Radar - Specs & Discussions

andy B · Post by **andy B** » 06 Jun 2011 09:18

Singha wrote:I believe the Spyder batteries might come with some EO thing for their own use only. the SA15 Tor also allegedly has a EO engagement mode.
generally from ground level the presense of dust, cloud , hot air might make a OLS type IRST far less effective than in the cold clear air high above

Indeed the Spyder launcher has an EO/IR turret on the cabin onlee. I believe the Derby gets cued by battery radar and the P5 gets cued by the EO ball, however it may recieve target kill box co-ordinates in a LOAL launch. I suppose in theory if the radar gets knocked out it would be possible to get co-ordinates for the Derby by the EO ball and then launch the Derby in a LOAL mode and it switches its own radar to seach for ze kill....

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jun 2011 10:25

most of the current crop of AD guns also have EO sensors + radar ofcourse. eg the 35mm oerlikon skyshield system can control two cannons from a common radar+EO module and each maybe either ground based or mounted on trucks or tracked vehicles

http://img.blog.yahoo.co.kr/ybi/1/24/56 ... 749727.jpg

imo its time say farewell to ZSU-23-2/4 and get some license production of these more modern kit going to supplement the Spyder and Akash in base defence role and protection of moving columns.

increase the suicide quotient for attacking IAF bases .... these gun things should be able to target cruise missiles quite cheaply, when mounted atop berms for a good view of the countryside.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 01 Jul 2011 10:40

Any updates on the Arudra MPR? any additional inductions after Naliya?
Any Chailwala/Paanwala news about Swordfish LR Radar? We were also to get additional Aerostats? any updates on this?

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 01 Jul 2011 10:54

Singha wrote:most of the current crop of AD guns also have EO sensors + radar ofcourse. eg the 35mm oerlikon skyshield system can control two cannons from a common radar+EO module and each maybe either ground based or mounted on trucks or tracked vehicles

http://img.blog.yahoo.co.kr/ybi/1/24/56 ... 749727.jpg

imo its time say farewell to ZSU-23-2/4 and get some license production of these more modern kit going to supplement the Spyder and Akash in base defence role and protection of moving columns.

increase the suicide quotient for attacking IAF bases .... these gun things should be able to target cruise missiles quite cheaply, when mounted atop berms for a good view of the countryside.

I was thinking for High Value targets if these Gun things can enagage out Bombs, ASM and Ordinance dropped from AIrcraft say a KM from the ground, it would decrease the enemies ability to attack a target as dropping a Smart Bomb/JDAM say 30KM from target may no longer be enough.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jul 2011 11:07

+1 to that. stopping a $50k weapon with a bunch of inert bullets costing a few tens of dollars is icing on cake.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 01 Jul 2011 12:08

Singha wrote:+1 to that. stopping a $50k weapon with a bunch of inert bullets costing a few tens of dollars is icing on cake.

Oerlikon Skyshield indeed looks like an excellent option for our AD network. A couple of these located around high value targets in the western border would serve as a big deterrence factor for Porkis (not that they are going to factor in these sane thoughts). how much do they cost per piece? A not so dependable source talked about Desh buying this? I am not even aware of such a requirement being voiced by the India Army / Air Force? any info on this?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 02 Jul 2011 22:39

The replacement of L-70 in AD Regiment of IA is long overdue........may be, this Skyshield system can be a candidate for the same.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Jul 2011 23:25

I have seen Zu-23 and L-70 upgrades done by OFB with EO sensors and even integration with BEL Flycatcher radar.

I doubt they will be buy any new gun but will use upgrades of existing one.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 03 Jul 2011 07:50

Austin wrote:I have seen Zu-23 and L-70 upgrades done by OFB with EO sensors and even integration with BEL Flycatcher radar.

Skyshield would be an incremental additional to our AD capabilities. It is another layer of defence just like we have SRSAM, MRSAM, LRSAM apart from Akash which is more like a MRSAM.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Jul 2011 10:56

these new gen radar/EO guided AA guns are quite good. I doubt we are producing or buying any new ZSU or L70 units?

we can always use more AA guns..while upgrading the old to serve longer.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 Jul 2011 09:48

X Posted.

shukla wrote:Indian Navy plans to induct of new radar systems

"We are considering induction of shipborne precision approach radars to assist in recovery of fixed wing aircraft and helicopters during landing on aircraft carriers," officials said here.

