India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

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pentaiah
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by pentaiah »

Got this in email from a friend a PhD from BARC

..........



Amazing story

IITian and rickshawala. Very interesting


There were two rickshaw-walas vying for our business when we wanted to go to Sankat-Mochan temple in Benaras. I agreed to go with the one who was about 20, seemed like a regular young rickshaw-wala, but I found something interesting about this fellow in his eyes. I was not proved wrong.
He wanted Rs 50, we said Rs 30. We settled for 40.
Here are the highlights of the conversation that ensued while he rode the rickshaw:

"Aap kahan se aaye hain"
"Delhi"
"Bijness ya kaam karte hain?"
"Naukri karte hain"
"Kismein"
"Internet mein"
"Humara bhi kuch wahin kaam lagwa do"
I just chuckled
"Main try kar raha hoon engineering padhne kee. achchi naukri lag jaayegi tab"
"Achcha?" I asked a little interested
"Haan, delhi mein Guru Gobind Singh Indraprashta University mein engineering ke liye apply kara hai. achchi hai woh university"
"Haan, achchi hai", I agreed.
"Haan, kal hee maine JEE bhi diya"
"JEE matlab, IIT ka?"
"Haan, Joint Entrance Examination" he pronounced it perfectly just to make it clear to me what JEE stood for. "mushkil hota hai exam"
"Haan, 2 saal toh log padhte hee hain uske liye, asaan nahin hai" I
carried on the conversation
"Delhi mein Akaash coaching institute hain na?"
"Haan, hai"
"Aapne kya padhai kari?"
"Main engineer hoon, aur phir mba bhi kiya"
"Kahan se engineer?"
"IIT delhi se"
He swung back, surprised, a little delighted, and smiled. "Ok, aapke liye Rs 30"
Swati and I laughed Swati asked "padhai kab karte they IIT ke liye"
"Bas, rickshaw chalaane ke baad raat mein". Then he added "kismein engineering kari aapne?"
"Chemical"
"Toh aapki chemistry toh badi strong hogi"
"Nahin, aisa nahin hai"
He continued "yeh bataiye....jab Mendeleev ne Periodic Table banaya tha tab kitne elements they usmein?"
Now it was my turn to get surprised. He was quizzing me. I said "shayad 70-80"
"No, 63" he said sharply. "kaunse element kee electronegativity highest hai?"
Swati was laughing, and I didn't try too hard and said "pata nahin"
"Flourine", he said confidently. Without a break he asked,"kaunse
element kee electron affinity highest hoti hai?"
Now I was laughing too and said "nahin pata"
"Chlorine. toh aapka kaunsa subject strong tha?" clearly having proven that my chemistry wasn't a strong point "Physics", I said
"Achha, Newton's second law of motion kya hai"
I knew this one I thought, "F=ma" I said
"Physics is not about formula, it is understanding concept!" he
reprimanded me in near perfect English. "Tell me in statement"
I was shocked. Swati continued to laugh.
I said "ok, Newton's second law, er....was...."
" 'Was' nahin, 'is'! Second law abhi bhi hai!" he snapped at my use of 'was'
Surely, my physics wasn't impressing him either. "yaad nahin, I said"
"Force on an object is directly proportional to the mass of the object and the acceleration of the object", he said it in near perfect
English. "aapne MTech nahin kiya?"
"Nahin, MBA kiya"
"MBA waale toh sirf paisa kamana chahte hain, kaam nahin karte"
"Nahin, aisa nahin hai, paisa kamaane ke liye kaam karna padta hai"
He said "arrey, rehene do" or some words to that effect. He didnt think too highly of me apparently anymore.
In a minute we reached our destination. We got off and I told him that he must and should definitely study more, and that I think he is sharp as hell.

He took only Rs 30, smiled and began to leave.

I got my camera out and said "Raju, ek photo leta hoon tumhari".

He waved me off, dismissed the idea and rode off before I could say anything more.... leaving me feeling high and dry like a spurned lover.
Damn, what a ride that was!

India is changing, and changing fast!
.......
I am so happy there is hope
Pentaiah
Suresh S
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by Suresh S »

Pentaiah,

Boss you made my day. Oh man that was something :D
akashganga
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by akashganga »

Pentaiah,

That is a moving story. I hope that boy gets admission in a good school and he will do wonders in his career. There is so much raw talent available in our country.
Vipul
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by Vipul »

Govt to pump in Rs 15,000 cr to augment military production.

