Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

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Vikram_S
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Vikram_S »

Mandeep, this is not a flame war but discussion with BijuShet
Since there is no PM on the board I am replying here

Delete this post if you wish
BijuShet wrote:I did not write the above to imply that you are a BJP supporter but meant to imply that if BJP, the main opposition party (and who will directly benefit from the failures of the current GoI), can find the strength to support the current GoI then I hope you will find some strength too within you to support the Govt of India. We do not have much chances of success if we are not united at this hour . There will be elections in the near future for most Indians to show their displeasure to the current GoI.
Biju

once again -- why should I or anyone care what the BJP says or does? does LK Advani travel in a bus and does ABV sit in office without a single security guard?
as far as i am concerned all are on the same footpath and all should be judged equally.

I meant that Vivek and you do not necessarily agree with the politics practised by the current GoI and you guys agruing about political preferences does not help this thread. As for the comments about chicken hawks sitting in US/Japan behind their keyboard talking of politics, let me confess I am one too. While you may not know but many NRI's have most of their families living in India. Let me give you 2 anecdotal evidence of how terrorism affects us directly. In Jul, 2003 there was a bomb blast in a Best bus in Mumbai Rediff link. At the time my wife was in India at my parents place and was less than a mile away from this incident and heard the loud blast first hand. Even during the recent Mumbai attacks there was blast less than a mile from my in-laws place and they heard it first hand. Distance from India may save my behind, but it does not spare my family nor does it spare me when i visit. We all want a safe and secure India for our selves and our familes. How we go about achieving it is what we are here to discuss and learn from each other.
boss, all that is fine, but do you guys understand the level of terrorism right now?

it is non stop. it is not once in a time attack as in 1990's. it is happening every 2 months.

and it is not just happening to "family members" so that i can make a phone call. it affects our daily life, it makes people afraid and helpless.

in past year i will not even get into the number of times i have had to find out about x, y and all to see what is happening.

during mumbai attack i had to be on phone line for 3 hours to find out about my best friend who goes regularly to one of the places. before this many of us escaped ...and this has happened again and again and there is NO concern from GOI whatsoever.

none of us like leaving in fear and being told by arrogant politicians that some stupid idealogy is more important

that is the disgust that i have.

it is beyond disgust to be told by someone who was referenced in post above, arrogantly not to dither and be united and have "national pride" and that we are "biased" because party in power right now is criticized.

if it was BJP or SJP or DJP or LDP or whatever and they were so incompetent, they should also have shoes thrown at their office

when i turn on TV antulay is appearing laughing and saying he does not regret anything
before this honorable HM Shivraj Patil refused to do anything about BD immigration
so called peace process brought TSP people into India in numbers and now they dont know where these people are
even Maoist were given free pass by HM Shivraj Patil

i mean i have never seen such incompetent GOI and i have seen so many GOI that i thought i saw everything

and i as indian citizen who has chosen to be in india out of whatever reason am fed up

28 years since 1980 of terrorism and stupid GOI is standing lota in hand in front of US, UK CHINA saying TSP is responsible

so yes, there is limit to stupidity

if this continues to be the case no amount of calls to national pride and unity will save this country.

i have already said once before that even defence services are not immune to morale issues. even they are not infinite to keep dying for a worthless system.

i have personally seen to what level this country treats so called defence martyrs once enough is extracted.

all i am saying is this stupid resilience, stupid comments on national unity, this and other things have been exploited by successive admin to do NOTHING

and to be told to have "national pride" is sick joke
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by BijuShet »

OT Post Alert: (My last one Vikramji)
Your anguish is shared by most Indians. The disgust you have for the current GoI can only find its resolution at the ballot box so what is the point in lamenting against the current GoI on this thread. you will achieve nothing other than getting a few sympthetic ears from like minded folks. My point is that even if the current GoI is incompetent, we cannot stop being vigilant. If the GoI is pushing for a new idea like the Afghan deployment and I am convinced that it may help us achieve our long term goals then I support these actions. It also means that I try to understand its full ramifications. Try to learn from others about what these would mean to furthering Indian security goals and econmic interests. I am not asking you to give up your anger against the GoI but to reserve that anger for the polls. I ask of you to help us understand/analyse how such a move will help towards an Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Victor »

If unkil says yes, then Indians have a license to shoot and bomb pakis and keedas 24/7 and everyone understands that the Indians will be at least as merciless and bloodthirsty as the Americans were right after 9/11. If unkil says no, then pakis and keedas will be forced to kill each other, leaving the Eastern frontier open. Brilliant bamboo.

