Bharat Rakshak

It's so timid of GoI showing the public what they know instead of showing the action they should have taken.
These mofos ,instead of ,releasing 7 hr tapes on Headlines Today should have atleast done a seven hour bombing on bakistan.
Can anyone find how much GoI was part of this conspiracy?Americans played it smart , from tipping off India months in advance to burrying this entire issue dead.I don't expect anything from these politicians and the bureaucrats but even the armed forces have let this country down.

There is a strong possibility with all those Vickers revelations that there were plots within plots and MKN was part of the plot along with MMS. Only thing is they were thinking it was a way to entice the TSP establishment while all along there was a bigger plot going on from US side.

I posted thsi on Feb., 4th, 09, in the Mumbai Terrorist attack timeline thread....

Unkil has strage ways

TSP was prepared with equipment, training from unkils man power ( as is being done as we speak )
India was tipped
Leaders slept
People wept
Unkil Laughed
TSP rejoiced

Om jaya jagadish Swami (MK) Narayan

Mai moorakh

Thoo Rakshak....

Mangalam

Who recorded this conversation and provided to India? was it Indian intelligence agency OR CIA? Was this recording happening real-time. OR did we receive the conversation after the incident was over? If it was real time was Army listening to instructions being given to the terrorists in action, and did they OR did they not utilize that information to set up decoys and neutralize the edge?

If army was listening to this live then perhaps Pakis knew that they are being taped, yet they chose to continue.. This shows how audacious they have become and that they need some big-time ass-spanking. Don't we have system to track down the location of the call which is being tapped by us?

We could have launched the air strikes and/or missile attacks on the probable locations in Pakistan then and there itself. If we were recording this conversation live as it was happening and were able to locate caller's position in pakistan, it was the biggest mistake and a huge loss of opportunity to launch an attack and gain an edge over TSP.

If it was such a meticulously planned operation, in all probability, TSP army must have deployed few missiles and aircrafts ready for retaliation, just in case India chose to launch surgical strikes to eliminate the handlers.

If this was being recorded by FBI guys real time, it is the biggest betrayal of Unkil that they chose to divulge this crucial piece of information after the tragedy took place and did not help India to avert it.

x-posting from other forum



UPA/Congress may want to do a symbolic strike at TSP before the election to take the wind out of BJP's campaign. There was also a news item about Sonia asking her partymen to prepare for countering the terror campaign. Will Uncle and TSP help?

>>Israeli diplomat based in the US via a (Indian??) translator.

The translator was a certain Mr. Vishwanath, a Mumbai-born Indian Jew, now based in New York.

JEM garu what does your Crystal ball say about the action being contemplated towards TSP.
Hope you have watched GPS Fareed Zakaria and Imran Khan in intimate talk yesterday?
TIA

Have been surfing channels on idesitv but all the new channels are just going berserk with the Oscars. So lame. Did someone record the news report?

If you are talking about the Pakistani handlers and all,
here is part of the video - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJtTf7r01zg
I got the next link from the video's text .

Rest can be found here - http://indiatoday.intoday.in/index.php?option=com_magazine&opt=section&sectionid=86&secid=42&videoid=30261&start_bottom=0&ptype=video#
Our media considers Oscars given to Slumdog Millionaire bigger than 26/11, our media is just pathetic...

May be just a conspiracy theory.. But here it is.

Did they choose to release this newsbite today when oscars were given to Slumdog? Is the oscars just a cover-up to increase the popularity of US amongst Indians and suppress the increasing discontent among Indians? To induce the feel-good amongst Indians so that they are pacified due to their national ego being assuaged on stage of Oscars...

the truth is that AR Rahman had been winning awards for a long time, why do Oscars and Golden Globe make all the other awards seem so small?
Rahman had been making great music since a long long time, Slumdog millionaire is certainly not his best work, not even a good work if you see Rahman's standards...
While Rahman has even been awarded the national award, the media didn't post a single news then...
When a "gora" gave us an award, we all went crazy, we all went crazy as if we won a war against pakistan... We are really dogs, atleast the people who considered the oscar awards a pride for India, an advice to all those people - go watch Taare Zameen Par and Slumdog Millionaire, under no circumstances can Slumdog Millionaire come even close to TZP. Oh wait, TZP didn't win oscars because it doesn't show India full of rapists, druglords, gangsters, fanatic hindus, women traffickers, po*nkings and child abusers. Lets face it, the image that every westerner has of india is that it is full of rapists, druglords, gangsters, fanatic hindus, women traffickers, po*n kings and child abusers.
Our media is just pathetic, the TOI page is full of Oscar news, more news is published about the oscars than compared with news of 26/11 on 27th November 2008.

