Indian Railways Thread (Dec 2015)

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 05 Feb 2016 21:02

Felt posting something on the hygiene and sanitation aspects of Railways.

Over the weekend travelled to the parents place by local train .... suburbs, outskirts of Kolkata.
As I neared my destination, after a particular station the subsequent ones (i.e. as we go away from Kolkata) appeared absolutely neat and clean.

Very surprised.

While returning I decided to find out the reason (one of my late uncle served as Station Master in one of those stations ... so know most of the staff).

It appears they have just removed all eateries, tea stalls from platforms and premises and have banned hawkers from entering the platforms.
That's it.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 05 Feb 2016 22:46

people should be provided good swacch facilities, and IR must enforce none goes outside those facilities. it ain't cost a penny to do this except for the infra!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 05 Feb 2016 22:59

@SRoy, which line ?

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 05 Feb 2016 23:03

^^

Sealdah North

disha · Post by **disha** » 06 Feb 2016 02:42

SRoy wrote:^^

Sealdah North

Wasn't this line which tried to get rid of plastics? I seem to read about it.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 06 Feb 2016 20:36

Central station in madras used to be terrible. Now, even with eateries all over the station and our people being themselves, there is regular cleaning and tons of dust bins everywhere. The station is NEAT!

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 06 Feb 2016 20:42

^^ Saar, if you can, please do post pictures. I had given up on MAS a long time ago, preferring to use MS as an example of (relative) cleanliness.

vsunder · Post by **vsunder** » 07 Feb 2016 22:14

A day in the life of Kharagpur Jn.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RCp6iyTRX8k

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 08 Feb 2016 09:21

http://www.dnaindia.com/money/report-sp ... on-2174967

Spanish firm's Talgo train to undertake trial run on Delhi-Mumbai soon

Trains manufactured by Spanish firm Talgo may soon undertake trial runs at speeds between 160 and 200 kmph on the existing tracks on the Delhi-Mumbai route. Depending upon the results of the trial runs, the railways will consider introduction of high speed trains on other routes too, a senior Railway Ministry official said.Talgo will conduct the time validation trial on Delhi-Mumbai corridor soon, the official said. The Spanish train maker has offered to test run their lighter and faster trains free of cost.We will be issuing the permission letter to Talgo after getting the Railway Board's approval for importing the rake to India. They (Talgo) have offered to do the trial with no cost to railways," said the official. The rake will be imported in knocked down condition and be assembled in India.
If the Talgo train runs at speeds varying between 160 and 200 kmph on the existing infrastructure without any upgrade, the travel time between the two cities is expected to be cut down to about 12 hours from the current 17 hours.Besides reducing travel time, Talgo's lighter trains consume 30% less energy which will help railways reduce their power bill. The official said barring minor changes, there will be no need for overhauling the tracks for the trial run. The process required for this will kick off once the approval of the Railway Ministry has been received, the official said.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 08 Feb 2016 10:05

^^ Now this will be good, but we must insist on complete tech transfer. However, a few issues may need to be looked into. For instance, these trains run at high-speed on access controlled tracks, can we replicate these conditions along the entire Western route? If not, then what speeds can we realistically expect?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Feb 2016 02:30

^^ what is that rocket science that we can't do it homegrown?

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 09 Feb 2016 03:01

It will most likely be Talgo 250
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RENFE_Class_130

SaiK wrote:^^ what is that rocket science that we can't do it homegrown?

Developing our own technology will take many years even if we begin now. That's why many countries that operate HSR and Semi HSR use foreign technology such as Taiwan and SoKo.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 09 Feb 2016 03:21

^^ SaiK saar, just like we have screw-drivergiri pasand DPSUs, there regular PSUs also liking the same. Like-like, same-same.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 09 Feb 2016 22:20

Railway passenger and freight fares set to be hiked

The Centre has decided to raise train passenger and freight charges to bail the Railways out of a crippling financial crisis but the timing of the announcement is yet to be finalised, sources have revealed.
Besides failing to meet its annual revenue targets, the Railways is also groaning under a burden of Rs 32,000 crore this year towards implementing the 7th pay commission recommendations.
“(The) rail coffers are virtually empty. A decision on hiking fares has been taken though railways minister Suresh Prabhu remains undecided on the timing and manner of the announcement,” sources dealing with the matter told HT.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 10 Feb 2016 17:31

It is important for the railways to shed flab to restore financial health. Exit all non-profitable, non-core ventures.

