Indian Civil Police & Police Investigations Thread

member_28533 · Post by **member_28533** » 10 Apr 2015 08:05

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMe0Ta7pzz8

(translation)

Gangi Reddy is the illegal red sandlewood smuggling kingpin.

Made 100s of crores with smuggling and paid off local politicians.

Took off for Mauritius as soon as TDP govt came to power.

But got arrested and currently languishing in jail in Mauritius (invisible dove at work perhaps).

YSR Congress (erstwhile cong) leaders from Kadapa district in particular are fearing will be extradited to India. He is supposed to have funded their election campaigns. (YS Jagan must be having sleepless nights and pumping money into civil liberties, 5 star activists and their surprising allies/useful idiots - the Tamil chauvinists - who are playing into the hands of these cunning anti-national forces)

vishvak · Post by **vishvak** » 10 Apr 2015 08:58

So Naxals are connected to south-east Asia, and probably China, too. The naxal movement has turned into something altogether for sure.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 10 Apr 2015 09:59

Good that details are coming out. Thanks mchilianji.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 10 Apr 2015 10:08

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil_nadu/More-Evidence-on-Pre-arrest-Punches-Holes-in-Encounter/2015/04/10/article2756993.ece

A day after a man claimed that seven of the 20 gunned down in an alleged encounter with red sander loggers in Seshachalam, were actually picked up by the Andhra Police from a bus bound for Tirupati hours before the incident, another person on that bus corroborated his version.

He too was hired for woodcutting, though the purpose was not mentioned to him upfront, claimed Balakrishnan, who hails from Chittari.

Balakrishnan thanks his weakness for liquor for escaping the fake encounter that happened in Andhra Pradesh in the wee hours of Tuesday. He claims he got down from the bus in which eight others hired for woodcutting were traveling, of which seven were arrested while one of them, Sekar of Polur taluk, narrowly escaped police attention.

Balakrishnan says he was contacted by Palani, a resident of Jawadhu Hills, for a job in a brick kiln in Andhra Pradesh for a better salary. Palani was among those who was on the bus and was eventually killed in the fake encounter.

Trusting Palani, eight persons from Chittari hills went to Javadhu Hills in Thiruvannamalai on Sunday evening. We stayed in Palani’s house in Jawathu hills on Sunday night. “We left on Monday. As I wanted to have liquor, I got down in Kannamangalam. An hour later, when I called Palani, he asked me come to Tirupati tomorrow. So I returned to Jawathu Hills. After a few hours, Palani called in to say they were arrested by the Andhra Police.”

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 10 Apr 2015 10:37

http://www.newindianexpress.com/states/tamil_nadu/Agent-Bait-Turned-Out-to-be-Deathtrap-Families/2015/04/10/article2757016.ece

TIRUVANNAMALAI: Mahendran (22), one of the victims from Tiruvannamalai killed in an alleged encounter by Andhra Pradesh’s Red Sanders Anti-Smuggling Task Force, had nurtured aspirations to become a policeman.

The youth had applied to the Tamil Nadu Special Police Youth Brigade, according to his family and close friends. Mahendran was one of seven others from Murugapadi, Kalasamuthiram and Vettagiripalayam village who were picked up by AP cops on a bus en-route to Tirupathi, according to relatives. “Mahendran applied to the Youth Brigade and was also looking hard to get a job. He was earlier working as a plumber in a private firm in Sholinganallur at Chennai,” said Mahendran’s childhood friend Kumar.

Relatives of Palani, another victim in the shootout and who was the father of a 40-day male child, said they were not aware that he had fallen prey to the Red Sanders gang. He had completed his B.Ed and had worked as a teacher in a few schools in the vicinity for three years. He had opted out of the teaching job due to poor pay and switched over to the profession of tailoring, which also did not give enough earnings to support his family. “(Palani) told me that he was going to buy thread on Monday afternoon and left,” said his father Velu. Palani’s 21 year-old wife Loganayaki was sitting with their newborn child, an uncertain future looming large.
Patchaiammal,(21), wife of another victim, Murthy of Murugapadi, said that they celebrated their first wedding anniversary on Feb 2. The couple have a 4-month-old girl. Despite owning an acre of land, poor rain and drought forced him to be a farm worker. He also worked as a server in marriage halls.

All these relatives of the victims hold one Venkatesan of Pudur, an agent of a Red Sanders gang responsible for the deaths. “Venkatesan met with Murthy, several of the victims and convinced them to take up woodcutting for better pay. He even told them that they would be working in government-permitted areas and it involves no risk,” claimed Murthy’s relatives.

Murugan, father of two children aged three and four, and Sasikumar (yet another victim of the shootout), both from Vettagiripalayam, were painters and were good friends. Their families claimed that they did not know anything till the police knocked on their doors on Tuesday evening with the photos of their bodies.

