Indian Roads Thread

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 08 Apr 2015 21:09

Why was the high interest rates not folded into their model, when they bid for contracts. In the end it is their fault, otherwise every other entity with debts will have the same excuse, no ? Right from NDA days, there were no set asides for maintenance looks like.

I had earlier overestimated the civil costs for Kochi metro by a factor of 2, as the civil works was 25-30% not more of the entire project cost. So with the same Rs50K crores, one can in principle connect all major towns in KL with an elevated expressway. (TVM-Kochi-Kozikode-Kasargode).

The story does not end there, as the Bengaluru elevated expressway was costed in 2010 at Rs 25 crores per km. So it should be not more than 500km * 25 crore = 12,500 crores. Add a factor of 2 at most and it is still half of the estimate from Kochi metro's civil construction costs.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 08 Apr 2015 22:26

It's not fair to the road companies to take the blame for 'not modeling higher interest rates'. They submitted the bids. The government is the one who accepted them. And then the government itself mismanaged the economy leading to the situation. Like I said repeatedly here, there's a very good reason to take on the companies themselves, but the fact is punishing a few of them to make an example of them, will not fix the underlying systemic problem of a) heavily debt laden infra companies b) overleveraged banks c) stalled projects d) lack of confidence in bidding for new projects. In fact, such punitive action can harm all the more holistic efforts to get the road building process up again.

MurthyB · Post by **MurthyB** » 09 Apr 2015 02:06

Speaking of driving videos, nothing beats the russians:

nawabs · Post by **nawabs** » 23 Apr 2015 07:03

States might lose road transport to Centre

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 030_1.html

A new law on public transport will allow the Centre to prevail over state governments in case of a dispute. The Road Transport and Safety Bill is likely to have a section saying the Union government "should take road transport under its control".

In instances such as the Delhi government's ban on taxi-hailing services Uber and Ola, the Centre could issue enforceable advice to states not to ban these.

The Bill is likely to be approved by the Union Cabinet next week. The government is planning to table the Bill in the current session of Parliament.

Road transport is now governed by the Motor Vehicles Act and Central Motor Vehicle Rules. State governments have their own legal frameworks. The Centre is overhauling the regime by bringing in the Road Transport and Safety Bill, which will override the Motor Vehicles Act.

"It is expedient in the public interest that the Union should take road transport under its control," says Section 2 of the draft Bill. There was no provision entrusting the control of road transport to the Centre in the Motor Vehicles Act.

An official in the road transport ministry said the new law was designed to help states better organise road transport. On whether Section 2 would undermine state legislatures, he said the matter was in the concurrent list of the Constitution.

"The states and the Centre have well-defined roles and there is almost no overlapping of jurisdiction currently. In case of differences, the issues are referred to the Transport Development Council chaired by the Union transport minister. All state transport ministers are members of it," said S P Singh, coordinator of the Indian Foundation for Transport Research and Training.

He, however, said enforcement of transport laws was the prerogative of the states. "Since each state has different requirements, they have the freedom to make their own motor vehicle rules and successive amendments to the laws," he said.

Article 254 of the Constitution says in case of inconsistency between laws made by Parliament and those made by state legislatures on matters listed in the concurrent list, those made by Parliament will prevail. Item 35 in the concurrent list in the seventh schedule of the Constitution puts mechanically propelled vehicles, including the principle on which taxes on such vehicles can be levied, in the domain of both the Centre and the state governments.

The official said though penalty for violation of traffic rules and the system of punching to record repeated violations would be enforceable by the new law, states would be free to frame other rules like those on issuing carriage permits. "States can also opt for auctioning these permits," he said.

The proposed law will also bring in road safety provisions. The creation of a National Transport Authority and a Road Safety Authority would equip states in dealing with transport issues, the official said.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 23 Apr 2015 13:37

^^^ Many states have raised objections to the proposed Road Safety Bill, which would in due course replace MV Act 1988. One critical aspect the states are concerned about is the collection of Motor Vehicle taxes, which now goes to the state's kitty. The states also have the liberty to set the tax rates and collection processes.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 30 Apr 2015 22:20

http://pluznews.com/business-economy/27 ... f-road.htm

“Millions hit across India as buses, taxis stay off road”

Millions of people across India faced a harrowing time on Thursday as buses and taxis did not ply to protest a bill that makes punishment for traffic violations much more stringent.

