Indian Railways Thread

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 May 2015 06:15

there is no toll to blr airport. there is 120/- toll on the way back.

so any pax going in or out has to pay 120/- from pocket not two ways.... business travellers can get it reimbursed also.

surely you NRI fatcats can spare $2 for the wogs no ?

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 May 2015 06:34

kmkraoind wrote:

This is a short video that tells how Japanese cleans Its Bullet Trains In 7 Minutes. Their discipline, speed, techniques are really amazing. Probably Indian trains take a little bit more time for floor mopping.

There's a very organized culture of food consumption on board these trains. The most commonest meals are ekibens, which are very easy to clean up. Similarly, drinks are in packaged form. In contrast, our meal presentation makes for greater cleaning load. Further, there's a greater emphasis on bringing your own food, something they don't do much in Japan. There's also a pronounced tendency to overpackage there, which just shifts their cleaning and recycling load to behind the scenes. The trains are also extremely smooth and stable; you wouldn't know it's going at 320km/h without the speedometer display, and starts/stops are not jerky. This avoids spills. It's easier to clean trains when they don't need an elaborate vacuum/wipedown per seat for spills and crumbs . Of course, it helps that they are famously disciplined about cleaning up behind them, individually.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 27 May 2015 02:20

Supratik wrote:The govt is going to go bust if it tries to subsidize HSR like with airfares.

I agree, but the govt will be forced to provide some subsidy, as unlike airlines trains are still considered means for aam-janata. Even acquiring land for railways will be difficult, and some promises will be given on connectivity. Also, given the political tool the railways are, nothing prevents a future administration from experimenting with a 'small subsidy' for underprivileged onlee, and once the door is opened, there's no stopping it. The only solutions are to a)grow GDP rapidly and put more money in people's hands before thinking of HSR, and b) take the power to set fares away from the political level.

Supratik wrote:So it is not a big loss if there is no TOT. However, if govt can manage to get Indian pvt industries involved e.g. plants in India that manufacture rolling stock in co-operation with locals, etc that will help "Make in India". You have to leverage the maket and use it to open up manufacturing.

Not necessarily saar. By not using the ToT route and scaling up our own capabilities thereafter, we are losing opportunities to grow our IP and technology. And we have had problems with spares in the past, just like in defence, though it is not at such a high scale. And railways being non-strategic, we are not as hobbled as we are when a MiG-29 is out of spares.

Seeing what happened in the defence area, where our DPSUs were content to produce phoren maal under license, we cannot repeat the same mistakes in other areas. We should get to a point where we have a homegrown ecosystem for railways, with parallel R&D to improve upon it.

In a manner of speaking, we are already making the same mistake by importing railway tech from foreign majors every few decades, abandoning whatever little we built on top it the previous import. It's time we stopped this and invested more in our own R&D and use what comes out of it. And many of what we build are very good: the WAM-4, WAP-4 and the WDM-3D locomotives are well regarded for their ruggedness and reliability, and have very little failure rates.

See how our railway tech has worked so far:

Coaches: Swiss tech for non-telescoping ICF rolling stock in the sixties, now German tech for the lighter and faster LHB rolling stock.
Electric Locos: French (SNCF) and Japanese (Mitsubishi/Hitachi) tech for 25kV/50Hz locos in the fifties and sixties, now Swiss/Swedish (ABB) tech for the next-gen 3 phase electric locos, and more Japanese locos for the DFC between Delhi and Mumbai.
Diesels: Alco/GM EMD in the sixties for the venerable WDM-2 series, GM EMD's high HP diesels in the late nineties (Alco is now defunct).

IOW, we are importing from more or less the same companies over the past 50 years. Why?

Only by growing our own IP and building up our own homegrown tech will help us in the long run, by supplying to IR's enormous demand and also seeking export markets (to grow exports and keep Make in India moving along). I am not talking about the few old MG diesels we refurbished and exported to Tanzania, or the few BG locos to SL/BD, but at a scale of a Hitachi or an ABB. We will not go the Chinese way - by getting some tech under license and then turn around and market it as our own. Our dharmic constraints will not allow for that

, so we have to build on what we have.

And look at the scale of our demand:
Units in service:

Electric locos: 4,823
Diesel locos: 5,633
Passenger coaches: 50,194
EMUs: 9,371
Goods wagons: 2,45,267

Source: IR Annual Statistical Summary, 2013-14

It is downright criminal if we end up importing technology for such a large system, 65+ years post independence. Yet we keep doing the same: the western DFC will again depend on imported locos from Japan (source: Economic Times) because it's funded by the JICA and they need quid-pro-quo.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 27 May 2015 02:27

Theo_Fidel wrote:Arshyam good write up.

