Indian Education System

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csaurabh
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by csaurabh »

UlanBatori wrote:The above happens to be on target. But take heart! The Besht oph the Wesht is trying hard to emulate Indian ishtandards onlee, not the other way round.
Dun know about that. But here is what happens in T2 colleges and lower ( based on second hand accounts I have heard )

Teacher doesn't know anything. They just mugged it.
Teacher can't teach even if he does know anything.
Assignments are copied from internet.
'Local books' are followed. These pieces of crap just lay out some formulas and some examples which just substitute in the formula.
Exam questions are all directly from solved examples in the books, sometimes even without changing the values.
'Farzi' ( fake ) papers are published in farzi journals to increase publications.
In spite of that, some people struggle against all odds, learn stuff from internet and make some projects of their own.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by csaurabh »

But then I am not enamoured with the IIT model either. It has its own problems: mainly, too much theory, not enough application, and they have swallowed the 'international research agenda' rather than trying to solve regional problems or connected with Indian industry.

T2 and lower colleges try to copy the IITs with less intelligent people. Result is disastrous.

This note from Milind Sohani of CTARA, IITB explains why the IIT model is bankrupt.

(please download and read in full )
http://www.cse.iitb.ac.in/~sohoni/RD.pdf
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by gakakkad »

in short the only feasible solution is closing down bottom 70% colleges and importing decent faculty from outside and getting visiting faculty from private enterprise...
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by csaurabh »

gakakkad wrote:in short the only feasible solution is closing down bottom 70% colleges and importing decent faculty from outside and getting visiting faculty from private enterprise...
Good luck trying to do that!

In the meantime my advise to ppl studying in T2 colleges or below: Ignore anything 'academic' ( other than mugging something before the exam ). Learn from the internet ( MOOCs ), conferences, workshops, look at the outside world and figure out where you want to be any why. The burden of education is solely on you, because the teachers are useless.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by csaurabh »

gakakkad wrote:in short the only feasible solution is closing down bottom 70% colleges and importing decent faculty from outside and getting visiting faculty from private enterprise...
Good luck trying to do that!

In the meantime my advise to ppl studying in T2 colleges or below: Ignore anything 'academic' ( other than mugging something before the exam ). Learn from the internet ( MOOCs ), conferences, workshops, look at the outside world and figure out where you want to be any why. The burden of education is solely on you, because the teachers are useless.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by gakakkad »

csaurabh , I think the message needs to be spread to a wider audience as rapidly as it possibly can...I think the teachers themselves would do well to go through the MOOCs...

IMHO , one of the biggest waste of times and distractions from actual learning is Indian exams... because Indian examiners have their love for short-notes ..

In medicine where syllabus is huge , people unfortunately cram stupid guidebooks all year round from which they can write short notes easily , understanding not a damn thing..Unfortunately the smartest people who actually take pains of understanding stuff and spending extra hours in the lab or wards get mediocre marks because don't "write ""good"" shortnotes"

there are a lot of resources and lectures available in most of STEM ... They were available even 7-8 years ago when I was an under grad...

Other thing is the practical aspects... MOOC would cover the gap in computer science or theoretical math to a large extent ...but in other engineering disciplines and bio-medical disciplines it would be enough only for getting a basic conceptual grasp...

what can be done about practical aspects? you could code for a CFD model in fortran...but can you actually build anything without a genuine lab? because many "kaalijs" actually run aerospace engineering these day , without having any damn infra structure..

for med schools this situation is somewhat better as it is impossible to open a school without hospitals that have some minimal requirements...even the lousiest private college has to have em in spite of having bribed MCI inspectors...but unfortunately the theoretical grounding is often so poor that people end up being more like technicians doing thing mechanically ...as per some examiners you ll be shocked by the fact that people appearing for their post residency exams demonstrate inability to understand basic physiology or even biological principles...

other worrying aspect is sham journals and conferences...the publications in these journals are ridiculous .... In medicine it has become a big business and some of these lousy journals even end up being PUBmed listed...these exist because MCI now requires a certain number of papers at all stages ranging from residency to professorship...

