Indian Education System

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 31 Mar 2015 00:23

Continuing on with the toy model of IIT/NIT research univ with a faculty strength of 200, one can expect at least 1 PhD student per faculty at a minimum. So UG program has 1000 strength in student numbers, and PhD at least 200. Since residence time of PhD is 5 yrs say, there needs to be a pipeline of students with overlaps across each generation of 5 yr life cycle per student. It get tricky, if you are a PhD factory, with one PhD graduating every year per Professor, you will need to have a strength of 1000 PhD students at any given time per institute, or 5 students on average per Prof. Now UG strength == PG strength and we declare a true research univ even better than massa ones

like the current PRC factories giving out PhD degrees and also flooding the US job market at Univs for faculty jobs.

Where is the money for all this going to come from ? Each PhD student needs to be paid say $10,000 to $20,000 per year, to keep him from applying abroad to Harvard. So faculty has to dole out $50,000 to 100,000 to pay for student salaries every year out of grant money. So his grant money tap has to be much greater than $100k per year and flowing to pay for lab equipment and to top-off his/her salary with a bonus of $50k over the base of $50k. Do research proposals in India have that kind of outlays in engg at least ? In the sciences numbers I have seen doled out by DAE/DST is like 1 crore for multiple (2-3) years at top level.

Even raising 1-2 crore from DST seems like an uphill task. So the model fails without raising research spending by factor of 3 at a minimum from current levels, to keep students in India for an active research profile and pay faculty handsomely as reward for increasing their research output.

Or you can tweak the model a little more and worsen the student teacher ratio for UG from 5:1 to 10:1, a factor of 2 admit 2000 students, increase you tuition income to $20 million and use the extra $10 million to cross-subsidize your PG/PhD program partially. Win win for all, and use TAs aka PhDs to fill the gap in student:Teacher ratio

like Uncle Sam Univ does !

The Indian taxpayer still pays for all the fixed infra costs for UG education and gets the glory of having top-100 rank institutes in the country.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 31 Mar 2015 01:32

http://web.mit.edu/facts/enrollment.html

Enrollment for UG : PG : PhD

Engg 2447 : 1028 : 2115
Sciences 784 : 10 : 1147

The sciences numbers tells you the entire story, why MIT is where it is compared to our Univ/Institutes. Even in engg UG to PhD enrollment is comparable, and if include MS then it tilts more in favor of research.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 31 Mar 2015 03:35

Rahul M wrote:
Graduating from a Government College in India is ridiculously cheap and Post-graduation even more so.
My college fee was Rs. 42000/year or ~$350/semester in 2010 and was just Rs. 28000/year a year before when it was affiliated to DU (a central university).
For M.Tech/ME students, government has increased stipend to Rs.12,400/month. So the education is basically free.
my UG fees was Rs 110/- p.m. during pg the guvmint paid me a few thousand rupees p.m.
both were in pure science.
I still say to moi parents that they incurred net negative expenditure for my higher education.

I am no TFTA engineering undergraduate and my annual fee for Bachelors (all inclusive) used to be Rs.1200/- and it used to get covered by NTSE scholarship. So pitashree didn't have to spend a dime on tuition after I (barely) got out of class 12th.

Lucky to have gotten into a college at all considering one phamilee phraand took one look at my CBSE class 12 board exam marks and biously told me that not everybody has talent to go to college and I would be better off joining some vocational training institute, learn typing and get a peon job in sarkar to bring home some money. Bugger probably had no idea how effing hard it is to land a sarkari peon job - way harder than getting AIR 100 in EyeEyeTea JEE I bet given the upside earning potential.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Mar 2015 07:07

I did not get to sit for NTSE because my school, in all its wisdom felt only the top 5 or thereabouts in class should be allowed to sit for it.
although I used to fall in that category earlier, by class VIII I was convinced of the futility of rote learning in order to secure a top-five 'rank' and was more interested in kicking footballs.

so, no ntse for me.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 31 Mar 2015 07:12

I had not heard of NTSE till I attended kaalij in Cal and heard one of the chaps had a scholarship. No one in my family knew of such dark secrets either.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Mar 2015 07:21

even now awareness is quite low. f.e I came to know of things like KVPY when in PG.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 31 Mar 2015 07:24

The trouble with bonuses for faculty is that if I were one, I would drop everything else and go after the bonus full-time. And the yaks would be "getting practical experience" all the time sweeping the floors at the Consultancy places. This is what happens in guvrmand hospital where daaktar cannot be found because s(he) is running between 5 different outside "consultancies". This is one reason why yoo ess univs keep yak-herders chained to the oars in the galleys, to mix metaphors. All sorts of "conflict of interest" threats. Behind it all is the firm policy to discourage any 'consultancy' that brings $$ to yak-herder OUTSIDE the contracts system that brings Overhead Baksheesh to the university.

