Budget 2016 - news & discussions

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vina
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by vina »

Baboon Benefits Sacrosanct?
Editorial: Babu benefits sacrosanct?
It is odd, infuriating really, that while benefits are being taken away from the middle-class and higher taxes are being imposed on the rich on grounds the government is strapped for cash, there is absolutely no attempt to rein in the costs of babus. Surely, when a largesse of Rs 1 lakh crore was proposed by the 7th Pay Commission some months ago, the government could have asked for cuts in it, if not rejected it outright? After all, as the IIM-A study that the pay panel got done showed, government employees get paid a lot more than those in the private sector do—nurses get paid 2.5 times more and lower-level staff like drivers get paid around double. As for the productivity of these employees, the evidence is quite clear—year after year, ASER studies show that students in private schools perform better than those in government schools where the teachers get paid around 2.5 times what their private sector counterparts do.
While the argument is made that government employees do not get pay hikes of the type the private sector does, this is not true either since, at the very least, salaries are indexed to inflation and there is also an annual increment—most government employees see their salaries rise 10-11% each year. And there is also an equalisation of pay where even babus who have retired get a significant bump up in their pensions once salaries are raised for existing employees by successive pay panels—while this equalisation was not absolute earlier, the pay panel has gone ahead and done this. The next time the government complains about being cash-strapped, it would be a good idea for it to look inwards and cut some of the flab within. Or is it that government employees have rights that are superior to those of the common folk?
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by Singha »

>>Also the fact that after 3 years of inactivity the PF account will get dormant and we wont get any interest.

so suppose someone worked for 3 years in india, and has some money in PF.
after that he goes to work somewhere outside india for say 5 years, does it mean his PF money is locked up until age 57 and not earning interest after 3 yrs, or if he returns to india and starts contributing to PF again, his account becomes active and starts to earn interest?
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by Singha »

looking at how vast amount of wholesale transactions in any busy market in india happen on cash basis and on under-invoiced bills to reduce taxes , raping the middle class is like bombing iraq for what TSP-KSA did in 9/11
there are millions of service providers in urban areas who openly ask do you want bill to pay +service tax or just want it cheaper.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by nirav »

Singhaji,
I'm sure you will be aware of massive underhand dealings in the service sector via medical bills, LTA and inventive breakup of salary to hoodwink tax authorities.
The rot is present everywhere.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by chandrasekaran »

This so called "massive underhand dealings in the service sector via medical bills, LTA and inventive breakup of salary to hoodwink tax authorities." is peanuts compared to what Singha pointed out.

Medical bills get a tax relief of 5k at best. Now compare what a neighborhood doctor charges for a consultation and extrapolate that to what a family of 4, with two school going children, would spend on doctor consultation and medicine expenses in a highly polluted tier-1 city ! LTA can be claimed onlce in two years and that too travel expenses. Stay is NOT covered.

Even assuming 100% of this is cheating, it IS peanuts and would pale in comparison.

What the govt. press release and subsequent statements imply is majority of the private employed salaried class that earns > 15k per month is into cheating the govt. of tax big time.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by nirav »

Well, EPF decuctions are based on Basic + DA. A lot of innovative things done in the name of "CTC" to escape a higher pf deduction.

And yes, the underhand dealings are huge, i dont deny them. But whos on the paying end of undocumented services ?

Its the same burgeoning "middle class" and "affluent class".Govt is right in a way. Service tax collections dont reflect actual services provided countrywide.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by chandrasekaran »

Every one of that "innovative things in the name of CTC" is either covered by FBT or IT already.

Middle class is at the paying end of "undocumented services" - for two reasons. The service tax burden is shifted to the "paying end" - No one says, I shall provide you service but I shall pay the service tax myself. Second reason is even if the end consumer agrees to pay the service tax as well, there IS no guarantee that it reaches the government coffers.

Instead of fixing all this, the FM goes after PF!
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by nirav »

some confusion here. Majority of the clients who agree to pay without bill/underhand dealings" are middle/upper class only. Fact is that when one chance is available to skirt tax, a lot of folks take it.
I too have been guilty of it. Not judging.

But saying that govt action EPF is "raping the middle class" like Singhaji said is incorrect.

The salaried middle class isnt really holy that they dont engage in any form of tax evasion whatsoever.

