Airborne Early Warning & Control: News & Discussion

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kmc_chacko
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by kmc_chacko »

:D :D :D :D

Congratulation DRDO/IAF
Singha
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

the blending in of that unpainted primer a/c landing was a good chini touch by our brazilian friend. leaves open the question as to how many are flying or the lone proto flying for how long and whether people are lying about no systems being integrated yet...he he he.....ofcourse a bit of shrubbery in the foreground and having to run with a jerky handheld camcorder when a local cop car arrives would be have been better.
Rupak
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Rupak »

Embraer rocks!
Kartik
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Kartik »

They surely do. Dec 7th was the date given for first flight and they've not disappointed.
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

takeaway - get rid of the corpse called Indo-Rus MTA and hook in with them for MTA-Nuova.

atleast we will see it in our lifetimes and IAF order will reduce unit cost.
Surya
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Surya »

Singha don't say that - you do not want philip saar to lump brazil witht he capitalists, zionist etc etc group
member_20067
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by member_20067 »

Raman wrote:It is not a full IAF bird yet - it still has a Brazilian civilian registry number (PT-ZNA) - so no roundels or fin flash. (My best guess.)
spot on...!!
Singha
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

a comment on livefist. from a brazilian pov...

Gilberto Rezende said...

We in Brazil are very happy with that joint with Embraer and DRDO because the success of that project could be a first of many Hindu-Brazilian projects.

IF this endeavor proves it is possible effective work two almost opposite tech cultures, Brazil and India could do much help to each other.

India is much more advance in military technologies in general than Brazil and spend so much more but in some areas despite the monetary inferiority Brazil have some to present as a partner.

Must because that lack and continuity of funding Brazilian military and their engineers must be much more careful and conservative in their projects to nail it precisely...

If we can work the cultural tech differences, the result could be very good if both countries manage to increase projects just when Brazil could finally raise the military investments due the near waited oil commercial exploitation in the pre-salt area in the next 5 years.

IF the MMRCA contest and the Brazilian FX-2 goes goes both to the French Rafale it will open a large avenue to many military projects may be target to possible collaboration between Brazil and India...

I hope will be the case...
Lead by this pilot project...
member_20067
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by member_20067 »

sorry to rain on the parade.. but I am not sure what was overall DRDO input in the design of the aircraft and its overall superficial look...

following image is of the same platform for Brazilian Air Force..sure Embraer has been class act for a while...

Image
chackojoseph
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

Prithwiraj wrote:sorry to rain on the parade.. but I am not sure what was overall DRDO input in the design of the aircraft and its overall superficial look...

following image is of the same platform for Brazilian Air Force..sure Embraer has been class act for a while...
......
Why do you even bother to ask? Can't you really see what has been changed in the exteriors? other than the ERJ regular shape, every thing is damn different.

do you really expected the modification look like F-22 or USS Enterprise?
member_20067
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by member_20067 »

chackojoseph wrote:
Prithwiraj wrote:sorry to rain on the parade.. but I am not sure what was overall DRDO input in the design of the aircraft and its overall superficial look...

following image is of the same platform for Brazilian Air Force..sure Embraer has been class act for a while...
......
Why do you even bother to ask? Can't you really see what has been changed in the exteriors? other than the ERJ regular shape, every thing is damn different.

do you really expected the modification look like F-22 or USS Enterprise?
real fun in not the exteriors.. that's all I meant.. if you start jumping in joy by looking at the exterior of an .....
Kersi D
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

Surya wrote:Singha don't say that - you do not want philip saar to lump brazil witht he capitalists, zionist etc etc group
By the way Brazilian chick are "better" than any Natasha.
K
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Kersi D »

Singha wrote:
Gilberto Rezende said...

We in Brazil are very happy with that joint with Embraer and DRDO because the success of that project could be a first of many Hindu-Brazilian projects.
military projects may be target to possible collaboration between Brazil and India...
.....Hindu-Brazilan projects.

