Indian Autos Thread

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ldev
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by ldev »

German cars are great to drive, phenomenal balance between ride comfort and handling and they feel safe at high speeds due to their autobahn tuned origins. But they are a money pit as far as maintenance is concerned. I have access to some high end vehicles e.g. driving a 2013-2014 Mercedes Benz S550 4MATIC, is some experience, from 60 kmph to 160 kmph, even at 50% throttle, it accelerates like a jet aircraft on take off. However my friend who owns the S550 calls it the $500 car!! Because any visit, however simple to the dealer, results in a minimum bill of $500, even for the mechanic to just peek under the hood!!
niran
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by niran »

Raja Bose wrote:Dunno about the VWs sold in India but VW build quality of cars sold in massa are paki. For reliability best to stick to Japanese brands. Germanics are typically much more unreliable.
German cars except Merc and beemer have quality equivalent to premier padmini of 80s. (based on cars localy in me neck of woods) by year 3 you will need engine/ gear work (no not oil/filter change but real engine work where it is opened up) Beemers will need engine coolant plug change in year 5 regardless of km used. this is because they still use aluminum caps in place of Bronze caps the Japs use. Merc power steering hydraulic pipes will go kaput in 3 years this is true for ever model since 2000 (dunno what the cause is) and don't get me started on beemer, aah! i remember have posted about beemer quality and timeline about things going kaput somewhere on BRF.
arshyam
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by arshyam »

pandyan wrote:^^ is it 1.8T or VR6? btw, there is an interesting video (in a good way) of VR6 engine by Engineering Explained. VR6 is really a single block with cylinders slight offset and looks like an inline 6 only compact length wise.

as far as I know, most of the VWs are made in mexico now for the americas. not sure where it comes from for india. I doubt the issues are related to final assembly. batteries are german made I believe as are many small items. they had a huge problem with cracking window holders and window with drop down all of a sudden. then engines had the bad habit of drinking oil requiring owners to keep a careful eye on the engine oil level. dealership network is also few and far.
1.8T saar, good enough for my needs.

VWs were expensive till recently, I think they started production in the US (or Mexico as you said). The prices dropped too, IIRC. But the earlier ones like mine imported from Germany.

As for India, I think they are assembled in Chakan, and not imported. The parts may have different levels of local sourcing, I am not sure either.
putnanja wrote:I had a Honda Civic in 2000, while some of my friends bought VW Jettas & Passats 2000 model new. Our cars did similar mileage, and after 10 years my Civic was still running strong with just regular maintenance. The VWs had so many niggling issues that my friends sold off their cars and bought different ones, not VWs! One of my friend who bought an Accord too had trouble-free ownership and sold his car recently.
There was a time period around 2003-06 when Jettas seemed to have a run of issues. I know of one person who had bought a Jetta in that time frame, and seemed to have some issues with his car. Not sure how serious they were, though. But VW sort of cleaned up after 2006 with their next gen, some of my friends have Jettas/Passats, didn't hear any complaints from them.

If the choice is between a Civic and a Jetta, I would go straight for the Civic. Retains value better. But with other Japanese models, it's not such a straight decision.

Toyota messed up their reputation by not focussing on quality around 2008-11, when they had recall after recall, the most serious ones related to the sticky accelerator pedal. I swore off Toyotas ever since, and haven't regretted. Plus, Toyota cars have cheap looking rental car type plastic interiors, especially when compared to a Honda of similar price range. I have observed this especially on the Camry, which I rented 2 times in the last six months. Was disappointed, considering it was a Camry. Honda does a better job with feature comforts even on their most basic models, and looks classy, relatively speaking. Engine wise, both are equally good. I did have a 15 year old Corolla for 2 years in madrassa days, and I added 30K miles to it in 2 years, which was a mean feat, considering her already advanced age (15 years old, 150 to 180K miles!). At the same time, my fellow batch mates had a selection of 18-yo Accords topping at 220K and older Camrys! So yes, Japanese cars run a very long time.

As for Nissan, the only data point I have is from a friend, who's Maxima stuggled with clutch issues. Finally traded it in as the clutch plate (which seemed to be the culprit) gave out and needed replacement, but was costing around 2.5K USD in a local garage, not even the official Nissan service centre! Turns out the engine compartment had to be opened and a bunch of stuff removed before being able to access the clutch mechanism.

Chandragupta-ji, hope I haven't confused you by these long posts!
rahulm
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by rahulm »

Maybe one day, the funnest car in the world, the Alfa Romeo 4C is available in the India at some time in the future. Alfa lost its way for many years, indeed decades but with the 4C they have re-announced their arrival as a sporty fun marquee claiming its lost glory.

