Lets make a 15 year R&D plan

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vic
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Joined: 19 May 2010 10:00

Lets make a 15 year R&D plan

Post by vic »

I am trying to write a essay on “my” perspective to 15 year development plan of all services, paramilitary, central forces & intelligence. I will slowly improve on it with your assistance. So flame away.
vic
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Re: Lets make a 15 year R&D plan

Post by vic »

I believe that DRDO has done a commendable job within the limited Budget but the artificial limits to the budget means that our overall defense R&D and production is dismal. Compare with China which has reportedly 3 times our budget and percentage of R&D in that budget is also 3 times higher giving it ten times the advantage. The fact that GoI babudom has been a failure in any major technology development even in commercial areas like Power generation (massive imports from China or screw driver technology), Telecom generation (again massive imports from China or screw driver technology), Railway new locomotives or wagons (imports or crew driver). Therefore, I suggest massive budget increase something like;-

DRDO = Rs. 15,000 crore
ISRO and BARC = Rs. 2000 crore each for developing conventional military technology as they have scientific base and labs = Rs. 4000 crore
PSU & OFB = Rs. 2000 crore each for developing conventional military technology as they have production base and labs = Rs. 4000 crore
Pvt Sector Ratnas and small sector = Rs. 2000 crore each for developing conventional military technology as they are quick on their feet = Rs. 4000 crore
Academic institutions = say Rs. 2000 crore for defense related R&D

Further, major organizations should be given budgets for assigning to R&D only so that they are forced to mandate indigenous development.

Army + RR
Airforce
Navy + Coast Guard
Central Para Military + Police forces
Central Intelligence & Investigation agencies

Say again Rs. 2000 crore each totaling Rs. 5x2000 crore = Rs. 10,000 crore.

The aim should be raise the inflation adjusted defense R&D budget to Rs. 30,000-40,000 crore per annum in next 5 years. Let me give an idea that Oil subsidy is around Rs. 80,000 crore today. The budget for commonwealth “waste of money games” is around Rs. 15,000 crore. So this amounts for R&D budget is minimum possible and within our means.

Simultaneously we must develop a full range of military products and should not ignore bread and butter projects. I intend to slowly develop a list of possible aims/items. The basic principles would be :-

Technology Absorption- (1)I have never understood that why are we not more proactive in hiring experts & retired people from western nations to aid in our R& D programmes.
(2)Also we should take full aid of JV for fast development. But JV should not be a camouflage to disguise a “Sale” like Brahmos and Maitri missile projects.
(3)Thirdly due to idiotic accounting principles we don’t take technology even if it offered at a price. You guys will be amazed to know that principle adopted by Mod is
Total value for import of production units = Total value of tech t/f fees + capital investment + indigenous production
This completely ignores the value of offshoots. Let me explain :-

Total value of 140 Su-30MKI is 140x30= US$ 4.2 Billion

So morons also called Mod will say total cost of tech t/f fees + capital investment + indigenous production line + 140 indigenous Su-30MKIs should be US $ 4.2 Billion less 10% = US$ 3.8 Billion

It means that it is not economically feasible for setting up production lines and everything is imported and assembled with a screw driver. If commercial products can get protection of import duty then the same principle should be applied to defense production like Total value for import of production units = Twice the Total value of tech t/f fees + capital investment + indigenous production for normal products and upto 5 times for technologically important projects. For instance Eurojet is offering transfer of Single Crystal technology for a price. The value of this technology cannot be evaluated on the basis of 99 engines required to be imported but on the basis of value to the whole of Indian defense and commercial production.
(4)DPP of 30% should be increased to 50% and should include life cycle costs of spare parts also.

(5)PSUs should be liberally given money to absorb technology. BEL has been asking for Rs. 500 crore to set up thermal imagers production plant (including sensor array) but is not been allocated the budget for one decade as they are supposed to do it “commercially”.
(6) Also when we tie up for long duration imports then we should build in joint R&D and technology transfer for future generation also like in case of Shakti engine (Though in Shakti engine has the right spirit but import content is very high while indigenization is slow and low)
(7) The aim of the import and evaluation of the proposals should have “main aim” of technology transfer and absorption of present and future items rather than petty fogging on cost and Lowest tender.

Adequate Budget – This long continuing attitude of assigning budgets around 1/10th of international norms is getting us nowhere. Assign right budget and Babus should not have heart attacks when DRDO tells the real budget. Like budget for PAKFA is US$ 12 Billion while for MCA it is US$ 1 Billion. What nonsense!