Dipanker · Post by **Dipanker** » 11 Feb 2016 18:53

Not Worth It. Why Railway Fares May Not Be Hiked This Budget

NEW DELHI: Worried about the negative impact of a passenger fare hike, the government is veering towards giving it a miss this time. The Union Rail Budget, to be presented on February, is not likely to increase passenger fares, top sources have told NDTV.

They said that the government has estimated a 10 per cent increase in ticket prices will fetch only around Rs. 4500 Crore but "it may spoil the positive mood about the budget."

Officials said that railways can earn more than this amount by promoting Private Freight Terminals or PFTs and increasing advertising revenues. The NDA government has already increased ticket prices twice since it came to power in May 2014.

The first hike under the current government came in July 2014 with an over 14 per cent increase in passenger ticket prices. It was the steepest one in 15 years. Railway Minister Suresh Prabhu did not increase fares when he presented his first rail budget in February last year but the government later hiked ticket prices in November 2015.

The Railways has additional burden of Rs. 32,000 crores to meet because it has to pay increased salaries and arrears under the seventh pay commission.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 11 Feb 2016 20:10

^^ Better to increase now if they have to, it will become difficult going forward.

SSundar · Post by **SSundar** » 11 Feb 2016 20:56

arshyam wrote:^^ Better to increase now if they have to, it will become difficult going forward.

I see the counterpoint about Private Freight Terminals etc. fetching more money. I think now would be a great time to push for more privatization, dumping non-core businesses and also shedding staff through an aggressive VRS scheme. Unions can also be coopted by telling them that the 7th pay commission hikes can only be implemented if a certain headcount target is met through VRS.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 12 Feb 2016 22:16

IMO fares are not going to be raised before elections are over. Instead they should go for cost cutting and selling encroached and occupied real estate.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 12 Feb 2016 22:23

SSundar, did you bibek debroy's multi part magnum opus on IR in swarajya ? please do if you havent, it will answer many of your "why doesn't IR do ....." questions.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Feb 2016 15:12

so the railway budgets interest none in this dhaaga? interesting..

but, check these interesting facts
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/10-i ... 123495.cms

and this:

Toilets were introduced in 1909 in the lower classes of trains in India after a letter by one Okhil Babu that described the ordeal he faced owing to the absence of lavatories.

we should name toilets on first class coaches as Okhil Babu toilets.

member_29350 · Post by **member_29350** » 25 Feb 2016 17:00

https://twitter.com/RailMinIndia/status ... 3612026880

nice summary

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 25 Feb 2016 22:17

No hike in passenger fares?? That sucks. We need capital injections to improve safety and modernize rail network.

vina · Post by **vina** » 26 Feb 2016 05:41

Sorry folks. This railway budget is tinkering at the margins and trying to do good with the decrepit and run into the ground system. It simply wont do and the Modi Govt despite all grandoise protestations to the contrary simply doesnt have the courage to fundamentally reform railways.

For eg, it is clear that the suburban rail systems have to be let go and handed over to the respective cities. The railways do too many things like running schools and hospitals, and includes caterging to the politicos in parliament. Passenger traffic is bleeding and the romantic notions of "cheap" travel on 2nd class like in our childhood is passe. Passenger traffic is far better on roads (more flexible, point to point, better connectivity etc).

