Indian Police Reform

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Marut
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Marut »

^ Not am isolated incident. A recent one at CST stn where the cops thrashed a homeless man and cleared the area before the President's visit.

http://www.mumbaimirror.com/index.aspx? ... 85a9e73f6c

The poliing is still based on the zabardasti model of the British days, when it suited them to control the populace. Now our brown sahabs are doing the same. Police reform will only be the first and small step towards getting phenomenon to change.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by rahulm »

The tragic part is these same policemen will treat a cow better than they treat humans. Something terribly wrong with the value system here.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by VikramS »

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 22603.aspx

Truck crushes IPS officer to death in Madhya Pradesh :(
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by chaanakya »

VikramS wrote:http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 22603.aspx

Truck crushes IPS officer to death in Madhya Pradesh :(
RIP. Treuly sad. But mining mafias have been ruthless everywhere and in Tamlinadu Revenue officials have been killed in similar instances. No point in taking risk. It is fit case for taking precautionary measures such as prepared to use firearms while encountering such activities.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

chaanakya wrote:No point in taking risk. It is fit case for taking precautionary measures such as prepared to use firearms while encountering such activities.
And then the poor fellow would have to spend his entire career fighting umpteen cases from Human Rights champions of various colour and hue. My personal opinion is that the police should go the US Police way, i.e armed to the teeth. What ever the great intellectuals of India say, at times the only thing which make people come to their senses is the threat of use of force. Expecting the British "unarmed model" of policing on a society which is not similar to the "British society of the yesteryears when the bobby was respected" will not fly in India.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by sum »

X-post:
sum wrote:IIRC, a volcano is waiting to erupt on the Bengaluru lawyers if they dont do a course-correction soon:

Lawyers attack cops again
Ulsoor Gate police head constable Basavaraj and Roopa, a woman constable, were producing an accused person in the ACMM Court, when a group of about 20 advocates allegedly assaulted them, declaring that they had “taught the police a lesson and wouldn’t allow them to enter the court premises”.

Basavaraj told Deccan Herald: “A group of advocates surrounded us in the court corridors, when we were there to produce an accused in connection with a case. They abused us using foul language and repeatedly slapped me. When I fell down, they kicked me hard in the stomach and also tore my uniform.’

Basavaraj sustained injuries on the chin, nose, head and was shifted to the Mallya Hospital for treatment.

The advocates are also alleged to have manhandled the woman constable, Roopa. She later told the police that the men even tried to disrobe her.

An added provocation, it is learnt, was that the duo was from the Ulsoorgate police station, whose jurisdiction covers the City Civil Courts complex.

It may be recalled that Deputy Commissioner of Police (Central), Ramesh and Jitendranath, the then ACP Ulsoorgate sub-division were transferred based on the R K Dutta committee report. All the cases that were filed against the advocates in connection with the March 2 episode are being pursued by the Ulsoorgate police.

Khader Khan, who was being taken to the Court by the two assaulted police personnel, told Deccan Herald: “When I was being taken to the court, a group of 30-40 lawyers ran towards us screaming and took Basavaraj, who was holding me, aside and assaulted him. I was then with constable Roopa. The advocates behaved shabbily with the woman constable. In the melee, some men even suggested that I escape from police custody.:eek: :roll:

A case has been registered at the Ulsoorgate police station under sections 353, 354, 506, 149, 142, 143, read with 149 IPC. Ravikante Gowda, DCP Central, said the advocate who led Tuesday evening’s assault was identified. Teams are on the lookout for him and others, and they would be arrested soon.
Police feel let down, demand action
Police leadership confides that there is grave discontentment in the constabulary and the cops are enraged at the action against seniors on the basis of the R K Dutta report. They feel lawyers have gained the upper hand psychologically.

Padma, wife of Basavaraj, said the behaviour of the advocates was unacceptable and families of constables would launch a strong protest in the coming days. “We want all those lawyers involved in the incident to be arrested,” she said. Other family members demanded speedy action against the erring advocates.

“A section of advocates has created such a situation where no one can walk freely in the courts. Attacking a woman constable and trying to drag her indicates the level the advocates have stooped to,” said Abhishek, son of Basavaraj.

Many policemen, especially constables and sub-inspectors, vented their anger against ACPs and DCPs. They said the officers should experience the difficulties faced by the constabulary while on duty.

