India's Power Sector

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jul 2012 09:04

http://www.thehindu.com/business/Indust ... epage=true
If Energy sector is weak for next decade or so, then we are not empowering for growth.. this is bad situation. From energy waste to conservation, and optimal use is vital for becoming a great power. We will not know how we are in abyss when the darkness befalls.. and it should not be too late. I hope we select and elect the right people for a change.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 06 Jul 2012 20:18

^^

The Central Electricity Authority (CEA) has already predicted a power shortfall of 10.5 per cent during 2012-13. “It is true that electricity is less in the country.

Thats always the case. Coupled with high AT&C losses of 35% or so and in some cases 40% remedy for current situation lies elsewhere.

However , increased requirement due to growth would have to be met by adopting prudent energy mix. This also requires huge investment and public funding may not be the way in future.

Also note that of total usage 30-35% goes towards lighting and HVAC needs and some of that could be met from non conventional sources.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 06 Jul 2012 21:14

As Indias A/C cooling needs rise we need to move to solar absorption chillers. New modern designs and chemicals allow operations with 75 C hot water. This is not a problem with India's heat. Also absorption chiller need to be combined with chilled beam systems, which minimize pumping losses. Incredibly as things get hotter, absorption chillers work better. For night time ice block is created to continue operation. Need per capita to rise above $5,000 first. These are a bit more expensive up front.

http://www.ashrae.org/File%20Library/do ... eature.pdf

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Jul 2012 21:38

simple combination of technology and natural building techniques can help too.. no house is spared to install solar panels, plus grow more trees all around .. which also means reduce the number of build area density too.

vines and creepers bring down heat too. plants to the rescue.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 07 Jul 2012 08:50

The main irritant is batteries. I have heard many cases wherein even batteries of reputed companies like exide go kaput in very short time. Mine went kaput in 1.5 years and I had to send a legal notice to the dealer to have him send it for service (even though under warranty). I good 150mAh battery costs 5k-6k these days and replacing them every 2 years needs to be factored in.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Jul 2012 11:39

What power shortage- we are exporting power to our well wisher Pakis - arent we?

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 07 Jul 2012 12:26

Yogi_G wrote:The main irritant is batteries. I have heard many cases wherein even batteries of reputed companies like exide go kaput in very short time. Mine went kaput in 1.5 years and I had to send a legal notice to the dealer to have him send it for service (even though under warranty). I good 150mAh battery costs 5k-6k these days and replacing them every 2 years needs to be factored in.

Yogi,

Make sure you maintain them. Esp. the cheap refurb types need to be topped with distilled water every 2-3 months. Also make sure your inverter has a limit switch that prevents draining of the batteries below 70% charge. Unless you have a deep cycle battery. My Dads been getting refurb car batteries for Rs 1200 a pop and has built a small bank of them. But they do have a tendency to fail. The local shop reconditions the battery for Rs 200 each time. And they are cheap to replace as well.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Jul 2012 12:42

For my invertor at home and Car I have deceided to move on to maintence free batteries , Invertor is 1 year old, Battery has guarantee of 18 months, so expect to change in less than 1 year, My invertor is rated 1.4 KW.

with Chennai 8 hour maintainence breaks life would be difficult if the Invertor is not there.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 07 Jul 2012 12:56

Theo_Fidel wrote:
Yogi_G wrote:The main irritant is batteries. I have heard many cases wherein even batteries of reputed companies like exide go kaput in very short time. Mine went kaput in 1.5 years and I had to send a legal notice to the dealer to have him send it for service (even though under warranty). I good 150mAh battery costs 5k-6k these days and replacing them every 2 years needs to be factored in.
Yogi,

Make sure you maintain them. Esp. the cheap refurb types need to be topped with distilled water every 2-3 months. Also make sure your inverter has a limit switch that prevents draining of the batteries below 70% charge. Unless you have a deep cycle battery. My Dads been getting refurb car batteries for Rs 1200 a pop and has built a small bank of them. But they do have a tendency to fail. The local shop reconditions the battery for Rs 200 each time. And they are cheap to replace as well.

Maybe I need to consider moving away from the maintenance free batteries based on what you say above. I have come to understand that these maintenance free batteries dont last more than 18 months and their only USP is "maintenance free". I would rather have them "maintained" every 2-3 months as you described and live with cheap refurb batteries.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Jul 2012 15:18

Yogi_G but with regular batteries remebering to distill and getting pure distill water is not so easy, and then you have to deal with the fumes. And in many cases, since they have more lead, they cost 1.5-2x maintanance free.

