Indian Railways Thread

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Jul 2014 07:55

NE has close to 50 million souls for sure with assam half of it. the amt will be massive. except for some vegetables, meat, milk and fruits, the NE is not self sufficient in grains, oilseeds, eggs, fish(!) and most manufactured goods like clothing, medicines, plastic goods....

this scenario can only mean Cheen cutting the chicken neck for a extended period with huge force and we taking months from both ends to rejoin together.

parts which have civil unrest and road blocks are the parts with no railways like nagaland and manipur. manipur has sufferred terribly from the nagas blocking supply chain on the road and delhi apathetic to crushing this.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 18 Jul 2014 10:14

Quite surprised at the lack of media attention/appreciation about this particular item. Since fuel has not been mentioned, probably those stocks are already being maintained.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 19 Jul 2014 19:52

From Railway Ministry Facebook Page

New Katra Railway Station Pictures
What a nice, clean station! Airport-style waiting areas!

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 22 Jul 2014 03:15

prahaar, Also look at the PMO requirement along with the G20 trade talks which talk about countries keeping food stockplies for disbursement.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Jul 2014 05:17

are you kidding me? that is not even airport style, but 5 star hotel style.. talking about the aisles and rooms.

i wish chennai airport learns to provide access route for cart pushers traveling from intl terminal to local. pathetic plan, and even the worst brains would think people need clean and clear access.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 25 Jul 2014 15:33

they just messed up irctc.co.in main page even more.

Going to send feedback to PMO to clean that thing up

looking at it, i dont even feel like login in

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Jul 2014 01:29

This is a good first step:
Nine rail corridors to have 160-200 km per hour speed

Railways has identified nine corridors for taking action to raise the speed of passenger trains to 160-200 kmph, the Rajya Sabha was told today.

The routes are Delhi-Agra, Delhi-Chandigarh, Delhi-Kanpur, Nagpur-Bilaspur, Mysore-Bengaluru-Chennai, Mumbai-Goa, Mumbai-Ahmedabad, Chennai-Hyderabad and Nagpur-Secunderabad, Minister of State for Railway Manoj Gupta said in a written reply.

Trial of Shatabdi Express and similar trains up to a maximum speed of 160 kmph between New Delhi-Agra and back was conducted on 3 July this year assessing the fitness of track at a particular speed and was found to be successful at 160 kmph.

He said the trial train took 102 minutes and 105 minutes from New Delhi-Agra Cantt and Agra Cantt-New Delhi respectively.

The rolling stock Linke Hofmann Busch (LHB) coaches and electric loco had already been tested earlier successfully at speed of 180 kmph.

During the trial, all issues related to safety, technical aspects related to rolling stock and with other technical sub-systems like track, bridges, signaling, overhead equipments have been checked and found to be in order.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 26 Jul 2014 10:05

Was the speed achieved on a standard railway section as a result of de congestion or was it due to some other reason. The report is not clear.

If this was accomplished using existing infra, then the fears of HSR costing a bomb may be overstated. If this can be executed consistently, in the identified corridors. Subsequently, scaled up for other sections in the railway.

Imagine that Delhi to Varanasi or Patna can be done in little over 5 / 6 hrs. With 2 stops.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Jul 2014 11:57

The Delhi-Agra/Bhopal section routinely sees 160km/h service by the Shatabdis in various sectors. They just extended the speed to the whole run, with a smaller train of 10 cars. They submitted a proposal to run revenue services at those speeds with such a shorter train, starting later this year.

If you read the history of Chinese HSR, this is exactly what they did. They first spent a decade increasing service speeds of the existing tracks, until those had lines capable of handling 160-200km/h express trains. Then they moved onto dedicated HSR lines and imported train technology.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jul 2014 09:44

I think the route upto howrah from vijayawada is also ripe for high speeds - geologically stable, not too many rivers / marshes and no mountains. it is not electrified I think, but we have appropriate high power diesel locos also now.

vijayawada - vizag is a heavy passenger traffic route, same as vijayawada - chennai and vijaywada - Hyd.

likewise a lot of orissa people work elsewhere in western and northern india reach the state through the Hyd route.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 28 Jul 2014 19:35

Fully back the Railways in this endeavor to get to 160 kmph and eventually 200 kmph one hopes. This is the right way to go. But could they please start implementing a few items that would make things safer/better while at it. While 160 kmph is lower speed for HSR these things need to be done now so it is easier to scale up speeds as one goes on. I’m sure they understand the technical items, tracks, rakes, loco, level crossing, etc but there are a few design items they need to pay attention too as well. Right now they are taking too many short-cuts which has been the bane of Indian existence.

