Pakistan arms sales, ops, doctrine, etc

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 25 Apr 2012 00:48

Nice that the porks are testing it in Indian ocean I hope our guys have decided to station radars to map the RV's behaviour during re-entry, the data will surely help in fine tuning our ABM programme.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 25 Apr 2012 03:01

Austin wrote:Pakistan-China Joint Mil exercise YOUYI-IV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIk__i7J0xU

All the moves look so "filmy" ... I mean the jeep spinning at 0:31, the slides at 0:40 ... The stunts between 2:21 to 2:35 are classics What is the objective "save the army jeep being stolen away"!! Again at 3:00-3:05, first row of soldiers stand, next squat, next slide in an open field! What will this be used for in real combat?!!

I like the martial arts move though!

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 25 Apr 2012 03:31

To use a phillip saar quote , long ago I said

is we increase our missile range sufficiently then the pakis will increase it enough to just to show off and overshoot us

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 25 Apr 2012 04:25

But what about the moon shot...

arun · Post by **arun** » 25 Apr 2012 08:22

The Punjabi Sunni Mohammadden uniformed Jihadis of the Army of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan appear to have kept the violence that has engulfed Pakistan away from its recruiting home ground.

There has been no terrorist incident in Pakistan occupied Punjab for 15 months that to with the last incident targeting Shia Mohammaddens who do not form the recruiting backbone of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Armed Forces.

Coincidence or a consequence of a deal where by the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s Army has permitted its jihadi assets free run of the rest of Pakistan in return for keeping out of Pakistan occupied Punjab?

Terror strikes Lahore after 15 months

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 25 Apr 2012 10:14

indranilroy wrote:
Austin wrote:Pakistan-China Joint Mil exercise YOUYI-IV

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BIk__i7J0xU
All the moves look so "filmy" ... I mean the jeep spinning at 0:31, the slides at 0:40 ... The stunts between 2:21 to 2:35 are classics What is the objective "save the army jeep being stolen away"!! Again at 3:00-3:05, first row of soldiers stand, next squat, next slide in an open field! What will this be used for in real combat?!!

I like the martial arts move though!

exactly my thoughts..

watching some of those "stunts", I was just wondering how on earth that would be used in actual combat..it can only serve the purpose of arousing the Chini-Paki dudes online ..maybe they've been watching a lot of movies when formulating what to do during such an exercise..

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 25 Apr 2012 11:01

Kartik wrote: exactly my thoughts.. watching some of those "stunts", I was just wondering how on earth that would be used in actual combat..it can only serve the purpose of arousing the Chini-Paki dudes online ..maybe they've been watching a lot of movies when formulating what to do during such an exercise..

Commies are photo sensitive by nature

abhischekcc · Post by **abhischekcc** » 25 Apr 2012 11:07

keshavchandra wrote:Pakistan to launch long-range missile, informs India
NEW DELHI: Just days after India successfully test fired its first Inter Continental Ballistic Missile (ICBM), Agni-V, Pakistan has said that it plans to conduct a long-range missile test.

The neighbour has informed India that it plans to conduct a long-range missile test in the Indian Ocean over the next five days.

Islamabad has asked New Delhi to issue a notice to all commercial airlines to steer clear of the area.

The move by Pakistan comes just five days after India test fired Agni-V to join the elite club of ICBM nations.
As we all were expecting. A new made in china....jugad.

I hope they remember to change the default target coordinates before the 'test', otherwise the missile will end up hitting Taiwan.

Hiten · Post by **Hiten** » 25 Apr 2012 11:13

pakistan successfully launches Chinese M9 missile after performing glorious paalish with green paint on it using indigenously procreated workforce

http://www.hindustantimes.com/world-new ... 45825.aspx

Renamed Hatf IV after paalish

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 25 Apr 2012 11:14

abhischekcc wrote: I hope they remember to change the default target coordinates before the 'test', otherwise the missile will end up hitting Taiwan.

