Ha! Sir, you must have been a good boy with hair parted down the middle and an utterly rank amateur at such tasks then. I have even planted crackers in Princi's personal toilet and never got caught.SRoy wrote:once when I and a desk mate lit crackers in gent teachers toilet and one time when I was bunking morning assembly with my buddies.
Indian Education System
Re: Indian Education System
Re: Indian Education System
IIT-JEE Undergrad (GATE is for Masters right?)SaiK wrote:... and his grades fell into those 30% category who generally get poor score. well, 10% drop out on IITs after passing GATE is naaat gooooood.
Re: Indian Education System
me culpa!
-
- BRFite
- Posts: 174
- Joined: 15 Dec 2010 12:24
Re: Indian Education System
The problem in school is not exams or lack of them. There are two really big problems:
1) Teachers are not supposed to say anything negative regarding students. In practice this results in not being able to point out shortcoming/weaknesses to blatant lying. Some teachers get around this by writing nice thing in the report card, and giving the bad feedback verbally. Lots of times parents are unwilling to accept this, and complain to school-mgmt, which resulting in even this feedback stopping. It also becomes difficult to justify the negative feedback with the nice thing written in the report card.
2) Students know very well teachers cannot do anything of they behave badly, besides letting parents know. Many parents could not care less. In my sons school, students have been openly told by school-mgmt not to accept any harsh behavior by teacher (one of the reasons I am pulling him out). Respect for teachers in 'ZERO'.
There was a recent incident in DPS (I am intentionally not mentioning which one) where a parent claimed his child needed psychiatric help after a teacher looked at his son threateningly, and is considering legal action.
A parent in my wife's class created a ruckus because she had failed him. Now (as per instructions from school-mgmt), he is passed with good marks (irrespective of how he actually does) and parents are happy.
Very parents know what a big mess their aggressive intervention has created.
1) Teachers are not supposed to say anything negative regarding students. In practice this results in not being able to point out shortcoming/weaknesses to blatant lying. Some teachers get around this by writing nice thing in the report card, and giving the bad feedback verbally. Lots of times parents are unwilling to accept this, and complain to school-mgmt, which resulting in even this feedback stopping. It also becomes difficult to justify the negative feedback with the nice thing written in the report card.
2) Students know very well teachers cannot do anything of they behave badly, besides letting parents know. Many parents could not care less. In my sons school, students have been openly told by school-mgmt not to accept any harsh behavior by teacher (one of the reasons I am pulling him out). Respect for teachers in 'ZERO'.
There was a recent incident in DPS (I am intentionally not mentioning which one) where a parent claimed his child needed psychiatric help after a teacher looked at his son threateningly, and is considering legal action.
A parent in my wife's class created a ruckus because she had failed him. Now (as per instructions from school-mgmt), he is passed with good marks (irrespective of how he actually does) and parents are happy.
Very parents know what a big mess their aggressive intervention has created.
Re: Indian Education System
X-post from Strat forum:
A great read:
The English Class System (in its subaltern countries)
Opportunities Beyond English
A great read:
The English Class System (in its subaltern countries)
Opportunities Beyond English
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 14045
- Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14
Re: Indian Education System
OT, but I need the answer to this one: The poem that translates to
Thanks!
etc is attributed to Kalidasa. Can u pls point me to the Samskrtam original version, and the source?Look to this day, for it is Life..
Thanks!
Re: Indian Education System
This Raj Kumar is a young smart fellow.. VC founder of OP Jindal Univ
Re: Indian Education System
Sankrant is a fellow whom I met a while back in Seattle (he is ex MS and IITK).. He used to write in Sulekha and his piece on MS Encarta influenced a change in the Hinduism entry.
(You can follow the author on Twitter @sankrant)The brouhaha over Smriti Irani’s degree misses a bigger question. How qualified does one really become when one gets a degree? The challenge for India is to take a fresh look at the relevance of our education system. Let us follow the educational path of a hypothetical Mister Prasad with a Master’s degree in Sociology.
Prasad goes through 12 years of schooling. He doesn’t do well enough to get into engineering or medicine. Not that those fields particularly interest him but these, he is told, would make the best career. Twelve years of schooling have not left Prasad enthusiastic about studying more. But as a middle class child, it is unthinkable that he not go to college. He does not have a family business to fall back on, nor has he really learnt any marketable skills despite studying for twelve years in our schooling system. Given his grades, the best he can hope for is a BA in arts.
Why Smriti Irani’s educational qualification is a non-issue
So, Prasad applies to a few colleges and gets admitted to a Government college to study Sociology. Not that Prasad is interested in Sociology or even knows what it is. Prasad gets admitted and shows up to class. Even on the first day of class, few students are there. The professor show up late and rambles on about M M Tumins’ Social Stratification theories while Prasad doodles in his notebook. Practically, all his textbooks are a Western gaze on Indian society. He doesn’t know this and doesn’t really care. He is not comfortable speaking in English and does not speak up. None of the textbooks covers social discrimination in India based on English-speaking ability, the one he has encountered most often in his own life. What he studies is completely irrelevant to his experience, but that doesn’t really matter either to professors or to the students. The professors are there to collect a paycheck, the students to collect a degree; mugging up irrelevant stuff is all that is needed.
