Indian Police Reform

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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by archan »

SRoy wrote: BRF is becoming a forum where ball licking of sarkari departments equates patriotism. This thread is not the only one. EVM thread is another example. It is becoming a trend suitably facilitated by "moderators".
If you have takleef with BRF, find another forum and grace it with your presence. I can help you get rid of BRF...
But while you are here, you do what moderators say. If that is not acceptable to you, refer to the first sentence of this post.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

SRoy wrote:As I said, there is no uniformity of such rules in India. Its upto the whims and fancies of local officials. And such arbitrary rules only encourages corrupt cops at lower levels.
I do get your point. AFAIK in Kerala and Karnataka there is no need to prove where your are going, and where you are planning to say when you ask for a NOC. The laws of the lands needs to be made simple and unambiguous. That holds for the policing procedures, and also with very many other Acts.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by sum »

X-post:
sum wrote:Policing encounters
Three police encounters in less than 10 days. Now, if that sent the chill down the spine of every criminal in the City, would you dub the police trigger-happy?

While human rights activists predictably claim these encounters were ''deliberately staged,'' the police have the usual alibi: We had no choice, we were pushed to the corner!

The slained killers’ relatives obviously cry hoarse, citing human rights violation. But the police reel out a long list of the criminal’s misdeeds. Even the criminal has the right to get the due process of law. But if he turns violent, the police say, they would act. Going one step further, the police would even send a more deadly message. Like they did by honouring a house owner recently for shooting to death a sandalwood thief.

But encounters aren’t anything new to Bangalore. In the first such case, Station Shekhar, an associate of don M P Jairaj, was gunned down in 1989. Over 30 such encounters have been recorded since then. This year alone, the police have killed four persons and injured one in separate encounters.

Involved in the encounters, the anti-rowdy squad is a small team comprising only a few officers. ACP Ashok Kumar and Abdul Azeem, now an MLC, have been involved in five encounters, with the rowdies surviving in two cases. Former ACP G A Bava led the team that killed Eric D'Souza, a Mumbai-based gangster, who was in the City to murder another former gangster.

Mumbai encounter specialist Vijay Salaskar had gunned down three Mumbai gangsters on Cubbon Road. In January and February 2007, the then ACP B K Shivaram and his team killed Shimoga Naga, an associate of Hebbet Manja, on Hebbal flyover.

Only in some of these cases were the police taken to court. But the police had the last laugh.

Police stand

City Police Commissioner Shankar Bidari does not see encounters as a means to enforce justice. “Certain situations force encounters as they are not planned occurances. The police officers on the spot use weapons considering the situation,” he explains.

Pulakeshinagar ACP, B B Ashok Kumar justifies each of the 18 encounters he was
involved in across the State. “Encounters are required if one looks into the background of those killed. They were involved in several heinous crimes, had taken law into their hands frequently, had posed a great threat to society and the police and attacked the police.”

Police are convinced that the crime graph dips after every encounter. Is this a trend that, as some department insiders say, tempts the police top brass to resort to such killings when they fail to control activities of notorious criminals?

But the police are quick to deny it. “The decision to use weapons is not a pre-meditated one. It happens based on a particular situation,” defends an officer.

Death sentence without trial

Human rights votaries say encounter killing is a death sentence without trial. Policemen dubbed as ‘encounter specialists’ ought to be treated for what they are, criminals, instead of being labelled as heroes, they contend.
......
Here’s their critical contention: “How is that policemen rarely die in encounters, when these insurgents are typically shown to be much better armed than our police? The men in khaki should realise they are paid to bring offenders to justice, not to kill them. It is high time the uniformed units are trained to be patient.”

But Bidari cites Section 103, IPC which permits the use of weapons for self defence. “Is it not a human right violation when criminals open fire at the police?” he asks. “And, what about those officers who were injured or killed by criminals? What about those innocent people who were brutally murdered by criminals? Why don’t human rights activists fail to consider this?” Ashok Kumar wonders. The debate goes on.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

Sachin, Do you think we should keep track of latest books on Police practices worldwide for the benefit of Indians?

-----

Death Scene Investigation A Field Guide
Publisher: CRC Press (November 24, 2008) | ISBN: 1420086766 | Pages: 237 |
Each and every death scene presents new challenges to even the most seasoned investigator. Despite the unique nature of each scenario, using a standardized protocol is the key to ensuring consistent and accurate results. Death Scene Investigation: A Field Guide provides concise direction for the death scene investigator, crime scene investigator, coroner, medical examiner, or anyone associated with the investigation of death.
Since the majority of deaths are due to natural causes, the book emphasizes these situations, yet also examines unnatural circumstances. It begins by providing a general overview of death investigation before delving into a chronological point-by-point analysis of the death scene. Topics discussed include how to assess the body at the scene, and how to investigate natural and unnatural deaths.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

Stephen Mancusi, "The Police Composite Sketch"
Humana Press | 2010 | ISBN: 1607618311 | 222 pages |
The police composite sketch, one of the most crucial investigative tools in law enforcement, is developed during a composite session—an intense display of communication and art in which the words of a witness are transformed into the features of a suspect. Despite the incredible technological leaps made in investigative work, the forensic science of composite sketching still relies on the basic elements of drawing skill, interpretive ability and the spoken word. The Police Composite Sketch is a comprehensive manual on how to conduct a complete composite session. Through an array of case studies, it details several disciplines that comprise this specialized forensic art, including composite sketching, image modification, age progression, facial comparison analysis, demonstrative evidence and postmortem/skull reconstruction. It also explores how to intuit insights that are often inadvertently revealed by witnesses, victims and perpetrators during the composite session. In addition, this book discusses other relevant topics, such as the three-stage drawing technique, witness and victim types, descriptive terminologies, managing composite sessions. Complete with numerous illustrations and drawing tips, this seminal work offers a general composite session philosophy and specific session strategies to both experienced and aspiring forensic artists as well as any lay reader intrigued by this fascinating skill.
ramana
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

Sachin!

