South India River Water Issues/Disputes

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putnanja
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by putnanja »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Meanwhile 21 days after releasing 3,000 cusecs of water from mettur, the water has yet to reach Thiruchi! It is moving at about 3-4 km per day. In the meantime, despite its dams not being full, KA has already started full irrigation withdrawals. This means its dams are unlikely to surplus. The 190 TMC award was drought time award. Yet TN is now caught in a permanent drought. And it is not just TN. In an excellent monsoon year, not a drop of water has yet flowed down the Krishna to AP. Which means argriculture can not start their either, though KA again started full irrigation there too atleast 1 month back. AP too is now caught in a permanent drought. Now there is talk of increasing the kabini irrigation by another 200,000 acres in KA. And raising the almatti dam further.

Where is this going to end....
I don't know where you are getting this wrong information. Please read the link below. Karnataka has already released 24tmc out of 36 tmc that it was supposed to release to TN. This has been accepted at the cauvery monitoring panel too chaired by union water secretary. Please don't spread misinformation. I don't know if you read it in some TN paper trying to spread falsehoods.

Cauvery panel refuses to back TN demand for water
Theo_Fidel

Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Theo_Fidel »

putnanja,

The accord was for minimum flow releases. KA only releases minimum flows now. Even during good monsoon.

Between, Harangi, Gorur, KRS & Kabini, KA has stored up close to 90 TMC of water, It has been drawing roughly 1 TMC a day for irrigation/drinking water for 3 weeks now. And only 24 TMC is given to TN. You can see the result on the river. 24 tmc is not even enough for drinking water unfortunately. Does not even wet the river bed.

Look at krishna river. Tunga & Bhadra dam are full, Almatti filling, Narayanpur almost full, all the canals in KA are fully open for a month now busy irrigating but so far not a drop of water has flowed down to AP.
Theo_Fidel

Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Meanwhile having prematurely filled its dams to the brim, KA is now under danger of floods. This is the nature of water sharing between TN & KA. When the river floods we get water in one massive torrent.....

Complicated emotions. Happy TN is getting water, sad KA is getting flooded. Did not have to be this way.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/k ... 957818.ece

Image
SwamyG
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by SwamyG »

India is doomed.
SaiK
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by SaiK »

A 3*C higher temperature could lead to disasters even on the sides we see floods.. when Earth shakes, rivers can disappear.
Theo_Fidel

Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Theo_Fidel »

This year is particularly annoying. This is no way to manage the water resources of a nation. Godavari right now is surplusing 1,700,000 cusecs of water into the ocean every day! While AP, MH & OD beat each other senseless over the proposed dams on it. Not a single one is under construction! Meantime Krishna delta is in a drought and missed one planting already. Cauvery delta too missed its early crop. Now we have too much water and floods. And all this water is now going to end up in the ocean. The water has to come steadily, floods means the canal networks can not use it and it all ends in the ocean. For the past 2 months KA & MH as well to be fair have been hoarding water in their dams filling them to the brim. This prevents TN & AP from planting crops. Then the water is released in a torrent straight into the ocean. Unfortunately the state politics of the area make this more and more likely....

I have a suggestion, give half the Cauvery Delta to KA and then give half the highlands crop land to TN. That way the two will be forced to come to a common program or they will both starve. Starvation focuses the mind wonderfully.
SaiK
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by SaiK »

scientifically if you have to speak, the dam itself should be split into two for sharing. one side controlled by TN, and the other for KA. KA did not create cauvery water.. it is a natural resource. the dam is the one created by KA, so, from logical considerations, TN should be allowed to build a dam on KA side, for split share and diversion.

again, considering our states are not divided by language and constitution.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by RamaY »

Theoji

I think the issue is majority of water going into sea is from the Godavari delta rains. They are working on Polavaram project nut Orissa doesn't want to give clearance for few sq.km will be submerged in that state.

Add the inter-state river water tribunals and you have perfect case for disaster.

We need a national policy on renewable water resources and how they get used. Satya Saibaba called for nationalization of rivers but with INC type parties, they will not allocate waters for states who do not elect them.