Chance of unkil saying yes is not negligible today since with its diplomatic offensive, India has conclusively proven the pakis to be such double-dealing liars and cheats that not even the Americans can cover them up any more. It will be difficult to say no out of hand. Also, Bush would get to leave with a major foreign policy success.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by brihaspati »

Friends,
I posted this in 27th December in the precursor thread which is now archived: I am quoting it again here for dicussion, as the possibility of an Indian offer in this regard has come up. But I would highly appreciate if BRfites can analyze what I wrote and point out problems and constructive criticisms - I did not have many responses before.
I know that many BRfites would disapprove :but I have raised this strategic issue before - why should not India join the "war against terror" from the Afghan side, specifically taking up the Pak-Taleb area sandwiched between Afghan and Pak? On the pain of repeatation, I will again list the logic:

(1) Even though this is the scenario probably hoped for by the US tacticians, to get India involved against the Al-Qaeda and the Taliban in Afghan+Pak, we can no longer pretend that by not engaging the QaedaTalebPaki we can reduce our chances of becoming targets of Islamic terror.

(2) The US in any case will push on to keep control of North-Eastern Afghanistan - as its main geopolitical thrust was to prevent Russia+China moving onto the middle east in their bid to reach the oil and tropical Indian Ocean. I would even go as far as to speculate that the second war on Iraq was actually a diversionary tactics to isolate and protect Saudi Arabia from this Sino-Russian south-western directional down-move and actually gain a forward base in the tactically significant North -east Afghanistan, where it can prevent the joining up of Sino-Russia with Iran. If India tags along with a specific strategic aim of deriving maximum geo-political advantage for its own long term plans, what is wrong with it?

(3) India, by joining the "fight against terror" will shed the political disadvantages it faces now in appearing to attack only a so-called nation, Pakistan. It will then be attacking "stateless" terror, not any particular "nation".

(4) Indian presence in the Pashtun lands bordering Pak, can be a good test of the perception that Pashtun "nationalism" is the main driving factor behind supporting the Talebs, and a "promise" of aiding in Pashtun 2nationalism" can wean them away from teh Talebs. In that case, if such a "nation" is realized, India will have a long term "friend" on its northern border (yes I mean after incorporation of Pak).

(5) Indian activity in this region, at one stroke, brings the POK, the Chitrali "non-state actors", the Talebs as well as Pakistani bases within Indian striking range. It also creates pressure on the western front, and if craefully played by India can actually split the Pak forces into two.

(6) When opportunity arises, this position can be used to surround Pakjab in a pincer coming down from north and moving up from the south from India that also cuts off entrance to the POK. This also isolates Sind and Baloch, and properly played out political declarations of support or recognition for an independent Baloch state within Pak occupied Baloch should create a good barrier of support reaching Pakjab from the South.

(7) This presence also helps in the facing up to ultimately bigger threat of China and the Chinese coming in through the Karakorums, and of India being able to create trouble in the North East of China to split the Red Army in two different widely separated war arenas when Tibet is activated simultaneously. Unless India reaches up to these forward positions, it cannot realize the strategically important goals of establishing a free Tibet (this also surrounds Nepal and cuts off supply routes to North Eastern separatists).

The only logic against this is of course our shame in being seen "falling under" US wings, and so-called increased escalation of Islamic terror-but neither of which we are now able to avoid anyway in public and international discourse. Why not take advantage of it?
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by ldev »

milindc wrote:
ldev wrote:Brilliant move!! I knew that MMS would come through with out of the box thinking and he will be able to secure a political consensus on this move other than for the commies. Bravo!
Before we open champagne in honor of MMS, we need to make sure that it's GoI position. Per Rangudu, this is being thought-out by sources outside GoI.
Even if it is a trial balloon, it is a brilliant move. The thought of 120,000 Indian troops will:

1. Gladden the hearts and minds :) of the US and Nato troops in Afghanistan today who are under attack who will put a lot of pressure on "US strategists" who are still wondering if they can afford to "antigonize" Pakistan.