The strike is part of the nationwide agitation by major trade unions demanding repeal of the Road Transport and Safety Bill, 2014, and alleged anti-worker policies of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)-led central government.

The protest is against the hefty penalties that are proposed in the new bill such as Rs.50,000 for rash driving, Rs.10,000 for drunken driving and up to Rs.6,000 for over-speeding. The bill is to be put before the cabinet for approval.

The bill also proposes a regulatory authority, not only to advise the central and state governments on road safety, but also have the powers to ensure that the norms laid down are followed by all stake-holders.

Transporters say the penalties, along with the proposed norms on testing of vehicles, road-worthiness, licensing, among others, are too stringent.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 01 May 2015 02:27

MurthyB wrote:Speaking of driving videos, nothing beats the russians:

This is worse than anything I have seen.

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 01 May 2015 06:12

muraliravi wrote:http://pluznews.com/business-economy/27 ... f-road.htm

“Millions hit across India as buses, taxis stay off road”

Millions of people across India faced a harrowing time on Thursday as buses and taxis did not ply to protest a bill that makes punishment for traffic violations much more stringent.

The strike is part of the nationwide agitation by major trade unions demanding repeal of the Road Transport and Safety Bill, 2014, and alleged anti-worker policies of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)-led central government.

The protest is against the hefty penalties that are proposed in the new bill such as Rs.50,000 for rash driving, Rs.10,000 for drunken driving and up to Rs.6,000 for over-speeding. The bill is to be put before the cabinet for approval.

The bill also proposes a regulatory authority, not only to advise the central and state governments on road safety, but also have the powers to ensure that the norms laid down are followed by all stake-holders.

Transporters say the penalties, along with the proposed norms on testing of vehicles, road-worthiness, licensing, among others, are too stringent.

As much as i could see - there was almost ZERO effect of this Road Transport Strike in Chennai. Infact - I got caught in more traffic jams on this day on my daily route to my office than any other week day. It's almost an extended weekend holiday with MAY 1st being a Friday for some workers and there was heavy rush for buses through much of afternoon & night of this day !. All taxi cos like OLA, TaxiForsure and even Autos, private buses were working through the day. Stupid unions and their attempts to strike for reasons like these.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 May 2015 06:21

very limited effect in delhi as well.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 01 May 2015 11:19

The strike in Bangalore also was not of any use, and life was pretty much normal. Looks like from the "common man's" side there is no reason for the strike. One thing I have noticed is that none of the striking parties have given a point by point reference on why the proposed bill would be harmful for them or any one else. The usual mumbo-jumbo of "privatisation/corporatisation" etc is just thrown all around and people are expected to believe it.

Remember reading it some where, a cab driver in Bangalore was whining that after the new bill comes to an act, fines would be really steep for "minor offences" (as per him), like signal jumping etc

.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 01 May 2015 20:23

From that report the fines look too steep. What is going to happen is that the police will ask for more bribes than they do currently and there will be more harrasment. Today some people will rather pay the small fine than bribe. Tomorrow everyone is going to try to bribe. Sometimes a not so well thought out bill with the right intentions can actually backfire. I think this law needs to be revisited.

Vamsee · Post by **Vamsee** » 01 May 2015 23:25

Government to award 10,000 km of national highways this year

=========

Not sure if this is linked here or not. But what caught my eye is the below quote

"A target of award of 10,000 kms and completion of 10,950 kms of national highways has been fixed by Ministry of Road Transport and Highways for the year 2015-16," Minister of State for Road Transport and Highways Pon Radhakrishnan told Lok Sabha in a written reply.

Target for this fiscal year is 10950 kms.
10950/365 = 30kms per day!

This is what Nitin Gadkari has promised earlier. If they achieve 30 kms per day consistently for next few years, it would be highest ever road building period in Indian history.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 01 May 2015 23:31

muraliravi wrote:http://pluznews.com/business-economy/27 ... f-road.htm

“Millions hit across India as buses, taxis stay off road”

Millions of people across India faced a harrowing time on Thursday as buses and taxis did not ply to protest a bill that makes punishment for traffic violations much more stringent.

The strike is part of the nationwide agitation by major trade unions demanding repeal of the Road Transport and Safety Bill, 2014, and alleged anti-worker policies of the Bharatiya Janata Party (BJP)-led central government.