With focus on indigenisation to avoid scams in foreign acquisition, Defence Ministry today said it will be pumping Rs 15,000 crore to augment domestic military production for systems such as the indigenous 155mm artillery guns.The major plans of the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) include the augmentation of the production capabilities for T-90 and T-72 tanks, engines for armoured vehicles and setting up of 155mm howitzer production plants.

The Ministry's Department of Defence Production said it has hiked the allocation from Rs 583 crore during the 11th Plan period to Rs 15,000 crore for modernisation of the production capabilities of the OFB during the current Plan term."The OFB has an ambitious plan of modernisation envisaging investment of around Rs 15,000 crore during the 12th plan period," it said in its Annual Report issued today.

After the recent VVIP chopper scam, Defence Minister A K Antony had stated that indigenous defence production was the only answer to avoid such scandals and had said his Ministry would change policies in this regard.

On the OFB's plans and projects undertaken by it, the Ministry said the list includes "upgunning of 130mm M46 field artillery guns to 155mm 45 calibre standard, development of 155mm 52 calibre mounted howitzers and integration of the 105mm field guns (???) on the BMP combat vehicles." On the development of the indigenous guns, the Ministry said it is planned to provide two 155mm 45 calibre guns to the Army this month for field evaluation. The Indian Army has been deprived of even a single piece of new artillery after the Bofors scandal in the 1980s as due to one reason or the other, several tenders have been cancelled by the Ministry.
SaiK
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by SaiK »

an half hour more ride would have resulted in higgs boson sparkling from his rick engine.
fanne
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by fanne »

They are making SPG out of 105mm, a poor man choice. I would say not bad.
RoyG
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by RoyG »

The South African G7 howitzer is 105mm and is undergoing weight reduction to make it 2500 kg with a range of 32-36 km.
vic
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by vic »

Last para of the article are all proposals of OFB which were rejected. 105mm SPG on BMP chassis was rejected by army due to lack of BBB
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by rohitvats »

vic wrote:Last para of the article are all proposals of OFB which were rejected. 105mm SPG on BMP chassis was rejected by army due to lack of BBB
:roll: :roll: :roll:
shiv
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by shiv »

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19998

In the long term this is good news. If we must learn the hard way we must learn the hard way. All those people slobbering after imports need to face this by the nation getting screwed first.
for India, it will become the conventional version of the global nuclear suppliers' regime. Once this treaty goes through India will have to provide similar kinds of end-user verification and access to satisfy exporters that it does with nuclear imports.

India feels the burden of obligations rests largely on the importers because they have to satisfy the exporters on end-user verification, on keeping national records of weapons and ammunition used, etc. In fact, New Delhi wanted ammunition transfers to stay out of the treaty's scope, but that too fell by the wayside.

A lot of international arms transfers are no longer outright sales, but incorporate leases, and even barter deals in exchange for resources etc. That should have been part of the treaty but it isn't. The treaty absolves any state which transfers arms under its own control if it states that it retains control of such arms. This means diversions and illicit transfers will continue to happen under different guises.

The treaty applies to transfers of battle tanks, armoured combat vehicles, large caliber artillery systems, combat aircraft, attack helicopters, warships, missiles and missile launchers, small and light weapons, while ammunition and parts and components are also brought under scrutiny.
pankajs
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by pankajs »

shiv wrote:http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19998

In the long term this is good news. If we must learn the hard way we must learn the hard way.
Agreed. Just the threat of such a proposal will force our decision makers to review allocation for indigenous projects. Hopefully we will see increased allocation for R&D and production of indigenous systems.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by Singha »

until my previous batch in NIT-W(1994 pass out), there was 1st yr workship and and 2nd yr workshop with 2nd yr being on machines. due to lack of student interest and perceived lack of such knowledge for other branches, this was discontinued from 1995 and we just had 1st yr lab involving some basic carpentry, welding, filing, cutting and sand moulding manually.

only the mech and meta guys had these labs from 2nd yr onwards I think.
shiv
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by shiv »

Singha wrote:until my previous batch in NIT-W(1994 pass out), there was 1st yr workship and and 2nd yr workshop with 2nd yr being on machines. due to lack of student interest and perceived lack of such knowledge for other branches, this was discontinued from 1995 and we just had 1st yr lab involving some basic carpentry, welding, filing, cutting and sand moulding manually.

only the mech and meta guys had these labs from 2nd yr onwards I think.
You know I betcha your teachers - many of whom would have been 1970 to 1980 pass out would themselves have ignored these courses in their college days - so I think this has been going back to the 50s and 60s.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by chetak »

Vipul wrote:Govt to pump in Rs 15,000 cr to augment military production.

