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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 09:50 
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Joined: 28 Jan 2008 04:16
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OT alert.

Shiv, I understand the point you are trying to make. However, I did not suggest that the whole IM community celebrates.
I could have used many other examples and yes they would have been impossible to believe or prove. For example, many muslims in Gujarat still believing that they were ripped off by Sardar Patel and Junagadh should have been part of pakistan. Instead, I choose something that somebody who has lived in Gujarat for some time would associate with my observations. Probably there are not that many Gujaratis on this board to back my opinion or I am not telling truth.

I am not saying that I am an expert on muslims in Gujarat either. Many of my observations are through my family and its business. Through this same business, I have learned to hate local police and politicians. Many people here probably would agree with what I would have to say about them but on the same token probably nobody would agree with me about anything I say about my experiences about muslims. I believe loyalties of many muslims can be traced to KSA and in derivative form to TSP. However, if somebody asked me whom I hate more, my answer would most likely be Hindus and that for many reasons. The majority of Hindus only care about money and business. Quite frankly if Hindus were not scared about loosing Laxmi, they probably would not even go to Mandir.

Mmany posters might be irritated by this conversation so I note your point and this would be my last post.

And to clarify, anything I wrote is my observation.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 10:03 
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Kaushal wrote:
I am slowly coming around to the view that the Indic (euphemism in this instance for hindu) is paralyzed by fear of the (jihadi ) Muslim.

darshan wrote:
The majority of Hindus only care about money and business. Quite frankly if Hindus were not scared about loosing Laxmi, they probably would not even go to Mandir.


Indic is unfortunately paralyzed by not only the fear of the jihadi, but Indic seems to be paralyzed by the fear of being Indic too. Unforutnately, Indic is slowly convincing himself that being an Indic is a burdensome baggage.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 10:30 
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I am not surprised Kaushal; when all Indians including Muslims can make that statement, India will be truely free.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 11:04 
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darshan,

you should not be afraid of/happy about anybody else's observations favourable or not. the forum become interesting only if somebody comments that may be comfortable or may be irritating.

moreover, i have learnt in BR that every piskological argument makes you stronger. every challenging argument makes you well informed. if you dont give knee jerk reactions, you will have to come out well planned and with strong arguments/facts/counter-piskological arguments. such things makes many forum members well informed about the situation that leads to situational awareness - most important 'guna' in information age.

so be like a pakka gujju and tell the members here that gujjus knew terrorism 400 years ago, 400 year before aam aadmi came to know about terrorism thru' kashmir and punjab happenings.

i agree with your observation that gujjus are money minded. by that logic most of the Ms of the world are Jihad Minded.

but compare your state with some states and you will find gujarat could at least produce some freedom fighters of national stature, scientists of class and statesman/businessmen/academicians etc. you will never be able to fight out unless you build on positives.

reading about this pig incident, i recollect an incident happened when i was in college:

once we heard some news that some Ms have hanged a killed/dead vulture at the gates of Shrinathji Havelis. all the mahajans and bahadurs of the town were furious. influential people pressurised the police and local administration to find out a culprit. police promised to bring the culprits by the evening and there were many hyper H students were standing at the gate of the temple with open (naagi talwar) swords.

in the evening the police officer came and asked the administrator of the haveli to talk in private. he told the adminstrator that the person who has hanged the dead bird was some H who had some altercation with the seth of the haveli. the seth had denied him some money for the supply the H in question made to the Haveli.

Swords were sheathed. (not to mention the embarrassment). Riot averted.

***

as far as the situation of amdavad and other towns of gujarat is concerned it is again the business that has tied both the communities to some extent. the area of disturbances are having M fanatics and fundamentalist of imported origin and have brainwashed their community. 9 out of 10 Gujju Ms, they are still having some connection with pukis and relatives in pukistan. till 80s and early ninties many Gujju M families/persons used to permanently settle in pukistan and no doubt are loyal to that land and there is nothing to deny as this is a fact. as on date, in many small towns you will find people stuck to puki radio broadcasts, mullahs from Iran and Iraq to further brain wash them - this was at peak when the Islamic Revolution was going on in Iran.

In the 80s i have heard from almost all the M shopkeeprs in my town about divine interventions when kafirs bombed their beloved county's towns/army/fizz-aaya/naval trawlers (Fakirs used to catch bombs dropped by Kafirs from Heaven in their Jholas and similar stories).

Later in every shia Ms shop you will only find AT Khomeni's pictures, Saddam Hussain was a hero of sunnis. needless to mention that Sam Bahadur Manekshaw was/is not their (M's) hero - i do not wonder why the congi netas did not pay much attention to the hero's death - it is obvious. the above is no different in Maharashtra.