Prasad skips attending class and sets up a deal with his friends to mark each other as ‘present’, so that the attendance ledger can get filled. He spends his time watching movies and loitering with friends near the girls’ hostel. He finds that there are 2 or 3 ‘kunjis’ or guide books he can use to prepare a week before the exam. He makes little notes from them or ‘parchis’, so that he doesn’t have to remember much. In the exam hall, a lot of students are pulling out parchis. The examiners are reading newspapers so they don’t have to deal with the hassle of accosting any student. Prasad passes BA with 2nd division. He hasn’t learnt much more than he knew when he started. What he mugged up he has already forgotten. He cannot write a proper essay in any language, neither in Hindi – his mother tongue, nor in English.
Confused Congress rakes up non-issues to stay relevant
Prasad starts to look for a job but a BA in Sociology is not really in high demand. Nothing he has studied prepared him to be of value. He has no skills. After fifteen years of education, he has fewer skills than a kaamwaali, and could not even work as a domestic servant; he does not know how to cook. His parents were upset with him for not getting a job. Do something, they say, rather than sitting idle. He decides after BA, he can do an MA in Sociology. It holds no interest for him, but that is all he can do with his qualifications. After seventeen years of studying, Prasad is now an MA in Sociology. He has learnt nothing of any value to himself or to society. His father begs his relative to employ Prasad. Prasad gets a job as a receptionist at a real estate office. His boss, the owner, never passed 12th grade but is a success. Prasad starts to learn something for the first time.
Now, if you hear the chatter of criticism, Prasad with his MA in Sociology would be better “qualified” than Smriti Irani. But the only thing he would be better qualified to know is that our education system is largely useless, but he might not even get that. Smriti is articulate, passionate, dynamic and rooted in the Indian culture, none of which she learnt through a college degree. Whether or not she will be successful as an HRD Minister, only time will tell! But it is clear that we need to revive our education system completely and move from the culture of degrees to learning.
Re: Indian Education System
Sankranti sanu is on Rajiv malhotras forum as well.
Re: Indian Education System
Indian engineering graduates' degrees to be recognised across 17 countries
Engineering graduates from India will find it easier to take advantage of international prospects as their degrees will now be recognised across 17 major countries including the United States, Japan and Australia. On Friday, India became a permanent member of the Washington Accord, an international agreement for accrediting undergraduate engineering degree programmes.
International mobility of engineering graduates from Indian Institutes of Technology (IITs) has not been an issue given the global recognition of these institutes, but this has not been the case with the graduates from the 1,300-odd other engineering colleges in the country.
With India becoming a permanent member of the Washington Accord, Indian engineering graduates will be considered to have met the academic requirements necessary to take up the practice of engineering in any of the signatory countries. The Washington Accord aims to promote mobility and quality assurance across countries. Besides recognition for Indian engineering degrees, membership of the international accreditation agreement will ensure a minimum global quality for all engineering institutions in the country.
The decision to give India permanent membership, seven years after it acquired provisional membership, was taken at the meeting of the International Engineering Alliance in Wellington, New Zealand, on Friday. The membership is effective immediately.
This brings to a close India's 15-year quest for permanent membership.
Re: Indian Education System
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 869657.cms
that is something to talk about!
that is something to talk about!
Re: Indian Education System
Put an end to education boycott strikes: SFI
Excerpts..
The SFI has demanded all student outfits to abolish the practice of staging education boycott protests.
.....
On Sunday, CPM central committee member E P Jayarajan had opined that the new mode of strike is going to classes instead of boycotting them.
.....
He added that outfits such as SFI should do away with old-fashioned mode of protests, which have become irrelevant over the years.
Excerpts..
The SFI has demanded all student outfits to abolish the practice of staging education boycott protests.
.....
On Sunday, CPM central committee member E P Jayarajan had opined that the new mode of strike is going to classes instead of boycotting them.
.....
He added that outfits such as SFI should do away with old-fashioned mode of protests, which have become irrelevant over the years.
Re: Indian Education System
SRoy, No wonder we all jell. Similar profile in high school.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 2819
- Joined: 07 May 2009 16:49
Re: Indian Education System
Well, I would not go that route. I would like government colleges to stay as govt colleges and private as private. Govt should stop building more univs. Whatever new univs we need should be based on demand and supply. All the govt should do is to regulate the standards all univs should meet to be certified. Of course the govt should setup a NSF type body which should fund all research projects on any univ based on the merit of each proposal by a faculty member. I dont think, govt should take on the task of making a private college better via funding it. That would set a bad precedent.Theo_Fidel wrote:murali,
I think we are on the same page.
Unlike others. My question is not on quality at all. IIT quality is excellent. My questions is on priorities. Whether we like it or not the people building India today are vast majority not from IIT. It is those very same marginally functional engineers you point out who are sweating their socks off in 40c heat building India. A bit more respect and money should be dedicated to those folks. That same Rs 500 Crore would go a much longer way in improving the standard and level of education at these private institutes and making those marginal engineers slightly less marginal. GOI can increase funding for good private colleges, in return for lower fees and cut funding and shut down poor performing ones. I believe this is your position as well.
BTW saar it is loss to the construction sector that you are now in management. One wishes more engineers would stay close to the ground. But every ones personal situation is different. This option may not be easy, to say the least, in India. One institution where I have run into IIT types closer to the ground is in Indian Railways. Which is why I think IR can be fixed.
For example BITS Pilani, the college earned repute via its good placements etc.. But the quality of research is nowhere near what a good institute should have (90% of their faculty members dont have a phd), neither do they meet any publication standards. It is up to Birla to aggressively hire better faculty to improve the standards. But why would they do if the market is not demanding it. So this is what the govt should do
1. Mandate every deemed university to ensure that every new faculty member hired must have PHD (this will invariably get the ball rolling)
2. The university needs to meet stringent procedures for awarding tenure to faculty members after 6 years as asst. professorship
3. The total research output of the university in terms of publication index must meet minimum standards in every course of study they offer (we should not have situation where the physics dept is doing all the publication and the univ is busy promoting its biotech course which is doing no research)
4. Govt may consider enforcing rules (can be conference attendance or publications in reputed journals) before which any univ can grant a phd. Or else you know our system, we will have phds left right and center.
