Bharat Rakshak

I agree with Ravi, this hindi program from NDTV is probably the best i've seen so far on the Army's SF training. Amazing!

^^^^ While the footage is good, i must say the reporting was a bit too cheesy. Plus, the reporter was trying to follow a set script of questions irrespective of the response he was getting from the other guy. Eg. he asks why M4 is better and before the dude can answer he abruptly moves to knee pads !!!. Why ask the question if you do not want the viewers to hear the answer.

Pic: http://www.navy.mil/management/photodb/ ... 81-000.jpg

INS Satpura lowers a rigid inflatable boat into the sea. Typical of how MARCOS would do during anti piracy operations - if Satpura were to go for one

Somedays back Singhaji laid down a similar scenario to what is happening in Kabul , in this very thread.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/worl ... 674886.cms

Let us see how Coalition and Afghan forces deal with this.By the way such coordinated attacks are very difficult to execute without active mentoring/guidance/participation by Intelligence agencies/Special forces.

In military terminology such kind of coordinated attacks will get classified as swarming.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarming_%28military%29

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swarming_% ... _terrorism

Interesting theory in the comments section of the article.According to that person this was the work of the Pakistani Government to stop NATO forces from leaving so they can receive more aid.

IAF flies commando plane fleet


it seems that the message sent out is

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2012/20120620/nation.htm

^^^^ Pics

http://www.militaryphotos.net/forums/sh ... ost6229047

The CO of 44th squadron mentioned in the article, who was not supposed to be allowed to fly the 1st IL-76 into Hulule was none other than Gp Capt Bewoor (son of GG Bewoor, COAS) who has been a regular contributor of articles to Vayu and BR. The operation from his perspective is described here: http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/History/1988Cactus/Cactus01.html. In fact there is a pic of him and AK Goel (the blog's author) in it.

While working in an oil marketing PSU I regularly met an ex SFF soldier. He was let us say, not originally from India, retired because of a leg injury and walked with a limp. He was about 40 or so and the only way to describe him is by calling him a "Gentle Giant".

I assure you, even with the injury and his age, he could if required, take on any 10 people working there simultaneously with his bare hands. And his hands, well I have no words to describe them.

Just to put it in perspective I have had a number of relatives in the Army at various times. But that man, he was a tank, a hulk and a rambo all-in-one.

Rajiv

Were his hands having a weather beaten leathery feel\look.

At the Mumbai minitry bdg fire

Yes and it looked as if he could drive a nail into wood with his bare hand.

I recall someone posted the brief service history of Col brito on brf once...

http://www.linkedin.com/in/bhushan1829 - peeps posting about their paracdo/SG stints on linkedin. what has this world come to

Climbing hands!! IIRC, even the mountaineering geeks of Outside magazine, who wrote that fine Siachen article mentions their impressions of Colonel Kumar's physique at his age.



That bold part is the mark of a true warrior soul. Compare that to the SSG psychotic looking types that pakis (and even some injun jingos secretly) drool over. 24X7 useless aggression, that is gradually self-destructive.

Really glad he is around us.

Wah wah Nairgolis

Col Bhushan Kaluvakolan has clarified what the SG is:

is this unit under NSG or operates under Army HQ?
why would a army SF unit practice for CT ops in NDLS when NSG is sitting on the job is a bit unknown...maybe the army keeps a QRT around to defend its own vast facilities in the capital like the delhi cantt.

Please to ask Surya for further details

before the days delta force / ST6 branching into CT role also, the US army did keep a "hasty response team" in areas with high attack potential from soviet agents like germany. read this in a old book on US special forces.

now I think FBI HRT and the local SWATs are tasked for CT role. only a really dire situation of a mass "swarming" attack on the mainland US might bring out the military A-teams.

^^^Singha, Special Group is the oldest true "Special Force" of the Indian Army. The story as I know is something like this: The Parachute Commando Battalions were considered as oriented more towards limited cross border actions and some sort of elite infantry - tasked for operations which were beyond the normal infantry. Sometime in early 80s I suppose, a decision was taken to evolve a true blue SF with in the army and CT/CI and HR were among the objectives. Men were drawn from Establishment 22/Vikas/SFF and formed into a dedicated unit. In due course of time, this unit emerged as THE MOST PRIME CT/CI unit of the army - bettering the Para(Commando) battalions. Now, as one of the mandates was CT/HR like GSG9/GIGN, this unit formed the initial blue-print and nucleus of dedicated QRT for pan India deployment. IMO, it was to be more like SAS - both external and internal mandate. But in due course of time, SG mandate & blueprint for CT/QRT formed into NSG - driven in some measure by Op.Bluestar and need to keep IA out of domestic deployments in public view.

During the same time, 1 Para (Commando) - as it was then called - became Army HQ reserve and some sort of "super SF" with in the 3 Commando battalions at the time. Quite symptomatic of mess in our SF structure.

SG is "THE THINK TANK" of the SF philosophy in the IA - TACDE of Special Forces, if you will. Of course, it is an "active" unit with involvement across the board (as written in the CV of the good Colonel). 9 out of 10 people even in IA would not know about it - and those who know, generally keep a healthy distance from it. Given its heritage (from E22), it is very thick with the "agencies".

One of the reasons the Commando tag as dropped in favor of Special Forces for Para (Commando) battalions was that the word commando is supposed to mean limited slam-bang actions - SF means more evolved in terms of breadth and depth capabilities.