***

The Shias (Agakhanis Khojas/Voras and Masidiya Khojas) were following many hindu traditions. they used to keep altenative Hindu names, Like Azim Premji (premji is a hindu name) , like Ramjan Ali Sundarji, Sundarji's son will be named Rehman, Rehman will name is son Samir. Memons were totally hinduised. Babis were never ready to call themselves muslims.

The things changed drastically and the reasons are unknown.

even with such a nice system in place, many of them swayed with M (and global M) sentiments and made/painted Gujarat unnecessarily communal. despite knowing such a horrible situation, many Hs and Ms still do business and participate in each others good/bad times and festivals.

you might have noticed that people used to again come together and do business after communal frenzies were over. you might have also noticed that how it was dangerous to move in certain M areas (especially sunni infested) even during day time.

***

Keep posting in BR and dont worry somebody supports you or not (though many people have left BR after Piskological harrassment - this is known to all, i will still request you to be there - learn to take advantage of adverse condition - learn from Namo)


Last edited by Murugan on 31 Jul 2008 11:15, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 11:14 
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Kaushal wrote:
I am slowly coming around to the view that the Indic (euphemism in this instance for hindu) is paralyzed by fear of the (jihadi ) Muslim.


Not just of the Jihadi Muslim, Indic is paralyzed by any other conflict as well. There is no apetite for taking on anyone, not just the jihadis.

While politicians and babus get blamed plenty, there is a lack of will to fight any war in the common people. If there wes the IRA in Northern Ireland, there was a counter movements of the Unionists. (Ultimately, the counter movement puts a check on the will to fight of the initiator. But that requires sacrifice.) If there is a PLO, there are hard dogged Zionists who farm their fields with AK-47 slung over living in a sea of Palis. When the Russians came in A'stan, the ordinary Afghans picked up weapons and fought a long hard battle. But in India we see seldom see counter movements. When the the Jihadis entered Kashmir, the Pandits just packed up and left, only to become pathetic refugees in Jammu. None among them took up arms and decide to dig in and fight it out. When the Muslim League demoed Direct Aaction Day, INC lost the will to fight for a united India and aggreed to a partition. When the opposing forces came, China went in to fight a long drawn civil war, rather than capitulate. When the time came, Americans fought a long & bloody civil war rather than bifurcate their nation. None in India were eager for a civil war, they just accepted partition and that was the end of their nation. (Americans had been in their land for only a few centuries, Indians have been in India since the dawn of history many many millenium ago. That is how deep our relationship is with our land.) When the Chinese took Aksai Chin and slapped us in 1962, we just accepted our fate and made peace with it. There was no concerted efforts to fight it out again. A self-respecting nation would go on a massive re-arming spree and fight another day. If the Chinese demand Arunachal, we negotiate with them.

That unfortunately is the truth of India. The problem is not just cops, babus, and politicians. It is us.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 11:22 
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Joined: 03 Oct 2002 11:31
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Surinder:

Spot On.

We have almost lost the will to Strike

We may be having deadly, extraordinary top of the line weapons and war fighting machinery but where is the will to use them.

Ab to sab log hindustan ki g**d maar rahe hai. nepali, bhutani, bangladeshi, srilanki, malaysian, americans, jihadis and all piskologists/media machines and sadele pukis are crossing over to our land sochte honge hindustaniyo ne tel bhi lagaya hoga...


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 11:32 
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surinder wrote:
Kaushal wrote:
I am slowly coming around to the view that the Indic (euphemism in this instance for hindu) is paralyzed by fear of the (jihadi ) Muslim.


Not just of the Jihadi Muslim, Indic is paralyzed by any other conflict as well. There is no apetite for taking on anyone, not just the jihadis.

While politicians and babus get blamed plenty, there is a lack of will to fight any war in the common people. If there wes the IRA in Northern Ireland, there was a counter movements of the Unionists. (Ultimately, the counter movement puts a check on the will to fight of the initiator. But that requires sacrifice.) If there is a PLO, there are hard dogged Zionists who farm their fields with AK-47 slung over living in a sea of Palis. When the Russians came in A'stan, the ordinary Afghans picked up weapons and fought a long hard battle. But in India we see seldom see counter movements. When the the Jihadis entered Kashmir, the Pandits just packed up and left, only to become pathetic refugees in Jammu. None among them took up arms and decide to dig in and fight it out. When the Muslim League demoed Direct Aaction Day, INC lost the will to fight for a united India and aggreed to a partition. When the opposing forces came, China went in to fight a long drawn civil war, rather than capitulate. When the time came, Americans fought a long & bloody civil war rather than bifurcate their nation. None in India were eager for a civil war, they just accepted partition and that was the end of their nation. (Americans had been in their land for only a few centuries, Indians have been in India since the dawn of history many many millenium ago. That is how deep our relationship is with our land.) When the Chinese took Aksai Chin and slapped us in 1962, we just accepted our fate and made peace with it. There was no concerted efforts to fight it out again. A self-respecting nation would go on a massive re-arming spree and fight another day. If the Chinese demand Arunachal, we negotiate with them.