ROFL.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 25 Apr 2012 11:15

Kartik wrote:exactly my thoughts.. watching some of those "stunts", I was just wondering how on earth that would be used in actual combat..it can only serve the purpose of arousing the Chini-Paki dudes online ..maybe they've been watching a lot of movies when formulating what to do during such an exercise..

shock and awe strategy sarr...your enemy will be in awe watching those moves or roll on the floor laughing at the jokers doing all these

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 25 Apr 2012 11:54

Nikhil T wrote:
abhischekcc wrote: I hope they remember to change the default target coordinates before the 'test', otherwise the missile will end up hitting Taiwan.
ROFL.

I think for that they(paki-chini) had a series of PD, where exactly pak seeking the target coordinates. inside pak like FATA, baluch region etc...(they have many options to choose)...

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 25 Apr 2012 12:07

Pakistan Test Launches Ballistic Missile

Pakistan successfully test-fired on Wednesday an intermediate-range ballistic missile able to carry a nuclear warhead, Pakistan's DawnNews reported.

The Hatf-IV (Shaheen-1A) missile hit a target in the Indian Ocean.

The weapon is an improved version of the the Shaheen 1, Pakistan's Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) department said.

The missile "will further consolidate and strengthen Pakistan's deterrence abilities," said Gen Khalid Kidwai, the head of the Pakistan army's Strategic Plans Division.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 25 Apr 2012 12:11

link

The missile was marked into the Indian ocean and was targeted successfully at its location, said Inter services public relations (ISPR) sources.

Retired General Talat Masood, a defence analyst, told media it would be able to hit targets up to 2,500 to 3,000 kilometres (1,550 to 1,850 miles) away.

Haft 4 is an improvised form of Shaheen 1 missile series in Pakistan and capable of nuclear system.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 25 Apr 2012 12:22

From what i have read it is Shaheen 2 that has a range of 2500 km , Shaheen-1 is around 800 Km and an M-9 clone , me thinks the 1A series is an upgrade with some modification but not with very long range but we will see.

Misraji · Post by **Misraji** » 25 Apr 2012 12:28

Austin wrote:link
The missile was marked into the Indian ocean and was targeted successfully at its location, said Inter services public relations (ISPR) sources.
Retired General Talat Masood, a defence analyst, told media it would be able to hit targets up to 2,500 to 3,000 kilometres (1,550 to 1,850 miles) away.
Haft 4 is an improvised form of Shaheen 1 missile series in Pakistan and capable of nuclear system.

Can never really understand these guys.
They already had missiles that could target India.
What good can come off this test?

After episodes such as Xerox-Khan, Osama-Bin-Laden, PNS Mehran Attacks, Mumbai Attack, now they want to prove that they can target half of the world?

--Ashish

mody · Post by **mody** » 25 Apr 2012 12:32

The Shaheen 1 was said to have a range of about 750 Kms. How come the Shaheen 1A is now quoted as having increased the range to 2,000 Kms???

The porkis seem to have abandoned the NK liquid fueled ding dongs, which were procured in a hurry, for the Solid fueled chinese toys only. The Babur cruise missile (already tested in VLS cannisterised launch) and the Shaheen missiles will form the main backbone of porki missile arsenal. The short range Nasr will act as battlefield tactical missile.

The older liquid fueled Haft-I and Haft II and the Ghauri(No Dong) missiles will eventually be retired. Also the Ghauri was bought and was being handled by A.Q. Khan labs whereas the Shaheen is being handled by other organisations. The A.Q. Khan labs and organisation are in decline.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Apr 2012 12:34

shaheen=DF21. but there are atleast 3 versions of the DF21 - this is likely a user confirmatory test by the PA using shaheen made in pak based factory, as there is no need for any R&D test with readymade maal.

agree about AQ khan labs being in terminal decline.

shaheen comes packaged neatly atop a belarus MAZ tel design which PRC obtained.

mody · Post by **mody** » 25 Apr 2012 13:20

I was under the impression that Shaheen - 1 was based on M11 and M9 and shaheen - II is DF-21.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 25 Apr 2012 13:49

They are trying to follow the Yindu actions WRT, the Agoni series.

PS, where did the mijjile come from that they could test it just like that. Hain ji.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Apr 2012 13:53

Quote clarified

Austin wrote:link

The missile was marked into the Indian ocean and was targeted successfully at its location, said Inter services public relations (ISPR) sources.