Like you said in another thread, if we can increase the farm productivity and improve farm infra, then we need not have such a vast area under farming. And some of the saved land can be converted into forests.

Anyways, when the national leadership is colonial in mindset we cannot expect efficiency.
Theo_Fidel

Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Theo_Fidel »

So now all the dams are full. Floods have reached Srirangam. Next stop mettur dam which is full and then the ocean. :twisted:
It need not have been this way at all. What a waste.

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/k ... 983237.ece
Image

Meanwhile the Krishna dams are full and the Pothireddy regulator remains stubbornly closed due to politics. So the flood water hits the ocean rather than get diverted to the Nandyal/Cuddapah region. More waste.
Theo_Fidel

Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Theo_Fidel »

So...
Kaveri is now in spate and water is flowing freely into ocean per todays malar. Good job KA/TN.....

Pothireddy regulator in Srisailam remains closed, while Sagar is on the verge of overflow.
Singha
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Singha »

KA Govt will get hammered in agri belt if it appears 'soft' on the water issue .. hence this system of filling piggy bank to the brim before throwing any coin downstairs.
there are always hawks and have-nots wandering around waiting to brand the govt as a sellout if it gives any reasonable concession to neighbouring states.

its a problem all over india, EWNS. if TN were the upper riparian same thing would happen. the nature of state politics has to change from zero-sum games .
Aditya_V
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Aditya_V »

Theo_Fidel wrote:So now all the dams are full. Floods have reached Srirangam. Next stop mettur dam which is full and then the ocean. :twisted:
It need not have been this way at all. What a waste.
Theo Srirangam is in TN 6km from Trichy, that is Srirangapatna, 15km from Mysore.

Although both are Islands in the Kaveri.
SwamyG
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by SwamyG »

In a few years we will have Telangana and Andhra discussions as well in this dhaaga.
Virupaksha
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Virupaksha »

Theo_Fidel wrote:This year is particularly annoying. This is no way to manage the water resources of a nation. Godavari right now is surplusing 1,700,000 cusecs of water into the ocean every day! While AP, MH & OD beat each other senseless over the proposed dams on it. Not a single one is under construction! Meantime Krishna delta is in a drought and missed one planting already. Cauvery delta too missed its early crop. Now we have too much water and floods. And all this water is now going to end up in the ocean. The water has to come steadily, floods means the canal networks can not use it and it all ends in the ocean. For the past 2 months KA & MH as well to be fair have been hoarding water in their dams filling them to the brim. This prevents TN & AP from planting crops. Then the water is released in a torrent straight into the ocean. Unfortunately the state politics of the area make this more and more likely....

I have a suggestion, give half the Cauvery Delta to KA and then give half the highlands crop land to TN. That way the two will be forced to come to a common program or they will both starve. Starvation focuses the mind wonderfully.
All godavari projects except right at delta have to be lift irrigation. AP is building a few, being a electricity deficit state doesnt help. Polavaram which is right before the delta was announced as national project is under construction.
Theo_Fidel

Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Kaveri has so far surplussed 16 TMC of water into the ocean.
Krishna so far 24 TMC.
Karnataka west flowing approx 1,200 TMC
Maharashtra West flowing - 2,360 TMC
Keral - Not sure.
Godavari - 3,182 TMC

Just to put it into perspective, the Godavari surplus alone is approx equal to the entire annual flow of the Indus river basin. And yet in 6 months time, we will be complaining of water shortage once more.


http://newindianexpress.com/states/andh ... 723647.ece
Godavari waters let out into the sea since June 1 was a whopping 3,182 tmcft.
anjan
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by anjan »

SC allows TN to increase Mullaperiyar water level
In a major victory for Tamil Nadu, the Supreme Court on Wednesday declared as unconstitutional the law passed by Kerala in 2006, constituting the Dam Safety Authority to prevent the State from raising the water level in the Mullaperiyar dam from 136 ft to 142 ft.

A five-judge Constitution Bench of Chief Justice R.M. Lodha and Justices H.L. Dattu, C.K. Prasad, Madan B. Lokur and M.Y. Eqbal, allowing the suit filed by TN permanently restrained Kerala from interfering with the rights of Tamil Nadu from raising the water level in the dam from 136 ft to 142 ft.