2. It will get a lot of support from Russia and Iran as India is seen as one country besides them which does not want hardcore Sunni Muslims to takeover Afghanistan via the Pakistan's Taliban proxies.

3. It will make the Pakistan Army wonder whether to deploy to the Eastern or the Western border of the country.

If India is able to provide logistics for this effort via Iran, it will undoubtedly help in a process of rapproachment between the US and Iran with India acting as an intermediary.

So, no champagne, but certainly great appreciation for what is a game changing move.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by shynee »

Last edited by shynee on 30 Dec 2008 02:51, edited 1 time in total.
John Snow
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by John Snow »

Brilliant move!! I knew that MMS would come through with out of the box thinking and he will be able to secure a political consensus on this move other than for the commies. Bravo!
MMS missed a (monthly) period his GOI announced, the period went by (on Dec 26th), Some says he is pregnant with ideas, some one says he conceived a 120,000 troops for Afghan area to deliver, we are already celeberating a 'Saviour' is born. Did he sp(q)eak any where.

Paarklam as Kamaraj used to say.

Anyway we are so starved of gesture to tackle terror even when rumor has it we are happy & gay
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Mort Walker »

Again, this is a pipe dream. Both TSP and Unkil's Culinary Institute have plenty of dirty laundry on each other and they in no way want anyone else to find out. It would be a major embarrassment from a geopolitical perspective if TSP spills the beans. They might threaten to if Unkil even entertains the thought of Indian troops. I'm sure several influential people in the US would want it, but the establishment will go against it.

The Orbat.com report has little credibility.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by ldev »

MMS missed a (monthly) period
JS,

Who am I to compete with a master of double entendre (MDD) such as yourself :)
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by John Snow »

Image

be realistic folks, how do we support logistics, we cant airlift To Rajastan in one month
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Mort Walker »

Iran is unpredictable and can't really be relied on. One is resupply by air into Tajikistan. For heavy support ships would go from India to Turkey via the Suez Canal and then by road/rail into central Asia. The central Asia route would mean supplies will take at least 4 weeks for delivery. Or ship to Russia and then use the old Soviet rail network into Tajikistan which may mean supplies would be 4-6 weeks out.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Lalmohan »

well, the only practical way to get and keep 120,000 men in Afghanistan for us is to open a land corridor through POK and link up with Northern Alliance in Afghanistan...
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Mort Walker »

be realistic folks, how do we support logistics, we cant airlift To Rajastan in one month
Simple. Capture PoK and then carry supplies directly to Afghanistan to support the 120K Indian troops.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by vsudhir »

Umrao jaan garu,
be realistic folks, how do we support logistics, we cant airlift To Rajastan in one month
Here's moi reasoning onlee... pls to bear with another simpleton theory. Kindly sample these links first:

India’s BRO to build Iran-Afghan highway (IE, May 2003)
BRO carried out a recce and survey last month for construction of the 250-km road in Afghanistan between Delaram and Zaranj on the border with Iran and a project report is being prepared, Gen Suri told reporters here on the eve of 43rd raising day of the force.

He said construction work is expected to start by August and is targeted to be completed in four years.


Then this one:

Taliban kill Indian hostage : BRO road project to go on (Hindu, Nov'05)
The Taliban had given an ultimatum to the BRO to pull out of the road construction project within 48 hours, otherwise Kutty would be killed. A note pinned to the body of Kutty said Indians should get out of their country. “This [Afghanistan] is not India or America”, the note said. Announcing the news of his execution, a Taliban spokesman, Qari Mohammed Yusuf telephoned the Reuters news agency and claimed that he had been executed as the BRO did not agree to stop work.
...
The road from Delaram to Zaranj will shorten the distance from Kabul to the port of Chah Bahar [Iran] and onto Central Asia by about 1000 kilometres. While facilitating India’s access to Central Asia, the project will reduce Pakistan’s importance for both Afghanistan and India. Pakistan has the only available route for trade with the Gulf region and Central Asia. The 210-kilometre-long the BRO of India has undertaken to construct would join a garland of national highways. So far, Afghanistan is dependent on Pakistani ports as the shortest route to receive and send goods. The 84 million dollar project would allow Indian goods to travel to Afghanistan and further to Central Asia via a shorter route from Chah Bahar port. Likewise, Afghanistan can use this Iranian port for its import-export trade. So far, Indian exporters and Government agencies have been transfering goods through a longer route via Bandar Abbas port in Iran, with Pakistan not allowing transit of Indian goods.
Then this one:

India not to take up new road projects in Afghanistan (May'08)
The BRO has completed about 80 percent of the work on the 219-km road from Zaranj to Delaram on the Iran-Afghanistan border and construction of the last 30 km is going on. The road will link the highways of the land-locked country to Iranian ports and open the Afghan market to Indian goods as currently there are no transit facilities through Pakistan.

“By July this year we are likely to pull out from Afghanistan after finishing the project,” Nanda said.
Ok, now, but for the vote agianst Iran Dilli made under unkil pressure when 123 was hanging in the balance, and the minor matter of the cancellation of the IPI, Dilli and Iran both don;t relish the prospect of a sunni force like the tspa backed taleban running Afghanistan - a sure prospect of the wily brit moves of bringing the 'good taliban' into the power structure thru negotiations goes anywhere.

Moi thinks, Dilli and tehran can work out a logistics route for resupplying Indian troops via the cha bahar port and the zaranj road junction. Heck, perhaps, dilli might even facilitate a detente between tehran and DC, who knows?

Again, just throwing ideas out there. Who knows what 'em powers-that-be are thinking.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Victor »

We have a base in Tajikstan--Farkhor/Ayni.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by skher »

Mort Walker wrote:Again, this is a pipe dream. Both TSP and Unkil's Culinary Institute have plenty of dirty laundry on each other and they in no way want anyone else to find out. It would be a major embarrassment from a geopolitical perspective if TSP spills the beans. They might threaten to if Unkil even entertains the thought of Indian troops. I'm sure several influential people in the US would want it, but the establishment will go against it.

The Orbat.com report has little credibility.
Mort Walker wrote:Again, this is a pipe dream. Both TSP and Unkil's Culinary Institute have plenty of dirty laundry on each other and they in no way want anyone else to find out. It would be a major embarrassment from a geopolitical perspective if TSP spills the beans. They might threaten to if Unkil even entertains the thought of Indian troops. I'm sure several influential people in the US would want it, but the establishment will go against it.

The Orbat.com report has little credibility.
Nope...not necessarily a pipe dream.I'm very sure that after Jan 20 things will be quite different and Unkil would suddenly want to show the world its dirty linen and do some head rolling.

Why? It's politics....someone is really itching to teach "the maverick" and his best buddy a lesson.

Also,Obama would want finish off a majority of the 3 billion $ a day leak in his budget...at least for show.
IMHO,he would re-direct the troops to Iraq finish off the business as quickly as possible and re-deploy a small stationary force back into afghanistan.

To help here,I'm sure he wouldn't hesitate to invite Russians,Tajiks and Iranians to the party..each doing little little things.

He might oppose outsourcing in business,but it's extremely hard to do so in the military front.

Unkil has so many ways of regaining influence so it wouldn't be worried.....like keeping alive the distraction of the Kashmir issue as leverage for this Afghani help.
be realistic folks, how do we support logistics, we cant airlift To Rajastan in one month
Who's talking airlifting or just one month?
Sure,airlifts would be supplementary.Also,it's not just our logistics - a dozen other countries are there as well.

What an idea,Lalmohanji.Two birds with one stone.

How does one avoid stingers en route to tajikistan? Otherwise,the most feasible plan because of Farkhor.

