Indian Autos Thread

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Nov 2014 22:34

Aditya_V wrote:Negi- The Ecosport AT is also a 6 speed DSG, however, I don't think there have been any reliability issues with the Ford Fiesta 2011 petrol DSG or the Ecosport AT DSG.

DSG on VW platforms specially Skoda Laura is the one which caused too much takleef to the Indian buyers , that and lousy after sales service of Skoda India just made matters worse for lot of folks.

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 03 Nov 2014 10:38

Adding to the point about Indian versions of global cars being compromised on Safety.
http://www.ndtv.com/article/india/now-m ... sts-615429

Swift and Datson Go failing the G-NCAP crash test for India specifc cars.

Swift exported to Latin America is the equivalent of Indian top end Swift and scores a 3 star rating whilst the European version scores 5*. The Swift low end scores zero star due to absence of abs/airbags. The structural integrity is a shocker to me though and have to drink crow soup.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Nov 2014 10:52

I have seen a youtube TV channel video of ecosport vs duster wherein the host was claiming the ecosport was 100kg heavier.
specs on the web indicate the duster is 100-150kg heavier which looks ok to me given its wider, longer and has bigger wheels.
.....unless renault is quietly hollowing out the indian duster like the etios and ford is not.

marshallah it should be with us coming weekend. wife gave a last min heart attack by rubbing our santro against a parked bike in the basement and taking off its black door guard plastic piece....all 4 retaining clips ripped off from inside. purchased a tube of fevicol rubber glue and glued it up, backed up celltape until dry...looked ok today....have BANNED her from even thinking about driving the santro until I drop it on delivery day. have to apply a light coat of fine dust along the seam between plastic and door metal to give it back the aged look.

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Nov 2014 11:04

^ Is she getting the Civic then ?

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 03 Nov 2014 11:14

When I sold my Manza, a week before delivering it to the buyer, a stone fell from the construction site and broke the windshield. Had to spend ~ 5k for replacing the windshield.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Nov 2014 14:23

Singha wrote:I have seen a youtube TV channel video of ecosport vs duster wherein the host was claiming the ecosport was 100kg heavier.
specs on the web indicate the duster is 100-150kg heavier which looks ok to me given its wider, longer and has bigger wheels.
.....unless renault is quietly hollowing out the indian duster like the etios and ford is not.

marshallah it should be with us coming weekend. wife gave a last min heart attack by rubbing our santro against a parked bike in the basement and taking off its black door guard plastic piece....all 4 retaining clips ripped off from inside. purchased a tube of fevicol rubber glue and glued it up, backed up celltape until dry...looked ok today....have BANNED her from even thinking about driving the santro until I drop it on delivery day. have to apply a light coat of fine dust along the seam between plastic and door metal to give it back the aged look.

Singha Indian duster is lighter than ecosport atleast in India, the 2WD versions are 1160 KG and 4wd is 1236KG, Ford Es in India is 1240 KG to 1290KG.

Took delivery of ES today, odo was at 57km, have driven 8KM giving an average of 6.4 km/liter and average speed of 9 km/H in Chennai Traffic.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Nov 2014 15:11

When it rains Chennai Matches the Benguluru speed for traffic.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Nov 2014 15:15

congrats. where is the next road trip?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Nov 2014 15:20

Err. My 2nd son is 2.5 months old, plan to go to Pondy- Windflower or may be Nature trails- GRT Yercaud in Feb/March. The drive is smooth and turbo lag is a bit overrated, have started in even 2nd gear, while climbing up on a subway I felt the turbolag, otherwise the engine is smooth.

negi · Post by **negi** » 03 Nov 2014 15:21

How do you guys measure FE ? What is shown on the Odo/trip meter or by measuring kms done between successive refuels ?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 03 Nov 2014 15:25

Well tank full to tank full is the best method, the figures I posted is for average Km/l and Km/H are from what the odo/trip meter displays. This is what I would normally use. On long drives probaly I will do the Tank full to Tank full method, the Ecosport has a 52 liter tank, so I will not be filling to maximum very often, right now only filled the 15 liters of Petrol given by the dealer as complimentary coupons in addition to 5 liters they had filled up for registration etc.

