Bharat Rakshak

Consortium of Indian Defence Websites
It is currently 04 Sep 2015 10:22

All times are UTC + 5:30 hours




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ] 
Author Message
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2015 14:11 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
I just finished reading the book 'FOXTROT TO ARIHANT’ by Mr. Joseph Chacko.

There have been quite a few books about the Indian Navy. However this book is perhaps the first of its kind as it talks exclusively about the submarines in Indian Navy. The book covers the details of IN’s submarine forces in past (‘Foxtrot’) present (‘Kilo’ and ‘Type 1500’) and future Scorpene, Arihant and her sisters. Very informative.

Fortunately this is not a coffee table book with some fancy pictures and a fancier price tag. Quite economically priced at ~ Rs 700, it should be affordable by all the defence enthusiast.

This book reiterates that in the 1960s and 1970s, how the Western countries refused to give us their “advanced” arms and it was the USSR that helped us with their latest equipment. It was only when UK refused to give IN the ‘Oberon’ class submarines that USSR offered the ‘Foxtrot’. (A similar situation occurred when UK refused to give IAF the Lightning fighters and USSR offered the MiG 21.) The Western powers said that the systems desired by us are “too sophisticated to be handled by India”. Today UK offers the Typhoon saying that it is the MOST sophisticated aircraft for the IAF’s MMRCA requirements !

This books gives a good account of our submarines in 1971 war. As they were not in the limelight a lot of people (including yours truly) had always wondered what IN submarines actually did in the 1971 war. In fact the book gives a good account of IN’s submarine forces from 1970s till date

Some of the anecdotes, like a navy personnel having undergoing a appendectomy, 100 feet below the sea, are more than enough to give goose pimples.

One issue I have never been able to understand is the “size” of INS Arihant. The book says that INS Arihant is 11 m broad, 15 m tall and111 mm long. Consider the submarine to be a “perfect“ cylinder “Assuming” the submarine to be a cylinder of 12 m (average) diameter and 80 m (average) long, the volume i.e. the displacement of INS Arihant will be 8,500 MT, not 6,500 MT as mentioned in the book and several other sources.

A constructive suggestion to the author and publisher, the printing is good but the binding should be improved.

My suggestion : this book is a MUST read for all IN fanboys.

Kersi K Dotiwalla


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2015 14:50 
Offline
BR Mainsite Crew

Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58
Posts: 8573
Chacko Joseph has repeatedly tried to run down Indian national interests by deliberately obfuscating facts regarding the Coast Guard terror boat incident, and now the Myanmar one is subject to his posturing too.. all thanks to his own political inclinations based on parochial considerations which he was brazen about. Folks are welcome to use the search function on this forum about how it came out and his behavior as well.

Not you Kersi, but there are a couple of other persons with similar political proclivities whom he hangs around with (a mere few likeminded BR members) am sure they will all chime in to say how great he is etc, but his antics are beyond brazen and fairly contemptuous regarding Indian interests.

Folks are free to make up their own mind, on my part I would not subsidize any of his efforts to gain benefit.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2015 18:15 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 25772
Location: Terrorists have no religion until it's time to hang them - then we find out the religion
From Amazon
http://www.amazon.in/Foxtrot-Arihant-st ... 8193005554


Foxtrot to Arihant - The story of Indian Navy's Submarine Arm Paperback – 2015
by Joseph P. Chacko (Author), VAdm K.N. Sushil (Retd.) (Foreword), Cmde Arun Kumar (Retd) (Contributor), Cmde Ranjit Rai (Redt) (Contributor)

