Indian Railways Thread

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 02 Jul 2015 07:06

vsunder
I accept your admonishment about my lack of understanding of even undergraduate level physics. My education, such as it is, has been on altogether different lines. That said, I have made an effort to follow what is being posted on this thread and others as well, with a view to inform myself. I may have failed by your yardstick but it is not for want of effort. My post on regenerative braking system was prompted by an earlier post on Chennai metro and the policy of operating the trains well below its rated speed. There was a Hindu news report on how Chennai Metro coaches are equipped to recover 30-35% of the energy lost in braking. See link below.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/che ... epage=true
The other related question was even if energy is wasted (deceleration from higher speeds) isn't it economically viable to run trains at higher speeds if it results in faster turnarounds of trains and therefore higher traffic receipt, a relevant factor considering that these very capital intensive projects.
May be you were offended by the first sentence in my post which began, 'My questions remain unanswered'. That was intended in the spirit of a genuine quest for knowledge from people who are better informed. Not to convey an air cockiness.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 02 Jul 2015 21:35

arshyam wrote:But IR has been known to upgrade locos mid-way, in one of their POHs (periodic overhauls). Think of it as the MLU we know of in BRF. They will most likely upgrade the locos that have the most life left into pure AC and get rid of the DC equipment that's now occupying space uselessly.

Suraj wrote:The WCAMs were more efficient in AC mode than DC mode. Some of them no longer even have DC equipment, since it has been removed and replaced with ballast, from what I read. They should in called WCAMinos (WCAM in name only). They sure do have a presence about them though - as nice looking as the WAP-4s, and my favorite looking IR locos behind the WAP5/WAP7s.

So I came across an official confirmation of what we had discussed here (thanks to IRFCA):

Elect. Loco Workshop Bhusawal

ELW Bhusawal is the only workshop where POH of 3Ø locomotive is being done. ELW-BSL is an ISO 9001:2008 certified workshop and ELW BSL had POHed 140 locos in the year 2006-07, and at present target for 87 nos of POH locos, 36 nos of POH+Recabling and 5 nos of conversion from AC-DC to AC locomotive for the year 2015-16.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 03 Jul 2015 01:35

An update on the Mangalore underbridge, now it has become a swimming pool as expected after the monsoons.

http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_dis ... _id=332210

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 03 Jul 2015 06:32

In circa 1999, the entire movement of train traffic in Chennai division towards Jolarpet could be accessed via a link on the homepage of Southern Railway. Basically the RRI display of Chennai division
between MAS-JTJ. It was amazing. Then the link vanished. The RRI at Itarsi that burnt down was commissioned in 1981 and was due to be refurbished in 1998 but never was. Smoke alarms were to be installed but never were. But it is possible that the railways may have lucked out. I take what I said back, there is a chance things can be brought under control in a month. The reason is that a new RRI at Itarsi is being built and it is 95% complete. 30 turnouts have to be connected and then the sytem has to be tested. So perhaps there is a chance things can be brought back to normal in 2 months. Take a look at this picture, this cannot be built in a few days. Maybe someone has more current info:

http://www.hindustantimes.com/bhopal/it ... 63453.aspx

But the attitude displayed in the article by the Divisional Railway Manager(DRM) is a little nonchalant and cavalier. Here is a video of another very busy RRI, the one at Nimpura, which is as some of you know, the massive marshalling yard for Kharagpur(KGP)Jn. The conversation is taking place in Bengali which is at the level that I can understand, but the comments written in are self-explanatory:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5tNagB6XhQ

It seems the RRI displays only the through yard at Nimpura, the yard is much more massive than the display seen or at least what I remember of it as a student there in 1970's.

Excellent videos in Hindi explaining PI(Point interlocking) and RRI( Route Relay interlocking) for large yards like Itarsi ( you may want to watch these two videos first before viewing the Nimpura video)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rjaHhdtUuGs

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oeAac0ZOfA4

This is 35 year old equipment at a major junction in India that burned down. And people want to increase speeds, this that and the other.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 03 Jul 2015 15:07

vsunder wrote:An update on the Mangalore underbridge, now it has become a swimming pool as expected after the monsoons.

http://www.daijiworld.com/news/news_dis ... _id=332210

Saw this news report in Business Line. According to this the ball is now in municipal corporation court.
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/tod ... 303312.ece

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 03 Jul 2015 17:45

In the videos I have linked on RRI, what you see are servomotors operating points and a feedback control system that sends a message back to the controller that the point/turnout is closed or stuck or whatever. Replace the RRI cabin with a cockpit, replace the turnout by a control surface, that is elevators, flaps and ailerons and what you have is Fly by Wire (FBW) that is the stuff they discuss in the LCA forum. The basic system and mathematics is the same. Only the issues are miniaturization in one, that is LCA. It is the ability to see the common features in many seemingly different systems and apply methods and tools either theoretical or at the manufacturing level acroos fields or systems that makes for progress. Shorn of the acronyms, big words etc, stripping something down to the essentials and the commonality is striking.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Jul 2015 06:30

it has to butt-brains that would build under-passes without proper drainage system.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 05 Jul 2015 06:32

Kashmir rail link project to be completed by 2020: Official

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 05 Jul 2015 08:13

SaiK wrote:it has to butt-brains that would build under-passes without proper drainage system.