But again, the EPF proposal is not about pocketing extra tax from middle classes, but encouraging them to save.

it pushes folks to avenues like SIPs, insurance products, listed securities, for long term rather than relying whole and sole on EPF corpus post retirement.
It depends on the way one looks at it.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by nawabs »

Nirav ji, read Suraj ji's posts on this matter, about how the gov. should have gone about doing what they proclaim they aim to do. Though the way they are changing their statements, I doubt this is their main aim.

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... t#p1987196
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by disha »

This is a must read:

http://swarajyamag.com/ideas/relook-at- ... tituencies
All budgets have some political content, but the one Arun Jaitley presented last Monday (29 February) had Narendra Modi written all over it. This is not unknown, for Prime Ministers do have a big say in budget proposals. Barring the budgets presented by Pranab Mukherjee, where his sense of being senior to Manmohan Singh made him impervious to suggestions from the Prime Minister (hence the retrospective tax?), PMs do impact the broad thrust of budgets.

But budget 2016-17, which has been the best-accepted of the three presented by Arun Jaitley, should be read as Modi’s deep political statement of intent and content. Not least because, unusually for a Prime Minister, Modi announced to the world he was on test on budget day.

That he passed the test he set for himself is evidenced by the resounding verdict of the stock markets yesterday (1 March), when the Sensex soared 777 points, followed by another big jump on Wednesday by mid-day.

Do the stock markets know something we do not? Why was the Sensex celebrating when one of Modi’s core constituencies (the middle class) has been miffed over his proposal to tax employee provident fund (EPF) withdrawals, and big business has been glum about Jaitley reneging on his promise to cut rates? Rates were cut only for companies with a turnover below Rs 5 crore by one percent. Big business’ claps were reserved only for Jaitley’s decision to the fiscal roadmap, when they could not care less about it. They wanted something and didn’t get it.

While no one will grudge Modi his efforts to woo the estranged farm sector, which is in deep distress after two weak monsoons and slow wage growth for four years, if the bedrock of his vote base - the urban middle class - is shaken, he can kiss goodbye to 2019.

But Modi is hardly a politician to ignore his constituency, and so, despite the EPF mess-up, it is worth reading between the lines of his budget to assess if he has really given up on the constituency that voted for him and opted instead for an image boost with the rural voter.

First, let us be clear on one thing: the middle-class tends to be narrowly focused on three major tax areas: the basic exemption limit (which wasn’t raised), the 80C deductions (which didn’t happen) and deductions for home loan interest (which was indeed raised by Rs 50,000 for homes costing less than Rs 50 lakh). So, getting one out of three wishes can’t be called a middle class no-show.

Also, there is the question of which middle class we are talking about. There are many shades of middle class: Modi’s constituency is all of the urban middle classes (including the neo middle classes, which fall just below the taxable limit of Rs 2.5 lakh or evade taxes since they work in the informal sector), the middle middle classes (which earn upto Rs 5 lakh per annum, who got a small Rs 3,000 tax rebate for the year, and higher deductions of Rs 60,000 on house rent paid if they are not receiving HRA), and the upper middle classes (which got the additional EMI deduction), and the upper, upper middle classes of professionals, who actually got a huge benefit by being brought under presumptive tax, where they can pay just 8 percent tax on presumptive incomes upto Rs 50 lakh (where half of it will be taken as profit, and hence they will pay tax of just Rs 4 lakh, or even lower by claiming deductions). The doctors, lawyers, CAs, architects and consultants – mostly tax evaders, and who are often harassed by taxmen – should be stronger Modi loyalists after this.

Another core constituency, small traders and businessmen, also benefit by being allowed to get away with paying just 8 percent tax presumptive tax on turnover upto Rs 2 crore, up from the Rs 1 crore limit earlier. That 3.3 million small taxpayer households who should breathe a sigh of relief that the taxman can’t pry into their account-books. They can also pay less than Rs 8 lakh per crore of turnover by claiming other deductions.

The only constituencies that may be really miffed – apart from the middle class grouch over EPF taxation, which may still be remedied – are the business community and the super-rich. But most of them don’t vote, and their numbers don’t count. India Inc is still hurting under excessive debt and pared margins, while income earners above Rs 1 crore will have to pay a surtax of 15 percent, up from 12 percent earlier.