the thing is that the core is so rotten that I don't think anything can be done for decades...
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by csaurabh »

gakakkad wrote: Other thing is the practical aspects... MOOC would cover the gap in computer science or theoretical math to a large extent ...but in other engineering disciplines and bio-medical disciplines it would be enough only for getting a basic conceptual grasp...

what can be done about practical aspects? you could code for a CFD model in fortran...but can you actually build anything without a genuine lab? because many "kaalijs" actually run aerospace engineering these day , without having any damn infra structure..
But the "teachers" don't know any practical either, so the comparison is a moot point. With MOOCs/other online stuff you can get videos of people doing the practical, as well as animation/simulation/etc. ( which can also be done with some software like Matlab ). What practical infrastructure do you get in T2 college anyway. Interested people build their own kit with off the shelf jugaad.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by csaurabh »

Reasons why phd sucks in India ( engineering perspective )..

First, this business of doing 'world class' blah blah rather than anything relevant for us. Second, poor facilities and pathetic guides. And finally, the students themselves are wretched, like bottom of the class who didn't get MNC/PSU/IT jobs or go abroad. So you have no world class students nor world class facilities nor an atmosphere for doing anything, so where is this world class research going to come from?

It still works to some extent in IITs and a handful of other places. As soon as you go beyond that, it breaks down completely.. farzi journals, farzi papers , all round misery. And what do these wretches end up as? Assistant professor, lecturer..

My friend attended a 'conference' in Nirma University ( Gujarat ) recently.. The paper was stupid . Questions asked by the audience were stupid . Answers given were equally stupid. All round display of stupidity..
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Bade »

Doctoral Training Centre in Computational Biology
http://dtcbitsgoa.github.io/

For those interested..got in the mail.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by prahaar »

csaurabh wrote:Reasons why phd sucks in India ( engineering perspective )..

First, this business of doing 'world class' blah blah rather than anything relevant for us. Second, poor facilities and pathetic guides. And finally, the students themselves are wretched, like bottom of the class who didn't get MNC/PSU/IT jobs or go abroad. So you have no world class students nor world class facilities nor an atmosphere for doing anything, so where is this world class research going to come from?

It still works to some extent in IITs and a handful of other places. As soon as you go beyond that, it breaks down completely.. farzi journals, farzi papers , all round misery. And what do these wretches end up as? Assistant professor, lecturer..

My friend attended a 'conference' in Nirma University ( Gujarat ) recently.. The paper was stupid . Questions asked by the audience were stupid . Answers given were equally stupid. All round display of stupidity..
Currently I had a similar experience with a long running ACM conference, renowned for acceptance rates of 20%! Supposedly it is a good one, running more than 25 years. After attending this conference, I should say, I was disappointed. The presentations were so-so, but Q&A was the worse part. When I asked a Professor from Brazil, a basic question about his proposed system ( do you use RTP or HTTP transport), he said, he does not know! "Such low level details were implemented by his graduate student". The paper was about managing delays. How does someone present a system where they do not know such basic information. The funniest part was the main problem stated in the beginning of the paper was not addressed in the paper! No results/guesses/nothing - this gives an idea about the quality of peer review process.
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Re: Indian Education System

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Re: Indian Education System

Post by UlanBatori »

India has discovered the Internashunal Conpherenj scam. And Praise Be to ATM for that! Just need to schedule in nice locations - like Shimla? Darjeeling? None of these "sunny beach" deals for me, thank u, we have all the sun we can tolerate in the Mongolian summer. I want to see the Himalayas in luxury, paid by someone else. Nooooo high-rise hotels in Indian metros, PLEASE! Especially, no Dilli or Kolkotta.

As for "research papers", apparently, going and reading a MatLab Toolbox Manual and writing a description of that, constitutes a "research paper". Who cares? When there is a grand buffet lunch followed by a BharatNatyam Performance?
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by SriKumar »

prahaar wrote:Currently I had a similar experience with a long running ACM conference,.... .....The funniest part was the main problem stated in the beginning of the paper was not addressed in the paper! No results/guesses/nothing - this gives an idea about the quality of peer review process.
I am guessing that the problem was framed when the abstract was submitted, with full expectation of good results in time for the conference...and the results were unexpected (or bad). So changes had to be made..... :)
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Shreeman »

Anyone care to comment on the IIPM, MS university whatever? Need to get some understanding of what happens to the students unfortunate enough to go through that mill.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Shreeman »

UlanBatori wrote:India has discovered the Internashunal Conpherenj scam. And Praise Be to ATM for that! Just need to schedule in nice locations - like Shimla? Darjeeling? None of these "sunny beach" deals for me, thank u, we have all the sun we can tolerate in the Mongolian summer. I want to see the Himalayas in luxury, paid by someone else. Nooooo high-rise hotels in Indian metros, PLEASE! Especially, no Dilli or Kolkotta.