The protest is against the hefty penalties that are proposed in the new bill such as Rs.50,000 for rash driving, Rs.10,000 for drunken driving and up to Rs.6,000 for over-speeding. The bill is to be put before the cabinet for approval.

The bill also proposes a regulatory authority, not only to advise the central and state governments on road safety, but also have the powers to ensure that the norms laid down are followed by all stake-holders.

Transporters say the penalties, along with the proposed norms on testing of vehicles, road-worthiness, licensing, among others, are too stringent.

Strike!! where?? I did not notice it in Delhi. Zero effect, I think. Wasn't even aware.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 May 2015 23:51

Sachin wrote:The strike in Bangalore also was not of any use, and life was pretty much normal. Looks like from the "common man's" side there is no reason for the strike. One thing I have noticed is that none of the striking parties have given a point by point reference on why the proposed bill would be harmful for them or any one else. The usual mumbo-jumbo of "privatisation/corporatisation" etc is just thrown all around and people are expected to believe it.

Remember reading it some where, a cab driver in Bangalore was whining that after the new bill comes to an act, fines would be really steep for "minor offences" (as per him), like signal jumping etc .

one auto driver told me fine for jumping signal in the new bill is Rs 10k. is it true ?

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 02 May 2015 12:39

Rahul M wrote:one auto driver told me fine for jumping signal in the new bill is Rs 10k. is it true ?

Not 10K, but could be 1K. The fines have been steeply hiked, and I am sure that the violators would feel the pinch. Do you think any one really bothers about Rs.100/- as the maximum fine (as per Sec.177 MV Act) these days? The law was drafted in 1988, when perhaps that money was pricely. The proposed law also makes amending the fine amounts through a simple procedure. An amendment is not needed in the original act, to make corrections in the fines/punishments.
Road Transport Safety Bill - it is worth a read.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 May 2015 16:47

^^Look to page 280 for "Scheme for levying penalties including fines, imprisonment and impounding of vehicles"

Violation of traffic signals
1st offence - Rs.5,000 fine;
2nd offence -Rs. 10,000 fine
3rd offence - Rs. 15,000 fine, 1 month license suspension, and compulsory refresher training

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 03 May 2015 11:57

Thats ridiculously too high. More people will bribe.

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 03 May 2015 12:27

^^ privatise.

kvraghav · Post by **kvraghav** » 03 May 2015 13:32

whats the fine in countires like US for jumping signals?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 03 May 2015 13:42

Ridiculously high fines will invite ridiculously high bribes. Higher fines will help pay for expensive equipments and hopefully take the man (bribe taker) out of the loop. Net-Net will make jumping signals expensive either ways.

However, an increasing slab leading up to license suspension, etc will push more folks to bribe the cops and that is bad. I do not support bribes and hope for an efficient monitoring such that fines will flow to the government and get invested in traffic control infra.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 03 May 2015 14:26

You link Aadhaar Number to Bank Accounts and Car Registration plate. With high resolution cameras and radar guns just debit the fine and post email+sms challans. Dubai does it. Now a days Delhi Traffic police experiments with Radar guns and spot fines on IGIA road leading to T3. I saw this on a daily basis they were rounding up huge fines. Cars are now slowing down.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 04 May 2015 10:39

Supratik wrote:Thats ridiculously too high. More people will bribe.

This was highlighted and my understanding was the fines were reduced for first time offences in the next draft version. But what would happen is that bribe amounts would also increase, which again pinches the bribe giver (the offender). Today's fines are ridiculously low, so bribes are even lower

. But when say 1/10th of a person's salary goes as a fine, or half of it goes as a bribe still makes a person see reason.

My suggestion is that fines can be heavy, but automation has to be the key. Fines for offences which were detected by physical police presence, has to be slightly on the lower side. But any offence caught through cameras, speed radars etc. should have heavy fines. Because it is based on strong evidence.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 04 May 2015 10:54

kvraghav wrote:whats the fine in countires like US for jumping signals?