Close shave

45-year-old Sekar (in pic) of Murgapadi narrowly escaped death as he was not arrested by AP cops while travelling with seven other victims on a bus

kvjayan · Post by **kvjayan** » 10 Apr 2015 20:18

But, the TN govt. did not pay any compensation when the police barged into a house in the southern suburbs of Chennai a few years ago and killed a few migrant workers (from Bihar, may be) labelled as "bank robbers". Of course, the police acted in self defence and amma was praised to the sky for eliminating the menace of bank robbery. And now amma does not believe that the AP police acted in self defence.

arshyam wrote:^^ Time for a CBI investigation? Or, at least the re-post-mortem should be done by central authorities, as both states are touchy about each other in such circumstances, and neutrality will always be disputed. If BRF has so many arguments, imagine what will pass for arguments outside .

[Added later] I still maintain the TN govt jumped the gun on announcing compensation before ascertaining more facts. They could have waited a week after announcing that they will do an investigation first. This sort of announcing compensation immediately sets off the wrong kind of precedent. But, of course, why should OP care about this: ithu enna avar veettu kaasa, kasakkarthukku?

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Apr 2015 02:16

1. just because TN police have done killings does not mean AP police can also kill and nobody should ask anything.

2. there is CCTV and other evidence that they were indeed the bank robbers.

the AP police have shown nothing that linked these dead to the ones who killed police before.

Again, this thrashing about is pathetic. all yall have NOTHING so far other than false equivalencies and appeals to authorities. NOTHING.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Apr 2015 02:20

go ahead..brand those who raise legitimate questions as "little less than those who support terrorists"

one person has already made the analogy to indian army killing pakis.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Apr 2015 02:30

the primary question, as i mentioned earlier as well, is - did the police shoot in self-defense or not?

earlier it was being claimed so. now i see people who said that try the other argument "but they were criminals anyway", "but tamil nadu itself does encounters like this", "why are you asking, are you a traitor, liberal blah blah"

so - you admit that this is not a clear case of self-defense as claimed early???

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Apr 2015 02:44

http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/file-mur ... ngs-753891

Hyderabad: Andhra Pradesh forest minister B Gopala Krishna Reddy today said the state government has evidence that the 20 men killed in police action in Chittoor this week "were habitual offenders" in trading red sandalwood illegally.

"They were smugglers, not woodcutters," the minister told NDTV, alleging that some of those killed had police records. He pointed out that one man, Govindan Rajendran, had been arrested in May 2013 for allegedly smuggling red sanders and was released on bail.

The state police is scanning 2000 cases and records of over 12,000 people to compare with those who were killed in Tuesday's encounter to establish criminal antecedents. They have also sent teams to Tamil Nadu.

other than tn chauvinist parties like mdmk, pmk, etc - nobody (at least me personally) is disputing that these people were probably regularly involved in cutting trees illegally. they also probably knew that it was illegal. that much is certain.

what is NOT proven YET is

1- these people who are dead now, were the ones involved in attacking/killing police before

2. these people who are dead now, were attacking police and were shot in self-defense.

until we have answers to these two, everything else is obfuscation and posturing on both AP folks who want to cover this up and TN assorted idiots who want to use this to get some 'tamil protectors' credit. and human rights activists who can use this to get some coverage.

KLNMurthy · Post by **KLNMurthy** » 11 Apr 2015 02:59

mchilian wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMe0Ta7pzz8

(translation)

Gangi Reddy is the illegal red sandlewood smuggling kingpin.

Made 100s of crores with smuggling and paid off local politicians.

Took off for Mauritius as soon as TDP govt came to power.

But got arrested and currently languishing in jail in Mauritius (invisible dove at work perhaps).

YSR Congress (erstwhile cong) leaders from Kadapa district in particular are fearing will be extradited to India. He is supposed to have funded their election campaigns. (YS Jagan must be having sleepless nights and pumping money into civil liberties, 5 star activists and their surprising allies/useful idiots - the Tamil chauvinists - who are playing into the hands of these cunning anti-national forces)

From the Wikipedia page for Red Sanders:

Lumber[edit]
Due to its slow growth and rarity, furniture made from zitan is difficult to find and can be expensive.[6] It has been one of the most prized woods for millennia.

The wood has historically been valued in China, particularly during the Qing Dynasty periods, and is referred to in Chinese as zitan (紫檀) and spelt tzu-t'an by earlier western authors such Gustav Ecke, who introduced classical Chinese hardwood furniture to the west.[7]

In India sandalwood is one main and lucrative market for smugglers, as a high price is paid for this wood in China. Since, the exporting of sandalwood in India, the underground market is growing and there are a number of arrests every year of those trying to smuggle this wood to China.