Ann R. Bumbak, "Dynamic Police Training"
Publisher: CRC | 2010 | ISBN 1439815879 | 182 pages |
As police work has become increasingly professionalized, classrooms have become a preferred environment for training. However, the best preparation for police work has traditionally been conducted on the job. Dynamic Police Training partners the experienced law enforcement officer’s "street-smart" perspective of what makes training work with a professional educator’s "book-smart" approach to writing curriculum to achieve the best results in police training programs.
A results-oriented handbook for police trainers seeking clear and definitive information on curriculum development, the book facilitates training designed to develop students’ critical thinking skills, physical competencies, and in-depth understanding of concepts such as use of force, consequences of failure, and value-based judgment. Authored by a former police officer and trainer with over 14 years of experience in the field and the classroom, this volume:
Examines the typical strengths and limitations of police trainers and describes how to build on existing skills Explains how to go beyond the lecture and slide show format to make police training an interactive and thought-provoking experience for students Translates the theoretical basis of cognitive, affective, and psychomotor skills training into police-oriented language Outlines the methods for developing high-quality law enforcement instructional content Pres a step-by-step construction guide for law enforcement lesson plan development with versatile templates included for the reader’s use
Understanding how to write an interactive curriculum that allows police officers to achieve mastery of skills in the classroom is what differentiates outstanding training from the mediocre. Dynamic Police Training helps police trainers who deliver, revise, or develop training programs in the academy and beyond, enabling them to achieve top-notch training results within the confines of the classroom setting that translate into real results on the street.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

Ramana, one thing I noticed about the books is that they are more suited for a country other than India (except the "Police Composite Sketch"). I feel that policing in every country heavily depends upon the society of that country. What may work in US/UK may not work in India. But yes, I feel in India a lot more focus is given on drills and parade ground ceremonies during the recruit training days.
ramana
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

However shouldn't they be aware of whats going on in other countries and partake of what suits them in that area?

How about download some of them and see if your friends want to read?
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by rahulm »

Recently, I posted my inadvertent interaction with the Pune Traffic police which turned out to be a very pleasant experience.

Now I present my deliberate (planned) encounter with the Pune police.

Lost my mobile phone in an auto. I regularly back up my phone data. More than anything I wanted to get my number back which the telco will grant if provided an FIR.

I walked into the Bavdhan police chowky near Chandani chowk. 2 constables were on duty, one sleeping (senior) and the other (junior) watching TV. The Police thana itself was neat and clean.

The junior greets me warmly, a process which stirs the senior, who proceeds to open his eyes, and then promptly goes back to sleep after giving me a once over.

I am politely asked to take a seat which I do. This is going good so far I think. I state my problem and request a FIR to help me regain my old number.

The police thana has only 2 blank copies of the FIR remaining. They ask if I I would dash round the corner and get some copies made. (Score 0/10 - Its not my job to do their job).

I suggest perhaps its more efficient for me to make 1 trip to the copy shop and make copies of the FIR as well as blank forms. The request is granted. While all this is happening the honourable sleeping constable decides to wake up and take a curious interest in the proceedings.

I mention I lost the phone at Koregaon park. The junior constable suggests that if I choose to mention this fact, I will have to go to Koregaon park police station due to jurisdiction issues. I thought this requirement was abolished a long time ago but decide to relent and not mention the fact. (For those who don't know Pune, Bavdhan and Koregaon park are at 2 opposite ends of the city.)

The FIR is completed without any hassle. So far I have been in the thana all of 10 minutes or so. (10/10 for efficiency)

I then head off with the completed FIR and the remaining blank to make copies. I make 10 copies of the blank FIR and 3 copies of my FIR (Me, telco & police copy). I am back in 15 minutes. The junior constable is waiting for me outside. I find this strange. (score 0/10 not my job)

Once inside, I hand the copies to the junior constable. There is where the fun starts.

The "Saheb" is not in but I will not be kept waiting, the junior assures me firmly and with pride. He picks up an earlier FIR and [gulp] forges the Saheb's signature on my FIR in front of me. I don't know where to look and I am now quite uncomfortable. He then stamps the thana's seal on my FIR, looks up at me rather pleased with himself and says in Marathi "jhal sir" (its done sir). (Score 10/10 for creativity, 0/10 for integrity)

However, the junior does not hand me the FIR. It still firmly in his hands. I make no move towards the document. Its becoming uncomfortable now. I am not going to blink first, I tell myself.

Here the the rest of it almost verbatim:

Junior is now uncomfortable and makes a request "Sir, something for....", his voice trails off. I am going to catch this bull by the horns I decide.

I counter: "Sorry, I don't understand, for......". my voice trails off.

Junior:"Well, you see sir, its not for us but for saheb. If we don't take, we will get into trouble"

Me:"OK. I don't want to get you into trouble. Can I talk to your saheb please".

Junior: "He is not in. Look, sir, we did your work quickly".

Me:" This is a trivial issue, not a murder or robbery"

Junior: "No, sir, loss of phone number is not trivial. Think of all the calls, expense and time to notify your new number".

Junior is very very uncomfortable now and senior is fully awake. No one is watching the TV now.

Me: "I disagree, it is inconvenient and a hassle but not a big drama". At this point, I resolve, I am having no more of this. "When will Saheb be back?" I ask.

Junior: [muttering] I don't know, err, 9 o'clock at night (Its 5 PM now, a good 4 hours away). I decide to end this.

Me: [getting up with a namaskar]. "If this is your position, I no longer want my FIR. Please keep it. I will put up with the inconvenience of a new number but I regret I cannot comply with your request" Junior and Senior are aghast and dumbfounded. They look at each other and have the look of deer caught in head lights. I start backing away to the exit.