There can be many more checks and balances. But this is all the government needs to do. If Birla wants to stay in the education business, he better meet these standards. I can assure you that, education is a huge market in India and there will enough private players ready to comply to the new rules and still be in business.
The govt should assure industry that for every phd they fund, they will get some tax break. Apart from that govt its self can setup a NSF type funding body (that is the only thing that should come out of the budget for supporting research at univ level). Rest GOI may have some high end research centers. And yes, they will have to continue running the already existing govt institutes.
A similar set of rules need to be made for medical colleges too. BJP has a awesome mandate and this is the kind of sweeping education reform I expect. The run of the mill engineering colleges can shut their business or better strap their boots and improve.
Re: Indian Education System
Folks I know it might sound elitisy but the decision to open more IITs is a good thing.
Allow me to expand....
A study of human psychology, random variables, failure analysis and corrective action books tell us that regression to the mean is a natural thing.
Success and failures or hits and missess are random events along the mean line due to chance and unquanitifiable factors.
Hence we should not worry about hits or misses is the standard comment.
For example, the stats in baseball say that a hitter who scores 40 home runs a season has a high chance(~80%) of hitting 60 occassionally.
However, what this tells me is that an above average performer has the best chance of siezing the opportunity when it presents itself (Maris, Gates etc..)
I can give many examples of this point.
In our context, an IIT education is the way to give above average education to our children. And hope that they make good use of it when they have a chance. Even now IITs have high cut-offs. Whay shouldnt the next 10% get a chance at an IIT education?
Its really about preparing for the future.
Sending talented kids to mediocre colleges is not the best use of resources.
Some of you have excelled from non-IIT backgrounds. I put it to you that you are in the above average performers even in those schools and hence succeeded when the chance presented itself.
Knowing what you know don't disparage a good thing.
Allow me to expand....
A study of human psychology, random variables, failure analysis and corrective action books tell us that regression to the mean is a natural thing.
Success and failures or hits and missess are random events along the mean line due to chance and unquanitifiable factors.
Hence we should not worry about hits or misses is the standard comment.
For example, the stats in baseball say that a hitter who scores 40 home runs a season has a high chance(~80%) of hitting 60 occassionally.
However, what this tells me is that an above average performer has the best chance of siezing the opportunity when it presents itself (Maris, Gates etc..)
I can give many examples of this point.
In our context, an IIT education is the way to give above average education to our children. And hope that they make good use of it when they have a chance. Even now IITs have high cut-offs. Whay shouldnt the next 10% get a chance at an IIT education?
Its really about preparing for the future.
Sending talented kids to mediocre colleges is not the best use of resources.
Some of you have excelled from non-IIT backgrounds. I put it to you that you are in the above average performers even in those schools and hence succeeded when the chance presented itself.
Knowing what you know don't disparage a good thing.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 2819
- Joined: 07 May 2009 16:49
Re: Indian Education System
http://ugcnetonline.in/eligibility.php
ELIGIBILITY FOR ASSISTANT PROFESSOR
i) NET/SLET/SET shall remain the minimum eligibility condition for recruitment and appointment of Assistant Professors in Universities/Colleges/Institutions. Provided however, that candidates, who are or have been awarded a Ph. D. Degree in accordance with the University Grants Commission (Minimum Standards and Procedure for Award of Ph.D. Degree) Regulations, 2009, shall be exempted from the requirement of the minimum eligibility condition of NET/SLET/SET for recruitment and appointment of Assistant Professor or equivalent positions in Universities/ Colleges/ Institutions.
ii) The candidates who have passed the UGC/CSIR JRF examination prior to 1989 are also exempted from appearing in NET.
iii) For SET Candidates: The candidates who have cleared the State Eligibility Test (SET) accredited by UGC for eligibility for Assistant Professor held prior to 1st June 2002, are exempted from appearing in NET, being eligible to apply for Assistant Professor anywhere in India. For SET held from 1st June 2002 onwards, the qualified candidates are eligible to apply for the post of Assistant Professor only in the universities/ colleges situated in the state from where they have cleared their SET.
Theo,
The above is exactly what I am referring to. The bolded needs to change lock stock barrel. The minimum needs to be upgraded to be PhD period. Once you do that, you will start seeing a sweeping change. The UGC already has started cracking down on the quality of phds being granted. (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 827844.cms).
I agree that it will be tough to pass such a law one shot without protest. But it is easy to start in a phased manner like "50% of new faculty hires in every fiscal year in every univ must be phds).
ELIGIBILITY FOR ASSISTANT PROFESSOR
i) NET/SLET/SET shall remain the minimum eligibility condition for recruitment and appointment of Assistant Professors in Universities/Colleges/Institutions. Provided however, that candidates, who are or have been awarded a Ph. D. Degree in accordance with the University Grants Commission (Minimum Standards and Procedure for Award of Ph.D. Degree) Regulations, 2009, shall be exempted from the requirement of the minimum eligibility condition of NET/SLET/SET for recruitment and appointment of Assistant Professor or equivalent positions in Universities/ Colleges/ Institutions.
ii) The candidates who have passed the UGC/CSIR JRF examination prior to 1989 are also exempted from appearing in NET.
iii) For SET Candidates: The candidates who have cleared the State Eligibility Test (SET) accredited by UGC for eligibility for Assistant Professor held prior to 1st June 2002, are exempted from appearing in NET, being eligible to apply for Assistant Professor anywhere in India. For SET held from 1st June 2002 onwards, the qualified candidates are eligible to apply for the post of Assistant Professor only in the universities/ colleges situated in the state from where they have cleared their SET.