Also,about FANA....is America prepared for that? Obama was and remains categorical about Kashmir.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by hnair »

Why should we Indians think out solutions on what is essentially NATO's problem? Let them figure out how they can supply us. And if the scale of troop deployment is true, they will find a way one way or other, much to China's chagrin. Re-drawn maps are a western specialty :D

And this is the best thing to happen to Pakistan:
- Baitullah will get his fake wish of "fighting the injuns", right at his doorstep.
- Pak army does not have to redeploy to east
- Bigger octroi from a bigger NATO logistic traffic.
- India can try to control pashtuns and balochis through its good offices, once Pakistan addresses the "root causes".
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by samuel »

Is airlift of a large force to Tajikistan possible? If not, we have to swing through Iran or a few states in CAR/RU region. Possible, but very long prep necessary, I think.

But once stationed in Tajikistan, we could come down SSE via Northern Afghanistan and Up from Kashmir NNW to work on PoK while the US works further south?


It's the day of the clacking pincers, no one thought all this through before?
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by brihaspati »

All within the "imagination" game :

What about threatening Pak that if it does not accept Indian presence/troop-supply movement to the northern front - an independent nation of Baluchistan will be recognized. If Baluchistan is formed, there has to be agreement/condition with its leaders that Indian presence and troop movements will be allowed.

If Pak doesn't agree, and the proposal for Baluchistan goes to the UN security council - China/Rus can oppose, but it will mean end of any of their dreams of Baloch "friendship" - and India-US still has the the Tajik route - in fact the Baloch card could be played even on Iran - they are quite worried about their side of the Baloch bargain too!
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by samuel »

When PM Vajpayee offered Indian troops to the ISAF, what was the plan to get them there? When India offers them now, what does it suppose the route is...this can't be an unsolved mystery after the proposal is made, can it?
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Surya »

Gentlemen and the odd lady lurker


Lets calm down a bit.

I do not think in principle anyone (barring commies )will oppose this idea.

I think what those who are unhappy , really are raising are general concerns about our troops

- Logistically
- politically (internal)
- what we get in return (outside of what we create ourselves)
- the red lines if someone tries to put our troops in harms way beyond the odd shooting and bombing

I think thats what needs to be discussed.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by samuel »

except the americans, no one opposed it earlier, either. The ball is still in their court, if it wasn't just pie chucking by some babu on a trip to the usa.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by D_Chopra »

US will try to win Afghan with NATO and wont concede any strategic advantage to india. Total Afgan troop strength of US + NATO is 80K. If they accept 120K from India, the focus will be more on india and its actions. Unkil will not be comfortable with such huge army operating under independent control. Some 10 - 20 k troops from india seems a logical number that both unkil and pakis will be comfortable with.

First of all I doubt whether unkil will accept any troops at all. Its a huge costly logistical nightmare for india and will prove a tough time for unkil to bring pakis on board. Unkil will think twice before giving india a foot hold in one of the key future energy transit routes from turkmenistan and central asia. Unkil is more concerned about priming india for accessing its rich local market and keeping the cow alive and healthy for milking. Its concerned about needing a strategic counter weight to the chinks. For all this, it needs to keep indians studying and working and saving and spending. Definitely not fighting.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by brihaspati »

Unkil will think twice before giving india a foot hold in one of the key future energy transit routes from turkmenistan and central asia. Unkil is more concerned about priming india for accessing its rich local market and keeping the cow alive and healthy for milking. Its concerned about needing a strategic counter weight to the chinks. For all this, it needs to keep indians studying and working and saving and spending.
Exactly - it is this dependence that India fails to utilize as leverage on US. India can flatly refuse "all those goodies" to US unless India is allowed to operate on the Afghan border. Pak can bargain with much less to offer, but India hesiatates maybe out of "ethical" or "moral" considerations :mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Tilak »

I think the talk of India "offering" to send troops to Afghanistan, is too vague and after having watched the Unkil-TSP nexus.. all these years.. I have my own doubts... And even if it turns out to be true.. how it would affect pakjabis and their lil piglets L-e-t /JuD


**OLD NEWS**: but here it goes ...

India not invited to send troops to Afghanistan: US commander
November 19th, 2008 - 11:27 pm ICT by IANS -
New York, Nov 19 (IANS) The US joint commander of NATO’s International Security Assistance Force (ISAF) in Afghanistan, General David McKiernan, Tuesday clarified that India has not been approached by the United States to send its troops to the troubled country. “That is not true,” McKiernan said during the course of his interaction with members of the Atlantic Council - a Washington-headquartered think tank for NATO countries.

