Indian IT Industry

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 03 Apr 2014 06:55

All this agile vagile thing is bakwaas. Just something an academic pulls out of his musharraf.

Most people just do these things for the sake of it. To gloat about it. I did an interview some weeks ago over phone. The manager tells me that he is an "agile evangelist". I decided right then that I didn't want to work for some process fanatic.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 03 Apr 2014 10:01

In my project, Architecture work is done in the first sprint and then only it goes for reporting and analytics. In case there are additional changes, it will be taken up in due course

My architect basically drives the project rather than anyone else. Everyone in the team talks to them and they are the prized resources since only they know what is intended in the user stories

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 03 Apr 2014 10:03

Gus wrote:turn it back on them and ask for a request letter on company letter stating the company policy of asking for and retaining your original certificates, along with policies of storage and liabilities in case of loss or damage, and finally the return policy on these certificates - and that it has to bear company seal and sign from appropriate authority.

Thing is we shouldn't allow such practices in the first place, brings back memories of indentured labour. I just fret to think how the working conditions and policies will be in such companies who hold the resource at hostage even before joining the org. Politics must be of the nth order in such organizations.

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 03 Apr 2014 15:17

So whats the most complex project you have worked on where YOU have done the coding?

My current assignment seems to be the one. Here code generates code which in turn generates code which is compiled at run time and then run. Mind goes into tizzy visualizing how the generated code should be and the code that in turn should generate. Most of it is top secret stuff onlee. Given tasks on a need to do basis by some top honcho who says that this product has no peer in the market. Colleagues mock me when I tell them I don't know the entire user story for this product. "I can tell you but I have to kill you" types.

When I started out my career in TCS I used to be in awe of "windows products". Me building just simple "services" in form of web applications only, can never be like gora developers who build windows, we use tools "written" by them to build "services". Now that I am building these windows products all that shock and awe is gone.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 03 Apr 2014 15:39

Regarding Agile and such beasts..let share an anecdote.

Years ago when yours truly was a budding project manager. I was asked to prepare and present the project plan for reviews.
After consulting the team and sales, I got the message that the customer would like to see something delivered in regular intervals and participate in testing as well.
We went over the requirements, drew a out a use case list, sorted them by priority etc. etc.

The dialogue with the process and quality droids went like this.

PQ: "You have chosen a classic waterfall model. But we also have some alternatives like XP, Agile. Any reasons for the WF approach"?

Me: "The team and me are familiar with WF based process and documentation only. If we choose something else the team would have to undergo training with new Q framework, templates etc."

PQ: "But your plan shows a series of design->code->test->deploy cycles, which means the team is adopting an iterative delivery approach?". "The plan looks very awkward, doesn't fit any of the approved frameworks, you've many notes in the section for process tailoring list for the project".

Me: "Not really. We have complete requirement list upfront. Signed and stamped

. WF will fit"

PQ: "Okay then its an incremental delivery. Supposing the account manager offloads requirements from that list every few weeks to the team, then from the team point of view its iterative, notwithstanding the fact that you know the complete list from day one. Agile will fit"

>>

So I went back redrafted the project plan. After this...

PQ: "Okay, now you have opted for Agile. But still looks WF template".

Me: "Why?" . "We are undertaken change in delivery life cycle as you can see."

PQ: "From your documents, it still looks like WF. Terminology is same. Staff roles are same."

Now my team lead lost his cool.

TL: (Sarcastically) "So, if we change the terminology it will become a Agile based plan?"

PQ: (Red Face) "Do you even know how iterative development works?" "Just coding and MS Project .mpp is not a project"

TL: (Fist clenched) "And do even know what's software development" . (Now the TL gets personal) "Considering the years of experience you have, by my reckoning I delivered my first iterative approach based project when you were in class 10th, provided you never failed".

Me: "Calm down folks." (To PQ) "You should appreciate the fact that approaches existed long ago, and it is very recent that special interest groups have started formalizing them. So, you have some names to identify those approaches. I think we should concentrate on the task on hand".

TL: (Now in full combat mode to PQ) "Since the problem is now just confined to nomenclature and document structure is proper and processes descriptions are correct, why don't you do a find and replace. Anyway you are assigned to the project and do nothing other than finding faults with word documents"

PQ: (Lost it completely) "This meeting is over. I'll talk to your BU head and also to the HR"

TL: "Why? Are you putting down your paper?"