They said the Navy has issued a Request for Information in this regard and has sought responses from global vendors.

Presumably the RFI put out by the Indian Navy for “Shipborne Precision Approach Radar” for Aircraft Carrier Operations is for equipping the IAC.

Excerpt from the "Official" RFI

REQUEST FOR INFORMATION

SHIPBORNE PRECISION APPROACH RADAR

INDIAN NAVY IS CONSIDERING INDUCTION OF A ‘SHIPBORNE PRECISION APPROACH RADAR’ OF STATE-OF-THE-ART TECHNOLOGY. THE RADAR IS REQUIRED TO ASSIST IN RECOVERY OF AIRCRAFT (FIXED WING AND HELICOPTERS) DURING LANDING ONBOARD THE AIRCRAFT CARRIER………………

From the “View Document” link in the “Tender Document” section on this page:

Clicky

Gaurav_S · Post by **Gaurav_S** » 02 Oct 2011 15:22

IAF to deploy new radar near border areas

After deploying Arudhra at Naliya airbase in Gujarat IAF is rolling out same radar at other front line bases in Rajasthan and Gujarat.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 02 Oct 2011 18:54

Arudhra is so sweet.. we need more along all sides of our northern borders, at every 300kms.

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 03 Oct 2011 11:10

There is lot of confusion with Elta radar and MPR. Can somebody clarify ?

Cheers
Prabhu.G

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 03 Oct 2011 11:54

Gaurav_S wrote:IAF to deploy new radar near border areas

After deploying Arudhra at Naliya airbase in Gujarat IAF is rolling out same radar at other front line bases in Rajasthan and Gujarat.

Now that is good news indeed.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 03 Oct 2011 20:15

prabhug wrote:There is lot of confusion with Elta radar and MPR. Can somebody clarify?

What confusion? Israeli hardware, some India specific and Indian developed software and modifications, similar to Green Pine -> LRTR and Thales Master T -> MRTR mechanism.

We took the hardware and tuned it against Hatf-1/2/3 series TBM, Hatf-9 rockets, Babur cruise missles and Ra'ad AGM as well as aircraft. Most threats against IAF bases will be from missiles rather than aircraft. Hence a WLR based AD radar to cue MRSAM (Barak-8 + Booster) and Spyder (though that has its own radar as well).

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 03 Oct 2011 21:23

Shrinivasan wrote:
Singha wrote:+1 to that. stopping a $50k weapon with a bunch of inert bullets costing a few tens of dollars is icing on cake.
Oerlikon Skyshield indeed looks like an excellent option for our AD network. A couple of these located around high value targets in the western border would serve as a big deterrence factor for Porkis (not that they are going to factor in these sane thoughts). how much do they cost per piece? A not so dependable source talked about Desh buying this? I am not even aware of such a requirement being voiced by the India Army / Air Force? any info on this?

I think you're underestimating the cost of AHEAD ammunition, which is a big part of what makes the Oerlikon Skyshield so effective. (Inert bullets aren't a viable option, I don't think.) I'm not saying it's not worth it, but rather that it'll be more costly than you think, and will require much more than a couple of batteries per base. Also note: The Oerlikon system uses RADAR and FLIR in tandem, and has optional missile batteries.

I think it would be GREAT for India to buy into this system and perhaps even integrate it with IGMDP missiles. I would also like to see AHEAD ammunition feature on the (hopefully upcoming) IAF Rafale, which has a canon large enough to support AHEAD-type ammunition, if the canon could be upgraded to program it (............ but I digress).

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 05 Oct 2011 00:11

Gaurav_S wrote:IAF to deploy new radar near border areas After deploying Arudhra at Naliya airbase in Gujarat IAF is rolling out same radar at other front line bases in Rajasthan and Gujarat.

The article talks about Eight Arudra MPRs already inducted by the IAF... if true it is a great step forward.

Initially, only eight of these indigenous radars have been inducted by the IAF and subsequently most of the forward and strategic air bases like Utarlai, Jodhpur, Jaisalmer, Phalodi, Suratgarh and Nal (Bikaner)in Rajasthan region likely have Arudhra to meet the operational requirements.

all facing the pigs!!!

Drishyaman · Post by **Drishyaman** » 05 Oct 2011 11:29

Shrinivasan wrote: all facing the pigs!!!