P.S- Why do you need them if going to Massa

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 07 Jul 2012 22:24

Aditya_V wrote:Yogi_G but with regular batteries remebering to distill and getting pure distill water is not so easy, and then you have to deal with the fumes. And in many cases, since they have more lead, they cost 1.5-2x maintanance free.

P.S- Why do you need them if going to Massa

Aditya ji, in terms of cost I was referring to what Theo ji said on using cheap refurb batteries. At 1,200 rupees a piece they do come by much cheaper. I plan to provide my inverter and battery to my in laws for their use, once I come back will probably get new ones so I will have to see what type of battery to get then.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Jul 2012 00:17

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 825265.cms

While most of India sweltered this extended summer, the people charged with delivering electricity to the country barely broke a sweat. Power outages through June and July averaged over 36,000 MW - roughly 18% of India's installed generating capacity of 2,02,980 MW. Outages across the country routinely cause 16-hour blackouts in cities. Nearly 25% of India's population (over 300 million) still has no access to electricity. That contrasts sharply with those in power. The VIP precinct of Lutyens' Delhi, for example, never suffers power outages.

Unbridled power theft, often with official connivance, is a major cause for the chronic electricity shortage that bedevils India - hurting farmers, industrialists and traders alike. The other cause is bad governance. Transmission and distribution (T&D) losses are over 32% of installed generating capacity compared to the global average of 10%.

Shortage of coal - again a direct result of misgovernance of our natural resources - has worsened the crisis. Mumbai's island city is one of the few urban areas in India where there have been no power cuts stretching back decades. The reason: a unique "islanding system" pioneered by Tata Power. If the Western Regional Power Grid breaks down, the system is automatically isolated from the rest of the grid, ensuring uninterrupted power to the island city. The Tatas (along with Reliance) supply power to Delhi as well but, in the absence of an "islanding system" and Delhi's higher incidence of power theft, outages remain endemic in the capital.

The key to solving India's power crisis lies in four areas. First, rapidly adding more generating capacity across the country. Two, reducing T&D losses (including theft) from 32% to nearer the 10% global average. Three, reforming the coal-mining sector to ensure steady fuel supply to power plants. Four, refinancing bankrupt state electricity boards who today don't have the funds to even maintain their equipment - a primary cause of unscheduled power outages.

When the prime minister negotiated the Indo-US nuclear deal, he said it was crucial to solving India's power problem. He was being economical with the truth. Nuclear power today accounts for just 3.7% of India's total generating capacity.

Even after all the new nuclear reactors being planned with Russian, French and American collaborations go onstream under the nuclear deal, the contribution of nuclear power to India's total electricity consumption will crawl to 7.5% in 2030. The Indo-US nuclear deal will help India collaterally by giving it an entree into the elite quartet of nuclear non-proliferation bodies - the Nuclear Suppliers Group, the Wassenaar Arrangement, the Missile Technology Control Regime and the Australia Group. But solve India's power crisis it will not. For that we must look elsewhere.

Once the current shortage of coal to fire our thermal-based power plants - which generate 66% of India's total electricity - is mitigated and water reservoirs fill up after the monsoon (hydroelectric power accounts for 21.5% of India's electricity consumption), attention must turn to T&D losses.

If tough audits of power utilities can reduce T&D losses on account of both theft and poorly maintained transmission and distribution equipment from 32% to 25%, nearly 14,000 MW will be saved daily. India's current power shortage of 32,000 MW could thus be nearly halved. In 2012-13, the power ministry has targeted additional generating capacity of 18,000 MW. By 2013-14, India can therefore become a power-surplus country if T&D losses are cut, planned extra capacity installed on time and largely self-inflicted coal fuel shortages alleviated.

In the long term, offshore coal supplies will be a valuable new asset. Indian companies like Adani, GMR, Reliance, GVK and Tata are snapping up coal mines in Australia and Indonesia. India has plenty of domestic coal but not all of it is of high quality so captive coal shipments from foreign coal assets will be a boon.

Power blackouts are only a symptom of a misgoverned nation. Chronic shortages of power that black out "modern" cities like Gurgaon and leave millions without electricity around the country would shame any leadership without the thick skin that India's politicians and bureaucrats have acquired over the years.

Poor governance, corruption and inefficiency create shortages across sectors - from power and water to urban housing and civic infrastructure. The great success stories of the past 20 years have been those where the government has had little role to play - for example, the information technology industry. When a sector has potential - telecom, for ins-tance - corrupt and opaque policymaking have stymied progress.