Of the two, big business must be unhappier. Not only has it been treated like a pariah by being kept out of Modi’s durbar, it has also been denied Jaitley’s promised corporate one percent tax cut this year, which is restricted to companies below Rs 5 crore turnover. India Inc’s margins will be squeezed by higher energy cesses (coal), and higher taxes on cars, SUVs, cigarettes, jewellery, etc, not all of which may be passable to consumers. The unkindest cut is the higher dividend tax on payments above Rs 10 lakh – which will impact promoters more than ordinary shareholders.

However, what business loses in the direct swing of the tax axe, it gains from the roundabouts of long-term ease of doing business and tax amnesty schemes, which will allow businessmen to declare black money or hidden assets by paying 45 percent tax. Then there are schemes to allow individuals and firms to settle disputed tax amounts upto Rs 10 lakh with interest, but without penalty. For amounts above that, disputes can be settled with 25 percent of the minimum penalties. What business is getting is peace of mind and less hassle if it pays up. The big question is whether it will indeed pay up and settle, especially if the amounts involved are large.

Businessmen will be clearly missing the chummy Gujarat CM they had come to love earlier, but what Modi is signalling as PM is simple: the regime of cronyism has changed, and business needs to adjust to this reality. He is willing to steadily improve ease of doing business, but if the latter still are not able to feel it, it’s because the states are taking their time to adjust to their new role of making life easier for business.

Despite Modi’s image of being close to crony businesses, the fact is neither Adani nor Ambani – two businessmen often mentioned in this context - has got any whiff of a favour from the Modi regime. Adani was denied an SBI loan for his Australian project, and Ambani has seen his gas prices shrink rather than grow, as promised by the UPA and Arvind Kejriwal. Far from getting favours, banks and enforcement agencies are going after bank loans defaulters with a vengeance, and, with the Supreme Court getting into the act, one can be sure that at least one or two major businessman will probably see the insides of jail for fraud and diddling banks, taxmen and investors.

The message from the Modi regime to business is: grow up and grow the right way, not the crony way. This is one reason why they are getting options to declare black incomes and invest it in legitimate businesses rather than favouring them in the sly, UPA way. This is also the reason why growth has been slower to pick up than one would have expected. Business is still nostalgic about being chummy with politicians in the old way.

Modi’s loss may be that big business may now be more inclined to back other parties, but that will not impact his prospects in 2019. Those whom businessmen choose to favour are usually those the voters trust less. Ask the UPA what happened after being seen as thick with cronies in 2G, Coalgate, etc.

Coming back to the budget, it may have no big idea, but it has several smaller ones that add up to a big one – if they work.

First, growth will be stimulated through public investments in railways and roads, both urban and rural – adding up to over Rs 2,18,000 crore this year.

Second, jobs will be created by spurring small entrepreneurship, including Dalit entrepreneurship, and investment in infrastructure, including farming infrastructure (irrigation, etc). Modi has offered sops to businesses to hire more, but he has cottoned on to the fact that real jobs will come in infrastructure and construction, and from the growth of entrepreneurship. This is the reality the world over, as big business is not hiring much in the age of technology and abundant capital. His Mudra Bank and Start Up India are bets made on entrepreneurship-driven job creation.

Third, the poor will be served not by handouts, but by inclusion strategies not amounting to handouts – the Jan Dhan Yojana, the promise to electrify all villages by May 2018 and connecting them by roads are little pieces that promise inclusion. So is the promise to build toilets all over. Swachch Bharat may or may not make India a cleaner place, but open defecation and privacy for women in toilets will surely be a reality. Modi has realised that bureaucracy works best in mission mode, and hence all his initiatives are missions with targets.

Fourth, the JAM trio – Jan Dhan, Aadhaar and Mobile payments - will be used to the hilt to reform subsidies, but not eliminate them. The promise to double farm incomes can be the pre-election cash gusher to marginal farmers. Instead of UPA-style loan waivers, farmers may end up with direct income support and cash in their Jan Dhan accounts. There is no other way to show their incomes will double in five years, as promised by Jaitley. Don’t be surprised if MNREGA morphs into an unemployment dole directed into bank accounts through Aadhaar IDs.

Fifth, the middle class will gain from the general turnaround in corporate profits, greater hirings, investments in cities and public transport, and the rural rebound, not to speak of direct tax benefits in the final two years of the Modi tenure.


The budget addresses all of Modi’s current and future constituencies: the 32 percent urban voter base, the additional 15-20 percent rurban wannabe urban voters, and the marginal farmer. It can be a viable coalition for 2019, if all of them feel they have gained from Modi’s first five years.