In desh, I hear DeeARDeeYoo beebals complaining that while they may find brophejars who can write brobojals, they cannot find enough ones that can be trusted to have any intention of DOING what is proposed. This is also a flaw in Yoo Ess system: once the $$ are in, other than filling out the Deliverables Reports on time, nothing much is expected - unless of course the yak-herder has some ambition of going back the same sponsor and getting new projects. This system is the tough thing to setup, with bloody-minded yet humane 'research Technical Monitors' etc. You have to hire some gems to run these places, or they will be utter disasters.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 31 Mar 2015 07:32

rahul_m, It all depends on how pro-active parents are and also aware of the opportunities to some extent. The current generation of kids in family are getting better guidance even from their 10th std fail parents and are into professional courses at good colleges in the state rather than wile away their time in general 420 activities. There is no need for self discovery like for some of us decades back by random luck.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 31 Mar 2015 07:40

In sciences, since there is no money to be made via consultancy, at least for most disciplines unless one veers out a lot from the mainstream ideas of science

we have to be good at delivering the promises. Hardware built, papers published, show thesis progress etc as the gods with money bags are one and only one god, ie DOE/NSF for the fundamental of physics disciplines. You get reviewed every year and asked quite embarrassing questions and funding can be curtailed if progress is not shown.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 31 Mar 2015 07:43

rahul_m, It all depends on how pro-active parents are and also aware of the opportunities to some extent. The current generation of kids in family are getting better guidance even from their 10th std fail parents and are into professional courses at good colleges in the state rather than wile away their time in general 420 activities. There is no need for self discovery like for some of us decades back by random luck.

very true. at least there is no dearth of motivation among parents but what to do when they themselves are not aware ?
given the state of public awareness I do not blame them.
all these scholarships publish a newspaper ad once a year, how can you realistically expect people to become aware through that ? often I am asked by people to advice them about a science career. I see this all the time.
especially true for students beyond the digital divide.

negi · Post by **negi** » 31 Mar 2015 08:52

I agree on awareness part I did not know about the JEE until my 12th std , however I did make it to the final 1000 under KVPY scheme but hindu baniya in me used 4yr>3yr logic and chose to stick to Engg. instead and decision was easy because I had 2 scholarships so even my pocket money was paid for. No one told me that IISC is not just any other gobmint science college .

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 31 Mar 2015 09:35

All knowing eCONomist uvacha

More and more money is being spent on higher education. Too little is known about whether it is worth it

Melwyn · Post by **Melwyn** » 01 Apr 2015 04:14

UGC a failure, must be scrapped: HRD panel

NEW DELHI: One of the first committee set up by HRD minister Smriti Z Irani to review the working of the University Grants Commission has said that the regulator not only has "failed to fulfill its mandate but also has not been able to deal with emerging diverse complexities."

Headed by former UGC chairperson Hari Gautam, the committee has said any "reshaping or restructuring" of UGC "will be a futile" exercise and so will be amending the UGC Act. Therefore, it has recommended setting up of National Higher Education Authority through an act of Parliament. It has also prepared a draft of the bill but said that till the time such a body is set up, HRD ministry can bring about many changes through executive order.

For instance, it has suggested a national research aptitude test for admission to Ph.D and doing away with 10 years as professor criteria to become vice-chancellors. It has also emphasized teaching of yoga and transcendental meditation. Ministry sources said, "Recommendations are far-reaching and will be looked into seriously."

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 764087.cms

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 01 Apr 2015 07:10

I didn't know that statistic about EmEyeTea UG number being so low. Huge number of PeeEchDees. How long does each take to escape I wonder...

This explains why their class sizes are small and they get ranked so high on faculty:student ratio. I bet those faculty are usually on travel and the classes are actually taught by flunkies. Students that I have see from MIT in grad school (most probably not the sharpest of MIT BS grads) were disasters. All mouth and no work. So they too have the problem that they graduate a lot of cra* along with stellar grads.

member_26011 · Post by **member_26011** » 01 Apr 2015 07:49

The real fun at MIT is the army of post-docs coming and going through the revolving door, if I recall correctly. The SB kids were a mixed bag. Those who reach dept. at rank 10 or under, say, in Grad school after tend to be the bottom of the pool. The few who go all the way, SB-SM-PhD/ScD-PostDoc-Fac @ MIT, seem to be amazing both in and out of uniform. The grads who enter MIT from wherever typically are also excellent, and I knew only two who dropped out, one jumped, sadly, another had problems. In my memory, panic set in year 5 from SB. I knew no one who stayed past 6 (but I don't have the stats). The faculty-student ratio is rather high, but I did not know anyone who asked someone else to teach their lectures except very occasionally. I think it would be fair to say that teaching, at least it was, met very very enthusiastically. It was a fine place indeed and fond memories.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 01 Apr 2015 10:23

UlanBatori wrote:Students that I have see from MIT in grad school (most probably not the sharpest of MIT BS grads) were disasters. All mouth and no work. So they too have the problem that they graduate a lot of cra* along with stellar grads.

Same problem with Stanford and especially CMU. Its not actually a problem but just a result of skewed perception. People think if someone is a graduate of a top university they must be really smart. Why people? Even companies like Google still practice that to some extent. The reality is that if someone is of low intelligence to begin with, getting in and out of a top school doesn't magically transform them from a donkey to a horse. But they start thinking they have become a horse and hence, all mouth and no work.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 06 Apr 2015 17:43

Let me give a small illustration re: Alumni Association. Came in the email from some IITM alumnus who apparently had seen my

here.