The under passes (or subways, as they call it) on the Chennai Beach-Tambaram Railway line are all built without any drainage system. The traffic comes to a halt once the water is two feet deep and more. After the rain stops a diesel engine pumpset is brought from somewhere and the water is pumped out to flow by the railway line and traffic resumes. The logic is why do you need to go out when it rains? Sit at home and eat pakodas! I recall the time when there was a cyclone in Madras. I was driving a scooter and needed to get to the other side of the railway line at the Loyola college subway in Numgambakkam. Stranded on this for the whole night.

chandrasekaran · Post by **chandrasekaran** » 05 Jul 2015 11:12

nandakumar wrote:
SaiK wrote:it has to butt-brains that would build under-passes without proper drainage system.
I recall the time when there was a cyclone in Madras. I was driving a scooter and needed to get to the other side of the railway line at the Loyola college subway in Numgambakkam. Stranded on this for the whole night.

And I thought it was one of the few or the only one that didn't collect water. Kids at the Pazhavanthangal subway used to dive jump from the tracks and have a nice swim

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 07 Jul 2015 19:56

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dOYhy6e1MK4

The Samjhauta Express BBC Documentary 2015...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Jul 2015 20:06

so how are underpasses supposed to not have rainwater at the bottom? gravity would indicate it all flows down

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 07 Jul 2015 20:40

There is always a drainage system. In this case in Mangalore a proper survey was not carried out, as far I can see the entire thing was eyeballed into place!! and shoddy construction ensures the bottom of the underpass is now below the connected drainage canal when it rains and water rises. We had a long discussion on this in the previous page. This sort of stuff happens constantly and costs the nation heavily in terms of lost productivity. Just think, every time it rains now the municipality will have to close the road and pump out the water, if they can. Remember there is more coming in all the time. So if they do this once a week during monsoons and it costs Rs 50,000 in pumping, labor, lost time from road closed, etc. It will cost the nation 50,000x20weeks rain = 10 lakhs every year. This is what poor design and failure to execute costs the nation. This sort of unprofessional work keeps us poor….

The Nungambakkam railway underpass floods due to the immense slums in the Choolai Village area that drop trash into the drainage grates. It has been a lot better recently after they removed all the khudisai’s around Loyola College.

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 07 Jul 2015 20:56

Looks like IR is going for solar big time.Noticed lots of solar panels on railway land and even atop small stations on Delhi-Agra line.This is mostly a 5 tracks line now.Also bharat forge factory near Faridabad have something interesting lying covered near the railway line.

Pranay · Post by **Pranay** » 07 Jul 2015 22:33

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCh-hSOk7S8

India's Frontier Railways Full Episodes BBC Documentary 2015

Uttam · Post by **Uttam** » 07 Jul 2015 23:26

vipins wrote:Looks like IR is going for solar big time.Noticed lots of solar panels on railway land and even atop small stations on Delhi-Agra line.This is mostly a 5 tracks line now.Also bharat forge factory near Faridabad have something interesting lying covered near the railway line.

I took a chopper ride to Vaishno Devi and saw the same on top of the entire roof over Katra railway station. A very pleasant sight.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 08 Jul 2015 07:17

Pranay wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CCh-hSOk7S8

India's Frontier Railways Full Episodes BBC Documentary 2015

@7:10... what kind of security check is that now????!?!?!?

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 08 Jul 2015 22:00

Police is checking the passport and Visa.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 09 Jul 2015 21:47

Two videos that reveal a lot. It is a trip on the Karnataka Express, NDLS to SBC( New Delhi----> Bangalore) uploaded May 2015.

In Part 1.
(a) The Third line Bina to Bhopal ( 138 km) seems to have been completed from Vidisha to Bhopal(49 km). It is clearly seen from Sanchi to Bhopal. This will go some way to alleviate track congestion on this extremely busy Class A route carrying Chennai-Delhi and Mumbai-Delhi (via Central Railway) traffic. Double line which is a Class A line is too congested. There are no major rivers here between Bina and Bhopal, only major river is the Betwa river, between Jhansi and Bina, Matatila dam so outside the Bina-Bhopal section. There is one more point that the line cuts the Betwa, just after Vidisha towards Bhopal, and the video does show the new bridge for the third line is complete. Here the Betwa is not that wide and closer to it's source. Then the Narmada river after Bhopal near Hoshangabad. Tripling of Bhopal-Itarsi was surveyed already in 2006 and is the need of the hour. The installed third line seems not to be electrified. Maybe the line has to settle, CRS inspection and then electrification begins. There have been delays and blocks on the trunk route to install webbed switches and carry out interlocking work. Bhopal Shatabdi has been held up for an hour and even two hours and trains cancelled to allow signalling work on the third line and integrating it with the system. This was taking place in Feb. 2015 between Vidisha and Bhopal. So a good sign that lines are getting de-congested. Also Suresh Prabhu announced a third line in the budget from Wardha to Balharshah and so another good initiative that should have been done 10 years ago instead of new trains.

Part 2
(b) Manmad-Kopergaon( Shirdi)-Ahmednagar-Daund is single line still but electrification is complete in the video. Except probably not switched on, Karnataka Express is still hauled by Maula Ali twin ALCO's on this route and all trains it meets have Diesel traction. Again you can see in the video the single line is congested, so many stoppages on a busy North-South route. I had said earlier this is a prime line for doubling. Maula Ali twins can barely cope with the gradients, lots of notching up and chugging and characteristic WDM sounds, good video but shows IR problems, speeds cannot be high on this busy section for a multiple of reasons, the poor twins seems barely able to pull the train at some reasonable speed.

