Su-30: News and Discussion

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Post Reply
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

I don't think MKI has towed decoys. I don't understand how MKI will fail against to lock EF first in WVR range, if the OLS 30 did work to satisfaction. There are lot of upgrades IAF will now ask now to match EF.
RamaY
BRF Oldie
Posts: 17249
Joined: 10 Aug 2006 21:11
Location: http://bharata-bhuti.blogspot.com/

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by RamaY »

indranilroy wrote:
Singha wrote:must be a EF handout. they missed the elephant in room - internal weapons bay for A2A and A2G weapons to preserve VLO.
Obvious :| . WHAT IS A 5TH GENERATION FIGHTER

It came out when US was trying to pitch in the F-35 into the MMRCA :-)
from this
KEY ATTRIBUTES 5TH GENERATION F-35/JSF
(AS DEFINED BY LM)
1 - VLO stealthiness (all aspect / multispectral) Low Observability only on front
aspect and with X-band radar
2 - Supercruise NO
3 - Supersonic performance focus NO
4 - Extreme agility NO
5 - High altitude ops (more than 50,000ft) NO
6 - Missile load-out for fighter performance NO
7 - Integrated sensor fusion YES
8 - Net enabled operations YES
Looks like JSF gets only 2.5/8 marks on being 5th gen.

The question is why would the world's most advanced MIC preferred a 4.3 gen JSF to F22 which is more 5th Gen? Mainly due to cost and operational maintenance concerns.

Then at least for next 10-15 years (the deployment and primary phase of JSF), the air-wars in the world will remain in 4x-gen fighters only.

That is the time India has to catch-up.
nakul
BRFite
Posts: 1251
Joined: 31 Aug 2011 10:39

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by nakul »

RamaY wrote:KEY ATTRIBUTES 5TH GENERATION F-35/JSF
(AS DEFINED BY LM)
1 - VLO stealthiness (all aspect / multispectral) Low Observability only on front
aspect and with X-band radar
2 - Supercruise NO
3 - Supersonic performance focus NO
4 - Extreme agility NO
5 - High altitude ops (more than 50,000ft) NO
6 - Missile load-out for fighter performance NO
7 - Integrated sensor fusion YES
8 - Net enabled operations YES
On this scale, Su 30 MKI will score 6/8 & Rafale 6/8. LCA would not be far behind either. The US seems to have decided that it is good enough for them since F 22 is available for back up.
vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1658
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by vasu raya »

Is there a replacement to the BARS radar that cen be added to the Su-30 for the upcoming Red Flag exercise making them more effective than the BARS in training mode

a) preferably a western radar that is already known to the Americans,
b) such a radar should be compatible with other planes as well, Tejas Mk2, Rafale etc which might be participating in future international exercises
c) export of Tejas Mk2 with such a radar :P
m mittal
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 93
Joined: 20 Sep 2008 12:08
Location: Timbuktu

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by m mittal »

Can anyone please inform: How many Su-30MKIs have been inducted in IAF?
Sid
BRFite
Posts: 1657
Joined: 19 Mar 2006 13:26

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Sid »

vasu raya wrote:Is there a replacement to the BARS radar that cen be added to the Su-30 for the upcoming Red Flag exercise making them more effective than the BARS in training mode

a) preferably a western radar that is already known to the Americans,
b) such a radar should be compatible with other planes as well, Tejas Mk2, Rafale etc which might be participating in future international exercises
c) export of Tejas Mk2 with such a radar :P
IRBIS E radar, flying on Su 35.

Earlier it was quoted on Vayu-sena website that this radar might be part of Su30 MKI phase IV iteration.
Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Viv S »

RamaY wrote:Looks like JSF gets only 2.5/8 marks on being 5th gen.
The 8 parameters haven't been weighted for importance so a score is effectively meaningless. You could, for example, keep adding things like FADEC, HOTAS, IRCM, FBW, glass cockpit, HUD to the list, all the way down to VHF radios and afterburners, at the end of which all aircraft will have near identical scores.

The question is why would the world's most advanced MIC preferred a 4.3 gen JSF to F22 which is more 5th Gen? Mainly due to cost and operational maintenance concerns.
They hoped to recreate the Fighter Mafia's LWF program that resulted in what is arguably the most successful multirole fighter aircraft of all time. And even if it lacks the supersonic performance of the F-15/EF/F-22, its still far from '4.3 gen'.

Then at least for next 10-15 years (the deployment and primary phase of JSF), the air-wars in the world will remain in 4x-gen fighters only.