Senior looks worried and confused at the same time. Tells Junior to give me my FIR. Junior hands it to me. I take it, thank both of them profusely and walk out rather pleased with myself. Junior and Senior still look confused and annoyed.

I drive to a good mithai shop, buy a kilo of mixed mithai and return to the police station. Junior greets me uncertainly. I give him the mithai box and wish him well. The tension is broken. They look relieved.

Both insist I take a seat, the mithai box is opened and passed around. Senior rattles orders "pecial" (special) chai from a joint outside and there is general bonhomie. They tell me, this was not needed. I respond by saying, "I can't give you what you want but happy to share some food"

We sit around and chat for another 15 minutes. As I leave, both warmly extend an invitation for me to visit the thana whenever I want. They look much relieved. I believe their invitation was genuine.

That's the story.

The moral: Take a stand and don't blink first. It worked this time.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Tanaji »

Good story

Just out of curiosity: What language did you use?
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by rahulm »

Sudh Marathi all the time.
Rahul Mehta
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Rahul Mehta »

rahulm wrote:The moral: Take a stand and don't blink first. It worked this time.
The moral of the story is : such tactics work in petty issues only.

A friend I know had to pay Rs 5000/- (rupees five thousand only) of bribe to register FIR for accident in which his car was totaled by a truck. Now PSI knew that he would lose all the insurance money worth say Rs 500,000 if he doesnt have copy of FIR. The accident happened at 2 am some 400 km away from Ahmedabad. So PSI also knew that person wants to go home and sleep, and doesnt want to come back again and waste a day. So no haggling worked. PSI asked for Rs 5000/- upfront and did not decrease it by a penny. "Dont blink" technique will NOT work here at all, as person is desperate to get FIR filed and amount at stake is Rs 500,000.

In Gujarat, going rate of FIR for theft/accident of vehicle is Rs 500 plus 1% of vehicle's value. And to be fait to cops, they do NOT take bribe from doctors !! A doctor friend of mine, after getting FIR filed for stolen scooter pulled out Rs 500 note without asking, and the PSI said "aare saheb, hum doctor logo se paise nahi lete !!" :)

And consider real or false complain of 498A. The PI charge anywhere from Rs 5000 to Rs 100,000 for not arresting accused right away, but one week later !! The arrest cant be averted - 1-2 week is the biggest time limit PI can give. If the accused doesnt pay bribe, he will be arrested immediately and beaten mercilessly. And if the accused pays bribes, PI will come back for arrest after 1 week, and accused gets time to get anticipatory bail. I heard a case of NRI who was accused of 498A. When that NRI heard that wife has filed 498A complaint, he rushed to the nearest airport to flee out of India. But PI was efficient and he reached airport before the flight takes off. PI made Rs 250,000 clean !!! Now thats what I call negotiation skills !! Now let me not ask -- will 'take a stand and don't blink first' tactic work? Because I know - it wont work. Even if that NRI was MMS's son, he would have paid the bribe to get out of India.

So IMO, we must focus on systemic reforms ONLY. IMO, there No point in counting microscopic cases of successes.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by rahulm »

+1

I hope I never have to go beyond petty issues as I suspect RM is right. Systemic reforms are the only enduring solution.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Rahul Mehta »

Something one can notice from following news item

http://www.expressindia.com/latest-news ... th/499465/

===

Arrest warrant issued against Amin over custodial death
Express News Service
Aug 08, 2009

Surat The court of Umergaon Judicial Magistrate First Class on Friday issued an arrest warrant against Deputy Superintendent of Police Dr N K Amin and Sub-Inspector J K Jhala for their alleged role in the custodial death of late Colonel Pratap Salve in Umergaon way back in 2000. Judge S R Singh has directed the two officers to be present in court on October 1, the next day of the hearing.

Amin is at present lodged in the Sabarmati Central Jail in Ahmedabad in connection with the Sohrabuddin Shaikh fake encounter case. The case relates to 2000. Colonel Salve had started a movement by the name of Kinara Bachav Sangharsh Samiti (KBSS) in Umergaon taluka of Valsad district after the state government had declared the construction of a port for petroleum and liquefied gas in the taluka. The port would have affected a lot of people, especially the fishermen, and Colonel Salve took active part in the agitation.

On April 7, 2000, the Umergaon police picked up Colonel Salve from his house in Dehri village in Umergaon and lodged a case of unlawful assembly and rioting, charging him under Sections 133, 147,114, among others, of the IPC.

The police pressurised him to quit the movement and upon denial, severely beat him up in custody. Colonel Salve suffered head and chest injuries and was first taken to Mamta Hospital in Umergaon and then shifted to Jeewan Sathi Hospital in Vapi. He was later referred to the Hinduja Hospital in Mumbai and underwent two head surgeries, but died in the hospital on April 20, 2000. The late Colonel’s widow Sunita then filed a case against Amin and Jhala with the Umergaon police station under Sections 302 and 114 of the IPC. The State CID started investigations into the matter and produced the report to the court which claimed that Colonel Salve had died of severe injuries in police custody.

The family members of Colonel Salve now see the arrest warrant against the accused police officers as a positive step. Colonel Salve is survived by his wife Sunita (60) and two sons Akhilesh (32) and Gopi (31).

Sunita said: “We were expecting the step earlier. It has taken nine long years. Now we are happy that the court has issued an arrest warrant against Dy SP Dr N K Amin and police officer J K Jhala. My husband’s death was not in vain. Many people have been benefited as the proposal of developing a port in Umergaon is still pending. Our demand is that the accused officers be punished strictly so that such incidents do not recur.” Akhilesh said: “Now the case will be shifted to the Session Court in Valsad. Our demand is that a Special Fast Track Court should be constituted for this case. We have full faith in the judiciary.”At present, the KBSS movement has been stopped as the state government has not taken any step to develop a port in Umergaon.

