Radar - Specs & Discussions

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 02 Dec 2011 22:03

India to deploy radars worth Rs 40,000 crore in 10 years

“Past five years and the next five years…it’s a sort of golden age for the radars in the country”, he said at the eighth International Radar Symposium India-2011 (IRSI-11), inaugurated by VK Saraswat, Scientific Adviser to Defence Minster and director general of Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) in Bangalore.

Grand Mullahs hopefully made it to the symposium

koti · Post by **koti** » 06 Dec 2011 17:00

Do we have any thing similar to this?

Does Samyukta fall under the same category?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 06 Dec 2011 23:35

I don't think so, samyukta operates in L band.

arun · Post by **arun** » 09 Feb 2012 07:14

T.S. Subramanian in Frontline on the Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) division of DRDO.

Aslesha , Airborne Maritime Patrol Radar, Bharani, BFSR-SR, CSR, Rohini, Rajendra, Revathi, Swathi etc.:

Radar Power

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Feb 2012 10:08

also read the "an ambitious project"!

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 09 Feb 2012 12:40

arun wrote:T.S. Subramanian in Frontline on the Electronics and Radar Development Establishment (LRDE) division of DRDO.

Good article.

airborne maritime patrol radar, which has been integrated into India'a Advanced Light Helicopter

Is this the SV2000 or XV2004 series of AESA radars?

Would have liked some update on the 3D FCR for Tejas.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Feb 2012 10:34

http://www.bharatrakshak.com/NEWS/newsr ... wsid=17245

still no details yet on the SAR.. it could be AESA!

Kailash · Post by **Kailash** » 23 Feb 2012 12:37

Sligtly dated article on Next Generation Jammer (NGJ) from Raytheon.

An GaN based AESA radar with 3 times the power and one third the thickness. Can be used to blind, fry enemy electronics apart from usual tracking. There is also conformal arrays being developed to cover the skin. So miniaturized, they are planning to put similar tech on cruise missiles.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 21 May 2012 15:37

A good collection of information on how stealth technology can be defeated - http://www.electronicaviation.com/artic ... itary/1230

It seems longer wavelengths are better - the bands used for mobile telephony are apparently ideal.

Maybe what is needed is a network of low frequency AESA radars. You have to create a synthetic picture from multiple radars.

Perhaps radar receivers should be kept separate from transmitters to minimize damage from ARMs.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 May 2012 16:28

all of these solns need high investment, distributed network and new units. some are not amenable to airborne use.

what is needed is a conventional fighter and awacs radar that can switch between typical S, L, X band and interleave with the long waves needed for anti-stealth, maybe even do both in parallel. such technology does not seem to be invented yet.

kit · Post by **kit** » 22 May 2012 23:57

AN/SPY-3 is the first US shipboard Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) system. It operates in both the X-band and S-band of radar frequencies

While it can perform most functions in either frequency band, for functions such as horizon search and precision track the band can be selected for current atmospheric, target characteristics, and other factors such as anomalous and multipath propagation. It has a single 6-faced antenna that can share the bands when, for example, the electronics in one band are controlling a maximum number of missiles.

source : wikipedia

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 23 May 2012 01:27

If we can deflect all bandwidths with certain type of metal foil, (say copper for argument).. we can shape them internally to deflect away from the bandwidth source.

But, we have to let all wavelength permiate the skins like kevlar on the radome. where we can't provide kevlar composite skins, we could use RAM coatings.

This is what I would fund if I get some money.

jaladipc · Post by **jaladipc** » 23 May 2012 02:23

Pranav wrote:A good collection of information on how stealth technology can be defeated - http://www.electronicaviation.com/artic ... itary/1230

It seems longer wavelengths are better - the bands used for mobile telephony are apparently ideal.

Maybe what is needed is a network of low frequency AESA radars. You have to create a synthetic picture from multiple radars.

Perhaps radar receivers should be kept separate from transmitters to minimize damage from ARMs.