“It’s very easy to pass orders sitting in air-conditioned offices. Let DG&IGP Shankar Bidari, Police Commissioner B G Jyothi Prakash Mirji and CID DGP R K Dutta work at the ground level and experience injustice,” a few policemen said.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

x-Post (from Nukkad)
Sachin wrote:Yes. The police force in Bengaluru now looks impotent to take any action against any one. They have become like Pirates in Asterix comics . After the recent fights between lawyers and police man some officers have been transferred out. The lawyers have nothing (nada. zilch) against their own folks who took part in the fights. To put it quite honestly, I dont see any much enthusiasm from the judges as well on this count. Only one judge in the Bangalore High Court actually went ahead and questioned the work ethics of lawyers (who were repeatedly boycotting the courts). So looks like lawyers have become a group of people who have cleanly byepassed the judicial framework.

The constabulary is for sure to get upset and demoralised. So far I have not seen any of the higher ups in police hierarchy even making a tough statement, defending their own sub-ordinates.

PS: I also feel that there is some politics involved here as well. Perhaps a group of lawyers having allegiance to a specific party repeatedly provoking the police? Sooner or later police would hit back and these guardians of law can blame the government for police brutality?
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by sum »

X-post:
sum wrote:Bidari worse than Saddam, Gaddafi, rules Karnataka High Court
The bench struck down Bidari’s contentions “absolving himself of the responsibility” of atrocities by stating he was only deputy commander of the Joint Task Force of Karnataka and Tamil Nadu to nab Veerappan and not “omnipresent and omnipotent like Saddam Hussain or Muammar Gaddafi.” “Though he was not one of them, if what the two women (tribals) have said in their affidavit is true, he is worse than them (Saddam Hussain and Muammar Gadaffi),” the court said in its acerbic observations.
The bench also came down heavily on the state. The chief minister, it said, should have studied the NHRC report before appointing Bidari.
Do our judges even think about they are saying before they blurt out stuff like this, esp when the reciever is a DGP rank person?

Country really seems to be going down the drain rapidly...
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by sum »

Interesting bio on Bidari who was removed as K'taka DGP few days back by the HC:
Felled by the very toughness that made him a supercop
"There will be high-handedness but there will also be respect and fear of the police as long as Bidari is the chief,” a Karnataka police officer said in a casual discussion last November as a battle picked up between Abdul Rehman Infant and Shankar Mahadev Bidari, the two most senior officers in the force, for the post of the state police chief.

Born on June 1, 1952, and appointed to the IPS in 1978, Bidari upstaged the more senior Infant — born on May 23, 1952, and a 1977 IPS appointee, to become the director general of police last year — only to be displaced last week by the Karnataka High Court, which also bracketed him with dictators like Saddam Hussein and Muammar Qaddafi.

Over the years that Bidari has been in the Karnataka police, the odds had so far seemed in his favour at almost anything, whether it concerned awards and recognition, political backing, crime management, encounter deaths, terrorism operations or even corruption and violation of human rights.

One of Karnataka’s most decorated police officers, he has two President’s medals for gallantry — one for the killing of a Naxalite in the late 1980s and the second for the 1993 killing of a member of forest brigand Veerappan’s gang.
According to records compiled for his tenure as STF chief, 56 members of the gang were killed in encounters, 120 were captured and five committed suicide as the gang was reduced from nearly 180 to less than a dozen leading to its elimination in 2004.

On the flip side, forensic and ballistic accounts compiled for a National Human Rights Commission inquiry for that period reveals that many of the “encounter deaths” involved shootings at point-blank range. NHRC inquiries have also found that the police brutalised people living in the forests — through rape and violence — to get to Veerappan. It is the NHRC findings that have resulted in the High Court declaring Bidari ineligible for the post.

Bidari’s argument was that he cannot be held responsible for the atrocities during the operations since these also involved senior officers like Walter Dawaram on the Tamil Nadu side, other seniors on the Karnataka side, and the state government.
In a tenure lasting over two years, he supervised the return of police encounters in the city and the killing of half a dozen people linked to various mafia groups.

The talk in police circles during that period was that the commissioner was in favour of “encounters” to eliminate “dangerous criminals” and that he would back his officers to the hilt. City police officers were vying with each other to notch up encounters during that period.
The unofficial story at the time was that the sons of top ministers and their aides were upset that Bidari was rarely giving them a hearing. According to sources, one of these sons wanted tickets to a cricket match and got his personal assistant to call Bidari, who allegedly did not mince words in telling the secretary to buzz off. “Though he held the minister himself in high regard, he had little respect for his sons and their hangers-on and this led to a lot of friction since the sons were always making demands,” a source said.