Mind u, I am all admiration for the people who do this, but look at todin's date and look at the timing of the "request".

AN URGENT APPEAL SEEKING YOUR SUPPORT AND CONTRIBUTION TO WILLKOMMEN 2015
On Behalf Of: "IITMAA' secretaryiitmaa@yahoo.co.uk' April 6, 2015

(oh, YES!!! It is VERY impressive that the Secretary of the Alum** association uses an email address at yahoo.com.uk, not an iitc.ac.in address! Shows PRIDE in the institution, hain?)

Dear Alumnus / na, (just LOVE that personalized gender-specific address already - it's as tres chic as Dear Mr/Mrs/Other), ne c'est pas? Shows how careful they are to look at recipient's naam b4 hitting 'send'- powerful demonstration of IITM software excellence!)

Greetings from IITMAA.

We are pleased to inform you that the IIT Madras Alumni Association will be conducting its Annual Graduands Dinner, “Willkommen 2015” on Monday the 13th April 2015 from 5:00 p.m onwards. About 1500 students graduating this year are to be welcomed by the Association and it has been a tradition that the senior batches also join us in welcoming them.

On behalf of Executive Committee of IITMAA we hereby take this opportunity to cordially invite you along with your family to join us on this happy occasion for the get-together followed by dinner. The entertainment for the evening will include standup comedy by “Pundits”, a performance by “Rain Burn” a progressive Rock Band with alumni members, the student Institute Band and our student choreo team.

While the estimated cost for "Willkommen 2015" is over Rs.4 lakhs we have received a contribution of only 1 lakh from the 1989 batch. We therefore seek your support to makeup the short fall of Rs.3 lakhs to put up a great show for the benefit of the young alumni.

We therefore appeal to all our alumni to contribute towards making this event a memorable one for the passing out batch of 2015. Individual or corporate contributions are welcome and the same can be sent to the address given below in the form of cheques /DDs. No contribution is too small and all contribution is welcome. For any further clarifications regarding sponsorship kindly contact:

X.Y. Zzzz Zzzzzzzzzzzzz
General Manager
IIT Madras Alumni Association
Room # 109, Office of Hostel Management, Hostel Zone
IIT Madras, Chennai - 600 036
Tel:044- 2-257 8391
Mob: 91 - 99624 58652
Email:alumni@iitm.ac.in
generalmanager@iitmaa.org
Website: http://www.iitmaa.org
Remember the Alumni Association is for the benefit of alumni and all our programs including the current Willkommen 2015 to welcome the young alumni has its focus on alumni.
Do help us serve the alumni better.
Warm regards,
Abcd Efgh
Secretary,
IIT Madras Alumni Association.

Dunia-beating Taap Instityooshun onlee.

And what the heck is a "Wilkommen"? As opposed to "WontGoen"? The pseudogiri is so impressive, as much as such IITMA traditions as "Mardi Gras" (modeled not on any religious holiday but on the drunken drugfest orgy in mugger-filled downtown New Orleans, LA).

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 09 Apr 2015 07:30

^^^ That is a 400% valid address onlee from madrassah alumni aphice, only a select few get personal invites to donate.

So why crib, even if the request comes at the last minute. I am sure yak herders are easy to dig out from the public sphere. It must have been the work of one of your potential yaks, who did not get into the club in Mangalia.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 09 Apr 2015 19:27

AFAIK, the event is naat being organized in Bilayat. It eej wherever the "c" or "m" in IITM/C is located, hain? Why not get a legit e-pata address? Too poor or too whatever else?
Also, I am merely conveying what an alum wanted to do, in a spirit of pure 450% altruism:

Do help us serve the alumni better.

I would suggest with deep humility that it is time for the IITs to come out of their "v r modeled on phoren onlee" mode and emphasize the first "i" a bit more, hain?
SOMETHING has to have improved from 1950s to 2015.

To quote my co-yak-herder:

I hated the drug-doused 'Mardi Gras' hippe farce when I was an ishtudant, I hated all the pseudos referring to each other by cute faux-Wodehouse/Drones Club names and references and I hate all these snooty pseudo-Colonial/pseudo Oiropean/pseudo American-Ghetto / hippie-culture event designations. And I think any competent organization would send out (a) a calender of events (b) reminders WELL in advance of events. This is like 'v don't vaant you coming hiyar, just send $$ because v know u r stupid.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 09 Apr 2015 21:20

The alumni assoc has a database with contact info which people do not update. I was looking at our batch's info and hardly 5% had provided their contact details, this despite friends goading them to do it and point to their website. How much handholding can the institute do. Then there is the privacy of information, which is why people are reluctant to share their current whereabouts. When our batch had a silver reunion, yes we are that old, some of us came across the information fo this event by accident. People living in Madras or from Madras itself had no clue either, a few even visit the campus on work related matters still. So it remains an SDRE problem of organizing stuff.

There is no Mardi Gras now it is Saraang since 2000 !