That unfortunately is the truth of India. The problem is not just cops, babus, and politicians. It is us.


This observation is of generation only after the period of 1890s and later. The generation which became educated and elite is basically a British educated maculyte generation which sees the country as an extension of the Anglo American anglosphere. That is where the problem is. They do not have civilizational identity.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 11:51 
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Quote:
Al Qaeda imprints on Bangalore, Surat bombs
7/31/2008 11:24:57 AM

Days after the terror upheaveal, the first tangible signs of Al Qaeda's role in the Bangalore and Surat bombs are emerging.

According to intelligence sources, for the first time in India, the Integrated Circuit chips were used to assemble bombs in Bangalore and Surat, a technique perfected by the Qaeda-linked Indonesian terror group -- Jemaah Islamiyah.

Intelligence officials believe some local terrorists could have visited Indonesia for training - via Bangladesh.

This fact was first uncovered by the Special Task Force of Uttar Pradesh police during interrogation of Lashkar-e-Toiba (LeT) operatives last year.

Officials now suspect that while the terroists were successful in their first attempt to use the chips in Bangalore on July 25, but the chips used in the bombs in Surat created problems; giving rise to suspicion that the consignments for Bangalore and Surat had come from different places.

On July 26, terror struck Ahmedabad when 16 coordinated serial blasts ripped through the metropolis killing 50 people and injuring more than 200, a day after multiple explosions rocked Bangalore.

Twenty-one live bombs were found in Surat in the span of two days from the diamond hub of the city. All of them were defused.

Agencies trying to crack the modus operandi

Meanwhile, the investigating agencies are working on several premises to ascertain the reason for planting the bombs.

According to one line of investigation, the discovery of bombs from various parts of the diamond city indicates that terror modules may still be active in Surat, preparing for a future strike.

It could also mean that the terrorist outfits are unfazed by the heightened security in the state and could succeed in striking again.

Yet, others believe that the bombs could have also been placed in an attempt to mock Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi, as they were discovered from Varacha - the same place the CM visited an hour before the bombs were discovered.

And lastly, one cannot rule out the possibility of these bombs only serving as a smoke screen to divert attention from the investigations in the Ahmedabad blasts.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 12:01 
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acharya-ji

enlightening!

(the way out i think is to start all gurukul system - now the government will take care of gurukul - i believe. since the govt hs started acknowledging madrasa education, since the Kerala govt have even declared pension to retired madrasa teachers, i dont see any difficulty in starting traditional gurukuls in every village). hindus always fall in tertiary class in hindustan.


But It Beats me: Why the DDM is hell bent to malign Hindus and Accentuate the Ms and others? what could be the motives, who are behind this conspiracy - if it is? what could be the larger goals? why bongs are more in DDMs? why there is no opportunity lost to malign our police, out ATS, our Armed Forces, our Intelligence Agencies? why these all out efforts? that too in this congi ruled nation?

many questions. perhaps you may have few/all the answers/insights. Please share.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 12:37 
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narayanan wrote:
I would like to pose a question to all these postors.

Suppose we were to stipulate (just for purposes of argument), the following:
Quote:
Most people of "another community" are basically full of hate towards most of humanity, have no feeling of community with people who are of the "one community"


So what? Unless you advocate the "MooMoo Solution", which would rightfully get your ass kicked out of BRF and anywhere else that civilized people frequent, do you really see any easy solution to the security threats?

Unless the answer is "yes", I strongly suggest that it is a gross, irritating waste of forum space to keep ranting about how "another community" is bad.

Note that I am simply not going to argue that "most people are decent" etc. and may in fact agree that this is not the case.


What is a "MooMoo"solution?

How are you so sure that "would rightfully get your ass kicked out of BRF and anywhere else that civilized people frequent"?

Which is the authority that is deciding what is civilised society?

Let's not get personal!


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 13:02 
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arent these so called sophisticated "ICs" used in bombs merely something akin
to the old 555 timer chip seen in student IC labs? *one billion* units
are made per annum.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/555_timer_IC

I used it in student days though I cannot recall any details now. looks like the terrorists
did not read the textbooks properly.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 13:11 
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absolutely.

nothing sophisticated about it at all and i don't quite see the connection to Indonesia.