(c) Gooty-Bangalore also is electrified, but still not switched on it seems. Here the line is single and needs to be decongested. Work will start from Oct 2015 to double it, but no material is seen in the video dumped along the sides of the track, like equipment, mud etc. preparatory to doubling work. Reason given for not switching the current is that Andhra Pradesh Electric board has failed to connect two substations eventhough money has been deposited by IR and also one HT wire has to be shifted by Andhra Pradesh, so there is a problem for a 1 km section. Money has been deposited but no work done for 1 year. I am not sure why the State Electricity boards don't do a good job esp. if the money has been given.

(d) Lastly in Part 2 within 2 mins of the video pulling out of Manmad, enjoy the Manmad-Ankai run towards Kopergaon/Shirdi full of buttes and mesas, it is Monument valley. There is also a ruined fort on top of the Ankai mesa and also Buddhist caves which some of you may want to hike upto. Ritadhishankar is the best videographer for IR and he has a huge section on IR on youtube. He is the best!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t9x3K3oyPsY

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h_ZfzpSOwho

It also seems that Bhopal-Itarsi tripling has also taken off. Here is a company that claims it will build the bridge across the Narmada at Hoshangabad which is the biggest step in this tripling project. See the first item on the list. Tripling all the way till Chennai and Mumbai is the first step.

http://www.rahee.com/project_listing.ph ... 1&catid=91

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 09 Jul 2015 22:50

vipins wrote:Looks like IR is going for solar big time.Noticed lots of solar panels on railway land and even atop small stations on Delhi-Agra line.This is mostly a 5 tracks line now.Also bharat forge factory near Faridabad have something interesting lying covered near the railway line.

I doubt what you are saying here that Delhi-Agra has a 5th line, proof? I know that there was a tender out for 5th line from New Delhi station to Tilak Bridge ( 3.6 km) where the Supreme court of India is. The tender also mentions a 6th line. What do you mean 5th line, please clarify it with a video proof if you can. I even doubt there is a 4th line between Delhi and Agra, leave alone 5th and 6th. Typically 4th line will exist if there is EMU activity, like around Mumbai to Ambernath or Mumbai to Kasara, or Chennai-Tiruvarur, and 4th line to be perhaps extended to Arrakonam (AJJ=Arakkonam Joint Junction) under construction?? . Here one should have third line to Jolarpet. It is a congested section.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 09 Jul 2015 23:47

vsunder wrote: Part 2
(b) Manmad-Kopergaon( Shirdi)-Ahmednagar-Daund is single line still but electrification is complete in the video. Except probably not switched on, Karnataka Express is still hauled by Maula Ali twin ALCO's on this route and all trains it meets have Diesel traction. Again you can see in the video the single line is congested, so many stoppages on a busy North-South route. I had said earlier this is a prime line for doubling. Maula Ali twins can barely cope with the gradients, lots of notching up and chugging and characteristic WDM sounds, good video but shows IR problems, speeds cannot be high on this busy section for a multiple of reasons, the poor twins seems barely able to pull the train at some reasonable speed.

Karnataka will stay with the Maula Ali twins for the foreseeable future. They will get electrics only when the entire route from Bangalore - Manmad is electrified. At best, we *might* see them changing from D to E at Daund, but even that's a stretch. AFAIK, Daund does not have maintenance facilities for locos, called trip sheds in IR parlance, which allow locos to be quickly inspected, refueled (if D), and assigned to other trains. It only handles loco reversals for northbound trains from Pune via Manmad. The latter, which is on the Mumbai - Nasik - Itarsi mainline, already has this infra, hence it's the current changeover point. Once the entire Mumbai-Chennai line via Pune and Daund is electrified, a trip shed at Daund will not be needed as all trains will just pass through. That point is a few years away, tops. So I don't think IR will invest in a new diesel trip shed at Daund.

The other option is to use electrics on the Bangalore - Guntakal stretch and diesel up to Manmad, and again switch over to electric. This will not be done as, cumulatively these 3 loco changes each will add 15 mins time (total 45 mins wasted) for a tightly scheduled and important train, as opposed to the current single changeover at Manmad costing 15 min. Another reason the KK will stay with its current link.

Lastly, Maula Ali will vociferously oppose any loco changes in the immediate future

. You most likely know that the KK express used to get diesel twins from Itarsi (ET) for ages, and that happened to be the changeover point. The diesel lobby was strong enough at ET that they successfully retained the KK link, even though it meant running the train as diesel-under-wires for almost 500km till Manmad and then all the way to Bangalore. Finally some sense prevailed, and trip shed facilities at Manmad were built to move the changeover point to Manmad. It also helped that the Manmad-Aurangabad-Latur-Secunderabad line was converted into BG, so trains on that line also needed diesel locos. So trip shed facilities were built at Manmad. After that, it was only a matter of time for ET to lose its prestigious KK link - and it was handed over to the Maula Ali shed, which anyway served the Sec'bad-Manmad Ajanta express with twin diesels, so the loco rotation was established. Currently, the loco usage pattern is Sec'bad-Manmad on Ajanta exp., and then Manmad-Bangalore hauling the KK, returning with the KK to Manmad and thence with Ajanta back to base in Maula Ali.

vsunder wrote:Maula Ali twins can barely cope with the gradients, lots of notching up and chugging and characteristic WDM sounds, good video but shows IR problems, speeds cannot be high on this busy section for a multiple of reasons, the poor twins seems barely able to pull the train at some reasonable speed.