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 09 Apr 2015 22:45

For comparison, when the guvrmand middle school/high school in Southern Mangolia aka Mallosstan decided to form an Old Yaks Association, they set up an fb page and publicized that fact. One ancient yak went there and simply typed in the Attendance Roll Call from his herd, from memory. This got other yak's attention and they came in and basically found everyone.

Can't imagine why it is so mushkil for EyeEyeTea Alum Association to something like that, EXCEPT that they don't give a pakistan about ppl outside of their chennai coterie or EyeBeeEm coterie. The ones with all the WodeshousePseudo names. I am sure news of everything is passed around very swiftly among those.

So my point is that if IIT wants to come across as a modern, semi-professional outfit, they need to wrench things like the Alumni Association out of the hands of the Loyola College Drones Club and put in someone who can at least come across as semi-competent:

1. Get an IITx.ac.in email. Can't be that hard?
2. Hire a ~~secretary~~ Administrative Assistant who can type, search FaceBook, read a calendar etc.
3. Update the email list and position/affiliation list - if LinkedIn can do it, why not IITx?
4. Get a Director who is professional and MEANS what they claim about

The Alumni Association Eej 4 Every Yak

5. Put up a website with up-2-date annual calendar, effective contacts etc.
6. Get over the Cuteness.
7. Set up Long Term Strategic Plan, show some linkage to the Administration and Faculty, show some awareness of something outside their insider circles to have credibility.

Do u sense some resentment about the Inside Circles? Wonder why? This bijnex about

V r having only 5 barjant e-mail onlee

has a very simple explanation: They lose the damn 'database' every year or 2. Tried many times...

Because they don't give a pakistan.

Glad to hear that Mardi Gras got renamed. Progress. News travels slowly to Outer Mangolia.

Incidentally, the particular e-pata came to my correjbondent not direct from EyeEyeTeaX but from the local EyeEyeTea alum association in Ulan Bator who had got some email from the Main Alum Association in yahoo.UK which may have got it from....

So what stops them from getting the mailing lists of the local organizations worldwide? It's not such a big number, maybe 1000 per year, and many from the 1950s are probably dead, hain?

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 09 Apr 2015 22:55

You raise valid points. I am not active with local chapters of the assoc...as I am a JEE outcaste...but that is another level of discrimination not to be talked up in public forums. Lot of the alumni money has come from non-JEE folks only largely...even some of the big initiatives like the golden jubilee fund (Krish@Infy) who was a MSc physics or shq of Deshpande also MSc physics. But the BTechs make the most noise, are more vocal and having spent their teens there will feel more ownership perhaps.

You must have seen this before. Get ready for the golden reunions, which I am sure are harder to engage people as they will be hitting their 70's by then. The first batch's Golden reunion overlapped with us...
http://www.iitmaana.org/

The Alumni assoc has a ac.in address, and I can vouch for having received e-mails from that address.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Apr 2015 23:27

So my point is that if IIT wants to come across as a modern, semi-professional outfit, they need to wrench things like the Alumni Association out of the hands of the Loyola College Drones Club and put in someone who can at least come across as semi-competent:

1. Get an IITx.ac.in email. Can't be that hard?
2. Hire a secretary Administrative Assistant who can type, search FaceBook, read a calendar etc.
3. Update the email list and position/affiliation list - if LinkedIn can do it, why not IITx?
4. Get a Director who is professional and MEANS what they claim about
Quote:
The Alumni Association Eej 4 Every Yak

5. Put up a website with up-2-date annual calendar, effective contacts etc.
6. Get over the Cuteness.
7. Set up Long Term Strategic Plan, show some linkage to the Administration and Faculty, show some awareness of something outside their insider circles to have credibility.

Have to confess that I have no idea about your "point".. but a few facts may be be helpful..
1. I do have IITx....alum email.. have it for quite some time. (BTW ..I graduated 40+ years ago, so they must have good records and proactivity to setup and informed me of my iitkalumni.org email address)
2. They are very professional in those items. Certainly can type etc.. They have group(s) (very active and useful) in linkedIn/facebook etc ...I have even got telephone calls from students (from India) for our continuing support..
3. Yes, email list is quite good, I regularly get emails and things of interest...as good as any best schools anywhere else..(I am still in contact with a huge percentage of people in my batch and faculty)
4. I think that they do.
5. Website is quite nice.. even including current calendars erc
6. They have, may be you should too.. all this silly "yak-talk" is not cute..just silly.

So professor, what's your point?

(PS.. I will let you have last word)

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 11 Apr 2015 23:40

UlanBatori wrote:Let me give a small illustration re: Alumni Association. Came in the email from ..]

Let me also give a small illustration, this also came as an email some time ago:

xxxxxx@iitkalumni.org
Dear ...

I am happy to inform you that now you can use a new e-mail address that works like Gmail and proudly announces that you are an alumnus of the world-class institute -- IIT Kanpur.

Alumni Association worked with Google so that username@iitkalumni.org is recognized as a valid Gmail address. Here are instructions to login to your new Gmail address like username@iitkalumni.org
....