Quote:
The Indian navy's silent but deadly sub surface fighting arm has undergone tremendous changes since the first Foxtrot submarine was inducted into the service on 8 December 1967. The submarines have been a complex mix of diesel-electric - nuclear propulsion; Soviet - Western - Indian design; and imported - licence - indigenous build. Be it a two man swimmer delivery vehicle or deep water Kilo's and HDW's or blue water Charlie I and Akula II class SSGN's or strategic Arihant class SSBN's, the navy has operated the entire spectrum of submarine types. The grit and determination of the submariners is not just limited to fighting but also to build their own machines and fight. The submarine arm is also a bit of mystery and usually finds mentions in few pages in naval books or makes headlines during accidents. The book traces the origin and growth of the submarine arm of the Indian navy. The book has been written in consultation with Cmde Arun Kumar, AVSM, NM (Retd.) who has served 28 years in the submarine arm and has headed critical submarine upgrade and procurement plans. In his twenty eight years of submarine career, he held various staff and command appointments. He was Commodore Commanding Submarines (East) & Commanded INS Virbahu submarine base in the East which is regarded as 'Alma Mater' by the submariners of the Indian Navy; commanded the guided missile destroyer Rajput; and the Submarine Training school Satavahana. His last appointment in service was Principal Director of Submarine Acquisitions at NHQ. VAdm K.N Sushil, PVSM, AVSM, NM, ADC, Former Chief Southern Naval Command (Redt.) has written the preface. Cmde Ranjit B. Rai (Retd.) has contributed 3 chapters to the book.


I will buy this book


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2015 18:24 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 25772
Location: Terrorists have no religion until it's time to hang them - then we find out the religion
Karan M wrote:
Chacko Joseph has repeatedly tried to run down Indian national interests by deliberately obfuscating facts regarding the Coast Guard terror boat incident, and now the Myanmar one is subject to his posturing too.. all thanks to his own political inclinations based on parochial considerations which he was brazen about. Folks are welcome to use the search function on this forum about how it came out and his behavior as well.

Not you Kersi, but there are a couple of other persons with similar political proclivities whom he hangs around with (a mere few likeminded BR members) am sure they will all chime in to say how great he is etc, but his antics are beyond brazen and fairly contemptuous regarding Indian interests.

Folks are free to make up their own mind, on my part I would not subsidize any of his efforts to gain benefit.

Do you mind posting a review of the book rather than your view of the author?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2015 19:08 
Offline
BR Mainsite Crew

Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58
Posts: 8573
shiv wrote:
Karan M wrote:
Chacko Joseph has repeatedly tried to run down Indian national interests by deliberately obfuscating facts regarding the Coast Guard terror boat incident, and now the Myanmar one is subject to his posturing too.. all thanks to his own political inclinations based on parochial considerations which he was brazen about. Folks are welcome to use the search function on this forum about how it came out and his behavior as well.

Not you Kersi, but there are a couple of other persons with similar political proclivities whom he hangs around with (a mere few likeminded BR members) am sure they will all chime in to say how great he is etc, but his antics are beyond brazen and fairly contemptuous regarding Indian interests.

Folks are free to make up their own mind, on my part I would not subsidize any of his efforts to gain benefit.

Do you mind posting a review of the book rather than your view of the author?


I won't be purchasing the book because his actions directly impugned the Indian Coast Guard, Indian Navy and brought an otherwise straight forward anti-terror op into disrepute.

I can only do a review if I get it at a library, don't know when that will happen.

I have decided (again, that's only my personal take on it), that I am not going to directly subsidize those elements of the Indian media which seem to think they can run with the hares and hunt with the hounds.

Folks like Pravin Swami, Chacko Joseph who make their moolah by writing on the Indian Army, Navy etc and posturing as experts on it, and at the same time whenever something of national importance happens, they spare no effort in demeaning the institutions of concern and playing a willing catspaw for hostile interests who spread that motivated narrative far and wide.

If you want to purchase his book and do a review thats your call though & that is most definitely your prerogative.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 14 Jun 2015 19:10 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Posts: 15057
Location: General Error : Bhery Phamous General !
people can buy or not buy this book, depending on their POV. all I would request is, no further discussion on this issue.

discuss the content of the book only.
cheers.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 08:50 
Online
BR Mainsite Crew

Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31
Posts: 13239
My opinion is let Chacko have own his POV on matters he wants too , This should not shadow the good work he has done on writing a book on IN Sub arm which is again a rare thing.

I agree with what Rahul says , so lets just keep our discussion to the content of his book.