The key is implementing Modi’s vision. That could be the proverbial slip between cup and lip.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by arshyam »

^^ R Jaggi seems to be quite positive on the budget, that's his second write up on the topic.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by SaiK »

essentially the tax muddles have been retained aiding to more complexities than simplifications.

can some one comment on 2% excise duty on ready made garments exceeding 1000/- for mftrs with no claims on input tax credit?
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by vina »

Picklu wrote:
Finally, NaMo came with the promise of maximum governance. The governance includes social security net. Social security net comes with responsible financial behavior often nudged or even bluntly forced by government on the collective such as EPF in the first place. .
Nonsense. This is a on old age story of trying to grab someone else's money to dole out patronage. Same story as anyone paying a deposit upfront for water, sewage and power lines and not seeing it for 20 years, because that is doled out to someone else. This is the totalitarian nonsense of the soviet/commie rhetoric.

The fact is, if there is no coercion in forcing the people to deposit 25% of their salary in the PF fund (way beyond what you get in terms of tax benefits), the PF corpus would be a pitiable next to nothing, which simply wont be enough to pay out that dole. The idea is the same of rob Peter to pay Paul. The reason why there is this huge push back is, you will not get BACK what you pay into the system. Sure. Build a PF system you want, but take out the coercion and say, that contributing ABOVE the Rs 1.5L per annum is optional . Very simple. You do all the "Socialism"/"Dole"/"Pensioned Society" nonsense out of it equally to everyone , as everyone's contribution would be largely equal.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by vina »

Suraj wrote:My fundamental problem with the EPF taxation proposal, whether it be on contributions+earnings, just earnings, or any fraction of either, is this - EPFO invests in G-secs , with only a proposal to invest upto 5% in equities. In other words. EPF returns the nominal rate of return based on GoI's measure of inflation, which itself is lower than real world observed inflation. They now propose to tax some part of this savings. That is outrageously stupid.

For those talking about IRA or 401K in YooEss (even I live in YooEss and have those accounts), please understand that your accounts can invest in anything. EPFO does not give you that choice. You make the nominal rate of return at the government stated rate of inflation, that's all. Now if GOTUS asserted that a) IRA/401K will invest in treasuries onlee AND b) you'll be taxed at withdrawal (by any fraction), there will be a similar revolt as what you see here.
EXACTLY . The IRA /ROTH IRAs ,401K, allow YOU to choose where to invest and you don't give your money off to a bumbling centralised bureaucracy. The reason for the PF to exist itself is simple. It is NOT to get the best returns for the investors (like a CALPERS would do), but rather as a means for the Govt to vacuum up cheap funds , in the socialist days. That kind of thing will work in the command & control days of the old or the socialist system of the 70s with cradle to grave security and all "GOVT" work the Baboons and other critters live in. However, in today's world, you NEED to dismantle it and let people invest as they see fit. And NO, the govt CANNOT have your funds as hostage and repress it in pursuit of its "socialist" wet dreams.

The trouble basically is the desire to run the old repressive /socialist/totalitarian engines in today's world WITHOUT huge Reforms and fundamental rethink . Just remove the coercion out of it. Remember in the US, the ONLY tax benefits you get are based on which accounts you make the investment from (which tend to be all retirement and pension accounts). Why can I NOT use a part of the PF corpus to invest in a Long Term Mutual Fund or a Bond Fund or an ETF like I can do elsewhere ? Sure, tax me on exit as long term capital gains, I have no problems there. But tax at Entry (at above 1.5L) AND tax at exit is sheer idiocy.
That is the problem. Like I said, someone did not think this through. If they managed a functional and deep equity and bond market that generates long term rates of return in the double digits, few would complain about EPF withdrawals being taxed. It would be a win-win . The actual corpus would be much higher thanks to the greater equity driven nominal gains. The tax receipts would be correspondingly higher.
For that , they SHOULD allow a functioning GSecs market (now it is a mai-baap / wink wink nod-nod PSU banks and some closed institutions buying and selling on a closed RBI run platform , you can't even trade on it from your normal DMat accounts, there is a a special GSec account which needs to subscribed to etc.. the entire idea is to keep the private sector and individuals and their claims on the Govt Debt out, so that you an easily do whatever you want in terms of running monetary policy without a broader backlash) .. all part of the old socialist /commie set up.
AND they need to all private PF funds, allow Alternate Investments to grow (right now, huge barriers to allowing them to grow) . In the old days the GOVT decided the fundamental problem of Capital Allocation via a bunch of Baboons sitting in Delhi. Now if the Market is doing it, you NEED to allow Captial Markets to function AND allow free access to it. The coercion part simply wont work.
First hamstringing the EPF system to return only fixed nominal rates, and then attempting to tax that reeks of bad politics. Clearly a babu idea that somehow made it into the budget without proper political clearance.
It was done on political directive alright . NAMO has talked on and on about 'Pension' society. He want a universal pension system. Trouble is, it was done by numbskull Baboons who have no wider experience beyond that warrenhole of Govt life and system and ZERO idea of how things work in real world and simply couldn't have been bothered to ask. If they had a public consultation process on this and on how to architect this, they would have had workable ideas from everyone.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by SwamyG »

