namely, even CIA is not sure whether to trust its all-lie when it comes to Afghan Taliban, I wonder what it says about ISI relationship with LET "non state actors". Not that we don't know :-).
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Virupaksha »

Kaboom
Last edited by Virupaksha on 11 Apr 2010 07:07, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by ramana »

Carl_T wrote:If Pakistan separates Gilgit from Kashmir, why don't we separate Ladakh from Kashmir? Other than the fact it is politically impossible I suppose.

Carl_T that would confirm the two nation theory that TSP embodies. The whole secular image of India is based on the reality of Indians:Hindus (yes people don't like to admit that), Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, Buddhists and Jains all live together. Detaching Ladakh is against that principle.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

Jaspreet wrote:Quote from the MMS statement linked to above:
Indian Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh has once again reiterated that as far he is concerned, there is no question of New Delhi redrawing the international boundary that separates Indian Kashmir and Pakistan Kashmir.
Isn't this a negation of the unanimous resolution passed by Indian parliament in 1994 that the whole of J&K belongs to India?
Also, the line between Indian Kashmir and Pak Kashmir is not an international boundary, it's only a line of control.
Simla agreement
http://www.stimson.org/southasia/?sn=sa20020114291
(ii) In Jammu and Kashmir the line of control resulting from the cease-fire of December 17, 1971 shall be respected by both sides without prejudice to the recognized position of either side. Neither side shall seek to alter it unilaterally irrespective of mutual differences and legal interpretations. Both sides further undertake to refrain from the threat or the use of force in violation of this line.
Also see Lahoer declaration
http://cns.miis.edu/inventory/pdfs/aptlahore.pdf
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by CRamS »

Jaspreet wrote:Quote from the MMS statement linked to above:
Indian Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh has once again reiterated that as far he is concerned, there is no question of New Delhi redrawing the international boundary that separates Indian Kashmir and Pakistan Kashmir.
Isn't this a negation of the unanimous resolution passed by Indian parliament in 1994 that the whole of J&K belongs to India?
Also, the line between Indian Kashmir and Pak Kashmir is not an international boundary, it's only a line of control.
So thats interesting, so when MMS says boundary, he means LOC. I might anger a lot of forumites, but as far as I am concerned, given that India is having such a torrid time holding on to the valley, forget getting back POK, I'd say MMS is a Bharat Ratna if he can pull off LOC == IB. Not the LOC+ or LOC++, joint love-making crap etc.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

ravi_ku wrote:Shiv,

AFAIK none of those mentioned in your captivating story are PMs of India. When they become one or atleast in a position to become one, let us talk about them.
Yes but citizens of India become PMs and some of them love Pakistan more and some of them love the US more. It is worth remembering that rather than virtually burying one's head to facts about India and living in fantasy-land.

The idea of postponing talk till they become PMs is a transparent and desperate attempt at avoiding a fact that cannot actually be avoided. It only postpones the current argument but does not make the problem go away.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by ramana »

Jaspreet wrote:Quote from the MMS statement linked to above:
Indian Prime Minister Dr Manmohan Singh has once again reiterated that as far he is concerned, there is no question of New Delhi redrawing the international boundary that separates Indian Kashmir and Pakistan Kashmir.
Isn't this a negation of the unanimous resolution passed by Indian parliament in 1994 that the whole of J&K belongs to India?
Also, the line between Indian Kashmir and Pak Kashmir is not an international boundary, it's only a line of control.

Jaspreet, Are you referring to the highlighted the words? IOW International boundary vs Line of control?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Virupaksha »

shiv wrote:
ravi_ku wrote:Shiv,

AFAIK none of those mentioned in your captivating story are PMs of India. When they become one or atleast in a position to become one, let us talk about them.
Yes but citizens of India become PMs and some of them love Pakistan more and some of them love the US more. It is worth remembering that rather than virtually burying one's head to facts about India and living in fantasy-land.

The idea of postponing talk till they become PMs is a transparent and desperate attempt at avoiding a fact that cannot actually be avoided. It only postpones the current argument but does not make the problem go away.
so the PM having some idea about how India is equivalent to what a strayman in India has! is this your line of argument? :roll:

and me saying that they are not equivalent is burying my head in the sand!! :shock:
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Prem »

CRAm, Shiv and Janab Jaspreet Jee,
There is a Punjabi saying , very much in villages.. "pancha dhi arai ser matthe te par parnala (drain) otthe da otthe ".
Its like politely saying/telling STFU, i will do what i plan to do and nothing will change my mind. Agree to all the arguments, pleas , jaffees and Puppies but nothing gonna amend nothing. Paki know this but they still hope and live in their own make believe.

There is story in Panchtantra about big stud ox and the fox following him for years in hope to take grab of Bull's delicacy mistaken as ripe low hanging fruit.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

ravi_ku wrote: so the PM having some idea about how India is equivalent to what a strayman in India has! is this your line of argument? :roll:

and me saying that they are not equivalent is burying my head in the sand!! :shock:
Not my line of argument alone sir. A lot of people on this forum point out how our PM loves Pakistan and/or the US. I am only saying that he represents thousands of ordinary Indians who also love Pakistan and/or the US. One possibility about a person who fails to recognize what seems to be a plain and obvious fact such as this is that he lives in fantasyland and has his head buried in the sand.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Pranav »

shiv wrote: I have a dozen relatives and friends who consistently put US interests above Indian interests ....