~ 200 USD. It is considered quite a serious violation. Several signals have cameras which capture the license plate image(s). The citation will be (snail)mailed. Any non-payment might result in suspended driver's license and or possible arrest if there ids another violation (or is it two?). If there is an arrest, the peson will be brought into the court room in chains

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 04 May 2015 20:26

We could start from licence test. It's very easy to get a licence in India. Some time back you could just go with an agent and give a driving test, not sure if this practice still exists.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 06 May 2015 10:41

No wonder my drives are becoming more and more frustrating, with some of average speeds becoming a super 9-10km per hour.

Chennai tops in vehicle density

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 06 May 2015 11:14

Aditya_V wrote:No wonder my drives are becoming more and more frustrating, with some of average speeds becoming a super 9-10km per hour.

Chennai tops in vehicle density

and chennai polis in "toll" collection sans receipt.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 06 May 2015 12:49

Plus one

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 11 May 2015 16:09

Going to BR Hills, starting tomorrow for 2 days from Chennai

Seeing the online whinning from soo many Bengalurians about the crowding in the Bengaluru Mysore road, Gundlupet Masinagudi. I think there should be law which make sure that for certain time of the Bengalurians Holiday at Goa, Karwar etc and kept away from Koorg, Bandipur, Gudalur, Masinagudi, BR Hills, Yelagiri, Yercaud etc. Just Kidding

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 May 2015 23:40

kvraghav wrote:whats the fine in countires like US for jumping signals?

Fine itself in not the only thing (500 in CA and 1 point on your DL) and depends on the state law. But as it is considered a moving violation it could get some points (1-4?) and that causes your insurance to shoot up for three years!

saip · Post by **saip** » 11 May 2015 23:48

hanumadu wrote:^^Look to page 280 for "Scheme for levying penalties including fines, imprisonment and impounding of vehicles"

Violation of traffic signals
1st offence - Rs.5,000 fine;
2nd offence -Rs. 10,000 fine
3rd offence - Rs. 15,000 fine, 1 month license suspension, and compulsory refresher training

It is time they really cracked down on the offenders. Once I had lot of difficulty crossing a street in HYD because no was stopping at the light. But how does one prove? If the traffic cop pulls you over and says you jumped the light when you did not what evidence will be required of the cop? This may give lot of incentive to the cops for shakedowns.

Hopefully they have hefty fines for those driving in the wrong side of the road (especially on the NHs). I saw school buses doing this besides the tractors and trucks.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 12 May 2015 19:23

saip wrote:If the traffic cop pulls you over and says you jumped the light when you did not what evidence will be required of the cop? This may give lot of incentive to the cops for shakedowns.

In cities like Bangalore these kind of offences are now not charged based on the police man's evidence alone. In many cases CCTV cameras does the recording, and Traffic police constables manning junctions are also given normal digital cameras. The offence is generally photographed. Perhaps what they could do is to make the fines very high if the violation is caught using modern gadgets where chances of tampering is very low. But fine which can be levied directly by police officers during any manual spot checks should be the bare minimum. Ideally the practise of "compounding fines" should be done away with, and every offence to be contested in the court of law. But that may be a problem due to India's huge population and slow judiciary.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 19 May 2015 02:49

Planning Rs 3 lakh cr of road projects in 6 months: Gadkari

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 19 May 2015 18:44

According to reports this financial year they have awarded about 8000 kms of highway projects. Next year the target is 10000 kms.

dnivas · Post by **dnivas** » 19 May 2015 22:05

With all the roads, I hope he allocates / empowers a new/old agency just to monitor quality of roads built. Also he mentions new highways will be made of cement which is maintenance free for 100 years.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 19 May 2015 23:18

I have a wish: Is there any chance of something like this coming up in crowded cities in India (Bengaluru, I am looking at you! ):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urban_Expr ... 28Japan%29

Urban expressways (都市高速道路 Toshi Kōsokudōro?) are intra-city expressways which are found in many of Japan's largest urban areas. Due to lack of space many of these expressways are constructed as viaducts running above local roads. The two largest networks are the Shuto Expressway in the Tokyo area and the Hanshin Expressway in the Osaka area. There are other smaller networks in Nagoya, Hiroshima, Kitakyūshū, and Fukuoka. Each network is managed separately from each other (the Fukuoka and Kitakyūshū Expressways are managed by the same company but are not physically connected to each other).