Theo,
The above is exactly what I am referring to. The bolded needs to change lock stock barrel. The minimum needs to be upgraded to be PhD period. Once you do that, you will start seeing a sweeping change. The UGC already has started cracking down on the quality of phds being granted. (http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 827844.cms).
I agree that it will be tough to pass such a law one shot without protest. But it is easy to start in a phased manner like "50% of new faculty hires in every fiscal year in every univ must be phds).
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 2819
- Joined: 07 May 2009 16:49
Re: Indian Education System
Ramana Sir,
Your point is well taken. But why go through such a long road when the government can achieve IIT or even IISC standards in all univs very fast and taken the education level to a much higher platform with simple measures like what I have posted
1. Get UGC to upgrade minimum requirements for faculty members
2. Setup a NSF type body that will fund worthwhile proposals
3. Give tax sops to any company that supports a phd student with a viable outcome
4. Crack down on univs which grant phds without stringent regulations
Regarding intake of students at a undergrad level into various institutes, thats a different ballgame. What I am talking about above is to make existing univs better. How they will go about admitting students is their business. They can opt to have their own entrance, take a jee or aieee score. Its upto them. The fundamental thing is, there is no need for govt to keep building new univs, when the easy solution is to just pass a law through UGC and upgrade faculty requirements.
On top of this, they can go ahead and audit univs at random and see if they have the required infra to support a course.
Univs will no doubt have a hard time finding enough phds, but then guess what, they will forced to pay more. Finally we will have a system where phds can look forward to a good and rewarding career which pays decent.
Your point is well taken. But why go through such a long road when the government can achieve IIT or even IISC standards in all univs very fast and taken the education level to a much higher platform with simple measures like what I have posted
1. Get UGC to upgrade minimum requirements for faculty members
2. Setup a NSF type body that will fund worthwhile proposals
3. Give tax sops to any company that supports a phd student with a viable outcome
4. Crack down on univs which grant phds without stringent regulations
Regarding intake of students at a undergrad level into various institutes, thats a different ballgame. What I am talking about above is to make existing univs better. How they will go about admitting students is their business. They can opt to have their own entrance, take a jee or aieee score. Its upto them. The fundamental thing is, there is no need for govt to keep building new univs, when the easy solution is to just pass a law through UGC and upgrade faculty requirements.
On top of this, they can go ahead and audit univs at random and see if they have the required infra to support a course.
Univs will no doubt have a hard time finding enough phds, but then guess what, they will forced to pay more. Finally we will have a system where phds can look forward to a good and rewarding career which pays decent.
Re: Indian Education System
I can still forge my dad's. Gone are those days for the new age munnas.SRoy wrote: Good many of back bench crowd actually had pretty good expertise in forging their dad's (and dad's of their friends) signatures for unit test score counter signatures. It must be tough for these kind of kids nowadays when their parents are handed over the score sheets in person.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 2819
- Joined: 07 May 2009 16:49
Re: Indian Education System
Actually the UGC NET itself is not that easy to clear and is a prelim step towards a phd. So the question is how come all these engineering colleges are operating outside the ambit of the UGC. So i guess that is the real culprit is how all colleges get recognized by AICTE which falls under UGC but has different rules.
Post edited:
Got it now, So UGC rules vary by course offered. Only univ level course even mandate a NET and can be used in lieu of a phd. But for technical engineering courses read link below
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Tir ... 320000.ece
With this kind of standards, what can we expect. I say, get rid of this whole nonsense. Just say phd a minimum for any asst. prof job.
Post edited:
Got it now, So UGC rules vary by course offered. Only univ level course even mandate a NET and can be used in lieu of a phd. But for technical engineering courses read link below
http://www.thehindu.com/news/cities/Tir ... 320000.ece
With this kind of standards, what can we expect. I say, get rid of this whole nonsense. Just say phd a minimum for any asst. prof job.
Re: Indian Education System
Is the The Council for Indian School Certificate Examinations the sole monopoly of one particular community??
Is there no one else in Bharath able to speaka da gud englishe??
What a ripoff. Only fadder, mudder and brudders, no mama or mami.
ICSE throws wife’s books at boss - Arathoon suspended for failure to seek permission before sale
Is there no one else in Bharath able to speaka da gud englishe??
What a ripoff. Only fadder, mudder and brudders, no mama or mami.
ICSE throws wife’s books at boss - Arathoon suspended for failure to seek permission before sale
MITA MUKHERJEE AND JHINUK MAZUMDAR
Calcutta, July 12: The Council for Indian School Certificate Examinations has suspended its chief executive and secretary, Gerry Arathoon, on the charge of promoting two textbooks authored by his wife Anita without the council’s permission.
“A chargesheet has been issued to Mr Arathoon. The council has found that his wife has written a book whose preface states that it has been written in keeping with the pattern of questions set by the ICSE (the Class X exam),” council chairman Father Jose Aikara told The Telegraph from Bangalore.
“This is objectionable because her husband heads the council which runs the ICSE curriculum. An inquiry is pending. He will be under suspension till further notice.”