Login is as follows:

Reset your Password after you login the first time.

Let me know your experience both good and bad at email webadmin@iitkalumni.org

Best Regards

President, xxxxxx
.....@iitkalumni.org

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 12 Apr 2015 07:54

Exemplary! Superlative! I am floored! Is that AWESOME or what!
Perhaps other IIT alumni associations could learn from IITK. One of 25 IITs learning to set up an email account is surely an impressive statistic, when only a few thousands of alumni are in the IT industry worldwide!! Congratulations to IITK alumni on this momentuous achievement.

Almost as good as this other superlative institution

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 12 Apr 2015 17:39

^^^ Very cute debate. I was educated in a cemetry (under the control of the archeological society, space shared with monkeys) and lived in an underground horse stables. And that is the better part.

You can complain.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 12 Apr 2015 20:38

Shreeman wrote:^^^ Very cute debate. I was educated in a cemetry (under the control of the archeological society, space shared with monkeys) and lived in an underground horse stables. And that is the better part.

You can complain.

Super description.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 13 Apr 2015 19:37

As usual, BBC focuses on what is best in India

Proof that Biharis at least can think on their feet. I was trying to imagine some of the Star Yaks from our herds being out there as Outside Consultants, figuring out answers to questions.

Meanwhile, in Advanced European Civilization

Nigalidze's resume includes victories in the 2013 and 2014 Georgian Chess Championships. It's not clear how many times he went to the bathroom during those matches.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 16 Apr 2015 10:03

Note about Ph.D etc., but about the basics.
School gets notice for failing class one student
A top Indian Certificate of Secondary Education (ICSE) school has come under the scanner after the Education Department issued a notice following a complaint from a parent alleging that it had denied promotion to a class one student.
...
School Principal Jerry George Mathew refused to state that the child was “detained”. He said that based on an assessment of his performance throughout the year, the child was not ready for the next class. He said that the parent and school would arrive at a “mutual understanding” and claimed that the school is out of the ambit of the RTE Act, as it is a minority institute.

The MHRD rules (click) clearly prohibits any student getting detained when they are in Class I to Class VII. And the order explicitly states that this rule is applicable to Minority run institutions as well, as this provision is not connected with the minorities right to "establish and administer" educational institutions.

My understanding is that the Central Rules regarding RTE, would supersede the state specific rules if any. Then looks like this minority institution is clearly violating the law. I do a get a feeling that if minority communities are given a free-run on their educational institution, with no other legislation being applicable to them it would for sure lead to long term problems. Such institutions can set a very favourable play ground for students from their own community, work in such a way that students of their religion gets into favourable positions etc., and ensure that only such students get a good learning experience. The majority community students would have to face subtle discriminations (like detentions etc.), or have to survive on the other government managed institutions which is plagued by other issues as well.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 19 Apr 2015 08:05

The MHRD rules (click) clearly prohibits any student getting detained when they are in Class I to Class VII.

Where were these pinkos when I was in Class 0 to 7, hain?

Would have made for so much more joy in school!

Wonder if the problem here is whether the parents were not 'ready' with the baksheesh for Class II?

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 19 Apr 2015 08:13

No, it is the rule now. One cannot detain students for under performance in Primary and Middle School.

Most Christian Missionary schools have reasonable fee structure.

Saral · Post by **Saral** » 19 Apr 2015 22:06

There are dedicated folks who have made a difference. Here is one such Professor service + teaching + research.

Prof. Ravinder David Koilpillai received his B.Tech. degree in Electrical Engineering from IIT Madras in 1984. He then received Masters and Doctoral degrees from California Institute of Technology in 1985 and 1990 respectively. Upon completion, he worked in the Wireless Communications Group of GE (R&D) for the next 4 years. Prior to his current position as Professor of Electrical Engineering at IITM, he was with Ericsson USA for twelve years. In 2000, he became the Director of the Ericsson’s Advanced Technologies and Research Department at Research Triangle Park, North Carolina. In this role, he was responsible for an R&D team of 75 engineers developing GPRS/EDGE handset technology.

Prof.David’s technical areas of expertise include cellular and broadband wireless systems, and DSP techniques for wireless communications. He has been an active researcher in the areas of wireless communications and DSP. A primary driver for Prof. David has been giving back to the society, and as an academic a large part of this has been through teaching. He has handled a wide range of UG and PG courses, both core and electives. He handles large classes/common courses like EE1100 and ID1100 with ease and students admire his lectures. In short, he is a very passionate and organised teacher. His course feedback statistics compiled over the years are clear evidence of the high regard and esteem that his students have for him. His extremely positive attitude towards the subject and towards students is very instrumental in motivating students. He has done an excellent job of counselling students as the Head of Guidance and Counselling Unit. All this shows up in his involvement from an early stage in the IIT Madras Satellite Project in which he has been nurturing a passionate team of 80 students over the last 3 years. During 2008-09, as the Co-Chair of the special Task Force, he provided the required hand-holding for the early batches of students and faculty of IIT Hyderabad.