In another incident that is believed to have led to Bidari’s exit, he allegedly put the teenage son of another top minister in his place for slapping a traffic policeman who hauled had him up for a traffic violation.
Though vilified by many for his human rights record and self-aggrandisement, Bidari has over the years enjoyed the support of a large section of the men he commanded on account of his readiness to back them to the hilt. A recent series of violence between lawyers and policemen in Bangalore, which led to an 18-day strike by lawyers, is seen as being linked to the tough, no-nonsense image that the state police police chief sent down the line.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

sum wrote:as a battle picked up between Abdul Rehman Infant and Shankar Mahadev Bidari, the two most senior officers in the force, for the post of the state police chief.
A minor error in the IE report. AR Infant IPS is not a Muslim officer. He is a Christian officer from Kerala. His first name is certainly not Abdul Rehman. Note that the word "Infant" most likely refers to Baby Jesus here.
In another incident that is believed to have led to Bidari’s exit, he allegedly put the teenage son of another top minister in his place for slapping a traffic policeman who hauled had him up for a traffic violation.
Good. This top minister is none other that the Home Minister of Karnataka. This was reported widely in the media, as it was an ASI getting assualted in public.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by sum »

^^ Sachin-sir, EVERY news outlet in India has called the new DGP as Abdul Rehman Infant since i can recall ( from atleast 1 year back). Are you seeing that A.R. stands for something else?
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by suryag »

Kothakota Sreenivasa Reddy the daredevil ACB DIG instrumental in hauling up liquor syndicates has been promoted to IGP and moved out of ACB to some obscure dept to save the criminals
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by pgbhat »

sum wrote:^^ Sachin-sir, EVERY news outlet in India has called the new DGP as Abdul Rehman Infant since i can recall ( from atleast 1 year back). Are you seeing that A.R. stands for something else?
http://www.ksp.gov.in/home/dg-message.php
The Web Portal has become an important interface among the stake holders of an organization and the general public. This is all the more true in respect of one like the Karnataka State Police as its functions affect the life of each and every citizen. The contents of the Web Portal assumes significance since it is an important channel of communication with the citizens. We have tried to improve the contents and make it more citizen-centric. We are conscious that there is greater scope for making it more citizen-friendly as also heighten the quality. The Website provides, amongst others, information to lay citizens as well as researchers and scholars by incorporating acts, rules, manuals, other statutes which guide the functioning of the Police, as well as forms which will be of interest and utility of the citizens. There are special features such as crime statistics, information on missing persons, motor vehicle lost and traced and FAQ, to name a few. It is our endeavor to constantly upgrade the contents and quality of the website.

I am sure that the revamped web portal would make the interface more productive, meaningful and interactive.

(Abdul Rehman Infant)

Director General &

Inspector General of Police,

Karnataka State, Bangalore.
Sachin
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

sum wrote:^^ Sachin-sir, EVERY news outlet in India has called the new DGP as Abdul Rehman Infant since i can recall ( from atleast 1 year back). Are you seeing that A.R. stands for something else?
I take back what I said. My understanding that AR stood for some thing different.
pgbhat, thanks for the link.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Yagnasri »

ACB investegations into Liquor sydicates is creating lot of political heat in AP with PCC President directly invovled in the scam.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by pgbhat »

5,000 police constables to be recruited soon
Chief Minister D.V. Sadananda Gowda announced here on Monday that the State government would shortly recruit 5,000 police constables, including 200 to the Coastal Security Force (CSF).

Mr. Gowda made the announcement at the Police Flag Day celebrations organised by Karnataka State Police Department, where 98 police personnel were awarded the Chief Minister's medal.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Aditya_V »

sum wrote:Interesting bio on Bidari who was removed as K'taka DGP few days back by the HC:
Felled by the very toughness that made him a supercop
"There will be high-handedness but there will also be respect and fear of the police as long as Bidari is the chief,” a Karnataka police officer said in a casual discussion last November as a battle picked up between Abdul Rehman Infant and Shankar Mahadev Bidari, the two most senior officers in the force, for the post of the state police chief.

Born on June 1, 1952, and appointed to the IPS in 1978, Bidari upstaged the more senior Infant — born on May 23, 1952, and a 1977 IPS appointee, to become the director general of police last year — only to be displaced last week by the Karnataka High Court, which also bracketed him with dictators like Saddam Hussein and Muammar Qaddafi.

Over the years that Bidari has been in the Karnataka police, the odds had so far seemed in his favour at almost anything, whether it concerned awards and recognition, political backing, crime management, encounter deaths, terrorism operations or even corruption and violation of human rights.

One of Karnataka’s most decorated police officers, he has two President’s medals for gallantry — one for the killing of a Naxalite in the late 1980s and the second for the 1993 killing of a member of forest brigand Veerappan’s gang.
According to records compiled for his tenure as STF chief, 56 members of the gang were killed in encounters, 120 were captured and five committed suicide as the gang was reduced from nearly 180 to less than a dozen leading to its elimination in 2004.

