Indian Autos Thread

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Nov 2014 07:19

in 10 years. my daily commute has been less, always round trip of <10km, and <7km for last 3 yrs. and for 5 yrs of 10 I was taking office transport mostly.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Nov 2014 09:14

Raja Bose wrote:vina mullah dreams of Beemer but drives Lancer, dreams of iPhone but uses Lumia. If you continue in this fashion, your Ivy Liga biz school will disown you and stop you sending sample bottles of aphrodisiac aftershave.

Ah, but didn't I tell you that my other vehicle is a Rs 1.6cr one ? Anyways, what is wrong with the Lancer Ji ? SHQ uses it to go to work, our driver (a retired policeman, who rose through the ranks and retired as an officer), vetted and handpicked for us by the current BLR Police Commissioner (when he was in an earlier position), is kicked about it, saying that it was a "Minister's" car (evidently, that used to be the favoured vahan among the Mantri Mahoday Log a decade ago), SHQ is happy with it's ride quality and grumbles when she sits in any other car..So we really are riding "Mantri Vahans" , a step up from Babu Vahans I suppose!

And most importantly , it is a stick shift. We no drive no automatics like someone who drives all while testing their phone and audio systems and owns one himself

Ah , and as for dreaming about cars, I have an eye on the cars parked in the showrooms in Vittal Mallya Road and Lavelle Road here in BLR. I particularly like the car in red in the Vittal Mallya one and the yellow ones in Lavelle Road.. Sigh......

One vaaris of a political dynasty with house on the mini forest in J********* Nagar has a Maserati and another real estate type close by tools around in a red Audi R8.. The Maserati and the Audi R8 well are a meh, but the ones in the showrooms in Vittal Mallya Road and Lavelle road are traffic stoppers for sure.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 06 Nov 2014 09:42

AdityaM wrote:I bought a Mahindra Quanto..Sometimes need two hands and body weight to close the door.

You have company

. I refer to this vehicle as Idi Vandi (punching van- a slang used to refer to police jeeps and police vans in commie heaven). I had a Wagon R earlier. I wanted to move to a Diesel vehicle and which has the "tall boy" look. Innova was way above the budget. XYLO or Scorpio, we do not have such a big family to utilise it. So we decided to go for the Quanto.

Certainly it does not have the Maruti finish. But the vehicle seems to be sturdy and I am happy with the engine power. People who sit at the back generally crib about the high body roll, but for the driver and assistant it is manageable. To sum it up, Mahindra still has a long way to go when it comes to getting the finnese which Japanese cars have.

Singha wrote:to be fair I have not see single quanto here.

Sales not as high as Scorpio or XUV, but I do see a bit more Quantos when compared to the days when I purchased the vehicle (a year back). But I feel many who wants such type of a vehicle may go for Scorpio. At least in our area Scorpio, XUV etc. seems to be the favourite of the land-owning class

.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Nov 2014 10:29

I need to repair some scraches in the bottom of door area. do dealerships here sell small spraycans or pens of the color codes? or do they just want to push you in the paint shop and inflated bills?

the way I see it, I need a car paint primer of dull grey colour, some fine sandpaper, the colour coded can/bottle and then a clearcoat.

a few spots of exposed bare metal have started to rust hence I cannot ignore it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 06 Nov 2014 10:39

Dealerships literally salivate on Denting and Painting jobs, they only fully paint the door panels etc. Try a local worshop etc, who can do a better job.

negi · Post by **negi** » 06 Nov 2014 11:18

GD search for body work, paint shop on TBHP . I think a member there posted good reviews about a shop on Hosur road which does neat work.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Nov 2014 13:16

any dealership work means a bill of 10k. its a small area say 2 inch x 3 inch and I dont care for the looks dept as I intend to keep the car for another 6-8 yrs. nobody is going to cut me any slack for a immaculate look when I finally trade in my 10-12 yr old car. the diff will be intangible.

I want to get it over with below 2k on my DIY basis.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 06 Nov 2014 13:38

GD saab- your civic is 4 years old, anther 6 years for a TFTA IT General like you? Will you be taking the Ecosport on long distance drives. BTW reading the ES manual, while for the 1.5P and 1.0P MT, it is recommended to transfer at 60kph and 59kph respectively, for the AT 5th is recommended at 70kph and 6th 80kph. Seems to me that the 6th gear is really tall in the AT. It is marginally heavier than the Ecoboost and heaviest of the Petrol variants and most feature laden of all Ecosports.

Meanwhile along the east coast, I have driven 50km for 4days, average FE of 8km and speed of 12kph.

negi · Post by **negi** » 06 Nov 2014 14:19

Since I never got any paint or repair job done in Blore my knowledge about this matter is just from hearsay.

