Mangalyaan: ISRO's Mars Orbiter Mission

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Sep 2014 03:13

Jugaad engineering: How India created the world's cheapest Mars mission

These women helped power India’s mission to Mars

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Sep 2014 03:31

nice to see all MOM mangals. a nice beginning will complete one auspicious-cycle only after 108 missions.

shall we say: thank you MOMs?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Sep 2014 03:39

Matrimc,
I too was thinking of the Star Trek Voyager premise. Good call. AWMATA and all that.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Sep 2014 04:26

matrimc wrote:..I like the ida of sending the craft out into deep space rather than crashed even if we do not receive signals after certain distance..drifting ..intelligent life ...not alone ..a fly by and take pictures of ..line of work.

+1
actually +2, we don't pollute the mars env with MOM parts.
+3, it is more dharmic to drift her towards deep space and escape the solar system.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 25 Sep 2014 04:32

The only problem is the farther away the craft is from the sun, the lower the power it would get from the sun. So you would need a nuclear reactor/radioactive-thermal-generator-device-thing to generate energy as it goes deeper into space.

Also there may not be enough delta-V budget to launch Mangalyaan into deep space.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Sep 2014 04:48

the point was it is still better to drift into deep space as signature from desh[just look at the pisskology factor alone], than destroy it into mars.

we can do the drops and rover experiments on the moon first.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Sep 2014 05:11

svinayak wrote:Jugaad engineering: How India created the world's cheapest Mars mission

I hate this term "Jugaad Engineering". This gives the vibe that it was some shoddily cobbled together mission, cutting corners slumdog style. The goras and their gunga-din chaprasis like that aerospace scientist from Washington DC have been harping on this very thing. Cobbled together, my mush. MOM was no jugaad, it was rigorous, efficient, top notch science and engineering which made it successful. Not some spit & twine jugaad.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Sep 2014 05:14

pandyan wrote:http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 366888.cms
Isro’s agent Mars: The name is Arunan
Arun Ram,TNN | Sep 25, 2014, 02.30 AM IST

Nice article on Mangalyaan project director Arunan.

The mechanical engineering graduate from Coimbatore Institute of Technology attributes the mission's success to complex mathematics and simple thinking. Simplicity comes naturally to Arunan who is from a middleclass family in Tirunelveli.His father Subbiah, a school headmaster, inculcated the scientific spirit in him. "The other inspiration has been my fatherin-law Nambi Narayanan, a former Isro scientist who was a pioneer in India's liquid propulsion systems," Arunan says.
Entire nation is proud of you sir!

Interesting to note that he is son-in-law of Shri. Nambi Narayanan! Must be a very very proud moment for the former scientist.

Where are all those high funda IITians who were supposed to be the cream of our crop? Probably off writing "cutting edge" JavaScript for FaceBook.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 25 Sep 2014 05:21

.I like the ida of sending the craft out into deep space rather than crashed even if we do not receive signals after certain distance..drifting ..intelligent life ...not alone ..a fly by and take pictures of ..line of work. ...
+1
actually +2, we don't pollute the mars env with MOM parts.
+3, it is more dharmic to drift her towards deep space and escape the solar system.

The only problem is delta-V required would be at least something like 10 Km/Sec...
(point to note: this is about 10 times MOI delta-V requirement which was about 1. Km/Sec)
(And the fuel needed would be 10x or more (something like half a ton - which mom does not have

)

Dharmik or not, MOM is going to remain in the solar system for next million years or so, if not longer

(virtually 99.99% of all such natural or artificial moons act that way many many million years)

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 25 Sep 2014 05:23

India's Mars mission is Asia's pride: China.

China today expressed rare praise for India saying the successful launch of the satellite to Mars was a "pride of Asia". The praise is significant because it comes amid strain in the relationship caused the border standoff between the two countries even after a "successful visit" to India by Chinese president Xi Jinping.

"We congratulate India on Mars satellite entering orbit successfully," Hua Chunying, Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman said on Wednesday.

"This is pride of India and the pride of Asia, and a landmark progress in humankind's exploration of the outer space. So we congratulate India on that"

China has not yet sent a mission to Mars making this one of the few areas where India has stolen the lead in Asia. China successfully sent robots to land on the moon last year becoming the first Asian country to achieve this feat.