As for "research papers", apparently, going and reading a MatLab Toolbox Manual and writing a description of that, constitutes a "research paper". Who cares? When there is a grand buffet lunch followed by a BharatNatyam Performance?
You are late waking up again. That alarm sounded years ago. The shimla train is long gone -- and the conferenses happen on the mangolian side too. What about Las Vegas ? Throw away career and money at the same time, and get hitched quickly if you like. Organised by the same people.

Now you can get on the patent train or the open access publicashun train. The patent BPO/KPO is becoming a regular scheduled and packed frequency train. The open akkexx express is already difficult to get on.

edit -- forgot the "preprint" multi-decker buses which have tricked many as well.

edit 20%? I spit at your poor choices, sir. Good day, And face away. 20k+ attendees, 3-5% rates. 1k+ attendees in even more selective setting. Workshops abound for rejected articles. Organisers are bigger frauds than participants.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Sachin »

Shreeman wrote:Anyone care to comment on the IIPM, MS university whatever? Need to get some understanding of what happens to the students unfortunate enough to go through that mill.
Arindam Chaudhary was out of the radar for nearly one year and a half. But last week, I saw a full page Ad on him and IIPM. IIPM had run into lots of controversy mainly because they had lots of false claims, and their "degree" was not recognized at all.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Shreeman »

^^ The degree is NOT recognized. I doubt the supreme court (wasnt it?) decision gets overturned.

The issue is what happens to the students (a few batches, I understand, starting 2011ish) who are left with no diplomas except for IIPM printed toilet paper (IIPM had a belgian accreditation nonsense, bakis arent original in anything).

It would appear one of the many corrupt universities (an MS university) still will prpvide a "degree" to IIPM students if they travel to wherever it is supposed to be and deposit a relatively large sum in gratitude.

What is even worse is what these so-called graduates have learnt in their "we provide laptop" years. Most seem to be no better than being able to handle BPO duties AFTER training by your local neighborhood call center company. And for this, parents have paid through the nose.

Now if your father ran a mattress showroom, then you took the IIPM diploma to a further poodlistan "university" and came back phoren returned and then acquired low or mid level manager pojishuns from this.

But most students seem to be just wandering aimlessly. I acquired these anecdotes accidentally and felt helpless in advising any future course.

Anyone with insights into any future for these 4 years worth of youths or for the insitution intself may kindlee further comment.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by gakakkad »

^ Which MS university might that be ? there is an ms university in baroda..but it is a legitimate government university with alumni like sam pitroda , Nobel laureate venkat raman and vishal sikka (though sikka left mid way)...
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by gakakkad »

as far as there future of iipm wallas is concerned , it is not bright...only thing they can do is apply for a legitimate undergrad or graduate degree based on whatever valid education they have acquired in there life...they were stupid to fall for the scam in first place...so they certainly won't be the brightest bulbs around...
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Shreeman »

Guggal says it is some "M S University, Tirunelveli".

IIPM stuck around for 40? years. Brightest bulbs or not (and I agree about the light being dim), Indians arent the first to question authority, especially sith glossy brochures, physical branches in every city, and copious support from the politicians. Has anyone been arrested for the scam? Buildings siezed?

And the mess continues even today. IIPM does still have a website, does still recruit. The Indian parent is as responsible, wanting desperately to get their kids into these "donation" colleges. They arent any better than IIPM. A few thousand kids across 4 years and length and breadth of india? They cant be left high and dry without a few sad stories in the making.