That is the time India has to catch-up.
The F-35 is irrelevant as far as India is concerned, expect maybe as one of the possible aircraft based on the IAC-2. Our focus needs to be on the PLAAF, the J-19/20 and assorted airborne and ground based systems.
Last edited by Viv S on 26 Sep 2012 13:07, edited 3 times in total.
Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Viv S »

nakul wrote:The problem with Khan is usually keeps the good stuff for itself. Other countries cannot cutomize an F35 like the FGFA is to the PAK FA. So for an export customer, he has to either be happy with a black box (F 35) or rely on lesser ones like Rafale or EF with more freedom.
Partly true. Israel will be modifying its F-35s with 'add-on' EW equipment. But in general, political and financial considerations aside, given that the F-35's subsystems are already top-of-the-line, there is little technical incentive behind requirements for customization. In addition, there is also a degree of security inherent in the arrangement, wherein only one country rather than 12 possess the critical codes, which if leaked or released could jeopardize an entire war effort. Of course the US' motivations behind it are related primarily to its own future wars.

What the Su 30 MKI vs F 15 showed was that Khan overstates its abilities & the humongous 15:0 kill ratios that F22 vs F15 curiously disappeares when Rafale or EF showed up. Over the years, I have learnt to take khan desxcriptors with iodine namak in large quantities.
Apples and oranges. AFAIK the F-22 has rarely engaged in BVR DACT with foreign air forces, and every instance I can recall of has resulted in a resounding victory for the stealth fighter. The EF and Rafale exercises that you are referring to were WVR, where too the F-22 holds an advantage, but one that is considerably lessened.

Anything result is possible in a dogfight and the larger the furball, tougher the odds for any aircraft involved regardless of its design advantages. As a matter of fact, even the Indian Navy's Sea Harrier dominated French Navy's Rafale-Ms at WVR combat (though to be fair, there was a big gap in experience as the Rafales had just been inducted at the time). In any case, the F-22 will willingly engage in a dogfight only in the most exigent of circumstances.
Viv S
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5303
Joined: 03 Jan 2010 00:46

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Viv S »

SaiK wrote:I don't think MKI has towed decoys. I don't understand how MKI will fail against to lock EF first in WVR range, if the OLS 30 did work to satisfaction. There are lot of upgrades IAF will now ask now to match EF.
The IRST systems, with the exception of the F-35's DAS, are designed for operate in the frontal sector, primarily at the BVR and near BVR ranges. At WVR combat, I'd imagine the EF would have the edge but due to other factors not involving the OLS 30 or the PIRATE.

The Su-30MKI features TVC and is based on a platform designed for superlative high AoA performance (i.e. Su-27). Unfortunately, its TWR is relatively low and its massive size makes it easy to visually acquire. Also, while the IRIS-T and ASRAAM may be, broadly speaking, comparable if not superior to the R-73, the EF's Striker helmet is certainly a generation ahead of the MKI's TopSight-I.
member_20453
BRFite
Posts: 613
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by member_20453 »

The F-35 has an edge in eletronics which will be hard to match for many many years. Being able to pick up multiple rocket launches at ranges over 1200km (which allows us to geo-locate those hard to find launch sites all across Pak in a single glance), sharing this info in real time for long range strikes using Prahaar, Shaurya, Smerch, Brahmos, Pinaka, Nirbhay etc. I think the ability to visually spot enemies at very logn ranges using DAS is pretty useful.

It certainly isn't steller in terms of ability to carry a lot of AAMs. But block 6 around 2019 will have thrust and range upgrades. Also the radar is pretty good with possibly the most extensive threat library ever coded which allows the pilot to ID each target by type, the resolution should be execellent.

F-35 IMO is a great aircraft for gathering intel, keep a close eye on battlefield.

http://www.afa.org/professionaldevelopm ... arison.pdf

It will be able to deploy Aim-120D, SDBs, Paveways, JSOW, CBUs and JDAMs internally makes it one heck of ground pounder JSOWs and CBUs can carry the BLU warhead that can wreck havoc on enemy ground forces.

With 4 aim-120D internally, it whould be able to detect aircraft from long range, fire and scoot without being spotted. Not to mention it would have a EW capability that should cloaks it's arrival neatly. Furthermore even carrying weapons externally, it will still remain far stealthier than lets say EF, Rafale, PAKFA in a similar config.