- Re-Think this approach of blasting through station platform side tracks @ 100+ kmph. HSR trains pass through stations through dedicated thru lines preferable right through the center or route the thru tracks to the outer on a straight shot. Right now most stations are bang in the middle between the tracks, meaning it is unsafe for thru trains as they have to go through curves and switches or right past the uncontrolled platforms at unsafe speeds.

- Upgrade the fencing and enforce the no trespassing requirements. The death toll on trespassers is quite fearsome right now.

- Please move to in-cab signaling ASAP. @ 160 kmph you are travelling ~ 50 meters/second. In bad weather or due to terrain often times signals are simply not visible and can be missed at a moment’s inattention. IR has always claimed theft of equipment as a problem for in-cab signaling. See the note above on fencing and trespass.

- And, please move to controlled discharge toilets. At 160 kmph toilet discharge will atomise and spray everywhere. This is horribly unsanitary.

Right now the IR short-cut approach is to blast the horn non-stop. And I mean non-stop. Recently I casually checked the situation when travelling at speed and in a 10 minute period near Chennai the horn was operating for 3 minutes+. Such short-Cuts should not be employed. It is self-defeating (folks start tuning out), creates a bad environment and is not scalable or sustainable. As the trains get faster IR is making the horn louder and louder to reach further and further forward. I believe the horn is now running at an incredible 130 db+, loud as a jet engine. This is not the way to the future.

vic · Post by **vic** » 28 Jul 2014 20:36

ashokk wrote:9-month food stock for N-E trains to wi-fi on all: Railways get 24 PMO ideas

One of the action points is to connect all underdeveloped areas with developed areas. Leveraging the UPA’s flagship MGNREGA, the PMO wants the scheme to be linked with laying of tracks and other works in railways.

Very interesting news if they intend to change the character of MGNREGA.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 30 Jul 2014 02:54

Construction of world's tallest railway bridge begins in Manipur.

Construction of the world's tallest railway bridge from the point of pillar height has begun in Manipur by the Northeast Frontier Railway Construction Organisation.

The proposed bridge near Noney with pillar height up to 141 metres is slated to become the tallest in the world from the point of pillar height surpassing the existing tallest of Mala-Rijeka viaduct on Belgrade-Bar railway line in Europe where the height of pillars is 139 metre, said an N-F Railway spokesman.

The bridge in Manipur is part of the 111 km-long Jiribam-Tupul-Imphal railway line to connect the capital of Manipur with the broad gauge network of the country, the spokesman said.

The alignment of the railway line passes through steep rolling hills of Patkai region, eastern trail of the Himalayas, he said.

While Jiribam, a small town of Manipur near Assam-Manipur border, is situated 37 metres above mean sea level (MSL), Imphal is situated at 780 metres above MSL.

The alignment has to traverse through not only a number of deep gorges but over several rivers flowing at low ground levels necessitating construction of 46 tunnels measuring a total 54.5 km in length and tall bridges to maintain a suitable gradient for efficient operation of railway, he said.

The longest tunnel will be 4.9 km long between Jiribam-Tupul and 10.75 km between Tupul-Imphal section.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 30 Jul 2014 05:23

Singha wrote:I think the route upto howrah from vijayawada is also ripe for high speeds - geologically stable, not too many rivers / marshes and no mountains. it is not electrified I think, but we have appropriate high power diesel locos also now.