Conference room explodes in laughter.

girish.r · Post by **girish.r** » 03 Apr 2014 19:42

KJoishy wrote:All this agile vagile thing is bakwaas. Just something an academic pulls out of his musharraf.

Most people just do these things for the sake of it. To gloat about it. I did an interview some weeks ago over phone. The manager tells me that he is an "agile evangelist". I decided right then that I didn't want to work for some process fanatic.

Same with SCUM (sorry scrum) managers. Throw these jargons as much as possible.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 03 Apr 2014 19:55

Reminds me of a phone interview I did about 6 years ago, I was in Java development and hated my boss so I wanted a group change. I was asked to talk to a developer in the team and the guy immediately launches into xml nitty gritty of Struts. Haughtily asked me about the syntax of struts-config.xml file and what each tag did and the options allowed. I told him I didn't need to remember the syntax because WebSphere Application Developer had a UI over that file which allowed you to do updates to the xml file but I could tell me what he could do there. No. He wanted the xml syntax.

I thought another poor sod who thinks his balls are big just because he knows some syntax that will be obsolete pretty soon. He didn't talk about anything business related that their product did.

Many interviews are just for grumpy frustrated interviewers to vent and show off. I talked to someone in Compaq in Houston around 1997 and he was in an angry mood, he pulled out a mouse and pointed to it and said that HE and only HE wrote the device driver for that, not the other guy. "This one... I Did... I did!!!"

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Apr 2014 20:26

But realistically its the 5% of such wierd outlaws who solve the big problems.
rest 75% are able to fill in the rest .20% are not productive.

dont underestimate the problems of writing reliable device drivers...on new hw and boards...a army of ppl in places like netz do that.

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 05 Apr 2014 19:33

Sure Agile is a waste. We just found out the CISCO has mandated it for all its product engineering groups. And wait. Erricson has mandated it too! Agile is not back wash. It brings manufacturing model to Software engineering. It brings great deal of improvement in software delivery execution - both in terms of cost/schedule and quality (bugs ). Requires a high level of discipline, technical skills, development automation to truely do agile driven software production!

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 05 Apr 2014 19:38

One more point - since it does not believe in producing documents, all those folks who made a living by churning out all kinds of documents ( for requirement to architecture to test cases to user manual ) are all toast in agile. Only real programmers and testers will remain along with the execution manager ( task manager ). Hence a lot of those doc folks hate agile!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Apr 2014 20:24

>> We just found out the CISCO has mandated it for all its product engineering groups

thats not true. there is no way in hell any of the routing or switching engg groups can develop features or new products using agile model. there is just too much complexity and legacy in the ways of the old world. programmers and testers already write almost all of the docs in netz projects. the only important doc not written by them is product requirement doc that product manager writes after interacting with customers.

i have heard of some lightweight acquisitions like tandberg that were doing agile before they were bought and just kept on doing it after merger. I have seen presentations where they keep trying to evangelize it around the company, but nobody in any position of power seems interested in churning the already deeply muddy waters.

netz is a co which also bypassed the C++/OO "revolution" nearly totally except in some smaller acquisitions. pretty much 100% of routers and switches are C + assembly and will continue to be so.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 05 Apr 2014 23:15

documentation does not exclusively means process/quality documentation.
it also includes stuff like installation and administration manuals, user manuals, product descriptions. stuff for which you get paid for by the customers.

there are also things that you have to get it right in a single shot. for example scalability requirements. there are critical sub units that cannot be x% done, but they are either done or not.

real programmers hate all process frameworks, Agile included.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 06 Apr 2014 01:23

I have a suspicion that the vocal votaries of Agile/XP/<put your favourite here> have really not done any serious software development. I'm not talking of system integration work from desi MNC's.

These techniques were tricks of the trade as far as I remember.

I haven't yet seen a programmer that code and compile any non-trivial code in a single go.
Add one or two functions, recompile, test. Refactor recompile, test. Optimize, recompile, test.
Once you gain enough experience, you apply that at a more higher level. By weekend put components and module in a shape with whatever number of features that runs without crashing self or other.

It's all good old divide and conquer strategy.