I do not think Modi cares to follow or oppose "rob peter to pay paul" adage. He is not a keen follower of any particular European ideology - capitalism or socialism. He is Indic who thinks and believes in adopting any policy that will help his vision to move the country forward. India first, being his stated goal he is not going to be a prisoner of ideologies which many in the Left or Right so dearly hold to their hearts.

Be it Chanakiya, Tiruvalluvar or Brhathari; or other philosophers and observers and practitioners of state craft - Welfare of the people was an essential component. And state played a role, but then there was the varnashrama that took care of the social structure and needs.

Modi will do what ever it takes, borrow ideas from everywhere.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by vina »

SwamyG wrote:I do not think Modi cares to follow or oppose "rob peter to pay paul" adage. He is not a keen follower of any particular European ideology - capitalism or socialism. He is Indic who thinks and believes in adopting any policy that will help his vision to move the country forward. India first, being his stated goal he is not going to be a prisoner of ideologies which many in the Left or Right so dearly hold to their hearts.
Yeah, Whatever this "Indic" is. As long as he makes sense
Modi will do what ever it takes, borrow ideas from everywhere.
AND, he has gone and borrowed ideas from morons here. It makes no sense . The intent is laudable (Pensionable society with social security), but he has absolute cretins fleshing out the details and making a dog's meal of execution.

1.) That clueless loudmouth of his in the Finance Ministry , Jaitley, needs to moved out (let him stick with that media circus ministry) and someone who knows these things must be brought in (I suggest Deepak Parekh) . That guy is deeply out of his depth here and has no frickin clue of what he is doing on anything.

2.) The Chief Baboon in these matters, the Economic Affairs Secretary Shaktikanta Das and his fellow troop of Baboons, Revenue Secy Hasmukh Adhi and others must be fired. Those numbskulls are simply obstinate, know nothings themselves and couldn't hear even if told otherwise . Simply unsuited for the job. Must be kicked out to some Hindi Prachar Vibhaag or some some thing.

3) Get people in who actually KNOW what they are doing.

4) Jaitley has just ONE more budget to go. No FM can present 5 budgets in one term. The 5th is a vote of account in prep for the election and a lame duck. Three wasted and one more to go. He BETTER get this amended and done right Right now.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by SwamyG »

Are baba, whine whine. FM has said they will look into it, no? Why this much allergy towards traditional economic values? If the government is going to take a second look, it means they have heard the peiple, na?

Governments rollback policies, part of democracy. Peoples voices are being heard.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by vina »

SwamyG wrote:Are baba, whine whine. FM has said they will look into it, no? Why this much allergy towards traditional economic values? If the government is going to take a second look, it means they have heard the peiple, na?

Governments rollback policies, part of democracy. Peoples voices are being heard.
Oh. The budget has lot more egregious idiocies than this PF stuff. But that will not generate the kind of outrage as this one did because it does not touch the "common man" (aka the clueless village idiots) directly, so they couldnt care and wont be rolled back / not acted upon.