McKiernan said this question was posed to him early this week in Islamabad during an interaction with a group of 70 Pakistani parliamentarians.

Meeting at the residence of US Ambassador to Pakistan Anne W. Patterson, the Pakistan MPs, he said, wanted to know if the United States has invited India to send 1,000 troops to Afghanistan by Christmas.

“A couple of the questions I got were why you Americans came to Afghanistan when it was so peaceful. Before you got there. So I have long tried to answer that and, a long way and then another one was we understand that you’ve invited a thousand Indian soldiers to serve in Afghanistan by Christmas. Some of you are looking at me like you believe that. But no, that’s not true,” the general said.

However, diplomatic sources told IANS that the United States indeed had made a request to India early this year to send its troops to Afghanistan as part of the US-led fight against terrorism in Afghanistan.

The issue was forcefully raised during the visit of Indian Defence Minister A.K. Antony to Washington in September. The proposal was politely but firmly rejected, with India apparently arguing that this was not in its long-term national and geo-political interests.

Sources said the issue is believed to have briefly occurred raised during the meeting of US President George W Bush and Indian Prime Minister Manmohan Singh at the White House in last week of September. However, on all occasions, whenever such a request has come, India has out rightly rejected it, informed sources said.

For quite some time now, the US has been pushing for more Indian involvement in Afghanistan. India, as of now, is majorly involved in the developmental and reconstruction activities of Afghanistan. It is one of the largest donors to Afghanistan.

India has often said it would send its troops overseas only as UN peacekeepers.
Some 8,000 Indian troops currently serve under the UN flag in various hotspots around the world, including in the Congo, Ethiopia/Eritrea, Lebanon and the Golan Heights.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by NRao »

be realistic folks, how do we support logistics, we cant airlift To Rajastan in one month
One option: the "logistics support agreement" with the US?

I am not sure how to take this 120,000 troop "offer", apparently it is in the thinking phase. However, i would support it.
India not invited to send troops to Afghanistan: US commander
November 19th, 2008 - 11:27 pm ICT by IANS -
That is pre-Nov 26, 2008. For the foreseeable future we should expect Indians to put forth proposals that would have been deemed out of the spectrum even a few weeks ago.

IF such an offer comes about I think the U.S Military would welcome it, I am not so sure about the US political groups.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by NRao »

The issue was forcefully raised during the visit of Indian Defence Minister A.K. Antony to Washington in September. The proposal was politely but firmly rejected, with India apparently arguing that this was not in its long-term national and geo-political interests.
The Geo-political interests have changed dramatically and thus the long-term national interests.

The question is how far is the US willing to allow India (IF the US allows India) to go. I would think that the thought of splitting Pakistan must be on the collective minds of the US. However, India should tell them that the cost of this offer is the decimation of PA+ISI.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Tilak »

NRao wrote: One option: the "logistics support agreement" with the US?
FWIW : According to The News(pakistan), pakistan(~which I doubt) requested Iran to help out with "diffusing tensions". And Ahmedinejad has accepted to visit India shortly.

As far as logistics, Iran(Chahbar-Zaranj-Delaram) highway which India built with the help of Iran would be the easiest, for India. I dont think US would blay ball.. as I said at this moment these are all "unconfirmed".. and US can do a roundabout, once Pakis send their troops back.. Mard-e-Momineen Kiyanee(photoshop be upon him) :rotfl: :rotfl: has already started downhill skiing , after meeting the chinese yesterday..
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by shiv »

Mandeep wrote:The flame war on this thread is to cease forthwith. All concerned please be warned.
Best is to individually mark all the off topic posts and move them all to a temp thread and trash that thread

Someone was asking how we wil keep our troops supplied in Afghanistan

I ask, in return, which nation stood by the USSR when they entered Afghanistan?Russia can be asked to return the favor to an old friend :D
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Shreeman »

Tilak wrote:
NRao wrote: One option: the "logistics support agreement" with the US?
FWIW : According to The News(pakistan), pakistan(~which I doubt) requested Iran to help out with "diffusing tensions". And Ahmedinejad has accepted to visit India shortly.