But some folks have succeeded in putting a label to it and made a lot of money by giving lectures, trainings, writing books.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 06 Apr 2014 15:13

girish.r wrote:1 Legally there is nothing to stop employer from asking these documents

This looks like a new phenomenon

. Slowly but steadily the old "bonded labour" culture is getting in IT/Vity etc. Earlier there was a practise of making people sign bonds etc. Vegetable Oil.Co made people sign bonds when they were sent on H1B VISAs. But this I guess was all busted using the existing legal frame works. But holding back the documents may be an indication that companies are also desperate. These days people just decide to go else where at the last moment. So companies are trying all sorts of tricks to make sure that the selected chap would at least land up in their office for one day

.

subhamoy.das wrote:Requires a high level of discipline, technical skills, development automation to truely do agile driven software production!

Many of the Indian IT sweat shops would find the bolded part a bit of a tough ask. This is because many of them go for low cost recruitment options. Work discipline and technical skills only come with experience and it is going to take time. I chanced to interview a lady who came with 1.5 years exp in Java/J2EE. And to my shock I found out that, the last 1.5 years was spent on a support project where her work was to physically monitor FTP file transfers (and redo it, if that failed) and making some data corrections using an already built UI. So all said and done Java/J2EE programmer who has not even written a single line of code in the last 1.5 years (and never before that as well).

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Apr 2014 06:43

got the news that juniper had quiet RIF both in sunnyvale and blr last week.
seems their enterprise div took a big hit due to the lack of response to the Q-fabric architecture for data centers.
word from my product mgr friend in another co was they might refocus back on service provider mkt only.

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Apr 2014 09:30

^^ Chipzilla seems to have a big "sending home party" lined up for a large number of validation folks in Blr since they are apparently moving them back to US ( due to some US govt rules etc). Most of the folks have been served a 4-5 month notice to look out elsewhere

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 07 Apr 2014 10:21

pandyan wrote:bhat is RIF saar?

Reduction in force aka retrenchment aka right sizing aka layoffs aka management games aka plain old stupidity of the upper management to have believed their own marketing hype and hire increase labor cost and investors loose their shirt aka hedge fund managers take home bonus of a billion or two.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 07 Apr 2014 10:25

Singha wrote:dont underestimate the problems of writing reliable device drivers...on new hw and boards...a army of ppl in places like netz do that.

right now I am burning mid night oil to give some heartburn to those folks who have written GPGPU drivers. Looks like there are folks who have done their homework and would come through in a year or two. As of now multiple devices on a workstation is a problem for some libraries and memory (about 6 GB or 8GB on the high end cards) is a little too small for some analyses.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 07 Apr 2014 10:35

Singha wrote:netz is a co which also bypassed the C++/OO "revolution" nearly totally except in some smaller acquisitions. pretty much 100% of routers and switches are C + assembly and will continue to be so.

Bypassing C++ is a good move. The bloat is enormous and it is impossible to program anything without understanding b**t ugly template meta-programming and all kinds of IDEs like Eclipse or VS (MS is already onto VS2014 and going strong with a new release every year with new project/solution formats). Currying (partial bindings) is not done right but is unavoidable if one is doing any kind of threads (I presume this would be pthreads for people like netzilla). MS is not supporting the new standard in its fullest and not likely to do so. They have already stated as much. Their recommendation is to go for C# or F# which are nice languages but there is an enormous amount of code base in unmanaged C++ which is not going to move to managed C++ (MS's non standard C++) anytime soon. Of course, C has its own (big big) problems. Assembly - don't even get me started - is a productivity killer.

sum · Post by **sum** » 07 Apr 2014 10:35

Marten wrote:Hearsay from a friend: Intel was having a tough time with clearances for folks from India on some projects. Some folks sent back to India and some work has been pushed back to CA. Not sure how much of this will impact headcount in India.

Seems this is part of the same thing i was talking about!

^^ Chipzilla seems to have a big "sending home party" lined up for a large number of validation folks in Blr since they are apparently moving them back to US ( due to some US govt rules etc). Most of the folks have been served a 4-5 month notice to look out elsewhere

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 07 Apr 2014 10:43

SRoy wrote:But some folks have succeeded in putting a label to it and made a lot of money by giving lectures, trainings,
writing books.