They need to track down at least one culprit before they can crack the case rather than taking wild guesses in the media.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 13:13 
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any cellphone repair or TV service center shop is more than adequately qualified
to make such a circuit. there must be lakhs of people in BLR alone who could
do it.

phoren TOT from philipines or indonesia is absolutely not necessary.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 13:50 
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All this brouhaha and still no major arrests.

Wah bhai wah, the cops are proving to be good for nothing. Bunch of idiots found wanting in every department.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 14:44 
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does anybody actually know what is meant by the "MooMoo solution" or is it just a catchy phrase whose proper meaning nobody knows but has a "feel" for ??


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 15:25 
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Please don't forget ISI being pet of both china & cia has upper hand over Indian Intel. Ultimately Indian intels have to do what the master in delhi tells them to do. The fumbling of indian intels on terrorism is stage managed and deliberate. Further yesterday's breakthr about culprits in pakistan is a clear tactic to divert attention from congress's involvement. those jihadis who executed it all form only half of entire chain of command. Can't stop thinking if the info about these scapegoats was provided by isi on behalf of cia's request.

Please remember who benefits from war between India-pak and social tensions in India. USA: weapon sales, china: weaken, distract India on world stage, Congress,SP: gain back scared muslims. If any riots happen the media psy-ops against bjp makes the ignorantly secular aam janta vote for congress. It is a big game. Pak-isi-jihadis are doing contract work for BIG players. Mayawati should be careful in coming days. Congress, CIA and chinese are playing various jihadi cells to achieve their own motives all around India.

There is too much anti-muslim ranting on discussion boards everywhere including this one. Possibly some of it started by congress thugs as well. The biggest problem is common bjp supports fall prey to these tactics without understanding the psy-ops. The common muslims fall prey to the hate rants as we all know.

congress is like shakuni, old, seasoned, sweet talking and covertly ruthless. Bjp is like young pandavs falling prey to shakuni's mayajal all the time. Same congress that nurtured hK, LTTE, bindranwale is now nurturing isi-jihadis and using them as a political tool in India. Same congress who with cia's help sacrified own rajiv. Same congress who with cia's help reversed 1960s JD wave with assassinations and us-dollars.

Nearer the elections expect more extreme psy-ops, more terror, possible mini-war with pakistan, big arm deals with US, reliance-tele getting big contracts and even sacrifice of own rajkumar-lady at hands of contract jihadis to generate massive sympathy wave. Don't forget the reservations bill. It will be raised soon in few months to gain back dalit votes from mayawati and bjp. Again as usual bjp supporters will fall prey to that game of congress as well by publicly staging protests against reservations. CNN-IBM, NDTV will interview those bjp leaders staging protests and telecast them as many times as possible.

btw did anyone notice: naming of Anil on so called jihadi's list just before trust vote? The best one was total mute of US media for first two days after bglr blasts. As if they got straight instructions from white house to keep quite. someone in cia surely knew that the bglr-ahmd blasts were just part of congress's domestic psy-ops against bjp's cash show.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 16:07 
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Singha wrote:
here is the article I referred to:

--------
http://article.nationalreview.com/?q=OW ... A0MGM0YmY=

Marriage and the Terror War
Better learn up on your anthropology if you want to understand the war.

By Stanley Kurtz


Found this article extremely interesting. However, it set me on to do a bit of Googling.

And here's what I found:

Quote:
The problem is that Kurtz gets it wrong. Or, rather, like an overzealous schoolboy, learns the lesson without understanding what he has learned. He relies on a pseudo-structuralist/structural-functionalist theory of "cultural rules" in which, apparently, humans robotically follow precepts without any say or agency in making their choices and living their lives. Such a theory of culture is not only retrograde, but ultimately un-anthropological. Since the 1970s, anthropologists have insisted that culture is not a rulebook of behavior, but rather a set of values and orientations that organize (but in no way determine) diverse social practices and allow people to make sense of the world around them. Moreover, anthropologists have emphasized that what people think (about their culture) and what they do are extremely different things altogether. To argue from a rule-based theory of kinship (putatively via the structuralism of Lévi-Strauss or the structural-functionalism of Murphy/Kasdan), while ignoring current anthropological thinking on the subject, is like mounting a biological argument from the basis of a theory of spontaneous generation.


Link


However, one thing is for sure, the theory certainly applies to Pakistan.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 16:45 
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narayanan, looks like headlines today has been reading your posts on BRF.
they will run an "investigative" special 'naxals training simi' in the evening.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 17:02 
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They all come around to waking up. Eventually. Usually too late. 8)

But it's interesting to note that it is "Naxals training SIMI". Catchy title, but the more accurate one would be "commie-pakis joined forces 10 years ago, now v r waking up".


