Indian IT Industry

vivek_v · Post by **vivek_v** » 19 Dec 2014 17:35

@Singha

Same here. Never thought the Discreet math, Linear algebra, Design and Analysis of algorithm paper and Machine learning was so useful. Realized it 7 years late and needed to re-read the whole thing again.

At-least if i had read all those properly during graduate days, would have got better grades at-least

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2014 19:00

I got good grades without knowing real use cases.
I was a Indic style exam passing machine.

Theeran · Post by **Theeran** » 19 Dec 2014 21:24

saravana wrote:Singha, signed up for that, thanks. If you are interested in Python, have a look here;
http://www.pythonlearn.com/

Thanks. I'm in BI and I have been meaning to look at Python and R. This is a good site to start.

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 19 Dec 2014 21:30

^^ Coursera has an R course going on right now. It is in 3rd week. If you want to access just the lecture you could still do it. Though I haven't done it yet.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Dec 2014 21:32

When insane pressure of exams Indian style is not there one can enjoy the subject much better. Time pressure kills it for me. I work steadily and pace myself. One can also take risks now in thought as well as in deed. What do you have to loose?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 19 Dec 2014 22:51

yeah we are much better placed now with internet on tap, lots of materials and some time and motivation(survival) to unlearn what needs to be unlearned and relearn/redo things the proper way.
i will use that python website in concert with oreilly books. have put learning python as one of my annual goals in official KB goal settings tool.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 19 Dec 2014 23:26

saravana wrote:^^ Coursera has an R course going on right now. It is in 3rd week. If you want to access just the lecture you could still do it. Though I haven't done it yet.

I completed it Saar. It is decent. I am doing the next one called "Cleaning Data". I also am reading a book on R which would cover everything.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 19 Dec 2014 23:30

matrimc wrote:When insane pressure of exams Indian style is not there one can enjoy the subject much better. Time pressure kills it for me. I work steadily and pace myself. One can also take risks now in thought as well as in deed. What do you have to loose?

You are so right. In school, I learned a lot of math and we did it just for exams and to get anEngg seat. No one cared about learning of why the F we did a dy/dx. Or what it really meant. These days when I get a chance, I read some basic level books, and feel that I learn so much and it is actually fun.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 20 Dec 2014 10:57

more dhoti shiber material.

remember the old days when someone had a coupon they didnt want. so a mail would be sent to all, asking who wants to buy at cost price or slight discount and FCFS.

now in my friends co (juniper) he was saying the demand for such coupons got so much, people are aping google and sending along a puzzle also. whoever solves the puzzle is eligible to FCFS queue for the coupon else not.

negi · Post by **negi** » 22 Dec 2014 00:22

Singha wrote:I got good grades without knowing real use cases.
I was a Indic style exam passing machine.

We all are in same boat, hell I topped my school in mathematics and as per my own assessment I am by no means good in maths (I did manage to save my H&D in math olympiad as well ) but to be brutally honest Maths still scares me I was more at home with Physics although people can argue that how can one know physics without knowing maths.

negi · Post by **negi** » 22 Dec 2014 00:24

Singha wrote: now in my friends co (juniper) he was saying the demand for such coupons got so much, people are aping google and sending along a puzzle also. whoever solves the puzzle is eligible to FCFS queue for the coupon else not.

Coupon as in flight upgrade or hotel suite upgrade ? Those things are relevant only to Khan land right ? SDREs never give away such things for free.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 22 Dec 2014 09:05

I dont think its free even there, but suppose you have shop coupon for baby undies dont want to use as unmarried munna ubergeek. some parent might find a use for it if you sell at a slight discount.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 22 Dec 2014 23:52

SaiK wrote:i would choose an 80-20 offer over kean offer.