Please note East-West corridors are only the first stage of the DFC. There are preliminary notes to extend it to all the major ports, Chennai-Vijaywada-Mangalore and link up the heartland.

Yes, Wiki has listed a bunch, but going by the pace of execution on the eastern and western corridors, I am sceptical of seeing them fructify anytime soon. Maybe when I am retired with grandkids

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dedicated_ ... n_of_India

Heck, the DFCIL website doesn't even mention the other stages of the DFC: http://www.dfccil.gov.in/dfccil_app/home.jsp, so there is no official word on these other arms.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 27 May 2015 02:44

Singha wrote:unpleasant experiences on the rajdhani express
TTE and attendants letting in extra people to make money...old coaches as usual offloaded to the NE side

https://www.facebook.com/prashdelhi/pos ... 9378800200

While it's true that NFR gets step-motherly treatment in allocation, it wasn't the case with the Rajdhani expresses - their coaches were upgraded to the new LHB type around 5 years ago, IIRC. In fact, many other Rajdhanis continued to ply with the old type coaches till much later - the Secunderabad Rajdhani was the last to be upgraded, 2 years ago I think.

Having said that, it is sad to see the Rajdhani going down to such levels. Looks like some newspapers have picked up the issue, hope something is done to fix it.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 27 May 2015 16:44

Arshyam ji,

Have you contacted Shri Suresh Prabhu with your suggestions?
http://www.sureshprabhu.in/index.php?op ... Itemid=310

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 27 May 2015 18:27

@arshyam,

The railway PSUs have been pathetic as far as innovation is concerned for whatever reasons and inspite of some success with locos, etc. You have to just look at the coaches they have done for Kolkata metro. I am talking of getting the private sector getting involved - not PSUs. I don't see any incentive or capacity for PSUs to suddenly start making state-of-the-art railway stuff. In China they can do it coz the management will be send to labor camps if they don't produce what the CPC bosses want.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 27 May 2015 20:25

What is stopping Kolkata metro from sourcing the coaches from the same place as for Chennai and Kochi metro, other than issues of tender and open merit etc. I agree the coaches for Kolkata metro look awful, though they were comfortable for the 80s era expectations...time for an upgrade.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 27 May 2015 21:36

Supratik saar, agreed, private competition would be good for sure. I am only stressing on the IP and know-how being homegrown, not necessarily manufactured only by PSUs.

As for Kolkata metro, it was built before the new upstarts in Delhi and other places came up, so Kolkata had no choice but to go to ICF(?). Now they can diversify, but being a formal zone under IR, I don't know if they can buy from private players like Chennai Metro (Alstom). Whereas the metro systems are separate entities from IR (they come under the Urban Dev ministry) and are not bound by its procurement policies.

But Kolkata could certainly consider sourcing from BEML, since they supply Hyundai-Rotem metro coaches to the Delhi metro. Also, BEML, being a PSU, has been supplying coaches to IR for a long time.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 27 May 2015 21:37

panduranghari wrote:Arshyam ji,

Have you contacted Shri Suresh Prabhu with your suggestions?
http://www.sureshprabhu.in/index.php?op ... Itemid=310

Didn't know he had a website, will give it a shot. Thanks!

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 28 May 2015 18:17

I think the railways probably have the worst engineers and scientists that India produces given the amount of innovation they have done over the last 70 yrs. I am talking about the new Kolkata metro AC rakes not the old ones. These new rakes still have beaten-up bodies like IR rakes, the ACs leaked pretty soon, gates started misbehaving, etc. They were not totally local. I believe the basic structure is from Siemens or someone.Thankfully better sense has prevailed and they are going to introduce modern rakes from one of the global manufacturers. If this is what they produce in the 21st century, I am not hopeful they can absorb HSR technology. I hope the govt introduces the Indian pvt sector into railways in a big way.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 May 2015 06:17

^sometime back bjp said they will not privatize the railways. may be it is the struggle for choice of words, but getting private people on board for services, management, augmented services, technology, contractual works etc.. is mandatory for growth. railway staff can be slim-lined, and/or asked them to do the contractual works under private management.

otherwise, forgeddaboudit~!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 May 2015 06:42

business std = the decline of the rajdhanis continues

A train coach attendant was today arrested here for allegedly molesting a 32-year-old woman passenger on board the premier Rajdhani train.