Retired General Talat Masood, a defence analyst, told media it would be able to hit targets up to 2,500 to 3,000 kilometres (1,550 to 1,850 miles) away.

Haft 4 is an improvised form of Shaheen 1 missile series in Pakistan and capable of nuclear system.

Altair · Post by **Altair** » 25 Apr 2012 14:46

Pratyush wrote:They are trying to follow the Yindu actions WRT, the Agoni series.

PS, where did the mijjile come from that they could test it just like that. Hain ji.

ignorant kaffir! mijjile is hidden in chaddi and mijjile needs legural paalish!

abhijitm · Post by **abhijitm** » 25 Apr 2012 15:42

Haha, wherever Shaheen crashed into the India Ocean was a pre-determined target.

Did any report unambigously state whether this was a new version test or user trial?

adityadange · Post by **adityadange** » 25 Apr 2012 15:52

http://dawn.com/2012/04/25/pakistan-suc ... c-missile/

ISLAMABAD: Pakistan on Wednesday successfully test-fired the Hatf IV (Shaheen 1A) missile which is a nuclear-capable intermediate-range surface-to-surface ballistic missile, DawnNews reported.

“Pakistan today successfully conducted the launch of the intermediate range ballistic missile Hatf IV Shaheen-1A weapon system,” ISPR said in a statement.

According to a statement issued by the ISPR, the ‘Shaheen 1A’ missile is an upgraded version of the ‘Shaheen 1’ with a longer range.

Shaheen 1 is estimated to have a payload capacity of 1,000 kilograms and a range of 750 kilometres. The exact range of the missile was not revealed, but retired General Talat Masood, a defence analyst, told AFP intermediate range ballistic missiles could reach targets up to 2,500 to 3,000 kilometres away, which would put almost all of India within reach.

The test missile’s impact point was in the Indian Ocean.

The ISPR statement further added that Director General Strategic Plans Division Lieutenant General Khalid Ahmed Kidwai was also present at the test site.

Lieutenant General Kidwai congratulated scientists and engineers on the successful launch, and the accuracy of the missile in reaching the target and said that the improved version of Shaheen 1A would further consolidate and strengthen Pakistan’s deterrence abilities.

Pakistan’s arsenal includes short, medium and long range missiles named after Muslim conquerors.

Pakistan’s most recent missile test came last month with the launch of the short-range nuclear-capable Abdali, while in April 2008 it tested the Shaheen II, or Hatf VI, missile with a range of 2,000 kilometres.

President Asif Ali Zardari and Prime Minister Yousuf Raza Gilani congratulated the scientists working on the program over the success of the missile test.

The launch comes days after India announced that it had successfully test-launched a new nuclear-capable, long-range missile. The Agni-V has a range of 5,000 kilometres.

India’s missile test last week brought a muted international response, with China downplaying its significance, insisting the countries were partners not rivals, and Washington calling for “restraint” among nuclear powers.

This was in sharp contrast to the widespread fury and condemnation that greeted North Korea’s unsuccessful test launch of a long-range rocket on April 13.

poor newspaper has published babur's image with this news.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 25 Apr 2012 16:32

abhijitm wrote:Haha, wherever Shaheen crashed into the India Ocean was a pre-determined target.

Nope you are dead wrong here.

The Indian Ocean itself was the pre-determined target hence 0m CEP was achieved.

kittoo · Post by **kittoo** » 25 Apr 2012 16:47

merlin wrote:
abhijitm wrote:Haha, wherever Shaheen crashed into the India Ocean was a pre-determined target.
Nope you are dead wrong here.

The Indian Ocean itself was the pre-determined target hence 0m CEP was achieved.

LOL hahaha I am dying here.

ParGha · Post by **ParGha** » 25 Apr 2012 17:05

Misraji wrote:Can never really understand these guys. They already had missiles that could target India. What good can come off this test? After episodes such as Xerox-Khan, Osama-Bin-Laden, PNS Mehran Attacks, Mumbai Attack, now they want to prove that they can target half of the world? --Ashish

Lot of good can come out of it: long range Pakistani missiles = good, more Pakistani warheads = bad.

This is my humble correction to the received wisdom of BRF (i.e. let Pakistan "internationalize" itself).