I can bet it wont be long before the bakis do an equal equal for a few Axacts in India, just so they arent the onlee ones being laughed at.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by SaiK »

every chaddiwala knows what is precisely wrong with their chaddi and their brilliant paper works.
but every chaddiwala knows not how to correct them unless told a path to correction.
if the chaddiwala is told about the path, he will argue you down that it does not solve certain other paths.
the problem lies in some deep quarters and not just chaddi alone
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by csaurabh »

Feeling disillusioned with the IIT system lately.. Btech students simply don't care for science or engineering or any kind of learning any more. They are just interested in jobs and 'packages'. Those that do care inevitably go abroad because 'yahan par scope nahi hai'. In another of India's ironies, the 'best' education is squandered on those who neither want it nor can make use of it.

Postgraduate students on the other hand are much more down to earth types and go into core industry ( and are perfectly capable engineers ). But the graduate program still kind of sucks because often it is not relevant and gets stuck in 'papers'.

Then I read this article by Milind Sohoni and he seems to put his finger on the problem exactly.. Worth reading in full.
http://www.cse.iitb.ac.in/~sohoni/RD.pdf
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by SaiK »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 463535.cms

IIT-Madras bans student group for criticising PM Modi, his policies

IIT's decision to ban their activities was based on an anonymous complaint by right-wing groups and that they were denied a hearing.
good that the racist periyar gangs are banned! sheesh!
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by gakakkad »

SaiK wrote:
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 463535.cms

IIT-Madras bans student group for criticising PM Modi, his policies

IIT's decision to ban their activities was based on an anonymous complaint by right-wing groups and that they were denied a hearing.
good that the racist periyar gangs are banned! sheesh!

toilet is bull sh1tting...the group was not banned for anti-Modism but dalitistaani seperatist group bashing "brahmainism"

Image
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Vriksh »

x-post from China thread via Amit
http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... start=3120
with original reference
http://vijaysvision.blogspot.in/2012/06 ... re-in.html
In contrast, most agricultural research centres in China must use Central government funding purely for research. Funds relating to salaries and other administrative incidentals must be covered by funds generated by the centres themselves. The centres and their scientists are thus encouraged to engage in joint ventures with private sector companies to form commercial spin-offs from their research.
In contrast Indian Agricultural Universities are only using 3% of budget for research and the rest is consumed in salaries with very little outcome for the general public. If Agricultural Universities/Institutes in China are reasonably self sufficient with the model above, it is a fair assessment that other institutes of learning are also generating some funds through such PPP models. It may provide a template for IITs and other Indian institutes to focus on research and generate staff salaries via industrial collaboration. This will help them to stand on their own feet by interacting with Industry and solving problems relevant for India first and then the world at large.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Bade »

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/postin ... &p=1852309
chaanakya wrote:
Why do our Engineering institutions are not able to produce "Goal Oriented Engineers" but produce only "Financially Oriented Engineers"?

In reply Ranjan Rao wrote:
Let me take a shot at it in English and Gurus like Ulanbatori ji can add tonnes of gold to it. Mods pardon being OT
1.Placement system in most colleges: Everyone goes to these colleges to get placed first, and placed with highest possible salary and not to illuminate and enlighten themselves with fundamentals of Radars, signals, and strength of materials. Tech companies(proper ones and not like the TCS infy) have such high entry barriers due to limited opportunities and stiff competition. At the end of day everyone wants to be rich and rich quickly. As Deng Xiaoping said "To be rich is to be glorious". The news farticles about IIM salaries and the society(parents, aunts and uncles comparing with Sharmaji's son) doesn't let the job of such people easy. Sometimes I feel that we need a bit of propaganda or campaign to glorify these boffin jobs.

2. Lack of adequate faculty, facilities and partially students: Most of the faculty is keen to get the job done by teaching those that come in class. Attendance standards are not rising or staying the same either. Unlike a decade back when I was in college, kids can now access the finest in world through net but then that's not in Indian context. People like Feynmann inspired a generation of people in physics for doing fundamental research. Most of the faculty is PHD with little or no industry experience. A fair chunk still does projects and engages students keen on MS/PHD aspirant students. But what kids are or were not shown is that technical careers can too be a way to get rich. I visit my college (not the Eye Eye Chai ones but still a respectable name in hastinapur) once or twice every two years and talk to random students. Most of them seem to be disillusioned with technology/technical careers and think that MBA is their nirvana. Jobs like DRDO, HAL etc are for people who want a stable non corporate life, those who want to prepare for MBA over there or those who have specific advantage over Aam Admi in selection(if you know what I mean). This might be my specific experience so others can prove me wrong and I will be happiest person on earth. On my recent visit to campus I found things mostly same, although some people wanted to go into start ups and willing to take risks. I also see some of my batch mates too hiring or grooming these kids for start ups as well. So not all gloom and doom but then the critical mass for a chain reaction is still at least half a decade away when people think beyond E-comm and getting a jobs in start ups to create their own start ups. Anyways in such high stakes games fizzle is more likely then sizzle.