Following is a thread dedicated to all such shops in Bangalore on TBHP.

http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/modificat ... alore.html

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Nov 2014 07:47

my car is 17k in 4.5 yrs. i will be around 50k in 10yrs. I could keep it longer if things pan out well.
thanks for link negi, I will check out with one of them.

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Nov 2014 08:38

^ It is always nice when you own a thing for long time, one gets emotionally attached to them and their monetary value after a certain period of time becomes irrelevant . My father still has his Bajaj Chetak scooter bought in 1994 which was our family's first and until 2013 only motor vahan . My mother refuses to sell it even though one cannot ride it in the night as lamps have become too dim and it is showing it's age . Some of the kitchen utensils like the Hawkins cooker and the soup ladle are older than even yours truly , I brought some of those items here after marriage.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Nov 2014 09:24

Buying new and keeping a car for 7+ years makes sense, you get enough time to save for anther car while still making sure you have a comfortable ride and saving for family priorities.

The ones who change cars every 2 years are mostly show offs or ones with extra money.

Meanwhile, the Government has finally taken a good decesion, expect cars like the Maruti Swift, Ciaz, City etc to suddenly feel the need for putting on more weight in the next few years.

Coming soon: New norms to make air bags must for all cars

I am singling out the Petrol Ciaz where deliberately lightened a 4.54m length car to weight 1010 kg just to make it derivable with the K14 engine.

Its much lighter than cars which are 2-3ft shorter with no exotic materials like Boron Steel, Carbon fibre etc being used.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Nov 2014 09:51

GE capital leasing service organized a large car mela at our office yesterday. I got some time to check out a few things.
lot of parents brought their kids also to enjoy crawling all over the vehicles

- for eye candy purpose bmw, merc, land rover, jaguar,volvo and suzuki superbikes were there for selfies mostly
- the maruti ciaz looks very much like a nissan sunny
- the new corolla altis front end to me looked really ugly, the rear looked ok.
- the fiat adventura looked cramped back seat and more like a rebadged punto or large palio adventure(remember that?) its spare wheel is mounted outside but not attached to the door...its on a steel frame you swing to the right like a door, then you open the hatch door upward. peculiar. why not a proper side opening door with wheel also fixed on it.
- the duster interior looked really cheap and trailing edge. round cheesy air vents with big round louvres that would be the pride of a economy american vehicle of mid 90s model like chevy cavalier. the dash really nothing to write about barring a large central MFD. the middle seat in the back is tough as a raised tunnel goes back over the floor. the boot is deceptively small and high floor as the spare wheel is below it and takes up a lot of volume.
- the tata zest was a huge disappointment....the body panel gaps were wide as indica , the interior plastics and upholstery were cheesy and low quality looking....only thing is its a roomy vehicle like all tatas...the paint job was good which is expected being a brand new vehicle. why on earth they cannot get their body panel tolerances and moulds into proper shape beats me. door close did not have the clean solid thunk we like
- the honda mobilio looked like a useful piece of work despite the usual honda issue of being low to the ground. but like the Ertiga it is a narrow vehicle and 3 adults would be very tight in the back. but the 3rd row seat looked roomier than the tiny one in the ertiga and useable atleast by children. its a fairly long vehicle and with a roof rack, could haul a family of 4 and a ton of luggage...kind of the old american family station wagon.
- toyota etios was its usual sub-par self. they had painted one etios in racing logos to make it exciting though.
- did not get a time to examine the aria and safari storme in depth..they have good colour brochures.

overall among the affordable vehicles hyundai, VW, honda and ford looked to have the best panel tolerances with VW & honda perhaps the tightest and most soothing paintjobs.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 07 Nov 2014 10:51

+1 on VW. I got a VW and Hyundai, build quality is quite different on these cars. VW is built like a tank, got a great diesel engine and good FE. When the time comes, I might sell of my Hyundai and get another VW, or Skoda if they get their act straight in India. What a great car, but wasted A.S.S.

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Nov 2014 11:32

VW might be better than the Japenese car makers when it comes to panel gaps and over all thickness of the sheet metal being used to make the doors and chasis (that is why Polo weighs so much more than others in same segment, I guess only Punto outweighs it) but their petrol engines are not as refined as those of Toyotas or Hondas . Call me biased but unless it is a SUV I don't like sitting inside a diesel engine powered car it sounds like a tractor (whatever be the NVH levels the rumble of diesel and vibrations make it so unrefined ) the only reason people like diesels in India is because of existing regulations. The sight of BMW 320D belching black smoke is such a turn off for a moment I find no difference between it and a Tata indica. When you sit inside a Honda and engine running at idle RPM one cannot even make out if the car is running now that is what I call refinement , Hondas give FE without compromising on engine stability whereas VW gives a high FE engine at cost of a cylinder those Polos are 3 cylinder cars with a additional counterweight to limit the vibrations that is why they shudder so much when you start the engine or go down on 1st/2nd gears.