Weapons like JDAM-ER, CBUs with WCMD, SDB, it can deploy them at stand off ranges avoid AA gun and SAM concentrations and still punch devasting holes in the enemy's air defences.

I think we should certainly consider acquiring around 6 squadrons (2 F-35A for AF, 2 f-35B for IA and 2 F-35C for IN) of these in various configs in the future. All 3 versions are attractive and would be a great addition to keep a close eye on Paki and Chinese missile movements during combat. We could do this during early 2020 in time for IAC-2 and hopefully by then the Indo-US relationship is mature enough to have some level of local manufacture and customization using local and Israeli goodies

Biggest threat we face from China and Pak are their missile batteries and F-35 might just be the master in picking these up and directing counter fire. Without even crossing our border, staying well with-in our airspace, we can monitor rocket and missile activity all across Pak.

http://www.google.be/imgres?q=f-35+bloc ... 6,s:0,i:89

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IZrvAFRhQZc
nakul
BRFite
Posts: 1251
Joined: 31 Aug 2011 10:39

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by nakul »

We have already bought the Rafale. If I am not wrong, it is compatible with US weapons as well. On the other hand, this cannot be said of US planes when talking about compatibility of munitions from other countries.

The US launched satellites in the 60s to detect nuclear explosions & detect ICBM launches. It seems the F 35 has ported that technology to an airframe. We should continue to improve on our BMD technologies while inducting new techs like this

JLENS – Joint Land Attack Cruise Missile Defense Elevated Netted Sensor System (PDF)

This will also take care of the aeroplane limitations that cannot operate 24 x 7. The DRDO is going to work on these technologies once the BMD development is complete (~2014-15). It is very useful as an AEW & cruise missile defence system.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

Good points there Viv S. I think MKI can be upgraded to match EF.
member_20453
BRFite
Posts: 613
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by member_20453 »

[quote="nakul"]We have already bought the Rafale. If I am not wrong, it is compatible with US weapons as well. On the other hand, this cannot be said of US planes when talking about compatibility of munitions from other countries.

The US launched satellites in the 60s to detect nuclear explosions & detect ICBM launches. It seems the F 35 has ported that technology to an airframe. We should continue to improve on our BMD technologies while inducting new techs like this
quote]


Offcourse munitions from other countries are deployed for a long time on US fighters, F-15/16/18 all have Israeli, EU weapons integrated on them.

There is no reason why F-35 won't have EU/ Israeli weapons, Stormshadow, Meteor, Asraam, Python-5, Derby and more will find their way onto the F-35.
mody
BRFite
Posts: 1362
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Mumbai, India

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by mody »

The Su-30 can be and will be upgraded with systems being developed for the FGFA aircraft and also the LCA-MKII.

The main systems will be an AESA radar, either the radar being developed for the FGFA or a larger derivative of the indigenous AESA that DRDO is developing for LCA-MKII. Also the EW suite and other avionics will also be upgraded post 2015/16 once they readied for the FGFA/LCA MK-II aircrafts. The biggest constraint will be a more powerful engine. The new engine for FGFA will not be ready for sometime and may not be compatible. The only other option would be the engine currently being used for the latest Su-35 BMs.

Perhaps we should consider this engine upgrade immediately for all the balance aircraft's that are remaining or atleast the last batch of 40 aircraft's that we had ordered.
I guess the main isssue would be that we are manufacturing the current engine completely in house now, and the russians will not offer the complete tech and know how to build the Su-35 engine in India, without extracting a very heavy price.
vishvak
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5836
Joined: 12 Aug 2011 21:19

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by vishvak »

Dennis
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 58
Joined: 28 May 2009 19:43

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Dennis »

This is strange. Isnt 220 the eighth sq already?
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9102
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by nachiket »

There was some discussion here earlier about one MKI squadron (31?) having moved to Halwara. These new articles seem to suggest that the 220 will be the first MKI squadron at Halwara. Strange.

Edit: I guess I'm just mistaken. It must have been Jodhpur earlier.
Last edited by nachiket on 26 Sep 2012 23:34, edited 1 time in total.
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9102
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by nachiket »

m mittal wrote:Can anyone please inform: How many Su-30MKIs have been inducted in IAF?
Seven operational squadrons + eighth being raised, if the articles are to be believed. So somewhere around 140-150 aircraft would be my guess.
vasu raya
BRFite
Posts: 1658
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by vasu raya »

Sid wrote:IRBIS E radar, flying on Su 35.