But it has not attempted going to the red planet. Hua also indicated China might be interested in enhancing cooperation with in the area of satellite research.

"We are willing to work with the world for peaceful development of the outer space and make our contribution to sustainable development and long term peace of outer space," she said.

The spokeswoman said China was in favour of peaceful development of the outer space, and carries out cooperation with other countries in this field.

partha · Post by **partha** » 25 Sep 2014 05:52

Raja Bose wrote:
svinayak wrote:Jugaad engineering: How India created the world's cheapest Mars mission
I hate this term "Jugaad Engineering". This gives the vibe that it was some shoddily cobbled together mission, cutting corners slumdog style. The goras and their gunga-din chaprasis like that aerospace scientist from Washington DC have been harping on this very thing. Cobbled together, my mush. MOM was no jugaad, it was rigorous, efficient, top notch science and engineering which made it successful. Not some spit & twine jugaad.

Expect no better from scroll.in. You're right. MOM was no jugaad. It was full of clever engineering solutions to hard problems. Using extensive computer simulation to make sure the design was right and build only one model to reduce cost, reusing tested design and components from Chandrayaan and the best of all was the slingshot mechanism to overcome the limitation of less powerful engine. Not sure where is jugaad in all this. Truly innovative. I hope someone from ISRO writes a strong rebuttal to that jugaad piece. One can't go to Mars with jugaad. The headline writer is clueless.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 25 Sep 2014 05:55

I would say that the entire field of Engineering is Jugaad. Jugaad with the laws of physics

. But yes, the moron who wrote up that piece has no clue about Jugaad or about Engineering.

What the Macaulayputra meant by it was "it was below the western standard", when the west does Jugaad in science we call it Engineering Achievement. When we do it we call it Jugaad and screw-driver engineering.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 25 Sep 2014 05:56

matrimc wrote:AmberG: Thanks for the gentle rebuke. ...

Sorry, there was no intent to rebuke of any kind (even gentle

).. just exchanging some ideas and commenting on things which I think are very helpful.

..The other possibility is a fly by and take pictures of Saturn and in fact become part of rthe rings. Not sure whether any of this is possible as I have no domain expertise (sodo not know the calculations even in orders of magnitude). All calculations are unti free only in my line of work.

Please do see, if you already do not know, those two simple formulas I posted. You can get all the answers... better than 'order of magnitude'... likely within 1% of actual values, if you want to estimate delta-V, or time it will take etc... all you need is those two formulas I posted before.

(Only part which will change, is, of course, adjust the value of k for Mars to Sun (if you are working on interplanetary trajectory) or earth (if you are dealing with earth satellites). k of course = GM.

(For example these two formulas would give you a very good estimate for time of flight of MOM, or how much delta-V was needed at any particular stage.. or velocity (and distance) of MOM at any point of time etc..)

(All you will need is a simple calculator, if you are not fast enough to do it in your head

)

Hope this helps...

Vadivel · Post by **Vadivel** » 25 Sep 2014 06:00

Raja Bose wrote:
svinayak wrote:Jugaad engineering: How India created the world's cheapest Mars mission
I hate this term "Jugaad Engineering". This gives the vibe that it was some shoddily cobbled together mission, cutting corners slumdog style. The goras and their gunga-din chaprasis like that aerospace scientist from Washington DC have been harping on this very thing. Cobbled together, my mush. MOM was no jugaad, it was rigorous, efficient, top notch science and engineering which made it successful. Not some spit & twine jugaad.

Why hate it, keep the name but improve on it and rebrand it to "high quality, smart and frugal engineering" in years to come. Just like "German Engineering" or "Japanese quality". With "Jugaad" being exclusive hindi word, other countries cannot copy it easily. And I am being serious.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 25 Sep 2014 06:01

If Khanate does it it is termed Innovation and if we do it it is disparagingly called Jugaad

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 25 Sep 2014 06:01

I was listening to קול ישראל (Voice of Israel). They just broadcast a bland, matter-of-fact statement. Indians successfully completed their Mars mission. The people of Israel congratulate them on their success. Wish them luck. Blah! Blah! That is all.