3. Practicals being just another way to boost your CGPA: Right from schools practicals were just another way of boosting your grades(anybody remember taking Sanskrit in Xth board CBSE). If marks are given based upon your (theory marks, CP and beauty) then what else can the system churn. Designing simplest electronic circuit on paper is one thing and implementing it in real hardware is another thing, and I am just talking about a circuit, think about a complex system involving PLC/microcontrollers and then think about real hard stuff like engines which would require ultra expensive set up to even test(how much computers can help etc). Doing practicals exposes people to what is achievable given constraints of available (resistors/capacitors) or failures (burnt/exploding PCBs because of putting a device in opposite direction) and where things wont work.

There can be 100s of other reasons as well but then probably it's high time that we focus on what needs to be done right and not what's wrong and probably revisit the lines that "we will do it not because it is easy, but it's the right thing to do"
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by UlanBatori »

All 3 of your observations are correct, but I wouldn't touch anyone who claims that they sit up late nights and climb through mountains of math and physics just to get "enlightenment". They have to be people who can't think straight, and are likely to strap on soosai vests one day. Or drop everything claiming "disillusionment" and head for the forest or sit under a tree.

Why the *** should those who do the work to top their classes throughout high school and college make 1/40th the pay of the dimbulbs who spent their evenings lounging? Money is an appropriate system of reward, the other stuff is bonus as I see it.

India is no longer a Poor Country - it has as many rich people as any country, and I mean RICH. Indian companies can afford to pay salaries, and they do pay with no regard to competence. Baboon (plural of Bahoo) such as the Chairman of IndusIndiots Bank get INR37million per year. That's right - 370 LAKHS. How many Indian engineers get paid INR 12 Lakhs per year?

And to do what? Read the Customer posts on the fB page of IndusIndiot Bank, and I agree with those from personal experience.

So the net is that India is still stuck in the Third World/African dictatorship mentality of treating engineers and scientists as dirt while enriching the goons. And there is Karma in operation here: A good whacking in a war that reduces the Palaces to rubble, MIGHT awaken the oiseules to the need to start being fair. Without hiking pay scales to world class (not the other way round which is what is happening: India is dragging down engineer pay worldwide) India cannot advance: until then, Indians will keep having to pay through the nose to buy glitzy gizmos made (often by the sweat and brains of Indians) in other countries. Nothing wrong there.. it is quite fair in the scheme of things. And this is evident in the LCA - I posted a few experiences of what it is like from visitor's pov at places that should be absolute Dream Jobs, such as ADA and DRDO and GTRE. Time to wake up to realities.

Start paying competitive salaries, and the best will come, and create an environment of excellence. It is ludicrous to see the faculty situation in India. Recently I heard a Mohterma Accountant from Dilli giving advice to an engineering PHD/MBA in the Yoo Ess, comparing university faculty careers to bijnej careers:
Yes, Americans only respect money. So there is no point in doing technology, you should just go into business.
Typical Indian arrogance coupled with abysmal ignorance. :) Of course she had travelled to the Yoo Ess with a group of all Corruption-funded Baboos and their Real Estate co-crooks and tax dodgers.

In India teachers and university faculty are treated like dirt too, never mind the mouthings of "Guru" worship which is only for RollsRoyce Swamis and AK-47 Mullahs and B747 WhiteShoes Evangelists.

In countries that care about technological advancement, not just copying, technology people are not necessarily all billionaires, but I would say that the average engineer with 15 years experience is already well in the middle/upper middle class without cheating on real estate or taxes or marrying rich. Which means a decent life with the possibility of getting much further ahead. And enough sense to realize that the huge spires of wealth come with unacceptable prices in Life. So they settle down and focus on doing what they love.