The concept you are talking is called MIMO(multi-in and Multi-Out) Both transmitters and receivers spread across a whole geographical terrain. Russia is known to be a pioneer in this area.

The best thing is for a perfect surveillance of air is installing low power radar systems like ASLESHA radars on top of all cell phone towers every 100km apart.Since each ASLESHA radar has a range of 50km for a 2sqm RCS target. Even if it overlaps its a rather advantageous thing.

We might need couple of thousands and mass producing them will bring the production costs drastically down considering say some 2000 in number.

And every Zone can be networked to next major zone like a hierarchy proving every single inch coverage of the territory.

Since these are being installed on Mobile towers(provided zero-interference with mobile signals) MOD can pay the cost of power to the tower operators.

D Roy · Post by **D Roy** » 23 May 2012 02:31

There was a British group that had made claims on similar lines.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 23 May 2012 03:34

D Roy wrote:There was a British group that had made claims on similar lines.

Yes, this was discussed with Arun_S while he was still a BR Member (and a valued one, IMO).

In all cases one needs additional hardware in addition to Cellular network to realize it.

I don't buy some British claims that Cellular mobile phone network + Software = City-wide radar. I also don't think Aslesha is the answer because the correct answer won't have moving parts. Aslesha works on a rotating platform.

negi · Post by **negi** » 23 May 2012 12:38

Iirc first such development with regards to detection of a stealth object using a mobile network infra was reported from Czech republic. I think the underlying principle is same as that of an elementary multistatic radar system , idea is to increase the chances of intercepting bounced EM signal from a stealth object by having placing your transmitter and detectors spread across the area to be monitored.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 24 May 2012 17:33

Are we working on Rajendra AESA?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Jul 2012 04:26

http://www.thehindu.com/sci-tech/energy ... 610432.ece
any idea of the specs of this radar? and what exactly is the data on the effects of the radar on horn bills?

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 08 Aug 2012 06:15

Pranav wrote:A good collection of information on how stealth technology can be defeated - http://www.electronicaviation.com/artic ... itary/1230

It seems longer wavelengths are better - the bands used for mobile telephony are apparently ideal.

Maybe what is needed is a network of low frequency AESA radars. You have to create a synthetic picture from multiple radars.

Perhaps radar receivers should be kept separate from transmitters to minimize damage from ARMs.

Further along those lines -

China, Russia Could Make U.S. Stealth Tech Obsolete

Stealth technology — which today gives U.S. jets the nearly unparalleled ability to slip past hostile radar — may soon be unable to keep American aircraft cloaked. That’s the potentially startling conclusion of a new report from Barry Watts, a former member of the Pentagon’s crystal-ball-gazing Office of Net Assessment and current analyst with the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments in Washington.

“The advantages of stealth … may be eroded by advances in sensors and surface-to-air missile systems ...” Watts cautions in his 43-page report The Maturing Revolution in Military Affairs (.pdf), published last week. ....

Stealth-killing advances include VHF and UHF radars being developed by Russia and China, and a “passive-detection” system devised by Czech researchers. The latter “uses radar, television, cellular phone and other available signals of opportunity reflected off stealthy aircraft to find and track them,” Watts explains.

These new detection systems could reverse a 30-year trend that has seen the U.S. Air Force gain an increasing advantage over enemy defenses. That phenomenon began with the introduction of the F-117 stealth fighter in the late 1980s, followed by the addition of the stealthy B-2 (pictured) in the ’90s and, more recently, the F-22.

http://www.wired.com/dangerroom/2011/06 ... nger+Room)

koti · Post by **koti** » 04 Nov 2012 02:43

What are the available options for us?
Possible Bid for Aerostats

kit · Post by **kit** » 04 Nov 2012 12:41

China has built up an extensive array of bistatic and multistatic radars along the South China sea., and US has taken a good note of it ., enough to modify their threat level to their stealth bombers and planning alternate flight patterns.