And here is the Haaretz (Israel's Labour mouthpiece, which also focusses a lot on the world outside Israel). And they had to add the obligatory jerk-ishness

http://www.haaretz.com/life/science-medicine/1.617563

It's also a major feat for the developing country of 1.2 billion people, most of whom are poor.

What the deuce does the poverty have to do with the Mars mission? I wonder if there is a kind of jerkishness that gets added whenever any news report about India goes to an editor whose brains are addled by Leftist education.

Vadivel · Post by **Vadivel** » 25 Sep 2014 06:04

Expect no better from scroll.in. You're right. MOM was no jugaad. It was full of clever engineering solutions to hard problems. Using extensive computer simulation to make sure the design was right and build only one model to reduce cost, reusing tested design and components from Chandrayaan and the best of all was the slingshot mechanism to overcome the limitation of less powerful engine. Not sure where is jugaad in all this. Truly innovative. I hope someone from ISRO writes a strong rebuttal to that jugaad piece. One can't go to Mars with jugaad. The headline writer is clueless.

Juggad = "clever solutions to hard problems" + "Truly innovative" + "reduce cost"

Ironically the indians are calling it Juggad, the west have not used that word afaik.

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 25 Sep 2014 06:07

svinayak wrote:ISRO signed an agreement with China National Space Administration on Friday to cooperate in research and development of various satellites.

Hope this is not similar to agreements chinese setup in other fields, e.g. software technology agreements with western cos. Once a CEO told me that when they setup a software agreement with their chinese counterpart, the very first thing the chinese asked that the software code be sent to Bai-jing for analysis

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Sep 2014 06:30

Raja Bose wrote: Where are all those high funda IITians who were supposed to be the cream of our crop? Probably off writing "cutting edge" JavaScript for FaceBook.

ouch! you will be booked at the face value now by the iiteans.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 25 Sep 2014 06:32

I have a challenge to all those who are
a) annoyed because some body commented some thing somewhere ..
b) annoying others by commenting something here which at best be described as OT..

Why not use the energy to design below (see details below) which may help the next probe to Mars..

Please note:
- There is $20,000 reward/grant, if the design is good
- It is a doable Engineering/juggad type challenge..

Some background -

Landing a spacecraft on Mars is no small feat. But after MOM's success, everything is possible.

The Curiosity rover needed to be perfectly balanced when it was hurtling toward the Red Planet in 2012. When it approached the Martian atmosphere, the craft ejected two 70-kilogram) weights. This disrupted the spacecraft's balance, which helped it slow down as it slipped into the alien atmosphere. Just before it landed, the spacecraft released six other 25-kilogram weights to rebalance the craft so that it could land safely.

This meticulous balancing act is complicated, but here is where engineers come it..a NASA is challenging the public to design balancing weights that are up to 150 kilograms. NASA scientists want the weights to double as scientific instruments for the Red Planet.

There is $20,000 ...Registration just started and you have up to November this year to submit your idea..

For details see:

http://www.nasa.gov/solve/marsbalancechallenge/

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 25 Sep 2014 06:41

People don't forget AmberG, Vsunder ji, ramana garu and seval others who have good fundas - viva, srikumar, lokeshc - are IITians. But then so is AAP chief

par for the course.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Sep 2014 06:44

Raja BoseJi, man, ouch that hurts. When I look back at my own very mediocre career in US, I recall that I was offered positions at DRDO, CAIR, and IITD after my Ph.D. Maybe I should have taken them up, probably would have been much more satisfying that doing the equivalent of what you say, cutting edge Javascript

. But that said, I wouldn't pile it on IIT dudes. unlike me, most of them are brilliant

, but not sure India really benefited from them. Topic for another thread.

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 25 Sep 2014 06:51

vina wrote:
Why CNN-IBN is showing MMS. We don't want to see him , hear him with coal tarred face. What a disgrace that pathetic chap is.
Well, that "pathetic chap" was the one who wanted the mission, okayed the plans, financed it and saw it launched. NYT is right. Modi has absolutely nothing to do with this other than the speech he gave today. That is fine . He is after all the elected PM of the day.