On the flip side, forensic and ballistic accounts compiled for a National Human Rights Commission inquiry for that period reveals that many of the “encounter deaths” involved shootings at point-blank range. NHRC inquiries have also found that the police brutalised people living in the forests — through rape and violence — to get to Veerappan. It is the NHRC findings that have resulted in the High Court declaring Bidari ineligible for the post.

Bidari’s argument was that he cannot be held responsible for the atrocities during the operations since these also involved senior officers like Walter Dawaram on the Tamil Nadu side, other seniors on the Karnataka side, and the state government.
In a tenure lasting over two years, he supervised the return of police encounters in the city and the killing of half a dozen people linked to various mafia groups.

The talk in police circles during that period was that the commissioner was in favour of “encounters” to eliminate “dangerous criminals” and that he would back his officers to the hilt. City police officers were vying with each other to notch up encounters during that period.
The unofficial story at the time was that the sons of top ministers and their aides were upset that Bidari was rarely giving them a hearing. According to sources, one of these sons wanted tickets to a cricket match and got his personal assistant to call Bidari, who allegedly did not mince words in telling the secretary to buzz off. “Though he held the minister himself in high regard, he had little respect for his sons and their hangers-on and this led to a lot of friction since the sons were always making demands,” a source said.

In another incident that is believed to have led to Bidari’s exit, he allegedly put the teenage son of another top minister in his place for slapping a traffic policeman who hauled had him up for a traffic violation.
Though vilified by many for his human rights record and self-aggrandisement, Bidari has over the years enjoyed the support of a large section of the men he commanded on account of his readiness to back them to the hilt. A recent series of violence between lawyers and policemen in Bangalore, which led to an 18-day strike by lawyers, is seen as being linked to the tough, no-nonsense image that the state police police chief sent down the line.
Problem is many Judges/lawyers have today is that our legal system takes to long and expects everybody to be civililized, unfortunately Maoists / Veerapans in this world are neither honest nor are civilised and our CRPC is weofully in favour of prepetrators of such crimes that if they do not die in encounters they virtually go scot free. Like Abu Salem, Dawood Ibrahim, Kasab etc. Abu Salem punishment is in no way severe compared to the crimes he has committed. Plus theres seems to institutional hatred of Police forces across various Bar associations. And many Judges/ Politicians do not identify with Police as the persons of thier society. Hence, people like Lalu who make statements Maoists don't attack civilians and are hence good. Well, Policeman and CRPF men are from the same society and generally lower middle class given the income level unless they have made some side money when they gone to top positions. Further, these guys are not a major votebank either, rest assured due to this class disconnect, the elite and sometimes criminal politicos will always favour policemen who do not harm criminal interests.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Kannan »

My grandfather died in Krishnagiri after he was hit by a car while biking. My family is STILL trying to give the Krishnagiri police enough of a bribe to get a death certificate.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

Kannan wrote:My grandfather died in Krishnagiri after he was hit by a car while biking. My family is STILL trying to give the Krishnagiri police enough of a bribe to get a death certificate.
You should certainly contact the higher ups in the Krishnagiri District Police. I am not saying that policemen in Tamil Nadu are angels, but there are changes happening all across the board. I suggest you try to contact a senior officer in the district. I don't know the entire details of the case, but I don't think the police can make much money in such a case.
TN Police - Contact details. Check for Krishnagiri Dt.
Abhishek Dixit
04343-239600
04343-231700(Fax)
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by kmkraoind »

Nitish Kumar separates two wings of police - DNA
Bihar Chief Minister Nitish Kumar today launched separate wings of law and order and investigation in state police and said it would prove to be a milestone in the history of the security force.

"Separation of law and order and investigation will strengthen both wings of the organisation and it will be treated as a milestone in the history of police," Kumar said after launching the mechanism in 23 police stations in Patna district under first phase here.

This exercise would help provide better policing and also reaching justice in time, he said adding that thrust should be given on speedy disposal of land dispute cases.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by chaanakya »

And what is required to reform them??
http://www.thehindu.com/news/states/tam ... 377264.ece
The Central Bureau of Investigation on Wednesday arrested Inspector-General of Police (Armed Police) P. Pramod Kumar in New Delhi in connection with the Paazee Forex Trading Company scam, highly placed sources said. The arrested police officer is likely to be brought to Coimbatore on Thursday to present him before the court for CBI cases.