Actually, the Maula Ali twins are the best bet to deal with these gradients. Each Alco in the set can realize 3100HP, combined to be 6200HP. This is only slightly less than the WAP-7's 6300HP, and much higher than the WAP-5's (5000HP) and the venerable WAP-4 (5300HP). Point is, electrics will not make much difference in the struggle up these gradients, unless they are twinned, but we don't see many of them used on passenger trains. SWR experimented with using a single WDP-4 on the KK, hoping that the raw muscle from massa will do better, but given the lower tractive effort of the WDP-4's, they reverted to the MLY twins in double quick time (the Alcos are also from massa, but they have been made so desi that they are fully certified SDRE onlee

).

On second thought, the best solution to these struggles is to deploy a single WAG-7 goods loco

till Manmad - even though the top speed is only 100kmph it won't make much difference as these tracks aren't high speed due to the terrain, but the WAG-7's enormous tractive effort will definitely help deal with the terrain easily. Pickups will be much faster and may actually improve the overall time taken.

vsunder wrote:I doubt what you are saying here that Delhi-Agra has a 5th line, proof? I know that there was a tender out for 5th line from New Delhi station to Tilak Bridge ( 3.6 km) where the Supreme court of India is. The tender also mentions a 6th line. What do you mean 5th line, please clarify it with a video proof if you can. I even doubt there is a 4th line between Delhi and Agra, leave alone 5th and 6th.

Delhi-Ballabgarh is 4 tracks, and beyond is 3 up to Mathura. That's it. There are plans for quad track up to Agra, but I don't know what status it's in. I haven't heard of 6 tracks anywhere, most likely vipins-ji saw a yard with long loop lines - there are many near Tughlakabad on the outskirts of Delhi.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 10 Jul 2015 00:07

arshyam wrote:
The other option is to use electrics on the Bangalore - Guntakal stretch and diesel up to Manmad, and again switch over to electric. This will not be done as, cumulatively these 3 loco changes each will add 15 mins time (total 45 mins wasted) for a tightly scheduled and important train, as opposed to the current single changeover at Manmad costing 15 min. Another reason the KK will stay with its current link.

Lastly, Maula Ali will vociferously oppose any loco changes in the immediate future . You most likely know that the KK express used to get diesel twins from Itarsi (ET) for ages, and that happened to be the changeover point. The diesel lobby was strong enough at ET that they successfully retained the KK link, even though it meant running the train as diesel-under-wires for almost 500km till Manmad and then all the way to Bangalore. Finally some sense prevailed, and trip shed facilities at Manmad were built to move the changeover point to Manmad. It also helped that the Manmad-Aurangabad-Latur-Secunderabad line was converted into BG, so trains on that line also needed diesel locos. So trip shed facilities were built at Manmad. After that, it was only a matter of time for ET to lose its prestigious KK link - and it was handed over to the Maula Ali shed, which anyway served the Sec'bad-Manmad Ajanta express with twin diesels, so the loco rotation was established. Currently, the loco usage pattern is Sec'bad-Manmad on Ajanta exp., and then Manmad-Bangalore hauling the KK, returning with the KK to Manmad and thence with Ajanta back to base in Maula Ali.

Thanks for various insights. You can see in the video the Moula Ali twins bringing in the Ajanta Express. So with route congestion if the Ajanta Express is late so will the KK express towards Bangalore. Yes, there are old videos of Itarsi twins hauling KK through the Makali ghat. I suppose Ballabgarh is the limit of EMU operations in the Delhi area, I thought it was Palwal and so I expected 4 lines till Palwal. I think Budni-Itarsi already is beyond a preliminary stage of tripling, but it is a guess.

Ahmednagar is a major center for the Armoured Corps. Daund-Manmad should be double lined and lines laid to transport the Arjun over those gradients.

And now for the very bad news: Mumbai- Chennai is not going to be double lined anytime soon. Solapur-Kalburagi(Gulbarga) which was to have been doubled in 3 years has encountered a hitch. The companies or company doing the work failed to do anything for 3 years and just barely did 10% of the work. The tender has been cancelled in June. This is the story of so many projects in India of fundamental importance. So all the timelines above will have to wait another 3 years. This also impacts Bangalore-Mumbai and Bangalore-Delhi. Hopefully Mohol-Bhigwan can be completed( that is doubled) and electrified.
So at the moment Hyderabad-Mumbai, Bangalore-Mumbai, Chennai-Mumbai have single lined pieces and so also Bangalore-Delhi via Gooty has single line pieces. In fact Pune-Hyderabad Shatabdi which runs on this route is thus running on a piece that is single lined.

http://indiarailinfo.com/blog/post/1512874

Why does not RVNL( Rail Vikas Nigam Ltd.) monitor important projects like this?
Important for people asking for HSR to chew the cud on this one. IR is broken and Prabhu needs a lot of help.

By the way any idea of those twin back to back derailments at Basin Bridge Jn. ?

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 10 Jul 2015 19:03

The comment I made about 5th line and 6th line from New Delhi station to Tilak Bridge is because RVNL displays this as work in progress on their home page:

http://www.rvnl.org/project/project_desc.php?id=5

This is a 2.65 km line possibly to decongest New Delhi station.