The indiscriminate and barbaric appetite of the Chinese for Indic flora and fauna--ivory, tiger penis, rhino horn, Red Sanders etc.--has caused huge ecological damage, species endangerment and extinction, and social disruption in India. Some species of rhino are almost gone, and tigers will go soon. If we don't act on a war footing, Red Sanders and much of the forest cover of the South will go.

We need to find proper and fitting remedies for the problem and not get our heads stuck in imported law enforcement tracks whose only recommending feature is that they have been inherited from the British.

Pterocarpus santalinus is listed as an Endangered species by the IUCN, because of overexploitation for its timber in South India.

Some of these Red Sanders smugglers have grown wealthy and powerful from unchecked activities over time, to the extent of developing private armies and political influence. Traditional police methods of investigation and arrest may not be applicable when trying to put an end to this enormously damaging activity. It is a form of waging war against the country and its lawful authority.

It is not an Andhra vs. Tamil issue. Are these criminals going to respect state boundaries? At stake is the forest cover of Eastern Ghats that stretches from Srisailam all the way to Palakkad, covering Andhra, Tamil Nadu, Karnataka and Kerala.

In the 1990s, the notorious Veerappan carried out his depredations in Tamilnadu-Karnataka area, till he was killed by Tamil Nadu police (not before he killed many policemen).

Death[edit]
On 18 October 2004, Veerappan and two of his associates were killed by the Tamil Nadu Special Task Force headed by K Vijay Kumar. The killing happened near the village of Papparapatti[25][31] in Dharmapuri district, Tamil Nadu. Veerappan and his men were lured into an ambulance by an undercover policeman under the pretext of taking them to Dharmapuri for medical treatment.[31] The Tamil Nadu Special Task Force, which had been observing his movements for several months, surrounded the ambulance, and the gangsters were killed in the ensuing gun battle.[25] The entire operation was named Operation Cocoon and Veerappan's associates Sethukuli Govinda, Chandre Gowda and Sethumani were also killed in the operation.[27] His death was described as the "death of a demon" by The Guardian.[2] The villagers of Gopinatham celebrated with firecrackers on hearing the news.[10] Since Veerappan's death, the village has been promoted as a destination for ecotourism by the Karnataka State Department of Forest and Tourism.[32]

The law needs to be updated to deal with this form of eco-mafiosi. Organized crime is one of the hardest things to properly protect civilized society from; it is that much harder when the victims are "only trees" or "only animals." Police "encounters" are a way of solving the problem (poorly) outside an inadequate or poorly-designed law.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Apr 2015 11:03

Veerappan case is a case of genuine encounter where Joint STF of TN and Ktk police tracked his gang over long periods. He was knwon to be lethal, volatile and murderous. He killed many officials and informers(suspected) villagers numbering to staggering 184 before he could be traced and confronted. He was kingpin of the entire ivory trade in TN. elevated to something of a folk hero during later period which made task of police difficult. STF chief of TN Water Davaram and Vijayakumar were known for their efficient policing and become a hero by ending this menace.There is no comparison with that case and the present "encounter".

"Encounters" are never going to solve any problem. Such tendencies should not be encouraged. If there is genuine encounter where criminals resort to force and firing adequate counter force ( comes by training not by reading manuals) is used then one can not question it. But twenty "labourers" killed in encounter seems a bit too much just as killing five in a flat in Vellacherry Chennai suburbs by TN police seemed excessive force though none of the brfites questioned it , to my knowledge. In this incident , AP police was not able to nab one single person unhurt or hurt nor a single firearms recovered from the site. I mean the fleeing persons had enough time amid hail of billets of AP police that they collected almost all weapons except one of two which was shown as proof.

"Encounters" are a way for police to hide its failure to do proper investigation and bringing the culprits to the logical conclusion. In time ordinary citizens could also be staring at the wrong end of the barrel like what happened toa Businessmen in a car in CP New Delhi long Back.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 11 Apr 2015 11:08

chaanakya wrote:Veerappan case is a case of genuine encounter where Joint STF of TN and Ktk police tracked his gang over long periods. He was knwon to be lethal, volatile and murderous. He killed many officials and informers(suspected) villagers numbering to staggering 184 before he could be traced and confronted.