Mr. Kumar was IGP (West Zone) when the case was registered by the Tirupur District Police. The charge against the IG, according to the CBI, was that he had received a huge bribe to protect its three directors. Meanwhile, a woman had alleged that she was kidnapped and sexually abused by policemen involved in the case. The charge was that an amount of nearly Rs 1.85 crore was taken in three installments holding Kamalavalli in captivity and also for protecting the investors. Mr. Pramod Kumar in his anticipatory bail plea stated that none of the promoters of the firm had accused him of demanding or taking money. He was declined advance bail.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Yogi_G »

Given my experiences in trying to lodge traffic complaints with the police, this news comes as very refreshing. A cop who put his ideals ahead of one crore.

Evangelist K A Paul(President of Global Peace Initiative!!) arrested for murdering his brother

Andhra Pradesh police on Monday arrested K A Paul in connection with the murder of his brother David Raju. The well-known evangelist was arrested from Ongole town in Prakasam district for the crime that took place two-and-a-half years ago.

According to superintendent of police K Raghuram Reddy, Paul had offered Rs.1 crore as bribe to an Ongole police official to abduct his follower Koteshwara Rao, who he had allegedly paid a supari for getting his brother killed, and eliminate him in an encounter. Paul also paid an amount of Rs.3 lakh to the police official in advance.

However, the police official recorded the entire conversation with Paul on a spy camera and reported the matter to his superiors. Based on the information given by the official, Paul was arrested along with two others in a hotel. The police produced them in the local magistrate court, which sent them to judicial remand for 14 days.


Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/evan ... 89711.html
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Aditya_V »

Yogi_G wrote:Given my experiences in trying to lodge traffic complaints with the police, this news comes as very refreshing. A cop who put his ideals ahead of one crore.

Evangelist K A Paul(President of Global Peace Initiative!!) arrested for murdering his brother

Andhra Pradesh police on Monday arrested K A Paul in connection with the murder of his brother David Raju. The well-known evangelist was arrested from Ongole town in Prakasam district for the crime that took place two-and-a-half years ago.

According to superintendent of police K Raghuram Reddy, Paul had offered Rs.1 crore as bribe to an Ongole police official to abduct his follower Koteshwara Rao, who he had allegedly paid a supari for getting his brother killed, and eliminate him in an encounter. Paul also paid an amount of Rs.3 lakh to the police official in advance.

However, the police official recorded the entire conversation with Paul on a spy camera and reported the matter to his superiors. Based on the information given by the official, Paul was arrested along with two others in a hotel. The police produced them in the local magistrate court, which sent them to judicial remand for 14 days.


Read more at: http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/evan ... 89711.html

Boss I doubt it is idealism here, the KA Paul , Brother Ani Kumar fights are public Knowledge. The Policeman could have been reqwarded more by the other party in this case.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Aditya_V »

One more comment- it seems his friends in USA did not find him very useful when he was in the US and kicked him out to India to do thier bidding.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

Sachin,

In old days the police needed a District Magistrate or Collector level IAS officer's sign off for firing for crowd control. Is this still valid?
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

Answer from chaanakya...
chaanakya wrote:Yes it is still there. In all cases of police deployment, Executive Magistrates are also deputed and Police has to seek orders. There are some exceptions when Police officer can use force. They need not be IAS , any officer who has been conferred with magisterial power can do so.

In some places, Metropolitan cities and few others Executive Magistrate power is conferred upon police officer not below the rank of Asst Supdt of Police. They take their own decisions regarding use of force. They are called Asst Commissioner of Police, Deputy Commissioner of Police, Joint Commissioner of Police , Additional Commissioner of Police and Commissioner of Police. Of course SHOs cant use force without Asst CP being on the spot and giving order. Same exceptions apply here also in exceptions.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

http://www.hindustantimes.com/India-new ... 18376.aspx

Wrong headline but correct content

Low Morale not Patnaik's fault: Cops

The city police’s morale is low, but it is not all Arup Patnaik’s fault. It was a battered, beleaguered force even when he took over as chief 18 months ago, said officers with the Mumbai police.

From the lack of decent homes to live in and the lack of basic amenities at staff quarters to struggling to afford their children’s education, the police force has been facing a host of problems, and they blame them on the skewed hierarchy and absolute lack of support from senior officers.

The slow erosion of one of the finest police forces in the country was not an overnight phenomenon – it started almost a decade ago.

And the damage has been considerable ever since RR Patil took over as home minister, said several police officers, who served the force for more than two decades.

“This same force was effective at a time when there was no advanced technology and having a telephone at home was a status symbol. In those days, the policemen maintained a record of every activity in their locality,” said a senior police officer, requesting anonymity.