=== end of news =====

IPS officer Dr. Narendra Amin Saheb (*) had mercilessly beaten Colonel Salve in 1999, as if Salve was some third rate criminal. There were numerous fractures in Salve's skull and Salve went into coma and died 14 days later. Nothing happened against Amin Saheb for 10 years. SCjs kept issuing 3 month dates. Ten years later, SCjs, IPS of CBI want Amin Saheb to become a crown witness in Soharbbhai's case against Amit Shah, Vanzara and company. So the SCjs pressurize the Lower Court judge to conduct hearing against Amin Saheb. And now, last I hear, IPS officers of CBI are offering deal to Amin Saheb -- that if Amin becomes witness in Soharbbhai's case, then the case of Salve's murder will be withdrawn !!

This case show how rotten our state police IPS, CBI IPS, Lower Court judges and SCjs are. IPS of State Police merrily kill social activist in custody as if it is a sport - and no fear of punishment. A good social activist is killed police custody in broad day light in front of many people, and judges including SCjs do nothing for 10 years. No policemen who had beaten Salve is arrested for 10 years. And a professional criminal (Soharbbhai) is killed, and SCjs become hyper-active in 6 months !! IPS officers of CBI too become hyper-active and imprison 4 IPS officers. And when no evidence is found in Soharabbhai's case, one IPS is forced to become crown witness. And that IPS who murdered good retired colonel and social-activist is let-off in return for his testimony. So judges, CBI IPS are trading away a dead body of good retired colonel Salve to give "justice" to a professional murderer, professional extortionist and habitual rapist Soharabbhai !! Is there a limit to which IPS and judges can stoop? Or is there no bottom in this pit?

Trivia on Amin Saheb : Dr. Amin Saheb was DySP when he killed retd Colonel Salve. And Amin Saheb was MBBS before he joined police force. How many MBBS do you see in US joining DySP level position? Nearly zero. Why do PhDs in Chemistry, Physics and MBBS in India join mid-level positions in police, customs, income tax etc in India, while such cases are unheard in US? Can a BRite rise and post the answer?

Trivia on Soharabbhai's murder : As rumor mill says, Shri NaMo Saheb had charged Rs 10 cr (rupee ten crores only) to kill Soharbbhai. The rumor came in FIRST page of Gujarat Samachar, and this it is a main stream rumor. And IPS officers Vanazara, Amin etc did the kill as per orders of NaMo. Soharbbhai was agent Bhai Shiromani Dawoodbhai and was also agent of No. 3 Mining Family in India. Dawood and the third largest Mining Family requested SCjs, CBI to give justice to Soharbbhai, and thats the reason why you see so much hyperactivity, as if Soharbbhai was some VVIP.

Old man Donald had a farm .... EIEIO
And on his farm he had some scumbags .... EIEIO
Here a scumbag,
There a scumbag ,
Everywhere a scumbag, scumbag ....
Old man Donald had a farm .... EIEIO



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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by rahulm »

Its not the job of the Police to determine guilt and deliver punishment, neither is it of the general populace and that's another topic. However, both these parties have no moral. ethical or legal compunctions indulging in 3rd degree treatment.

Therefore, the commons as well as the Police have usurped the judiciary. This is illegal.

Its brutal, inhuman and not fitting a civilised police force in a civilised society.

Its seems to have tacit acceptance of society going by the casualness with which such activity is talked about in parties and other conversations.

The commons aside, I have great difficulty in understanding how the Police have the courage to commit 3rd degree with impunity.It seems to be a throwback to the imperial days of the British. The current police mindset is to continue to rule the commons, not serve and herein lies the ideological problem (paraphrasing from Police Reforms in India, J.Y Umranikar, IPS). That and lack of accountability.

What to speak of commons when the police did not spare even the widow of ACP Ashok Kamte, Vinita Kamte in her quest to clear her husbands name. She was stonewalled at every step including her RTI applications. Eventually, she says, the RTI was instrumental in getting her past the stonewalling.

I remember, during election time, MMS promised to improve governance in the country. In time, possibly, the RTI may be a good legacy for him as it is systemic reform which affects all of government.

Although, RTI by itself won't be enough, it's now up to the people to use it in force to create momentum for the change that is overdue.

As an aside, I heard recently, committing perjury is not an offence in India. If true, explains why people make any and all kinds of assertions in affidavits. There is no price to be paid if the assertions are subsequently proven to be false.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

rahulm wrote:Its brutal, inhuman and not fitting a civilised police force in a civilised society.
Who said India is currently a civilised society? ;). If the police (the security agency which the people see first hand) needs to change, the people should first of all agree on whether such a thing is required in the first place. Next if we require a police force, then let the people through the elected representatives redefine the charter for the police forces. And then redraft pretty much every single law which is connected with policing and make it up to date are more relevant for the current time.

Today most people have only problems with the police force. The elected representatives also find it the favorite whipping boy. How ever the "whipping boy" have also understood some of the powers which it can wield effectively and make money (and survive). So a classic case of Kaatile maram, thevarude aana.. valiyeda vali (the trees are from the forest, we have the temple elephants to pull the chopped trees for transporting. So let us make the maximum out of it).

Torture by the way is not limited to police forces only. In case of theft, if the thief is caught red-handed the beating they get itself is too horrible. In many cases (at least in Kerala), the police now do not "arrest" or officially take into custody any thief who seems to be badly injured and brought to the station by a mob. I know a case of a Police SI with 6 months to get retired. He was the station charge in a night when such a beaten up thief was brought in. The SI made the big mistake for recording the arrest and keeping him in the lock-up. That chap started having health problems, and he died on the way to the hospital. Media, human rights champions all declared that this was a custodial death. The SI was suspended and his pension benefits were with held till the case gets decided in the court. It became the personal concern of the SI to fight his case out.