Earlier it was quoted on Vayu-sena website that this radar might be part of Su30 MKI phase IV iteration.
Sidji, The IRBIS E radar for MKI is for operational roles, we are looking for one useful in secondary roles such as friendly exercises, training and export, I think the EL/M-2032 radar may be ideal since the Tejas Mk1 is being capped at low nos and the Mk2 will get an AESA

it may even fit in Rafale's nose not to mention the MKI
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

someone was claiming to power the irbis-E needs the more powerful engines of Su35BM, but I could be mistaken. maybe the bars being older tech consumes more power than irbis-E.
mody
BRFite
Posts: 1362
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Mumbai, India

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by mody »

The IRBIS-E upgrade option has always been spoken of in conjunction with the engine upgrade. It could very well be possible that to upgrade to IRBIS-E the new engines from the Su-35BM would be required.

However, I would rather like to see the AESA being developed for the FGFA or a larger derivative of the LCA-MKII AESA being used to upgrade the Su-30. Sure these radars will be availbale only post 2015, but I guess till then the BARS can very hold its own, against anything that the panda or the pig can throw at it.

Upgrade of the engine would pose a bigger problem in my opinion then the upgrade of the radar and some of the avionics.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

imo a EDE for the engine is best bet. no point wasting fuel on a EPE version unless performance is perceived as lacking now.

astra, son-of-r77, son-of-r73, sudarshan, micro-brahmos would all five be good to have.

OLS50 and spherical MAWS from pakfa perhaps.
Zynda
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2309
Joined: 07 Jan 2006 00:37
Location: J4

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Zynda »

Austin had posted a while back in this thread about Saturn offering AL-31FM2 engine as an upgrade for existing fleet of Su-27/30/34 platforms. I think the output of engine is increased by 2T in afterburning mode along with increase in fuel efficiency.

This upgrade does not require any changes to the size of air intake inlet. Something to consider...would probably help in providing good TWR when carrying heavy AG ordinance like Brahmos or Nirbhay.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

we could try it out on the new lot super-30 MKIs. or maybe we already have asked for it.
nakul
BRFite
Posts: 1251
Joined: 31 Aug 2011 10:39

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by nakul »

Does anyone know whether we are getting AESA on the super 30 upgrade? The last time I remember reading a Russian official addressing the issue by saying that they would, if IAF asked for it. If the AESA is better than the current PESA on the MKI, I don't see IAF not asking for it.
Kapil
Webmaster BR
Posts: 282
Joined: 16 Jun 2001 11:31

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Kapil »

Today is the 10th anniversary of the induction of the Su-30 MKI into the IAF.
The first unit to operate the type, 20 Sqn Lightnings , is now the Operational Conversion Unit of the Fleet where newly minted pilots go to fly and fight the Su 30 MKI.
I still recall seeing the Su-30 MKI prototype being demoed by Vyachaslev Averyanov at Aero India 2001 and wondering when will it turn up in IAF Markings.
It did,with a boom, on Sep 27,2002 at Lohegaon,Pune. All the pilots were from different backgrounds,pipelined through the Su30 Ks of 24 Sqn which was the co-;located unit.

It's been an incredible journey and congratulations,compliments and thanks are due to all the people involved.
From visionary IAF officers who grabbed this when it was offered by the Russians.To the Techies and the aircrews who designed it to be what they wished for.To third nation vendors who collabrated on this.
To maligned Babus,politicians,DPSUs who pulled together when needed.
To the ground crews who kept the aircraft superbly maintained in deployments to France,UK,Continental US and other countries en route.

The magnificient men who fly them to the edge and beyond.

Let this be the template for future inductions of high tech multi-national origin platforms.It can and will be bettered.

It has been a long incredible,painful and at at the same time an exhilarating trip for the IAF.

Some squadrons converted, some got re-raised.
Lightnings, Rhinos , Hunting Hawks , Pursoots , Lions , Trisonics , Winged Arrows and now Desert Tigers.

You have come a long way Baby!
8)
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5721
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Kartik »

However, the IAF is far from its target to operate 17 Sukhoi squadrons by 2018, when it would have inducted 272 aircraft, making it the main combat plane for the next decade or so.
There is a mistake in the article. At 270 Su-30MKIs, the IAF will be able to raise 15 squadrons at 18 a/c each and not 18 squadrons as the article mentions.