Congratulation to Chacko for taking the initative to write a book on one of the rarely discussed subject of IN, Good Luck to him.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 11:26 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
shiv wrote:
From Amazon
http://www.amazon.in/Foxtrot-Arihant-st ... 8193005554


Foxtrot to Arihant - The story of Indian Navy's Submarine Arm Paperback – 2015
by Joseph P. Chacko (Author), VAdm K.N. Sushil (Retd.) (Foreword), Cmde Arun Kumar (Retd) (Contributor), Cmde Ranjit Rai (Redt) (Contributor)

Quote:
The Indian navy's silent but deadly sub surface fighting arm has undergone tremendous changes since the first Foxtrot submarine was inducted into the service on 8 December 1967. The submarines have been a complex mix of diesel-electric - nuclear propulsion; Soviet - Western - Indian design; and imported - licence - indigenous build. Be it a two man swimmer delivery vehicle or deep water Kilo's and HDW's or blue water Charlie I and Akula II class SSGN's or strategic Arihant class SSBN's, the navy has operated the entire spectrum of submarine types. The grit and determination of the submariners is not just limited to fighting but also to build their own machines and fight. The submarine arm is also a bit of mystery and usually finds mentions in few pages in naval books or makes headlines during accidents. The book traces the origin and growth of the submarine arm of the Indian navy. The book has been written in consultation with Cmde Arun Kumar, AVSM, NM (Retd.) who has served 28 years in the submarine arm and has headed critical submarine upgrade and procurement plans. In his twenty eight years of submarine career, he held various staff and command appointments. He was Commodore Commanding Submarines (East) & Commanded INS Virbahu submarine base in the East which is regarded as 'Alma Mater' by the submariners of the Indian Navy; commanded the guided missile destroyer Rajput; and the Submarine Training school Satavahana. His last appointment in service was Principal Director of Submarine Acquisitions at NHQ. VAdm K.N Sushil, PVSM, AVSM, NM, ADC, Former Chief Southern Naval Command (Redt.) has written the preface. Cmde Ranjit B. Rai (Retd.) has contributed 3 chapters to the book.


I will buy this book


Buy directly from FRONTIER POST. Amazon etc is too expensive.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 11:33 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
Austin wrote:
My opinion is let Chacko have own his POV on matters he wants too , This should not shadow the good work he has done on writing a book on IN Sub arm which is again a rare thing.

I agree with what Rahul says , so lets just keep our discussion to the content of his book.

Congratulation to Chacko for taking the initative to write a book on one of the rarely discussed subject of IN, Good Luck to him.


Austin
I think we are thinking alike. Let us treat Mr Joseph's political inclinations and his book are two independent issues. To write a book on IN's submarines is a brave effort. Let us not berate this achievement. I know Mr Joseph and I have often fought tooth and nail as our views often clash. But why should that stop me (or others) from reading / buying his book ON MERITS.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 11:42 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
Karan M wrote:
Karan M wrote:
Chacko Joseph has repeatedly tried to run down Indian national interests by deliberately obfuscating facts regarding the Coast Guard terror boat incident, and now the Myanmar one is subject to his posturing too.. all thanks to his own political inclinations based on parochial considerations which he was brazen about. Folks are welcome to use the search function on this forum about how it came out and his behavior as well.

Not you Kersi, but there are a couple of other persons with similar political proclivities whom he hangs around with (a mere few likeminded BR members) am sure they will all chime in to say how great he is etc, but his antics are beyond brazen and fairly contemptuous regarding Indian interests.

Folks are free to make up their own mind, on my part I would not subsidize any of his efforts to gain benefit.
Do you mind posting a review of the book rather than your view of the author?


I won't be purchasing the book because his actions directly impugned the Indian Coast Guard, Indian Navy and brought an otherwise straight forward anti-terror op into disrepute.

I can only do a review if I get it at a library, don't know when that will happen.

I have decided (again, that's only my personal take on it), that I am not going to directly subsidize those elements of the Indian media which seem to think they can run with the hares and hunt with the hounds.

Folks like Pravin Swami, Chacko Joseph who make their moolah by writing on the Indian Army, Navy etc and posturing as experts on it, and at the same time whenever something of national importance happens, they spare no effort in demeaning the institutions of concern and playing a willing catspaw for hostile interests who spread that motivated narrative far and wide.

If you want to purchase his book and do a review thats your call though & that is most definitely your prerogative.