I LIKE THAT
Singha
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

its good that the balance beam and the extra vertical antennas were reused from the Ereyie design. these affect the aerodynamics of the plane and embraer would already have licked any stability and stress issues for their national AF. our puppy has more bulges and antennas because we will look to cram in powerful SIGINT and EW capabilities that brazil which operates in a low threat env does not need to care about - yet.

the pakis should also be happy as they can do == given the similar size of the balance beam housing.

if you notice the legs of the balance beam, ours are much fatter and flat looking indicating our radar may be heavier than the original ereyie...whether this is due to "more power" or we are lacking in radar tech vs that ericsson radar is not clear to me.
our beam is also longer imo - there is a overhang ahead of the front legs and the back end goes upto between the twin engines.
vardhank
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by vardhank »

What a mean-looking plane.
Can anyone start figuring out what those antennae and sensors might be?
karan_mc
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by karan_mc »

Image

Uploaded with ImageShack.us
Gurneesh
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Gurneesh »

Prithwiraj wrote:
real fun in not the exteriors.. that's all I meant.. if you start jumping in joy by looking at the exterior of an .....
Without all those extra antennae our AEW&C would not have the added capabilities that it is designed to have (as compared to other ERJ145 based systems).

Indian side decided on what antennae to put and where to put them. Not a trivial job as there are 50 antennae on a plane that small. Indian side decided on the design of the AESA even wrt to it's aerodynamic profile.

Interiors would be relatively easier as the a/c is already qualified to take that load and you would not change the aerodynamic characteristics by putting stuff inside it (as opposed to modding the outer shell).

Sorry to say but you seem to lack some basic understanding of the project and what work (from indian side) will go into it.

I suggest you view this entire presentation made in the previous Aero-India about AEW&C.

jaladipc
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by jaladipc »

Craig Alpert wrote: Image
Imagine we modify our Rambha similarly as a high end ELINT/Jammer. Porkis and chinks will be shitting in their pants.

I love the a$$ part of this AWACS.
Singha
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

rambha is the ideal platform for a desi growler...hopefully this project brings to the table a lot of modules and sw necessary for a growler role.
Will
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Will »

Nice looking chick. I like them petite :wink: but as far as AEW&C are concerned this one seems a lil to petite. Wonder what kind of platform we will move to for the next batch.
Singha
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

Embraer does have bigger jets upto around 737 size in its stable...but if the idea is to contain cost and offload some fns to ground based nodes, the EBM145 or its next larger cousin the EMB175 is the sweet spot. if you look at their website, all their planes have a 2100nm type of range, with the bigger ones carrying more passengers....so unless we need the extra space for more processing racks or operators, smaller is cheaper and more chankian.

the turkish and australia wedgetail looks like a ideal size to me for our next batch of phalcons but remains to be decided with Elta if they can provide a similar T-shaped system or current triangle is still better. we could either go 737 or A330 route. this would be the big dog in the hunting pack with full onboard processing.

http://media.defenseindustrydaily.com/i ... ast_lg.jpg
SaiK
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by SaiK »

Should it not need an yell-band unit? I am sure we need it track and support pak-fa-ish as well. SYRE people up north east will start yelling "jai 20" by 2020.
bmallick
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by bmallick »

Question: Maybe this should be in the newbie thread.

With modern radar arrays, we do not need a rotating antennae system. So we are seeing this antennae unit as a piggy back long this, kinda of like a cylinder. Now the question is wouldn't it be possible to have the array in the tail of the aircraft. Please note that yes conformal skin antennae's are being talked around , but I am not talking of them. What I am saying is, have two tails, with the outer sides of them having the array inside and the inner side having the cooling array. This is the solid part of the tail. The trailing edge of the tail has the usual rudder for control. So what I am saying is a slightly fatter tail section, with the radar array inside it.
VinayG
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by VinayG »

i have a small query can an embraer 195 able to accommodate our future AEW&C equipment if we go for a rotordome :?:
member_20067
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by member_20067 »

VinayG wrote:i have a small query can an embraer 195 able to accommodate our future AEW&C equipment if we go for a rotordome :?:
no ... yes .. may be
krishnan
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by krishnan »

probably not
Lalmohan
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Lalmohan »

Kersi D wrote:
Singha wrote:
Gilberto Rezende said...