Interesting thing is ,noticed the fuel cap says something 10% or 15% Ethonal can be used, never knew that since the Ecoboost engine is not sold in Brazil.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Nov 2014 17:51

52ltr is massive for such a small vehicle. even most sedans max out around 40.
sounds like the rafale of cars - smaller but with those 3 drop tanks and 2 cft can reach beijing from chennai.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 03 Nov 2014 18:17

What's there to do in yercaud btw? Also, windflower as good as templebay? We need a thread for indian vacation spots i think

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Nov 2014 20:58

yercaud - a huge nursery, a lake with boating, a line of viewing points overlooking salem side, a high point above the clouds, a kiliyur falls reached by a very steep ravine(unsuitable for kids or typical indic wives/aeging parents). gets very slippery when it rains. I have also seen the largest jackfruit ever being sold on the roadside there...imagine the size of 10 footballs.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2DfpZXrOmm4

if you want to avoid the crowds of mainstream ooty, its an option albeit ooty has the much better botanical garden and lake. conoor around 15k past ooty also has some lovely viewing points like dolphin nose. there are some very good isolated staying places near ooty like Destiny in avalanche near the emerald dam. great food, view, small treks, rabbits & horses for the kids, a spacious bed and warm blankets if no kids

for some reason many of the hotel managers and staff in ooty and kodai are bengali. even Mithunda owns a couple of hotels and lives in ooty I believe.

kodai lake is also very beautiful, as is the attached bryant park. one can always gawk at the villas of posh people near the lake like I guess our BCCI chieftains

but a horde of day trippers and college student buses descend on the place and choke up the places like pillar rocks in the daytime. people from the baking hot plains of india have a thing for hill stations of any hue.

between ooty and connor there is the cantonment town of wellington. very neat and tight bundobust. the Sim's botany park is near that place.....very nice.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 03 Nov 2014 22:42

None of you otherwise patriotic mullahs buy indian brands?
I bought a Mahindra Quanto..Sometimes need two hands and body weight to close the door.

member_20292 · Post by **member_20292** » 03 Nov 2014 23:34

Singha wrote:52ltr is massive for such a small vehicle. even most sedans max out around 40.
sounds like the rafale of cars - smaller but with those 3 drop tanks and 2 cft can reach beijing from chennai.

that was a cool similie singhaji.

kudos

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Nov 2014 02:16

Aditya_M -> Mahindra quanto was on my list in early 2013 but did not have the cash flow for a new purchase, then came Ecosport. I guess Quanto being just a shaved Xylo did not do it much favour, I guess the S101 which will be released by Mahindra in 2015 will do much better.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 04 Nov 2014 03:18

Aditya_V wrote:Interesting thing is ,noticed the fuel cap says something 10% or 15% Ethonal can be used, never knew that since the Ecoboost engine is not sold in Brazil.

massa has ethanol mixed with gasoline. almost every new car says that these days. except maybe high end premium cars???

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 04 Nov 2014 03:51

India was supposed to have been 5% Ethanol from January 2014, after many earlier deadlines were moved up. AFAIK even now it has not been achieved but maybe eventually...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 04 Nov 2014 07:03

is the door that heavy or the hinges too tight? how are the interior plastics....on the xylo I did not like. even on the ecosport they have that typical american plastic not the better japanese or german style 'rubbery' and 'smoother' plastics.

to be fair I have not see single quanto here. but lots of scorpio and XUV sell in blr...usually people of coorg, kerala and western ghat/nilgiris background have a love of jeepy vehicles. even a few of their eeco EV seen.

I liked the boxy minivan that nissan EVALIA has here. but since I didnt pay anything for this vehicle, no voting rights just observer status. I have a thing for boxy vans as my fathers first car (at age 50) was maruti omni. though he never taught me to drive, I used to sit in our garage when he was not around, turn the lights on and off, play with the gears etc etc. compared to HM ambassador and padmini, the interior switches and controls felt very futuristic and the gear & steering very light and smooth.

negi · Post by **negi** » 04 Nov 2014 11:52

AdityaM wrote:None of you otherwise patriotic mullahs buy indian brands?
I bought a Mahindra Quanto..Sometimes need two hands and body weight to close the door.