Like I said, Jet Li and his Baboon troop advisors are a bunch of clueless morons.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by Austin »

Aditya_V wrote:I agree with 58 year rule, it is ok for people working in Govts or Single Co career, but whaat about people kicked out due to Office politics. It s better to give them thier money and ask them to invest.
Yes Sir you are Dot on Money , We are seeing this Chuityapaa for 58 years from present GOI , There would be many situations or circumstances in life where we might need money and a money there but cannot be put to use is a big $##%%#%

They should have atleast debated that in Parliament and public forum and taken views before going ahead with such proposal
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by Austin »

Singha wrote:so suppose someone worked for 3 years in india, and has some money in PF.
after that he goes to work somewhere outside india for say 5 years, does it mean his PF money is locked up until age 57 and not earning interest after 3 yrs, or if he returns to india and starts contributing to PF again, his account becomes active and starts to earn interest?
When he come back he can contribute to the PF , The Money that is locked up is the Employer part of contribution and not the Employee part
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by Gyan »

Cross post:-

There is a nuclear bomb hidden in the budget speech which can detonate anytime against Indian Economy:-

Govt is trying to bring Bankruptcy code which will force any Indian Company even with minor default to be handed over to "Private Liquidator" within 2 days; repealing earlier SICA which permitted systematic rehabilitation period of 7 years. As per RBI data distressed Companies/assets are being sold to ARCs for only 2% of the value of Nominal debt by Banks. Simultaneously FDI and 100% Single ownership has been allowed in ARCs. This will permit ARCs to buy up Indian Companies at the fraction of their value ie at arouind 1-2% of their real value due to liquidity crisis created by RBI.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by Picklu »

Vina Sir won't be happy till a tam bram troop occupies all posts in fin-min including the ministers' chairs. :P

Sorry, correction, then it would be the non tam-bram gorilla PM's fault. :((

Just kidding. Don't kill me for this. :mrgreen:
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by deejay »

The EPF is bad news for middle class as per me. EPF will hit us unfairly, leave us a little poorer / less disposable amount on retirement, etc. etc. It seems, this will stay.

But wait - does this mean I vote in anti nationals. Vote back the traitors or some sort of National Lalu raj with Mahagathbandhan. That will destroy my son's future too no?

To me vote against Modi sarkar is Hara Kiri - Desi style!
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by deejay »

- delete- wrong thread
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by Akshay Kapoor »

Deejay it will be rolled back. Chinta not.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by nirav »

will be biggest sign of weakness of resolve of govt. IF rolled bback.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by geeth »

If somebody sit down and do the math..it would still turn out to be not too bad for middle class and above.

For eg., if Rs 1000 put in EPF today is tax free (both principal and interest, compound it for 20years at applicable rate. Deduct tax on 60% of interest accrued..

See if this more than what you get on Rs 700 (after tax amount of 1000) with reduced interest rate (to account for TDS). I feel former will still be a better option.

I am typing from mobile and cant do it.
geeth
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by geeth »

Give a missed call on 0 1122901406 and get your PF balance via text message.Ache Din.
geeth
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by geeth »

Picklu wrote:Vina Sir won't be happy till a tam bram troop occupies all posts in fin-min including the ministers' chairs. :P

Sorry, correction, then it would be the non tam-bram gorilla PM's fault. :((

Just kidding. Don't kill me for this. :mrgreen:
:rotfl: :rotfl: :rotfl:
Last edited by geeth on 03 Mar 2016 20:27, edited 2 times in total.
kvraghav
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by kvraghav »

Why don't they tax gpf in similar way?
Rahul M
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by Rahul M »

kvraghav wrote:Why don't they tax gpf in similar way?
because it doesn't exist anymore ??
rvishwak
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by rvishwak »

And the number media is quoting for loss if this applies to people joining workforce after this year is totally wrong. These guys will retire in 2054 (assuming they are joining at 22 years. of age and have 38 yrs. of service)
They are assuming the corpus will fall in the >10 lac bracket and taxed at 30%. Wouldn't these income tax bracket will change by 2054 i.e. 30% bracket will be for taxable income >50 lacs for eg?

Agree that people retiring in near term will get affected but for only that part of accrual which will happen after 01 April.
member_28352
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by member_28352 »

Rahul M wrote:
kvraghav wrote:Why don't they tax gpf in similar way?
because it doesn't exist anymore ??
It only doesn't exist for those employees who joined post 2004. However the govt doesn't have the cojones to touch the GPF accounts of pre 2004 employees and change the rules midway as it has done for EPF account holders.
SaraLax
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by SaraLax »

geeth wrote:Give a missed call on 0 1122901406 and get your PF balance via text message.Ache Din.
Same number is also given in the article on this website - http://www.planmoneytax.com/check-pf-account-balance/

I am enrolled in the UAN but neither the missed call nor SMS type process of seeking PF balance are working.
The given number seems to be an active one but i get "The number you have dialed is Busy" type pre-recorded voice message from the Telco and I haven't received any SMS yet.