Anita, a former teacher at Calcutta Girls’ School, has authored two guidebooks for ICSE students of Classes IX and X — The Merchant of Venice-Text with Paraphrase and The Merchant of Venice Workbook.
The books were published last year and their sale began several months ago. But Arathoon had not informed the council, a source in the council said.
Under the council’s service rules, every official must inform the council and take its approval before starting sales of a book if it has been written by the official or a relative.
Two months ago, Arathoon had been issued a showcause notice. The council was not satisfied with his reply and issued the chargesheet yesterday.
Arathoon must respond within 15 days. His reply will be placed before the council’s executive committee and a formal inquiry will follow.
“The secretary is in charge of all exam-related responsibilities and if a relative of his is writing books for the ICSE, allegations of a conflict of interest are bound to arise,” a council official said.
Calls to the phones of Arathoon and Anita, now settled in Delhi, went unanswered.
William Shakespeare’s Merchant of Venice is taught in Classes IX and X in over 2,000 schools affiliated to the council across the country, including nearly 400 in Bengal.
This isn’t the first time the council has suspended its highest administrative officer. A decade ago, then chief executive and secretary Francis Fanthome was suspended and later dismissed on charges of promoting books for ICSE schools authored by him.
The council had then introduced the clause in its rules barring senior officials and their relatives from writing and selling books for the ICSE and ISC (Classes XI and XII) curricula without its permission.
Lancelot J. Fuller, deputy secretary of the council, will officiate as the chief executive and secretary in Arathoon’s absence, the chairman said.
Schools have to interact regularly with the secretary on various matters, from registering students to appointing examiners and reviewing marks. The registration of Class IX and Class XI students is now under way.
“The schools regularly have to be in touch with the council during the registration process. We will ensure that the schools do not face any difficulty,” a source in the council said.
Father Aikara today sent an email to the principals of all the affiliated schools informing them about the suspension.
“The executive committee of the council has decided that during the period of suspension, all responsibilities of the chief executive and secretary of the council will be carried out by Lancelot J. Fuller, deputy secretary, CISCE,” the council chairman wrote in the letter.
Vivek Bharadwaj, a joint secretary in the Union coal ministry who was the Centre’s representative in the council in 2003-04, demanded a greater government role in the council’s running.
“There should be more government say in the (running of) the ICSE so that such things do not recur. Such things have never happened in the CBSE board,” he said.
Re: Indian Education System
X-post from Link Language thread in GDF:
Top-ranking tribal student at AIIMS hangs self due to frustration with English-medium higher education
Top-ranking tribal student at AIIMS hangs self due to frustration with English-medium higher education
Principal caned us for talking in Marathi: KidsNEW DELHI: A first-year MBBS student at the All India Institute of Medical Sciences, who hailed from a village in Rajasthan and was the second topper in the Scheduled Tribe category at the all-India medical entrance test, allegedly committed suicide by hanging himself from the ceiling fan of his hostel room on Saturday.
Anil Kumar Meena, 22, was reportedly struggling to cope with the English-medium teaching at the institute. His friends and family members alleged that Anil, the son of a tribal farmer in Baran district, had been facing discrimination at the institute due to his rural background and Hindi-medium education.
PUNE: Around 28 students from the eighth standard of an English medium school in Maharshtra's Pune district were allegedly caned by the school's chief executive officer (CEO) for speaking in Marathi on campus on Wednesday.
Police in Bhosari registered an FIR against the CEO late at night.
Re: Indian Education System
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 878979.cms
IISc slides 130 rungs in global varsity rankings
IISc slides 130 rungs in global varsity rankings
Re: Indian Education System
Business Standard has a great series of articles on their 40th year anniversary. One of them is about the progress of literacy:
40 Years Ago...and now: Marked variation in literacy
A mere generation ago the situation was dire - people grew up then in an environment where only a third of the population could read and write.
40 Years Ago...and now: Marked variation in literacy
Through the past decades, India has made considerable progress in enhancing education opportunities. In 1971, the country's literacy rate was 34.5 per cent; this increased to 73 per cent in 2011, it was estimated. However, as various studies have shown, marked variation in literacy rates exists across states. While the southern states of Kerala, Karnataka and Tamil Nadu have higher literacy rates than the national average, the rates of northern and central states of Uttar Pradesh, Bihar, Madhya Pradesh and Jharkhand are lower.
A mere generation ago the situation was dire - people grew up then in an environment where only a third of the population could read and write.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 14045
- Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14
Re: Indian Education System
I have to agree with this Principal: Assoc. Prof. Lal has certainly breached the college's fine traditions of total INdiscipline by bringing in strange concepts such as "rules" and "law" etc. SHOCKING!
Reminds me of the (frequent) letter-writer Brigman to the Gwinnett Daily News in Ulan Bator, who wrote loudly lamenting thatIn the notice issued to Lal on Thursday, college principal Pradumn Kumar said he “committed a gross breach of indiscipline” by talking to reporters.
The Governor does not even have the Moral Turpitude to..
Re: Indian Education System
http://www.niticentral.com/2014/09/08/s ... 37506.html
I think the right to education in mother tongue is important, but as a system must advance to future, and future is much about not to ignore English, we have no other option as to provide English as the second language. Many advanced studies are still in English and mother tongues have long way to catch up. We dont want our youngistans to lose opportunity because of "communication issues". Some basic level of English language is vital. Futhermore, from the brain development angle, world over the prescription is to mix a modern language with an archaic one. Almost all Indic languages are archaic.. so we have one problem solved.