Living in Lutyens' Delhi and Mumbai's Malabar Hill, their exorbitant rents foregone by taxpayers, politicians and senior bureaucrats do not feel the day-to-day pain of millions of Indians who live in stifling darkness, fight over water every morning and travel like cattle in packed suburban trains. This constitutes the tyranny of the elected. For at least one week every year, it should be mandatory for every MP, MLA, MLC and bureaucrat to live and travel the way the rest of India does. Only then will they experience, first hand, what their misgovernance puts the average Indian through. The culture of privilege that insulates the entitled from 16-hour blackouts must go if India is to provide the most basic of services - 24-hour electricity - to all, not just to those in power.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 Jul 2012 00:49

Aren't the T&D losses less in South and western India?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 12 Jul 2012 02:12

putnanja wrote:Aren't the T&D losses less in South and western India?

Usually over anything over 10-15% TD losses is euphemism for stealing.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 12 Jul 2012 08:04

Yes, TN is at 12% now, down from 18% quite recently. As Virpaksha notes unpaid for power goes into the loss column. But loses in 'other' states are quite high. One extremely large king maker state suffers 40% 'losses'. But the basic point is that there will be no miracles, we need to manage our resources better.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 12 Jul 2012 14:15

The most recent issue of Business Today has an article on how the Tamil Nadu Electricity Board is basically bankrupt. It's not available for free online yet.

Low voltage story ; Mismanagement has pushed the Tamil Nadu Electricity Board to the edge. And recent measures to revive it may fall short.

Things are far from acceptable on the electricity front in Tamil Nadu. Chennai has powercuts every day, both scheduled and unscheduled, with appliance-frying voltage fluctuations at other times. In even second-tier cities like Coimbatore, I hear there are 8 hour powercuts every day.

I sense an unhealthy trend here to consistently paint the South (and to a lesser extent, the West) of India as somehow at a different level than the rest of the country. Paraphrased, this attitude is "oh those Indian problems, they're all due to UP and Bihar and West Bengal -- if South and West India were a different country we'd be rich already." This is emphatically not true -- while there is some difference, it is not as large as people like to pretend.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 12 Jul 2012 21:39

Virupaksha wrote:
putnanja wrote:Aren't the T&D losses less in South and western India?
Usually over anything over 10-15% TD losses is euphemism for stealing.

AT&C losses , as called now a days, cover power supplied but not metered.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 13 Jul 2012 03:17

^^^
Available for full here.

http://www.power-eng.com/news/2012/07/0 ... story.html

Abhijit,

Having traveled through the North in the Chattisgarh/Orissa belt extensively the problems TN faces are simple by contrast. TN is a victim of its own success. The economy demands power and more power plants will cure it. The problem in the North is different. You can travel through 20-30km's of villages without electricity. You see the poles but all the electric lines are stolen. You see the transformer pad but the transformer itself is stolen. You can drive past Raipur in Chattisgarh, the state with more coal than anyone else and you will see entire neighborhoods with no electricity or even street lights. The problem is people can not pay for electricity, period. They can't even afford a Rs 200 per month bill.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 13 Jul 2012 08:48

The list of installed power capacities for various states can be found here. Wikipedia references the same and lists it in order of capacities. One can see that West & South India make it to the top 10 states with installed capacities.

Bihar has just 1923MW which is too less for a state with its population. Even though UP has around 12000MW( 5th highest in India), on a per-capita basis, it is very less compared to states like Maharashtra, Gujarat etc.

One more urgent requirement is to link all regional grids today to effectiviely wheel power from one region to another. Karnataka wants to buy power from other states like Chattisgarh(and is also constructing a pit-head power plant there), but transferring power is the main bottleneck. Soon Gujarat too will become power surplus, but the problem of transmission to other regions remains.

vina · Post by **vina** » 13 Jul 2012 09:11

putnanja wrote:The list of installed power capacities for various states can be found here. Wikipedia references the same and lists it in order of capacities. One can see that North & South India make it to the top 10 states with installed capacities.

Its amazing that WB has roughly just 60% of TN's installed capacity, when it has a much higher population and a big metro like Kolkata! In fact, Rajasthan and WB are about tied in terms of energy capacity installed!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 13 Jul 2012 10:18

Are we sure TN renewable energy a.k.a Wind energy as Solar energy has not taken off installed capacity is 6347 MW, this state really depends on the Wind.