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 04 Nov 2012 14:09

kit wrote:China has built up an extensive array of bistatic and multistatic radars along the South China sea., and US has taken a good note of it ., enough to modify their threat level to their stealth bombers and planning alternate flight patterns.

So in case of war India would become a hot potato, USA need Indian airspace to attack china from Diego Garcia and around the world flight to attack from behind. this way US can effectively stretched Chinese army In land and easy the pressure in pacific or south china sea.

in long term chines need good approach to Indians to keep peace with Indian for own sake by offering some strategical gain.

If chines tries to replicate Nazi than they know there faith.

moreover India need More secure approach toward china. keep the firm defenses as well as modifying offensive where India woefully short.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Nov 2012 16:08

^they will just rain in like any mad paki would.. and the chippandas are quite capable of such threats. the reason, that we need to be well established on the aerostats, mountain tops, and other drdo umbrella protection and ecm networks.. distributed networking our forces is the key, in addition enhancing the delivery vehicles from A5++ with multi-petal walas.

I would say keep a big time destruction force ready for launch towards NW simultaneously.. we need multi-deep strike mission squadrons, and strategic setup for fine grain executions.

kit · Post by **kit** » 04 Nov 2012 19:37

EMR from high power transmitters can potentially cause genetic mutations resulting in sterility/deformed progeny. if mother birds are exposed to intense radiation over a period of time.However this would depend on the radar radiating power.OTH radars have especially been incriminated in causing neoplastic conditions in local population.The Jindalee s location is a good example of where to put a very high power radar system !!.

That said., there are ways around this problem which i am sure the military is aware.Bit more costly but workable., and in a way better.Instead of a single very high power transmitter ., one can go for an entire array in a series of islands each with lesser power but with varying transmission capabilities and the signals can be fused together in a centralized monitoring station.In addition to redudancy, this array can be made flexible enough for long range communication as well.This has a potential for growth and range extending deep into S China sea.. and monitoring an entire range of chinese naval and airforce activities.

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 04 Nov 2012 22:57

SaiK wrote:^they will just rain in like any mad paki would.. and the chippandas are quite capable of such threats. the reason, that we need to be well established on the aerostats, mountain tops, and other drdo umbrella protection and ecm networks.. distributed networking our forces is the key, in addition enhancing the delivery vehicles from A5++ with multi-petal walas.

I would say keep a big time destruction force ready for launch towards NW simultaneously.. we need multi-deep strike mission squadrons, and strategic setup for fine grain executions.

Sticking to radar network IMHO aerostats is good option till war broke-out, we need mobile system just like S300 type but more quick and able at least with 300 KM range SAM coverage.and also need dozen FALCONs and same amount desi FALCON for fill in the blank role

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 05 Nov 2012 10:10

kit wrote:EMR from high power transmitters can potentially cause genetic mutations resulting in sterility/deformed progeny. if mother birds are exposed to intense radiation over a period of time.However this would depend on the radar radiating power.OTH radars have especially been incriminated in causing neoplastic conditions in local population.The Jindalee s location is a good example of where to put a very high power radar system !!.

If you can show us the math and physics and work this out to prove your theory, I'm sure people will listen. If you can site some journals and actual papers that state neoplastic conditions caused by radar, again, I'm sure people will listen. Until then it is hyperbole at best and at worst it is bull shit.

Pranav · Post by **Pranav** » 10 May 2013 09:58

Interesting write-up on recent R&D in AESA technology - http://aviationintel.com/2011/05/27/the ... high-gear/

Here is a wishlist for a good air defense radar system:

- AESA, to enable electronic steering and reduce detection probability.
- capable of low as well as high frequencies (Stealth aircraft are more detectable at low frequencies, but resolution is better at high frequencies)
- Multistatic - meaning there should be multiple transmitters and multiple receivers, at separate locations. Receivers should be passive and separate from transmitters, so as to be immune to anti-radiation attack. Receivers and transmitters should be mobile.
- Synthetic Aperture capability: data from multiple receivers should be combined to create a higher resolution image.