The principles of Defense Production and R& D should be :-

Reverse Engineering – it should be primarily spearheaded by OFB/PSU in guidance of DRDO. The idea should be speed. The improvement aspect should come with next batch. Like reverse engineering of Anti-material rifle by OFB from South African model

Upgrades – ALL products should be earmarked for upgrades and not allowed to become obsolete to prevent last minute knee jerk imports. Like BMP-2 should be upgraded (present suggested upgrade is like an import). So we should immediately mandate various R&D labs for upgrading subcomponents like engines, sights, armor etc.

Evolutionary products – DRDO should spear head evolutionary products with strict time schedule. Like Abhay IFV is a evolutionary product (present suggested upgrade is like an import). So we should immediately mandate various R&D labs for developing new sub components like engines, sights, armor etc.

Revolutionary technology – Like FMBT or hypersonic aircraft/space ships, just give it time and money and hope for the best

Fundamental research – Plan for the future now

My list of defense products that should be sanctioned now. I will start with small arms and then move on. As everybody is going for developing fancy cutting edge technology but it seems that Army or the MoD is not interested in mandating DRDO to develop small arms requirements of India for almost 3 million military and para military forces also for forces of friendly small neighbors who are depending of Chinese or Pakistani weapons. Just see:-

Pistol – no new development attempted even as FN35 if getting long in tooth. Generally Glock or Sigs are imported. Why not reverse engineer, say H&K USP?

9mm SMG - no new development attempted even as Sterling (incorrectly called Sten gun) is obsolete. Generally MP5s or Uzi are imported. Why not use MSMC as basis to make a 9mm SMG also?

9mm silenced /suppressed SMG - no new development attempted even as Sterling (incorrectly called Sten gun) is obsolete. Generally silenced Uzi are imported. Why not use MSMC as basis to make a silenced 9mm SMG also?

5.56mm carbine – no new development attempted after failure of INSAS carbine which may be due to unsuitable ammo. No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not reverse engineer HK-416 or Sig?

5.56mm rifle – no new development attempted after INSAS. No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not reverse engineer HK-416 or Sig? It seems that Army has gone a step ahead and actually barred DRDO to even attempt developing a new indigenous rifle

5.56mm LMG – no new development attempted after INSAS. No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports calling it IAR! Why not reverse engineer HK-416?

7.62mm rifle – no new development attempted after Isapore. No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports calling it amphibious rifle? Why not reverse engineer HK-417 or Sig?

7.62mm silenced /suppressed rifle – no new development attempted?

We should also manufacture bullpub variants of 5.56mm and 7.62 mm rifles as our requirements will continue to be large and variant of similar mass produced conventional rifle will give economy of scale.

7.62 light GPMG - No attempt for development say by modifying GMAG, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not use GMAG as a basis to develop a new light 7.62mm GPMG or reverse engineer Mk-48?

HMG - No attempt for development say by modifying Kord, so Army has issued request for imports!

Sniper rifles - No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not use INSAS action or bolt action OFB rifles as basis to develop a new Sniper rifle or just reverse engineer HK-417 or SCAR?

Sniper silenced /suppressed rifles - No new attempt,!

Anti material rifles - No new attempt after indigenous attempt was called heavy, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not reverse engineer Gepard-2?

RPG - No attempt, so Army has issued request for imports! Army has already imported from Israel, Russia, Spain and South Africa. Why not reverse engineer Israeli RPGs using Milan as tech base, i.e. Milan missile less the guidance system? Note Carl Gastaf is not RPG, it is RCL
RCL
- While there are reports of new launcher developed by DRDO but what about new range of Ammo for Carl Gustafs? Till recently it was being imported.

AGL- No new attempt, so Army has issued request for imports! Why not reverse engineer Russian AGLs?
Shot guns
- present one seems adequate but now focus should shift for new indigenous development before somebody in Army decides to issue RFI/RFP for import.