Thats more installed capacity than Harayana?

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 14 Jul 2012 01:46

In MP they are shutting off and removing the transformers if no one in the village has electricity connection. One large road side village (6-8K population) was without electricity for 6 month when i visited India 2 years back. Last month when I was back in India again, the villagers got together and paid for a new transformer and electric company installed overhead wires that are twisted cables. Only people with valid connections are getting electricity and paying their bills for the first time in their life. Can't put a hook on these insulated cables with twisted wire inside carrying both positive and return charge, if you try to cut it'll create a short. They are putting one mini transformer every 5 acres to supply electricity but it is being installed underground. It'll have only enough power to supply 1 or 2 connections, any unauthorized excess use would cause it to trip meaning no more irrigation.

One engineer neighbor told me that his boss (executive engineer" was threatened by district collector to start the electricity connection to an influential village or face jail time for causing law and order problems with potential for violence.

There are ways to control these losses but it'll cost money and take time. MP govt is working towards full 24hrs electricity for all by january 2013. In smaller twon there was only 2 Hrs black out last month.

These reforms and excellent work by chief minister of MP, by empowering and pushing babus into field has yielded 18% growth in agriculture this year. I have never seen farmers this happy before, third term for Sivraj Singh is certain.

Abhijeet · Post by **Abhijeet** » 16 Jul 2012 22:03

Sorry for the late reply, busy with work.

Theo, the article you linked says:

On the generation side, TNEB has added just 333 MW of capacity in the last seven years when demand actually rose by more than ten times that (see Road to Ruin). The last major power project executed in the state is the 630 MW North Chennai Thermal Power Plant back in 1995.

This does not seem like the state is simply a victim of its own success. It's not like they increased capacity at 10% per year, but oops, the state is actually growing at 20%, so they still fell short. That would have been respectable. They simply haven't added more than a token amount of capacity, with no major new project in the last 17 years.

Sure, rural Bihar may be worse, but it's not like the situation in Tamil Nadu (or Maharashtra, for that matter) is in any way acceptable. Indian states are Tweedledum and Tweedledee, infrastructure-wise, at this point. None of them are so far ahead that it makes a significant difference to anyone, other than those who want to make-believe that their home state is so much better than the unwashed others.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 16 Jul 2012 23:15

Yes, I agree that all states do not have enough power. That report is talking about thermal power. TN has added about 7,000 MW of wind which on average provide 2,500 to 3,000 MW of electricity every hour. But the thing to remember is that the power reform act was signed only in 2003. A huge number of private players stepped up. TN had the bad luck to see every single project from that 2003 batch fall through. Still some thing like 3,500 MW of thermal power will come online in the next 18 months. I have inspected several Electric plants and distribution centers in TN. They are world class, yes even compared to Massaland. Every village has electric power and uses it in great quantities. Even a simple hut will have a Sodium vapor lamp hanging from a tree. The facilities in the North I'm familiar with is pretty much non-existant.

The conditions in North and South on the ground are so far apart I don't even know where to begin. I have the misfortune of having the two branches of my home in North & South. So I travel between the two areas every year just about. The situation on the ground in the Chattisgarh/Western MP Orrisa area is far removed from what folks in the South and West have. Folks in Chattisgarh tell me UP & Bihar areas are far far worse. All I'm reporting is the situation on the ground. If you have seen both, it is a true head scratcher to say there is not much difference. I'm traveling to the North again in about 3 months. Katare is saying things have changed in the past year though from my sources things have gotten worse as well. I will find out first hand...

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 17 Jul 2012 22:51

Who will buy 88,000 MW of power?

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 18 Jul 2012 04:43

Hardly any power cuts in MP these days, early next year it'll be power surplus state. Manufacturing and investment in MP is growing faster than national average but power condition is still getting better.

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 18 Jul 2012 05:04

Just returned from a trip to India where I visited UP, MP, UK (Uttarakhand) and Delhi.

Power situation in MP and Delhi is very good. Hardly any cuts.

Power situation in UK is acceptable, although there seemed to be more cuts now then there were a few years ago.
But lots of hydel power projects are coming up in the state and the situation should improve soon.

Power situation in UP is PATHETIC. It never seems to improve but only gets worse each year.
Apart from chronic shortage, the equipment and power infrastructure in the state is in extremely dilapidated and neglected state.
UP politicians have truly gotten away with murder in the last 20-30 years.
People have gotten so used to the situation that they actually feel happy if there's 'only' 6-8 hours of cut a day.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 31 Jul 2012 22:29

Cross post from nukkad.