With focus on indigenisation to avoid scams in foreign acquisition, Defence Ministry today said it will be pumping Rs 15,000 crore to augment domestic military production for systems such as the indigenous 155mm artillery guns.The major plans of the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) include the augmentation of the production capabilities for T-90 and T-72 tanks, engines for armoured vehicles and setting up of 155mm howitzer production plants.

The Ministry's Department of Defence Production said it has hiked the allocation from Rs 583 crore during the 11th Plan period to Rs 15,000 crore for modernisation of the production capabilities of the OFB during the current Plan term."The OFB has an ambitious plan of modernisation envisaging investment of around Rs 15,000 crore during the 12th plan period," it said in its Annual Report issued today.

After the recent VVIP chopper scam, Defence Minister A K Antony had stated that indigenous defence production was the only answer to avoid such scandals and had said his Ministry would change policies in this regard.

On the OFB's plans and projects undertaken by it, the Ministry said the list includes "upgunning of 130mm M46 field artillery guns to 155mm 45 calibre standard, development of 155mm 52 calibre mounted howitzers and integration of the 105mm field guns (???) on the BMP combat vehicles." On the development of the indigenous guns, the Ministry said it is planned to provide two 155mm 45 calibre guns to the Army this month for field evaluation. The Indian Army has been deprived of even a single piece of new artillery after the Bofors scandal in the 1980s as due to one reason or the other, several tenders have been cancelled by the Ministry.
As has frequently happened in the past, all sorts of shady, retired, bottom feeding scum will surface to set up lucrative "ancillary" industries and siphon off the money with the active participation of "management". Already many such "experts" have been rehired after retirement on very lucrative terms just to come and sleep in their old offices.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by Victor »

pankajs wrote: Just the threat of such a proposal will force our decision makers to review allocation for indigenous projects. Hopefully we will see increased allocation for R&D and production of indigenous systems.
It could be much more than a threat if it goes to vote on Tuesday because it will need just 50 votes to pass. While it is indeed a wake-up kick in the bols for India's inability to produce its own weapons, the real danger is that we throw vast amounts of money into a hole without fixing the causes of our failure so far. If we don't fix the problems, we may end up merely scaling up our lack of success and also open ourselves to humiliation. Funding is just one side of the coin. A complete rethink on our inefficient PSUs is the other. We have all the ingredients to succeed and I hope we now find the will and the wisdom.
pankajs
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by pankajs »

India: Tejas must be operational by 2014
Defense Minister A.K. Antony warned the government's defense businesses to make sure the long-awaited Tejas Light Combat Aircraft is ready no later than 2014.

Antony's warning was part of a general statement during his opening presentation to the 37th Directors Conference at the Defense Research and Development Organization.

Antony urged government-run agencies -- in particular the DRDO -- to speed up their work.

It was DRDO Chief V.K. Saraswat who set the date, he said, when the Tejas should pass final operational clearance for induction into the air force.

Antony praised the completed projects including the Agni-5 and the BrahMos missile systems as examples of good indigenous research and development.

But DRDO scientists should focus on priority areas where the ultimate test of success of the organization, its products and services lies in satisfaction of end-users, India's armed forces, he said.

"The successes shouldn't make us complacent and unfinished projects, which are in the pipeline for a very long time, should be concluded at the earliest," Antony said.

To achieve this, the DRDO remains essential for development of the country's defense manufacturing sector, he said.

"If our indigenization goals are to be realized, DRDO will have to take the lead in this regard," Antony said. "Other stakeholders, for instance the (military) services, the Ministry of Defense and private industry in the defense sector, must cooperate to ensure quick, honest and transparent acceptance of the systems."

The single-engine, single-pilot Tejas, being manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd., was given the green light by the government in 1983 but it wasn't until 1988 that more concrete designs were on the drawing board.