But, lets get back to the topic, before the admins get mad... and I apologize for going off-topic...

Thanks for the info, JEM-avare.

I somehow seemed to have missed the earlier news of the terrorists having negotiated with the Israelis and came to know of it only after listening to the tapes.

No. This is simply a lie. Sorry. And please, this thread is about an issue way more important than some oscar, some SDM, some inferiority complexes. Kindly keep the discussion on oscar etc. in nukkad.

Wow! I recently talked to a female colleague who was just recently in India and saw all its poverty and such and came away with an overwhelmingly positive opinion of our desh. I can't decide if I should or at the above characterization.

Anyway, this is not the thread for such stuff.

Pak to get voice recordings from India... I wonder if it will ask Kasab next...?
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/Pak-seeks-voice-recordings-of-Kasabs-handlers/articleshow/4180627.cms

Farcical comedy at its pathetic best!
What all is TSP investigating on UPAs behalf?

Handing over tapes, means handing over knowledge on our tech and capabilities. I hope this decision was well thought out. Why don't we just hand it over to an independent authority, to do the forensic analysis, that way we could protect our techniques.

handing over tapes is not a big deal since the conversations took place on ordinary GSM phones and not any satellite or VoIP phones.

>>I hope this decision was well thought out.

Relax guys... once we get going (and that is usually the problem, to get going), the attention to detail etc is almost of paranoid proportions...

http://www.outlookindia.com/full.asp?fo ... tics&sid=4

Jaswant Singh on 26/11 etc...

Spinster saar,

In my version of BRF hot air, there are a number of things to take into account when looking at the situation:

Government does not like to act in haste. Generally the system is incapable of it and specifically government prefers to act as it is normally inclined - i.e. to let all other options play out. Violent confrontation is really the last resort. Some might consider this a weakness. Government does not mind much. So it will take its time.

I think everybody will agree that the official statements from GOI have been tougher than has been the norm, one would even say crudely but deservedly blunt in some cases. However, given the magnitude of the terrorist strike and the exact nature of it – in particular the hands-on role played by the Pakistani military, whether serving or retired – there is a consensus that a redline has been breached, it seems to me, and that statements alone will not do. Public opinion is agitated, but not to the extent that reflexive action is overwhelmingly demanded.

Next to watch is the information management. A steady stream of leaks and calibrated statements have occurred which has kept this thing in the public eye. One might say it is to optimise posturing ahead of the elections, but it is more likely that politicians understand that such a thing can be a double-edged sword. So it does not seem to be primarily aimed at electoral considerations. Nevertheless, for instance, the 7-hour tape leak is not likely to have just happened only because one journalist had good contacts somewhere in the intelligence bureaucracy. There clearly was intent to share.

These are just some examples, and of course in parallel the engagement with Pakistan government (Zardari + the military’s new monkey Gilani) is going on. I personally would not take seriously the argument that the military was “not ready”. Maybe a certain set of results were required by government, and the military said in that case you must give us time to prepare for and produce that outcome. Even that is unlikely IMHO, but possible.

India can be a very hard state when it comes to certain issues, although we are a soft state in general and government can be indecisive or slow to make up its mind. Soft conduct for the most part does not mean an inability to act hard, however – and we have been unbending on certain issues considered critical. Our model is fairly effective for our circumstances and well within the limits of our power, perhaps some might say too much within the limits. Still, in future, other countries may find that our way of doing things it is effective for them as well – if they are prepared to take the long view.

It appears that government has a certain set of deliverables expected from Pakistan and the message has been conveyed. If those deliverables are not forthcoming, speaking very generally, we can expect that the internal situation in Pakistan will get very messy – not that it needs a lot of help, but some gentle nudges here and there won’t hurt at all. No one will stand up and acknowledge anything. But the game that Pakistan is playing is not new, and not one that we cannot play. Perhaps even play better. It may be argued that government does not have the balls for it. My personal view is that it does.

In short, India will extract a price from Pakistan for this perfidy. Rest assured. It may not be in the manner we want, i.e. not a crushing and visibly violent victory of some kind, but it will come and it will be sufficiently satisfying. Other governments are well aware that we can be stubborn mofos once a point of no return is reached, or they should be by now. Some consideration will be given to the interests of third parties, but it will not have a determining effect on whatever we choose to do. Therefore, it is in their interests to take whatever action is required to ensure that these deliverables are forthcoming. Clearly, such action is being taken – although on BR many of our members may not see it in quite those terms.

Can it all go pear-shaped? Certainly, it can. But then we can be quite confident that our Arab wannabe neighbor with a central asian dick up its rear will present us with another opportunity. The idiots who pass for strategists in their country will surely think up some other shenanigan, kill a few hundred more and tell the fools who look up to them that they have struck yet another blow for Islam…

One way or the other, they will not let our desire for vengeance go unsated.