I hope Gujarat implements a smart grid system and builds a world class electric network. It would be wonderful as such a system would allow more renewable sources to come one line, which will be needed by India soon.

But nothing like that exists right now.

Gujarat performance has improved but it has not broken out of the Indian continuum. Its system is very much identical to all others in India.

For instance T/D losses are 20%. World top performance is 4% with average about 7%. Coal power plants efficiency is only about 28%. World performance is well over 40%. Most of GJ's Gas plants are not CCGT plants that can extract efficiency of 60%+.

Pressure needs to be put on Modi, just like everyone else, to improve their less than stellar performance so far.

A little dated but average state tariffs by state.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 31 Jul 2012 23:42

Don't blame us, Rajasthan overdrew power: UP

http://www.rediff.com/news/report/dont- ... 120731.htm

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 01 Aug 2012 01:40

How does TN and others manage to charge less than Rs 3/unit? Do they subsidize it? I know that TN atleast draws from central power stations like NTPC etc. how can they manage to keep prices so low?

Virupaksha · Post by **Virupaksha** » 01 Aug 2012 01:47

putnanja wrote:How does TN and others manage to charge less than Rs 3/unit? Do they subsidize it? I know that TN atleast draws from central power stations like NTPC etc. how can they manage to keep prices so low?

Dont go by those numbers. They hide as much as they reveal.

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 01 Aug 2012 06:55

Just co-incidence or TOI intentionally published this article when half of country is experiencing blackout

Power grid failure: Amid gloom, Gujarat sets an example

Anyway,

Now, an ultra mega solar power project in Gujarat

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 01 Aug 2012 13:39

^^

Already a power surplus state, Gujarat sold 5,105.43 million units (MUs) to other states last year earning a profit of Rs 1,888.53crore. Last year, the state had sold 5,105 million units to states like Rajasthan, Haryana, Punjab, Delhi and Maharashtra. This was approximately seven per cent of total power produced in the state — 68,710 MUs. According to minister of state for power, Saurabh Patel the government sold power at Rs 8.51 per unit to Rajasthan, at Rs 7.70 per unit to Maharashtra and 9.52 per unit to Delhi. By selling these surplus power, the government was giving Rs 3,000 crore as subsidy to farmers.

Grid failure was not result of scarcity of power as such but unscheduled drawal of power in excess of line capacity and scheduled load dispatched. This results in tripping frequency threshold breach.

The rogue states like UP rajasthan Haryana and Punjab in NR grid dont want to purchase extra power ( they dont have money for costly spot rate power through exchanges) they need but tries to draw from the grid resulting in frequency drop.(since overdrawal is charged at a later date) Islanding provisions are not included in NR so major tripping would plunge the entire grid in Meltdown.

Currently Gujrat is supplying NR Grid power through WR-NR link line.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 01 Aug 2012 14:37

are we sure that there was no service denial attack on the grid?

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 01 Aug 2012 20:30

Lalmohan wrote:are we sure that there was no service denial attack on the grid?

Oh yes, Grid failure is sort of DOS . Request for service beyond grid capacity causes sevrer ( GRID) to trip. UP Haryana etc are deemed hackers here.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 01 Aug 2012 22:17

This is an interesting read from IEEE:

Lack of Rain Leading Cause of Indian Grid Collapse

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Aug 2012 22:32

what is the geothermal status for desh? in maasa, geothermal is now made for individual family homes, at a good cost. such setup should be welcomed and made indigenous so we can utilize max of this energy source.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 01 Aug 2012 22:38

What is 'geothermal'.

Are talking about ground source heat pumps? If so which kind. These are NOT cheap.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Aug 2012 22:54

I know they are not cheap.. but can be looked at farming use. more than the heat pumps but for electricity conversion.

some india-genic innovation needed.

not a good map.. need to dig here

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 01 Aug 2012 23:27

Only ground source heat pumps are available for residential.

India has very little Geothermal as it is very old basement rock type craton. Very cold.

If you are looking for options an adsorption chiller type A/C might be a better bet. It is considerably cheaper and can run on waste heat. In fact the newer models can use 70c hot water. This is can be supplied by a simple solar panel on the roof. In fact the more blazing the sun the more efficiently the A/C. will run. The smaller size units are relatively new however, so YMMV and all that...

For power generation Tc-To/Tc becomes a problem with actual hot fluid Geothermal systems. Most are not worth the effort.