A dual language formula, and the medium of education primarily focused on English and mother-tongue will carry us long way to the future. Also, I don't think we need a three language formula, and we can safely ignore national language issues. National integration is better servied by supporting mother-tonuge. nothing beats a mother and her language of coice to educate her kid.
Focus should be subjective while language should be outside the scope of subjective education. Our objective should not be more than two languages. English should not be thrown away..and focus only on the mother-tongue chosen. There may be certain states that might contend where there are enough population for two or more mother tongues.. such states must ensure there are teachers employed per demographics and student profile.. this will also ensure, parents sign up ahead for public schools (6 months in advance so that schools know which language teachers they need to appoint).
public school systems can definitely learn from massa! heck we can learn even from al-cheapo nation too. knowledge is universal.
I think the right to education in mother tongue is important, but as a system must advance to future, and future is much about not to ignore English, we have no other option as to provide English as the second language. Many advanced studies are still in English and mother tongues have long way to catch up. We dont want our youngistans to lose opportunity because of "communication issues". Some basic level of English language is vital. Futhermore, from the brain development angle, world over the prescription is to mix a modern language with an archaic one. Almost all Indic languages are archaic.. so we have one problem solved.
A dual language formula, and the medium of education primarily focused on English and mother-tongue will carry us long way to the future. Also, I don't think we need a three language formula, and we can safely ignore national language issues. National integration is better servied by supporting mother-tonuge. nothing beats a mother and her language of coice to educate her kid.
Focus should be subjective while language should be outside the scope of subjective education. Our objective should not be more than two languages. English should not be thrown away..and focus only on the mother-tongue chosen. There may be certain states that might contend where there are enough population for two or more mother tongues.. such states must ensure there are teachers employed per demographics and student profile.. this will also ensure, parents sign up ahead for public schools (6 months in advance so that schools know which language teachers they need to appoint).
public school systems can definitely learn from massa! heck we can learn even from al-cheapo nation too. knowledge is universal.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 2577
- Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
- Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
- Contact:
Re: Indian Education System
The trivial solution is to have bilingual textbooks --- the left page in hindi or local language and right page will have EXACT same translation in English. (Aside --- I have been campaigning for bilingual textbooks for over 14 years now) !! And one can also have trilingual textbooks. Page no 3k+1 will have text in Hindi, and page 3k+2 will have same page in English and page 3k+3 will have same page in local language. The questions should be in 2-3 languages too. Some 35% questions will be MCQ and so language wont matter. Rest is OSFSaiK wrote:http://www.niticentral.com/2014/09/08/s ... 37506.html
I think the right to education in mother tongue is important, but as a system must advance to future, and future is much about not to ignore English, we have no other option as to provide English as the second language. Many advanced studies are still in English and mother tongues have long way to catch up. We dont want our youngistans to lose opportunity because of "communication issues". Some basic level of English language is vital. Futhermore, from the brain development angle, world over the prescription is to mix a modern language with an archaic one. Almost all Indic languages are archaic.. so we have one problem solved.
A dual language formula, and the medium of education primarily focused on English and mother-tongue will carry us long way to the future. Also, I don't think we need a three language formula, and we can safely ignore national language issues. National integration is better servied by supporting mother-tonuge. nothing beats a mother and her language of coice to educate her kid.
Focus should be subjective while language should be outside the scope of subjective education. Our objective should not be more than two languages. English should not be thrown away..and focus only on the mother-tongue chosen. There may be certain states that might contend where there are enough population for two or more mother tongues.. such states must ensure there are teachers employed per demographics and student profile.. this will also ensure, parents sign up ahead for public schools (6 months in advance so that schools know which language teachers they need to appoint).
public school systems can definitely learn from massa! heck we can learn even from al-cheapo nation too. knowledge is universal.
Re: Indian Education System
Not really that trivial-Rahul Mehta wrote: The trivial solution is to have bilingual textbooks --- the left page in hindi or local language and right page will have EXACT same translation in English. (Aside --- I have been campaigning for bilingual textbooks for over 14 years now) !! And one can also have trilingual textbooks. Page no 3k+1 will have text in Hindi, and page 3k+2 will have same page in English and page 3k+3 will have same page in local language. The questions should be in 2-3 languages too. Some 35% questions will be MCQ and so language wont matter. Rest is OSF
>The text will become double the thickness and maybe 03 times the cost
>The cost will increase because of more paper and translation work.
>Translations and quality control is a night mare
>Teachers use the Textbooks, children merely follow them. Now, if Teacher does not use the 2nd language, children won't. Our classrooms are mechanical assembly lines almost (most schools, don't talk about those big, good schools in metros)
> A fatter book will tear faster. Unless you hard bind them and drive up the prices further
>Who will lift the weight of these fatter books on their shoulders to humour your multilingual solutions - Little Children.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 2577
- Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
- Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
- Contact:
Re: Indian Education System
Rajasthan BJP Minister Glabchand Kataria says that "law-draft not to fail students till class-8" is foreigner's plot to weaken Indian education !!
Rajasthan Patrika , Udaipur edition, page-8, 14-sep-2014
Here is the newspaper scan I got by email. Please zoom in to read whole text.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=802271276459568
I am glad he is reading all BRF posts.