According to police, the accused has been identified as one Dharmendra.

The woman has alleged that the coach attendant of the Bhubaneswar Rajdhani had tried to touch her inappropriately at night when everyone was sleeping.

The accused was caught by fellow passengers and RPF after the woman raised an alarm. He was later handed over to police, who registered an FIR and placed him under arrest.

The complainant said that the train had reached somewhere in Uttar Pradesh when the alleged incident took place.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 29 May 2015 07:59

Are CCTVs and FIR from train active yet?

Swacch and WiFi will transform the current railway experience.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 29 May 2015 18:53

Today I happened to go to Villuparam Railway station. After a very long time. Change was dramatic from what it was earlier. There was effort to keep it clean. No Foul smells. Machines were being used for floor cleaning. Plastic packets, polythene packets , litters were being picked up from Tracks. The entire outer campus was redone using concrete paving.Presented a neat look. Though greenery was missing.

Tracks had human dropings because Indians use toilets when train is standing at the station. Though did not see anyone water hosing it. Need for new type of train toilets was apparent- Biodigester types with vacuum flushing or pressure flushing.

Change is habit is much needed to reduce the cleaning load. Habit to litter and throw wastes everywhere needs to change.

Train also gave a surprise. Old type coach-ICF. But it was pleasantly clean despite starting from Egmore.

Being a typically day train, non reserved passengers commuting for short distances like Trichy Madurai Dindigul etc were aplenty in AC2 compt. On recommendations of railway staff, I suppose. TTE were seeing tickets on mobile and seeing ID cards. Behaviour was mild and not unpleasant. Some change. One of the Hawker came to us , while on the platform, asking us if we were to board AC2 and told where to stand. Very polite and helpful. After seeing off, I went to say thanks. I had made enquiries from railway staff on the platform and they were from Naarth, few Biharis.. Very polite to us as well as to others in answering queries. Change from earlier experience.Platform had less number of hawkers, only licensed once allowed. Less crowding.

On the whole as I remarked earlier, Change is in the Air. It is being seen on the ground. Takes time to change habit/attitude/behaviour fundamentally. Swaccha Bharat is having its impact in the sense that it is reorienting not only the behaviour but also the expenditures on projects with emphasis on cleanliness and ease of maintaining it. Customers are being given better experience. Staff attitude is also changed to some extent.

One can not expect spic and span /gleaming clean railway stations immediately. It does take time. but things are moving on the ground. Not yet seen Chennai Central and Delhi during these recent months of changes. But sure they would have improved as well.

My faith is reaffirmed that right man is at the helm of affairs.

PS: Delhi Terminal 1D presented a contrast early in the morning and we had crowd experience worst than NDLS. Chennai Airport , the less said the better. So much money down the drain.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 May 2015 19:19

wrt to toilets even the new coaches being built at ICF do not seem to have any model of self contained toilets? still the old hole in the floor?

we really cannot wait for 25 yrs until old rolling stock is all retired to get a 100% toilety fleet even if all new coaches are having sealed toilets....some way has got to found to MLU the toilets, upholstery, and electrical system of the current coaches in parallel.

closure dates have to be set and monitored at PMO level with serious consequences

we must be the ONLY major railway and nation in the world to having hole toilets in all trains..... its a blot of swacch bharat as well to have 10 million being moving around daily crapping all over the place!

if we are to spend $20b lets spend on this rather than HSR and even worse sinooks and apaches.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 May 2015 19:24

also as a Tejas mk1 thing, install a compressed air bottle and sensor such that if anyone craps or pees while wheels are stationary and below a certain speed, without warning the bottle discharges and SPRAYS the yellow matter all over the hapless crapper squatting and balacing over the hole.

its time take tough measures.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 29 May 2015 20:58

chaanakya-ji, thanks for sharing your experience, nice to know things are improving. NaMo's Swachh Bharat has the best chance of success in the railways, since that's run by the centre, and is used by the people in large numbers. Most other initiatives will need to filter through the state govt, corporations, etc. so will take time and may not work. Whereas Railways are a point of direct contact and the maximum impact.

Singha saar, why the toughness toward the hapless passenger? Simple solutions like locking the lavatory doors when speed declines below a certain threshold would do, wouldn't they? Anyway, I think you were speaking in jest, but wanted to clarify since this is the open forum

IR has an MLU equivalent called IOH and POH (intermediate and periodic overhauls). So they will retro-fit the new toilets at that point, if they stick to their plan (http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140722/n ... rains-2022). But the large number of coaches 50K + means it will take time to get them all retro-fitted.