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 17:46 
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ibnlive footage seems to confirm its a 555 timer chip (8 pins, 4 in each row).
using the chip serial# they might be able to trace which co initially purchased
it from the OEM. I guess the nearest factories for this are in the far east.
the manufacturer code will also be imprinted.

chances are a indian or pakistani co would have bought it wholesale then
fanned out to retail sellers (without any record in india ofcourse)


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 18:43 
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NDF activities raising suspicion
Wednesday July 30 2008 00:43 IST
M P Prashanth | ENS



KOZHIKODE: Last Saturday Deshabhimani daily carried a front page story with photograph of an NDF worker with a blade in his hand and blood oozing out of his neck.

The daily said it was one of the pictures of the training imparted to the NDF workers to make them hardcore terrorists. It said the training of the extremist organisation includes asking the cadres to cut their own neck and other parts of the body.

NDF leadership vehemently denied the allegation and has decided to move the court against the daily.

This is not the first time the organisation is facing the charge of giving ‘terror’ training to its workers.

In August, 2001, a bomb went off at Green Valley Foundation managed by the NDF leaders. The police officers who initially investigated the case vowed that it was an experiment in exploding bomb with a remote control device.

Later, all the accused in the case were acquitted. The NDF was also charged with imparting weapon training to its cadres. A group of NDF workers were caught while they were allegedly practising the use of weapons at a college ground in Palakkad.

Government introduced some restrictions for Karate training centres in the state following the suspicion that these centres were being used for weapon training.

M T Muhammad Ashraf, one of the accused in the Coimbatore blast case, had confessed to the police that there was firing range in Kozhikode where the cadres were trained.

Imam Ali, the dreaded terrorist who was killed by the Bangalore police, had given training in bomb making for some SIMI workers at a hideout in Malappuram.

There are also centres where the new recruits are indoctrinated. These organisations often function under the guise of centres for personality development courses, career guidance and religious teaching.

The Islamic extremists in the state find little propaganda material in the state as there were no incidents like the Gujarat riots here. The material they use are from other parts of the country which have been ripped through by communal riots.

The CDs used for indoctrination also contain the resistance movements in Palestine and Iraq.

Security agencies have noted that some Muslim extremists have infiltrated into trauma care training centres in Kerala.

They actively take part in the training for rescue and first aid. The actual intention hehind this is yet to be found out.
http://www.newindpress.com/NewsItems.asp?ID=IER20080729142219&Page=R&Title=Kerala&Topic=0&


I suppose its time to unlock Islamic Extremism thread or start a new thread " Spread of Terror tentacles in India "


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 18:45 
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After going thru the last 20-30 posts I am getting this very uncomfortable feeling –

The premise that Hindu society is paralyzed-in-fear is not only the reason for GOI’s inaction, because there is no political premium for taking decisive actions against a “particular community”, but also is the catalyst behind that “particular community’s” mass psychosis.

Let us take this scenario – I am an IM and am generally law abiding citizen. I use this country’s growing economy, education system, secular society to live as per my belief-system. That is I work hard, build wealth, marry multiple-woman (if I want) and have kids.

Now there is a Bangaluru or Ahmedabad kind of crisis. I have the following options:

• Help the society I live in… give any leads I know of to the police. But I know they cannot and will not take any action due to corruption and politics. Clear examples can be see in Delhi and AP govts. So what is the point in betraying my community’s interest?

• Further weaken the system… so that this society can be dominated by the philosophy my faith teaches… and since my faith cannot have any flaws, that itself is the solution for all these chaos.

IMHO, this is the current situation with the majority of IMs. They don’t see any value in participating in the current system because it doesn’t reward patriotism, honesty and secularism. It rewards bigotry.

So naturally anyone will prefer the stronger (Ideological as well as psychological) player, at least in the short term. And I don’t blame IMs for that. We only hope that the opponents grow over confident and commit military suicide by fighting overtly. But it is not going to happen in the near future… because they are too smart...

What Indic society can do to reverse this trend is

1. Demonstrate and propagate ideological superiority of Indic civilization over EJ’s and Wahabists
2. Demonstrate psychological strength and superiority by catching the perpetrators of these ghostly acts irrespective of their community. Give 2-3 years (or 20-30 court sessions) for the accused to prove not-guilty. Hang them if they cannot prove their innocence.

Then, only then we will see the peaceful section (majority) of IMs accepting and willing-to join the true secularism…


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 19:37 
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I would also suggest the unthinkable. Read what they write and see how THEY see their choices and loyalties. In particular, GOOGLE, say, "Kaleem Kawaja". This gent got a B.Tech from IIT KGP, then emigrated to the US (be sure to read his SON's description of that, not his own, to get the truth about mentality) and has been / is/ was working as a manager of something or other at a NASA Center near DC. Hardly a "deprived minority" or "disadvantaged person".