Not my line of argument alone sir. A lot of people on this forum point out how our PM loves Pakistan and/or the US. I am only saying that he represents thousands of ordinary Indians who also love Pakistan and/or the US. One possibility about a person who fails to recognize what seems to be a plain and obvious fact such as this is that he lives in fantasyland and has his head buried in the sand.
What percentage of India's 1.1 billion population put the interests of a foreign country above the interests of their own country?

Should such people be allowed to become Prime Ministers of India?
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Virupaksha »

shiv wrote: Not my line of argument alone sir. A lot of people on this forum point out how our PM loves Pakistan and/or the US. I am only saying that he represents thousands of ordinary Indians who also love Pakistan and/or the US. One possibility about a person who fails to recognize what seems to be a plain and obvious fact such as this is that he lives in fantasyland and has his head buried in the sand.
Shiv,

It doesnt matter if I like/dislike US/Pakistan/timbaktoo. Those thousands of ordinary Indians who also love Pakistan, Alqaeda, Hafiz Saeed, US, Bush, Obama, Chavez dont matter. These thousands have the same amount of influence on the Indian state as I have, i.e. zilch, nada. Even if they have influence, their influence combined is not even 10% of influence which MMS can weild on the Indian state.

The PM of India is a different kettle of soup altogether. Equating an ordinary Indian like me/others loving xyz with the one on PMs post IS fantasyland.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

ravi_ku wrote:. These thousands have the same amount of influence on the Indian state as I have, i.e. zilch, nada.
Speak for yourself sir. In India these Indians are called voters and they do not live in fantasyland. They live in constituencies and have a real effect on what happens at the top.

It is only those with zero influence who have the biggest reason to complain and they are truly powerless until they are able to find a way of expressing their opinion with political clout.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Virupaksha »

Because according to you, I am also a voter, yippie I have as much influence on the state as MMS :rotfl:

Now where can I get my lalbatti gaadi :((
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by Pranav »

Allah-o-Akbar! This pious thread is ready for its heavenly reward!
Last edited by Pranav on 11 Apr 2010 09:12, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by arun »

X Posted. The duplicitious track record of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan regards jihadi Islamic terrorism continues. The Pakistan military’s intelligence agency, ISI has quietly released captured senior Afghan Taliban

The Washington post citing anonymous U.S. military and intelligence officials who consider this release as “evidence that parts of Pakistan's security establishment continue to support the Afghan Taliban”:
U.S. officials say Pakistani spy agency released Afghan Taliban insurgents

By Greg Miller
Washington Post Staff Writer
Saturday, April 10, 2010; 11:36 PM

The recent capture of the Afghan Taliban's second in command seemed to signal a turning point in Pakistan, an indication that its intelligence agency had gone from helping to cracking down on the militant Islamist group.

But U.S. officials now believe that even as Pakistan's security forces worked with their American counterparts to detain Mullah Abdul Ghani Baradar and other insurgents, the country's Inter-Services Intelligence directorate, or ISI, quietly freed at least two senior Afghan Taliban figures it had captured on its own.

U.S. military and intelligence officials said the releases, detected by American spy agencies but not publicly disclosed, are evidence that parts of Pakistan's security establishment continue to support the Afghan Taliban. …………………..

Washington Post
When it comes to dealing with the Islamic Republic of Pakistan it is good to recollect what former Taliban era Afghan Ambassador to the Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Mullah Abdul Salam Zaeef had to say about Pakistan in his book “My Life With The Taliban”:
“Pakistan, which plays a key role in Asia, is so famous for treachery that it is said they can get milk from a bull. They have two tongues in one mouth, and two faces on one head so they can speak everybody’s language; they use everybody, deceive everybody. They deceive the Arabs under the guise of Islamic nuclear power, they milk America and Europe in the alliance against terrorism, and they have been deceiving Pakistani and other Muslims around the world in the name of the Kashmiri jihad.”

Outlook
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

K Mehta wrote: Interesting so many international entities leaving bakistan. Singapore airlines, and now this! also UN closed its offices for some time. Some terror intel has come to these entities I think!
Many of these businesses are like the proverbial well heeled brothel customer who hears of a new brothel and makes it his current favorite hangout. But when he finds out that the seemingly attractive whores have the clap and the police are busting the pimp they opt out.

Here is a quote from the news item:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142 ... theadlines
Wall Street banks began to dip their toes in to Pakistan's equity market in late 2006 after the economy had grown by an average of 7% for a number of years, fueled by liberalization of the banking sector and a consumer spending boom.
In late 2006, Pakistan's state-owned Oil and Gas Development Co. Ltd. raised over $800 million through a listing in London of 10% of its shares – the largest initial public offering of a Pakistan company in over a decade. Foreign investors poured $2.3 billion in to the Karachi Stock Exchange in the fiscal year ended June 2007, more than six times higher than the previous year, according to central bank statistics.
But Pakistan's economy began to unravel in 2008 causing runaway inflation and a growing current account deficit. The country, which is reliant on expensive imported oil, started to face regular electricity shortages which further clouded the economic picture. The resignation of former President Pervez Musharraf in August 2008 further spooked investors.
It appears that money invested by the US in Pakistan has been used to fund a scam that raised stock prices and then someone has scalped someone else - causing this downhill skiing.

But if the money flows again - these guys will be back.
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Re: Terrorist Islamic Republic of Pakistan (TSP), Feb. 26, 2010

Post by shiv »

ravi_ku wrote:Because according to you, I am also a voter, yippie I have as much influence on the state as MMS :rotfl:

Now where can I get my lalbatti gaadi :((

No. You misread me. My reference to you was in the following sentence
It is only those with zero influence who have the biggest reason to complain and they are truly powerless until they are able to find a way of expressing their opinion with political clout.
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