The railways need to be focused entirely on freight and goods traffic and all investments should go there. This spending on passenger stuff if a bottomless pit. The railways should largely scale that back in most regions other than the basket cases of bengal, bihar, up , orissa etc and privatise passenger systems in the rest of the country on a ppp model. In fact, the Railways should be corporatised and not a Govt dept at all and this entire railway budget is so anacrhoistic and simply idiotic. For eg, I simply cannot understand why fares and stuff cannot be adjusted on a monthly basis, why should it be like direct taxes subject to the votes of the YummPeas ?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 26 Feb 2016 10:08

What bullshit ! Do you really beleive all the stuff you wrote ? Apart from rant about budget reform, all of the points are just brain farts.

Most big organisations including your private ones run schools, hospitals among other unrelated services for subsidies or conveniences for heir employees as well as CSR initiatives. Do you think that the people involved in running trains moonlight as railways hospital staff ?

Your type just visits India once in blue moon and thinks that they are supremely qualified to pass judgements on what Indian peasents need and dont need according to your whims. Contrary to what your southern superiority makes you think, railways passenger division is vital to all states, not just your basket cases. Just travel in a traina few times and see for yourself. I dont know what the fascination with privatisation is with certain folks.

soumik · Post by **soumik** » 26 Feb 2016 10:23

In my view the most important line that has been announced is the Kharagpur Mumbai Freight link. This line is going to be a steel highway with the steel plants of Bilaspur,Bhilai, Raigrah, Durgapur, Jamshedpur, Rourkela and bokaro all on or in close proximity to the line, also the Aluminum giant at Muri. This line should become a funnel feeding the steel & Mineral needs of the industrial belt of the DMIC and simultaneously provide an easy transit route for Machinery to be brought to the plants from the Dockyards at JNPT & Vizingham.

vina · Post by **vina** » 26 Feb 2016 11:46

jamwal wrote:What bullshit ! Do you really beleive all the stuff you wrote ? Apart from rant about budget reform, all of the points are just brain farts.

Most big organisations including your private ones run schools, hospitals among other unrelated services for subsidies or conveniences for heir employees as well as CSR initiatives. Do you think that the people involved in running trains moonlight as railways hospital staff ?

Your type just visits India once in blue moon and thinks that they are supremely qualified to pass judgements on what Indian peasents need and dont need according to your whims. Contrary to what your southern superiority makes you think, railways passenger division is vital to all states, not just your basket cases. Just travel in a traina few times and see for yourself. I dont know what the fascination with privatisation is with certain folks.

Facts. The Railways are NOT run as a business. They ARE a business and need to be run efficiently. I am disappointed that Suresh Prabhu has not been able to put in place a standard double entry accrual based accounting system in YET. Indian Railways runs on a classic single entry - Government accounting system , which is so much rubbish. A public or private company , publishing such a balance sheet and maintaining books that way will be sent to Jail (to give you a perspective) .

The railways are in a make believe world. The passenger traffic FELL by close to 200 MILLION last year.
Minority View , IR Confused over losing 150m passengers despite no fare hikes

The last year was the worst year for the railways so far as the passenger traffic even declined by as much as 192 million in the year. So the 150 million fall in passenger traffic in the first five months of the current year only shows that the decline has now accelerated further.
Last year’s numbers show that the bulk of the fall in passenger traffic happened in a few zones. Of the 17 zones in the Indian Railways as many as 15 registered a fall in passenger traffic with the number of passengers declining between 0.2 million and 40.5 million. Passenger traffic increased in only two zones in the last financial year namely in the East Coast Railway and Central Railway respectively.

According to the railways most of the fall in passenger traffic was accounted by suburban services and short distance travellers. Obviously the growing number of young people joining the workforce finds the quality of railway services too bizarre for the comfort. The long queues, overcrowded trains and the less than clean surroundings have obviously gone even below tolerable levels. Safety and security concerns and erratic timings only add to the problems.
Consequently most short distance travellers and urban office goers are dumping the railways for other alternative transport services. The only segment that continues to post a pickup are the passengers in the reserved category who travel much longer distances and have no choice of alternative transport services like airlines which are more expensive.