Rest after you GOOGLE and READ his writings and stuff that his followers write. Also, visit the "IndiaUnity" Yahoo group and enjoy browsing there (don't try registering because they kick out all who don't bow to one Kaleem Kawaja who posts there, (may be no relation of the one above) and other Authorities.

Then please come back here and educate the Admins why we need the BENIS dhaga restored, so that PROPERLY considered fatwas can be imparted to the Faithful.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 19:40 
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Rahul M wrote:
does anybody actually know what is meant by the "MooMoo solution" or is it just a catchy phrase whose proper meaning nobody knows but has a "feel" for ??


I will explain this offline Rahul - maybe I'll pmail you.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 19:48 
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oh yeah !
and why do i always forget that there are also some only strategists here who come to discuss good for all. But they are not patriotic. something like what gary kirstern is for the indian cricket team.
and sadly most of the smart IM are like that.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 20:09 
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Murugan wrote:
you might have also noticed that how it was dangerous to move in certain M areas (especially sunni infested) even during day time.


This is precisely the meaning I get from what Kaushal said. Hindus are basically afraid of Muslims (who might be jihadis) and will openly admit it.

Piskologically courage is an attitude as much as action. The attitude of indicating that Muslim areas are scary (to a particular person) has been posted more than once on BRF.

Kaushal wrote:
I am slowly coming around to the view that the Indic (euphemism in this instance for hindu) is paralyzed by fear of the (jihadi ) Muslim.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 20:14 
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RayC wrote:

What is a "MooMoo"solution?

How are you so sure that "would rightfully get your ass kicked out of BRF and anywhere else that civilized people frequent"?

Which is the authority that is deciding what is civilised society?

Let's not get personal!


RayC I will send you a private mail


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 21:30 
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I think 'MooMoo' refers to Moorthy Moothuswamy - you can put 2+2 together.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 21:38 
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narayanan wrote:
Also, visit the "IndiaUnity" Yahoo group and enjoy browsing there (don't try registering because they kick out all who don't bow to one Kaleem Kawaja who posts there, (may be no relation of the one above) and other Authorities.


Earlier, there was this talk of Naxals-SIMI relationship or something, right? IU is a place that is infested with foreign nationals. It is tough for Indic people to survive, till recently any post supporting the 'brahamanical religion" could get you banned. I hear things are little easier. If you are a commie, then the place is great. If you are a Bangaladeshi and want to include India into the "South Asia" or "South East Asia" or whatever groups, then it is swell place. If you want to talk about Manu smriti, pouring molten leads into dalits ear etc, then it is a great place. People will applaud your 'critical thinking'.

It is a place where they fear the fundamentalism from and of the majority more than the fundamentalism from and of the minorities.

Based on the past, it is questioned to find a religion that is more perverse or that which denigrates a fellow human being more than Hinduism. Scholars meet, and talking points are repeated.

The name is "IndiaUnity" but it is a playground to hash and rehash the flaws of Hinduism - the other Indic religions are left out for most part - because casteism does not play a major role.

It is actually a fun place. Some of you should join and engage in discussions.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 21:40 
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Moo Moo solution my refer to an idea being preached by MuthuswamyM, a former member of our forum whom shiv banned and N^3 accused of treason since he has advocating genocide of IMs.

hence moo moo solution is not acceptable to any civilized society.


Surinder,

the root cause of this behavior of Indian people is Hinduism, Jainism and Buddhism's influence on them for millenniums.

Hinduism: The varna system would let only Kshatriyas fight. If these kshatriya's died everyone else will simply either surrender or be ready to be chopped off like gajjar [carrot] mulli[don't know whats it called in English]. That is because it is ingrained in our mindset that fighting is only Kshatriya dharma [duty].

There is a verse in gita that is repeated twice for emphasis that it is better to perform ones own dharma imperfectly than to do others dharma perfectly or in a well performed way. It goes on to say destruction while performing ones own dharma is better for performing some one else duty is fraught with danger.

Consequently from hindu perspective fighting is restricted to only a limited set of people without whom others should surrender or simply accept whatever fate entails for them.



Jainism & Buddhism: Their influence on making us non violent is pretty obvious. Need not even go into details there. As far as I know I hardly see Buddha sanctioning violence as a mean under any circumstance.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 21:59 
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Quote:
There is a verse in gita that is repeated twice for emphasis that it is better to perform ones own dharma imperfectly than to do others dharma perfectly or in a well performed way. It goes on to say destruction while performing ones own dharma is better for performing some one else duty is fraught with danger.