Justice Lodha, who wrote the judgment, also restrained Kerala from enforcing its law on Tamil Nadu. By enacting the law and fixing the storage height of the dam at 136 ft, Kerala had nullified the 2006 judgment and usurped judicial power and thus interfered with the judicial functioning.
vina
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by vina »

Finally a sane editorial from Al-Hundi - Lessons From Mullaperiyar

What is interesting is what we discussed in BRF. Building an alternate tunnel to relieve any stress on the dam and building additional storage in TN , to prevent 1) TN using Kerala as an overhead storage tank and 2) To address the safety concerns of Kerala.

It seems that the supreme court too recommended that route and chided both sides for their pig headedness in not considering alternatives.
In the Mullaperiyar case, safety, and not appropriation of water, was the issue. The finding that the dam is safe on structural, hydrological and seismic aspects ought to be given the respect that judicial finality deserves. Regretting the rigid and inflexible stand taken by the two parties, the Court has flagged the two alternatives suggested by an Empowered Committee that can be implemented if the two States come to an agreement: a new dam, or a new tunnel at a particular elevation so that some currently unused quantum of water may be evacuated when the dam is under strain. While a new dam may not be feasible in the heart of a wildlife sanctuary, the second option could be considered at some stage in the future so that fears that seem to be widespread in Kerala
Well empowered committee seems to be reading BRF ?? :P :P :P :lol: :lol:
SaiK
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by SaiK »

http://www.nasa.gov/content/goddard/nas ... JIEQyvF-Ag

This is what we have to do for many dried rivers in desh! including the ancient ones that is left without trace.
member_28722
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by member_28722 »

Theo_Fidel wrote:Kaveri has so far surplussed 16 TMC of water into the ocean.
Krishna so far 24 TMC.
Karnataka west flowing approx 1,200 TMC
Maharashtra West flowing - 2,360 TMC
Keral - Not sure.
Godavari - 3,182 TMC

Just to put it into perspective, the Godavari surplus alone is approx equal to the entire annual flow of the Indus river basin. And yet in 6 months time, we will be complaining of water shortage once more.
Godavari is a classic example of water wastage. With better government in AP, MH & Center, one hopes that they come up with good solutions instead of endless bickering and scams.
Rishirishi
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Rishirishi »

Only solution is to hand over the control of all water in the country to a non political comission. The comission should be given total control. Else we can end up in great trouble.
svenkat
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by svenkat »

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/water-released-from-mullaperiyar-chaos-in-downstream-villages/article7961965.ece
The Idukki district administration failed to alert the people in time on the release of water from the Mullaperiyar dam.

There was utter confusion in the downstream villages of Vallakadavu, Vandperiyar, Chappathu, Upputhara, and Ayyappancoil on Monday night as the Idukki district administration failed to alert the people in time on the release of water from the Mullaperiyar dam.

When the water level in the Periyar rose, people came out of their houses at midnight and shouted slogans against the authorities. Though a large number of policemen reached the area for an evacuation drive, the people refused to move to rescue shelters, which had already been in place.

At 5 a.m. on Tuesday the shutters were closed. It took two hours for the water released from Mullaperiyar to reach the downstream Idukki reservoir. Only 58.87 per cent of the total storage of the Idukki dam is filled and there appears to be no chance of opening the Idukki dam even if a large quantity of water is released from Mullaperiyar.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/kerala/state-to-move-sc-against-tn-over-dam-safety/article7964076.ece
Oommen Chandy to seek intervention of Narendra Modi and Uma Bharti.

As heavy rain brought the water level in the Mullaperiyar dam closer to the permissible limit of 142 feet, the Kerala government told the Assembly on Tuesday that it was preparing to move the Supreme Court against Tamil Nadu for the failure to comply with dam safety regulations.

Chief Minister Oommen Chandy told the House that the issue would be taken up with Prime Minister Narendra Modi and Union Minister for Water Resources Uma Bharti later this week. He was intervening during the discussion on the notice for an adjournment motion moved by E.S. Bijimol and others.