The sound of a classic Alfetta with the legendary 1954 era all aluminum (very advanced for that era) 4 pot 2L OHC throttling its twin weber carbs, gleaming chrome highlights and short leg long arm (unusual) driving position or a 3.0 GTV/Spyder with the rasping Busso (the best sounding V6 of all time) is a class and refinement apart from the super car genre excess of Aston Martin, Lambo's, Ferrari's which are essentially hoon cars.

If only the newer Alfa's could be more reliable and the classics were not held together by rust (Russian steel). But, they when they are running they are a hoot.
Kashi
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Kashi »

I had a chat with few hybrid car owners and they are quite happy with the performance and fuel efficiency. Toyota Prius for instance had a mileage in excess of 25km/l as per one.

Of course driving conditions and roads are different around the world but I think one can safely assume we would do well to encourage the the domestic manufacture and use of hybrids around the country. It should help with auto fuel consumption and that would reflect positively on crude import bill.
member_28640
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by member_28640 »

Hybrids like these saar?
Image
Image
Image
Now before you report my post, i'm trying to make a point. The cost of an actual hybrid is very high in India.
Actual Hybrids require high precision parts that no contractor is willing to make not to mention battery technology. Hence a manufacturer is forced to go for Full Import route and this means that the same Prius in Desh is 25 lacks.. It has the same space as a Honda Jazz which is 20 lacks cheaper.. Think about how much fuel you get for 20 lack rupees. VFM Mindset onleee saar
Kashi
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Kashi »

GopiN wrote:Now before you report my post, i'm trying to make a point. The cost of an actual hybrid is very high in India.
Actual Hybrids require high precision parts that no contractor is willing to make not to mention battery technology. Hence a manufacturer is forced to go for Full Import route and this means that the same Prius in Desh is 25 lacks.. It has the same space as a Honda Jazz which is 20 lacks cheaper.. Think about how much fuel you get for 20 lack rupees. VFM Mindset onleee saar
Exactly. These cars are expensive because they are imported. If the manufacturers can be encouraged to set up manufacture of these cars in India, the costs will come down. It's all about economies of scale. If a contractor sees a profitable venture he'll try and go for it.

Of course as you pointed out, it's not so simple since there may not be enough skill set to replicate the advanced engineering necessary to locally produce the batteries and other crucial components.
member_28640
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by member_28640 »

Saar the subcontractors can always be hustled into producing mechanical parts with better and better tolerance values, but the Indian electric industry is still nascent and focuses on heavy industry. Local LiPo production facilities just cannot come up due to the intense competition from China (This is mainly due to most Lithium Mining happens in China upto 95%). The more complex the car the more industries it involves and in India those industries havent yet come up. This is where Make in India is important
uddu
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by uddu »

Maruti Suzuki aims to make hybrids affordable, offer technology on cars from Alto to Swift hatchback
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ind ... 120758.cms

Maruti is aiming to make hybrids affordable and wants to offer the technology on cars right from the Alto, the cheapest in its product portfolio, to the Swift premium hatchback over the next three to four years, said people with knowledge of the carmaker's plans. In the process, it is taking the 'Kitna Deti Hai' (how many miles does it give) slogan to the next level.

These people said Maruti's hybrid solution could deliver 20-30% more fuel economy.

"A large part of the development is happening in Japan and key inputs from Indian R&D engineers are also being absorbed. The idea is to offer a technology to the mass with not a major price difference over existing petrol cars."

"The success of hybrid depends on affordability as the Indian consumer is highly value and cost-conscious," said Gaurav Vangaal, senior analyst, forecasting, at IHS Automotive. "Maruti can penetrate the cost levels in India given the volume of its products."


The huge import bill on crude oil is always a worry for India and to limit it, the automotive industry needs to start looking for viable alternatives
, Vangaal said.

Maruti to supply new Swift hybrids to government
http://www.autocarindia.com/auto-news/m ... 80888.aspx
Maruti Suzuki is all set to supply an undisclosed number of production-ready Swift hybrid hatchbacks, named Swift Range Entender, to the government as a part of its pilot project.

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 295_1.html
Swift Range Extender Hybrid was showcased at the 2014 Auto Expo and recently it was even showcased at the 2015 International Green Mobility Expo in New Delhi. The Swift Range Extender hybrid returns a fuel efficiency of 48.2km/l.

The Swift hybrid is powered by a 660cc petrol engine and an electric motor that together produce a power of 73bhp. The electric motor has a range of 25.5 kilometres and can be fully charged in 1.5 hours, through a 230V charging socket. The hatchback weighs 1600kgs, about 500kgs more than the regular Swift.