Delays ensued, including issues over the design and performance of the intended Kaveri engine, a DRDO partnership deal with Snecma of France.

A Tejas prototype eventually flew for the first time in January 2001 -- but with a U.S.-made General Electric F-404 engine as a stop-gap.

A long-term deal with GE for 99 engines -- likely the upgraded 414 -- worth $800 million was signed this year because of further delays to development of the Kaveri engine. GE won over Eurojet's EJ-200 engine, a report by the Deccan Herald newspaper said.

Last month, the DRDO confirmed it had abandoned plans to jointly develop and produce the Kaveri military aircraft engine solely with Snecma, a report by AIN Online news said.

"We still need an overseas partner but it won't be Snecma on a single-vendor basis," C.P. Ramanarayanan, director of the DRDO's Gas Turbine Research Establishment, said. "We will select our partner through competitive bidding."
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by RoyG »

shiv wrote:http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=19998

In the long term this is good news. If we must learn the hard way we must learn the hard way. All those people slobbering after imports need to face this by the nation getting screwed first.
for India, it will become the conventional version of the global nuclear suppliers' regime. Once this treaty goes through India will have to provide similar kinds of end-user verification and access to satisfy exporters that it does with nuclear imports.

India feels the burden of obligations rests largely on the importers because they have to satisfy the exporters on end-user verification, on keeping national records of weapons and ammunition used, etc. In fact, New Delhi wanted ammunition transfers to stay out of the treaty's scope, but that too fell by the wayside.

A lot of international arms transfers are no longer outright sales, but incorporate leases, and even barter deals in exchange for resources etc. That should have been part of the treaty but it isn't. The treaty absolves any state which transfers arms under its own control if it states that it retains control of such arms. This means diversions and illicit transfers will continue to happen under different guises.

The treaty applies to transfers of battle tanks, armoured combat vehicles, large caliber artillery systems, combat aircraft, attack helicopters, warships, missiles and missile launchers, small and light weapons, while ammunition and parts and components are also brought under scrutiny.
We will have to free up the private sector, create a competitive university research system, and rely on industrial espionage when necessary.
SaiK
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by SaiK »

or wait till the whole world is forward, and we are totally phased out.. and then throw open to private industries.. none, even pakis would not be interested in stealing it.
Victor
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by Victor »

RoyG wrote:We will have to...rely on industrial espionage when necessary
For the past 60+ years, we have been given blueprints, training and instruction manuals to manufacture jets, engines, transports, tanks and guns but we are still importing basic trainer aircraft, infantry rifles and ammunition. Industrial espionage is only for those who know what they are stealing, can digest the info and then make something out of it. Our problem is obviously not the lack of information.
..free up the private sector..
The "private sector" vs "public sector" argument should be completely irrelevant to us. What matters is that things get done and this can only happen with the right people, the right incentives and the right funding. There's no magic to it. The private sector tends to have the best people and incentives while the public sector has all the funding. We need to find our own unique mix between these two extremes.

Pouring thousands of crores into public sector projects will not guarantee any results. Their people are governed by a culture of seniority, perks and political patronage. It doesn't matter how brilliant a scientist is in this setup, the system will encourage him not to rock the boat and show his brilliance. After some time, he will either get out or settle into the "system". Nobody has an incentive to take a risk so they don't. This is how OFB quietly sat on Bofors 155mm ToT blueprints for 30 years while the army frantically sought to plug its gaps and why HAL trotted out a trainer mockup only after the Pilatus was ordered in spite of knowing decades ago that a replacement would be needed. We cannot afford this kind of waste.

Offering the private sector a "piece of the pie" in a condescending manner is also not an answer. They will simply reject the offer if they are constrained by political and beaurucratic red tape and not guaranteed a profit as they recently did with the Avro replacement. They are however willing to take calculated risks as this is built into their DNA. Calling the private sector "greedy" is ignorant. In the US, a typical defence contractor is funded up front by the govt for research, tooling and materials and guaranteed a reasonable profit, even if the contract is stopped midway. It is in the US govt's interest that the company emerges stronger and more experienced after the contract and can afford to take more calculated risks by itself. This doesn't mean we should blindly copy these things but we should surely learn what is helpful to us.