The people also wants quick justice to be meted out, and this is also a problem for the police.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Rahul Mehta »

rahulm wrote:Its not the job of the Police to determine guilt and deliver punishment, neither is it of the general populace and that's another topic. However, both these parties have no moral. ethical or legal compunctions indulging in 3rd degree treatment. Therefore, the commons as well as the Police have usurped the judiciary.
If policemen dont kill criminals and instead present them before learned judges, criminals will give bribes to learned judges, get bail and get away. eg Dawoodbhai (back then he was only a Badaa Bhai, and not yet a Bhai Shiromani) had caused near fatal injury on two cops. The cops were furious and made a water tight case. The session judge too got scared of policemen, and sentenced Dawoodbhai for 7 years. An Honorable High Court justice took bribe and gave bail to Dawoodbhai. Dawoodbhai escaped to Dubai and became Bhai Shiromani with the help of ISI=CIA. Now lets say Soharabbhai was presented before an Honorable Justice. Chances are over 100% that that Honorable Justice would have taken a bribe and bailed Soharabbhai. And Soharabbhai would have bumped off many more people. Which is why, I, Rahul Mehta, a common man, had personally ordered CM, HomeMin, all IPS officers like Vanazara Saheb etc that if a dreaded criminal is arrested, DO NOT present him before a judge but go for an out of court settlement. So if CM, Vanazara Saheb etc did an "out of court settlement" on Soharabbhai, I am as much to be blamed as CM etc. In fact, I want to write a letter to CBI and SCjs to request them to add my name in the chargesheet of Soharabbhai's out of court settlement case. Because I personally believe that it was due to my order as common man, they did out of court settlement. I am not sure how many commons in Gujarat/India had ordered CM, HomeMin etc of out of court settlement. If they did, IMO, their names too should be added in the chargesheet.

Is that uncivilized? Let me ask you ALL a question. Say Vanazara Saheb has placed a gun at Soharabbhai's head. Say are are at that spot. And say Vanazara Saheb asks you "Sir, shall I take him before judge or shall I go for an out of court settlement?" And then he waits for your order. What would be your order ?

Plato told me that in politics and ethics, answer you questions before you ask. So I will answer my question. I will order Vanazara Saheb to do an out of court settlement. Why? Soharabbhai was a professional murderer, professional extortionist and a habitual rapist. If Soharabbhai was presented before a learned judge, then learned judge would have taken bribe and bailed him. Next, Soharabbhai could have killed anyone - me, my relative - anyone. I am too coward to take chances. So I prefer out of court settlement. What would be your command to Vanazara Saheb?

But what I did not ask Ministers, IPS was to take money. My order to CM, HomeMin etc was to do out of court settlement for free (or bribe of Re 1 only and not more). The rumor mill says that Rs 10 cr was taken to kill Soharabbhai, something that should been done for Re 1. So I want Narco test of IPS in public. After that I will decide next step. And I had also said that "out of court settlement" should be used ONLY for bhai-log, not for shaaNaa-log like Colonel Salve. But IPS, Ministers etc have started bumping off shaaNaa-log, as well, and started taking supaari for killing bhai-log. For this too, I want Narco Test on IPS involved in this, and I will decide after results of Narco Test.

===
The commons aside, I have great difficulty in understanding how the Police have the courage to commit 3rd degree with impunity.It seems to be a throwback to the imperial days of the British. The current police mindset is to continue to rule the commons, not serve and herein lies the ideological problem (paraphrasing from Police Reforms in India, J.Y Umranikar, IPS). That and lack of accountability.
Commons docare. But they see themselves as helpless as they dont have procedures to expel IPS. Insha-commons, one day we will have Right to Recall over Police Chiefs, CMs, judges in India and we commons using RTR will put an end to this mess. Meanwhile, for IPS, killing bad guys is as easy my killing bad guys while playing video games. Lets not worry about that. Sad part is they have started taking money for killing people. And so some IPS have also started killing good guys. Otherwise, most IPS are still honest i.e. they kill only bad guys (for money).
Although, RTI by itself won't be enough, it's now up to the people to use it in force to create momentum for the change that is overdue.
RTI is useless. The proposed RTI2 (see http://rahulmehta.com/001.pdf , http://rahulmehta.com/001.h.pdf , http://rahulmehta.com/001.g.pdf , http://rahulmehta.com/001.b.pdf ) will solve this problem in 120 days.

===
Sachin wrote:Who said India is currently a civilised society?
[Putting on anti-RM element hat]

Admins,

Can you suspend Sachin for making such an anti-India comment? :P
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Tanaji »

Ah, the usual hoary chestnuts from Mehta saab.

See, Rahul Mehta used to ridicule RTI and say its useless. Given its popularity and effectiveness, it became inconvenient to do so, so he has come up with RTI2, something that merely puts the thing on a website and is called new.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Surya »

Sigh another post of the great me me me me RM



anyway making copies of FIR reminds me of what we had to do to file an FIR

the cops at the station were overstretched and had no vehicle to use 9the one jeep was being used somewhere else). The head constable sheepishly asked us if we get a rickshaw which we did , brought him to our house, and then dropped him back at the station.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

Community policing initiatives in Kerala (The Hindu)

The Global Conclave on Community Policing held in Kochi provided glimpses of a silent revolution in police-people partnership that has occurred in Kerala over the last three years.