A properly debugged process framework along with best practices is extremely important for product companies. That is the common thread which starts the inception phase and ends up in deployment phase which has to be considered at the time of initial design. It has an impact on money, headcount, completion time, critical path(s) and all that stuff which most people (err I mean real programmers) do not want to deal with. FLOSS is filled with "real programmers" there are a lot of POS which some times workey and sometimes no workey. Strangely quite a bit of the IT world runs on FLOSS backends. Go figure.

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 25 Apr 2014 20:35

Programmers think that by writing the best code, the customer will be happy. They donot see the execution side of things - speed, efficiency, quality, customer complains. Agile is a concept of controlling human execution engines by breaking down a big human objective into smaller human produced results and then delivering and validating those results every 2-3 weeks. Documents - technical with gory details of code and control structures - can also be produced in this iterative model. The other side of agile is analytics driven tracking. If car engines can be measure by speed o meter, then human driven execution engines can also be measure for speed using the concept of velocity.

The quality aspect of agile is equally good. When cars or other machines are produced, they are constantly subjected to tests. Agile takes this concept to software development. Software should also be subjected to constant test and bugs - read human errors - must be fixed round the clock. Every source code modified even 1 single comments produces a new copy of the product and should be tested. Thus comes the concept of test driven engineering or constant integration etc.

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 25 Apr 2014 20:37

agile is not for the faint hearted and certainly not for Indian IT sweat shops unless the product owner - customer - mandates it!

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 25 Apr 2014 23:26

matrimc wrote:
SRoy wrote:But some folks have succeeded in putting a label to it and made a lot of money by giving lectures, trainings,
writing books.
A properly debugged process framework along with best practices is extremely important for product companies. That is the common thread which starts the inception phase and ends up in deployment phase which has to be considered at the time of initial design. It has an impact on money, headcount, completion time, critical path(s) and all that stuff which most people (err I mean real programmers) do not want to deal with. FLOSS is filled with "real programmers" there are a lot of POS which some times workey and sometimes no workey. Strangely quite a bit of the IT world runs on FLOSS backends. Go figure.

Some of the best FLOSS products are started and maintained by 3-4 size team (not talking of committers...hobbyists with commit privileges), running over decades, project originators working at their own pace with no "deadline" pressure. No process framework needed there.

However, the best FLOSS products are also funded directly or have programmers employed by major tech shops. Point to note is that open source contributions by these employed programmers falls outside their own organizations P&Q oversight.

On the other hand real POS is produced by corporate chimps otherwise called enterprise developers. Customers pay through their noses for these nonsense. So much for process frameworks that comes out in seminars and conventions every six months.

If you put together the above two then it seems it is the mediocre masses that toil their way through process frameworks, while the best lot gets to work on stuff of their choices unencumbered.

In our organizations we have such folks that contribute to about a score of FLOSS projects. Also of interest is that there is R&D group that is outside the purview of P&Q.
We work with P&Q, but at the end of the day product managers and architects hold the key over intellectual property and patents which are lifeblood of any product company. So we have a leeway.
The real tyranny of the P&Q was over the professional services division that was mercifully hived off to Atos Origin few years ago.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Apr 2014 07:47

I have dealt with all sets of ppl from all backgrounds in khan and here over 17 years now.

The biggest ego and attitude over the natives is exhibited by indians who did ms in khan and joined some co there. Add in a few more points if said student was a iitian before ms.

Rest all tend to work together fine. I have never seen americans make a huge deal and differentiation at work or cluster into cliques based on where they studied...whether some state univ or cornell/mit, hands on gurus and helpful people are respected.

subhamoy.das · Post by **subhamoy.das** » 26 Apr 2014 07:56

The American motto of life is quite simple - does not matter where u come from , what matters is what u got! A true varna or talent based system that enables a carpenter at the ago of 50 to get back to school, learn programming and become a successful programmer!

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 26 Apr 2014 20:04

Singha wrote:I have dealt with all sets of ppl from all backgrounds in khan and here over 17 years now.

The biggest ego and attitude over the natives is exhibited by indians who did ms in khan and joined some co there. Add in a few more points if said student was a iitian before ms.

Rest all tend to work together fine. I have never seen americans make a huge deal and differentiation at work or cluster into cliques based on where they studied...whether some state univ or cornell/mit, hands on gurus and helpful people are respected.