Consequently from hindu perspective fighting is restricted to only a limited set of people without whom others should surrender or simply accept whatever fate entails for them.

You are going way OT here.
BTW, to the best of my knowledge Geeta does not recommend 'dharama' based on birth. Dharma is defined as your divinely ordained duty in consonance with your conscience. So a brahman Drona can take up arms just as much as any kshatriya.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 22:06 
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OT (whatever that means): this is the tragedy of yindoostan.

The original system was that those who would fight for the common safety and good of all were known and respected as Kshatriyas. Obviously they needed training in wielding the bow and arrow and the Mazhu and the Gada. So it became more and more specialized, and then they started putting on airs and allowing only their own family and friends to get admission to the schools, and so everyone else gave up and said: "fighting is the prerogative of the Kshatriyas". It was probably the equivalent of Gun Control, as in "only the Uniformed Militia shall carry automatic weapons". Wise. They probably had arrow-fights every day outside the Rooh Afza Saloon at high noon and it was becoming dangerous for the genteel public to cross Main Street at Mohenjodaro due to the risk of stray arrows fired by drunken Aryan amateurs hitting one in the musharraf.

As for the stuff in the BG about the sanctity of caste barriers etc., one has to take those with a lota full of salt. Remember that the BG was written NOT by the Al***** but by someone replying to the question: "What news from the front on TV?" Accordingly the sources are probably "embedded reporters" and they knew which side of their chappatis the ghee was on.

Ducking for cover now from all the trishools coming at me... :eek:


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 22:11 
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Time and again, any solution or discussion of solution leads to a discussion of Indic religions, traditions, past, present and future.

Quote:
Hinduism: The varna system would let only Kshatriyas fight. If these kshatriya's died everyone else will simply either surrender or be ready to be chopped off like gajjar [carrot] mulli[don't know whats it called in English]. That is because it is ingrained in our mindset that fighting is only Kshatriya dharma [duty].


Wrong. There were Brahmin commanders in the armies in the South. They have a title, it slips my mind right now - Brahmadiraja or something. Warfare was studied and taught by some brahmins.

Though virtues of Kashtriya troops might have been sung, Sudras could form troops and be part of the army. Even brahmins could participate. The Indic system, had its "ifs and buts" to sustain itself.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 22:24 
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Dronacharya (A Brahmin) fought in the Mahabharata. There were Shudra Kings (Ushinara, Kakshivat, etc.) fighting battles and intermarrying with other castes. Many tribes that came from the Shudra Varna eventually became Kshatriya....
The Vedas themselves were written predominantly by Kshatriyas.

Go back in history Satyakama the son of Jabali had no Gotra (unknown father!) yet he became one of the greatest teachers (Brahmin) in India.

Hindus are afraid of Jihadi Muslims because:

1. They know not their own Dharma. There are folks on this forum who for all their pro-Hindu stance are as alien to Sanathana Dharma as fishes are to space.

2. They know not the beliefs of the monotheists and especially of the fundamentalists who are turning out to become terrorists.

3. If you know neither yourself or the enemy - by Sun Tsu's dictum - the war is already lost!

PS: The next time sometime throws the "Manu Smrithi has this blahblah crap" at you.
Please understand your Dharma well enough to tell them:

Smrithis can be rewritten in Hindusim, Struthi cannot be rewritten.
You have the power to ask for a rewrite to the Smrithis -
In the Dharmic view life and society need new laws rewritten every yuga -
the ancient seers understood the actions of entrophy on a codified set of beliefs.
They allowed for correction every iteration when new knowledge accumulates.
If all Hindus decide to write a Smrithi that stated that no-rigid-based-on-birth-caste system, that is the new rule!


Last edited by Pulikeshi on 31 Jul 2008 22:35, edited 3 times in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 22:24 
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UnniArcha is the most admired civilian warrior in Kerala lore. Sister of Aromal Chekavar. Sent the obnoxious drunken Arab-trader type (other community) muggers skiing downhill on their musharrafs minus their lungis. Aromal Chekavar was not from a Kshatriya community, but basically the then-prevalent equivalent of Karate Instructor or Professional Dispute-Settling Swordsman. Died of wounds sustained in the Dispute-Settling Ring, which occurred because Cousin Chandu, who was a member of the CPI(ML/M), sold out to the enemy and replaced the pin connecting two pieces of his sword with a coconut leaf spine.

Chandu was executed by UnniArcha's kids (both were incredibly overfed - Prem Nazir and another potbellied actor, IIRC).


Last edited by enqyoob on 31 Jul 2008 22:50, edited 1 time in total.