Article by B.Sandhya IPS, IGP, Kerala.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by niran »

Rahul Mehta wrote:
If An Honorable High Court justice took bribe and gave bail to Dawoodbhai. Dawoodbhai escaped to Dubai and became Bhai Shiromani with the help of ISI=CIA. Now lets say Soharabbhai was presented before an Honorable Justice. Chances are over 100% that that Honorable Justice would have taken a bribe and bailed Soharabbhai. And Soharabbhai would have bumped off many more people. Which is why, I, Rahul Mehta, a common man, had personally ordered CM, HomeMin, all IPS officers like Vanazara Saheb etc that if a dreaded criminal is arrested, DO NOT present him before a judge but go for an out of court settlement. So if CM, Vanazara Saheb etc did an "out of court settlement" on Soharabbhai, I am as much to be blamed as CM etc. In fact, I want to write a letter to CBI and SCjs to request them to add my name in the chargesheet of Soharabbhai's out of court settlement case. Because I personally believe that it was due to my order as common man, they did out of court settlement. I am not sure how many commons in Gujarat/India had ordered CM, HomeMin etc of out of court settlement. If they did, IMO, their names too should be added in the chargesheet.

Is that uncivilized? Let me ask you ALL a question.
Yeees, it uncivilized, and liable to be sued for malingering character of Judges. so let me ask you this. do you have any proof the Judge took bribe to provide bail? if so then you have been aiding and abetting a crime by not coming out which in plain and simple words you are liable to be prosecuted as criminal if you have proof and been sitting on it, you are liable to be prosecuted if you do not have proof and posting on a public forum, a situtation i personally will not like me to be in.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Rahul Mehta »

niran wrote:Yeees, it uncivilized, and liable to be sued for malingering character of Judges. so let me ask you this. do you have any proof the Judge took bribe to provide bail?
Hundreds of times, postors here have insulted Sharad Pawar, Kalmdadi, Honorable Justice Dinakaran, A Raja etc by calling them corrupt, and no one ever gave any evidences. I never saw YOU complaining then. I wonder what is so big deal for you when I insult the judge who bailed Dawood. In case, if you are so much of a judge-rakshak, pls feel free to sue me ASAP. Yes, pls go ahead and sue me. What is stopping you?

And in case you have proof that judges in general are less corrupt than policemen, pls do post that proof. Because most people in India believe that judges are far far MORE corrupt than policemen. And we know how non-corrupt policemen are. People have less faith in judges than they have in policemen and Ministers. And people have far less respect for judges than they have for policemen and Ministers. Which is why, when a criminal is given bail, it is natural for people to assume that judges took bribe.

===

And one more bail case for that matter. SPS Rathore ex-DIG Haryana who had molested teenage girl and forced to her commit suicide got bail by SCjs. I believe that SCjs took bribe in this case as well. You have problems with my beliefs?
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

Indian police system needs reforming: Toronto Police chief Alok Mukherjee (Mathrubhumi:English)
The 68-year-old Mukherjee, who came to Canada in 1971 as a student, regretted that India treats its police officers well, but not the constables who do the actual policing work. 'Look at their cops' salaries which are very low. This is an invitation to corruption in policing.'
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

Sachin, A timely book to look at

Practical Bomb Scene investigation
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Aditya Watts »

While noticing this recent article on Hindustan Times about a man hunt with 600 police personnel to find a car with suspected physical abusers in Delhi, I was thinking whether police in India has access to aerial support (for example helicopters) or not? I could not find much regarding this, perhaps the gurus can shed a light on this?
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

Aditya Watts wrote:I was thinking whether police in India has access to aerial support (for example helicopters) or not?
As far as I know, none of the police forces in India have their own 'departmental' helicopters. Forces involved in naxal hunting, have been provided helicopters from the Air Force. I am not too sure, but guess a few helicopters from private firms are also taken on lease, and these are mainly used to ferry troops quickly (and never used as a attack helicopter). A US style 'helicopter hovering with a search light, and police cars chasing a suspect on the road below', I don't think it happens in India :(.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Aditya Watts »

Sachin wrote:
Aditya Watts wrote:I was thinking whether police in India has access to aerial support (for example helicopters) or not?
As far as I know, none of the police forces in India have their own 'departmental' helicopters. Forces involved in naxal hunting, have been provided helicopters from the Air Force. I am not too sure, but guess a few helicopters from private firms are also taken on lease, and these are mainly used to ferry troops quickly (and never used as a attack helicopter). A US style 'helicopter hovering with a search light, and police cars chasing a suspect on the road below', I don't think it happens in India :(.
Thanks for your insights.

True, I have read about the anti-naxal operations and the aerial support for that purpose. I guess the regular police forces are quite far from this scenario where choppers track cars on the road since it requires a massive overhaul of the present coordination policies and of course another important factor: funding.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Sachin »

Aditya Watts wrote:requires a massive overhaul of the present coordination policies and of course another important factor: funding.
To get a trained pilot (for helicopter or an air craft) in India is also a very very tough ask. Perhaps if any police force requires to have one on its rolls, he may be paid much above the Dir.Gen. of Police :D. Add to this the facilities and men for routine maintenance work etc.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ASPuar »

The structure of the Indian policing system makes it very difficult to have specialist cadres. It is essentially a bureaucracy, with very entrenched power centers. The IPS is the numero uno center, and noone else can be above it. Since IPS is recruited centrally, and does not cater for telecom/flying/engineering/legal cadres, it is tough for the state govt to hire such specialised cadres, since they need to be given competitive pay/perks/ranks, to the best, which is not allowed.

This is largely because the backbone of the police system is still the same as it was when India gained her independence. The system is largely inherited from that established by the Imperial Police, a service which was recruited by the Secretary of State for India. The result is that we still have a master/servant relationship with our police forces, and a centrally controlled police, instead of a community based police, like that which is seen in most advanced nations.