It is interesting that the s-300 system already includes both low and high frequency AESA radars.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 May 2013 10:40

S-300 or S-400 does not have AESA but PESA Radar but they have AESA VHF Radar that if required can work in conjuction with them its called NEBO-M

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 May 2013 20:03

I simply love mig29's retractable refueling pod, of course OT. but interestingly directly behind the radar panels.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 May 2013 20:19

Here is a wishlist for a good air defense radar system:

we need mobile system just like S300 type but more quick and able at least with 300 KM range SAM coverage.and also need dozen FALCONs and same amount desi FALCON for fill in the blank role

Errr...........

Is there a network to support all and sundry? And the ability to fuse the very large amount of data that will be generated? Communications (vertical and horizontal)? Just asking.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 29 May 2013 12:37

Is the IAF still using P 19 radars ?

YES

I say them last week at an civil / military airport. I saw two of them fairly close to each other.

And near them was a ubiquitous SA 3 battery with the ‘Low Blow’ radar.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 04 Jun 2013 23:44

Kersi D wrote:Is the IAF still using P 19 radars ? YES

I say them last week at an civil / military airport. I saw two of them fairly close to each other.
And near them was a ubiquitous SA 3 battery with the ‘Low Blow’ radar.

I had noticed this before. Older Radar systems are replaced by newer systems but the older systems are not retired, they are moved to secondary locations or used as backup. if you review Planeman's analysis or IMINT analysis, one can discern this. Even in this civil/military airport one might see older RADARS as well as newer Systems.

vivek_ahuja · Post by **vivek_ahuja** » 05 Jun 2013 06:31

Shrinivasan wrote:
Kersi D wrote:Is the IAF still using P 19 radars ? YES

I say them last week at an civil / military airport. I saw two of them fairly close to each other.
And near them was a ubiquitous SA 3 battery with the ‘Low Blow’ radar.
I had noticed this before. Older Radar systems are replaced by newer systems but the older systems are not retired, they are moved to secondary locations or used as backup. if you review Planeman's analysis or IMINT analysis, one can discern this. Even in this civil/military airport one might see older RADARS as well as newer Systems.

Must be playing hell with the logistics of operating decades-old radars alongside latest model ones.

Not to mention the networking aspects of hooking all of them together into something that won't cause confusion. If any such networking exists, that is.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 12 Jun 2013 00:29

vivek_ahuja wrote:...Not to mention the networking aspects of hooking all of them together into something that won't cause confusion. If any such networking exists, that is.

Once the Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) is in place, all these should be seamlessly integrated with the main network. again, some of these older systems are only backup / gap fillers. Is IACCS ready, up and running, we don't know unless the RM / IAF chief confirms it.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Jun 2013 03:28

vivek_ahuja wrote:Must be playing hell with the logistics of operating decades-old radars alongside latest model ones.

Till they run out of spares I guess...

Not to mention the networking aspects of hooking all of them together into something that won't cause confusion. If any such networking exists, that is.

Only some of the older radars can be networked - eg PSM33s, Tin Sheilds etc with purpose designed networks. The oldest Indra-1s, SA-3 radars etc - not really.
The latest radars can all be networked, though since they come from different countries its a challenge, but they usually have a std format for data sharing. These are slowly but steadily replacing the older radars.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Jun 2013 06:00

Shrinivasan wrote:Once the Integrated Air Command and Control System (IACCS) is in place, all these should be seamlessly integrated with the main network. again, some of these older systems are only backup / gap fillers. Is IACCS ready, up and running, we don't know unless the RM / IAF chief confirms it.

IACCS nodes are several, spread out over west and NE/N India.

They have started going active.