There is a proposal to decongest CSTM, Mumbai. This will involve 5th and 6th lines from Kurla to CSTM. Parel will be developed as a suburban terminus with nice looking structures. Project kicked off in Oct 2014 with a tender for a RRI cabin at Parel. But then with all the hoopla it crashed again. One of those things where Guvrmand officials need to keep their effing mouth zipped. Guess what, they had not thought of land acquisition in the heart of Mumbai, between Byculla and CSTM. So come Jan 2015 the house of cards crumbled. Note RVNL is not displaying this project as even in the planning stage, that is a category( they call it under development stage) but maybe RVNL is not involved, who knows what crap goes on. Lokmanya Tilak terminus(LTT) Kurla is an effort to decongest CSTM and Prabhu is on record that he wants to decongest many busy stations, 19 if I remember correctly. Delhi has quite a few, Vivek Vihar, Hazrat Nizamuddin etc from very old times. Also Diva-Kalyan(11 km) is stated by RVNL as a completed project of 5th and 6th lines. This should help the local suburban system in Mumbai.

http://www.rvnl.org/project/project_desc.php?id=2

Here are the links for the terminus at Parel:

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-p ... in-2028246

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-p ... am-2054304

http://www.dnaindia.com/mumbai/report-p ... on-2079477

Lot of could, should and unnamed officials etc etc. Usual crap of big mouths.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 10 Jul 2015 19:43

vsunder wrote:The comment I made about 5th line and 6th line from New Delhi station to Tilak Bridge is because RVNL displays this as work in progress on their home page:

http://www.rvnl.org/project/project_desc.php?id=5

This is a 3.6 km line possibly to decongest New Delhi station.

Yes, as far as I can tell, this was to ensure the Howrah bound trains have their own set of tracks right from NDLS. Currently, the 4 lines are shared by southbound, westbound and eastbound trains till the eastbound tracks take off before Nizamuddin, and of course cause severe congestion near Tilak Bridge. I remember TN, and AP regularly waiting at this station or Shivaji bridge for platform clearance, leading to a delayed arrival at New Delhi, despite on time arrival at Nizamuddin. In the long run, there will be 6 tracks from New Delhi, 2 taking off to Howrah before NZM, 4 continuing up to Mathura and splitting into 2, each towards Chennai and Mumbai. Question is, will that be sufficient by the time these projects are completed? I think not.

vsunder wrote:Lokmanya Tilak terminus(LTT) Kurla is an effort to decongest CSTM and Prabhu is on record that he wants to decongest many busy stations, 19 if I remember correctly. Delhi has quite a few, Vivek Vihar, Hazrat Nizamuddin etc from very old times. Also Diva-Kalyan(15 km) is stated by RVNL as a completed project of 5th and 6th lines. This should help the local suburban system in Mumbai.
<snip>
Lot of could, should and unnamed officials etc etc. Usual crap of big mouths.

Add MAS-Basin Bridge 5/6th line as well - the work is going on somewhat briskly these days.

‘Fast Tracks’ Getting Ready at Basin Bridge - New Indian Express

Personally, if Mr. Prabhu stays on as Rail min for the full term, IR will have recovered a lot of lost ground - his emphasis on more lines, decongestion, infra investments etc. are exactly what IR needs, not more trains. So far, I have seen him walking his talk - speaking for the Chennai area, his budget allocated funds to the following: Korukkupet-Ennore 3/4th lines, Tiruvallur-AJJ 4th line, Tambaram-Chengalpet 3rd line (by converting the old MG track), Chenglpet-Villupuram doubling, BBQ-MAS 5/6th lines, and new platforms at Beach and upgrading Tambaram to a terminal. Some allocation done to a new line between Ennore and Puttur, which is on the Arakkonam-Renigunta section on the Mumbai mainline. This will presumably connect to the new ports at Ennore and Kattupalli directly, avoiding the super-staturated Arakkonam-Chennai section.

Btw, this is the link to the 'pink book' of the Railway budget - it details the final allocations to each project, in this case in SR, and has the above projects. Full of interesting details. Presumably, other zones should have similar summaries at the parent site: http://www.indianrailways.gov.in/railwa ... _10-11.jsp

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 10 Jul 2015 21:42

I forgot to mention another point about the videos I posted. In Part 1 between 15:35 to 15:43 one can see back to back, two trains hauled by WCAM( AC-DC dual) electrics before and at Khandwa. They are far from their home at Kalyan and on their way to Itarsi so another railway zone other than their home zone of CR. So WCAM do get to wander far from home, maybe even to Delhi. Totally agree, building infra, decongesting and augmenting line capacity is the need of the hour. Prabhu should hold steady against all sorts of interests even in his own party who are pushing him.

To me it is also an astonishing fact that in the second decade of the 21st century, diesel locos in India do not have any proper fuel injection system. This is on record, there is an interview of GM S.K. Sood of Central Railway within the last year maybe in Hindu Business online. He states, if I recall that the ALCO locos are most efficient at Notch 8. OK that is expected. But at lower notches they are less efficient, oh yeah nice black smoke of raw diesel to make good videos when starting at lower notches and burning holes in the national exchequer. Belatedly at least CR has decided to install or retrofit proper diesel injection systems CRDI( Common Rail Direct Injection system, like cars) at 50 lakhs a loco into about 50 ALCO locos with Central Railway. I may have forgotten but he has stated in that interview that CR has a fleet of 200 diesel locos, mostly all are ALCOs I think, the EMD's went to SWR and the Northeast as a sop since SWR has no electrics at all.