80 consultant keeps 20 for the body shop? Kean offers 90-10? How can they stay in business? I thought only very small mom n pop body shops only can do that. Looks like all of them got consolidated out of e-xistence after their illegal ways have been looked into and the scoff-laws punished (and their assets - long and short term) are taken away in the settlement with the gotus and GoI.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 Dec 2014 00:03

yupaddi yup.. korporate amirkhaan land is hard core corrupt.. as corrupt as any desi babu giri can do., but much much tfta! body shoppers only pocket the consulting-transaction and pay packet deal. they care a heck what you deliver. dunno, much about the 90-10 walas, as the negotiation with such guys mostly will end up only in big time contracts - like it is really worth for these proxy services to get the money, and scratch their honeysuckle dealers, the first cut orgs.

anything beyond 140-180 bucks per hour might make sense for the 90-10. The 80-20 deal makes perfect sense, in that the 20 gives them enough room to scratch their sucker-backers... lot of trade and bartering, and even hex-nut exchanges who knows - it does happen in niche areas, gov consulting, contracts, especially massan laws stipulates big gov contracts be distributed to 8A kompanies that include wimmen orgs, vetrans etc. the gov consulting deals are big time hex jobbers. i have heard wow-wow stories. can't prove though.

Mukesh.Kumar · Post by **Mukesh.Kumar** » 23 Dec 2014 00:48

Saikgaru what was that you said. Was a tangent to me. Please beam it down to single SDRE ingleez

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Dec 2014 04:13

I think what he meant was for big contracts there is enough scale and padding for the vendor to survive on a 10% of whatever is billed and contractor keeps 90%.

with a $1 trillion defence budget, 1000s of vendors, 100s of major contracts I can only imagine the lucrative scene in defence product and services contracting. plus there is a huge swathe of it off limits to foreign cos and only local outfits with security clearances may feast at the feeding trough.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 23 Dec 2014 04:38

went for lunch today with my former landlord in blr a phd who has worked in america many yrs now.

his experience just shows how deeply the chinese govt and society is burning with a desire to be #1 and compete worldwide in every segment.
he used to work for a major medical device and dianostic eqpt maker HQ in europe. they have had a china operation for many years. at some point
a bunch of the local leadership left and formed their own venture with overt or covert support of the govt who wanted a national brand to own tech and compete with the top german/japanese/american cos. they already have product many competing product now.
meantime back in america, the parent co closed some teams, left some market segments and while retaining my friends team, did not give them much work. the chinese co now approaches them as a group and offers them to start and lead the american r&d office of the co , do research , interface with the engg team back in china and a guaranteed employment of 'n' yrs. so my friend and his entire group leaves and now runs the american office in bay area here, doing prototypes, patents, research for the latest products which the engg teams execute.

he says makes frequent trips there and is impressed by the deft mix of engg, sciences people they have gathered not just code coolies but people in maths, physics, chemistry, plastics, material science, textiles, mechanical, electrical and what not...with a burning desire to build world class product.

he says in contrast there is not one single medical device maker in india competing at the high or even the medium end.

---
forget complex stuff like CT scanners, even in the area of precision lab tools there are hardly any reputable indian suppliers. my wife does a lot of POs for her lab and when it comes to a electronic balance that can measure into tiny fractions of a gm or a proper microscope its all japani/korean/german kit, or a indian trader fronting for them and providing local service.

china continues to absorb tech like a vacuum, innovate based on top of that, build scale, build human resources at a rate unprecedented and fully paralleling the rise of japan and america as industrial powers that could challenge western europe in the past.
in the bay area itself you can spot numerous groups of chinese business delegations moving around doing stuff.

meantime a gori runner i met was proudly saying her daughter knows how to read and write mandarin.

kenop · Post by **kenop** » 24 Dec 2014 19:15

Just how serious are the layoffs in the IT companies.
I had got to know of a US MNC layoff plans from an affected person.
Indian IT companies thing have escaped me as there were no signs coming with all of them reporting good results and stock market looking pink and fine. No report of slow-down etc. Wonder what is driving this really.