IAF wants 10 nodes in 2008 for entire country, 5 approved.
http://www.tmcnet.com/usubmit/2008/12/23/3875832.htm

First five nodes expected to be up by 2011.
http://www.airforce-technology.com/news ... y-year-end

Equipment cleared for nodes for covering entire India in June 2012
http://m.indianexpress.com/news/mod-app ... es/965682/

Says two nodes in west (at least) active July 2012
http://www.terminalx.org/2012/07/indiag ... order.html

Says second phase being implemented for entire India (October 2012)
http://rosemaryinstitute.com/daily-upda ... tober-2012

Total integration of sensors mentioned under IACCS network in Iron Fist - Feb 2013. Note western sector and later two front scenario across both NE and western sector.
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/130222/n ... fire-power
Mentions IACCS nodes in western sector active
http://articles.timesofindia.indiatimes ... on-picture

Summary of news - some five nodes at least/very likely active across west and NE/north, rest under process.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 12 Jun 2013 06:07

Says Divya Drishti is up and running. Cluster integration of over 20 static and mobile stations, a major landmark. At 5:39 onwards

http://www.youtube.com/embed/KQUgFz4QWKc

DIVYA DRISHTI

Divya Drishti is a joint SI Dte – DRDO programme, with the aim of interception, monitoring, direction finding and analysis (IMDFAS) of communication signals. The system will be installed at various locations on static and mobile stations. All stations will be connected through a satellite communication network. The system caters to the mission of building aircraft flight profile (Mission Analysis).

http://drdo.gov.in/drdo/labs/DLRL/Engli ... asWork.jsp

wig · Post by **wig** » 26 Aug 2013 09:13

DRDO develops low-level radar for mountains

The country’s air defence capability is expected to get a fillip, especially in the mountainous regions with the Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) developing a new light-weight, low-level radar (LLR).

The system has been designed to detect low flying aerial threats like aircraft, helicopters and unmanned air vehicles (UAVs) against the background of intense mountain clutter. DRDO scientists have claimed that the radar has gone through extensive user trials and evaluation at electronic warfare ranges as well as in high altitude areas and the system has been recommended for induction in the services.

According to some earlier reports, there are large gaps in India’s air defence network, due to both, lack of adequate surveillance assets as well as the growing obsolescence of the existing radar network and associated anti-aircraft weapon systems. Even Parliament’s Standing Committee on Defence has adversely commented on the nation’s air defence capability.

The LLR come in the wake of another portable, three-dimensional (3-D) low-level radar developed indigenously for deployment in diverse terrains like mountains, snow-bound high altitude areas, deserts, urban high rise buildings and the plains. Serial production of this radar for the IAF has already commenced. The 3-D radar which can also be used for detecting very small UAVs, air space surveillance in urban areas for VVIPs and large critical installations, uses active aperture technology and is stated to be the first of its kind in the world.

The LLR is a quadripod mounted fully outdoor shelter-less equipment, rugged enough to operate in harsh environment, extreme temperatures extremes and in strong windy conditions. It can be segmented into several parts for transportation by men, mules or helicopter, and can be assembled in about 10 minutes.

Miniaturisation and low power technologies have been used to a great extent and the radar also has an identify friend and foe system. Hostile targets that are identified by the operator can be designated to weapon sites located in the proximity.

Thereafter, target updates are sent continuously over line or radio and presented on a hand-held target data receiver at these locations. Shoulder fired missiles can be aimed at the intruding aircraft from these weapon sites.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2013/20130826/nation.htm#15

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 26 Aug 2013 10:05

Karan M wrote:
vivek_ahuja wrote:Must be playing hell with the logistics of operating decades-old radars alongside latest model ones.

Till they run out of spares I guess...

FWIW A five year old chai wallah conversation mentioned reworking the guts of these old radars with newer tech inhouse. Moving out old parts and replacing them with bel made solid state devices.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Aug 2013 02:17

That's interesting...the THD1955 radars basically our huge long range radars were definitely upgraded in this fashion with Thales input. I wonder whether any of the others were as well. The older Russian, french and indian radars are all being replaced by a mix of the latest israeli, indian and french radars. So upgrades seem to be out..on the other hand I feel thry should upgrade and keep a bunch of the older russian radars around...they may hel against LO targets..