A senior crime branch officer said: “There was a time when we used to know what Balasaheb Thackeray had discussed in private. :eek: But this was also the time when the senior police officer at the special branch would brief the chief minister. Today, a posting to the special branch is considered as punishment.”

Officers believe the government played a big hand in destroying the force’s efficiency. “The government did not want us to do what we did best, and created unwanted hierarchies, which slowly created a rift in the force,” the officer said.

“For policemen in the 1990s or 2000s, duty was synonymous to responsibility. For these same men, duty has now become an obligation, a job, a task,” said another officer....
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

Hindu News story on how Blackberrie enable traffic police corruption:

Blackberries to be phased out for traffic police

....The “Blackberry” boys of the city traffic police have been shown the red signal thanks to increased corruption among the ranks.

These phones were meant to clip the wings of bribe-taking police personnel, and though Blackberrys raked in huge amounts in fines — the police’s revenues in fines doubled — corruption levels too rose. So now the city traffic police are thinking of phasing them out and relying instead on CCTVs and digital cameras to check traffic violations.

....
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

ramana wrote:So now the city traffic police are thinking of phasing them out and relying instead on CCTVs and digital cameras to check traffic violations.
I found out the report very misleading. It does not say how blackberry phones are the reason for corruption or abetting bribe taking. Blackberry phones are only good for two purposes (as I saw it):-
1. It records every fine charged in a central database. So if a traffic SI collects a fine and punches the data onto the device it gets recorded.
2. Because of the database and connectivity on blackberry phone, subsequent violations can be easily tracked. So repeated offendors can be easily identified and given larger fines.

Other wise the blackberry phone is as good as the old "TR-5" form which police men issues as receipts for collecting of fines. TR-5 in many states is the official receipt for "Collection of money". So if a police man does not give this receipt, and still takes the money it is a bribe (or unaccounted money).

What City Police may be really trying is to avoid the practise of Traffic PSIs standing in various corners and checking the vehicles. There chances of malpractises are larger. Where as a centralised traffic control room where officers record violations (but are not in a position to charge sheet the offendor straight away).

And The Hindu finds a reason to blame a telephone device as the root cause of police corruption :roll: :rotfl:.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by sum »

Sad article which highlights the dirt like way the cops are treated:
On duty in Thackeray zone: It’s a sorry life for the cops
The deployed personnel cannot be careless as they normally would be and create an incident which can trigger confusion and anger. They literally have to walk – or in this case, stand – on eggs, careful that they do not break any. If they didn’t, it would be as bad as inaction, should an action be warranted. They need to be not only be fit but be in fine mental fettle.
To say the least, the situation is rather delicate and can diffuse only when Bal Thackeray is announced to be entirely well and back on his feet. The policemen deployed there have to ensure that things do not slip out of hand in their 24×7 vigil. We don’t even know if they are being rotated in shifts to keep them composed and alert but long, unbroken spells on assignment is rather the norm.

And yet, the very men who should contain any situation are in a bad spot themselves. The Indian Express reported today how the personnel have been left to fend for themselves on a crucial count: drinking water and food. They are dependent on a restaurant in close proximity in the Bandra suburb for the stuff without which even the best of policemen can become listless.

Initially, they sought out the place for drinking water. Then, in the two days since they were posted there, and without supply of food, they found that the generosity of the restaurateur was far stronger than the logistics of the police department. It is as if the cops can survive on thin air and nothing else besides. At least, that is the best construct possible.

That this kindly restaurateur is able to feed as many as 4,000 of them free each day is in itself a wonder. It calls for a remarkable marshalling of resources and manpower as well. It is as if a single determined Shiv Sena believer, Sharad Shelar, can outdo the police, who, we assume, are organised. Communities have to respect the policeman, but the police personnel have to be independent of the community.

It is common knowledge that police force is always stretched in the duties it has to perform and often blamed for poor performance. It is forgotten that a constable on duty, any duty, has to be as if going to war: weapons, subsistence material, communications et al, without which he can be a failure.

It ought to have occurred to the top brass that they are rendering their manpower weaker by this neglect of the basics. It ought to have struck them that tomorrow, the same generous man, should he decide, can compromise the police system by calling for encashment of the brownie points earned now with the policemen. It is forgotten that there are no free lunches.
Just behind the Thackeray residence, on the road leading towards Sahitya Sahwas, where Sachin Tendulkar was raised, and then on to Patrakar, where journalists lived, is a long tin shack which occupies the entire sidewalk within which are barracked the policemen who are on general security duty to look after Bal and Uddhav Thackeray’s safety. It is akin to living in a slum right next to the high profile VIPs, mostly a metaphor for Mumbai.