But let us not miss the wood for the trees and acknowledge the contributions made and who created this mission in the first place. Modi could have been more gracious and acknowledged MMS in is speech,when he spoke about Vajpayee and Chandrayaan.

Thanks Vina for bringing out what many silent watchers had in their hearts.
Achhe din in this mission is due to jaldi sanction of paisa at that time.

We can't forget that Mars mission was executed in such a short time .. not possible without a faith in your space team that they will execute it. No chances for rethinking .. window is so short .. else 2016.

It is not MMS but could have been anybody who gave a green signal in such a short time. He needs to be appreciated .. not with that 'Pathetic Chap' name. Can you do anything without budget sanction?

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 25 Sep 2014 06:53

Not to hijack this thread or to troll: I have worked with many many IITians and I find them no different than any other individual with a functional intelligence. I have seen really dumb "top rankers" and really smart "pot smoker IITians". Infact I have two who report to me at this time and I dont see them any more or any less productive than the others.

What that tells me is that there are thousands of people who did not make it to IITs who are equally smart and capable. And thank God they decide to join places like ISRO. Its also a story of how scarce good quality education is in India, that getting into IITs becomes an outcome of a random variable with high standard deviation rather than a random variable with low std dev (which is how it should be). But that is a diff. topic for some other thread.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 25 Sep 2014 06:56

Raja Bose wrote:
svinayak wrote:Jugaad engineering: How India created the world's cheapest Mars mission
I hate this term "Jugaad Engineering". This gives the vibe that it was some shoddily cobbled together mission, cutting corners slumdog style. The goras and their gunga-din chaprasis like that aerospace scientist from Washington DC have been harping on this very thing. Cobbled together, my mush. MOM was no jugaad, it was rigorous, efficient, top notch science and engineering which made it successful. Not some spit & twine jugaad.

It's typical gora khujli man. You know how it all works. Pakis do it too.

Raja Bose wrote:Where are all those high funda IITians who were supposed to be the cream of our crop? Probably off writing "cutting edge" JavaScript for FaceBook.

csaurabh · Post by **csaurabh** » 25 Sep 2014 06:59

Raja Bose wrote: Where are all those high funda IITians who were supposed to be the cream of our crop? Probably off writing "cutting edge" JavaScript for FaceBook.

That is uncalled for. There are multiple reasons why IITians don't join ISRO and why ISRO doesn't recruit IITians. I know this because I have seen this closely and from both sides of the story. But as others said, this is not the time and place. Btw, the 'old' generation of ISRO/DRDL/etc. ( the leaders now ) have a substantial no. of iitians, new generation is different .

member_28108 · Post by **member_28108** » 25 Sep 2014 07:08

Times are changing for eg in this batch (2014) of IIST at least 5 students gave up their IIT seats (in "good" subjects of their choice) after paying the joining fees (and losing it too due to ridiculous time lines of JEE advanced ))to join IIST with a passion to train and work for ISRO. Missions like Chandrayaan, MOM and Agni/K missiles etc have fired up the imagination of some youth to study in these areas. It was indeed considerable foresight that ISRO started IIST when they started noting a talent crunch and decided to nurture it themselves.From 2017 batch they may allow DRDO and other labs also to hire from IIST but for the present they plan to hire all those who have a CGPA >7.5 in their course.

sooraj · Post by **sooraj** » 25 Sep 2014 07:15

India reaches the Red Planet! So why is Britain giving £1BILLION in aid to a nation that can afford a mission to Mars?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ssion.html

Sonugn · Post by **Sonugn** » 25 Sep 2014 07:17

dailyfail at it again

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Sep 2014 07:23

sooraj wrote:India reaches the Red Planet! So why is Britain giving £1BILLION in aid to a nation that can afford a mission to Mars?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... ssion.html

Somebody even claimed Mangalyaan was funded with Br1sh1t tax dollars.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Sep 2014 07:25

CRamS wrote:unlike me, most of them are brilliant , but not sure India really benefited from them. Topic for another thread.

crams ji, you should start that thread indeed.. and please don't forget to discuss our famous AK49er. /OT

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 25 Sep 2014 07:26

csaurabh wrote: Btw, the 'old' generation of ISRO/DRDL/etc. ( the leaders now ) have a substantial no. of iitians, new generation is different .