Prof.David is a strong believer in practical research with collaboration between Academia and Industry. He was responsible for launching “Broadband Wireless Consortium of India”, while he was at CEWiT. He also helped drive Broadband wireless standards in the country. He has published more than 70 papers in journals and conferences and has 32 U.S., 10 Canadian, and 19 WIPO/ European Patents. Prof.David is admired as a meticulous person by his colleagues. He puts his heart and soul into all his Institute level responsibilities. His contributions in streamlining the function of the Central Electronics Centre as its Head and as Vice Chairman of the Computer Centre are noteworthy. He has been serving as Dean (Planning) from September 2011, and has been instrumental in managing the Institute’s finance, physical and electronic infrastructure.

Prof. David Koilpillai is an excellent role-model as a teacher, Professor, research supervisor, and administrator. The Institute is proud to confer upon him the “Srimathi Marti Annapurna Gurunath Award for Excellence in Teaching” for his demonstrated proficiency and innovativeness in teaching.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 05 May 2015 07:27

Though JEE type tests might be passe in US,they do matter a lot(unhappy reality) in India,and this news is important for it is evidence of the social mobility thats happening in Indian society and JEEs are no longer the preserve of urban middle classes as they were in 70s,80s.

http://www.newscrunch.in/2015/05/india-media-forgets-to-mention-this.html

Ashish Gawai, the IIT-JEE Mains topper of 2015, is a Dalit and Indian media does not find it newsworthy.

In the JEE Mains results declared on April 28, Ashish Gawai scored 346 - 120 in Maths, 111 in Physics and 115 in Chemistry - and came the first rank in the Common Merit List.

NewsCrunch came across many profiles of him in print and not one mentioned his status as Dalit - perhaps the first person from the community to accomplish the feat.

Many Indian publications try to look progressive, when it comes encouraging select weaker sections. The gender of women toppers is duly noted. The place of origin of small-town achievers is highlighted.

While profiling Ashish Gawai's, Mumbai Mirror noted that a small-town teen had come first without the aid of any coaching classes. The detailed profile skipped to mention he was a Dalit, a proud one at that.

Ashish Gawai, a student of Shahu Junior college, Gawai spent 11 hours every day preparing for the exam. He drew inspiration from two persons: One, his father, who teaches Mathematics and English at a zilla parishad school in Buldhana. Two, Dr B R Ambedkar, whose photo he keeps in his room, perhaps to remember the complexity of life's challenges before him.

Though he did not go for coaching classes, he knew how to utilise online resources and guide books. He solved question papers of the past years and says that helped a lot.

He wants to join Computer Science engineering course at IIT-Bombay and later become an IAS officer.

Bade · Post by **Bade** » 07 May 2015 22:44

Earthquake engineering: Building a ‘quake resilient’ nation

According to Vasant Matsagar, associate professor, department of civil engineering, Indian Institute of Technology (IIT) Delhi, “Geology, seismology, geotechnical engineering, and earthquake engineering are treated differently; wherein, the experts respectively are geologists, seismologists, geotechnical engineers, and earthquake engineers. There is a wide scope in India as well as abroad for students who study and conduct research in these areas. There are, however, varying degrees of opportunities available in government organisations, multinational companies, educational institutes, research organisations, and corporates.”

In India, the IITs, Indian Institute of Science and National Institutes of Technology, and other engineering colleges train students in earthquake engineering. “Several research projects in the area of earthquake engineering have been completed which were funded mostly by the government departments such as Department of Science and Technology (DST). The technical contributions made in the form of patents, research articles published by the faculty members, researchers, and students in the area of earthquake engineering enormously contribute in advancement of the knowledge and its dissemination within stakeholders.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 09 May 2015 14:33

The default system in the US is 4 courses per semester. It is only by getting externally-funded research projects that one can claim to teach less. Or by becoming an administrator.
New entrants are (these days, not so much in the past) given a lighter load for the first year or two, but only so that they have some chance of getting external $$. Nobody focuses on anything unless there is motivation - generally of the Archimedian kind.
Ultimately, teaching is a lot "lighter" in "load" than research. Once one has a dog-eared set of notes and a pool of questions to keep repeating, the best 'Teaching' is considered to be just transferring those notes to a board and giving the same questions every year.
Professor is so KNOWLEDGEABLE: seemed to know the notes by heart onlee!
Professor is so ORGANIZED: Lectures were perfectly timed to end on the bell onlee!
Professor's teaching is so CLEAR: like s(he) has explained the same things to other yaks many times. Also, does not teach anything that was not taught last year, and the year b4 that and the years b4 that.
Professor's homework was so CLEAR: Exactly followed Worked Examples. Did not cause any need for yak-brains to be exercised.
Professor's tests were HARD but FAIR: Same as b4, same as Worked Examples, same as Homework.

The great thing about IITs was that whether the teaching was good or biss-boor (and v had both kinds) people learned to learn, usually without being able to afford textbooks. Fortunately there WERE some good teachers - the ones who were curious and worked very hard on research.