PS: Waiting for suryallah to come charging at me.....

In one of the earlier posts in this forum, a comment by one of the founding members of NSG was found under a newspaper article on the web. He clearly mentioned that the two NSG Special Action Group were formed by taking the nucleus of SG battalion.

However, the timeline is not gelling from Colonel's profile. His story is from the 1990s. It means that the SG still had a CT/HRT role post NSG formation.

Another question mark comes from Lt Gen Brar (Bluestar)'s interview. Where he explained that the SFF was not up to task as a CT unit. And more for 'conventional' parachute operations. Is SG existed at that time, why wasn't SG pulled in for the ops?



Perhaps linked to the fact that SFF has a HQ in Delhi.

Mums the word

except for one thing

Singha

as rohit mentions its the historical process so don't think of them now or 5 years ago.

Go back to Asiad times

Also think of some of the main characters who are the fathers of our CT story and look at where they come from

Lastly gives you a idea of how forward thinking the military guys who started this were before police heads were put in charge.


PS: I have never met this gentleman. but he reported to my friend in the SF at one stage. And one of school langoti dosts in the IAF ran into this guy at some conference and came back with a terrific impression of him. Word got back to my SF friend of this IAF guy asking lots of questions because it was a rare event .

and then he finds out from me that he is my pal.

It was an interesting reunion.

aditya

morale of story

the purpose of leaving you\us confused has been achieved

let it go

PS: things are changing so rapidly that even my friends info is getting outdated. so forget about decade

Well, as Surya said, don't get into time lines to seriously as all this is based on morsels of information in public domain. As for SG still having CT/HRT role - well, as I said - it is an active unit operational across the length and breadth of the country and then some more. You remember the website dedicated to the memory of Major Uday Singh? He was with SG was he martyred in CI Ops in J&K. And don't forget that it is the one which devises lots of philosophy of Spec Ops for IA - which could well involve the drills as mentioned in the CV for the good Colonel.

As for the Bluestar and SFF - The charge on Bluestar was led by 1 Para Cdo (AHQ 'reserve' SF Unit) and SFF. SFF was chosen because of their non-Indian affiliation. And they are terrific mountain warfare specialists. As to why was SG not used? No idea. God knows in what shape it was then. But while SFF is the parent organization of SG, that is where the linkage ends. The men are drawn from the entire IA - and unlike the Para(SF), the manpower base of SG is more diverse. Officers and men from Signal, EME, ASC, Infantry are part of SG. Officers from Para(SF) are deputed to SG - where they have to again clear the probation of SG.

PS: Any guess who was the SF Officer who led the SF charge? (Surya, you're not to answer this)

eerrr...Gen VKS?

Don't kill me if I'm wrong.

Lt Gen retd Prakash Chand Katoch
Team leader, 1 PARA SF

PC Katoch got badly injured in the first assault by Para Cdos on Akal Takht (iirc it was right after the Guards went in led by JS Raina as scout?) and then they tried to assassinate him when he was hospitalized.

^^^Nelson, sahi jawaab....

Say, if someone is recruited in a non-commissioned rank like a rifleman, how long does it take for him before he can apply for a commando training course like the one in Belgaum ?

The Junior Leaders course at Belgaum is for officers and JCOs onlee afaik.

Commando course is different from Junior Leaders course. The former is conducted in Junior Leaders Wing, Belgaum for Officers, JCOs and NCOs; the wing is a part of Infantry School. It is a mandatory course for officers in Infantry and Mechanised Infantry. JCOs and NCOs undergo Commando course after nomination from various units and the service at which they do the course may vary, with a strict upper age limit.

The Junior Leaders course is for JCOs and NCOs, conducted in Junior Leaders Academy, Bareilly and Ramgarh. NCOs Academy Binaguri caters for JLC of NCOs.

http://mod.nic.in/rec&training/welcome.html

I was referring to the commando course by Junior leader's wing in Belgaum (sometimes its simply called Commando Wing), not the generic course for all JCOs/NCOs conducted elsewhere. It is referred to as Junior leader's commando training camp by some folks though I am not aware of the official name for it (if there is any).

OK. Let me put this debate on SG to rest completely. Below is excerpt from Lt. General R.K.Nanavatty from the book "Special forces: doctrine, structures, and employment across spectrum of conflict in the Indian context" by Lt. General Vijay Oberoi.

I quote:" Actually we have two SF in our environment today. They are the Special Group and SFF, notwithstanding what one of the panelist said about NSG. I will speak of them briefly. The Special Group has the political sanction and authorization for special operations. (me:he defines spec ops as strategic operations with clear political mandate which can be undertaken during peace time and in situations short of war. He considers Para(SF) as having high theater level expertise). It has the support of national intelligence services, the RAW and the Intelligence Bureau (IB). It also has support of ARC, which is denied to Para(SF). So, in theory and in concept, we have a force, which is capable of strategic special operations.....<SNIP>."

PS: Now, Suryaullah can't admonish me...all open source onleeeeee

arrgh....rohitvats-saar Now people are going to ask your for "links"....photoms of "western looking soldiers" for fanbois to exchange during meetups... A thirst for more and more info on stuff we never wanted to know, to quote Rumsfeld-mama "unknown unknowns".