Howrah-Chennai was fully electrified in 2005, per wikipedia:
Howrah-Chennai main line

Electrification

Howrah-Chennai Mail was the first train in South Eastern Railway to be hauled by a diesel engine (WDM-1) in 1965.[13]

The Howrah-Chennai route was completely electrified by 2005.[14]
Speed limits

The New Delhi to Chennai Central line (Grand Trunk route), of which the Vijayawada-Chennai section is a part, and Howrah-Nagpur-Mumbai line, of which the Howrah-Kharagpur section is a part, are classified as “Group A” lines which can take speeds up to 160 km/h. The Kharagpur-Vijayawada sector is classified as a Group B line which can take speeds up to 130 km/h.[15]

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 02 Aug 2014 19:39

Recently went from Bangalore to Ernakulam and back via 3AC and 2AC respectively as wanted the brat to have a taste of IR.

Will never make that mistake again.

The lavatories are just impossible. Unless waterless bathrooms like airlines are implemented, no amount of curtain and light fixture improvement are going to cut it.

Also, most of the charge points were just not working, giving apprehension that how the wifi will work even though tickboxes will be marked. Saw a few bugs and cockroaches as well.

And there lies the problem in most of the cases. Things are done just to mark tickboxes. So lot of features gets introduced but the basic cleanliness and hygiene are given a go by. And for gods sake paint the interior stark white like all the airlines interior, gives a much more bright feel. Also having more small lights in various places reducing shadow zone should give better feel than having a few powerful lights and dark shadow under the bunks.

Not sure how the 1st class will be but there is no point to pay airfare while the journey happens at 120kmph.

It will be a rude shock for us upper middle class forumites if the airlines industry tanks as it is already in deathbed.

After this experience in IR, I will happily give voluntary donation to "Save Indigo" movement if there is ever one.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Aug 2014 20:18

You will be surprised that the cheapest thing to implement is the hardest to practice and sustain if it is not inculcated part of culture. Our culture is rude and unhygienic. Sauchalya is not easy to implement with out some Grass's root changes.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 02 Aug 2014 23:14

Indian railways to have bio-toilets in all trains by 2022

Seeking to provide a clean and eco-friendly travel to passengers, railways is planning to eliminate direct discharge type toilets from its entire fleet of passenger coaches and replacing the system with bio-toilets by the end of 2021-22.

Railways is envisaging to eliminate direct discharge toilet system from its entire fleet of passenger coaches by the end of 2012-12, the national transporter has said in a recent report to National Human Rights Commission.

Railways has assured the NHRC that it is making sincere efforts to overcome the problem of falling of human waste from train toilets on rail tracks.

The prevailing open discharge of human waste on tracks is not only corroding the rails, it is becoming a serious environment hazard for the railways.

According to a senior railway ministry official, corrosion costs railways over Rs.350 crore every year.

Continuing its efforts to provide a clean and eco-friendly travel to train passengers, railways has expedited the work of fitting bio-toilets in coaches with over 2,000 of them already installed so far. Railways have about 50,000 coaches.

Railways have installed bio-toilets in 2774 coaches till December 2013. The toilets have been fitted in Sleeper and AC coaches of premier and mail/express trains.

The green toilets not only prevent discharge of excrement on tracks and maintain cleanliness but will also help do away with manual scavenging.

The new-age green toilets have been designed by Railways along with Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) keeping in mind the requirements of Indian trains.

The bio-toilets are fitted underneath the lavatories and the human waste discharged into them is acted upon by a particular kind of bacteria that converts human waste into non-corrosive neutral water.

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 03 Aug 2014 00:00

Saik, actually my observation tells me that the single most important factor to a clean toilet is the need to go waterless or minimum water. It is the "water water everywhere" that causes the typical dirty unhygienic appearance in toilets of sulabh souchalaya genre.

and IR toilets, be in train or station are all in that category.

member_24580 · Post by **member_24580** » 03 Aug 2014 02:25

Picklu saar, why not take pictures and mail them to railway minister or put them on facebook?
Maybe they need to be made aware and issues highlighted in social media, forcing them to get their act together in the process.

Picklu wrote:Saik, actually my observation tells me that the single most important factor to a clean toilet is the need to go waterless or minimum water. It is the "water water everywhere" that causes the typical dirty unhygienic appearance in toilets of sulabh souchalaya genre.

and IR toilets, be in train or station are all in that category.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 03 Aug 2014 03:32

In Delhi Airport there is this silly little curb around the modern toilet stalls to catch water from people washing themselves after. Every stall is filled with a puddle of water that folks are tracking thru.Complete mess of a modern facility.