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Dec 2014 02:14

GD they say that Pfizer's R&D now is pretty much outsourced to Chipanda.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 25 Dec 2014 11:00

Singha wrote:went for lunch today with my former landlord in blr a phd who has worked in america many yrs now.

his experience just shows how deeply the chinese govt and society is burning with a desire to be #1 and compete worldwide in every segment.
he used to work for a major medical device and dianostic eqpt maker HQ in europe. they have had a china operation for many years. at some point
a bunch of the local leadership left and formed their own venture with overt or covert support of the govt who wanted a national brand to own tech and compete with the top german/japanese/american cos. they already have product many competing product now.
meantime back in america, the parent co closed some teams, left some market segments and while retaining my friends team, did not give them much work. the chinese co now approaches them as a group and offers them to start and lead the american r&d office of the co , do research , interface with the engg team back in china and a guaranteed employment of 'n' yrs. so my friend and his entire group leaves and now runs the american office in bay area here, doing prototypes, patents, research for the latest products which the engg teams execute.

he says makes frequent trips there and is impressed by the deft mix of engg, sciences people they have gathered not just code coolies but people in maths, physics, chemistry, plastics, material science, textiles, mechanical, electrical and what not...with a burning desire to build world class product.

he says in contrast there is not one single medical device maker in india competing at the high or even the medium end.

---
forget complex stuff like CT scanners, even in the area of precision lab tools there are hardly any reputable indian suppliers. my wife does a lot of POs for her lab and when it comes to a electronic balance that can measure into tiny fractions of a gm or a proper microscope its all japani/korean/german kit, or a indian trader fronting for them and providing local service.

china continues to absorb tech like a vacuum, innovate based on top of that, build scale, build human resources at a rate unprecedented and fully paralleling the rise of japan and america as industrial powers that could challenge western europe in the past.
in the bay area itself you can spot numerous groups of chinese business delegations moving around doing stuff.

meantime a gori runner i met was proudly saying her daughter knows how to read and write mandarin.

An utterly frightening read!

But then a question arises - where are these so called world class Chinese products?

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 25 Dec 2014 11:42

kenop wrote:Just how serious are the layoffs in the IT companies.
I had got to know of a US MNC layoff plans from an affected person.
Indian IT companies thing have escaped me as there were no signs coming with all of them reporting good results and stock market looking pink and fine. No report of slow-down etc. Wonder what is driving this really.

It has started in TCS; which means that hit list preparation should have finished by now.
There's a lot of speculation going around on designations targeted and the criteria adopted.
Everybody above ITA designation is busy knitting their own kanspiracy theory.

negi · Post by **negi** » 25 Dec 2014 14:06

Neshant wrote:
An utterly frightening read!

But then a question arises - where are these so called world class Chinese products?

Well remember 1950-60s period ? The kind of criticism which made in China label attracts today was heaped on the Japanese in those days and to be honest Japanese did not start churning good quality stuff overnight their initial batch of Toyotas and even cameras could not hold a candle to VWs and Leicas however what happened is Japanese persevered and moved up while the west did not innovate and improvise at the same rate so today made in Japan label is a thing to be proud about , the Chinese could one day be there too.

Even if their high precision machinery or equipment might not have many takers in export market if those things are good enough then they might be using them for domestic use , given the size of China's market that is not a bad thing eventually some of them might break that barrier .

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 25 Dec 2014 20:59

KJo saar, I remember you saying you have done the R course from coursera. Do you recommend any any book for starters? And some book for data analytics in general.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 25 Dec 2014 21:22

saravana wrote:KJo saar, I remember you saying you have done the R course from coursera. Do you recommend any any book for starters? And some book for data analytics in general.

Saar, I am reading this book.
The Art of R Programming: A Tour of Statistical Software Design
By Norman Matloff
https://books.google.com/books?id=o2aLB ... ng&f=false

I found a pdf online. If you want, I can put it in dropbox or something so you can download?. I am at a basic level onleeee.. need to finish this book first before anything else. Maybe we can coordinate with other interesteds so that we pace ourselves and share info?

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 25 Dec 2014 21:24

Virendra wrote:
kenop wrote:Just how serious are the layoffs in the IT companies.
I had got to know of a US MNC layoff plans from an affected person.
Indian IT companies thing have escaped me as there were no signs coming with all of them reporting good results and stock market looking pink and fine. No report of slow-down etc. Wonder what is driving this really.
It has started in TCS; which means that hit list preparation should have finished by now.
There's a lot of speculation going around on designations targeted and the criteria adopted.
Everybody above ITA designation is busy knitting their own kanspiracy theory.