Seems, we are well prepared for the shit-eating pig.

How prepared are we for the grass-eating panda, in terms of Radar?

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 05 Oct 2011 11:40

tsarkar wrote:
prabhug wrote:There is lot of confusion with Elta radar and MPR. Can somebody clarify?
What confusion? Israeli hardware, some India specific and Indian developed software and modifications, similar to Green Pine -> LRTR and Thales Master T -> MRTR mechanism.

We took the hardware and tuned it against Hatf-1/2/3 series TBM, Hatf-9 rockets, Babur cruise missles and Ra'ad AGM as well as aircraft. Most threats against IAF bases will be from missiles rather than aircraft. Hence a WLR based AD radar to cue MRSAM (Barak-8 + Booster) and Spyder (though that has its own radar as well).

Then it is almost making the new system.Hardware is just a facilitator.

kmkraoind · Post by **kmkraoind** » 05 Oct 2011 12:52

I have a noob question. Since Arudra radar is an AESA and land based (no restraints on power), is it possible with a focused beam to fry electronics of attacking fighters and missiles?

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 07 Oct 2011 02:39

kmkraoind wrote:I have a noob question. Since Arudra radar is an AESA and land based (no restraints on power), is it possible with a focused beam to fry electronics of attacking fighters and missiles?

There was a "reported conversation" one of our oldies had with an IAF senior during an air show in one of our cities.
Our hero was being shown the working on the THD radar and the IAFwala had remarked that we keep the power low to conserve the electronics as peak power could "fry electronics", on hearing this our hero asked "why don't you dial up the power and focus it on the incoming bird"... the IAFwala gave him a look which could have fried our her's electronics and shrugged it off... My take, "It is possible and is being done, probably on when the shit hits the roof"

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 08 Oct 2011 02:26

One typo in my earlier post, its MFCR and not MRTR, as I have incorrectly typed earlier in haste.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 08 Oct 2011 02:33

Shrinivasan wrote:
kmkraoind wrote:I have a noob question. Since Arudra radar is an AESA and land based (no restraints on power), is it possible with a focused beam to fry electronics of attacking fighters and missiles?
There was a "reported conversation" one of our oldies had with an IAF senior during an air show in one of our cities.
Our hero was being shown the working on the THD radar and the IAFwala had remarked that we keep the power low to conserve the electronics as peak power could "fry electronics", on hearing this our hero asked "why don't you dial up the power and focus it on the incoming bird"... the IAFwala gave him a look which could have fried our her's electronics and shrugged it off... My take, "It is possible and is being done, probably on when the shit hits the roof"

The ability to fry at long ranges has not been achieved, but even if it is achieved, it will fry our fighter's radars as well or any fighter's in the path of the beam. Also, fighter radars operate in X Band while AD radars in S Band, so cant be used as jammers.

Military electronics are hardened against EMPs. For example, one nuclear missile exploding will not affect the hardened electronics of other missiles approaching the target.

There are many unhardened electronics, and even these would be fried as well.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 08 Oct 2011 06:46

Beam Weapons and Future of Deterrence

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 08 Oct 2011 22:11

IAF to have radar system in mountains for better security.

As part of a major security upgrade, the Indian Air Force (IAF) will put in place a comprehensive radar system in mountains and other places to plug gaps and deploy fighter aircraft at Delhi and other metro cities for quick response to any possible threat.

"I think by 2014 we would have a very comprehensive and complete radar coverage network in the country. The most difficult part are the mountainous areas and that may take about a year longer," Air Force Chief Air Chief Marshal N A K Browne said here.

He told reporters on sidelines of Air Force Day parade here, "We have certain plans, which looks after the air-defence of all the important metros, starting from Delhi. This network comprises radars, early warning systems, missiles as well as the air-borne fighters."

On securing the air-space of National Capital Region (NCR), he said, "Since Hindon is the closest base, it could actually be the right place to base the air-defence fighters."

He said the type of the aircraft to be deployed here has yet not been decided.

"Whether it would be Sukhois or M-MRCA class of aircraft, that decision is not taken but certainly these would be highly capable air-defence fighters," he said.