Veerappan's case also had some unique aspects. Even though when the "encounter" did happen, there were very active rumours that it was staged. People were even saying that dear old Veeru, had been picked up two days back, beaten black & blue and forced to spill out the names of all DMK politicians involved with him. Amma was ruling the state, and Vijayakumar was known as a very trusted deputy of hers.But:-
1. The fact that Veerappan was a dreaded criminal was pretty much established.
2. The TN police officially "lied low" for quite a while, but very meticulously cultivated a network of informers in Veeru's territory. It was even rumoured that many of the small time shop keepers etc. were actually TN Police CIDs.
3. And when they went for the kill, TN Police ensured that there is no collateral damage. The entire operation did not involve large number of people, nor was there any police atrocities before or after the event. And Veeru's past history ensured that he gets no sympathies.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 11 Apr 2015 11:28

Anyone calling Encounters by Police are bad have zilch knowledge of lives of policemen. The amount of stress from daily threats from political crooks and criminals and the amount of corruption inside the police force itself. Our system is not perfect and Modi cannot fix 65 years of rot in 5 years.
As I said earlier Encounters are like abortions. Nobody likes them but it is inevitable sometimes.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Apr 2015 11:32

Police are stressed so go kill citizens. Good argument you have. You should be the first to meet such a stressed policeman.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 11 Apr 2015 11:54

Arguing like Sardesai or Karan Thapar will not give any solution.
First step to effective treatment is to understand the disease and NOT the patient. Focus on the disease please!! Empathy for patient is good but will not help us to save the patient.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Apr 2015 11:59

Well you argue like SS Rathi. Great going for you.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 11 Apr 2015 12:13

Yeah, Blame the doctor for botched up operation!!
Like we are a super advanced species having 100% success rate in saving people.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Apr 2015 12:14

Keep it up.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 11 Apr 2015 12:44

My uncle (my fathers cousin brother) was a police inspector was killed by an axe hit behind his head while sleeping in the police station in a remote area by naxals. He never carried out any encounter etc. In fact he was known for not taking any actions against naxals etc. He was killed to create fear in police. He had a girl to marry and two sons in college. Very close to me and my sisters. Perhaps we need to understand the condition of police faced with hundreds of people axes and swords etc in a dense forest area. May be serve on them summons to appear before nearest magistrate? People of the district I have spoken speak of huge activity with hundreds of people doing this tree cutting etc illegally and earlier incidents of attacks on forest and police officials which even resulted in their fatalities.

It is the same gang which idealize L.T.T.E. and Prabhakaran and we are bent upon believing them and also the paid media. Just wait and see full facts come out. I have no faith in National Human Rights commission headed by Balakrishnana - remember him? Congress man from Kerala? It never woke up when hundreds of thousands of people have become refuges in Assam quite recently but ready to issue notice to AP.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 11 Apr 2015 12:49

http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/tamil-nadu/victim-dragged-out-of-bus-eyewitness/article7090064.ece?homepage=true

The trauma on the fateful night of April 5 recalled

In a dramatic disclosure that might cast doubts on the theory of Andhra Pradesh police, an eyewitness told The Hindu here on Friday that he had witnessed the police in plainclothes dragging away his friend Mahendran, one of the alleged woodcutters who was shot dead in the Seshachalam forest near Tirupati on April 7.

R. Sekar of Kandamangalam in Tiruvannamalai district, recalled how the 21-year-old Mahendran was forcibly taken away from the bus on the night of April 5, which was proceeding from Tiruvannamalai to Tirupati.

He said, a couple of days ago Mahendran approached him saying that there was a masonry job to be done. He had accepted the offer and agreed to go along with him.

Four others (all masons), who were also engaged by Mahendran, were in the bus.

“I was seated next to a woman. Suddenly, sometime past midnight, the bus came to a halt at an unscheduled place. A well-built person stepped in (speaking in Telugu) and dragged Mahendran out of the vehicle. Shocked, but scared, I kept quiet….”

“Not knowing what to do, I returned home the following day as I had just Rs 200 with me. On reaching home, I informed Mahendran’s mother about the incident at 6 a.m. In the course of the day, news broke on April 7 that the AP police had killed many woodcutters and Mahendran was one among them.

Legal support
When contacted, People’s Watch executive director Henri Tiphagne said the eyewitness would be accorded all legal support by People’s Watch. Safety of such people is of paramount importance as the evidence is crucial.

Even a small link to the case plays a key role in deciding the case when it comes up for trial.

“Our people are working closely with victims’ families and their relatives in Tiruvannamalai district. The eyewitnesses should gain confidence that they would be secure. There is information that they are under threat,” he said.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 11 Apr 2015 13:15

I do not believe anything reported by Chindu etc. Let us wait and see what happens when the matter is fully investigated . AP police are known for "taking care" of naxals in a more "refined" manner. So them doing something as blatant as dragging persons out of bus in front of everyone and then killing him is too much to believed.

Further how someone know a person in civilian cloths is a Police in civilian cloths?

kvjayan · Post by **kvjayan** » 11 Apr 2015 13:46

If there was CCTV and other evidence that they were indeed the bank robbers then they should have been arrested, charged and tried in a court of law to be properly sentenced. One evidence that was provided by the police was the recovery of a shirt of one of the robbers which looked similar to the one found in the CCTV footage/eyewitness accounts.