My anecdotal evidence does not match with the latter part i.e. not bragging and/or colluding with some specific university. In a research center around Princeton, there was a Princeton/Non-Princeton groupism, although interestingly there was one desi ex-IIT/ex-Princeton who was completely different from the lot. Very down to earth and a fast thinker.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 26 Apr 2014 20:27

We definitely need more down to earth Indians, possessing superior 'soft skills', and awareness of Indian diversity, as well as serious Indian issues, like Kashmir, the North east and the Naxal problem. I'm often shocked and dismayed at the poor level of awareness of Indians, and lack of expressiveness. For example, one hears disdain or ignorance of South India( i.e labelling it all "South"), and poor knowledge of the Kashmir issue, including the chronology of elections, and the militant/terrorist attempt to disrupt those elections. No, it's positively not only an Indian problem, but being Indian/origin, we generally expect better of ourselves!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Apr 2014 20:43

^ thats far ahead of the curve sir. we have ppl who can sit on youtube and tea breaks for hrs a day but need a tax consultant to file a simple tax return with zero complicated factors. who literally have no idea of any other part of the country barring their own.

we are raising emotionally retarded brats with no versatility to read a few pages of instructions and always looking for "agents" and "download some scripts/code sample" for any job.

weak in mind. weak in body. ripe to be dhimmis in every sphere.

there are massive failures of our education system and society as a whole behind this.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 26 Apr 2014 20:52

SRoy wrote:documentation does not exclusively means process/quality documentation.
it also includes stuff like installation and administration manuals, user manuals, product descriptions. stuff for which you get paid for by the customers.

there are also things that you have to get it right in a single shot. for example scalability requirements. there are critical sub units that cannot be x% done, but they are either done or not.

real programmers hate all process frameworks, Agile included.

The last sentence is so true.
I did an interview recently and the hiring manager described himself as an agile evangelist and that was it for me, I declined further rounds.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 26 Apr 2014 20:53

Singha wrote:^ thats far ahead of the curve sir. we have ppl who can sit on youtube and tea breaks for hrs a day but need a tax consultant to file a simple tax return with zero complicated factors. who literally have no idea of any other part of the country barring their own.

we are raising emotionally retarded brats with no versatility to read a few pages of instructions and always looking for "agents" and "download some scripts/code sample" for any job.

weak in mind. weak in body. ripe to be dhimmis in every sphere.

there are massive failures of our education system and society as a whole behind this.

+108. Well said.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Apr 2014 21:11

Well put singha.

RamaY, the first step in recovery is to get out of denial. That is what I like about US - they are best critics of themselves. India was also like that at one time but has softened in the name of "building confidence in the youngsters" and terming any self examination and even self deprecation in humor and introverted personality as "self flagellation", self hate, scoring own goals, etc. When you are in the battle field (or on a cricket pitch or sales-marketing) there should be no self doubt and ego and fierce loyalty to the paltan is a must, but doesn't work that way in science where it is somewhat easier (but still quite difficult) to separate revolutionary ideas/inventions/discoveries/proofs from run of the mill.

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 29 Apr 2014 10:11

sum wrote:
Marten wrote:Hearsay from a friend: Intel was having a tough time with clearances for folks from India on some projects. Some folks sent back to India and some work has been pushed back to CA. Not sure how much of this will impact headcount in India.
Seems this is part of the same thing i was talking about!
^^ Chipzilla seems to have a big "sending home party" lined up for a large number of validation folks in Blr since they are apparently moving them back to US ( due to some US govt rules etc). Most of the folks have been served a 4-5 month notice to look out elsewhere

All my friends are gone, I don't know how I escaped

sum · Post by **sum** » 29 Apr 2014 10:15

^^ Same here in my company's bloodbath saar. Somehow i survived by some divine grace

Guess BRF ka aashirwaad and Dilbu style anti-jinx mantras are at work here!