Indian IT scene will suck for as long as we do coolie work for the khans. We need to move into creating products that we don't need khans for. Reduce "come here because we are cheap" model.

RamaY · Post by **RamaY** » 25 Dec 2014 21:25

KJo wrote:
saravana wrote:KJo saar, I remember you saying you have done the R course from coursera. Do you recommend any any book for starters? And some book for data analytics in general.
Saar, I am reading this book.
The Art of R Programming: A Tour of Statistical Software Design
By Norman Matloff
https://books.google.com/books?id=o2aLB ... ng&f=false

I found a pdf online. If you want, I can put it in dropbox or something so you can download?. I am at a basic level onleeee.. need to finish this book first before anything else. Maybe we can coordinate with other interesteds so that we pace ourselves and share info?

How big is the PDFs? Is it mailable, if so RamaY dot brf at gokul pls. I am taking the R programming course now

Comer · Post by **Comer** » 25 Dec 2014 21:40

KJo, pliss to drop a mail to brf dot saravana at geemale daat kaam. I intend to buy this physical copy because pdf never works for me

. We can still coordinate our mission.
Singha also planned to do study full marathon. I guess right now he is busy exploring Massa. Any update saar?

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 25 Dec 2014 21:49

Ghazis, on popular demand onleee, I have put the Holy R Qitaab in my dropbox.

It is only 5 MB.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/459 ... amming.pdf

Download and I will keep it there for a few days.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Dec 2014 01:19

Is it the same Prof. Matloff who goes on and on about how H1Bs are taking away American jobs?

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 26 Dec 2014 03:21

matrimc wrote:Is it the same Prof. Matloff who goes on and on about how H1Bs are taking away American jobs?

Hmm you are right. It is him. Though I was earlier unaware that he had written such articles, but I looked him up now.

negi · Post by **negi** » 26 Dec 2014 04:01

As an American it is ok to have anti H1 B sentiments, as long as views do not borderline on hatred it is ok ; people who get to a greener pasture first always resent those who arrive after them. Remember likes of Matloff are only protecting what their forefathers annexed by eradicating an entire race .

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Dec 2014 04:25

negi: Prof. Matloff turns into borderline hate (of course, that depends on where one draws the border). it is non in line with the capitalist competitive spirit the US economic system is founded on. That said, some feel - IMHO correctly so - that views similar to his are only the beginning of raising trade barriers and can end only in disaster for the US.

What he should contend with is people like Stallman. He was asked whether open source software would kill the innovative spirit of "starving" geniuses, his answer purportedly was "they are neither starving nor are they geniuses". Note "starving" is used in a loose sense, i.e. hungry for work.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 26 Dec 2014 04:58

Talking about H1B, I can understand how people like him feel. In India we are no better. In Karnataka we hate Tamilians taking up "our" jobs. In Maharashtra, they hate Biharis for taking up "their" jobs. Let's be honest, we do it to our own people. They are doing it to foreigners. If whites came to India and took up the top paying jobs, we would be lynching them.

The H1Bs who come to the US definitely do drive down the salaries here which is what people are unhappy with. The come in hordes and in my personal experience, they have ruined the work atmosphere. My wife now works in a place with HCL Tech in there and she now sees what I experienced with TCS people.

Sorry, no offense onlee, but I can't lie just because they are my countrymen (and women).

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 26 Dec 2014 05:38

KJo: Yes, there is no argument about what you say. The need to tighten rules is there from all sides. That sai, the US cannot enjoy the grabbing resources from all over forever. They will have to give back and the only way they can do it is to reduce spending on defence. For example if they have a border in the south as free as the border in the north, exactly how would anybody suffer? Mexicans are doing jobs no American is willing to do. If these illegals are brought into the tax system, the base will increase. One has to deal with drugs and related cartels and crime though.

Virendra · Post by **Virendra** » 26 Dec 2014 20:00

KJo wrote:The H1Bs who come to the US definitely do drive down the salaries here which is what people are unhappy with. The come in hordes and in my personal experience, they have ruined the work atmosphere. My wife now works in a place with HCL Tech in there and she now sees what I experienced with TCS people.
Sorry, no offense onlee, but I can't lie just because they are my countrymen (and women).