As far as logistics, Iran(Chahbar-Zaranj-Delaram) highway which India built with the help of Iran would be the easiest, for India. I dont think US would blay ball.. as I said at this moment these are all "unconfirmed".. and US can do a roundabout, once Pakis send their troops back.. Mard-e-Momineen Kiyanee(photoshop be upon him) :rotfl: :rotfl: has already started downhill skiing , after meeting the chinese yesterday..
Well, then. Its the lesser of two evils. Sign a mutual defense agreement with Hitlerinijad that gives you bases in Iran. Say bye bye to Israel, but Bakis will be pissing in their sleep for generations after that.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by NRao »

A financial analyst on CNBC, today, stated that we can expect Israel and India to do what ever they need to do (in their regions), BEFORE Obamas inauguration - so that Obama does nto consider it a slap in his face (as he put it). One of the reasons he gave as to why the US markets may not go up till Obama moves to D.C!!!!!

Interesting.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by SaiK »

trivia:

what is ALL INDIA TOLL-FREE Terror Help-line?
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by John Snow »

There are two ways to go about

1) Baniayan technology

2) Chanikyan Technology


Under 1) TSP used 25 terrorists to kill about 200 plus citizens, trained Commissioned officers NCOs and police. Very cheap way to do what it beleives and lives for.

We need to bring our costs less than this.

Under 2) We need to set aside 15- 20 Billions dollars.

War is expensive for the citizen but very profitable to Babus and middle men. Become one is my advise :mrgreen:
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by shiv »

Tilak wrote:I]India not invited to send troops to Afghanistan: US commander[/b]
November 19th, 2008 - 11:27 pm ICT by IANS -
India does not need to send even an army cook to Afghanistan

All that India needs to do is to say "We are ready to send 100,000 troops to Afghanistan. Modalities are being worked out"

That is all. You meet a pretty girl. You like her. You need to tell her that. You don't sit back and wonder whether mummy and aunty will vote for her or for you.

Admins will have to pardon me.

I see great psy-ops value in this..

Watch the forum..
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by SaiK »

fear of rejection!?
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Karan Dixit »

India offers US 120,000 troops for Afghanistan
Now, Pakistan will be less enthusiatic to move its troop from its eastern border.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Guddu »

John Snow wrote:Image

be realistic folks, how do we support logistics, we cant airlift To Rajastan in one month
If this were to materialize, we would have to agree to be under US command to some extent. The US would have to provide logistical support and $. While this may initially sound outrageous, the Brits were under US command in Iraq, and they functioned quite independently in Basra. As discussed by Stratfor, this alternative route will likely not be thro Iran or Russia, but through Georgia and some other countries. If India were to make such an offer, the Pukis would do everything they can to oppose it for it would make them irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. The US can use this to pressurize Pak. From what I understand US and Indian interests coincide better long term. With the Pukis its a one sided relation ship, they only take with nothing to offer in return.
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Guddu »

This excerpt from Strat...Dec 30.

"Mutually assured destruction: Though Pakistan’s small, crude and low-yield arsenal could indeed be devastating, it is insufficient to threaten India with total destruction. While Indian delivery systems can range every corner of Pakistan, New Delhi enjoys immense strategic depth that Islamabad cannot match with any of its current delivery systems. India’s arsenal is more mature and more robust than Pakistan’s. Thus, Islamabad’s first-use policy is actually defensive in nature; it is a deterrent against Indian aggression that, in the end, Pakistan knows it cannot win.
But first-use is also a policy that not only the Indian military, but Indian society at large, is well aware of. It would be a deliberate choice for Pakistan to explicitly remind its arch-rival of something it already was keenly aware of during a tense conversation in the midst of a crisis.