Gus wrote:1. just because TN police have done killings does not mean AP police can also kill and nobody should ask anything.

2. there is CCTV and other evidence that they were indeed the bank robbers.

the AP police have shown nothing that linked these dead to the ones who killed police before.

Again, this thrashing about is pathetic. all yall have NOTHING so far other than false equivalencies and appeals to authorities. NOTHING.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Apr 2015 14:13

Yagnasri wrote:My uncle (my fathers cousin brother) was a police inspector was killed by an axe hit behind his head while sleeping in the police station in a remote area by naxals. He never carried out any encounter etc. In fact he was known for not taking any actions against naxals etc. He was killed to create fear in police. He had a girl to marry and two sons in college. Very close to me and my sisters. Perhaps we need to understand the condition of police faced with hundreds of people axes and swords etc in a dense forest area. May be serve on them summons to appear before nearest magistrate? People of the district I have spoken speak of huge activity with hundreds of people doing this tree cutting etc illegally and earlier incidents of attacks on forest and police officials which even resulted in their fatalities.

It is the same gang which idealize L.T.T.E. and Prabhakaran and we are bent upon believing them and also the paid media. Just wait and see full facts come out. I have no faith in National Human Rights commission headed by Balakrishnana - remember him? Congress man from Kerala? It never woke up when hundreds of thousands of people have become refuges in Assam quite recently but ready to issue notice to AP.

I have several such cases to narrate. Some incidents also got reported and discussed by brfites here in naxal thread. There have been incidents of killings by smugglers when forest officials ( lower rungs) were challenged by the gangs and killed in some instances.
But that does not detract from the question of ascertaining if it was a genuine or not. Naxals are known to use tactics of gathering in large numbers with adequate firepower to ambush police. There also you don't get such large killings. If the idea was to arrest or disperse or deter large crowd of stone throwing , axe wielding murderous goons they firing which might result in a casualty or two could be justified. Not the excessive force. 20 is by far high number for this type of gang.

I am not sure if you are identifying TN people which venture out of TN as LTTE ( sympathisers). Just as Bihari workers venturing to TN are killed instead of apprehending them and terming them as bank robbers. Because if you catch them as bank robbers they might get maximum 10 years but to execute them is to give death sentence. Likewise for TN labourers.

I am no fan of Balakrishnan but our constitution itself embodies human rights . Remember Habeas corpus. You are a Lawyer, you should know better. Asking report on AP incident is not a crime by NHRC, not asking in case of Assam is dereliction of duty. But can't be justification for not asking in AP incident.

There are well laid out guidelines by Supreme Court on encounter issues. FIR is one such step if unnatural death has happened. Why AP has not yet filed FIR?

One can not use argument of stress or instilling fear by killing to stop some crime or revenge for some policemen being killed in sleep to bump off unrelated and disproportionate number of people found indugling in something which would fetch them up to 10 years, not even death sentence under IPC. It is but a small step from here to killing a innocent walker and old man in some far off country on mere apprehension.Who ever argues for it is a supporter of police state. Beware of such people.

Police , at all times, are authorised to use adequate force and chances are that genuine encounters may happen. but they can not use it as blanket permission to kill anybody in the name of encounter and dress the scene.

And yes we need to see the full facts of the present case though it does not drtract from the general principle enshrined in the constitution

21. Protection of life and personal liberty.
—No person shall be deprived of his life or personal liberty except according to procedure established by law

That is the only thing standing between your life and a bullet by authoritarian state.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Apr 2015 14:29

kvjayan wrote:If there was CCTV and other evidence that they were indeed the bank robbers then they should have been arrested, charged and tried in a court of law to be properly sentenced. One evidence that was provided by the police was the recovery of a shirt of one of the robbers which looked similar to the one found in the CCTV footage/eyewitness accounts.

That is indeed a very very strong and sound legal evidence which can justify the killing of "Bihari bank robbers." But TN Police forgot to mention another strong evidence. They all looked like Bihari, talked like Bihari and walked like Bihari. So they must be bank robbers. Period.

Same in case of TN Labourers. They were all sympathisers of LTTE so deserved to be killed even otherwise. by that standards How many such incidents have to happen to get rid of all TN sympathisers of LTTE. Oh I am not sure if they have to be, additionally, red sander smugglers' workers to be legitimately bumped off.

whatever be the case, we should distinguish between a genuine and a fake encounter. And to do that we need to find full facts. And even if it was not fake encounter, the question must be answered if forced used was adequate or disproportionate or justified. if it was disproportionate then some departmental and criminal proceedings leading to lesser sentence would be in order. if it was fake then minimum would be life. If it is genuine then obviously no punishment.

The police need not fear if it is genuine. No??