======
http://rajasthanpatrika.patrika.com/new ... 85534.html
"8वीं तक फेल न करना बर्बादी"
जयपुर। पंचायती राज मंत्री गुलाबचंद कटारिया ने प्रदेश की शिक्षा व्यवस्था पर सवाल उठाने के बाद देश के शिक्षा ढांचे पर करारा कटाक्ष किया है। कटारिया ने शनिवार को कहा कि आठवीं कक्षा तक बच्चे को फेल न कर उसे पढ़ाई से दूर किया जा रहा है। उन्होंने शिक्षा का अधिकार कानून (आरटीई) के इस नियम का जिक्र करते हुए कहा, यह भारतीय प्रतिभाओं को समय से पहले खत्म करने की विदेशी साजिश है। केंद्र और राज्य सरकार इस पर करोड़ों रूपए खर्च कर रही है। शिक्षा व्यवस्था का बेड़ा गर्क होते देख दुख होता है।
कटारिया ने ये बातें उच्च शिक्षा में नियामक तंत्र विष्ाय पर आयोजित सेमिनार में कहीं। इस दौरान मुख्यमंत्री वसुंधरा राजे भी मौजूद थीं। सेमिनार अखिल भारतीय राष्ट्रीय श्ौक्षिक महासंघ, महाविद्यालय शिक्षक संघ (राष्ट्रीय) और राजस्थान विवि के हिंदी विभाग की ओर से आयोजित किया गया था। कटारिया ने कहा, निजी स्कूलों पर भी लगाम तभी कसी जा सकेगी, जब सरकारी स्कूलों को मजबूत करेंगे। यह सही है कि आरटीई में खामियां हैं, जिसे दूर करने की जरूरत है। आठवीं कक्षा तक बच्चों को उत्तीर्ण करने की अनिवार्यता समाप्त होनी चाहिए। केबिनेट मंत्री के तबादले को लेकर शिक्षकों पर दिए गए बयान पर अफसोस है। .....
Rajasthan Patrika , Udaipur edition, page-8, 14-sep-2014
Here is the newspaper scan I got by email. Please zoom in to read whole text.
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=802271276459568
I am glad he is reading all BRF posts.
======
http://rajasthanpatrika.patrika.com/new ... 85534.html
"8वीं तक फेल न करना बर्बादी"
जयपुर। पंचायती राज मंत्री गुलाबचंद कटारिया ने प्रदेश की शिक्षा व्यवस्था पर सवाल उठाने के बाद देश के शिक्षा ढांचे पर करारा कटाक्ष किया है। कटारिया ने शनिवार को कहा कि आठवीं कक्षा तक बच्चे को फेल न कर उसे पढ़ाई से दूर किया जा रहा है। उन्होंने शिक्षा का अधिकार कानून (आरटीई) के इस नियम का जिक्र करते हुए कहा, यह भारतीय प्रतिभाओं को समय से पहले खत्म करने की विदेशी साजिश है। केंद्र और राज्य सरकार इस पर करोड़ों रूपए खर्च कर रही है। शिक्षा व्यवस्था का बेड़ा गर्क होते देख दुख होता है।
कटारिया ने ये बातें उच्च शिक्षा में नियामक तंत्र विष्ाय पर आयोजित सेमिनार में कहीं। इस दौरान मुख्यमंत्री वसुंधरा राजे भी मौजूद थीं। सेमिनार अखिल भारतीय राष्ट्रीय श्ौक्षिक महासंघ, महाविद्यालय शिक्षक संघ (राष्ट्रीय) और राजस्थान विवि के हिंदी विभाग की ओर से आयोजित किया गया था। कटारिया ने कहा, निजी स्कूलों पर भी लगाम तभी कसी जा सकेगी, जब सरकारी स्कूलों को मजबूत करेंगे। यह सही है कि आरटीई में खामियां हैं, जिसे दूर करने की जरूरत है। आठवीं कक्षा तक बच्चों को उत्तीर्ण करने की अनिवार्यता समाप्त होनी चाहिए। केबिनेट मंत्री के तबादले को लेकर शिक्षकों पर दिए गए बयान पर अफसोस है। .....
Last edited by Rahul Mehta on 15 Sep 2014 15:00, edited 1 time in total.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 2577
- Joined: 22 Nov 2001 12:31
- Location: Ahmedabad, India --- Bring JurySys in India
- Contact:
Re: Indian Education System
I met a 3rd year engineering student who did his 12th from Gujarat board and is now in college under Gujarat Technical University. And I am writing what he told me.
1. Some 90% questions in Maths , Science, Physics and Chemistry exams in class-X and class-XII come from textbook only. Some 50% are solved examples given in textbooks.
2. In engineering, some 70% questions in final exam come from past 5 years exams and solved examples given in the textbook.
3. Many students in engineering only read and cram some 50 page sure suggestion booklet, and never even buy textbook and dont even touch reference books. They easily get 50% marks.
4. His elder brother is teacher in a school. They are unofficially getting instructions NOT to fail any students till class-VIII . And soon, Gujarat Board may make it as official policy !!
I dont know about other states.
1. Some 90% questions in Maths , Science, Physics and Chemistry exams in class-X and class-XII come from textbook only. Some 50% are solved examples given in textbooks.
2. In engineering, some 70% questions in final exam come from past 5 years exams and solved examples given in the textbook.
3. Many students in engineering only read and cram some 50 page sure suggestion booklet, and never even buy textbook and dont even touch reference books. They easily get 50% marks.
4. His elder brother is teacher in a school. They are unofficially getting instructions NOT to fail any students till class-VIII . And soon, Gujarat Board may make it as official policy !!
I dont know about other states.
Last edited by Rahul Mehta on 25 Sep 2014 10:35, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Education System
reminds me of Trinidad from elementary school to university !
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 3788
- Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14
Re: Indian Education System
When I did my undergrad (from XYZ college of engineering, India), the way they used to ask questions in the exams were
Q1) <Insert random topic from syllabus>, explain more about it?