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 11 Jul 2015 05:27

Personal travel report:

Recently traveled to and fro on the Ahmedabad Swarn Jyanti Rajdhani. Was happy to see that IR had offloaded services within our coach to a private vendor. This included cleaning and catering services. Bathrooms, corridors and cabins were regularly cleaned and toilet supplies refilled. You could request the toilet to be cleaned before using it. Cabin floor was cleaned immediately after dinner.
Dinner was served on collapsible mini-tables. Utensils/cutlery was bone-china and stainless steel. Dinner was a 3 course affair - 4 choices of vegetarian soups (my hot and sour was quite delicious, and served piping hot), choice of indian or continental main course and then 2 choices of ice-cream. Servers kept asking us if we wanted more or anything else. Even my ABCD kids were impressed!
The bedding provided was neat and clean, ironed and largely spot-free.
Railway stations seemed cleaner, though tracks and surrounding areas were still littered with trash.
Train started and reached on time both times.
Overall, a pleasant experience and things seem to be moving on the right track.
Only disappointment was that our cabin in the LHB coach didn't have controls to reduce/increase AC airflow, which the older coaches have. Also, there was a certain drabness or industrialism about the cabin - too much dull gray steel, and somewhat grimy at that.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 12 Jul 2015 08:20

There were a series of posts on regenerative braking above. As I explained earlier, electricity is generated via Lenz's law. Very often when the loco has no device to feed the electricity generated while braking back into the system, the electricity is fed through a bank of resistors that are roof mounted( there is the heat shield!!). Heat is created in the resistors and since the resistors are roof mounted there is cooling. You can in principle use it to boil yourself a cuppa of tea for the loco pilot. Regenerative systems as I have explained are more involved, phase matching and frequency matching has to be done, otherwise the system will trip or you will damage your loco. Well here is a picture of the resistors on the roof of an electric loco at Kalyan electric loco shed( Central Railway, suburb of Mumbai and a very large diesel and electric loco shed that used to handle DC electrics too). It is a wasteful system to simply "burn" of the excess electricity as heat sending it through a resistance but if you do not have a method of ploughing energy back into the system what do you do? It's the analog of flaring gas at refineries. and not using the heat unless there is a co-generating plant.

http://www.trainweb.org/railworld/Kalyan/Small/DBR2.jpg

The standard electric workhorse of IR WAP-4 is fitted for the most part with rheostat devices on the roof as pictured above. They seem to be supplied to IR by Daulat Ram engineering:

http://www.daulatram.com/dy4.htm

The newest toy in the IR stable WAG-9 does have regenerative braking and 6350hp of tractive power. You can see a lone WAG-9 lurking way in the distance at Guntakal in part 2 of the video. It is also seen in another video I posted aeons ago on the double decker from MAS to SBC, it is seen biding it's time at Jolarpet outer.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 13 Jul 2015 02:04

The standard electric workhorse of IR WAP-4 is fitted for the most part with rheostat devices on the roof as pictured above. They seem to be supplied to IR by Daulat Ram engineering:

http://www.daulatram.com/dy4.htm

The newest toy in the IR stable WAG-9 does have regenerative braking and 6350hp of tractive power. You can see a lone WAG-9 lurking way in the distance at Guntakal in part 2 of the video. It is also seen in another video I posted aeons ago on the double decker from MAS to SBC, it is seen biding it's time at Jolarpet outer. Temps can rise to 400C and one needs fans etc. to cool. What you are seeing at Kalyan shed is with the protective cover and fan assembly removed. You can see the link at Daulat Ram engineering to see what the rheostats covered look like.

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 13 Jul 2015 13:26

arshyam:
Quote: Personally, if Mr. Prabhu stays on as Rail min for the full term, IR will have recovered a lot of lost ground - his emphasis on more lines, decongestion, infra investments etc. are exactly what IR needs, not more trains. So far, I have seen him walking his talk - speaking for the Chennai area, his budget allocated funds to the following: Korukkupet-Ennore 3/4th lines, Tiruvallur-AJJ 4th line, Tambaram-Chengalpet 3rd line (by converting the old MG track), Chenglpet-Villupuram doubling, BBQ-MAS 5/6th lines, and new platforms at Beach and upgrading Tambaram to a terminal. Some allocation done to a new line between Ennore and Puttur, which is on the Arakkonam-Renigunta section on the Mumbai mainline. This will presumably connect to the new ports at Ennore and Kattupalli directly, avoiding the super-staturated Arakkonam-Chennai section. Unquote;
Would like the views of those familiar with the Chennai suburban network to respond to the following suggestion.
Currently Chennai has four suburban route networks. There is the Central-Arakkonam (west bound), Central-Gummidpoondi (North bound), Beach-Tambaram (South West bound) and then there is Beach-Velachery with possible extension in the near future to St Thomas Mount (South-East, upto Thiruvanmiyur and veering due West towards Velachery/St. Thomas Mount). Recently, a few of the trains on the Velachery-Beach section are extended up to Arakkonam to serve the commuter traffic for the IT hub in Taramani. This is only adding to the criss-cross movement of trains on the two sections as additional set of trains would make the switch from north bound line to the west at the Korukkupet junction. Instead, it would be far better to utilise the platform capacity at Fort and Beach (both have six platform each, if I recall correctly) to serve as terminal stations for all suburban trains from Gummidipoondi, Tambaram and Velachery/St Thomas Mount). Such a route network redesign completely avoids the need for criss-cross movement of trains between suburban trains bound for North (Gummidipoonid) and long distance trains bound for the West (for destinations such as Bangalore, Trivandrum, Mumbai etc.). The only drawback that I can see is that long distance passengers alighting at Central and going to their suburban destinations on the Gummidipoondi line would have to trudge extra distance towards the Fort Station as the present terminus at the Moore Market complex is right next to the Central Station. This is a small trade-off in the interest of faster throughput on the railway lines. In any case, once Chennai Metro Rail starts functioning and the facility of travelling on inter-lines with a common ticket is put in place, there should be no difficulty for these passengers to hop into a metro line riht across the Central Station and get down at Fort or Beach stations to hop once again into a suburban train bound for Gummidipoondi operated by the railways.