IMO, there are several world class aircraft and armaments companies hidden within HAL, ADA, GTRE and DRDO waiting to be liberated from our own stupidity.
manum
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by manum »

^^^ we have all it takes...all we need is a pressure cooker with fire beneath...

and food will be cooked, quiet early..
SaiK
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by SaiK »

then the food will be burnt, or done late, we will have loss due to starvation. like viv said, doing it right is needed. but, given the gov setup, that can't happen.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by RamaY »

This is a good development.

This will enable India to enter into development partnerships in key technologies while developing indegeneous capability in other areas.

In otherwords the western dominated UN is forcing the world to join one or the other group. Seeds of next world-war (covert, overt, cold, hot, warm whatever) are sown.

A good outcome from this, if enforced properly is to force the Islamic bloc into perpetual slavery. AoA onlee.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by Karan M »

You cannot wake up anyone pretending to be asleep.
Simple fact is that there are tens of thousands of workers in the DPSUs who will go on strike if privatization of defence is allowed. Speak to anyone from DRDO etc and they fully support privatization. To paraphrase Saraswats own words, India needs a dozen DRDO's to manage the scale of requirements it has. But go ahead and talk of private sector or the like, and the DPSUs will be full of lal salaam and black flag marches
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by Karan M »

pentaiah wrote:Got this in email from a friend a PhD from BARC
I am so happy there is hope
Pentaiah
An apocryphal story perhaps, but also shows the wrong kind of thinking being bred into people about what is a "good profession" -i.e. engineer, versus whoever is not. India needs all kinds- from the business folks able to get business into India, to engineers of all kinds, to savvy bureaucrats able to work the system efficiently..
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by pentaiah »

No he , the rickshaw puller wanted Engineer to be engineer not IIT then hop IIM
Then on to lever brothers to pull levers or to sell Lipton layoo ji chai or play with derivatives using Fourier transforms....

The boy thought engineering was noble profession but the rider MBA wallah did not think so
None of then is wrong only the fate of India is wrong

To think its apocryphal is the end of hope.

Remember Kalam was a fisherman s son who studied in utter poverty conditions and I am sure his story also in India is not apocryphal, please correct me If It is so
member_22539
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by member_22539 »

^ A whinefest that says nothing new, largely ignoring India's strengths, exaggerating its weaknesses, and wilfully overemphasising the military prowess of its adversaries while ignoring obvious faults with regard to them.

In the end, if articles like these scares someone into improving things or at least paying attention, I guess its worth it.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by VinodTK »

Why does not India possess an indigenous arms industry?
:
:
:
Defence deal bribes, add insiders, normally amount to about 10 per cent of the total contract value, with a lion’s share going to politicians. Middle-men normally get around three per cent with bureaucrats and officers from the Army, Navy and the IAF sharing the rest of the spoils.
:
:
:
shiv
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by shiv »

VinodTK wrote:Why does not India possess an indigenous arms industry?
:
:
:
Defence deal bribes, add insiders, normally amount to about 10 per cent of the total contract value, with a lion’s share going to politicians. Middle-men normally get around three per cent with bureaucrats and officers from the Army, Navy and the IAF sharing the rest of the spoils.
:
:
:
What is left out of some of these analyses is a mental profile of the average educated Indian who is taught that Indian stuff is rubbish to be sneered at. This sentiment exists across the board for Indians. Outside of BRF it is widespread on other boards and even people in industry and defence feel that way - they automatically and instinctively reject Indian stuff as low quality and or bad. On another board (not BRF) I have seen knowledgeable Indians reject OFB stuff, some of which they have neither seen nor used, as rubbish without pondering for even one minute as to how the Indian army has fought wars primarily with OFB weapons

This sentiment is jarring when one considers that most educated Indians are always showing off about how Indians are so smart and how they have flooded the IT world or NASA or whatever. No one stops to ask why Indian stuff is so bad if Indians are so smart.

The truth is one of the following:

1. Indian stuff is all bad and Indians are not as smart as they think
2. Indian stuff is not always as bad as made out to be and some smart Indians exist
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by Shrinivasan »

^^^ Shiv Saar at his Pisko best...
Indians always had this awe for "things foreign"... probably the remnants of being a former colony... i remember stories of Gelf sarees being lapped from in "the gods own country" when they were actually made in Gujarat. when i was a kid, my parents used the buy nivea cream... the shop keeper used to offer imported Nivea at three times the price as the local one and people used to prefer that... eventhough both are the same product (in a different tin)...