(I wish I had the time to do an analysis of the government response and statements since 26/11. People often confuse media and expert comment or speculation with government position, and the situation is not helped by the press which tries to twist the language in such a way that often the difference is hardly discernible).

PS - I missed Imran on GPS.

PPS - Pls don't go only by what you see in the press on government officials. It can safely be assumed that the moral integrity of media people is no more or less than that of politicians or bureaucrats. There are serving people being badly maligned on BRF who are not unaware of it and are unable to defend themselves publicly. They may not deserve it.

JEM, do you have a prediction for when a response that is satisfactory in some visible way will be delivered? Do you think the GOI is pushing for some visible victory (however small) before the elections?

True. But weren't the sims fitted with some VoIP chip and the actual calls were being made through VoIP?

Govt quietly drops plans for NSA-led taskforce
22 Feb 2009, 0046 hrs IST, Vishwa Mohan, TNN

JEM Saar ,Thanks for a ringing endorsement of GOI, I also got an optimistic sense from your post in the very very long run GOI will wake up and act, especially protect its people from terror , ok if that is too much expect, atleast a token response will ensue.

This is all for GOI , but disappoint from you post stems from the fact that you have not even tangentially touched upon what is that this GOI and its able NSA veteran Anantha Sayanam MK Narayanan going to do?

It is the third monthly shradha for the heroes and civilians killed in Mumbai Massacre this week. I don’t see any encouraging signs do you other than bhashan after bhashan and pouring expressing of gratitude for unkil having allegedly leaning on TSP. Is this super MKN and his boss MMS envision to be India?

Spinster used to lamblast Jasso Mithaiwala, but our NSA Ananthasayanam MK Narayanan turned out to be super Chai Biscootwala .

“There are serving people being badly maligned on BRF who are not unaware of it and are unable to defend themselves publicly. They may not deserve it.”

No they don’t have to defend themselves, they are paid to defend the Nation and Indian citizens. If anybody were to be in his shoes he would have quit else heads would have rolled.

Sorry for the delay in rejoinder, needless to say you and I have to work for Chai Biscoot unlike our NSA

The Indian babucracy hasa severe way of dealing with failure. MKN is walking dead or "jivaa shavam". He wont do anything but go thru the motions. Sure they wont fire him or anything but even the peon wont pass him the chai!

Similar criticism was made of Brajesh Mishra as well - an excellent NSA imho, and a patriot to the core. The story posted by Tilak is interesting. Read what has actually happened. One there is opinion "an indication of Narayanan's declining stock post 26/11" and "Narayanan only playing second fiddle"...

Then, there is fact: "Both the home minister and the NSA have been jointly working on what the PM had suggested. Both of them are meeting on a daily basis" (I don't know about daily, but anyways)... and "One of the first decisions Chidambaram took after taking over as home minister was to ask Narayanan and the RAW chief to be present in North Block during the daily intelligence briefing"

MKN was one of the first to offer to quit. The offer was refused. Many interpretations have been made about the reason for this... focused mainly on political reasons.

If you go back to pre-26/11 you will find that his take on Pakistan is not very different from BRF and stated in quite undiplomatic terms. Remember that the role of NSA is just that. The NSA has no power to force implementation within our system.

In any case, our problem is not primarily with individuals - although certainly there are exceptions, and one head that rolled at least was well worth it. Our problem is institutional lethargy, lack of an overall sense of urgency with regard to anything. But things are moving ahead, a bit faster ...

More later when I can...

SHODA (Standard Hot Air Disclaimers Apply)

>>JEM, do you have a prediction for when a response that is satisfactory in some visible way will be delivered?

No...I'm not well enough informed.

>>Do you think the GOI is pushing for some visible victory (however small) before the elections?

I have no primary sources. My hot air is only from what I read in open source. I don't think either party wants to touch this issue with a bargepole - at least not in any meaningful way. Both have skeletons. Neither is perfect, and neither wants to commit. Politics as usual. There will some rhetoric.

BTW, observe the reactions of the head honchos of the BJP to the way UPA. Very reasonable, all considered. Not beyond acceptable boundaries, i.e. par for the course politix.

We are stable boys and girls. Watch Slumdog

Actually thats the only thing I am watching carefully -- and despite all the piranha and aquarium stuff happening -- this is where BJP is being soft on the govt. very soft. Much softer than the nuke deal.

This is my only flickering candle of hope in the turbulent times.