I also tried the direct SMS option of requesting for PF balance but it didn't work - i got no response SMS too (even if some sort of SMS message indicating some error from my side).
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by Viv S »

Shekhar Gupta: Budget 2016 shows Modi is a reformer in retreat
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The Narendra Modi government’s third Budget confirms that he is a reformer of government and not a liberaliser of economy. The most significant positive aspects of this Budget, for example, all lie in improving government processes. The most important of these are tax administration, reduction in taxman’s discretionary powers and reduction of both the extent and the duration of tax litigation. There is more money for physical infrastructure, but it will still go through a government pipeline. Reform of government processes includes a whole-hearted embracing of Aadhaar, direct benefit transfer of more subsidies, including, bravely, on fertilisers and some moves on non-merit subsidies and giveaways. A significant reduction in full tax exemption on provident fund withdrawals is a reform that needed serious courage to undertake, although we are not sure yet if it will survive Parliament.

Modi’s isn’t a “minimum government, maximum governance” approach. It is more government, but better governance. There is no real relaxation for foreign direct investment in newer sectors or an increase in ceilings, except in agro-processing. For all the rest, you come to us and we, the sarkar, know best. On genuine privatisation, there isn’t even a trial balloon. There is talk of strategic sale, but that is confined to public sector undertakings (PSUs) selling their physical assets such as land. In the government system, this is easier said than done, since asset sales are messy and scam-prone. But again, Modi thinks he can reform his government sufficiently for it to have the credibility to do this. The change in the name of the disinvestment ministry to investment ministry is more than cosmetic. It fully sets the clock back on the Vajpayee-Shourie idea and pleases the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh (RSS)/swadeshi ideologues.
Read our full coverage on Union Budget 2016

The tone of the speech and the detail also show a reformer in retreat. The loss in Bihar has forced a change in the National Democratic Aliance’s market positioning. Until last year, the prime minister was saying that the Mahatma Gandhi National Rural Employment Guarantee scheme was an acknowledgement of the state’s failure to create productive jobs and, therefore, a shame. He was right to say so and this promised a more reformist, entrepreneurial and non-povertarian outlook. This Budget speech, on the contrary, boasts of the highest-ever allocation to it.

The Budget is also the most important annual statement of a government’s intent on political economy. In those terms, it is a statement of a hard swing to old Congress-style agro-povertarianism. Parts of the Budget speech, particularly in the first half, could have come in a Budget speech from late Chaudhary Charan Singh. This is a political acknowledgement of rural distress and decline in wages. This has panicked the government into making what sounds like an impossible promise of doubling farmers’ incomes by 2022. Growth like that is unheard of in farming, particularly as the talk, even in this Budget, is more of organic farming than of new technologies, particularly in seeds. Farmers’ incomes cannot start growing at 15 per cent annually compounded in any case, and definitely not if your policies obsess over the fetishes of the RSS than embrace modern science. But that reckoning is still six years away. A change in emphasis now is probably a good political palliative - or the only plausible one.

The three areas of widely acknowledged good news — highways, power and railways — are the Modi government’s chosen engines of growth and investment. Each is led by a hard-working, modern, performance-oriented minister. The lesson, therefore, is simple. Even if you want to only improve the government and not minimise its role, you can need top-quality ministers. That this council has so few of them is a big cause for concern. The most important lesson of 21 months in power is that India is more complex than Gujarat, which a brilliant chief minister could carry just on his own shoulders. India needs a larger team, and ministries like agriculture, rural development, health and, indeed, human resources development also need firing. Does Modi accept that? The Budget can't tell us. Wait for the Cabinet reshuffle, if there is one.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by rsingh »

What is our GDP?
uddu
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by uddu »

Seems $2.2 Trillion.
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by sankum »

For taxing person EPF with Rs 15000/month income while gratuity payment of Rs 1.5 lakh as tax free is unfair and cruel.

It could have simply that EPF withdrawal of over Rs 1 Cr could have been taxed if they wanted to enforce pensions.
sankum
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by sankum »

$ 2.2 Trillion at the end of FY 2017.
Suraj
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Re: Budget 2016 - news & discussions

Post by Suraj »

It has been $2.2-2.5 trillion for the last 2 years, mainly on account of the INR-USD exchange rate movement compensating for nearly all the nominal increase in GDP in Rupees.
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