ICF is winding down production of the old type coaches and shifting to the new LHB type. So these new coaches will have the bio-toilets out of the gate. I am not sure what kind of toilets they have been fitting in the past 2-3 years. Observations of new coaches would help, let me check on IRFCA. (Btw, a coach's age is printed on the side of the coach - a 5/6 digit number starting with the year as YY).

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 May 2015 21:25

Singha wrote:we must be the ONLY major railway and nation in the world to having hole toilets in all trains..... its a blot of swacch bharat as well to have 10 million being moving around daily crapping all over the place!

if we are to spend $20b lets spend on this rather than HSR and even worse sinooks and apaches.

I agree, swach bharat should begin with the govt provided services first. It is pointless otherwise to be finger-pointing elsewhere. This will not even require $20b to fix all the toilets on-board long distance trains.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 29 May 2015 22:07

http://www.rediff.com/business/report/m ... 150527.htm

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 29 May 2015 22:36

^^ Great, almost 40% increase in cost already. Time to put it in cold storage and revisit 10 years later.

From the article:

Sources said foreign investors were stressing on buying equipment from manufacturers based in their countries.

“This will limit our choices,” the official pointed out.

As I had said above in my series of posts - investors would not want to transfer tech or make locally. This does not fit into MII, so another reason to drop this for the time being.

Long term, HSR has the most potential in India, given our very large user base. But it must be from our tech and reflecting our costs. Any imported tech is bound to be too expensive.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 May 2015 22:42

^^^ there is always the cheaper Chinese option of course and they have the money too.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 29 May 2015 23:34

More about metro, and an interesting story on conservative Japanese outlook.
She Had to Leave Japan to Find Success as an Engineer

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 30 May 2015 01:27

DFCC to award Rs 26,000 crore worth of contracts in current fiscal

Dedicated Freight Corridor Corporation (DFCC), the Indian Railways’ arm implementing the ambitious freight corridor project, is planning to award contracts worth Rs 26,000 crore in the current financial year (2015-16) in a bid to speed up work and meet the deadline for commissioning the Rs 81,000 crore project.

“In 2015-16 we want to finalise all the contracts as the entire funding for the project has been tied up. Five contracts worth Rs 8,000 crore for the Eastern Dedicated Freight Corridor (EDFC) and nine contracts worth Rs 18,000 crore for the Western Dedicated Freight Corridor (WDFC) are to be awarded this fiscal,” DFCC Managing Director Adesh Sharma told Business Standard.

For the construction of the EDFC, contracts worth Rs 4,000 crore were awarded in 2013 followed by another Rs 5,000 crore contract last year. “The additional five contracts this year would be for signaling and telecommunication, electrification and civil construction. Similarly, for WDFC, in order to meet the deadline we will award the nine contracts for electrification, signaling, track works and civil works,” Sharma said.

For the western arm of the project, DFCC had awarded a Rs 7,000 crore contract for the 650-kilometre Rewari and Palanpur section in August 2013. This was followed by a Rs 4,000 crore contract placed last year for electrification between the Rewari and Vadodara stretch. Sharma said the process of awarding contracts has been in sync with the pace of securing funds from multilateral agencies.

WHAT IS THE FREIGHT CORRIDOR PROJECT?

The Golden Quadrilateral linking Delhi, Mumbai, Chennai and Howrah – and its two diagonals Delhi-Chennai and Mumbai-Howrah – accounts for only 18% of the Indian Railways’ network but carries more than 58% of revenue-earning freight traffic. The existing routes of Howrah-Delhi on the Eastern Corridor and Mumbai-Delhi on the Western corridor are highly saturated creating the need for dedicated routes.

DFCC is currently constructing the 3,350-kilometre long freight corridor project including 1,800 Km as its Eastern arm between Ludhiana and Dankuni in West Bengal. The Eastern DFC comprises three phases -- Ludhiana to Mughalsarai, Mughalsarai to Sonnagar and Sonnagar to Dankuni. The Western DFC will come up between Dadri in Uttar Pradesh to Jawaharlal Nehru Port (JNPT) in Mumbai. The project, when commissioned in 2019, would take up more than 70% of the Indian Railways freight traffic on to its faster, longer and heavier trains.