In India, engineers were middle class - up until maybe 1970? Then corruption became the norm. Today the Productive Classes have been buried under the Indian Muddle Class - almost entirely enriched by bribes, crooked land deals, and dowry. Look at the structure of tax revenue in India - it is a real eye-opener. You understand why the IT form STILL asks:
Do you own Race-Horses?
and devotes a whole schedule to it.

The other aspect of the Indian system is the Retirement Age of 55. Super for the individual, it ensures some form of security for the rest of one's life, with nice Defined-Benefits and COLAs, so that one can then take out the ill-gotten bribe money and black money from hiding (no need to show Source of Income), get another job in private enterprise, and enjoy life. But what is the cost to the National system? An education to equip an engineer to deal with leading-edge problems takes up to Age 26 minimum, starting at Age 2? So.. 24 years of education, mostly paid by the taxpayer, to get 21 years of work, of which the first 2 are training, the last 3 are Coasting, and the remaining 16 are.. remembering the first 2, getting married, having dozens of babies and washing their little behinds, and waiting for the last 3.

Most of the really tough advances take 30 years of intense, persistent effort. Look at the names of the IEEE Medal winners, the National Academy of Engineering etc. A few political appointees, some who got in by sleeping with the old geezers, but mostly old geezers. With top-of-the-species brains, and enough experience and confidence to go after the really big breakthroughs. Youthful Energy and Drive are all great to make FaceBook, but Allah help the kuffars who depend on the Youthful to do the really tough advances in technology. (Even Google, if you look hard, grew on the strength of Database technology learned from the old geezers who grew up as young IBM and HP engineers in the 1960s - the Search engines are the dreams of those people, implemented by the wunderkinden who make the news with their SFO-JFK trips to buy shoes).
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by SriKumar »

UlanBatori wrote: So the net is that India is still stuck in the Third World/African dictatorship mentality of treating engineers and scientists as dirt while enriching the goons. And there is Karma in operation here: A good whacking in a war that reduces the Palaces to rubble, MIGHT awaken the oiseules to the need to start being fair. Without hiking pay scales to world class (not the other way round which is what is happening: India is dragging down engineer pay worldwide) India cannot advance: until then, Indians will keep having to pay through the nose to buy glitzy gizmos made (often by the sweat and brains of Indians) in other countries. Nothing wrong there.. it is quite fair in the scheme of things. And this is evident in the LCA - I posted a few experiences of what it is like from visitor's pov at places that should be absolute Dream Jobs, such as ADA and DRDO and GTRE. Time to wake up to realities.

Start paying competitive salaries, and the best will come, and create an environment of excellence. It is ludicrous to see the faculty situation in India. Recently I heard a Mohterma Accountant from Dilli giving advice to an engineering PHD/MBA in the Yoo Ess, comparing university faculty careers to bijnej careers:
Couple of interesting points above....certainly war focuses the perspective of a society (and the minds of its citizens) in a manner like no other way can. If a society has a draft (meaning, anyone can be asked to go and fight), or if the country at large has faced a war (i.e. not restricted to the established border but faced in the heartland), the perspective is different and tolerance to bureaucractic bs, delays for 'good' reasons is much lower. In a war, there is an unambiguous personal cost one pays for neglecting or delaying the important stuff. The other point is pay/salary does matter. Its been discussed ad nauseum in these very pages as to how pay 'would/should not matter' to people 'truly interested in doing research', or to those who 'truly love their work/field' . The ground reality has indicated otherwise, and I agree that the degree of reward matters. As one poster (ages ago) pointed out, even if salary does not matter to him personally, it would matter in what he can give to his kids (i.e. education, resources,) and that starts to affect one's perspective. Back to yak herding....now where did my yaks drift off?
Last edited by SriKumar on 07 Jun 2015 21:27, edited 2 times in total.
Singha
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Singha »

a lot of top european engineers and academics even today migrate for good to the US due to better funding in univs, more quicker beaureaucracy, and big salary with less taxes.
Theo_Fidel

Re: Indian Education System

Post by Theo_Fidel »

Good broadside UB saar, Spoken like a true descendent of the great khan.