SaraLax · Post by **SaraLax** » 01 May 2014 10:27

Singha wrote:>> We just found out the CISCO has mandated it for all its product engineering groups

thats not true. there is no way in hell any of the routing or switching engg groups can develop features or new products using agile model. there is just too much complexity and legacy in the ways of the old world. programmers and testers already write almost all of the docs in netz projects. the only important doc not written by them is product requirement doc that product manager writes after interacting with customers.

i have heard of some lightweight acquisitions like tandberg that were doing agile before they were bought and just kept on doing it after merger. I have seen presentations where they keep trying to evangelize it around the company, but nobody in any position of power seems interested in churning the already deeply muddy waters.

netz is a co which also bypassed the C++/OO "revolution" nearly totally except in some smaller acquisitions. pretty much 100% of routers and switches are C + assembly and will continue to be so.

Plain old C language that uses some standard Open source libraries like Pthread, OpenSSL, GLib & etc (including some HAL given by platform vendor) for creation of software that has to run on top of Linux OS. Software is created using GCC, GDB & similar such GNU software development enabling tools. OpenEmbedded & Bitbake is also used for the build process and that is a bit quirky initially .... took me a lot of time to understand its working and then got swapped out to non-Bitbake project only to loose touch. Product is mostly built on top of MIPS/ARM type core ASIC. This is type of work i am involved with.

Was made to move from Waterfall model to AGILE Scrum type development model. Now manager wants us to move to Kanban type development model. Scrum looked good ... with iterative bursts of development over 2-3 weeks followed by the accompanying build ... but Manager wants me to work on multiple projects at same time !!!!. I told my manager that this wont work at all because scrum is possible only when doing one project at a time. Manager did not respond back properly. Life @ Work sucks !

nandakumar · Post by **nandakumar** » 02 May 2014 13:37

For the ITVity folks. Here is a link to a hilarious article on what goes on in the world of programming. Here is a sample:

For example, say you're an average web developer. You're familiar with a dozen programming languages, tons of helpful libraries, standards, protocols, what have you. You still have to learn more at the rate of about one a week, and remember to check the hundreds of things you know to see if they've been updated or broken and make sure they all still work together and that nobody fixed the bug in one of them that you exploited to do something you thought was really clever one weekend when you were drunk. You're all up to date, so that's cool, then everything breaks.
"Double you tee eff?" you say, and start hunting for the problem. You discover that one day, some idiot decided that since another idiot decided that 1/0 should equal infinity, they could just use that as a shorthand for "Infinity" when simplifying their code. Then a non-idiot rightly decided that this was idiotic, which is what the original idiot should have decided, but since he didn't, the non-idiot decided to be a dick and make this a failing error in his new compiler. Then he decided he wasn't going to tell anyone that this was an error, because he's a dick, and now all your snowflakes are urine and you can't even find the cat.
http://stilldrinking.org/programming-sucks

Yogi_G · Post by **Yogi_G** » 02 May 2014 14:09

.Net has tools for converting umanaged code based DLLs to managed assemblies, BTW.

sum · Post by **sum** » 08 May 2014 08:13

^^ One pooch to well travelled and seasoned maulanas:

I might soon get a offer from a Korean giant for a position in their Korean office. I am not too aware of what kind of salaries and perks are to be considered a bare minimum and how to ensure im not "duped" with some very low salary offer.

Could any maulanas throw some light and also about way of life in SoKo( esp for a Desi) and the approx cost of living/month in that country?

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 02 Jun 2014 23:11

Agile is the "empire strikes back" - a ploy to take the coding part back to US/Europe by the gora programmers cabal.
Desi service companies will go along till the foreign customer's realize how costly the whole thing is and then slink back to a hybrid model.

negi · Post by **negi** » 02 Jun 2014 23:33

Singha wrote:netz is a co which also bypassed the C++/OO "revolution" nearly totally except in some smaller acquisitions. pretty much 100% of routers and switches are C + assembly and will continue to be so.

That is true for all companies which make brick and mortar kind of products or products that form the backbone of the IT infra; similarly moment you go up a couple of layers towards the presentation side of things OO languages specially Java have a virtual monopoly there. Even in case of Netz I won't be surprised if the admin/monitoring utilities or consoles are developed using J2SE and require a JVM to run . Actually even in the data side of things when performance matters C is the language of choice (ADA and stuff might be used in MIL industry) even in my KB where we only deal with data integration the core platform is written in C however everything else is Java.

C still seems to be English of ITVTY world both machines as well as business(humans) seem to agree on it rest of the languages on either side are simply not understood by the other party