Replying to the motion, State Water Resources Minister P.J. Joseph said the government would file a petition in the Supreme Court pointing out that the dam supervisory committee had opened the spillway shutters to release excess water into the Periyar river on Monday night without observing the operational schedule mandating 12-hour prior notice to Kerala.

Drawing attention to the heavy rain lashing the catchment area, he said a torrential downpour like the one experienced by Chennai recently could pose a danger to the 120-year-old dam.

Mr. Chandy said it was unfortunate that Tamil Nadu had adopted an indifferent attitude to Kerala’s request to draw more water from the dam in the light of the rising water level in the reservoir. “Though we had conveyed our anxiety about the safety of the dam, their response was not favourable,” he said.

Study team
“Tamil Nadu not only ignored our plea to draw more water from the reservoir, but also failed to give adequate warning before opening the shutters,” Mr. Chandy said. He assured the House that all possible administrative and legal options would be explored by the State to ensure the safety of the dam. The government, he added, would constitute an international study team to assess the risks posed by the old dam.

Earlier moving the motion, Ms. Bijimol alleged that the government remained helpless and on the defensive as Tamil Nadu continued to flout dam safety regulations.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by svenkat »

'TN throws caution to the winds'
Idukki Collector V. Ratheesa made these remarks while he camped at Kumily on Monday to oversee the situation emerging out of the increasing water level in the dam.

Tamil Nadu seems to have thrown caution to the winds when it opened eight spillway shutters of the Mullaperiyar dam on Monday night, according to Idukki Collector V. Ratheesan.

The Collector, who camped at Kumily on Monday to oversee the situation emerging out of the increasing water level in the dam, had requested the Tamil Nadu Public Works Department to issue an alert 12 hours in advance in case the shutters had to be opened. He had also cautioned the Tamil Nadu authorities against opening the shutters at night.

But at 8 p.m. on Monday, the shutters were opened — eight of them. Following a surge in the water level after heavy rain in the catchment area of the reservoir and in the upstream of the dam, Tamil Nadu could no longer maintain the water level below 142 ft, according to sources in the Kerala State Electricity Board.

Drawing water

Since Sunday night, Tamil Nadu had been drawing more water than the usual 511 cusecs to ensure that the dam level was maintained below the Supreme Court prescribed 142 ft. By Monday morning, it further increased the quantum and started releasing water through the Erachipalam stream.

But the neighbouring State’s Vaigai dam could not hold all the water in view of heavy rain in the upstream of the Vaigai reservoir. Though the water in the Vaigai dam was released in advance to store additional water from Mullaperiyar, once the inflow increased, Tamil Nadu could not hold on. It had only one option then: open the shutters of the Mullaperiyar dam, Mr. Ratheesan said.

Inspection conducted: T.N.

K. Raju reports from Theni:

In response to Idukki Collector V. Ratheesan’s statement that the sudden discharge of water from the Mullaperiyar dam had people panicking in the downstream areas of Vallakadavu and Vandiperiyar, Theni Collector N. Venkatachalam told The Hindu : “We conducted a joint inspection in the areas, including the dam. Tamil Nadu Public Works Department intimated the Idukki administration well in advance about the dam level and also informed the Kerala authorities before the release.”

Water release

At the meeting, Mr. Ratheesan had suggested that the water could be discharged during the day instead of late night.

Mr. Venkatachalam reportedly told him that while efforts would be made to do so, water would have to be released at night if it crossed the permitted level.
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/pwd-scales-down-discharge-into-kerala/article7963321.ece
Tamil Nadu Public Works Department officials on Tuesday scaled down the discharge from Periyar dam into Kerala to 600 cusecs from 3,000 cusecs. Earlier, they downed the shutters and stopped discharge through 13 vents in the morning. With a heavy inflow of 3,381 cusecs, the officials lifted the shutters around forenoon and released 600 cusecs to maintain the level below 142 feet. Water level in the Periyar dam stood at 141.78 feet at 4 p.m. The discharge through Iraichal bridge and four tunnels was 1,913 cusecs.