On the forthcoming army exercise codenamed Op Sudarshan Shakti, he said, "Participants would be the strike corps i.e. 21 Corps from the Indian Army and the South Western Air Command (SWAC) from the IAF."

jagbani · Post by **jagbani** » 09 Oct 2011 13:52

(Ghaziabad): As part of a major security upgrade, the Indian Air Force (IAF) will put in place a comprehensive radar system in mountains and other places to plug gaps and deploy fighter aircraft at Delhi and other metro cities for quick response to any possible threat.

He said that by 2014 they would have a very comprehensive and complete radar coverage network in the country.
So that a good thing ahead for the security purpose

http://punjabkesari.in/punjab/fullstory ... 52_151274-

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 Oct 2011 18:39

Singha wrote:+1 to that. stopping a $50k weapon with a bunch of inert bullets costing a few tens of dollars is icing on cake.

indeed. furthering the variants, i was thinking for within building use post 2611., where at strategic points these miniature ones could take on any terrorists hijacking up important points of security buildings, with a central cnc.

Ravi Karumanchiri · Post by **Ravi Karumanchiri** » 10 Oct 2011 02:56

^^^ I can hear it now...

"Welcome to the Taj Hotel!

Come right this way, ladies and gentleman, and I'll see you to your rooms....

Oh, don't mind the automatic canons at the elevator landings on each floor.

They're there for your protection....

.... post 26/11."

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Oct 2011 06:11

ok ot.. but think robotic versions remote controlled. but, you may want to stay focused on the radar tech that applies here.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 04 Nov 2011 18:48

Good to see Deshi company bidding and winning against international ones.

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=16442

Tata wins Indian radar-jamming contract

BANGALORE, India, Nov. 3 (UPI) -- India has awarded Tata Power Strategic Electronics Division a contract for two integrated electronic warfare systems to be deployed in mountain regions.

Tata came out the low bidder, narrowly beating Israeli firm Elta, for the contract estimated to be around $186 million, the Press Trust of India reported.

The IEWS will be used to locate, detect and jam enemy radar and electro-optical measures in mountainous borders with China and Pakistan.

India's defense department sent out the tender in 2007 to domestic and foreign companies -- Israeli firms Elisra and Elta, Thales of France, EADS of Germany and domestic suppliers Tata Power, Larsen and Toubro, Bharat Electronics, ITI and Axis Aerospace.

The contract likely will be finalized this month, the Press Trust report said.

The deal follow another major contact win for Tata Power SED in April, a $260 million contract to modernize 30 Indian air force military airports.

Tata Power SED beat Selex of Italy to win the contract, the Modernization of Airfield Infrastructure-Phase I. It was the first win by a domestic private-sector defense company against overseas bidders.

"Award of this contract won against a global defense tender is a watershed moment, not only for us but also for increasing private-sector participation in Indian defense," said Rahul Chaudhry, chief executive officer of Tata Power SED.

The SED division of Tata Power -- India's largest private sector power utility with an installed generation capacity of over 2300 MW -- has won previous defense contracts for ordnance programs and subsystems for first-tier suppliers' equipment.

In 2006, Tata Power SED and Larsen and Toubro's heavy engineering division picked up a $45 million contract to produce 40 Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launcher systems.

SED also was part of the group, including Bharat Electronics, government research organization Defense Electronics Research Laboratory and Tata's CMC information technology company that developed the Samyukta mobile integrated electronic warfare system.

It was said to be the largest Electronic Warfare System in India when deliveries began in January 2004.

Tata's aviation business, Tata-Sikorsky, is joint venture for manufacturing aerospace components and systems in India, specifically cabins for Sikorsky's S-92 helicopter.

Production began last November, 14 months after the agreement was signed, at a new facility in the Aerospace Park on the outskirts of Hyderabad, in Andhra Pradesh state.

It was in June 2009 that the Indian conglomerate Tata joined forces with Sikorsky as a way into India's lucrative aerospace industry. Tata Advanced Systems, a subsidiary of the holding firm Tata Sons, is leading the joint venture.

At the time of the joint venture signing in 2009, Jeffrey Pino, president of Sikorsky Aircraft Corp., said they were "proud to have the highly admired Tata Group join our global supply chain" and "India's aerospace market is poised for significant growth."

Read more: http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... z1ck4rwJxB

koti · Post by **koti** » 10 Nov 2011 21:15

Is it possible to commission the radar systems from decommissioned ships and aircraft to any use for active or ad hoc surveillance by ground units?