Currently all urban expressways operate on a flat-rate toll system (the toll is the same regardless of the distance travelled on the network), however both the Shuto Expressway and Hanshin Expressway are planning to move to a distance-based toll system for vehicles equipped with ETC.[1][2]

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 20 May 2015 02:45

I have a wish: Is there any chance of something like this coming up in crowded cities in India (Bengaluru, I am looking at you! ):

The Chinease have done it and frankly it turns any city into a concrete horror story. We need better public transport. Only that will solve the issues.
In Mumbai 85% of the travelers travel on public transport, yet the individual cars occupy most of the place. Cars have replaced gardens fronts and open spaces in the streets. They are the greatest source of misery for any city.
They should put a toll tax of RS 50K per month to use the car or pay RS 3000 per day. All public streets should be charged for parking.
If they removed 3,5 million cars from Bengaluru, the public transport would get faster and less pollution. As a matter of fact, most people would probably cut travel time. The taxes from 500K cars would give a cool income of 2500 crores a month. With that money it would be possible to finance a heck of a public transport system. It costs about RS 150 Crores per Km for a metro system. Hence it would be possible to construct an entire Delhi metro system every year (about 200 km). The people with cars would also be extremly happy as they would be able to zip across the city very fast.

Imagine doing that to Delhi, but with double the numbers. Within 10 years we could have 2000 Km of metro and fast trains.

In 2012, Delhi had the maximum number of cars in the country at 7.35 million, followed by Bangalore (4.1 million), Chennai (3.7 million), Hyderabad (3.3 million) and Pune (2.2 million). Surprisingly, Mumbai doesn't make the cut, coming in sixth with a little over 2 million cars.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 23 May 2015 20:03

Heard there was a 15km 8 hour traffic jam in NCR. So building out 8 lane expressways does not solve it. Toll booths further slow things down as traffic density increases exponentially.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 23 May 2015 21:02

Bade wrote:Heard there was a 15km 8 hour traffic jam in NCR. So building out 8 lane expressways does not solve it. Toll booths further slow things down as traffic density increases exponentially.

The article I read said the jam was because the operator closed 24 out of the 32 toll booths without notice on a trial basis.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 23 May 2015 21:21

Bade wrote:Heard there was a 15km 8 hour traffic jam in NCR. So building out 8 lane expressways does not solve it. Toll booths further slow things down as traffic density increases exponentially.

Saw some posts in FB that it was due to some stupid action of the Haryana Police and the AAPians were cursing that it was all BJP's fault

.

On a different note, driving in Chennai is becoming very tough these days especially the Tambaram- Chinglepet stretch. On Fridays, Mondays and long weekend it is even worse. I took a bus to Cumbum on 1st of May to attend a marriage from Perungalathur in Chennai outskirts. The bus started from Koyambedu on time and reached Perungalathur after 2.5 hours. Then there was traffic in all the toll booths and our bus reached 4.5 hours late and we missed the marriage Muhurtham. This is despite 4 lanes for 75% of the journey. Biggest issue is slow moving vehicles clogging both lanes and the consistent weaving between lanes to overtake the slow moving vehicles is extremely stressful. Traffic violation, driving on the wrong side of the roads and over speeding is very much prevalent in TN. No wonder the state fares poorly in road safety statistics.
I am finding MH and GJ (except Ahmedabad which seems to be jungle raaj on the roads) much better in traffic sense and road speed when compared to TN.

City traffic is faring no better. Daily office commute is becoming a nightmare. There are frequent reports of people missing flights these days in Chennai due to getting stuck in traffic. There are several junctions which required a flyover yesterday have no plans for flyovers even in the future. Metro is too late and will be addressing problems areas of the 90s. Traffic pattern is shifting to City's southern suburbs and there is not even a metro plan for that area. The DMK regime towards the end and this AIADMK regime have completely ignored infrastructure development and urban planning but rather focused on freebies. Don't have any hopes for the future.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 24 May 2015 10:50

Parveen Travels, a major player for staff transportation for the IT sector is plying 900 buses for the offices in Mahindra World city. There are another 300 buses from other operators. The Tambaram-Chingleput stretch has only three railway lines shared by both suburban and long distance trains. This reduces the number and frequency of suburban trains on the Tambaram-Chingleput stretch. OMR is another nightmare. The city needs an expressway that takesoff from Madhya Kailash and terminating at Vandalur branching off at Kelambakkam. This would allow for vehicles from South Chennai to take this route and ease traffic congestion on the GST road, at least upto Vandalur.