Meanwhile, Idukki Collector V. Ratheesan and Theni Collector N. Venkatachalam jointly inspected the dam and areas reportedly flooded owing to discharge at Vallakadavu and Vandiperiyar.

During their interaction, Mr. Ratheesan told his counterpart that the sudden discharge of 3,000 cusecs created panic among the people residing in the downstream. Maintaining the dam level at 140 feet would give breathing time for the Idukki district administration to decide further course of action before water release. Tamil Nadu could withdraw the maximum quantum through Iraichal bridge to maintain the water level at 140 feet, he said.

Mr. Venkatachalam replied that the dam level stood at 141.7 feet. Suggestions on further reduction would be conveyed to the government for action, he added.

PWD officials also stated that further increase in withdrawal would flood the Periyar River that already had heavy flow and ultimately affect the low-lying areas.
Javee
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Javee »

^^ Not sure what/where the problem is,
Dec 2: Water level is 139.5 ft. District officials take preliminary measures, setup control center's etc
Dec 4: Water level is 140.12 ft. First warning issued by TN govt.
Dec 7: Water level at 141.1ft. Second warning issues by TN Govt.
Dec 7/8: Water touches 141.8 ft. TN opens up the spillway to release water.

The SOP is to issue second warning when the water level crosses 141 ft and third alert when the water level reaches 142 ft to open the shutters. Idukki Collector claims that TN violated by not giving him 12 hours of prior notice. If TN delayed opening the shutter and waited for 12 hours, the water would've gone beyond the permissible 142ft. All news papers/channels have been covering this and they have been monitoring the levels inch by inch. Kerala wants TN to release water in a controlled manner and both TN and Kerala agrees that the water inflow to the dam soared. Not sure who is at wrong here, I guess both parties are responsible for the mess - TN needs to better understand the level of water to be maintained and Kerala should not wait to move people away until the water starts spilling over the dam.

http://english.manoramaonline.com/news/ ... ssued.html
http://www.dailypioneer.com/nation/pani ... rises.html
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/k ... 963581.ece?
nandakumar
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by nandakumar »

Javee wrote:^^ Not sure what/where the problem is,
Dec 2: Water level is 139.5 ft. District officials take preliminary measures, setup control center's etc
Dec 4: Water level is 140.12 ft. First warning issued by TN govt.
Dec 7: Water level at 141.1ft. Second warning issues by TN Govt.
Dec 7/8: Water touches 141.8 ft. TN opens up the spillway to release water.

The SOP is to issue second warning when the water level crosses 141 ft and third alert when the water level reaches 142 ft to open the shutters. Idukki Collector claims that TN violated by not giving him 12 hours of prior notice. If TN delayed opening the shutter and waited for 12 hours, the water would've gone beyond the permissible 142ft. All news papers/channels have been covering this and they have been monitoring the levels inch by inch. Kerala wants TN to release water in a controlled manner and both TN and Kerala agrees that the water inflow to the dam soared. Not sure who is at wrong here, I guess both parties are responsible for the mess - TN needs to better understand the level of water to be maintained and Kerala should not wait to move people away until the water starts spilling over the dam.

http://english.manoramaonline.com/news/ ... ssued.html
http://www.dailypioneer.com/nation/pani ... rises.html
http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/k ... 963581.ece?
This 12 hour notice is fine in normal circumstances. But there are times when nature takes a course that no human being can control. Just to give you an example. One of the lakes that is a source of drinking water supply to chennai surplused. Water was released at the rate of 35,000 cusecs from the lake to the Adyar river which runs thrugh the Southern Chennai and naturally flooded the city.
Reservoir management theory is that you start releasing as the water releases close to the full reservoir level, a feet or two below the limit. Now here is the story. ToI ran a story to the effect that if they had started releasing the water a couple of feet lower to the full level then there would have been no flooding. Now the science of it is this. When water is gushing in at 35,000 cusecs it takes no more than 5 hours to fill up the lake with1.5 tmcft of water, that is roughly half the storage capacity of that lake.
Same with the periyar dam.
Bade
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Bade »