Kanson · Post by **Kanson** » 25 Apr 2012 17:20

>>put it in the Saudi Arabian desert

1. Saudi's are changing.
2. If things come to such level, India can always took the cooperation of Israel and like minded countries.
3. Even if we are not interested, Israel won't sit idle.

rajanb · Post by **rajanb** » 25 Apr 2012 17:48

After Agni V, DRDO gets into Agni IV's 2nd trial

Besides Agni IV, in the month of May, Agni I & II are going to have user trials in sequel. The latter, being more Paki specific, it is going to be interesting to see how the Porkis react and do.

To match us in the realm of missile tests, while good for keeping their pants up, will bleed them financially. Unless the tests are in collaboration with the Chinis, who could transfer their testing in Porkistan.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 25 Apr 2012 19:58

PNS Azmat:

Class and type: Fast attack craft
Displacement: 560 tons
Length: 206 ft 7 in (63 m)
Beam: 28 ft 9 in (8.8 m)
Complement: 12-14 sailors
Armament: C-802 anti-ship missile

Folks pls excuse me for posting another comparison with IN. This class fits somewhere between Car Nicobar class WJFAC (325 tons) and Kora Class (1350 tons). Equivalent to Veer class (450 tons).

tsarkar and other gurus, what is the mission for this ship?

keshavchandra · Post by **keshavchandra** » 25 Apr 2012 23:30

Foreign plane forced to land in Pakistan

The Pakistan Air Force Wednesday forced a Russian-made cargo plane belonging to a foreign military to land at the Karachi airport after it violated Pakistani airspace, media reports said.

Geo News, however, did not mention the name of the country to which the plane belonged.

The cargo plane took off from the Bagram air base in Afghanistan and was supposed to fly to the Al Maktoum international airport in the United Arab Emirates.

Sources said such kind of cargo planes are used to carry NATO supplies to Afghanistan.

The plane was checked and the crew interrogated.

According to Xinhua, authorities received information that it was carrying military equipment without clearance from Pakistan’s civil aviation department.

May someone do some R&D on the country of origin of this cargo?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 26 Apr 2012 02:28

Austin wrote:link

The missile was marked into the Indian ocean and was targeted successfully at its location, said Inter services public relations (ISPR) sources.

Retired General Talat Masood, a defence analyst, told media it would be able to hit targets up to 2,500 to 3,000 kilometres (1,550 to 1,850 miles) away.

Haft 4 is an improvised form of Shaheen 1 missile series in Pakistan and capable of nuclear system.

Please keep in mind that this is a country which considers Zaid Hamid a defense analyst, although Talat Maosod may not be exactly in his class. In any case, this is not an official figure.

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 Apr 2012 08:14

Austin wrote:link

The missile was marked into the Indian ocean and was targeted successfully at its location, said Inter services public relations (ISPR) sources.

Retired General Talat Masood, a defence analyst, told media it would be able to hit targets up to 2,500 to 3,000 kilometres (1,550 to 1,850 miles) away.

Haft 4 is an improvised form of Shaheen 1 missile series in Pakistan and capable of nuclear system.

Austin wrote:From what i have read it is Shaheen 2 that has a range of 2500 km , Shaheen-1 is around 800 Km and an M-9 clone , me thinks the 1A series is an upgrade with some modification but not with very long range but we will see.

Seems the Islamic Republic of Pakistan is trying to do a Type 21 Amazon Class type fudge. In Royal. Navy service owing to it having a displacement significantly under 5000 Tons the vessel was correctly classed as a Frigate but yet in Pakistani service as the Tariq class it was promoted to a classification of Destroyer.

Going by the ISPR photo handout of the Shaheen 1A visually there is nothing like the addition of a second stage to suggest that 650 km ranged missile per ISPR May 10, 2010 press release (Clicky) has been upped to a 2500 - 3000 km range which retired Pakistani General Talat Masood has indicated is the bottom end of an IRBM range classification. It may also be noted that that the 2 staged Shaheen II has a claimed range of 2000 km per the ISPR press release of April 19, 2008 (Clicky)

Looks like this is a PR exercise aimed at Mango Abdul’s of the Islamic Republic of Pakistan to do an equal=equal with India and claim an IRBM capability where none exists.