Uttam · Post by **Uttam** » 14 Jul 2015 22:57

Gandhidham-Tuna Tekra private railway line

The dry bulk cargo terminal at Tuna Tekra near Kandla port was connected with railway network of the country as Railway Minister Suresh Prabhy flagged off the first goods train on Gandhidham-Tuna Tekra through remote-control system from Rail Bhavan in New Delhi on Tuesday. This is second non-government railway line in Gujarat after one connecting Pipapav port in Amreli. The 17.55 km-long broad gauge railway line is a private rail and has been constructed at the cost of Rs185 crore. Kandla Port Trust (KPT) which manages Kandla port and Adani Port and Special Economic Zone (APSEZ) of Adani Group have funded the railway project. Construction of the new line started in May 2014 and it was completed within a year. KPT and APSEZ has built a dry cargo terminal off Tuna Tekra, some four km away from Tuna port on public private partnership (PPP) mode. The KPT has awarded the project to APSEZ on build, operate and transfer (BOT) basis for a period of 30 years. Adani Kandla Bulk Terminal Private Limited (AKBTPL), a subsidiary of APSEZ has built the cargo terminal at the cost of approximately Rs1,200 crore while KPT has also spent around Rs200 crore for one-time dredging at the terminal. At any given time, four vessels can dock the terminal which has capacity to handle 14 million metric tonns per annum (MMTPA) cargo. The terminal was commissioned in February this year.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 15 Jul 2015 21:13

As trains snake past Dudhsagar Falls, fatalities begin to mount
One of the dumbest reports I have ever seen in a news paper. The reporter does not seems to have a clue on safety procedures in IR, how (and why) passenger schedules are made and what are rights & duties of the public (travelling or other wise). This report, I feel is mainly written for the Yuppy crowd of Bengaluru, who generally are equally clueless as the news paper - Bangalore Mirror

.

After reading this all I can say is More power to the RPF (for doing the lathi charges).

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 15 Jul 2015 22:13

^^Precisely. And these parts don't evoke any sympathy:

The day also witnessed tourists pelting stones at the passing Vasco-Hazrat Nizamuddin express for not stopping at the Dudhsagar station. Around 12 window panes of the train's air-conditioned compartments were shattered as the doors were not opened for the tourist mobs to gain entry into the A/C coaches.

So much for the 'educated' crowd behaving decently, and the stone-pelting and unreserved-passengers-barging-into-reserved-compartments phenomena restricted to the poor 'naarth'.

And this:

"The place has also turned out to be like a dustbin and it is high-time some action is taken to regulate the tourist crowds."

Renuka Prasad, a final year BSc student from Bengaluru who regularly visits Dudhsagar Falls, said, "This is one of most awesome tourist spots in the country. When so many tourists are eager to visit the place why has the government failed to provide basic amenities? It is true that tourists are getting injured mainly because trains do not stop and there is literally no place to stand. So, instead of cops targeting the tourists, why can't some safety measures be set up at the place?"

Spoken like a true BSc grad who has no notion of science. The damn waterfall ensures the tracks need a bridge to cross it, and the terrain ensures that there is a curve and a grade at which the bridge and tracks are laid. So trains cannot stop. If they do, will these 'educated' tourists help push them along? Plus, IR has something called safety regulations, and they can't build stations or halts just about anywhere. Such halts need to ensure that passengers can disembark safely, and the trains can safely stop and start from the halt. Dudhsagar is not one such place, unless they rebuild the entire alignment.

At least the article did ask the railways for a comment, and their response is to the point:

Railway officials on their part said the issue has emerged as a "big headache".

South Western Railways Chief Public Relations Officer Ghanashyam Verma said, "The trains cannot stop here (Dudhsagar) due to the steep gradient. Let's clarify that we have no plans to introduce train stops at Dudhsagar as of now as the tracks have reached saturation level. So, the only option to open Dudhsagar for tourists is through a land route. (But currently, there are no land routes to Dudhsagar. If a tourist has to visit the place, he has to either board a train or jump at the station as the train slows down, or trek for several kilometres to reach the place.) We have had several meetings with the officials from Goa to explore possibilities of acquiring land to construct a road. We are also in touch with the Belagavi deputy commissioner over the issue."

vipins · Post by **vipins** » 15 Jul 2015 22:50

vsunder wrote:
vipins wrote:Looks like IR is going for solar big time.Noticed lots of solar panels on railway land and even atop small stations on Delhi-Agra line.This is mostly a 5 tracks line now.Also bharat forge factory near Faridabad have something interesting lying covered near the railway line.
I doubt what you are saying here that Delhi-Agra has a 5th line, proof? I know that there was a tender out for 5th line from New Delhi station to Tilak Bridge ( 3.6 km) where the Supreme court of India is. The tender also mentions a 6th line. What do you mean 5th line, please clarify it with a video proof if you can. I even doubt there is a 4th line between Delhi and Agra, leave alone 5th and 6th. Typically 4th line will exist if there is EMU activity, like around Mumbai to Ambernath or Mumbai to Kasara, or Chennai-Tiruvarur, and 4th line to be perhaps extended to Arrakonam (AJJ=Arakkonam Joint Junction) under construction?? . Here one should have third line to Jolarpet. It is a congested section.

I don't have any video ,this is just what I noticed while traveling on that line after a long time.By 5 lines ,I meant that 5 pairs of clearly separated tracks.I am not sure if there is some technical term for it.Will try to get a video if I get a chance next time.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 16 Jul 2015 02:09

WRT Doodhsagar it is a gorgeous place and I’m with the public though I don’t think it is the railways responsibility. And certainly the behavior is hard to believe.