Remember the mob justice to a muslim guy accused of rape in NE? many supported here just because he was suspected to be BD. Later it transpired that he was Bro of Indian Army personnel. The rape was like paid consensual sex turned into black mail by the girl who happened to be wifey's cousin.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 11 Apr 2015 15:28

I am not saying that dead are all LTTE people etc. The people shouting are mainly LTTE supporters. So there is no reasons to listen to their words. I did wrote about the need to wait for the details to come out and Magisterial investigation etc to go on. I agree that 20 is a big number and this needed a clear investigation. Media from day one jumped the gun and started to say that it is all murder etc. If an organized mobs attack police then it is possible to get that that many people killed, but as such a huge number is not normal we need to carefully investigate.

There is a tendency to disregard the other people views and to play victim all the time has become regular practice of DMK and such gangs in TN. In other states we have other kinds of politicos and gangs doing the same.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 11 Apr 2015 18:21

Yagnasri wrote:My uncle (my fathers cousin brother) was a police inspector was killed by an axe hit behind his head while sleeping in the police station in a remote area by naxals. He never carried out any encounter etc.

Sad. But there are numerous other instances where the death of police officers were just ignored by the media, the intellectual elite and off course the politicians so that they can keep away from un-pleasent truths. The commies used to gloat about the Punnapra-Vayalar "revolution" which was even considered to be a freedom struggle of sorts. One of the first victims of the "revolution" was Inspector Velayudhan Nadar who had actually stepped out into the crowd to reason with the commie leaders. He was hacked to death. The commies then usually whine about the thrashings they got from the police especially by then then Alappuzha North PS Inspector Sathyanesan Nadar.

Another case was a naxalite being taken to the PS, setting the police jeep on fire and killing a Dy.SP by holding onto him. Both of them succumbed to the injuries. The son of the dead officer too joined the police and is still with K.P.

Just wait and see full facts come out. I have no faith in National Human Rights commission headed by Balakrishnana - remember him? Congress man from Kerala?

What is the term for the NHRC Commission/Chairman? K.G Balakrishnan has been quite controversial, and there were lots of allegations against him, and some his close relatives (Sreenijan et.al) in Kerala. He was pretty much declared as a Congress stooge. But nothing has happened on the allegations against him.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 11 Apr 2015 19:07

chaanakyajis reference to the police killings in Chennai made me look up old Hindu reports.

It seems to have been an encounter killing with official sanction against people identified as dangerous armed robbers.The Police Commissioner at that time was Sri JK Tripathy.

chaanakyji,
Do you think Sri Tripathy was Police Commissioner would make the police action that much more credible?It would be a sad day if decisions will be judged on the surname of the officers concerned.But still asking.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 11 Apr 2015 19:11

In the meanwhile naxal attack police in C'garh and at least 7 died.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Apr 2015 20:46

svenkat wrote:chaanakyajis reference to the police killings in Chennai made me look up old Hindu reports.

It seems to have been an encounter killing with official sanction against people identified as dangerous armed robbers.The Police Commissioner at that time was Sri JK Tripathy.

chaanakyji,
Do you think Sri Tripathy was Police Commissioner would make the police action that much more credible?It would be a sad day if decisions will be judged on the surname of the officers concerned.But still asking.

Does it? if it is a fake encounter would anybody's presence make it more acceptable?

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 11 Apr 2015 20:55

kvijayan and svenkat saars, FWIW, I am posting some reports about that encounter to clear the air up:

Velachery encounter: Forensic evidence validates police claims - S Vijay Kumar, The Hindu

Ballistic and forensic reports in the Velachery police shootout case appear to validate the claims of the Chennai Police that the suspected bank robbers opened fire at them using pistols and revolvers, police sources said on Monday.

While forensic analysis of swabs collected from the hands of five suspects shot dead in the incident confirmed residue of gun powder, ballistic reports established that some bullets seized from the scene were fired from the weapons of the accused. The reports have reached the Crime Branch CID which is investigating the case, the sources said.

The case pertains to the killing of five suspects belonging to Jharkhand and West Bengal by the police at their suspected hideout in Velachery on the night of February 23, 2012.

Police said the suspects were involved in two bank robberies and recovered a portion of the robbed money from their premises. Officials of both the nationalised banks who witnessed the bodies in the mortuary identified the accused.

“Experts have carefully analysed the line or direction of firing from both sides. Considering the nature of injuries and other aspects, reports indicate the accused persons were on the move and not stationary. Going by the statements of local people, police retaliated to the firing,” an investigator told The Hindu.

The police official, whose claims The Hindu was not able to independently verify, requested anonymity because he was not authorised to speak to the media on the matter.

The CBCID is expected to file a status report in the court soon. An enquiry by a Judicial Magistrate is also on into the firing. The bank robbery cases are being investigated by the Chennai Police who maintained that efforts were on to trace the remaining part of the booty and special teams were coordinating with the Bihar and Jharkhand police in that regard.