THE FUNDING PLAN

The Eastern DFC accounts for around 40% of the total project cost. Phase I of the project between Khurja and Mughalsarai is being funded through 66% debt from World Bank and the rest as equity from the rail ministry. The Phase II corridor between Mughalsarai and Sonnagar is being funded entirely through the government equity while the third phase between Sonnagar and Dankuni is to be developed on PPP mode.

The World Bank is providing loan of $2.725 billion for funding the Ludhiana-Khurja-Kanpur-Mughalsarai corridor in three phases. The first phase loan of $975 million was approved for the Khurja-Kanpur section in 2011 followed by another $1.1 billion loan for Kanpur-Mughalsarai section signed in December 2014. Negotiations are currently on for the remaining $650 million funding.

The debt for the Western DFC is sourced from Japan International Cooperation Agency (JICA), the Japanese government’s funding arm. Japan is providing a Special Terms of Economic Partnership (STEP) loan of 677 billion yen extended on soft terms for forty years with a moratorium of 10 years. The first tranche of the loan for 90.2 billion yen for construction between Rewari and Vadodara and additional 266 billion yen for funding Phase II (Vadodara-JNPT) of the Corridor has been signed.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 May 2015 04:01

priority for IR is
- swacch bharat
--- toilets like eram scientific in every coach
--- cleaning staff like the japanese services
--- at least 1 eram-sci-toilet per 50ft on stations
--- better cleaning tools and machines for staffs
- modernize coaches
--- better seats
--- better quality doors and windows that denies
------spitting out
------ open them while running
---- air condition or temperature controls for all coaches
--- solar panels mandatory on top
---- weather shield tiles on top to reduce heat wave
----etc.

-- better time management,
-- doubling of lines, electrifications, etc

all these can be done within budget

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 30 May 2015 12:59

SaiK wrote:priority for IR is
- swacch bharat
--- toilets like eram scientific in every coach
--- cleaning staff like the japanese services
--- at least 1 eram-sci-toilet per 50ft on stations
--- better cleaning tools and machines for staffs
- modernize coaches
--- better seats
--- better quality doors and windows that denies
------spitting out
------ open them while running
---- air condition or temperature controls for all coaches
--- solar panels mandatory on top
---- weather shield tiles on top to reduce heat wave
----etc.

-- better time management,
-- doubling of lines, electrifications, etc

all these can be done within budget

We also need Indian Citizens conscious of the need to keep place tidy, not to have habit of littering anywhere and everywhere except his home, and not to leave the place dirty after use. waste segregation and depositing in separate bins would reduce the cleaning efforts and help better management of waste.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 30 May 2015 20:13

we can train the goda how to drink.. we can pour it inside the mouth.
but the goda must swallow it.

i find even among the few rakshaks, this is a problem. i think this is a problem of the culture, and has nothing to do with education or hygiene. a whip is needed, sadly though. all singapore istyle

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 30 May 2015 22:23

People will do the right thing given awareness and means to follow rules. No need to criminalize the citizenry. Look at how carefully the folks in Chennai now deliver their trash to the daily trash cart. Things have cleaned up quite well. Cops should go after the 5% who willfully break laws rather than the 95% who want to do the right thing but have no awareness of means to do so. There is no point having no littering campaigns if there are no proper trash cans or ease to use them. AFAIK there are no trashcan or proper refuse systems in IR. I once went on 3 day trip through CG without finding a single trash can. Carried my trash with me in plastic bags. Folks gave me strange looks and my relatives made fun of me....

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 31 May 2015 00:02

Second Report in continuation of Villuparam Station.

Passengers reached Trivandram. Had booked retiring rooms in advance. Online, IRCTC. No hassles. Rooms were reportedly clean but described as Sarkari type. But ok for overnight stay.

Trivandram central was clean. Interesting incident was that one person threw empty packet of chips on the platform despite Waste bin available nearby. Next person walking behind him just picks up and puts it in the Bin without saying a word.

Floor mopping was being done regularly and workers were working with machines also like those in Airports. I think they have acquired such machines for most of the stations.

Police presence was reported to be heavy and they were polite answering all queries genially.

All other online booking activities and execution on the ground went hassle free. No complaints. Digital India in the making.

OK I have got this report from the passengers but reliably accurate. Unseen Hand of NaMo working on the ground even in God's own country. Good omen.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 31 May 2015 01:50

chaanakya wrote: Unseen Hand of NaMo working on the ground even in God's own country. Good omen.

This has been clean for long, some more recent upgrades notwithstanding...

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 31 May 2015 04:40

what about peeing on the tracks behavior?

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 31 May 2015 09:07

Look at how carefully the folks in Chennai now deliver their trash to the daily trash cart. Things have cleaned up quite well.