Euros make good diesel engines but when it comes to petrol they can not hold a candle to Japanese in <1.5 liter category . High capacity 2+ ltr engines is a different arena and imo not applicable for majority of us in India.

negi · Post by **negi** » 07 Nov 2014 11:37

Btw NACP today asked Nissan to recall their Datsun go after latter failed miserably in safety tests. Imo a good development for the Indian consumer .

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 07 Nov 2014 15:21

For Singha Saar
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/technical ... tools.html
Good thread on painting and dent repair

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 07 Nov 2014 15:36

negi wrote:VW might be better than the Japenese car makers when it comes to panel gaps and over all thickness of the sheet metal being used to make the doors and chasis (that is why Polo weighs so much more than others in same segment, I guess only Punto outweighs it) but their petrol engines are not as refined as those of Toyotas or Hondas . .

Negi, been reading this stuff on Team BHP, where some Maruti fans have reduced heavier doors to just sheet metal forgetting, the main reasons many of the doors are heavier is because there is reinforced steel beam to protect occupants which Maruti has removed for the Indian versions of their car. Hence, a Munde suffered in a relatively small impact from the side of his SX4. While I think Maruti has not tinkered with the body structure as such.

It is irritating that so called self declared car experts on Team-bhp have reduced heavier cars with reinforced steel bodies and Beams for protection from side impact have reduced the debate to just thickness of sheet metal.

p.S- I applied once and for no reason they rejected my membership, so I might be slightly biased against Team-BHP, but i genuinely feel that there are a lot of misinformed and immature posts with little understanding of reality and social responsibility. Like some of them think it is others who are been discourteous when they wait 5 seconds when a signal turns green for their glow plug light to go off before crank up thier engines.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 07 Nov 2014 16:26

I got my membership a few years back but the quality of posters has gone down the drain.Too much moderation has made people leave or shift into lurk mode. Some of them shifted to gear heads.in. Except for a few good posters generally I ignore most of them and use the forum for info collection

The guys running gearheads run a independent garage called bay6 in Bangalore.

I

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Nov 2014 10:41

so we finally drove our ecosport home yesterday evening , with a halt at temple to get a pooja done.

colour is saffron and a huge Om symbol on the bonnet by the pujari.

initial impressions:-
- engine is not as pickup/powerful as the 1.8 on civic but thats understandable..its pretty quiet engine I think same as new fiesta
- gear changes are smooth and seamless
- the car is packed with a lot of features not usually found in that range incl the S mode with +- buttons on the gearshift lever
- cooled glove compartment
- very comfortable driver seat with height and lumbar adjustment
- the steering wheel is light and floaty with a lot of play
- the accelerator pedal is very soft, the brake pedal is hard in my car...will get it adjusted to be more soft.
- there is a microsoft 'sync' system that permits pairing with phones, voice calling, handsfree etc with a display screen. the duster has a much bigger screen though.
- the AC is pretty good. the music system sounded ok, I am not a audiophile.
- the back seats are very roomy for me a 6' adult....they can be tilted back for comfort
- the faux leather black upholstery with red stitching looks very good
- the boot space is surprisingly good
- best thing is - it glides over speedbreakers and through potholes that would be a white knuckle exp on my civic and shake my santro to the bone.
- the rear view mirrors are electrically adjusted, manually folded and very large, giving good view
- the A-pillar is a bit obstruction on some turns but so is it in the civic due to cab fwd design.
- they gave goodyear tyres which is ok. ppl have complained of mrf. the other choice by random in factory is apollo.
- a digital trip meter with various modes.
- the main console is rpm, speed and fuel.
- the center console has automatic climate control, AC modes, blinker, CD/radio/sync/car settings/phone etc.
- there is some kind rain sensing wiper sensor
- even rear wiper has water sprayer
- the center screen shows feedback from rear parking sensor to indicate which of the 4 is seeing obstruction.

one quirk is no lever for the fuel lid and boot opening. the car has to be turned off and remote used to unlock for these two to be opened. in indian malls and offices they make u stop to search the boot... i think will have to turn car off to unlock as pressing the unlock when engine was on did not seem to work or maybe i didnt understand it fully.

the second quirk is indicator and high/low beam stick on the left and wiper stick on right. looks like they make only one model of steering wheel.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 10 Nov 2014 11:21

Singha sir, congrats. I like the ecosport too especially the saffron one but hopefully I won't change my Swift for a few more years.