Boss, you would be remiss if you don't add "a substantial number of non-IITians as well" or even the other way round "a substantial number if non-IITians and a substantial number of IITians too". Well that is it for me as several birds of prey are circling overhead

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 25 Sep 2014 07:32

csaurabh wrote:There are multiple reasons why IITians don't join ISRO and why ISRO doesn't recruit IITians. I know this because I have seen this closely and from both sides of the story.

Why is that? Post your reply in Nukkad if you wish to.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 25 Sep 2014 07:33

DailyFail brishit comments are fun to read. Indians are replying to it with the very things I would have said. It seems the illusion of a Brishits as a civilizing force is fast evaporating.

Good for India!

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Sep 2014 07:36

some cool pics here [not our mom's

]
http://news.discovery.com/space/indias- ... 140924.htm

how could this have possibly happened?

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 25 Sep 2014 07:51

^^^

Caption below says

This may look like a shooting star cartoon, but it's actually an old impact crater plus ridge of dunes in Athabasca Valles. The "tail" of material is likely caused by prevailing winds shaping the landscape (PSP_002661_1895). Elevation range: -2,611 meters (purple/blue - lowest) to -2,441 meters (red/white - highest) below mean Mars surface elevation. Source: http://www.uahirise.org/dtm/dtm.php?ID=PSP_002661_1895

The High Resolution Imaging Science Experiment (HiRISE) camera is the most powerful imager in orbit around Mars. Capable of resolving objects less than a meter wide on the surface of the Red Planet while attached to NASA's Mars Reconnaissance Orbiter (MRO), HiRISE has brought us unparallelled views of Martian landscape, geology, active erosion processes and even our own surface missions. After nearly 8 years of orbiting Mars, HiRISE has amassed a huge archive of observations and, in many cases, observations can be combined to provide a unique insight to the planet's topography -- an observation that can be difficult to make with a single top-down snapshot. Therefore, the HiRISE team use "stereo pairs" of observations from different orbital passes (and therefore different viewing angles) of the same locations on the Martian surface. This can produce topographical maps of surface features accurate to within 10s of centimeters in height. These high resolution digital terrain models, or DTMs, provide an incredible scientific insight as well as constructing an aesthetically pleasing perspective of an otherwise "flat" vista. In all images a color spectrum of purple-white is used, where the purple/blue hues are the lowest lying land and the red/white hues are the highest. Here are some of our favorite DTM images. Shown here are the stunning "moving dunes" of Nili Patera (catalog number: ESP_017762_1890) Elevation range: 55 meters (purple/blue - lowest) to 275 meters (red/white - highest) above mean Mars surface elevation. Source: http://www.uahirise.org/dtm/dtm.php?ID=ESP_017762_1890

DTMs can be very useful when trying to understand the morphology of craters on the Martian surface. This is Raga Crater, featuring very steep crater slopes in its interior (ESP_014011_1315). Elevation range: 1,311 meters (purple/blue - lowest) to 1,966 meters (red/white - highest) above mean Mars surface elevation. Source: http://www.uahirise.org/dtm/dtm.php?ID=PSP_006899_1330

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 25 Sep 2014 07:56

To hell with the Limey's, pakis or others who are burning up like a dead gov of pakjab. Why no pictures yet????

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 25 Sep 2014 08:03

Someone needs to remind the bruteshit what our then FM and now president called the bruteshit aid i.e "peanuts".

There mere suggestion that such "peanuts" were not needed had the entire bruteshit establishment on their knees begging for it to be continued un-hindered.

member_22733 · Post by **member_22733** » 25 Sep 2014 08:09

pankajs, yes, the brishits are being dealt with nicely on DailyFail and Racist-reddit. So many feisty Indians giving it back nicely. I am so loving it.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 25 Sep 2014 08:34

LokeshC wrote:DailyFail brishit comments are fun to read. Indians are replying to it with the very things I would have said. It seems the illusion of a Brishits as a civilizing force is fast evaporating.

Good for India!

Please provide the title of the article, I will google and end up there. Love to read the comments, especially the desis giving it back.