IIRC a bad road winds to the bottom of the falls also a better one winds through the top of the falls. The state could easily upgrade the road, build a nice cable car system, charge the people and generate a few more jobs along the way. So many opportunities lost….

BTW I believe the state border passes thru Castle Rock so Doodhsagar is technically in Goa. So approach form Top side would require both states cooperation.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 16 Jul 2015 16:06

Theo_Fidel wrote:WRT Doodhsagar it is a gorgeous place and I’m with the public though I don’t think it is the railways responsibility.

The tourist crowd who cannot live another day without seeing Doodhsagar should pressurise the civic authorities (in KA and GA) to provide them an alternate route. And from what I read in other news items, the tourists have also dirtied the place to a considerable extent. And there is also another problem. The most beautiful aspect of the water fall is invariably, right at the point of the railway bridge. There is actually a trekking path to reach the very bottom of this very same waterfall. But the view is less impressive it seems. So all said and done, "tourists" cannot dictate terms with IR, on how they should operate the trains etc. If the trekking gangs from Bengaluru, are so belligerent let the RPF make them into "sprinting gangs" by lining up their men next to the tracks and lathi charging them all the way up to Castle Rock. Two three such incidents, the tourists would learn to behave themselves.

BTW, I first saw Doodhsagar around 18 years back on my way to an NCC camp at Madgaon. At that time, this water fall was pretty much unknown. Our train had stopped some where near this waterfall, to test its brakes, and perhaps for another train coming up to be pulled into a loop line. Being peak summer, the water levels were also not that great. I went the same way last year, and the crowd at the waterfall was much higher. There is a "station" (technical halt) at Dudhsagar, where the SM has put up a board saying no passenger trains would stop here, and no tickets would be issued.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 16 Jul 2015 20:09

WRT Doodhsagar way back in the 70's I remember there being tourists trying to get there. Back then they would get onto

In these matter the TN government is very organized. Much better that than even KL. Though I’m not sure this is a good thing. Every waterfall in TN has proper approach, bathing platform and tight security. Roaring business is conducted though the filth problems remain, but will be fixed over time. Things are already much cleaner than they used to be though immensely more crowded.

BTW I have to commend the way TN is cleaning up though from a very low base. There are still some horrible areas but improvement is visible.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 16 Jul 2015 20:16

Theo_Fidel wrote:WRT Doodhsagar way back in the 70's I remember there being tourists trying to get there. Back then they would get onto...
In these matter the TN government is very organized. Much better that than even KL.

First, the image you posted was from Kuttralam water fall?

. Second, in 1970s there would be real genuine trekkers who would have made the visits. But the numbers would low, and the trains running on the line would have been lower. Even 18 odd years back, the line was a meter gauge line, and with no mobile phones or internet the crowd would have been way too less. At that time, it was this NCC camp which gave me a chance to see the water-fall, until then I never even knew this existed. So think about the 1970s?

. But today the same location is bombarded by 1000s of people, who are all tech-savvy, have more money to spend, but have no basic knowledge about safety (and rail operations), but with an attitude and 'sense of entitlement' (I came here to Dudhsagar, the trains should now stop for me).

In the very same trip (18 years back), I noticed another phenomenon. At unscheduled halts, villagers would bring wood bundles from the forest. The bundle would have an iron hook, which they just hook onto the train windows. They board the train (and the other bonafide passengers can sulk) This if I remember used to happen between Londa Jn, and Castle Rock. And before Castle Rock, these village folks would start releasing the hooks one by one, and when the train slows down jump out and go on their ways picking the bundles of wood.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 16 Jul 2015 21:53

My post fired prematurely.

But yes back in the MG days I very much remember folks riding the locomotive to Doodhsagar. The pilots would obligingly stop for folks or at least slow down as they hopped off. Not many but definitely in the hundreds even back then. The entire concept of trekking was mostly unknown back then. But touristy stuff at waterfalls was very popular, esp. for folks from the furnace like Eastern plains. I remember because on two occasions I rode the locomotive down to the base with a couple of my school buddies as the lMG locomotives were restricted to 10kmph type speeds on chunks of the line so you would hop out of your carriage and walk to front and hop onto the loco. Goa was very popular before the TASMAC days. Both sides of the locomotives were packed with sightseers, almost all young men. I have feeling this ride sharing is strictly frowned upon now.

All I'm saying there is nothing wrong in the public's demand. It is just that the authorities fail to develop facilities for the public and then wonder why people are acting up. Organized facilities need to be provided or people start taking matters into their own hands. Things will continue till some rail-roko incident happens and finally the authorities that be get their a$$ in gear.

Anyway it looks like something will be improved for next season.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city ... 093139.cms

Rajalingam Basu, senior divisional commercial manager, South-Western Railway, said there has been a proposal from Belagavi DC and also from Goa officials for an additional train to the destination. But he says a minimum number of passengers is essential to provide such a train. Or else, it is impossible to provide additional railway service to this location. Apart from that, this area is in dense forest and the land here is slippery. There are many technical difficulties to establish a station and provide other amenities. "We appeal to the people travelling here to be safe as the terrain is highly risky. Authorities are trying to provide some amenities and that work will start in the next season," he said.

BTW looks the ride sharing is still common. Good on for the loco engineers though they are probably breaking many rules.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 17 Jul 2015 18:44

the recent news item about failure to get the act of converting some of the major railway stations (at least A and B class cities) to world class infrastructure levels is really appalling. i just can't understand what is the mushkill?

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 17 Jul 2015 19:35

Saikji link please?