So . THERE you are . This suburban rail service is too peripheral and unimportant to be fixed by some idiotic bureaucracy sitting in Delhi . It requires local level planning, leadership, solutions, investments and control. Time to let go of suburban services , in Mumbai, Chennai and Kolkata (along with the Kolkata Metro) to the local governments an tell them to carry it and fix it.

As for short distance traffic, the railways are simply NOT competitive with roads in most part of the country. No one will take a train from Bangalore to Hosur or Krishangiri or Kengeri or Kanakapura or even Mysore (unless it is the regular free pass holders of the railway employees who make up a large part of those commuters ). This is simply loss making operations. Get rid of them . Few if any will miss them. For journey less than 200 KM, with increasing road connectivity, the railways simply lose out in terms of convenience, speed and everything. Don't throw money on it. Roll it into the suburban /metro services and hand it to the states /cities. Let them decide what they want to do with them and how. For social causes, only basket case states of Bengal, UP, Bihar and Orissa where even short distance road transport is not possible, carry it.

Other than that, shift focus to long distance trains (the super fast trains from Bihar/Bengal/UP to other parts) with a 2nd class config is great. Stuff like IRCTC, the hospitals, schools etc must be given away/privatised. The payroll of the IR must be drastically revised downwards. Also the RPF must be drastically downsized and largely disbanded . What is so special about trains that don't apply to buses and trucks and roads and airlines and airports? Why not hand over the railway schools to the KV Sangathan and the hospitals to the health ministry ? Why not privatise all the manufacturing and maintenance units ? If private guys make wagons and you procure them, what is so special about passenger coaches the the govt needs to make them ? Why should govt make the train wheel sets, and also the wheel tyres ?

Fundamentally, the only natural monopoly in the railways is the permanent way and the associated infra. Everything else can be opened to competition . Why should IR RUN the trains on the DFC . Sure , build the DFC, but let everyone else run the trains on it on a commercial basis efficiently . IR should just charge fees for the permanent way. .

Bottomline. The Lallooos, Nitishes and Mamata have run the railways in to the ground. It needs to be re-eningeered from the bottom up. Suresh Prabhu CAN do it and will do it if allowed to. But it looks like that he has NO mandate to do it. Modi is simply too unimaginative to do any restructuring (that can be seen in the agenda so far, gradual incrementalism and tinkering in the margins /unclogging) of the broader economy. That has come back to bite this govt big time. The world goes to recession again or there is a shock 20 % devaluation of the Yuan (which most people expect WILL be needed to prevent capital flight out of China and turn it around, it will come without warning and as a shock of course) or if the Saudis and Iranians start shooting at each other and oil spikes to $100, God save us. I commented on Pranab Mukherjees budgets as "All ducks must line up perfect as I imagine in the best case" budgets. This railway budget looks like that again , with the difference being that Suresh Prabhu has lot of room to squeeze efficiencies out of the railways ( a big difference I admit).

I shudder to think what Jaitley's is going to be like. The bond markets are not happy at all. Yields are NORTH of 8% and that is despite 125 bps RBI rate cuts. The markets are spooked over the upcoming UDAY bonds (worth 90K crore), being dumped on the markets (this i the bail out of the discoms and power sector which the politicos have run into the ground again). The fiscal stress is high and the govt borrowings are crowding out investments and increasing borrowing costs for everyone. Time for radical things to do, but the Govt simply doesnt have it in it to do it. Modi needs to change course fundamentally in the remaining parts of the economy which Narasimha Rao couldn't do. Modi needs to do a Narasimha Rao , but unfortunately he isn't Rao, either in terms of talent or clarity of thought and action.

geeth · Post by **geeth** » 26 Feb 2016 21:45

Fortunately for the country, the railway minister is not a yem bee aae aand do not indulge in cut and paste jobs. He is clearly focussing on completing the pending works. Indian Railways is the lifeline of the masses and for a while, even if it doesnt look like a world class service, it is okay. Things will improve over time if not overnight. Once the foundation is strengthened, build up can be acceperated. That is what he is trying to do.