Image

Maruti Suzuki is planning to get hybrid cars in India, beginning with the Swift. Suzuki is working towards developing affordable hybrid car technology, with India being a key market for the company. The launch of the Swift hybrid is planned to be around 2017, however now the only challenger will be the price point at which it will be offered
Singha
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Singha »

Ford is using aluminium panels in f150. If it passes ok could save weight over steel.
hnair
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by hnair »

niran wrote:don't get me started on beemer, aah! i remember have posted about beemer quality and timeline about things going kaput somewhere on BRF.
Missed that. Can you please repost?
niran
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by niran »

something like
- at 8 month battery goes kaput (12 months if you are lucky)
- at 38000 km timing belt change they have rubber belt timing belt not metal
- 50000 km engine cooling valves change (major work involving taking down the whole engine)
- in 7 series every 8000 km you need to change all shock absorber bushings another looong stay and huge payout at mechanic
- in 5 series by 65000 km major electrical/sensor work like oxygen sensor, oil sensor, heat sensor going kaput and the car refusing to start
- by 75000km the electronic engine management computer (beemer staff words not mine) kaput me had to pay 28000 INR in 1998 that is about 56000 in current era
- by 100000 gear, engine, windows even the damn clock needs attention (softest word i can find)

compare accord to 7 series and civic to 5 series onree regular oil change, brake pad (15000 km) Tyre change(55000km) and battery change (3 years)
no complain in 15+ years for accord and 7 years for civic till now every i insert the key am confident i won't a dead car (touch wood)
Chandragupta
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by Chandragupta »

Thanks arshyam guru for the insights. Had another look at Altis, Jetta, Octavia & even the new Verna. I seem to have missed the totally atrocious interiors of the new Altis. They're ridiculously bad for a car that costs 17L on road. I checked out the new Verna just for the heck of it, loaded to the hilt with all kinds of features and no doubt a great option for a smaller sedan, may be I'll replace one of my hatchbacks with it later this year, god willing. Anyway, so I have more or less zeroed in on the Jetta diesel. Feels like a beast, I say it again because it is a badass tough car with excellent ride quality. Hope to close it in a couple of days will report on my initial experiences here.
arshyam
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by arshyam »

Please sir, not a guru by any stretch of imagination. Just sharing my experience, that's all. All the best with your new purchase.
panduranghari
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by panduranghari »

Up vote for Honda. Have 2. One for wife which is 5 year old Insight hybrid bought from new. Mine is 26 year old civic. Still going strong. Bought it in 2008. And still is strong. Wife does not like it nor do my friends who are all posh (or at least think they are). Honda claim their VVTI engine has NEVER failed ever, globally.
hnair
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by hnair »

niran wrote:something like
- at 8 month battery goes kaput (12 months if you are lucky)
- at 38000 km timing belt change they have rubber belt timing belt not metal
- 50000 km engine cooling valves change (major work involving taking down the whole engine)
- in 7 series every 8000 km you need to change all shock absorber bushings another looong stay and huge payout at mechanic
- in 5 series by 65000 km major electrical/sensor work like oxygen sensor, oil sensor, heat sensor going kaput and the car refusing to start :eek:
- by 75000km the electronic engine management computer (beemer staff words not mine) kaput me had to pay 28000 INR in 1998 that is about 56000 in current era
- by 100000 gear, engine, windows even the damn clock needs attention (softest word i can find)

compare accord to 7 series and civic to 5 series onree regular oil change, brake pad (15000 km) Tyre change(55000km) and battery change (3 years)
no complain in 15+ years for accord and 7 years for civic till now every i insert the key am confident i won't a dead car (touch wood)
<pops in a bottle of gelusil>

I would have to drive to Bengaluru (where it was bought), since the pakis over in Kochi dealership has once put in spurious parts (long story, the dealership at Chennai found out and reported to the country head. They sorted it out, but no more going there!). I use chubbier tyres nowadays, due to low-profile ones getting banged up by Kerala's NH, so changed the suspension a bit
nachiket
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Re: Indian Autos Thread

Post by nachiket »

Chandragupta wrote:Thanks arshyam guru for the insights. Had another look at Altis, Jetta, Octavia & even the new Verna. I seem to have missed the totally atrocious interiors of the new Altis. They're ridiculously bad for a car that costs 17L on road. I checked out the new Verna just for the heck of it, loaded to the hilt with all kinds of features and no doubt a great option for a smaller sedan, may be I'll replace one of my hatchbacks with it later this year, god willing. Anyway, so I have more or less zeroed in on the Jetta diesel. Feels like a beast, I say it again because it is a badass tough car with excellent ride quality. Hope to close it in a couple of days will report on my initial experiences here.
If you were considering the Corolla and Jetta, why did you see the Verna? You should have checked out its larger sibling, the Elantra. It has equal if not more interior space than the Corolla and looks better as well. Hyundai's after-sales service in India is pretty solid. Much better than VW anyway.
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