Snowji,

There is an ancient tamizh saying that comes to mind "Arasan andrey kollvan, deivam nindru kollum" - meaning "The King will kill on the same day, God will wait and kill". I am reminded of that saying. The GOI is godly in its behaviour?

JEM,

I too feel that this time that there is tremendous amount of preparation going on and there will be retribution. This is like 71. The wait is exasperating for all concerned. But there is something going on and the increasing desperation of Pakistan is no accident. There are already some jhapads outside of public view that has been delivered and I believe that the US/West who have interceded on the behalf of the "civilian" administration of pakistan are given a last chance to deliver.

But let us also be clear about somethings. The final retribution against pakistan may or may not be an all out war. This will be an irregular warfare fought across multiple theatres. I think the GOI is preparing for this. Be that as it may.

What is indeed lacking is a clear and public articulation of what we want from Pakistan and what will happen if this is not done by them. There has to be a clear timeline and a set of actions that will be activated when there is no compliance. This is not there.

What is also lacking is a sense of independence of thought and reliance on others to do the job. The GOI should clearly and unambigously state that we are not bothered about what the world thinks about pakistan and its role. It is really disturbing to see how the GOI is trying to accommodate every possible senstivity and request from the US/West and other allies. Such outsourcing of taking retribution is galling to say the least.

The present administration stands guilty of the above. It has not demonstrated the leadership and statesmanship that was required. The Indian public and polity would have rallied around the government despite its other shortcomings if they had taken the fight to Pakistan. They have lost credibility and opportunity because of this.

Hopefully your optimism will come through. I am still waiting.

Just my ramble. Take it for what it is worth

>>It has not demonstrated the leadership and statesmanship that was required. The Indian public and polity would have rallied around the government despite its other shortcomings if they had taken the fight to Pakistan. They have lost credibility and opportunity because of this.

I agree, but I am not complaining much as I would have no problem with a change in government right about now. The silly psychofancy of the Congresswallas is something I find disgustingly repulsive. On the other hand, not that much room for optimism on the other side either. Still...

>>Hopefully your optimism will come through. I am still waiting.

So am I boss.

But I am quite confident that my view is not wholly off the mark.

BTW guys new footage of the ISI's homeboys inside the Taj was released yesterday, don't know if someone posted a youtube link or something. Its in colour, guys wandering around casually with towels draped over their shoulders. One guy with baseball cap turned back to front (like your regular young guy perhaps out for some nookie with his GF). Amazingly relaxed.

So there is clearly some effort to keep public's mind on the matter.

If they throw the charge sheet at him it will kill him!

Death by chargesheet.

One charge against Kasab is that he trespassed into a Railway Station without a valid ticket (platform ticket or journey ticket) . This charge if proven gets a maximum prison sentence of 6 months.

Causing commotion and disturbence of peace is the highest charges that can be established rest all are encounter killings according WKK and PCUL layers and jethmalani.

(Note that kasab is living, but jethmalini will argue he is emotinally dead!)

Any idea on what these "jhapads outside publice view" were?

By demanding a visible response from GoI we are unnecessarily constraining its response options. Why should response be "shock-n-awe"? So that every one can see on TV, enjoying pop corn? Why should the response be conventional? There is no point slapping a Paki when he is expecting it. It is better to cut his legs, which he might not be expecting.

The problem with GoI is that if it were to further make the Pakis stew in their own juices, the _approach_ does not have the necessary "oomp" factor and we jingos get disappointed by that. But there is a valid critiscism in what Umrao jaan is stating. Based on present posture of Pranbda and company one cannot say whether they are busy with chai-biscuit or whether they are screwing the TSP establishment. Also the past record of last 5 years does not help in that regard.

Since 26/11, TSP's stock in the world has gone down to such an extent that pandas themselves have no confidence in extracting the principle lend to them. Their Saudi overlords are also preferring to keep their dhirams in their sand castles rather than use that to purchase more Paki slaves. TSPA has just had to face a defeat in their own country and its own stock has gone down in the eyes of its people. These are tangible gains. But are these gains due to some strategy of dilli billies or they were to happen by default? Did Bhisma pitamahs already foresaw the Swat surrender or they are just as clueless as us? I don't know.

The reason why the itch is becoming irresistible to scratch is that the perpetrators of 26/11 are still at large. There is no evidence that their capabilities to replay has diminished to any extent.

Hve you not heard the slogan ( for Sprite)

Image is everything!

Sometimes overt action is required this was the time and we missed the boat, so no amount of spin can mask the reality.

In addition, TSPA needs an overt jhapad to bring about a realignment of forces inside TSP. Its not a modern thought but is essential keeping in view the mind set of the TSPA. All US moves are to preserve the institutional image and standing of TSPA vis a vis TSP.