I am sure someone (hydrologist) can calculate the water collected in the watersheds from the predicted rainfall a few days in advance. When such data is made available some preventive action can be taken by slowly releasing the water even before it reaches the level allowed or normally maintained to avoid a catastrophe following the rains.
nandakumar
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by nandakumar »

Bade wrote:I am sure someone (hydrologist) can calculate the water collected in the watersheds from the predicted rainfall a few days in advance. When such data is made available some preventive action can be taken by slowly releasing the water even before it reaches the level allowed or normally maintained to avoid a catastrophe following the rains.
The whole of chennai city and the three neighbouring districts of Chennai surrounding it, without exception, I mean literally every square inch, received roughly 45 cms of rain in a day (Dec 1st). There was no scope for any early warning based on some calculations from rainfall in the catchment areas for purposes of water release management from the reservoir. A few hours this way or that is about all. The same weather system moved further down South and caused massive rainfall in STN and Kerala which led to Periyar dam surplusing rather rapidly.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Bade »

I believe the rains were predicted for Dec 1 much early. In this instance, there was already heavy rainfall the previous weeks so there was early warning of sorts in any case. To me it still looks like no one had any idea what the total amount that will get channeled on to the reservoir and the entire catchment. It does look like a case of poor planning for water release. This process needs to be reviewed again thoroughly by the authories concerned. The Periyar case a few more days later only proves the point further.
svenkat
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by svenkat »

http://www.firstpost.com/politics/mullaperiyar-issue-kerala-cm-pinarayis-bold-new-stand-is-better-for-ties-with-tn-2805244.html
Speaking to reporters in New Delhi,Pinarayi Vijayan said that the view of the Empowered Committee of the Supreme Court on the safety of the dam cannot be overlooked. And what’s the Committee’s view? That the dam is safe.
In other words, at least obliquely, Pinarayi doesn’t agree with the consensus view Kerala has drummed up over the years that the dam is unsafe. In fact, till about two years ago, the fear of the dam breaching and washing away three million people downstream had gripped the entire state even as the Supreme Court had said that the dam was safe and the level of water can even be raised.
When he spoke his mind, Pinarayi didn’t give credence to the majority sentiment of the state possibly because it was irrational; neither did he stick to the views of other political parties or his own party. He also said, rightfully, that there was no need to whip up passion on the issue and it needed to be settled amicably between the two states concerned. Even if the dam has to be rebuilt, it cannot be done without the consent of Tamil Nadu, he said.
Undoubtedly, Pinarayi’s statement is the sanest political voice on the issue in a long time
.
The dam, built in Kerala 120 years ago to exclusively ameliorate the water scarcity in southern Tamil Nadu, is the latter’s lifeline; but for Malayalis, it’s a permanent pet-peeve, a prick to its sense of sovereignty and a source of fear that has been manufactured and fanned by politicians — mostly from the Syrian Christian dominated Kerala Congress — local chauvinistic groups and a major media house over the last 35 years.
In Tamil Nadu, which has a stronger base of parochial politics, the passions are stronger and people from Kerala are physically targeted even when there’s a faint opposition to its stand on the dam.I dont think this part about physical attacks is true.A stray condemnable incident cannot be blown out of proportion when lakhs of tamils and malayalis live in both states.
Pinarayi’s statement makes a lot of sense because he rightfully echoes the views of the technical experts of the Empowered Committee of the Supreme Court that in 2012 declared the dam safe. The team comprised top experts and it conducted several rounds of tests before certifying its safety. Pinarayi seems to have backed science than political expediency, parochial sentiments and vested interests. There’s no point in fighting a phantom.
The only other person from Kerala who took a similar stand was Justice KT Thomas, a member of the Committee. In an interview to India Today, Justice Thomas, who once was a judge of the supreme court, had said that the dam was strengthened thrice and was stronger than a new one.