Arjun · Post by **Arjun** » 09 May 2015 18:50

svenkat wrote:Though JEE type tests might be passe in US,they do matter a lot(unhappy reality) in India,and this news is important for it is evidence of the social mobility thats happening in Indian society and JEEs are no longer the preserve of urban middle classes as they were in 70s,80s.

http://www.newscrunch.in/2015/05/india-media-forgets-to-mention-this.html

Unfortunately, looks like the report was not correct: http://www.embibe.com/100marks/News/ash ... -11-marks/

Actual topper is a Sankalp Gaur. In any case, this is only the qualifying exam results - since the JEE is now split into two parts.

Shreeman · Post by **Shreeman** » 10 May 2015 11:16

UlanBatori wrote:The default system in the US is 4 courses per semester. It is only by getting externally-funded research projects that one can claim to teach less. Or by becoming an administrator.
New entrants are (these days, not so much in the past) given a lighter load for the first year or two, but only so that they have some chance of getting external $$. Nobody focuses on anything unless there is motivation - generally of the Archimedian kind.
Ultimately, teaching is a lot "lighter" in "load" than research. Once one has a dog-eared set of notes and a pool of questions to keep repeating, the best 'Teaching' is considered to be just transferring those notes to a board and giving the same questions every year.
Professor is so KNOWLEDGEABLE: seemed to know the notes by heart onlee!
Professor is so ORGANIZED: Lectures were perfectly timed to end on the bell onlee!
Professor's teaching is so CLEAR: like s(he) has explained the same things to other yaks many times. Also, does not teach anything that was not taught last year, and the year b4 that and the years b4 that.
Professor's homework was so CLEAR: Exactly followed Worked Examples. Did not cause any need for yak-brains to be exercised.
Professor's tests were HARD but FAIR: Same as b4, same as Worked Examples, same as Homework.

The great thing about IITs was that whether the teaching was good or biss-boor (and v had both kinds) people learned to learn, usually without being able to afford textbooks. Fortunately there WERE some good teachers - the ones who were curious and worked very hard on research.

Mullah,

Bresjume you are talking not just of ulaan bator but also in jeneral. Kindlee allow me to add some moar details and dissenting opinions.

1. If we are talking graduate school, then this requirement of 4 courses soon expires after candidature guidelines set for the holy degree are met. They are met soon enough, most places want no longer than 2 years, 3 at most.
2. If we are talking undergraduate, course load is usually higher. Upto 6 courses.

Now on the brofessor side. It depends from yak herder to yak herder(no one taught 4 classes where I have been, and that is many places):

1. those teaching graduate classes have tiny class sizes (10 or less students, advisors have informal pacts on whose courses respective students will attend, to keep the gag going)
2. No one teaches more than one course, graduate or under graduate.
3. Undergraduate courses, which bring bulk of the tution dollars, even masters /400 level classes are taught by lecturers, part timers, adjuncts.
4. It gets so bad that even if someone was to offer a good class for free, the professors will make sure their students who might benefit do not get to attend, just to keep informal arrangements going.
5. Quality of graduate classes is nearly uniformly bad.
6. Undergraduate classes still have some structure left because they are taught by individuals who often must get good eValuations from students to be called back or to get the same class.
7. Many key classes necessary for a degree in the field go untaught because no one around feels qualified enough to teach it!

Then your repetition applies. If you do not repeat, students will chicken out like rats leaving a sinking ship.

This is true in the east/north-east, the middle, and the south-west. Not sure if ulaan bator has escaped it.

Both "teaching" and "research" are light load, just meet with your program manager often. Actually doing something or learning is totally not required. By the way, them IITs have followed the model too. There arent just dozens of them, even the old/better ones are now no better than a southern illinois carbondale. Being full of tenure rejects will do that.

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 13 May 2015 06:49

From Dheeraj Sanghi's blog - The quality of faculty

http://dsanghi.blogspot.in/2015/05/the- ... culty.html

I have been to numerous selection committees, and I am quite aware of the quality of faculty selection in our tier 2 institutions. As soon as you go beyond IITs, BITS, IIITH, IIITD, and a handful of other institutions, invariably the selection committee meeting ends with the Director making a request to the committee to recommend at least one candidate, any one who was marginally better than the others, so that the next semester's courses can be taught. In any of these committees, I always look at my role as providing my honest views about the candidate, and making sure that there are no biased selections. I don't look at my role as quality control (beyond giving my honest feedback). The primary stake holder in that hiring is the institute and not me, and hence they have to do quality control and not me. So, invariably, I will agree to recommend that one candidate, who could not speak a word about his thesis that he had just submitted, and who could not answer simple questions about the course that he had recently taught, and yet in my opinion, was the best amongst all those who were interviewed. Participating in such committee meetings can be very depressing as they expose this myth about India being the largest producer of scientific manpower. These candidates can hardly be called "scientific manpower" and yet they represent the best that our scientific manpower production factories have produced. What are we doing to our next generation, forcing them to study from these types of faculty members. And this is one reason why I always ask people to seriously consider studying abroad, if they can afford it.