Meanwhile the ISPR press release with a photo of what is claimed to be the Shaheen 1A:

ISPR

arun · Post by **arun** » 26 Apr 2012 08:26

Aditya G wrote:PNS Azmat:

Class and type: Fast attack craft
Displacement: 560 tons
Length: 206 ft 7 in (63 m)
Beam: 28 ft 9 in (8.8 m)
Complement: 12-14 sailors
Armament: C-802 anti-ship missile

,,,,,,,, Image snipped...........

Folks pls excuse me for posting another comparison with IN. This class fits somewhere between Car Nicobar class WJFAC (325 tons) and Kora Class (1350 tons). Equivalent to Veer class (450 tons).

tsarkar and other gurus, what is the mission for this ship?

BR lists the INS Pralaya also at 560 Tons full load displacement.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 26 Apr 2012 08:35

arun wrote: Meanwhile the ISPR press release with a photo of what is claimed to be the Shaheen 1A:

ISPR

Folks excuse my ignorance. When I look at pics of US, Russian and Chinese IRBMs/ICBMs I can see a distinct ring or two mid-body that appear like inter-stage rings to my untrained eye. I see no such rings on the Shaheen pic above

They could at least paint on rings no? Or is Pakistani take-knowleji seamless?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Apr 2012 08:54

their 2nd stage seems to be the conical stage below the red warhead section.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 26 Apr 2012 10:38

shiv wrote:When I look at pics of US, Russian and Chinese IRBMs/ICBMs I can see a distinct ring or two mid-body that appear like inter-stage rings to my untrained eye. I see no such rings on the Shaheen pic above. They could at least paint on rings no? Or is Pakistani take-knowleji seamless?

It is seamless like Agni-1. Hatf-IV aka Shaheen-1 aka DF-15 aka M-9 aka CSS-6 is a single stage missile capable of carrying 500 kg to 1000 km and 700 kg to 750 km. These missiles were transferred late 80's early 90's, so more than 20 years old unless re-lifed by the Chinese. These were to carry Chinese nukes to protect the existence of Pakistan in the event of exercises like Brasstacks became full fledged thrusts.

Did anyone notice Paki missile development stopped after NoKo Ghauri and Chinese M series? Now Chinese are scared of giving higher ranged missiles to Pakistan lest some zealot sympathetic to the Uyghur cause decided to launch them at at China.

Retired General Talat Masood, a defence analyst, told media it would be able to hit targets up to 2,500 to 3,000 kilometres (1,550 to 1,850 miles).

Pure fart, it simply doesnt carry that amount of propellant.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 26 Apr 2012 10:50

Aditya G wrote:PNS Azmat...Equivalent to Veer class (450 tons)...tsarkar and other gurus, what is the mission for this ship?

As you correctly mentioned, cheap equivalent to Veer class.

After the Karachi raid, Pakistanis purchased Chinese Osa missile boat copies with 2 missiles instead of 4. That class too was named Azmat and these boats are replacements.

No one should be fooled by the sloping sides, we dont know how much studies have been done behind those sloping sides.

1. Check the only sensor. Radar is a old one, while our newest boats carry Positiv PAR. It can designate but not guide.
2. Check the only gun. It is a ZSU-23-2 23 mm guns in a fancy housing. And unguided. Our boats have 76 mm main gun and two AK-630, in the latter boats guided by BEL Oerlikon TMX. Even our Patrol Boats have 30 mm guns guided by EO sights.
3. Missiles are Chinese Exocet copies with Harpoon components, both gifted by the Pakis.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Apr 2012 10:53

in other words, could be useful to sneak up and shell porbandar and kutch ports in hit and run raiding?

survivability if engaged by any IN asset is unlikely but it does back a bite in those ASMs...at close range in coastal waters say 30km apart those ASMs will work....

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 26 Apr 2012 11:27

Correct, cant take on a fleet unit, but great for sneak attacks.

IN WJFAC & ICG FPV with EO unit can track this baby at relatively longer ranges and the mix of 30 mm AP & I can easily riddle and disable this baby built to commercial standards. Later IN and ICG units have EO units, that can track heat of these small ships at high speed. Radar may lose these vessels in coastal clutter.