That brutalises the personnel to such an extent that to expect even civic conduct from them would be an outlandish idea. Look at the television footage of how the men in khaki have behaved in any explosive situation: in Kolhapur, where farmers are agitating for better sugarcane prices, a lathi charge was not to disperse the mob but punish them.
If the managers of the force are insensitive, one cannot expect the force’s personnel to be sensitive. It makes for common sense. The Army, the BSF, the CRPF, and such para-military forces have a system in place: establish a camp, provide the necessities even as the manpower is deployed. Then the best – or worst – demands are made of the men.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by putnanja »

Parallel taxation is ‘mamool’ in the city
...
So, who is an honest policeman? “One who doesn’t go out of his way to extort money,” replies a former sub-inspector of police in the city, who resigned two years ago.

What does that mean? “As a sub-inspector of police (Law and Order) of a prime police station in the city, I would get at least Rs. 30,000 of ‘hafta’ (protection money) per month. Shop owners, street vendors, bar and pub owners, sex workers, restaurant owners… everybody paid. And I would get a share of the booty without having to move from my chair,” says the 28-year-old who has since joined the civil services.

“I did not take bribes and fix cases. I would not bow to pressure from local politicians and corrupt senior officers. I would not go out of my way to extort money from rich businessmen and criminals. That’s why I was considered honest,” he says sardonically.
...
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by SaiK »

Indian Army’s human rights record is the best in the world: Army Chief
Hope our police can at least listen to IA and learn.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

SaiK wrote:Hope our police can at least listen to IA and learn.
I am sure the "Trains not running on time, let us get the Army involved here" brigade to take this up with glee ;). Policing and Army job is different. How many civilians do the Army people get to meet every day, or what are the daily problems (purely from a policing angle) of the civil crowd which Army has to deal with? In areas where Army is involved, they are not doing local law and order policing. Where as a police force deals with the rest of the population on a daily basis, through out the country 24/7. And this is right from traffic law enforcement all the way to politically motivated murders etc. Chances of a "human right violation" charge getting levied is much more higher in such a case.

PS: I am not making a statement that police force in India are full of angels. But compare police with an organisation which has vast powers and deals with a large number of civil population.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by member_23629 »

Bade wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 053805.cms

The headlines tells it all. Such brutality with gang-assaults seems more common than one would believe. This one is almost six month old news, but getting attention now.
The main problem is the callousness of the thana-level police force. These people are just semi-literate village boys recruited as constables and sub inspectors, and are total misfits. They are foul mouths and lack the sensitivity required for the job.
Despite the brazenness and brutality of the incident, what has shocked many is the apathy of the police. Till the day after the incident, family members allege, the police were refusing to even register a case. It was only because of pressure from locals who took out a protest march that the case was registered. Bihar chief minister Nitish Kumar also spoke to his Rajasthan counterpart Ashok Gehlot after which the administration swung into action. Even though six people were arrested, two have already been granted bail as the police had allegedly booked them under milder sections of IPC.


It is still a colonial police force set up to protect the rulers from the citizens. It is amazing that while IPS level officers have to face one of the toughest recruitment tests through UPSC, the thana level force -- which actually interacts with people -- is staffed with semi-literate boys from rural areas. The IPS dudes the moment they get hired become the Gym khana types and make themselves unavailable to the people, leaving the thana-level staff to mistreat the citizens without any supervision.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sachin »

varunkumar wrote:These people are just semi-literate village boys recruited as constables and sub inspectors, and are total misfits. They are foul mouths and lack the sensitivity required for the job.
Good point. And I would seen become another Rahul Mehta by harping on the same point again and again. When we talk about illteracy or semi-literacy. When we talk about the police of a state, we need to see the average literacy level of that state. If it is semi-literate boys who join the police, my question why are not the so called 100% literate, well educated folks not making an attempt? Dont they like the job? Or they find it to stressful (or demeaning) to work as a police man? A semi-literate person will not become 100% literate, sensitive (to the level 100% literate chap expects) by just undergoing a 9 month to 1 year training period (in the Police College or school).