Mr Karan.
My views often clash with those of Mr Joseph, more so regarding the Indian Coast Guard incident.

By the way the book is very pro Indian, pro Indian Navy and pro India. I would not consider Mr Joseph even remotely as an anti Indian not withstanding his political views.

Let us treat the book on its merit and not on the political leanings of the author. This discussion may stop some of our BR members from reading / buying this book, which would not be fair to either our members or the book.
Kersi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 11:46 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
Karan M wrote:
I won't be purchasing the book because his actions directly impugned the Indian Coast Guard, Indian Navy and brought an otherwise straight forward anti-terror op into disrepute.

I can only do a review if I get it at a library, don't know when that will happen.

I have decided (again, that's only my personal take on it), that I am not going to directly subsidize those elements of the Indian media which seem to think they can run with the hares and hunt with the hounds.

Folks like Pravin Swami, Chacko Joseph who make their moolah by writing on the Indian Army, Navy etc and posturing as experts on it, and at the same time whenever something of national importance happens, they spare no effort in demeaning the institutions of concern and playing a willing catspaw for hostile interests who spread that motivated narrative far and wide.

If you want to purchase his book and do a review thats your call though & that is most definitely your prerogative.


Mr Karan. If you are in Mumbai I can lend you my copy to read. - Kersi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 11:57 
Offline
BR Mainsite Crew

Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58
Posts: 8573
Kersi D wrote:
Mr Karan.
My views often clash with those of Mr Joseph, more so regarding the Indian Coast Guard incident.


Its not a question of merely views clashing but the manner in which an impression was sought to be created that the entire anti terror op was a failure, that the GOI's locus standi was unclear etc etc. The discussions on this forum were testament to that.

Quote:
By the way the book is very pro Indian, pro Indian Navy and pro India. I would not consider Mr Joseph even remotely as an anti Indian not withstanding his political views.

Let us treat the book on its merit and not on the political leanings of the author. This discussion may stop some of our BR members from reading / buying this book, which would not be fair to either our members or the book.
Kersi


Like I said, you (and others) are welcome to the book. I can only speak for myself and have decided a fair time back, that there is no point in subsidizing such efforts. Its a personal choice, same as not purchasing magazines from those media houses which invite Pakistani leaders to India and then trumpet their activities. Often times, those magazines and publishing houses carry articles on India itself and those may be of interest. But I am ok with giving those up to make my own (limited) point.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 12:34 
Offline
BR Mainsite Crew

Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58
Posts: 8573
Kersi D wrote:
Karan M wrote:
I won't be purchasing the book because his actions directly impugned the Indian Coast Guard, Indian Navy and brought an otherwise straight forward anti-terror op into disrepute.

I can only do a review if I get it at a library, don't know when that will happen.

I have decided (again, that's only my personal take on it), that I am not going to directly subsidize those elements of the Indian media which seem to think they can run with the hares and hunt with the hounds.

Folks like Pravin Swami, Chacko Joseph who make their moolah by writing on the Indian Army, Navy etc and posturing as experts on it, and at the same time whenever something of national importance happens, they spare no effort in demeaning the institutions of concern and playing a willing catspaw for hostile interests who spread that motivated narrative far and wide.

If you want to purchase his book and do a review thats your call though & that is most definitely your prerogative.


Mr Karan. If you are in Mumbai I can lend you my copy to read. - Kersi


Thanks for the gracious offer Kersi.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 14:06 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 25772
Location: Terrorists have no religion until it's time to hang them - then we find out the religion
Kersi D wrote:

Buy directly from FRONTIER POST. Amazon etc is too expensive.

Kersi - the price is exactly the same on Amazon India


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 15:57 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03
Posts: 4998
Kersi D wrote:
I rest my case.


I am in Mumbai sir. Is your offer open for me also? :D You Mumbai people never even call me for your meetings which I understand are quire regular.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 18:59 
Offline
Forum Moderator

Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Posts: 15057
Location: General Error : Bhery Phamous General !
thread cleaned up.

those who dont want to read it, your point has been made. those who want to counter that view, your argument has been made as well.

henceforth, kindly discuss only the content of the book and related issues. don't force me to do another clean-up and there would be consequences.
- Rahul.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 21:26 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
Rahul M wrote:
thread cleaned up.

those who dont want to read it, your point has been made. those who want to counter that view, your argument has been made as well.

henceforth, kindly discuss only the content of the book and related issues. don't force me to do another clean-up and there would be consequences.
- Rahul.