I do agree India has to find a way to go waterless but every time it is brought up the culture defenders get into a twist and things continue as before.

saip · Post by **saip** » 03 Aug 2014 07:36

Few days back I was at B'lore station. I was waiting for the train doors to open. The train starts from B'lore but they won't open the doors until it is 'cleaned'. Why don't they clean the train when the train pull in? In China on one of the HSR I saw within few minutes of our getting out people were washing the out side of the train and while we were still inside a guy came and started flipping the seats around so that they face the direction of the travel. It is may be because the turnaround for these trains is short. Anyway I need to use the toilet and so walk to the 'Upper Class' waiting room and try to go in the toilet. A guy stops me and demands I pay Rs 2/- and I go what? He says "Sir, now everything is privatized and now you have to pay" I don't have change and he asks 'is it one or two' and I say one and he lets me use it without paying. The toilet is not very clean (water, water every where thing) but usable. When did they put paid toilets inside the 'upper class' waiting rooms? I walk out and see two stray dogs nonchalantly walking on the platform and no one pays attention and then one of the dogs stops 'salutes' a pole and keeps walking. No one seems to be bothered about that. How do you explain stray dogs on railway platforms?

I noticed that in the western type toilets on the train they are placing toilet rolls inside along with usual hand washing thing. In China I noticed that they place these rolls outside the stall as they found people take the rolls away if they put them inside the stalls. In India no one steals them I guess as very few use them and probably think it is unhygienic to do so.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Aug 2014 19:53

there is no comparison between IR and Cheen railway at the current juncture...its kind of pointless even comparing because even most of their HSR stations are greenfield huge affairs on the outskirts built to the stds of international airports, handle only HSRs I think and have a well paid clientale, not the hordes of migrant workers.

that being said, even their normal 'old' stations and 2nd level hsr are much much better than the mess we have currently.

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 03 Aug 2014 21:04

Sewak wrote:Picklu saar, why not take pictures and mail them to railway minister or put them on facebook?
Maybe they need to be made aware and issues highlighted in social media, forcing them to get their act together in the process.
Picklu wrote:Saik, actually my observation tells me that the single most important factor to a clean toilet is the need to go waterless or minimum water. It is the "water water everywhere" that causes the typical dirty unhygienic appearance in toilets of sulabh souchalaya genre.

and IR toilets, be in train or station are all in that category.

After travelling via air for last decade and more, the lavatory was kind of a cultural shock for us. The ladies in the company were more offended no doubt but even all the menfolk promptly turned tail the moment the lavatory door was opened and the "khushbu" hit the nose. You can not take a picture of that and honestly, no one even thought about taking a picture enduring the smell. It was clean by Indian standard, mind you, no visible dirt or any thing though water was everywhere.

Theo_Fidel wrote:I do agree India has to find a way to go waterless but every time it is brought up the culture defenders get into a twist and things continue as before.

Theoji, even I prefer water for ablution, somehow the tissue paper business is just not same in comfort scale. However after spending almost a decade in US and UK, I have always managed with water at least in residence without creating a mess in the toilet. That did not prevent me using tissue paper outside.

So, I do not see why the train and platform urinals and lavatories can not be waterless. They are of temporary use, none is going to stay there. Swalpa adjust madi in the sake of cleanliness??

I am actually quite impressed by the general cleanliness of toilets in BLR airport. Shows that it can be done even with quite a high (though not in the scale of IR) traffic.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Aug 2014 01:45

processes can be modified.. water can be used less for pressured vacuum system like on flights, but when it comes to wiping your crap, paper alone does not mean hygiene.. i stamp with authority to say, all western paper system is full of bugs and dirt, and they crap the worst even leading to hemorrhoids if they would never take bath or use water.

water is essential.. using a combo of water and paper can solve.. initial dry wipes, followed by wet wipes is needed, perhaps followed up with some anti-bacterial isopropyl alcohol wipe on the trains., but for the interim solution, there is no escape from water jet hoses to clean up the mess. hose water flow can be throttled and controlled releasing less water.

it wasn't easy solution for those airline vacuums to be invented... but people do use wet papers to finish eventually. we can reduce water use, but can't avoid using it. after all, without it, there is no planet Earth.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 04 Aug 2014 23:37