The sensational bank robberies planned and executed on Mondays (January 23 and February 20) remained without a breakthrough initially and the first tip-off came from video footage recorded in another nationalised bank where the prime suspect in the case, Sujay Kumar Rai alias Vinod Kumar, conducted a recce. Kumar was allegedly involved in major crimes in different States, including three bank dacoities in Mumbai (Maharashtra), the sources said.

The Velachery police firing, which resulted in the largest number of deaths in a single encounter in the State, hit the headlines and ran into controversy after human rights activists dismissed the “exchange of fire” theory of the city police and accused them of stage-managing a “fake encounter.”

Okay, so the above article was quoting sources. So here is a more definitive report:

HC’s clean chit to cops in Velachery encounter - Staff Reporter, The Hindu

Giving a clean chit to the city police in the Velachery encounter case, the Madras High Court on Friday dismissed a batch of petitions that sought the registration of a case of murder against the police personnel involved.

The petition also sought the transfer of the probe to the Central Bureau of Investigation.

On February 23, 2012, five persons, suspected to be bank robbers, were killed by the city police in a shootout in Velachery. Immediately after the incident, public interest litigation petitions were filed in the High Court by activists including P. Pugalenthi, director, Prisoners Rights Forum. They alleged the police did not want to investigate the bank robberies and were bent on killing the suspects.

A division bench comprising Justice Elipe Dharma Rao and Justice Aruna Jagadeesan rejected the petitions and said they were based on hearsay. The petitioners had no personal knowledge or substantive proof on the matter, the Bench said.

Contending it was a clear case of murder committed by police officers, the petitioners alleged that instead of resorting to legal methods of apprehending the accused and bringing them to trial before the court, the police resorted to elimination of the suspects in a fake encounter. Hence, the police officers involved should be booked for murder, they said.

The counsel for the police vehemently argued that police personnel were also human beings and if they opened fire to defend themselves, it could not be brought under the definition of murder.

Rejecting the contentions of the petitioners, the Bench said, “The magistrate report nowhere suggested anything to doubt the veracity of the version of the police. Likewise, another report submitted by the deputy superintendent of police, Police Research Centre, Crime Branch CID, held that the death of the five armed gangsters occurred when they attempted to kill the police personnel, who were taking all efforts to arrest them. The police returned fire in order to protect the lives of the public at large and their own lives.”

The judges said the petitioners were in no way connected with the deceased persons and they had no other material, except media reports, to say the police concocted a story after killing the accused.

Stating that the State government had swiftly transferred the investigation to the Crime Branch-CID, the Bench dismissed another plea for a CBI probe.

“The petitioners are completely third parties to the incident. They cannot be permitted to poke their nose into the investigation under the garb of public interest litigation, that too without any material and knowledge about the same, except hearsay evidence and media reports”, said the Bench.

So there we have it. It was a genuine encounter that happened in self-defence. A certain scene in the film Kakka Kakka comes to mind - when the police try to arrest some kingpin's associates, and they open fire and the police fire back, killing everyone in the hideout. At the moment, comparing the Andhra encounter with the bank robber encounter is futile, given we don't have all the facts visible. Let's wait for the inquiry report.

As far as the bank robbery goes, the during that phase, the entire city was charged by the incidents - armed bank robbery in broad daylight was unheard of. Plus, whatever one may dislike about TN police, they have a red line which cannot be crossed. One of them is publicly visible law and order issues like smash and grab raids. They may allow political goons to get away with some corrupt acts, but nothing should be visible on the streets. This applies to the famed 'north' Chennai underworld - the police periodically swoops in and takes one or two kingpins out if they get too big for their boots. Of course, there may be a political angle too, but the end result is the average guy can about his life mostly undisturbed. After the bank raids, I remember telling one of my relatives who works in nearby bank - the police will solve it soon. And they did, with this encounter, and by large the people weren't surprised - they were sort of expecting something like this will happen soon, going by history. (http://www.thehindu.com/2002/04/27/stor ... 170300.htm)

I recall a set of encounters back in my school days - one happened right down the street from my school, and I usually biked down that route to go home. That day as I was heading home, a cop was diverting everyone away from that area, so I had to take a circuitous route wondering what happened, and then saw the dead corpse of the downed gangster from a distance. So this sort of thing happens periodically and allows the Chennai Police to keep the underworld in check.

My point is, the bank robber 'encounter' was less a case of putting down some underworld guy, but solving this particular and worrying trend. We don't know where the Andhra encounter fits in - I am loathe to believe the AP police would have been so stupid to offload some labourers from a bus in broad daylight, especially if there are so many woodcutters engaged in the forest illegally who could be taken out. At the same time, I am not sure if we should believe these media reports yet - let's wait for some confirmation from the magisterial enquiry commission that CBN has set up and promised to release the findings soon (http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/na ... 091012.ece).