Indian brands are expensive for instance I like the tata safari but it is out of my budget and even if I stretched it, the thought of taking that behemoth on ramps in Bangalore malls made me change my decision. Indica has become an official taxi otherwise everyone in India knows that it provides the best legroom in that segment even better than higher prices Polos and Puntos.

Had I not been married I would have bought Mahidra's Thar , it has awesome GC and pretty decent NVH levels when covered. Only issue is absolutely cheap interiors which as per TBHP reviews look like cut using a hacksaw blade.

Best car for Indian market imho is Honda's Jazz but looks like they had a supandi moment and discontinued it to let Polos, i20s and Puntos take that market share.

Honda imho makes best cars to suit the middle/upper middle class in India , they are better built and put together when compared to tatas and Marutis and more reliable than nakharewala germans . City outsells anything in it's segment for this very reason.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Nov 2014 12:00

Negi-> But in increasing sales I feel Honda is compromising on some aspects, like giving proper spec tyres, the 175mm tyres are way too thin and have had issues with my father's city, the doors of the Indian city have also been made lighter for the Kitna deti hai effect.

negi · Post by **negi** » 04 Nov 2014 12:13

^ Yes tyres have been kept narrower for kitna deti hai syndrome only. Having said that once warranty is over you can always swap steel wheels with fancy alloys and some Michelin rubber. The hollowing of doors has started to happen with Germans too , you can check a Polo bought in 2012 vs one being sold today the doors are noticeably lighter on new cars . In absence of safety regulations in India the only way to increase margins is to cut corners.

The new Safari and Scorpios are lighter than their old counterparts for similar reasons. Honda is being forced to skimp on quality because likes of Hyundai are eating into it's market by providing feature loaded cars with similar FE engines.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Nov 2014 12:32

I agree, this overtaxing of cars especially by State Governments where consumers are paying upto 50% of the value of the car as State and Central Indirect Taxes plus Direct Taxes complications for Transfer Pricing(managemnet fees, Royalty) etc means that all manufacturers need to cut corners to price a car reasonably and still be profitable in India.

Meanwhile the Amma cements and Amma waterbottles do an encore. Why is thier no protest in Bengaluru to the absurd levels of tax on new Vehicles and Petrol, Diesel. I dont think the state is giving in return for what it is charging, only the Politico/ Bureaucratic set up is makeing money in this.

Jumping topic, 3M paint protection film is really expensive, thier center tells me they have run out 5 year warranty underbody protection paint, asked them to put atleast the 2 year warranty paint and they want to do some new car treatment which costs 3400 +ST which I see no point in. One can really burn money on a car?? And many TFTA have taken annual maintainence contracts where they pay 13k +ST for just 10 body and interior cleaning treatments a year

The guy who cleans my car charges 300 a month and there is Petrol Bunk near Gemini which charges 500 for a full body wash. Man 3m is daylight robbery.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 04 Nov 2014 12:47

Theo_Fidel wrote:India was supposed to have been 5% Ethanol from January 2014, after many earlier deadlines were moved up. AFAIK even now it has not been achieved but maybe eventually...

The sugar barons raised their price for ethanol sky high and tried blackmail tactics to sell. Thankfully, the attempt fizzled out.

negi · Post by **negi** » 04 Nov 2014 13:28

3M chaps in India are cheats, firstly underbody protection is nonsense , all cars from factory come with multiple layers of paint and then a enamel type coating from factory no workshop can put a layer within 30 minutes which is going to equal or better what comes from factory so it is a gimmick. In our cities where cars get groped in streets and even dented and scratched by other vehicles it makes little sense to spend thousands on polish and quartz treatment ; just a wash and rinse using tap water should be enough. 3M also charges INR 2k+ for vacuuming seats and dashboard .

I would suggest that people take 0 depreciation bumper to bumper insurance for a new car and then wait for first 2 years and replace the scratched/damaged parts together in 2/3rd year that way you keep your car new for longish period .