A Closer Look at the Chinese High Speed Rail Juggernaut: The Chinese closer to Elon Musk's Hyperloop than the US
http://www.forbes.com/sites/sarwantsing ... us-part-2/
( I think this article belongs here as much we can learn from China's experience)

Chinese factories will produce the rolling stock and the Chinese ministry of railways will use its strong project management capabilities to manage projects. An average kilometer of HSR track in China costs between $4.8 million USD (Jiaoji Line) to $32.7 million USD (Zhengxi Line), which is significantly less than the estimated $380 million USD to $ 625 million USD it will cost for laying down the British HSR2 project.No wonder the British Prime Minister is talking to China in order to bring their technology and investment to fuel UK’s high-speed rail ambitions. Indeed, the world has come full circle – given that the Brits invented railways and exported it worldwide in the 18th century.China also has plans to extend its HSR network to reach Europe as well as to Singapore through Laos, Vietnam and Malaysia. Construction of the Lanzhou–Urumqi High-Speed Railway (length 1,776 kilometers) is expected to reach completion by the end of 2014 and will be instrumental to reach its aspiration to connect to Western Europe. China is also conversing with 17 countries like Vietnam, Thailand, Singapore and Kazakhstan to lay HSR tracks with its own capital for the exchange of natural resources from them. Once implemented, the networks will establish rail’s dominance in the freight modal share between Asia and Europe, as China does not want to move containers by ship in future (and have them accessed by Somalian pirates), rather sending these by rail to Europe, cutting the length of travel from the 35 to 45 days it takes by sea to 15 to 20 days.

The Chinese get that rail, and in particular HSR, is cutting-edge technology, and its vast ecosystem and infrastructure needs provide them with diverse business growth opportunities. Expansion of rail networks involves the stimulus of many different industries. Consumption of steel, copper and cement are key indicators of this industry’s growth. Approximately 10 tonnes of copper are required for every kilometer of dual-track catenary system. Construction of railway infrastructure in China is expected to increase the demand for steel by eight million tonnes every year. Frost & Sullivan rail analysts estimate a total steel requirement of 2.1 million tonnes and an excess of 90,000 tonnes of copper for all the HSR projects under construction around the world. Information technology (IT) is an integral part of the 21st century rail network. It offers services such as condition monitoring, security, surveillance, data handling, ticketing, passenger information systems and much more to the rail environment. Industries that are involved in construction safety (signs, helmets, etc.) are becoming mobilized. Even farmers supplying fabric and raw materials are benefitting. The rail industry is boosting trade in the form of imports of material or technology which bring with it dialogue and social interaction. Track maintenance and project management firms from countries with HSR experience are now bidding for work in other countries. Construction of a rail infrastructure starts a chain reaction that drives demand across the value chains and construction tooling, spare parts and service providers see higher volumes of business. So huge is the opportunity that equipment manufacturers like Caterpillar have been busy making acquisitions. It is believed that rail investments can make a 2 percent to 3 percent contribution to country’s GDP.
Innovation is the creativity that ships. USA not only needs to play catch up with the rest of the world but needs to innovate new technologies and systems for the future; such as Elon Musk’s Hyperloop. Chinese innovation in high speed rail will soon be seen and experienced in nations all over the world. Chinese railways will soon be as big as the combined sizes of rail lines like Deutsche Bahn, DB Schenker, SNCF, Keolis and many others. So, forget the Chinese dragon — watch out for the Chinese high-speed rail juggernaut.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Aug 2014 09:19

Picklu dada, I never use train toilets for anything other than adjusting fluid level of the body. as it is I avoid train journeys, even though I enjoy them otherwise because of just this reason. only when I carry luggage in excess of 25 kg do I use trains, which is rare.
in those cases I switch to a completely liquid diet (juice+buttermilk) so as to avoid using the train toilet at all. longest such journey I have endured is 36 hours.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 05 Aug 2014 21:15

A word of caution. Avoid using western style toilets in public places(in India or elsewhere in the world) to take a dump i.e if you can help it. Western style toilets are simply not meant for public use.