It is, of course, the benefit of being a nuclear power that when the going gets tough, you can draw a line in the sand and wave the nuclear card. It is hardly a guaranteed defense, but it will certainly give your adversary pause. Ultimately, it did not deter the Chinese from moving forces into North Korea in 1950 or the Syrians and Egyptians from invading Israel in 1973 (which, at that point, was known to have nuclear weapons). In fact, it didn’t deter Pakistan from conducting a bold military operation in the 1999 Kargil war, nor did it prevent the two South Asian rivals from coming to a near-nuclear confrontation in 2002 after a militant attack on the Indian parliament. It may not ultimately deter India now. Islamabad is probably not willing to escalate to nuclear war over a few Indian airstrikes, when the price for nuclear escalation would be an inevitable and devastating nuclear reprisal from New Delhi, and India can be fairly confident of this fact.

But the question, now that Pakistan appears to have drawn a very clear line in the sand, is how will India respond? How will the world community move to de-escalate a crisis that no one — not India, not Pakistan, not anyone else — is interested in seeing deteriorate into a nuclear exchange (however unlikely this remains in practice)?

There is a problem with a weaker nuclear power playing this card when neither its neighboring arch-rival nor the world’s sole superpower has any interest in escalating nuclear tensions: The threat itself might go too far. While it may succeed in getting India to take a step back and re-evaluate, it may also drive the Indians and Americans to consider a bilateral strategic deal. It also leaves India — and the United States — contemplating just how hard it might be to take the Pakistani deterrent out of the equation. And removing a nuclear power’s nuclear power is a profoundly dangerous proposition in and of itself."
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by Mayura »

negi wrote:Prilliant indeed, IRAN and RU will solemnly aid India in its war after all we will be on deputation for Unkil's witch hunt . As for Rangadu sir... all the BRFites want Kangress GOI voted out and article 370 revoked but how much of it is true reflection of India's mandate , your references too are anecdotal.
I was wondering, why will Iran help India in its war???
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Re: Indian Response to Terrorism after Mumbai

Post by asprinzl »

Indian troops to Afghanistan? I say...BRING IT ON!!
Why shouldn't India send her soldiers to Afghania? Aftar all that piece of real estate at one time in history was part of the Indic sphere was it not? It was also part of Chandragupta-Mauryan empire. The Paktuns are part of the Sanskritic family. Historically India has a right to be there.
Then, looking at the invasion by Gaznavi, why shouldn't Indian troops return the favor. I say bring it on. Togather with the soldiers please do send in tons of Bollywood dvds and tons of Bollywood culture. Impart them generously to the Afghan populace. For every dvd-video stall the Taliban burns down, distribute freely ten times that to the people. Build temples for Hindu soldiers wherever they are stationed. Perform loud and colorful pooja and Invite the Afghans and share the Divali festivities with them. If possible also introduce the Hollli celeberation to the Aghans. If nothing comes off it at least the goats would be grateful. Remind them of their ancient past long before Islam came and turned them into beasts. In the meantime bring more Bollywood culture into Afghanistan and impart it generously to the people.

Raj Kapoor is God there. "Sangam" is an unbelivable phenomena there. Have a "Sangam" night and show the movie in an open air cinema (ofcourse after a thorough security sweep). Even the local Taliban chief would creep in to see the movie that he so much enjoyed when it first came to the local screen when he was young. The movie would bring so much tears in the eyes of the Taliban chief that for three days his eyes would not dry ensuring three days of peace. To make matters worse for the Taliban, just keep playing the most sentimental song from the movie (Dost Dost Nah Raha) on the most powerful loud speaker. Even the Taliban's donkey would have its heart melting.

Honestly folks....you guys need to understand the power Raj Kapoor (after all he is a Paktun Hindu right?) and Sangam had over the people of Middle East, Iran, Afghanistan and even Israel. I have heard Iraqi Jews saying that the whole of Baghdad came to a standstill and the ticket lines stretched to miles. It was the same in Teheran, Damascus, Amman, Cairo, Cassablanca, Bukhara, Istanbul, Kabul, Peshawar, Karachi, Rawalpindi, lahore, Kuala lumpur, Jakarta and even Tel Aviv. Few movies in history had such magical effect on so many people from so many background.

Indian troops + Raj Kapoor + Sangam + Vigianti Malah = Potent Combo

(Anyway, where do I get a good copy of this movie in New York City?)

Avram
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