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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 22:41 
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the last few posts have been royally OT but extremely interesting all the same.

should we have a thread on ancient India's social and military thinking and practice ?? (the two points are related, figure out how !)
quite a number of people seem to have something to say on the issue (I know I do !) and some others could be reticent afraid to derail the thread.

what do you people think ?

anyway, sumeet, if you could get hold of Arthashastra, it might change your view of who were supposed to fight in ancient India ! :wink:


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 23:09 
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Murugan wrote:
acharya-ji

enlightening!

(the way out i think is to start all gurukul system - now the government will take care of gurukul - i believe. since the govt hs started acknowledging madrasa education, since the Kerala govt have even declared pension to retired madrasa teachers, i dont see any difficulty in starting traditional gurukuls in every village). hindus always fall in tertiary class in hindustan.


But It Beats me: Why the DDM is hell bent to malign Hindus and Accentuate the Ms and others? what could be the motives, who are behind this conspiracy - if it is? what could be the larger goals? why bongs are more in DDMs? why there is no opportunity lost to malign our police, out ATS, our Armed Forces, our Intelligence Agencies? why these all out efforts? that too in this congi ruled nation?

many questions. perhaps you may have few/all the answers/insights. Please share.

We have gone through these discussion before. These are the topics of social engineering. Indian elite is a product of British colonial education - Maculyte generation which control the education AND the media.
So DDM is also a product of this generation and they have created a manufactured consent which controls how IMs should be project and how Hindus should be projected. The DDMs are also owned by the external enterprises which have connection to external EJs. No country has been controlled in the history like this.

The media, education, political philosphy(secularism) and policymaking are completely under the control of this generation.
The leadership does not want to take any risk.

Once you know this now read the para again and it will make sense

Quote:
While politicians and babus get blamed plenty, there is a lack of will to fight any war in the common people. If there wes the IRA in Northern Ireland, there was a counter movements of the Unionists. (Ultimately, the counter movement puts a check on the will to fight of the initiator. But that requires sacrifice.) If there is a PLO, there are hard dogged Zionists who farm their fields with AK-47 slung over living in a sea of Palis. When the Russians came in A'stan, the ordinary Afghans picked up weapons and fought a long hard battle.

But in India we see seldom see counter movements. When the the Jihadis entered Kashmir, the Pandits just packed up and left, only to become pathetic refugees in Jammu. None among them took up arms and decide to dig in and fight it out. When the Muslim League demoed Direct Aaction Day, INC lost the will to fight for a united India and aggreed to a partition. When the opposing forces came, China went in to fight a long drawn civil war, rather than capitulate. When the time came, Americans fought a long & bloody civil war rather than bifurcate their nation. None in India were eager for a civil war, they just accepted partition and that was the end of their nation. (Americans had been in their land for only a few centuries, Indians have been in India since the dawn of history many many millenium ago. That is how deep our relationship is with our land.)

When the Chinese took Aksai Chin and slapped us in 1962, we just accepted our fate and made peace with it. There was no concerted efforts to fight it out again. A self-respecting nation would go on a massive re-arming spree and fight another day. If the Chinese demand Arunachal, we negotiate with them.

That unfortunately is the truth of India. The problem is not just cops, babus, and politicians. It is us.


This observation is of generation only after the period of 1890s and later. The generation which became educated and elite is basically a British educated maculyte generation which sees the country as an extension of the Anglo American anglosphere. That is where the problem is. They do not have civilizational identity.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 23:19 
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shiv wrote:
RayC wrote:

What is a "MooMoo"solution?

How are you so sure that "would rightfully get your ass kicked out of BRF and anywhere else that civilized people frequent"?

Which is the authority that is deciding what is civilised society?

Let's not get personal!


RayC I will send you a private mail


Haven't got it either as a PM or on the email ID


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 23:28 
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RayC wrote:
shiv wrote:
RayC wrote:

What is a "MooMoo"solution?

How are you so sure that "would rightfully get your ass kicked out of BRF and anywhere else that civilized people frequent"?

Which is the authority that is deciding what is civilised society?

Let's not get personal!


RayC I will send you a private mail


Haven't got it either as a PM or on the email ID


Sorry - just sent a PM. Had a power outage earlier.


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 Post subject: Re: Blasts in Ahmedabad
PostPosted: 31 Jul 2008 23:30 
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Sumeet wrote:
Moo Moo solution my refer to an idea being preached by MuthuswamyM, a former member of our forum whom shiv banned and N^3 accused of treason since he has advocating genocide of IMs.

hence moo moo solution is not acceptable to any civilized society..


Not just genocide. Sedition and an Indian Armed Forces coup to topple the government. On BR that is a bit much.


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