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 11 Apr 2015 21:20

chaanakyaji,
Whats your take on the forensic analysis of State Govt?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 11 Apr 2015 21:37

the bombay police had a very neat and efficient pest control system until some of the pest controllers were suborned by the D company and were employed as hired guns to eliminate their business rivals. Some of these guys even came down and "encountered" some deserving candidates at a bus stop on old airport road bangalore, kerala.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Apr 2015 22:00

svenkat wrote:chaanakyaji,
Whats your take on the forensic analysis of State Govt?

They are expert. and I am intricately aware of facts of that case than I care to tell online.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 11 Apr 2015 22:09

there is NO reason to bring TN police encounters (whether justified or not) other than 'open shirt torn fly' crap.

by bringing that, you are admitting that the AP police arguments are not standing on its own merit.

for the record, the argument is not - is TN police better than AP police. the argument is not is TN police not doing encounters, whether justified or not.

its been many days now and till now there's no evidence given for

1. the dead were the ones involved in killing authorities before (in which case, the encounter can be argued as justified)

2. the dead were attacking police and were shot in self-defense (in which case, encounter is definitely justified).

all evidence so far, points to staged-encounter.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 11 Apr 2015 22:32

well , to be fair to AP police , there have been instances of these gangs of illegal labourers resorting to force and killing unarmed forest officials in the regions surrounding the encounter areas. Where these unfortunate souls were the same one would be difficult to tell if encounter was spontaneous and genuine. Another point is that these labourers had no business going into an area which is out of bounds for civilians. That they have been lured by higher wages and have not been averse to killing if no fear of ever getting caught is something established by past instances. A reasonable apprehension could be established if encounter is genuine. but that is a big question as of now given the high number of casualty.I also worry why they could not arrest a single person from the site. Same was the case with TN encounter. Let the facts of the case be established.

svenkat · Post by **svenkat** » 12 Apr 2015 16:12

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/city/chennai/Andhra-Pradesh-shooting-Eyewitness-to-go-on-record/articleshow/46893065.cms

TIRUVANNAMALAI: The lone eyewitness, R Sekar from Kannamangalam village in Tiruvannamalai district, who claims to have seen Andhra Pradesh policemen pulling out seven workers from a bus in which they were travelling to AP, would appear before National Human Rights Commission in New Delhi on Tuesday to record his statement.

Sekar was also travelling in the bus along with seven workers that included his nephew S Mahendran, 19, to Andhra Pradesh. When the bus crossed Nagari, a team of policemen in plainclothes boarded the vehicle. They read out the names of the seven workers and detained them.

kvjayan · Post by **kvjayan** » 13 Apr 2015 21:44

If eliminating bank robbers, rowdies, sandalwood smugglers, slum dadas etc. through encounters (of course, in self defence, after providing sufficient chance to surrender) is an accepted policy for one state govt. then the same state govt., in the normal instance, can not question the propriety of another state adopting similar tactics to solve their problems.

member_28533 · Post by **member_28533** » 13 Apr 2015 23:47

I bet most of these Tamil jingos would be OK if the shot dead labor belonged to Andhra.

All their whining about Human rights is purely guided by linguistic chauvinism.

And now NHRC will "reveal" the final truth after its "investigation". Most likely a few cops will be suspended/dismissed or worse for doing their duty.

Seems like all courts are ganging up - AP high court just issued a GAG order for police to NOT talk to media. Possibly because their views dont matter and the only views that matter are those of our champions of SECKYOOOLARISM (Human right wallahs) and champions of TOLERANCE (aka TAMIL fanatics).

Meanwhile Gangi Reddy and YS Jagan must be laughing their way off with the millions they have minted. He will also crib about his HYOOOMAN RIGHTS being violated by fascists Modi and CBN once extradited to India. Perhaps our Courts and NHRC will authorize complete deforestation of Seshachalam of Red Sanders and direct police to provide escort to smugglers and the precious, innocent, toothless labor belonging to TAMIL nadu.

Kali-yugam indeed !

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 13 Apr 2015 23:55

Watch your language buddy, no need to tar people with labels. You are playing into the hands of these kingpins by making this a Tamil-Telugu issue like they intended when hiring labour from outside the state.

So the courts (in AP) are ganging up against AP in support of TN? What are you smoking? Whatever it is, kindly stop and take a deep breath of fresh air, and re-look at the issue. Going by what you are saying, you'd be okay with the AP police going scot-free *without any investigation*.

One way or the other, all encounters need to be investigated, and as a BRFite, one would expect some level headed-ness from fellow posters, not just needless labeling and mud slinging.