Same goes for the "land revenue" system of administration. If anything needs to change, we need to first change all this. I strongly believe that no one person is stronger than the system. And if the system is designed to control and coerce the people, then that is what it will do. No matter if any individual who joins police service may want to serve and protect, or whatever else.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ASPuar »

Rahul Mehta wrote:And in case you have proof that judges in general are less corrupt than policemen, pls do post that proof. Because most people in India believe that judges are far far MORE corrupt than policemen. And we know how non-corrupt policemen are. People have less faith in judges than they have in policemen and Ministers. And people have far less respect for judges than they have for policemen and Ministers.
You're assuming quite a lot here, Mehtaji... I dont think there are any metrics to back up what you are saying. :wink:
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

Sachin, Do socialize that book. It has great stuff of utility for the Police.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ASPuar »

Reforms should also put into place a strict system of accountability, so that things like this dont happen with a frightening regularity. This fellow was an NRI, so he was stupid enough to try and complain. Most people dont even bother raising their voice, and take such abuse with resignation... This case happened months ago, and a report was promised in a week, but nothing ever came of it. If even a trainee IPS officer behaves like this, imagine what he will do when he becomes an SP?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 835346.cms
Bihar cops beat NRI, dad for overtaking IPS officer's car
IANS, Apr 20, 2010, 01.26pm IST

An NRI businessman from Russia and his elderly father were allegedly beaten by policemen in Bihar's Patna district for overtaking the vehicle of a probationer Indian Police Service (IPS) officer. A probe has been ordered, authorities said Tuesday.

Shajendra Bihari Singh, in his early 40s, was beaten Sunday after he overtook the car of IPS officer Vivek Kumar when he was on his way from Jehanabad to native Dharhara village in Punpun near Patna.

"I was beaten like a criminal by policemen. I was innocent and I did not violate law of the land, but police treated me like a criminal and beat me with bamboo sticks and hands," Shajendra Singh, who owns a restaurant business in Russia, told IANS.

"My only crime was that I overtook the vehicle of a police officer of Jehanabad. He was angered and stopped my vehicle few minutes later. He started abusing and beating me."

He said the policemen thrashed his father Brijbihari Singh, who was with him. "Also, we were taken to Parsa Bazar police station and beaten again there," he added.

The NRI, who displayed marks of injuries on his body, lodged a complaint but police refused to register a case.

"Local police officers and Bihar's top police officers whom I contacted for justice downplayed the incident. They discouraged me to raise voice against the injustice," he said.

The Russia-based restaurateur then lodged a complaint at the chief judicial magistrate in Patna civil court Monday and petitioned the State Human Rights Commission for justice.

Additional Director General (police headquarters) P.K. Thakur said: "A probe has been ordered into the case. We have asked the DIG (deputy inspector general) to investigate into the case and submit a report within a week."
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Rahul Mehta »

ASPuar wrote:Reforms should also put into place a strict system of accountability, so that things like this dont happen with a frightening regularity. This fellow was an NRI, so he was stupid enough to try and complain. Most people dont even bother raising their voice, and take such abuse with resignation... This case happened months ago, and a report was promised in a week, but nothing ever came of it. If even a trainee IPS officer behaves like this, imagine what he will do when he becomes an SP?

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 835346.cms

=========================
Bihar cops beat NRI, dad for overtaking IPS officer's car
IANS, Apr 20, 2010, 01.26pm IST

An NRI businessman from Russia and his elderly father were allegedly beaten by policemen in Bihar's Patna district for overtaking the vehicle of a probationer Indian Police Service (IPS) officer. A probe has been ordered, authorities said Tuesday.

Shajendra Bihari Singh, in his early 40s, was beaten Sunday after he overtook the car of IPS officer Vivek Kumar when he was on his way from Jehanabad to native Dharhara village in Punpun near Patna.

"I was beaten like a criminal by policemen. I was innocent and I did not violate law of the land, but police treated me like a criminal and beat me with bamboo sticks and hands," Shajendra Singh, who owns a restaurant business in Russia, told IANS.

"My only crime was that I overtook the vehicle of a police officer of Jehanabad. He was angered and stopped my vehicle few minutes later. He started abusing and beating me."

He said the policemen thrashed his father Brijbihari Singh, who was with him. "Also, we were taken to Parsa Bazar police station and beaten again there," he added.

The NRI, who displayed marks of injuries on his body, lodged a complaint but police refused to register a case.

"Local police officers and Bihar's top police officers whom I contacted for justice downplayed the incident. They discouraged me to raise voice against the injustice," he said.

The Russia-based restaurateur then lodged a complaint at the chief judicial magistrate in Patna civil court Monday and petitioned the State Human Rights Commission for justice.

Additional Director General (police headquarters) P.K. Thakur said: "A probe has been ordered into the case. We have asked the DIG (deputy inspector general) to investigate into the case and submit a report within a week."
Such complaints in US (generally alleged as race or over-reaction) drastically reduced after US Police Chiefs started putting cameras on top of all police cars which can see front as well as back. So any rash action by a policeman or civilian gets recorded on video. In addition, Policemen are required to keep a walkie-talkie with them so all the voice etc reaches control station and is recorded. The US Police Chiefs did so, because citizens in US have procedures to expel him, and so Police Chiefs always want to ensure that citizens are convinced that Police Chief tried his best to reduce complaint. Here, we cant expel Police Chief and so police chiefs only want to collect cash.

===

Newspapers say that Nitish has moved a magic wand and solved all such problems of Bihar. Looks like the victim doesnt read newspapers. IMO, he should read newspapers and convince himself that such things no longer happen in Bihar, and his experience was just some illusion.

.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ASPuar »

And now this... IPS officers in the CBI protecting their bretheren in the states. If there are to be any checks and balances, IPS should be removed from CBI, and a seperate cadre should administer that agency.


http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... z18lWj3Dyt
Ruchika case: Key witness accuses CBI of altering his statement
Rajinder Nagarkoti, TNN, Dec 21, 2010, 05.16pm IST

PANCHKULA: Raising a huge question over Central Bureau of Investigation's credibility, the key witness in the Ruchika Girhotra case on Tuesday claimed that the central investigation agency had altered his statement in the closure report.