Note each of the above small arms would require around Rs. 10 crore to Rs. crore budget to develop or reverse engineer well within the powers of Army Chief to sanction. Note INSAS needed only Rs. 4 crore to develop. Time line to reverse engineer should be around One year. Also almost all designs are more than 10-20 years old so no IPR restrictions
Extract of Glock story from wiki. Note Glock had never manufactured any small arms let alone pistols

Glock became aware of the Army's planned procurement and in 1982 assembled a team of Europe's leading handgun experts from military, police and civilian sport shooting circles to define the most desirable characteristics in a combat pistol.[4] Within just three months, Glock developed a working prototype.[6] The new weapon made extensive use of synthetic materials and modern manufacturing technologies in its design, making it a very cost-effective candidate. Several samples of the 9x19mm Glock 17 (so named because it was the 17th patent of the company) were submitted for assessment trials in early 1982, and after passing all of the exhaustive endurance and abuse tests, Glock emerged as the winner with the Model 17

It is interesting that small nations like Israel, Singpare, South Korea are leaving India behind while we are still into Dil mange more import!
Sights for small arms
- There is massive move in the world to go in for holographic sights, red dot lasers, IR illuminators, IR pointers, optical sights, supersonic suppressors but there is no coordinated attempt for their adoption and production in India except for some sporadic R&D by DRDO. There are only some ad-hoc RFI/RFP for imports. Why? Army sleeping on the wheel like bolt action & SLR debate prior to 1962? Note the intent to manufacture holographic sights in India is being debated since 1980s to no avail.
Binoculars & periscope sights

IT and IR night sights - Also as aforesaid BEL is indulging in screw driver technology in for IT and IR sights even though current requirements span thousands of crores per annum.

Going forward:-

120mm mortar- indigenous attempt rejected. Why? Why not try again using titanium to lower weight? The revolutionary design would be use composites which is being experimented in USA.

105mm IFG/LFG- The whole hype of single caliber 155mm artillery gun is misplaced as is also being realized in western armies. 105mm cannon will continue to be relevant to mountainous areas. A modern aluminum and titanium light 105mm howitzer would weight only around 1 to 1.5 tons and very relevant for Indian needs.

155mm guns – story is folklore. Instead of importing, why not tie-up say with BAE or Nexter to develop indigenous variants rather than importing an mélange of different designs? Parliamentary committee as repeatedly asked Army to work with DRDO for indigenous guns but to no avail. I suggest JV with BAE or Nexter or Reinmetal for single gun in many variants rather than present attempt for mishmash of lot of imports.

New Anti Aircraft gun – imports recommended! I suggest JV with BAE or Nexter or Reinmetal to develop a 40mm light revolver cannon to use the ammo of our Bofors 40mm.

New 20mm rotary for helo & aircrafts – Presently Imported from Nexter. I suggest JV with BAE or Nexter or Reinmetal for single gun in many variants for helos and aircrafts in 20mm and other relevant calibers.

76mm and 127mm naval guns – License assembly by BHEL? Why the hell BHEL? Anyway mandate BHEL to develop a future variant, say 155mm in titanium which will force it to learn the technology and also indigenization level should be full 100% for huge contract of around Rs. 3000 crore given to BHEL

AK-630mm naval Gatling – license assembly, I think we should develop another new gun to co-ordinate with new AA gun and also upgrade AK-630 to better standards say with in titanium. This will force OFB to actually learn the technology involved and it should be mandated to increase indigenization to 100%.

Tanks – Hope Arjun is not derailed. Develop light tank based on Abhay

Tracked AFVs – Productionize Abhay

Wheeled AFVs/IFVS- Mandate TATAs to develop an indigenous wheeled 6x6 and 8x8 AFV/IFV based on their range of vehicles
Jeeps, special terrain vehicles, MPVs- I think that we are going in right direction
BPJs and High altitude clothing - I think that we are going in right direction but we need to hurry up indigenous High altitude clothing and set up plants for kelvar for BPJs

Pinaka 1 & 2 - I think that we are going in right direction but we need Pinaka -3 as something the equivalent of ATCMS and Lora which will just be heavily scaled down Shourya missile

Shells - I think that we are going in right direction thought we should start paying attention to explosive rounds for antimaterial rifles and shot guns

Fuses – from indigenous fuses developed by BARC, we moved to screw driver assembly. There is urgent need to increase indigenous content of imported/assembled fuses while simultaneously developing New series of Indigenous fuse/s for shells, mortars etc

PGMs – we need to start working on PGMs for mortars, artillery guns and Pinaka. The impoprt RFIs have been issued and there seems to be no mandate to DRDO to work on these systems

Radars- I think that we are going in right direction

Sonars- I think that we are going in right direction

Communications & C3/4I Networks- I think that we are going in right direction

ECM, ECCM, ELINT- I think that we are going in right direction

AEW- I think that we are going in right direction

MPAs- I think that we should start thinking of indigenous heavy & medium MPAs apart from Dorniers

UAVs – I think we are going in right direction except for that fact that I would like to see a Rustom with AL-55 engines doing the role of Talarion or Global Hawk and Rustom HALE as Reaper equivalent using Garrett engines