As far as using these toilets in Indian Railways is concerned, I would rather take a stroll in Gaza during Israeli bombardment.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 05 Aug 2014 21:31

Yes I know, but you sit on them, that's the problem

I don't, you can also try, its difficult but its worth

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Aug 2014 09:38

squatting up on the rim of the western style toilet in a jolting train is a difficult skill but many indics have mastered it

saip · Post by **saip** » 06 Aug 2014 09:44

you can always use toilet covers. Or wipe them down with an antiseptic thoroughly before you use them. I read somewhere that some of toilet seats have less bacterial count (may not apply to IR toilets) than some of the office tables!

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 06 Aug 2014 21:23

Rahul M wrote:Picklu dada, I never use train toilets for anything other than adjusting fluid level of the body. as it is I avoid train journeys, even though I enjoy them otherwise because of just this reason. only when I carry luggage in excess of 25 kg do I use trains, which is rare.
in those cases I switch to a completely liquid diet (juice+buttermilk) so as to avoid using the train toilet at all. longest such journey I have endured is 36 hours.

I have so many nostalgic memories of childhood by IR. Just wanted the same to grow inside the brat. After SHQ came back from the lavatory running and exhaling like one of the "damals of dalma pahad" in furious mode, that plan ended right there. I did not dare mention liquid diet

as the ladies in particular are anyway very careful about the water intake to avoid toilets outside home.

The downside is that my plan to revive my past habit of buying bengali books by suitcase load at 20% discount from college street ended right there.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 07 Aug 2014 10:40

Singha wrote:squatting up on the rim of the western style toilet in a jolting train is a difficult skill but many indics have mastered it

I dont squat, I sit but dont touch the rim, thats the difficult part

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Aug 2014 10:45

you must have strong quads and hamstrings brother. good core strength exercise.

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Aug 2014 11:10

I have traveled by trains extensively until my Engg. every year one trip to my village was a norm. So a ~36 hour journey to Delhi via GT/Tn Express/kerala Express was to be followed by a ~10 hr journey to Kotdwar via Mussoorie express and then finally a 5 hour bus journey on a riverbed to my village. I used to hold on to the metal pipe for the tap in trains to avoid a fall while squatting . In those days we used to travel by 2nd class or sleeper class since AC was out of budget so use of western style toilets was a no no for it was always found to be in a royally painted condition.

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Aug 2014 11:22

Imho western style toilets should not be installed on Indian trains simply because at any given moment on any Indian train number of people who know how to use a western toilet is outnumbered by the ones who don't use it on a daily basis. One chap who cannot aim and shoot or has a bad case of loose motions is enough to paint the place beyond use.

Indian toilet is easier to clean and maintain and since it takes some effort to squat it is less likely to be occupied by the folks who take a newspaper/phone to a public toilet and occupy it for long duration just because one can remain seated for long hours.

What they should do is install a faucet which people can use to spray the floor with after one has used the toilet so that everything is flushed away into the hole out on to the tracks .

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 07 Aug 2014 11:45

"damals of dalma pahad"

You've gone up Dalma pahad Picklu Ji?

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 07 Aug 2014 17:34

No, But damals of dalma pahad used to visit neighbourhood every year during school days; left a lasting impression. Us kids would take our trusted cycles and visit the villages to catch a glimpse or few.

http://www.teriuniversity.ac.in/mct/pdf ... CHANDA.pdf

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 07 Aug 2014 21:03

negi wrote: What they should do is install a faucet which people can use to spray the floor with after one has used the toilet so that everything is flushed away into the hole out on to the tracks .

That is there both in 3ac and 2ac. I mentioned that the toilet was clean by Indian standard precisely because there was no dirty solids.

But that unfortunately causes the stagnated dirty water everywhere.

And the smell .....oh the smell .. still gives me nightmare.

muraliravi · Post by **muraliravi** » 07 Aug 2014 22:21

Guys,

Honestly no point comparing ourselves to china. They have 4.5 times our gdp and that is a huge ratio. They can spend like anything. We have put up with all this for a decade or 2 until we hit the 7-8 trillion mark.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 07 Aug 2014 23:00

As far as public sanitation is concerned nothing beats a "western toilet" (we technically invented it). Squatting is technically better for your health but this should be for home use. Toilet seats actually have less bacteria than a keyboard or office table. This will take a lot of education, especially in the rural areas.