P E R F E C T


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 21:28 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
Yagnasri wrote:
Kersi D wrote:
I rest my case.


I am in Mumbai sir. Is your offer open for me also? :D You Mumbai people never even call me for your meetings which I understand are quire regular.


NO SIRS PLEASE :evil: :evil: :evil:

I am on k e r s i k d o t i w a l l a at r e d i f f m a i l d o t c o m.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 21:29 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
shiv wrote:
Kersi D wrote:

Buy directly from FRONTIER POST. Amazon etc is too expensive.

Kersi - the price is exactly the same on Amazon India


I must have made a mistake :oops: :oops: :oops:


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 15 Jun 2015 21:32 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
Another review

http://indiadefenceforum.com/foxtrot-to ... d-actions/

Kersi


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 21 Jun 2015 22:29 
Offline
Webmaster BR

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 2986
Location: Earth @ Google.com
Good Review Kersi. Nice to know the submarine arm has got the attention it should.

Now about buying a book or not , if it is a subject matter that is after your own interest, then one will end up buying that book regardless. I have bought books just because it had literally one page of information that I liked.

Whose loss is it if a book is not bought? Certainly not the authors. There is really no money to be made in writing defence books of this sort. Yep you can make money if you bring out glossy pictorials /coffee table books with drawings and little effort in research etc (Those are entirely based on the photographer's efforts).. but there is no money in human interest history books. When you buy a book for Rs600, there is not even enough left over for a happy meal after you deduct all the expenses.. So stop worrying about subsidizing an author's lifestyle.. . I sank more money in my books than I made out of them. Pretty sure its the same with any of the authors dabbling in history today. Even Chacko.

Kersi, its Frontier India, not Frontier Post..


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2015 02:24 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
Jagan wrote:
Kersi, its Frontier India, not Frontier Post..


SORRY :(( :(( :((


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2015 05:49 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Posts: 25772
Location: Terrorists have no religion until it's time to hang them - then we find out the religion
Kersi if you are on Facebook could you email me?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2015 16:26 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03
Posts: 4998
Kersi D wrote:
NO SIRS PLEASE :evil: :evil: :evil:

I am on k e r s i k d o t i w a l l a at r e d i f f m a i l d o t c o m.


I sent a mail but it got bounced. Is there I before wala?


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2015 21:08 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
Yagnasri wrote:
Kersi D wrote:
NO SIRS PLEASE :evil: :evil: :evil:

I am on k e r s i k d o t i w a l l a at r e d i f f m a i l d o t c o m.


I sent a mail but it got bounced. Is there I before wala?



READ

k e r s i d o t i w a l l a at r e d i f f m a i l dot c o m .

or on 7 8 0 8 4 1 0 2 8 9

seven eight zero eight four one zero two eight nine


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2015 21:09 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 20 Sep 2000 11:31
Posts: 1314
Mr Yagnasri
Read the nos backwards


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 22 Jun 2015 21:22 
Offline
BRF Oldie

Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03
Posts: 4998
sent s m s. my number ends with 2 5.


Top
 Profile  
 
PostPosted: 27 Jul 2015 07:41 
Offline
BRFite

Joined: 21 Oct 2007 17:38
Posts: 599
Location: Somewhere over the Rainbow
Getting my autographed copy soon :-D , so yippee!! forumers in Yankeeland note... i got a pretty good deal via paypal compared to Amazon, so you could look at getting it from there (ie, directly mailing Chacko Joseph - frontierindia at googool mail dat com).

http://frontierindia.com/product/foxtrots-of-the-indian-navy/ - going to buy this one next, when my pockets get replenished! Looks like my reading list for next month is set.


Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 28 posts ] 

All times are UTC + 5:30 hours


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: Austin, g.sarkar, Google Feedfetcher, Shaun and 36 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group