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 26 Feb 2016 21:50

Looks like the recent losses in Delhi and Bihar and the upcoming elections in UP and West Bengal has stayed NaMo's hands from carrying out any meaningful reforms because he can't get through the RS which is controlled by Congress and the likes of Mayawati and Banajeree.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Feb 2016 21:59

What new forms are possible at this point ? A lot was announced last year. Many of those things take years to get done. It's not really worthwhile to announce things for the sake of announcing them. The only major concern is that the railways overestimated gains in freight traffic, and also are saddled with the pay commission burden. They need to continue to execute on their plans.

Ridiculous ideas like privatizing IR are not going to come to pass. Armchair prescriptions like that are easy to make, but aren't anywhere near feasible at this point, and the political noise would just detract from what can be effectively done to improve execution of tasks. Short of a crisis situation, there won't be a push to privatize.

ManuJ · Post by **ManuJ** » 27 Feb 2016 04:25

The biggest reform that the IR has seen in decades is in the making:

Draft Bill for railway development authority to be drafted soon. Railway board to be reorganised on business lines and chairman to be re-empowered

http://www.financialexpress.com/article ... in/215805/

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Feb 2016 13:29

it is better to clean the rut and finally eventually privatize rather do it all in MMRCA type of UPAvasish mother of all deal to some bunch of big honchos to swindle the nation, and would no means think about poor people at hand, and hard to control and regularize.

hang in there.. and wait for IR to mature, cleanse and mature. make profits, and then slowly privatize section by section with an agenda driven regulatory board established to oversee failures, security, operations, performance, political implications, et al. India core is IR travel based.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 27 Feb 2016 21:36

I think Prabhu could have done more with using the real estate that Railways has and speed up the redevelopment of stations. It is possible that he is not being able to make the IR babus, used to sloth, to execute projects faster.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 27 Feb 2016 21:39

he needs restructuring of IR babooze being sent for some serious trainings... yes, that is one area privatization can be thought of to begin with. but infrastructure and services must improve on the tracks, rails and stations first.

Sachin · Post by **Sachin** » 01 Mar 2016 15:40

For the records... (recd. on mail from NIC)
15 Citizen Ideas that Shaped the Rail Budget 2016-17

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 03 Mar 2016 22:03

What a brilliant idea. Power ministry will fund electrification of railway tracks. Its called nation building.

Government mulls electrification of 35,000 km rail line in 3 years

Elaborating further he said, "Rs one crore per kilometer is the current of cost of rail electrification. If we do it in three years, cost will come down to half. But it cannot be less than 30-35 per cent. Power Ministry will spend entire money. One of my companies will spend 100 per cent of money."

According to the minister, the electrification of entire rail track in the country will lead to power consumption going up by 7 billion units.

"We can easily recover the investment in three years. So we done the deal. Under the project 75 per cent of the savings will be paid to Power Ministry's company for next 10 years and remaining will be enjoyed by Railways," he said.

"Out of our 75 per cent share of savings 50 per cent would be used to pay costs and interest and remaining 25 per cent will be our profit."

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 04 Mar 2016 00:25

Awesome. Less pollution and less oil imports.

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 04 Mar 2016 00:56

Do the above mentioned timelines sound feasible? This sounds like quantum improvement. I believe electric traction can have greater acceleration compared to diesel. Also WAG9s could easily outpunch WDGs. Piyush Goyal makes it sound really attractive. In a recent briefing he mentioned about plateauing of coal demand indirectly. He is probably looking for new markets for his ministry.

Selling LEDs equivalent to one year in the past is being done in one day now. So he has demonstrated scaling at least in some cases.

vasu raya · Post by **vasu raya** » 04 Mar 2016 03:29

land acquisition and financing seem to be non-issues in the above venture

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 04 Mar 2016 05:58

The numbers don't seem to match in that rail electrification story. How can saving Rs 200 crore a year of diesel consumption lead to Rs16,000 crore per year in forex?

In any case, how can 'Cow + Marx' people come up with such bold ideas?