It was me who argued for the new dam in the Empowered Committee and got the approval for a new dam in the committee. But our experts have found out that the old dam is far stronger. There has been greater strengthening of the dam done in 1979, 1989 and 1981. But it has not been reported by the media. It was since 1979 when there were fears on the strength of the dam, two points emerged. One was to build a new dam and the other one was to strengthen the dam. Strengthening was the better option, experts suggested. That is how the strengthening happened in three phases. The 2006 Supreme Court verdict was based on these facts,” he said in the interview.
Now with his unpopular view, Pinarayi too has come in for an all-round attack. Except the leaders of his party, everybody else seems to be angry with him. They are unanimous in their opinion that he has compromised on the state’s interests. They find it unacceptable that he is taking a line that is inconsistent with the resolutions passed by the state assemblies during the LDF and the UDF rules. In fact, Pinarayi’s party predecessor in the Chief Minister’s office, VS Achuthanandan was a strong supporter of the anti-dam agitators and had never accepted the Committee’s view. The local unit of the CPI, Pinarayi’s partner in government, also had taken a lead role in the agitations.
Salute to Shri Vijayan on this issue.As some one 'from the pandya land',I have been aghast at the passions whipped up in my 'native' land against the very generous provision of the mullaiperiyaar agreement which has been a boon for the parched lands of the pandyan kingdom which 'we' get at zero cost .The pandya land has no ancient claims on mullaiperiyar unlike the chozha lands rights on Kaveri.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Aditya_V »

Regarding Cauvery Water Dispute, I keep hearing Bengaluru has no other drinking water other than Cauvery. What happens to rainfall in and around Bengaluru, why can't this water be stored in some of 65 lakes around Bengaluru, kept free from pollution and encoarchment and supplied to Bengaluru?

I keep hearing Karnataka's cauvery etc from Karnataka film stars, its as of the whole Karnataka Govt. establishment treats Tamilnadu as the sea and any Cauvery water flowing there is a waste and must be somehow captured from escaping, while lakes in Bengaluru are kept for generating Foam like Vathur Lake.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Lilo »

What i dont understand is how come at the peak season of a above average monsoon, a river water dispute flares up between these two states?

A detailed & worthy writeup on the issue's background...
https://www.quora.com/Can-anyone-write- ... Tamil-Nadu

Now coming to the oft repeated solution of creating local irrigation potential & funding sustainable irrigation practices ....

Does anyone know the amount being spent on freebies in both states?
1) TN takes the cake here - totally useless freebies to buy votes Tv sets,Laptops,grinders,TVS scooties and what not.Can any one contrast the cost of these freebies to the amount spent on funding drip irrigation sytems for the water sucking sugarcane crops of TN?
2)Loan waivers - All major agricultural states of south indulge in this farce - especially congress dominated states.Most recently the congress govt in KN gave a loan waiver to farmers(major portion going to big farmers having congi patronage) in October 2015.

Why is creation of irrigation potential not an electoral issue in these states ?
Maha suffered a long drought and its now doing Jal Yukt Shivir - deepening and widening of streams, construction of cement and earthen stop dams, work on nullahs and digging of farm ponds etc.
Even a crook like YSR knew the pull for irrigation projects in a farming state like AP and made promise of JalaYagnam (construction of major & minor irrigation projects) as a central pillar of his election manifesto.Even today center knows this pulse of farmers & is touting its support to polavaram irrigation project in lieu of special status.

I dont see any clamor for such water storage projects as much as i see for freebies & other useless issues in these states .
Vaigai is parched in the South TN - and folks there are diverted on emotional tamil eelam issues.
North KN is parched and there people are diverted on emotional KN-Maha language issues.All the time their elites make merry in Chennai & Bangalore respectively - diverting water to these over industrialized cities.

Why is there no industrial center worth its name in North KN or in South TN.Why is this regional disparity not an electoral issue.?
Why is there no demand for joining Kaveri to Vaigai and then on to Krishna & Godavari Mahanadi along the eastern coast?
Is it because there is no national party in these states which can raise above each state's chauvinistic insular concerns?

Its high time the emotional people of these states currently making all the noise ask their respective politicians in power what they have done to create water storage potential in the water scarce areas of these states.