Not sure about IT but in other areas most Indian Engineers are not near productive enough to earn world level wages. Also WRT bankers the majority of the staff get paid peanuts. Yes there are few CEO types who get over paid but then this is true everywhere. Always a few who game the system.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by panduranghari »

Singha wrote:...big salary with less taxes.

Are you sure?

http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/taxation/d ... a-00265-en

Belgium 55% wage taxation
Ireland 28%
Switzerland 22%
Germany 50%
UK 31%
usa 31.5%
France 48%
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Singha »

but onlee US perhaps has widest choice of hot cos, huge bonuses, chances of making it big in some startup somewhere...

where are irish , french and dutch unicorn and decacorn ($10b valuation) startups like uber and such :)
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by negi »

That link again shows why people flock to US the major powerhouses in EU i.e. Germany and France have almost 50% income tax that surely will drive away anyone who wants to start a new company . Australia also has pretty steep tax rate around 40% or more . Direct IT in India is a bit relaxed but it is only the service sector which pays tax , however when you factor in the wages , inflation and indirect taxes like ST, VAT and plethora of other stuff things do not look rosy here as they should.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Bade »

http://profit.ndtv.com/news/life-and-ca ... e-featured
In the recently released EDU-RAND 2015 rankings, IIT Delhi is at the top of the list, followed by other IITs in Kharagpur, Mumbai, Chennai, Guwahati and Kanpur.

Kolkata's Jadavpur University is ranked as the best government engineering college in the country while BITS Pilani occupies the first place amongst private colleges.

In the overall list, JU occupies the 11th spot while BITS is a step ahead at number ten.

The Bengal Engineering and Science University (BESU), Shibpur, which has now been upgraded into the first Indian Institute of Engineering, Science & Technology (IIEST) is ranked 13.
So Cal has 2 colleges more than any city, if one includes KGP too :P then it is 3...and others like Presidency now an autonomous univ.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Bade »

There was a list of engg/sciences universities waiting to be upgraded to IIEST status. Currently only Shibpur has been converted and well deserved. What is the status of CUSAT and AndhraUniv or is it Osmania which was slated for the conversion ? The recent bifurcation must complicate matters too I guess. Vizag does deserve a national level univ, as the IIT went to Tirupati. Maybe Andhra Univ can be made into the next IIEST. Any one with any inside information ?
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by gakakkad »

I was doing some literature search for my research , and I accidentally stumbled upon this webpage of Amrita vishwa vidyapeeth , biochemistry and molecular biology page..

They have put some extremely world class animations and simulations of biochemistry and molecular biology lab... And allow free access... truly remarkable job...pleasantly surprised to see such good quality in an Indian university web site..

selection of experiments and the algorithms used in some simulation are quite good..

http://vlab.amrita.edu/?sub=3
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Shreeman »

For the curious, a good window into indian educashun -- http://shodhganga.inflibnet.ac.in/

Takes time in general, but you can quickly grasp the state of affairs if material is in the database and you know what/where to look. Away from sciences there is some interesting coverage.
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Supratik »

IIT 23, IIM 21, IISER 8, NIPER 10, central univ 46 - including those sanctioned in 2015. What are we missing?
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by member_28108 »

Supratik wrote:IIT 23, IIM 21, IISER 8, NIPER 10, central univ 46 - including those sanctioned in 2015. What are we missing?
IIST Trivandrum
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Re: Indian Education System

Post by Bade »

Karnataka cannot seem to make up their mind on the location of the IIT allocated there. Strange, as it has been asking for one long before even Kerala did. Just put it north of Benglaluru where there is lot of space and land. Airport is nearby and can within a decade get up close to the early five campuses in quality and brand. Put it anywhere else and no one will want to go there for sure. Gandhinagar, Hyderabad, Indore, Goa and even Jodhpur may be better options for faculty at least.

Though Guwahati made it over two decades, Mandi, Ropar, Jammu, Tirupati, Palakkad will have a tough time attracting good faculty.

Among the IISERS, Trivandrum is coming up well. Pune, Chandigarh, Bhubhaneshwar and Kalyani (Cal) have a locational advantage as well as existing labs and faculty nearby to draw upon.
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