If the tyres are Goodyear duraplus, then it is a pretty decent one and so are the Apollo aceleres. MRF except ZLO are crappy.

Hear that the same EPS (electronic power steering) unit in the Fiesta has better steering feedback than the one on Ecosport. Don't know why Ford does not replace the figo with a Fiesta hatchback.

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 10 Nov 2014 11:48

Singha, congrats. As for the quirk you mentioned, I dont think you will need to switch off the car to open fuel lid/trunk. With the car running you should use the provided central unlock button, which would unlock your doors/trunk/fuel lid. There is small button on the trunk which should be depressed to open the trunk, Ford does not have the auto release feature in Ecosport.

negi · Post by **negi** » 10 Nov 2014 11:57

COngrats GD, fords, VWs and Skodas all have western style controls so wiper is on right side and indicators on left. Mars red is a nice colour it is the current in thing for 2014 releases of Polo, figo and Ecosport.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Nov 2014 12:36

thanks Javee....I have seen the central lock and unlock buttons..thought they were status buttons not push buttons! there are around 50 buttons and levers incl a full numeric keyboard.

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 10 Nov 2014 12:43

negi wrote:COngrats GD, fords, VWs and Skodas all have ~~western style controls so wiper is on right side and indicators on left.~~

Not western style, but rather controls suited for right-hand drive countries. Not all western countries are right-hand drive though

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Nov 2014 12:48

thats what i thought. the makers save money with one type only.
why do euro shifts have R in the diagonally opposite location?

http://image.internetautoguide.com/f/ga ... -pride.jpg

Javee · Post by **Javee** » 10 Nov 2014 13:32

Not just Euro's, even my Hyundai reverse is in the same location, I guess most of the automakers have standardized their stables keeping in mind for both domestic and export markets.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 10 Nov 2014 13:51

I am required to travel between 60-80 km per day in Mumbai trafic and looking for a small vehicle with gas option. Someone suggested VagonR. Is it ok. I mean cost and maintenance wise?

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 10 Nov 2014 14:17

Wagon R is easy on the pocket, reliable, has a decent engine and no maintenance issues. However totally unsafe. The seats are also not very great for long drives (lack of thigh support on the seats, bench type rear seats). It will be taxing to commute 60-80 kms per day in a Wagon R.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Nov 2014 14:51

i realized yesterday the autorickshaw is the least safe vehicle on indian roads! and its present in millions. it is also prone to tipping over on fast turns or side impacts. yet somehow one hardly hears of auto accidents...such is the nimbleness of the beast and the skills/chutzpah of the drivers.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 10 Nov 2014 15:19

there are accidents , you just dont see them. Have to agree, they have very good control and some of them drive crazy, will give you heart attack

negi · Post by **negi** » 10 Nov 2014 15:50

ArmenT wrote:
negi wrote:COngrats GD, fords, VWs and Skodas all have ~~western style controls so wiper is on right side and indicators on left.~~
Not western style, but rather controls suited for right-hand drive countries. Not all western countries are right-hand drive though

^ Err sir Jaguar and even LR which are UK based auto manufacturers have their controls like Fords and VW despite UK being left hand drive that is why I used western , the position of stalks is more for standardization sake else until 1950s controls on UK cars were like on Japenese.

SanjayC · Post by **SanjayC** » 10 Nov 2014 15:54

Yagnasri wrote:I am required to travel between 60-80 km per day in Mumbai trafic and looking for a small vehicle with gas option. Someone suggested VagonR. Is it ok. I mean cost and maintenance wise?

Go for the new K10 or Celerio. Better fuel efficiency with factory fitted gas, more stability. Avoid Wagon R. Very unsafe vehicle.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 10 Nov 2014 18:52

Yagnasri wrote:I am required to travel between 60-80 km per day in Mumbai trafic and looking for a small vehicle with gas option. Someone suggested VagonR. Is it ok. I mean cost and maintenance wise?

Gas might be difficult toget, loss power and more strain on Engine, dont want to consider a Diesel option, I think that will be much better. What is your budget, VW Polo DIesel is good if your Budget allows it.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 10 Nov 2014 18:57

Singha wrote:
one quirk is no lever for the fuel lid and boot opening. the car has to be turned off and remote used to unlock for these two to be opened. in indian malls and offices they make u stop to search the boot... i think will have to turn car off to unlock as pressing the unlock when engine was on did not seem to work or maybe i didnt understand it fully.

the second quirk is indicator and high/low beam stick on the left and wiper stick on right. looks like they make only one model of steering wheel.