So much so that for an efficient state level police force, the state and its people itself would have to work for it. Raise the pay scale, motivate more people to join in and work on getting a better talent pool to select people from. This cannot be done by an IPS officer alone it requires strong political will and overall improvement in the general thinking of the society (which the police should protect).
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by member_23629 »

Another issue is the artificial vertical separation between the IPS officers (the posts which British lads used to fill) and the thana-level staff (which was made up exclusively by the native boys). This exact two-tier structure created by the British was retained after Independence for some strange reason. In no other country does such an artificial separation exist in the police heirarchy. The natives at thana-level have no hope in hell of rising above the ACP or Astt. SP level even when they start as sub-inspectors. The poor constables can only aspire to become an ASI. The British wanted it this way so that no Indian rises up the ranks to mix with the British lads, and the same thing still continues -- instead of the British lads, now we have IPS barra sahibs.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by sum »

varunkumar wrote:Another issue is the artificial vertical separation between the IPS officers (the posts which British lads used to fill) and the thana-level staff (which was made up exclusively by the native boys). This exact two-tier structure created by the British was retained after Independence for some strange reason. In no other country does such an artificial separation exist in the police heirarchy. The natives at thana-level have no hope in hell of rising above the ACP or Astt. SP level even when they start as sub-inspectors. The poor constables can only aspire to become an ASI. The British wanted it this way so that no Indian rises up the ranks to mix with the British lads, and the same thing still continues -- instead of the British lads, now we have IPS barra sahibs.
^^ Ture.

Have always scratched my head on this concept about direct SI recruits never having a chance to become anything above ACPs while 21 year olds join in as their bosses.

The constables are even worse off
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Pranay »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 068638.cms

Does one laugh or cry at such pearls of wisdom??? :roll:
The Supreme Court could barely contain its exasperation and amusement when Delhi Police blandly submitted that security cover provided to top dignitaries was intended to help them take "bold and impartial" decisions.

Responding to the assertion, a bench of Justices G S Singhvi and H L Gokhale which is examining the necessity of security cover to dignitaries, politicians and officials, asked the Delhi Police counsel to explain how a sentry at the gate helped the protected person take "bold and impartial" decisions.

The affidavit filed by Mangesh Kashyap, a deputy commissioner of police, said "certain category of individuals, mainly from the higher echelons of the government, needed to be provided basic minimum security arrangements, that is positional/statutory security cover, not on account of their status or specific threat, but to facilitate bold and impartial decision making".

These dignitaries, according to Delhi Police, include Union ministers, the lieutenant governor, chief minister, cabinet ministers, Chief Justice of India, judges of the Supreme Court and Delhi high court besides some bureaucrats.

At the first call, there was no one on behalf of Delhi Police to defend its stand. But on second call, advocate R K Rathore stood up for the police. The bench, which had seen the post of judges of SC and HC included in the list of dignitaries, asked, "How do our judgments become bold and impartial by the presence of a sentry at the gate? Is this the level of understanding expected from a DCP-level officer who must be from Indian Police Service?"

Rathore told the court that Delhi Police would file a better affidavit. But the bench said the affidavit must come from either the home secretary or his deputy in such a sensitive matter.
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by Sachin »

varunkumar wrote:The natives at thana-level have no hope in hell of rising above the ACP or Astt. SP level even when they start as sub-inspectors. The poor constables can only aspire to become an ASI
A similar anomaly exists in pretty much every job in civil service. A Village officer, can at the maximum reach the level of an RDO (who is junior to the District Collector). All these follow the British pattern of governance, and the separation exists. I guess this is applicable for pretty much in every job profile which has an "Indian xxxxx Service" cadre associated with it. The Army also has a similar concept where a jawan can become a Subedar Major at the most. Then they have the Hon. Commission system, which is equivalent to the "Conferred IxS" status which is used in the civil service.
sum wrote:Have always scratched my head on this concept about direct SI recruits never having a chance to become anything above ACPs
Two states in the south have a "State Service Cadre" these days. Karnataka has her own "Karnataka xxxx Service" cadre. Recuritment is based on a style similar to UPSC exams. Postings generally happen as RDOs (in Admin) or a Dy.SPs (in Police). These are all sub-divisional postings. The flip side of this arrangement is that local level politics etc. would start influencing these jobs as well. A myth perpetrated around the "IxS cadre" is that they may not be so easily influenced by local politics (and thus become more efficient and impartial). Kerala does not have this scheme, and it is more promotion based. A Sub Inspector would pretty much become a Dy.SP with around 18 years service, and then can even be promoted as Supt.of Police but will not hold L&O charge of a district.

At this point I feel that many of the British introduced systems now needs a total revamp. The system worked fine when British ran the show, but now we need Desi versions of the same. A bottom-up approach may be better.

Sorry for the OT post..
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Re: Delhi Case Follow-up thread

Post by sum »

At this point I feel that many of the British introduced systems now needs a total revamp. The system worked fine when British ran the show, but now we need Desi versions of the same. A bottom-up approach may be better.
Any good links as to how the other democracies have their setups, Sachin-saar?

Im sure it wont be as weird and discriminatory as our system
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