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Nov 2014 13:42

Negi, except VW no other factory is giving a long term anti rust warranty, I belive their anti rust quoting which is original 3M product is reasonable, it is thier other car clean services etc. which is plain daylight robbery.

negi · Post by **negi** » 04 Nov 2014 13:52

^ The anti rust warranty is no big deal; what it actually means is they replace the entire part(no fixing) or re-paint the entire thing when it gets scratched (basically forces the customer to claim insurance) so no question of rust setting in. If your cars runs over a stone and it scrapes the underbody and later down 2 years gets corroded then this anti rust warranty will not be honoured. All this is hogwash to sell a over priced car to Indians. Any metal part which has been properly painted will never rust before 8-10 years unless the paint layer itself gets scrapped due to a hit which is not covered in any warranty. VW painting costs are 4* the cost of other cars as they use water based paints which are difficult to get in open market.

There are enough 10+ year old Marutis and Hondas with chasis in pretty good condition without such fancy coatings, it all depends on how well one maintains his/her car.

Theo_Fidel · Post by **Theo_Fidel** » 04 Nov 2014 19:27

negi wrote: firstly underbody protection is nonsense ,

Heh! I remember this scene from Fargo where the William Gacey character has a run in with a customer who is sure he is cheating him for charging for underbody protection. Classic scene, everyone should watch if possible.

If the body is protected to normal standards there will be no corrosion in India. In fact due to the no salt regime Cars in India should essential last forever. If it is rusting there are other problems with the production process. Some iron items will show rust. This normal BTW. One advantage of our sub-tropical environment. Take that you dragon overlords….

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 04 Nov 2014 20:00

Marten wrote:Negi, there are instances when the clear coat wrap will help. Some idiot ended up pouring paint + thinner on our car.
The clearcoat is now peeling. With the treatment done, we could have avoided this - neighbour's car with the treatment/wrap suffered no damage at all. Acid rain and other factors like parking overnight under a tree (sac/gum or insects) also affect the paint. The underbody paint helps a lot in Mumbai - we've had a bunch of cars and the only ones that did well were surprisingly the Fiats (not the Padmini, but the Uno and Palio). Every other make, from Tata (sierra/estate) to the Premier Padmini to Maruti (800/Zen/Swift) to Honda (City/Civic) have had some rust issues - all at different levels. A scratch in Mumbai can develop quickly into a horrible scaly patch. And nicks/dents/scratches are quite common. One cannot get the door painted the weekend it got nicked! Therefore, any treatment that retards rust is welcome. 3m's products work to a certain extent - the cleaning ones are simply gouging.

Agree. 3Ms underbody coating and rust free treatment is very good especially for coastal areas. The Vinyl wrap on bumpers, mirrors etc. are also good though costly. The underbody coating (especially the 5 year warranty one is very good in sound damping and stone chirping. All the 3 cars I have own had it.

However, would recommend to stay away from 3M paint treatment. They provide 2 services
a) Paint protection treatment for cars less than 6 months old. A single step wax sealant applied on the paint after claying. This gives an excellent look and water beading but after a months time it is gone. They give one year warranty but that is pure snake oil. While this is not long lasting but at least is not harmful
b) Paint treatment for cars greater than 6 months old - This is bad. 3M and wurths compound & polished used by them for swirl marks are very abrasive than required. A few paint corrections will eat away the clear coat like anything. Have seen it using paint thickness gauge.

If you want protections for new cars, you can clay it and apply a really good quality polish and was/sealant. Megs products are good and there are other good options like Ultima Paint plus (which I have). These last upto 3 months. A top up would be required for another 3 at max. There are two good options in Bangalore (Ultimate detailerz and keystone) and one good one in Chennai (Drive clean) that I would personally recommend. I personally know the detailed clean guy who quit his job in Sony entertainment and took to detailing out of passion. He personally works on every car and spends close to 6 hours at his home garage. Have seen him restore my friends BMW from the mess created by another Chennai detailer.

https://www.facebook.com/driveclean.in
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/chennai/1 ... ennai.html

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 04 Nov 2014 21:56

Sridhar K- Drive clean is in Alandur beyond Kathipara, do you any place within say 7Km radius of Nungambakkam?

Sridhar K · Post by **Sridhar K** » 04 Nov 2014 22:04

Aditya_V wrote:Sridhar K- Drive clean is in Alandur beyond Kathipara, do you any place within say 7Km radius of Nungambakkam?