Indian stuff is not all bad, but there are rotten apples... the sheer lack of focus on quality has dogged us for decades and that has created a major roadblock for desi products... it is the same in Chineese products but then they have managed to penetrate every conceivable sector.

There are many smart Indians... but most of them (including yours truly) work in shores beyond desh... when desh manages to attract it diaspora back in large numbers will be able to move to the next level. there are many ways to move forward but this is one i can think off.
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by pentaiah »

Indian made is shitty most often because there is no motivation or punitive damages sanctioned against low quality supply after getting a order or shipping great stuff during QC QA and equipment trial models.

We don't follow the simple adage " cheat me in the price but in the quality"

It's because of our political administrative, and merchant class compromise in integrity.
( it happens in every country but once the law starts churning its go to logical end)

It's not because India and Indians can't produce quality material we did it for eons, we now do it sporadically here and there.

One simple point
Those of you who have been to Tirupathi recently last two or three years
You will notice near the main hundi where devotees drop offerings , TTD recently made a gold covering for a statute of Godess Laxmi
The covering is skewed and not symmetric, it is easily visible to eye ?
We don't care for detail, there is no pride in doing and sayin I did it with my hands.

The chalta hai attitude is the down fall and hence the image, in addition no consistency in quality
Even in wada sambar or kootu in so called quality hotels.

Just my two cents of pisko
vic
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by vic »

I completely disagree with this continuous knee jerk criticism of OFB. OFB was called upon by Army to turn out 155mm howitzer and they did it in record 18 months because Govt sanctioned Rs. 350 crores for setting up a manufacturing plant. In last 5 years, "the saint" has done everything to kill indigenous manufacturing and promote only & only imports. The total budget sanctioned to OFB was only Rs. 500 crores (XIth plan)which is now being hiked to Rs 15,000 crores (XIIth Plan) as the Govt is outgoing. While there are a lot of things that can be improved in OFB but it does not mean that it is completely useless. OFB has done reasonable work for the very limited funds being allocated to it. The first and foremost problem in OFB, DRDO, DPSUs is peanut type of budgets which I have repeatedly high lighted in various posts. Army is using the criticism of OFB as pretext to order imports in everything, we should not fall into the trap.
member_22539
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by member_22539 »

+1 Although I would like competition for stuff like small arms and ammunition at least.
Vipul
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by Vipul »

SAIL to set up Titanium Project in Kerala.

Steel Authority of India Ltd (SAIL), the Kerala State Industrial Development Corporation (KSIDC) and Kerala Minerals and Metals Ltd (KMML) signed a MoU on Thursday for setting up a joint venture titanium project in Kerala.

According to a SAIL note, the project will entail setting up of a titanium sponge and metal plant in the first phase. KMML will supply titanium tetrachloride, which is the key raw material. SAIL Chairman C.S. Verma said that the company would constitute a dedicated team of officers. “All efforts will be made to ensure timely completion of various activities in relation to the project,’’ he added.

This will be another major titanium project in Kerala, after the nation's first titanium sponge plant was set up at KMML’s Chavara complex as a collaboration between KMML, Vikram Sarabhai Space Centre and the Defence Metallurgical Research Laboratory in 2011.
ramana
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by ramana »

We know have milestones to track progress for some critical projects.


CCS tells DRDO to accelerate Military projects


From PTI:
Against the backdrop of long delays in its projects, the Government today asked the premier research agency Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) to accelerate the work on its major military development programmes and complete them in time.


{Shoudln't GOI be telling and not asking the DRDO? Is the reporter or his sources confused about the directive or its the reality?}

The Cabinet Committee on Security headed by Prime Minister Manmohan Singh was briefed by the DRDO on its major projects including the futuristic Agni-6 and the recently launched Agni-5 long-range missile programmes.

Sources told PTI here that during the presentation, the members of the CCS asked the DRDO to "accelerate" its projects in order to meet the requirement of the armed forces in a time-bound manner and from indigenous sources.

During the meeting, the DRDO was appreciated for its achievements in the missile development programmer especially the recent success of the Agni-5 and Agni-4 missile programmes, they said.

DRDO also informed the CCS that it has helped in enhancing indigenisation of military requirements up to 55 per cent.