A few weeks ago, I was in a selection committee to recruit faculty for a new institution. The new institution (which shall remain nameless) has this agenda of excellence that they would not want to recruit just about anyone. So they had shortlisted a set of people whose CVs looked pretty good, better than the most candidates that I have met in tier two institutions. Most of them were existing faculty members in our Tier II institutes, which included IIITs, NITs, IIMs, and a few select state colleges and universities with excellent reputation. (IIMs are certainly Tier 1 institutions, but only when it comes to management related programs.) If you were to select faculty purely on the basis of their CV and pedigree, it would be extremely tough to take a call. And I was really excited about a new place being able to attract such CVs.

All the candidates were told to bring in prints of a few papers of theirs, preferably those papers which were recent and in which they had a significant contribution. One member of the committee had a very sound strategy for the interview. He would ask the candidate which paper is the strongest work. He would then ask a simple question about something in that paper, and the result was often hilarious (actually, very sad, given that these represented the second tier of institutions in the country).

The hottest area of research amongst those was "optimization." Can you explain what is a generic problem of optimization (not in your specific context). Sorry, I don't understand the question. OK, you have this equation in your paper. Can you give us an insight into this equation. Sorry, no. I just copied this equation from Matlab help files. Do you think it is ok to copy from Matlab help files without understanding. What's wrong, everyone does it. But then this appears to be a central equation in your paper. Why are you using this one and not anything else. I don't remember. But this is your recent paper, with you as the first author. I am the first author, because I am the supervisor. How do you avoid convergence to a local maxima, and guarantee that you will find the global maxima. I don't understand the question. Do you know what a local maxima is. Yes, the points that are close to global maxima. Thank you very much, you can leave now.

There were a few senior professors as well amongst the candidates. There was a faculty member who said that he is very strong in Operating Systems. When we asked to narrow down the area further, he said memory management. OK. Why do we need virtual memory. Virtual memory is needed to allow a program of larger size than the physical memory of the computer. Really. But it means that if the physical memory in a computer is larger than the addressable memory, then we don't need virtual memory. Yes, we don't need virtual memory. If we can somehow enforce that all programs will be smaller than the RAM in the computer, we don't need virtual memory. Yes, we don't need virtual memory in such a situation. How would you ensure that two programs who are using the same address space will not conflict with each other's memory. Sir, I have been teaching OS every year for the last 20 years. My students have got jobs in top CS companies, and you are telling me that I have been teaching wrongly all these years. Yes, my dear professor, you have been teaching wrongly for all these 20 years.

I suspected this, but did not want to believe this. In the last 20 years, I would have asked this question on virtual memory to at least 100 potential MTech/PhD students, and till date, NOT EVEN ONE (other than those who have studied at an IIT) has answered it correctly. The sequence of exchange that I had with this senior professor of operating systems in one of the good institutes of the country, was exactly the same I have had with students from such colleges. And yet, I always believed that they were taught correctly, but they didn't pay attention. Or they are learning from poor quality text=books. I could not believe that they learnt wrongly because their professors did not know.

I can go on and on, but the summary is that most of these faculty members with great CVs did not know even the basics of what they were teaching, or what they were doing research in. They did not know that copying content from elsewhere was plagiarism. They did not know that they should understand what they write in a paper. It was almost as if the papers were generated with some automatic paper generating software.

And what is worst is that when we investigated further with these faculty members who all had substantial number of journal papers, it turned out that many of those papers were in paid journals with no peer review. And yet, they would defend the practice by saying that everyone else did it too.

Since most of these faculty members were young and recent PhDs from similar institutes (IIITs, NITs, and good state colleges), it also puts a question mark on the kind of PhDs being produced in the country.

And yet in a country where the quality is determined primarily by the amount of money their graduates can get in the market, these institutions are rated very high by the society. So there is no hope of any improvement either. If they are all doing very well, where is the pressure to change. The only positive of these institutions is that they have successfully created a culture of self-learning (necessity is the mother of invention), which will ensure that their alumni keep learning on their own throughout their careers.

But is this enough for the "Make in India" to succeed. Are we really on our way to harness our demographic dividend.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 14 May 2015 05:59

The above happens to be on target. But take heart! The Besht oph the Wesht is trying hard to emulate Indian ishtandards onlee, not the other way round.

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 14 May 2015 07:08

There were a few senior professors as well amongst the candidates. There was a faculty member who said that he is very strong in Operating Systems. When we asked to narrow down the area further, he said memory management. OK. Why do we need virtual memory. Virtual memory is needed to allow a program of larger size than the physical memory of the computer. Really. But it means that if the physical memory in a computer is larger than the addressable memory, then we don't need virtual memory. Yes, we don't need virtual memory. If we can somehow enforce that all programs will be smaller than the RAM in the computer, we don't need virtual memory. Yes, we don't need virtual memory in such a situation. How would you ensure that two programs who are using the same address space will not conflict with each other's memory. Sir, I have been teaching OS every year for the last 20 years. My students have got jobs in top CS companies, and you are telling me that I have been teaching wrongly all these years. Yes, my dear professor, you have been teaching wrongly for all these 20 years.

are things really as bad as described ? I mean this question about virtual memory is actually general knowledge stuff even school kids are bound to know...I truly hope the west tries real hard to emulate Indian standards...