Helos-– I think we are going in right direction except for that fact that MLH should be accelerated and HLH should now come on to the drawing board

Trainer Aircraft – HTT-40 should be pushed, IJT is doing ok but the future LIFT should be LCA with present Kaveri without radar

LCA, LCA Mark-2 and AMCA- I think that we are going in right direction except for the fact that orders for present LCA should be increased to 100

Passenger aircraft – NAL has proposed 50-90 seater turboprop and 90-110 seater Turbofan powered aircraft. I think it is correct direction but it should start working on 200 seater aircraft somewhere between A-320 and A-330

Military lift aircraft – HAL is only working on MRTA. The fact remains that we need military specification aircrafts for replacing An-32 and equivalent to C-130 for our Chinese borders. So we should tie up for replacement of An-32 and develop a turboprop variant of MRTA as our C-130/An-70

UAV piston engines - I think that we are going in right direction with development of light piston and wankel engines. But we will need to expand on the range for Rustom and other future UAVs.

Turbine Engines – Our resources allocated to Turbines are minuscule. The funds allocated to GTRE should be raised by atleast 10 times and it should be mandated to start developing following engines in JVs which are mostly off shoots:-

Kaveri-2
Turbofan based on Kaveri-2 tech for MRTA and future passenger jet
Turboprop based on Kaveri-2 for replacement of An-32 & C-130s
Turboshaft based on Kaveri-2 for MLH & HLH helos while further indigenizing Shakti
Naval engines
Railways engines
Gensets
Industrial engines

Further GTRE should be mandated to work on Small Turbofan engines for cruise missiles. It should also work in deep indigenization + improvement of Al-55 + Garrett engines for use in UAVs.

Heavy Naval Piston Engines – The indigenization level is very low, so Kirloskars should be funded and mandated to increase indigenous content

Tank and AFV engines – Modern engines should be developed with Pvt Sector partner like Kirloskars

Gearbox – Indigenous tech for Modern Gearbox for naval, tank & AFVs is practically absent and we should madate a Pvt sector company for such developments

Missiles

ABMs programme is going in right direction

SAMs basically Barak-2 and its variants are going in right direction but we need to start developing Manpad (equivalent to Mistral) and mandate development of Akash-3 with ARH seeker.

Air to Air missile – Astra is well funded. Thought now we need to start working on IR Astra and WVR missiles also, which is hole in our present programme. Apart from this we need to start working on Ultra long range AAR missile, say based on Barak-2. (what is up with KS-172?)

Air to Ground missiles – while work seems to be going on with Nirbhay but we need huge variety of different missiles.

PGM Kits for Air dropped bombs – like AASM
Modular Stealty Glide bombs
Anti radiation missile (Why not use Barak-2 as a basis for developing one)
Light cruise missile apart from Nirbhay

ATGMs- I think that we are going in right direction

Loitering missiles – we need to start working on Loitering missiles/PGMs/ARMS based on Nishant and laksya

Naval ships - I think that we are going in right direction

Submarines - I think that we are going in right direction

OPVs- I think that we are going in right direction

Fast Brown water patrol vehicles- I think that we are going in right direction

AIP- I think that we are going in right direction

Torpedoes - I think that we are going in right direction

But we need to mandate Pvt companies to start working on Components for naval ships/subs as import content is very high. Notably for props, shafts, stabilizers, steering systems, reverse osmosis plants, air conditioning plants, compressors, pumps.

Simulators – Today Simulators are very important training devices. All indigenous product R&D should be coupled with development of Simulators and training devices along with the main product.

Ramjet engine tech- ISRO should be mandated to indigenize & further develop liquid fueled ramjet technology used in Brahmos and for use in future missiles

New Horizons – Avtar, Kali, ABL – I think that we are going in right direction
Manish_Sharma
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Re: Lets make a 15 year R&D plan

Post by Manish_Sharma »

But isn't in IB4TL? A thread for R&D already exists!
darshhan
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Re: Lets make a 15 year R&D plan

Post by darshhan »

One more thing.Majority of defense PSUs along with OFB should be privatised.Nothing will come out of investing more money in these organisations.All they will do in the name of reform is hire more bureaucrats.

DRDO should be encouraged in the most critical areas such as Missiles,missile defence,Nuclear submarine,stealth,Lasers.Artificial intelligence,High performance computing etc.There is no point in DRDO researching night vision devices ,firearms and vehicle technology.They will never be able to keep up with Private sector in such kind of research.

A DARPA kind of agency can be created to direct and supervise cutting edge tech in universities and private research labs.
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