The key witness Vijay Dheer, who resided in the house opposite to Ruchika Girhotra in Sector 6, Panchkula, said that the CBI had lied and distorted his statement he gave to the premier investigation agency in February this year.

Vijay Dheer said that he had told the CBI that Ruchika's brother Ashu was handcuffed and paraded semi-naked in the locality on December 25, 1993 and brutally beaten up by the Haryana cops. Dheer said that he was an eyewitness and recorded the same with the CBI.

But the CBI in the closure report stated, "The shop keepers of Sector 6 market, Panchkula have stated that they neither heard nor saw Ashu being paraded by the police in half naked condition with hand cuffs in December 1993. The neighbours of SC Girhotra in his lane at Sector 6, Panchkula also denied having seen parading of Ashu on December 25, 1993."

Among the list of 76 witnesses, the CBI has listed Vijay Dheer at No. 71.

Meanwhile Ruchika's father SC Girhotra said that he was very disappointed. "The entire investigation by the CBI was an attempt to provide relief to Rathore," he added.

"I had also written a letter to the home ministry in February this year complaining about the biased attitude of CBI. Even the special secretary of home ministry had assured me to take necessary action," Girhotra said.

Recently CBI had filed its closure report in the two FIRs which were registered against former Haryana DGP SPS Rathore before the Ambala special CBI court.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

How does the law of torts work in India? Can the family sue CBI for the false reports?
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Rahul Mehta »

ramana wrote:How does the law of torts work in India? Can the family sue CBI for the false reports?
Yes. The family case sue CBI. But given that SCjs have decided to side with rapist child molester ex-DIG SPS Rathore , I dont think must will come out of the law-suit. In fact, when SCjs gave bail to SPS Rathore, IE covered the news under carpet by a summary report in page-6, and did no aggressive reporting. Even National COmmission of Women doesnt want to persue this case. IMO, Rathore must have hired some Radia type powerful lobbyist who has covered SCjs, media and even National Women's Commission. Suffices to say that existing laws are too weak for us commons to do anything needful. We need to fix the laws so that SPS Rathore, the CBI investigators who helped Rathore and the judges who helped Rathore can be imprisoned.
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ASPuar »

ramana wrote:How does the law of torts work in India? Can the family sue CBI for the false reports?
An interesting question. As Im sure youre already aware, the law of torts operates upon the principle of restitution in terms of damages. There could be a financial payout, but there will be no criminal action under the law of torts. And this being a criminal case, that would not lead to the appropriate closure in terms of justice. At any rate, tort suits in India are not a well developed area of law, and payouts are very low.

In criminal law, however, I can give you a brief precis of the relevant statutes that an act such has allegedly been committed by the CBI according to the news report above, would fall under:

Sec. 167 IPC: Public servant disobeying law, with intent to cause injury to any person.

Whoever, being a public servant, and being, as such public servant, charged with the preparation or translation of any document, frames or translates that document in a manner which he knows or believes to be incorrect, in- tending thereby to cause or knowing it to be likely that he may thereby cause injury to any person, shall be punished udth imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or with fine, or with both'.

Sec.218 IPC:- Public servant framing incorrect record or writing with intent to save person from punishment or property from forfeiture.

Whoever, being a public servant, and being as such public servant, charged with the preparation of any record or other writing, frames that record or writing in a manner which he knows to be incorrect, with intent to cause, or knowing it to be likely that he will thereby cause, loss or injury to the public or to any person, or with intent thereby to save, or knowing it to be likely that he will thereby save, any person from legal punishment, or with intent to save, or knowing that he is likely thereby to save, any property from forfeiture or other charge to which it is liable by law, shall be punished with im- prisonment of either description for a term which may extend to three years, or withfine, or with both.

Sec. 166 IPC:

Public servant disobeying law, with intent to cause injury to any person.

"Whoever, bring a public servant, knowingly disobeys any direction of law as to the way in which he is to conduct himself as such public servant, intending to cause, or knowing it to be likely that he will, by such disobedience, cause injury to any person, shall be punished with simple imprisonment for a term which may extend to one year, or with fine, or with both.

Sec. 217 IPC:

Public servant disobeying direction of law with intent to save person from punishment or property from forfeiture.

"Whoever , being a public servant, knowingly disobeys any direction of the law as to the way in which he is to conduct himself as such public servant, intending thereby to save, or knowing it to be likely that he will thereby save, any person from legal punishment, or subject him to a less punishment than that to which he is liable, or with intent to save, or knowing that he is likely thereby to save, any property from forfeiture or any charge to which it is liable by law, shall be punished with imprisonment of either description for a term which may extend to two years, or with fine, or with both.
So, perhaps the CBI personnel who performed this act of service for Mr Rathore (who was Ex DGP Haryana, and not the relatively junior DIG that RMji keeps terming him to be), could be booked under the law for filing a false affidavit, but then who did it, where did the criminal intent begin, etc, would be questions that would be very difficult to answer. Especially since, we are faced once again with the question, quis custodiet ipsos custodies?, or, who will watch over the watchmen? Who will investigate the Central Bureau of Investigation?
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ramana »

However criminal cases can be filed only by the State against the accused right? Can a citizen file a criminal case against the CBI? Or only a criminal complaint and then hope it gets some airing?
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by ASPuar »

They can file a criminal complaint. And itll likely die a quiet death. They could then file a PIL requesting that the court direct CBI to investigate thoroughly...
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Re: Indian Police Reform

Post by Haresh »

Indian police officers to be 'tagged'

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... agged.html
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