The premier research agency is also understood to have told the CCS about the issues faced by it in completion of several delayed projects including the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA), the Long-range Surface to Air Missile (LR-SAM), Kaveri jet engine and the Airborne Early Warning and Control System (AEW&C) projects.


{Were they technical, cost factors that affected the schedules?}

Recently, the Defence Ministry had informed Parliament that several major DRDO projects were facing delays up to 12 years.

The AEW&C system had its initial date of completion as October 2011 but it was revised to March 2014 and the LR-SAM was to be completed originally by May 2011, but is now running behind by four years and will be completed by December 2015.

The Kaveri jet engine was supposed to have been completed by 1996, but has been given an extension of 13 years.
IOW Milestones for project completion are:
- AEW&C March 2014
- LR-SAM Decemebr 2015
- Kaveri 2016 (No Month could mean December)

Wish they don't use the wrod futuristic which implies way out in the future and definitely not like its something from Science Fiction.

Interesting that LCA project completion date was not mentioned.
Karan M
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by Karan M »

ramana wrote:IOW Milestones for project completion are:
- AEW&C March 2014
- LR-SAM Decemebr 2015
- Kaveri 2016 (No Month could mean December)

Wish they don't use the wrod futuristic which implies way out in the future and definitely not like its something from Science Fiction.

Interesting that LCA project completion date was not mentioned.
Ramana this is all global gyaan from the politicians without addressing any of the root cause issues that delay projects - like insufficient funding and infrastructure, lack of implementation on any national vision in addressing capex intensive but strategic requirements (like local investments in semiconductors for instance), no MOD coordination in terms of an aerospace cell or having the services set up a project management agency to closely work with defence scientists/manufacturers to ensure minimal bureaucratic delay, prevent scope creep etc.

For instance what talk of Kaveri delays when funds are not available for setting up the comprehensive infrastructure to support a long term engine development plan. The Chinese went ahead and had Russia build them the exact aircraft with podded engine testbed, which India has to hire from Russia as and when it is available. The Chinese invest in multiple programs, with the foreknowledge that 2 out of those three may fail or deliver questionable results. The 1 that delivers will still help them keep their funds and knowledge inhouse. In India, we fall over ourselves to sign onto a $10 no wait $14 no wait...MMRCA plan etc.

So, every x or so years, the next set of worthies will sit together after chai-samosa and take a cursory look at dates and the budget, make some comments, have it released in PTI etc, rinse, lather and repeat
They have no incentive to actually support local development, it will kill the goose of imports that finances elections and all things besides.
Victor
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by Victor »

Indians always had this awe for "things foreign"..
Dunno how long you've avoided India but this is a bogus 80s and 90s lament. Example: poor Indians don't buy SUVs and the top three SUVs in India are:

1. Mahindra XUV500
2. Mahindra Scorpio
3. Tata Safari

These are 100% Indian designs, Indian engines. The "things foreign" will be bought by those who have the money to blow on vanity no matter which country you are in. My snooty neighbor has a Range Rover and won't take it out when it snows or rains. Maybe I should go over and congratulate him on buying a nice Indian car :P
Indian made is shitty most often because there is no motivation or punitive damages
True if you're talking about the PSUs, not Indian private companies that have to survive by competing against foreign products.

Again, none of this "motivation" or "punitive damages" stuff has anything to do with Indians in particular. It is a universal thing and can be seen graphically in the sorry state of the United States Postal Service today. The US Govt, the messiah of "free trade", has pumped the USPS with funding upto this public sector gorilla's gills but it is still nowhere compared to the likes of UPS or Fedex which actually charge more for the same services. The only option now seems to be to let the USPS go bankrupt.
vic
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by vic »

LR SAM is practically Israeli project with minimal DRDO involvement except observing & co- ordinating. How come DRDO is being blamed?
vipins
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Re: India's R&D in Defence DRDO, PSUs and Private Sector

Post by vipins »

New special grade steel make from SAIL plant
Alloy Steels Plant (ASP) of SAIL said on Thursday that it produced for the first time in the country a special grade steel (DMR-292A), meant for use in submarines, for the Indian Navy.
Last year, it supplied another special (DMR-249B) grade steel, equivalent to Russian AB2 grade steel that went into manufacturing of India’s first indigenously-built aircraft carrier.
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