We in Brazil are very happy with that joint with Embraer and DRDO because the success of that project could be a first of many Hindu-Brazilian projects.
military projects may be target to possible collaboration between Brazil and India...
.....Hindu-Brazilan projects.

I LIKE THAT
in many parts of the world, particularly latin cultures, "hindu" == indian and "indian" == native american
Singha
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

the real fun will begin when we replace the currently planned radar with a local GMTI/SAR radar tuned to our enemies and change the operator sw for the ground battle control role. no cismoa, no eula, no lectures or advisories.

night will turn to day and the fog of war finally penetrated on a 24x7 basis.

my spider feeling is , its the 2nd product that will come off this basic EMB145 design...and it will follow closely.
NRao
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by NRao »

Vinay G wrote:i have a small query can an embraer 195 able to accommodate our future AEW&C equipment if we go for a rotordrome :?:
Anything can be done at a cost of redesign.

Just as a FYI, the "rotodome" normally rotates. In the case of the Phalcon it does not rotate. And, the "rotodome" is designed to generate a lift that is about the same weight as itself.
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Shrinivasan »

Singha, when we have the Mark II of this bird, we will have a Desi JSTAR... sort of a DEATH STAR for the Pukes and the Lizard!!!
Bihanga
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Bihanga »

Masha-allah, subhan allah. This baby looks deadlier then even our Phalcons. We must procue atleast 100s of this awacs.
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by shiv »

Prithwiraj wrote:sorry to rain on the parade.. but I am not sure what was overall DRDO input in the design of the aircraft and its overall superficial look...

following image is of the same platform for Brazilian Air Force..sure Embraer has been class act for a while...

Image
I can see some glaring differences.
Image
Austin
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Austin »

Embraer/DRDO AWACS has killer looks

Both brazil and indian awacs use same E-145 platform but the Indian one has additional sensors , satcoms ,Refulling probe and many HF antenna compared to brazil ones.
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by anishns »

Lalmohan wrote:
in many parts of the world, particularly latin cultures, "hindu" == indian and "indian" == native american
Lalmohan / Kersi D....in espanol/portuguese "Hindu" (pronounced as "Indu" coz' H is silent in spanish) means Indian or from India.

"Indio" is native american
Singha
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

well one cannot blame the brazilians for a more austere monitoring mode version - the worst threat is airborne smugglers and drug planes there. argentina, uruguay, chile, paraguay are 180' opposite from the sino-pak combo as neighbours.

our kid may be small but has to be a real hard boiled egg, a guy with chip on shoulder.
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by vic »

It woud be interesting to see, which aircraft is used for follow on larger AEWs. If heavier aircraft with similar configuration (using engines near the tail) is to be used then Gulfstream comes to mind. Though if it possible to use E-190s then the Emb JV can be carried forward.
anishns
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by anishns »

^^^

There is also the Bombardier CRJ series

CRJ 1000
vic
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by vic »

anishns wrote:^^^

There is also the Bombardier CRJ series

CRJ 1000
I think both Gulfstream and Emb have made airframes for AEWs, what about Bombardier? Some other interesting featuers of Gulfstream are small size (even with long range/heavy MTOW), higher speed, higher flight ceiling etc. Gulfstream/Bombds build for VIP travel translates better into AEWs compared to passenger aircraft which suffer with bigger cabin size, which is not requried in AEWs beyond a point.
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Re: AEW&C News & Discussion

Post by Singha »

in that case some of the bombardier global 7000/8000, gulfstream 550/650 and dassault falcon900 fit the bill.
all of them have high speed, 13000km of range and can carry around 10 passengers in executive seating. in contrast the smaller passenger oriented jets seldom have more than 4000km of range because they dont need to fly non-stop across such long trans oceanic routes.
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