My unlock on the Central console works when the Engine is on. Regarding indicators seems part of the One Ford concept.

So GD Sar, is your wife driving it or will you the run in and then give it to her?

negi · Post by **negi** » 10 Nov 2014 19:22

SanjayC wrote:
Yagnasri wrote:I am required to travel between 60-80 km per day in Mumbai trafic and looking for a small vehicle with gas option. Someone suggested VagonR. Is it ok. I mean cost and maintenance wise?
Go for the new K10 or Celerio. Better fuel efficiency with factory fitted gas, more stability. Avoid Wagon R. Very unsafe vehicle.

Excellent suggestions , buy Diesel only if you are going to keep the car to reach a break even stage for extra 1-1.5 lakhs you pay for a diesel engine. If de-regulation of fuel prices is here to stay you might be better of with petrol .

Avoid Germans, maintenance is high and spares expensive , cost of replacing a Polo clutch plate is ~3 times the cost of a K10 clutch plate. (I own a Polo)

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 10 Nov 2014 20:10

my wife paid for it, but so far has not raised any objection to my driving it sometimes to office or as often as I want.
she uses office vehicle for weekdays so the coast is always clear for me

weekends will be a redline though.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 10 Nov 2014 23:34

Guys, I am bit confused about the control placement discussion above. Let me say what I have observed so far:

Left hand drive: steering wheel is on the left side and one uses the left hand to primarily control the wheel. US, Germany, Canada, China most of Europe and S. America use left hand drive. Pretty much most of the world.

Right hand drive: wheel on the right side, and driver uses the right hand to primarily control the wheel. Left hand is for gear shift, etc. India, Australia, UK, Japan and parts of Africa use right hand drive.

Controls:
Left hand drive:
indicator - (wheel) - wiper
clutch - brake - accelerator
(all cars in the US)

Right hand drive:
wiper - (wheel) - indicator
clutch - brake - accelerator
(cars in India. Santro, Indica, etc.)

The exception I noticed was GM's Chevy Spark in India. They seemed to have taken the same controls in a US car and jacked it onto an Indian car without any application of mind. Very annoying to drive with this, especially in crowded roads in Hyd/Chennai. Using same hand for gear shift and indicators becomes tough on winding and crowded streets.

Till now, I thought that Spark was the only exception to place their controls like a left hand drive car, and all other cars in India used the right hand drive controls. Looks like that's not the case?

Can folks share their observations on control placements for different models?

negi · Post by **negi** » 11 Nov 2014 08:39

^ Yes I made a mistake in my second post it should be RHD for UK , Japan and India .

When you drive a car which is RHD the gear shift stick is on the left side so ergonomically it makes sense to have indicator stalks on right side for you can have your left hand on shift stick and use your fingers to flick the indicator stalk , which is the case with all Marutis , Hyundais and Hondas sold in India. Now when it comes to Fords or cars made in USA or even the Germans since they are LHD as those countries have Right hand traffic the gear shift stalk is on the right side of the steering column so it makes sense for them to have turning indicators on left side of the steering wheel column. For INdia they just take the entire steering column and put it on the right side without changing the position of indicator stalks or even the wiper .

If you would observe carefully even the direction in which wiper sweeps the windscreen is opposite , the fords and VW sold in INdia have this nasty issue where wiper cleans the left side of the windscreen better as against the right side where driver sits because they changed the steering column position without changing the wiper and other controls .

It makes economic sense for these car manufacturers to change the bare minimum config for LHD countries specially when most of the car manufacturers in the west have Right hand traffic. Japanese do not have to make special changes for us for they too drive on left side of the road.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 11 Nov 2014 10:06

Yagnasri
Don't know how old you are. My dad had all the Marutis K10, alto, Swift, 2 wagon R. He keeps changing them once in 6 months as his close friend is a used car dealer. He has a swift petrol now and don't know how long it will survive. He encountered hip problems with altos (as they are low slung) and was comfortable with Wagon R as you just walk into the car. However, he mentions that for longer drives, Wagon R seat lack of thigh support is an issue. If you want safer cars, would advise not to go for the low end Marutis. (celerio, alto, wagon R). Ritz, A-Star, Swift at least were designed for EURO NCAP norms and despite MSIL cutting corners on Indian versions, they fare slightly better than the tin can altos, celerio and Wagon R.

Polo GT TSI could be great for you considering it is automatic but as Negi said Europeans cars though safe are expensive. You can also look at the ZEST AMT for your commute

At 80kms a day, you will be ok with diesel