He is actually based out of Porur. Won't recommend anyone else in Chennai. Privilege cars spa used to be good in Nandhanam but not anymore.

Talk to drive clean. He generally picks up the vehicle and drops back or if you have a garage/parking with water connection at your place, he can do it at your home as well.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Nov 2014 15:08

ford india was selling a engine guard made of a stiff carpety cardboard type relatively soft material earlier. now its no more sold per their website.
is this thing useful in the sense of protecting the engine from stone chips and grit?
some of the early buyers were able to get this product. one tbhp guy had a workshop make a steel plate of the same shape and size and installed that instead.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachmen ... -guard.jpg

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Nov 2014 16:10

Ecosport's GC at least is pretty high it should be safe unless one hits a boulder. On TBHP Polos had at least 3 such incidents of sump getting damaged due to potholes/stones, mostly diesels as their sump sits really low. VW fits sump gaurd for about INR 11-12k in here in Blore (nothing but a 2-3 mm plastic cover screwed to underbody).

negi · Post by **negi** » 05 Nov 2014 16:12

GD it's on ebay

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/GENUINE-FORD ... 1089833112

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Nov 2014 16:19

it was in india as well at one point..infact I played with a sample at the dealer when ordering the vehicle..but as yet no stock arrived.
perhaps they will add it later I hope. atleast more useful than the cosmetic stuff.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Nov 2014 22:14

Singha wrote:ford india was selling a engine guard made of a stiff carpety cardboard type relatively soft material earlier. now its no more sold per their website.
is this thing useful in the sense of protecting the engine from stone chips and grit?
some of the early buyers were able to get this product. one tbhp guy had a workshop make a steel plate of the same shape and size and installed that instead.
http://www.team-bhp.com/forum/attachmen ... -guard.jpg

Engine card made of cardboard comes as Standard for Ecosport Diesel since Diesel engines are vulnerable for stones hitting the Sump and bringing the vehicle to a standstill, there infact and extra premium on Diesel vehicle insurance for covering the Diesel sump. VW is especially vulnerable.

Since, you going for the 1.5P AT, I would say it is unnecessary expense which the dealer accessories dept. will try and sell. Unless you plan taking on Boulder laden streams in a 2WD with no low gear ratios and slipped differentials(good luck with that), I would say it is a waste of money for the Petrols.

Some TDCI owners go for Metal underbody covering available aftermarket for better protection.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Nov 2014 22:57

ok that explains why the dealer has no clue about this part...the one sample they had someone must have taken away with his diesel car.

feeling blue today...a driver from their side and took away my beloved santro at 9.30pm..the two kids and wife took one last ride to the main road and back. the kids were on verge of tears and said how badly the other car would miss its 'sister'. they ran after the departing car to the gate.
from hampi, to ooty, to pondi, to chikmagalur, to nandi hills, belur, halebidu, sravanabelagola,yercaud, yellagiri, avalanche,mysore,madikeri,nagarhole..... the santro went everywhere and covered 68k with zero road breakdowns or major issue of any type. no interior part except the power window switch ever failed....the aftermarket sony cd player crapped out years ago but it was not std kit. I was not at all impressed by my BIL i10 which is supposedly its replacement..perhaps only the i10 grande is more matching.

goodbye soldier. may some good soul buy you next and take good care.

vina · Post by **vina** » 06 Nov 2014 04:53

from hampi, to ooty, to pondi, to chikmagalur, to nandi hills, belur, halebidu, sravanabelagola,yercaud, yellagiri, avalanche,mysore,madikeri,nagarhole..... the santro went everywhere and covered 68k

All this and 68K Kms only ? In how many years ? I have managed to put 220,000 kms in my Lancer (petrol) and again (touch wood) , not a single failure of anything mechanical , never stalled and let me down. Rock solid reliable. Japanese engg. at it's finest.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 06 Nov 2014 06:27

vina mullah dreams of Beemer but drives Lancer, dreams of iPhone but uses Lumia. If you continue in this fashion, your Ivy Liga biz school will disown you and stop you sending sample bottles of aphrodisiac aftershave.