Q2) <Insert random well known problem>, solve this.
All the people who were expert in memory gymnastics scored excellent percentage. I ended up barely making it through because I wanted to understand the science behind it, and could care less about mugging up stuff.
Q1) <Insert random topic from syllabus>, explain more about it?
Q2) <Insert random well known problem>, solve this.
All the people who were expert in memory gymnastics scored excellent percentage. I ended up barely making it through because I wanted to understand the science behind it, and could care less about mugging up stuff.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 7212
- Joined: 23 May 2002 11:31
- Location: badenberg in US administered part of America
Re: Indian Education System
As was discussed years ago IITs, at least the older ones are moving towards a plan to become research universities. This is very good news.
http://www.iitm.ac.in/sites/default/fil ... an2020.pdf
http://www.iitm.ac.in/sites/default/fil ... an2020.pdf
Re: Indian Education System
That sounds so similar! 90% of the time I would ask a question in India to my teacher only to be reprimanded or even a hit by a stick for "not understanding at your home or doing homework". As oppose to USA where 99% of the time teachers would spend time to make sure you understand and 1% of the time they will schedule a dedicated time.by LokeshC
I ended up barely making it through because I wanted to understand the science behind it, and could care less about mugging up stuff.
So my habit of not asking questions to my teachers and just trying to learn it by myself (roaming through library) was finally solved in 1990s with advent of Bulletin Boards, Usenet, Gopher and Internet.
These days BR itself (Check Math, Physics, economy, etc threads) is a better source of scientific/economics/etc knowledge than probably millions of teachers in 8th grade and up schools in India.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 7212
- Joined: 23 May 2002 11:31
- Location: badenberg in US administered part of America
Re: Indian Education System
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/home ... 076745.cms
The agreement allows Purdue faculty to co-advise doctoral students at IIT-Madras and vice versa. "This will help foster international experience for students at the two universities, with student visits to the other university. There will be a co-adviser from another country," Purdue University president Mitch Daniels said. Purdue University is the third most prominent STEM (science, technology, engineering and mathematics) university in the US, and is ranked highly among world universities in The Times Higher Education World University rankings and the US News and World Report rankings of undergraduate programmes.
More than a dozen faculty members from seven departments at IIT-M are involved in collaborative research with their counterparts at Purdue, which has 1,500 students from India.
The heads of the two institutions spoke about reforms brought in to keep pace with the way students learn and the requirements of the job market. Daniels said they were looking to transform at least one of the university's colleges to a project-based mode to allow students to move through the course according to their potential. Competency-based degrees will be awarded to students based on demonstrated mastery of concepts and skills rather than performance measured only at fixed calendar intervals of classroom time.
Re: Indian Education System
^^^ Would be interesting to know the details of the Memorandum of Understanding,....especially the parts about how this program is funded.....not sure if it is in the public domain.
-
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 7212
- Joined: 23 May 2002 11:31
- Location: badenberg in US administered part of America
Re: Indian Education System
Usually how these things work is your home institute pays for it, like travel expenses if any. So only work is exchanged and no money is. Sometime equipment is built at the home institute and shipped for use in the host institute.
The model used by the HEP community in India is similar but they also get financial support from the host institute as it usually involves long stays by graduate students ( a couple of years). Delhi and Panjab University follows this model of funding for such long stays. But that is because the host institute is not a University but a national facility with funds to pay for visiting scientists, even junior ones.
The model used by the HEP community in India is similar but they also get financial support from the host institute as it usually involves long stays by graduate students ( a couple of years). Delhi and Panjab University follows this model of funding for such long stays. But that is because the host institute is not a University but a national facility with funds to pay for visiting scientists, even junior ones.
Re: Indian Education System
arshaym and devesh garlu: (Reply for the Indo-US thread discussion. Let us continue here if need be).
Goes without saying that scientific/intellectual disagreement from students our top institutions needs to be encouraged.
The problem I have with JNU is that it has veered off too far to the left and has become a mouthpiece of only a certain point of view. An institution however good cannot be considered world class unless all points of view are given a hearing (calmly or otherwise - but mind you no physical violenece) and are rebutted with facts and logic rather than demonstrations and protests. Every small issue cannot and should not be taken to the streets. In other words theory and practice have to go hand in hand. Ideally all educational institutions should be centrist but in practce some have a small left tilt where as some have a little right of the center. Understandably left leaning institutes are more given the constituency. But then politics is secondary to learning and getting educated. Theory and practice should go hand in hand with theory having the uperhand.
JNU misses on that score, IMHO and all that. The environment has become too activist and poltical. These two are not that discomforting if they stay in limits of academic discourse and the thoughts put forward are original.
Goes without saying that scientific/intellectual disagreement from students our top institutions needs to be encouraged.
The problem I have with JNU is that it has veered off too far to the left and has become a mouthpiece of only a certain point of view. An institution however good cannot be considered world class unless all points of view are given a hearing (calmly or otherwise - but mind you no physical violenece) and are rebutted with facts and logic rather than demonstrations and protests. Every small issue cannot and should not be taken to the streets. In other words theory and practice have to go hand in hand. Ideally all educational institutions should be centrist but in practce some have a small left tilt where as some have a little right of the center. Understandably left leaning institutes are more given the constituency. But then politics is secondary to learning and getting educated. Theory and practice should go hand in hand with theory having the uperhand.
JNU misses on that score, IMHO and all that. The environment has become too activist and poltical. These two are not that discomforting if they stay in limits of academic discourse and the thoughts put forward are original.