Added later:
Also center should bring the states together to roll out a monsoon performance indexed MSP varying geographically as per monsoon performance in say 127 Agro zones of the country.
If an agroclimatic zone is predicted to be raindeficient (by a cutoff date in beginning of the monsoon) reduce the MSP for water sucking crops like rice & sugarcane in that year for that zone & incentivize water conserving crops like pulses or other cashcrops that year in that zone.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Yagnasri »

The principal water supplier to large sections of greater Bangalore now is the C river only. There was a project created and implemented to bring water from the river in 2005, and your humble self-was one of the people to create that finance structure for the project. It is not funded by GoKA but self-financing structure. A large pipe from the river to the city was created to lift water some 1000ft and pump a large distance. The lakes are all gone due to real estate mafia activities. In fact, large constructions are made of the lakes and houses get regularly submerged in rainy season.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by putnanja »

There was below average monsoon in the Cauvery catchment areas. And TN always tries to grow 2-3 crops every year irrespective of shortage, and demands water, while karnataka farmers struggle to grow one crop using irrigated water. TN has showed zero inclination to move away from water intensive crops like paddy. If we don't manage water properly, and don't plan crops according to availability, we will always have this sort of issues between states.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Yagnasri »

I have lived near the river flow areas in TN for a year during which there was a little or no water in the river. I could see rice being cultivated even then. I do not personally know how KA farmers were doing at that time. However, realistically it is not possible for any politico to change cropping habits of the peasants. For example, one can not stop people from having sugar cane in Latur area where there is no water even to drink.

SC has the challenge to the award before it since 2007. It should have created an interim structure in place before the final verdict and should have decided the case finally by now. Only big shot lawyers are making money in the meanwhile.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by putnanja »

SC is busy deciding cases like allowing women entry to temples etc while more pressing cases are given a go by. Looks like even SC selects cases based on viewership rather than importance. Last I read, Nariman, who represents Karnataka in the Cauvery case makes close to Rs 25 lakhs for every appearance to the SC
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by Lilo »

Actually Sugarcane is one of the more easier crops which can be shifted to drip irrigation - with excellent gains in productivity & drastic reduction in water & fertilizer input.
So even if sociopolitical constraints(as in sugarcooperatives in Maha) prevent shift from sugarcane, its water use can be rationalized.
Cane growing by way of drip irrigation leads to 65 per cent saving in water and 45 per cent in electricity, while improving crop productivity by 40 per cent, compared to flow irrigation.
Ex: Jain Irrigation order books are choked with orders this year due to demand for drip irrigation systems.Naturally prices will be unnecessarily high.
Instead of demanding more fertilizer stocks or establishing more liquor bottling plants, the govts of these southern states should get funding to establish plants which manufacture drip irrigation systems.

Paddy however has no other alternative in the shortterm.Its MSP should be rationalized to prevent misuse of scarce water resources as i detailed in water availability based MSP system in my previous post.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by kvraghav »

For people advocating lakes as solution for bangalore water problems, please do take into account the increase in density and population in the last few years. No lakes can support this exponential growth.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by arshyam »

Is RWH mandatory in Bengaluru?
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by arshyam »

kvraghav wrote:For people advocating lakes as solution for bangalore water problems, please do take into account the increase in density and population in the last few years. No lakes can support this exponential growth.
Saar, what do you think Chennai does for water? No Kaveri water luxury there saar, rainfed catchment only, and some help from AP through the Krishna canal. Mandatory RWH has ensured groundwater recharge, which also helps.

There is river called Palar that starts from near Bengaluru and drains into the BoB just south of the city, but it's always dry. Only last year's exponentially high amount of rain caused some water flow. That's pretty much it.

Solutions can be found, where there is a will. As for TN, paddy farmers should expect these issues in the future as well and consider going for alternatives like SRI (system for rice intensification) which does not need standing water for paddy. Same goes for KA farmers too.
Last edited by arshyam on 12 Sep 2016 18:09, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by rkirankr »

arshyam wrote:Is RWH mandatory in Bengaluru?
yes all sites measuring 30X40 sqft and above
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Re: South India River Water Issues/Disputes

Post by arshyam »

^^ What about existing properties? Are they required to retro fit?
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