Was it documented anywhere?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 10 Nov 2011 23:54

12.AESA FCR: Active Array system for the Light Combat Aircraft & possible future applications. Currently in development. Project launched in November 2008. India's first X Band AESA system. To speed up development, LRDE will work with a development partner to leverage mature X Band Tx/Rx modules for an Active Array Unit, while it develops the ERP (Exciter Receiver and Processor, as a single LRU) inhouse.

who did they end up partnering with for the modules?
Salex or Elta?

http://www.enotes.com/topic/Electronics ... ablishment

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 12 Nov 2011 06:23

India eyeing airborne surveillance and reconnaissance radars.

Indian Air Force, seeking airborne surveillance and reconnaissance radars to beef up security along India's long borders, has sent two Requests for Information (RFIs) to US-based defence equipment major Raytheon, a top company official said.

"We have received two RFIs from the IAF... We have responded to them but it is very early stages of forming the requirements," Justin Monger, Business Manager for Raytheon's Integrated Defence Systems, told visiting Indian reporters here in this city in Arizona state.

Monger said the IAF has not yet apparently decided whether it wants to go for the Active Electronically Scanned Array (AESA) system or Mechanically Scanned Arrangement.

"Given the long border and geographic challenges, the surveillance aircraft has to go high up, may be 40,000 feet. In view of these fundamental constraints, a high powered AESA radar on board a business jet like Gulf Stream or Bombardier (is required)," he said when asked which of the two systems would suit the IAF needs.

Monger said, however, IAF will have to specify its needs and the company would accordingly suggest a solution.

"It will be a big jump (for IAF) to switch to AESA," he added.

Giving the details of the ISTAR (Intelligence, Surveillance, Targetting, Aerial Reconnaissance) Programme, he said the system can scan 34,000 square kilometres in a minute while it can assess and analyse an image within 15 minutes.

"Another aircraft can take over the reconnaissance and surveillance when the first aircraft has to land... The new aircraft can take over all the processed and unprocessed data from the first aircraft," he said.

The ISTAR programme is on the lines of ASTOR (Airborne STand-Off Radar) programme produced by Raytheon Company for Royal Air Force of the United Kingdom.

Monger said the system provides a highly effective, all weather, day and night and target acquisition capabilities at the same time.

"It was used during Operation Herrick (in Afghanistan) and Operation Ellamy (in Libya). It was used for round the clock coverage in Afghanistan and is still doing 50 missions a month (each mission is around 11 to 12 hours)," he added.

Monger said the coverage provided by the AESA system is near real time.

koti · Post by **koti** » 25 Nov 2011 16:31

koti wrote:Is it possible to commission the radar systems from decommissioned ships and aircraft to any use for active or ad hoc surveillance by ground units?

Was it documented anywhere?

Any light on this?

And can anyone tell what percent of cost does the radar Tx cost when compared to the cost of the total radar system?

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 26 Nov 2011 20:03

koti wrote:Is it possible to commission the radar systems from decommissioned ships and aircraft to any use for active or ad hoc surveillance by ground units?

No. hardware and processing are fundamentally different for different uses.

koti wrote:And can anyone tell what percent of cost does the radar Tx cost when compared to the cost of the total radar system?

Processing is the most expensive part.

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 27 Nov 2011 12:50

DRDO has floated a tender for X-Band RADARs, what niche will these fill, i can only think of BMD against ICBMs?

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 29 Nov 2011 21:01

Not India related but none the less....
Russia launches radar system to counter US missile shield

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 29 Nov 2011 21:48

the huge new national defence campus in chitradurga is imo a good place to site these cool looking Voronezh-M type early warning radars tall as a 10 storey building. dont know about the physics behind it, but sure looks cool and powerful.

with 5000km range, perhaps another could located in Shillong peak and another in himachal to track all movements over eastern china and tibet, while the chitradurga location covers TSP and the seas.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 29 Nov 2011 21:57

Singha wrote:the huge new national defence campus in chitradurga is imo a good place to site these cool looking Voronezh-M type early warning radars tall as a 10 storey building. dont know about the physics behind it, but sure looks cool and powerful.

BTW i just read on the radar and its not Voronezh-M but Voronezh-DM type , the former is a Metric type and the latter is DeciMetric ( L band ) ....so the one they commisioned today is DM , at some location they have the M variant.