Could you please expand on this part KJo ji.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 26 Dec 2014 20:17

matrimc wrote:KJo: Yes, there is no argument about what you say. The need to tighten rules is there from all sides. That sai, the US cannot enjoy the grabbing resources from all over forever. They will have to give back and the only way they can do it is to reduce spending on defence. For example if they have a border in the south as free as the border in the north, exactly how would anybody suffer? Mexicans are doing jobs no American is willing to do. If these illegals are brought into the tax system, the base will increase. One has to deal with drugs and related cartels and crime though.

I agree with what you say, but that is at the national level and you are right about that.
I am talking about the Everyday Eddie level. What does he see? He sees Steve and John getting laid off and Raju, Ravi and Sunder hired in as contractors. You cannot expect Everyday Eddie to be rational and think in terms of free market economics or geo-political realities when his livelihood is at stake. He is just worried about his brother or his friend. Just like we would be. If everybody had jobs in plenty, this feeling would be very much reduced, but everything is in short supply.

All I am saying is we should avoid using "whites stole Amreeka from native desis" as a justification to be insensitive. Using such perverse logic, Pakis would be justified to fly the Hara Jhanda over Laal Qila saying "their ancestor" Shah Jahan built it and "they" ruled Hindustan since 1000AD. We laugh at this Paki logic.

Viru saar, what elaboration are you asking for? I think it is quite clear. I suffered a bad environment at PeechaKaro Co when a horde of TCS Tamils from Chennai (mostly Christian) came in and behaved like school kids yammering in Tamil all the time and loudly too. My wife just began working at a large healthcare co which has HCL Tech and that is a Telugu strong hold. She's having trouble demanding her lead person speak to everybody in English so she can understand. He insists in talking to everyone in Telugu. My wife had to raise halla and he finally relented. Most of the other ladies there are Telugu but some aren't.

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 26 Dec 2014 20:37

The part that salary for whites reducing because of TCS guys is wrong. In fact a TCS or Infosys guy gets on hand $4000 a month whereas even Directors dont get that much.

Theeran · Post by **Theeran** » 26 Dec 2014 21:35

TKiran wrote:The part that salary for whites reducing because of TCS guys is wrong. In fact a TCS or Infosys guy gets on hand $4000 a month whereas even Directors dont get that much.

That is crazy. Directors are way above that pay grade atleast in my company (1000+ employees, 5 H1bs total).

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 27 Dec 2014 02:26

Fresh BS CS from my uni. are getting >= $65K (pre-tax). After SS and Tax make it $4K in hand. These are fresh out of school. But this place is in one of the top five in various engg. disciplines though of late it had been slipping.
Director level people would have had at 10-15 yrs experience post BS and budgetary responsibilities. I tend to think that their salaries would be $90K+. This would be in SW development of course.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 27 Dec 2014 03:27

KJo wrote: I suffered a bad environment at PeechaKaro Co when a horde of TCS Tamils from Chennai (mostly Christian) came in and behaved like school kids yammering in Tamil all the time and loudly too. My wife just began working at a large healthcare co which has HCL Tech and that is a Telugu strong hold. She's having trouble demanding her lead person speak to everybody in English so she can understand. He insists in talking to everyone in Telugu. My wife had to raise halla and he finally relented. Most of the other ladies there are Telugu but some aren't.

One of my previous employer had hired a bunch of contractors from Quebec. There were about 15 in total plus we had a bunch of folks from Brazil as well at our facility since they were our client. The Brazilians spoke in Portugese among themselves (even in meetings when we were there) and the Quebec folks spoke in loud French among themselves. Of course, both the Brazilians & Quebec folks used to speak to us in English but when among themselves it was always in their native language.

Similarly, one of our client was a S Korean firm and their employees at our facility always spoke in Korean among themselves.

Is there any clause that contractors on-site should speak only English? As long as they are conveying work related information to client (your wife) in a lucid & understandable format i.e. English, I fail to see why they should be forebade to speak in their native language among themselves.