Interesting incident was that one person threw empty packet of chips on the platform despite Waste bin available nearby. Next person walking behind him just picks up and puts it in the Bin without saying a word.

So it is possible in India.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 May 2015 09:16

Data point from cheen HSR.

1100km from Beijing to Nanjing is 4 hrs and costs around 4000 inr one way in 2nd class chair car. Booking Tkts from abroad is not possible directly some local travel agent is to be used and given money and passport details. They will deliver to hotel. but they charge a fat commision on the ticket price nearly 20%.

Wife is again going to dragon kingdom and will tour Beijing this time under advantage of a trade show

the swank HSR stations are reasonably in taxi range if not exactly in cbd. a short taxi ride like 10km.

-----

blr to mumbai is around 1000km and fare if booked in time is less than 4000. a month from now it is costing 3500 on indigo
add in 1000 for taxi to airport and 500 in mumbai. so total 5000.

so I am not sure how even state subsidized HSR in cheen can compete in price with airlines. maybe if they can create 25 rake HSR trains the costs will come down.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 31 May 2015 10:41

Bade wrote:
chaanakya wrote: Unseen Hand of NaMo working on the ground even in God's own country. Good omen.

This has been clean for long, some more recent upgrades notwithstanding...

Since I did not see it earlier( mostly seen airport only) so can't actually compare.Even this report is from first timer to Trivandram. But then Swaccha Bharat would have led to upgrade and make it look better than earlier. I would like to see Chennai Central and NDLS which I can compare. May be detour would make it happen.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 31 May 2015 13:39

Theo_Fidel wrote: I once went on 3 day trip through CG without finding a single trash can. Carried my trash with me in plastic bags. Folks gave me strange looks and my relatives made fun of me....

When I used to commute on suburban local train in Mumbai, men usually threw trash out of the window. Women on the other hand usually stuffed it into their purses to be disposed off later. Another one is gutkha spitting. God know how to stop it.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 31 May 2015 14:50

You can ban gutkha if the govt really wants to. It causes multiple types of cancer.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 31 May 2015 15:01

Pawarful person did ban it in MH when he was diagnosed with Squamous cell carcinoma. The surgeon who operated on him was a teacher when I doing dentistry. He was instrumental in making that happen by trying to make Pawarful person understand this. Alas money talks and pawarful person walks.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 31 May 2015 16:29

chaanakya wrote:Since I did not see it earlier( mostly seen airport only) so can't actually compare.Even this report is from first timer to Trivandram. But then Swaccha Bharat would have led to upgrade and make it look better than earlier. I would like to see Chennai Central and NDLS which I can compare. May be detour would make it happen.

I do not pics to compare over the years, but my immediate family travels by train between TVC and Kochi and have shuttled between Kochi/TCR and Chennai onwards to Howrah very frequently couple of times a year. The reports on TVC has always been excellent. This is not to say that people do not litter the tracks in Gods own country and throw wrappers out of the window or spit out of the windows...just relatively cleaner...and all this has nothing to do with the upper hand of the current central dispensation. Money allotted always helps everywhere. I am sure if kept to higher standards people will follow. I have used Kolkata metro through the 80s and 90s, and it was kept much cleaner than the surface level infra by the commuters. All under secular less <fill in the blanks> regime.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 31 May 2015 16:59

panduranghari wrote:Pawarful person did ban it in MH when he was diagnosed with Squamous cell carcinoma. The surgeon who operated on him was a teacher when I doing dentistry. He was instrumental in making that happen by trying to make Pawarful person understand this. Alas money talks and pawarful person walks.

Slightly off track to the topic. Does gutkha always mean it is somekind of tobacco? I thought it was coarsely ground betel nut, scented but not always laced with tobacco.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 May 2015 18:10

apart from being a mild hallucinogen, betel nut itself is not that great from a health pov.

wiki:
the International Agency for Research on Cancer concluded after reviewing the published medical research that chewing areca nut is carcinogenic to humans.[2][3] Various compounds present in the nut, most importantly arecoline (the primary psychoactive ingredient), contribute to histologic changes in the oral mucosa. As with chewing tobacco, its use is discouraged by preventive efforts.

--
ps. in assam they bury it below the ground until the husk rots and the nut grows softer. man the smell is the worst you can imagine. that smell put me off paan and betel nut permanently even as a toddler.

it however remains a must in hindu religious ceremonies and marriages in combination with paan and 'chuna' (wet white lime)