But further, taking into account reserves for each squadron, the numbers per squadron may be 20 a/c. That would mean 13 squadrons with the remaining 10 being additional reserves and used for TACDE (since they won't have their MiG-27s and MiG-21s for too long either) and for additional development testing at ASTE perhaps. That would mean another 5 squadrons remain to be re-equipped or re-raised with the Su-30MKI. So, the situation is not as dire as the article makes it out to be.
nachiket
Forum Moderator
Posts: 9102
Joined: 02 Dec 2008 10:49

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by nachiket »

Kartik wrote: There is a mistake in the article. At 270 Su-30MKIs, the IAF will be able to raise 15 squadrons at 18 a/c each and not 18 squadrons as the article mentions.

But further, taking into account reserves for each squadron, the numbers per squadron may be 20 a/c. That would mean 13 squadrons with the remaining 10 being additional reserves and used for TACDE (since they won't have their MiG-27s and MiG-21s for too long either) and for additional development testing at ASTE perhaps.
You are right. The IAF hasn't ordered enough aircraft to fill 17 squadrons. The author of that article probably considered 16 (instead of 18) aircraft per squadron and multiplied by 17 to get 272. He did not consider squadron reserves or TACDE or the fact that 2 of those 272 were replacements for aircraft which crashed. Add the third one that went down later and the total number comes to 269.
That would mean another 5 squadrons remain to be re-equipped or re-raised with the Su-30MKI. So, the situation is not as dire as the article makes it out to be.
6 not 5. Raising the eighth squadron has just started and it will be a while before it is at full strength. The good news is this means that 102sq is probably at full strength now at Chabua. Definitely a shot in the arm for the EAC especially combined with 2sq at Tezpur.
nakul
BRFite
Posts: 1251
Joined: 31 Aug 2011 10:39

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by nakul »

I believe that it is 18 per squadron including trainers. The numbers to be inducted for aircrafts such as Su 30 MKI (270), Rafale (126), & FGFA (234) happen to be multiples of 18. It is too much of a coincidence.
nakul
BRFite
Posts: 1251
Joined: 31 Aug 2011 10:39

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by nakul »

Old article in French about the Su30 MKI with plenty of details regarding its components, maneuvrability, and political implications

Su-30MKI: Indian approach to air combat
The provision of a relatively large number of Su-30MKI to India provides significant strike capabilities whose political significance should not be underestimated. The literature and flight status 10 hours conducted from the base of Pune and causing the aircraft over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and so almost routine. The revelation of the nuclear capability of the devices was also seen as a source of tension between Islamabad and Delhi. Finally, commitments against Indian Air Force and Republic of Singapore Air Force (10 F-16 Singapore "killed" for no Indian aircraft lost) have been widely used by some (Indian Air Force) as well as by other (U.S. Air Force and developers of F-35 as the F-22). The fact that the State presented yet there are less than 10 years as "developing" in many geography textbooks and other works of political science, can trounce two of the best air forces in the world was perceived signing as the emergence of a new regional superpower.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by ramana »

Nakul, Is there a full translation?
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

I think IAF can wait for our AESA version with AlGaN technology, for 10 times reduced power consumption.. we have always been and our sdre culture always has been to skip a generation, and go for the more stable one that lasts a bit more than intermediary technologies. I very strongly think that GaAs t/rs are just the first gen of AESA radars. I think we should go for the even generation of radars, especially start with AlGaN, where the benefits out weighs cost.

GaNs is a double edged sword.. with high bandwidth use, can go for higher bandwidth or low to L band (Wider band) where, it would quite useful against 4++ gen a/cs like Rafale/EF2K and 50% of Raptor and JSF signatures. It consumes 10times less power than the existing GaAs walas - EL2052M/IrbisAESA/APG79/RBEASA.
member_23858
BRFite
Posts: 137
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by member_23858 »

ramana wrote:Nakul, Is there a full translation?
here you go saar...

Su-30MKI: the Indian approach of air combat
By Philippe Langloit, research CAPRI (article published in Technology & Armament, No. 6, June-July 2007 - no reproduction without prior permission from the editor)

The impressive results against the Indian units of the U.S. Air Force in 2004 and 2005 (to qualify because of a limitation on trading in dogfight) are due to the combination of a technically efficient aircraft and avionics pushed a " strategy the best of both worlds "

Dynamic characteristics

Begun in 1994, the evaluation of several hunters in India in 1996 will result in the selection of very special version of the Su-30 Flanker-C, Delhi to receive a total of 230 Su-30MKI assigned missions superiority air and attack. If the first command occurred in 1996 (she wore on Su-30MK), the last of 40 aircraft, just back to February 2007. If some devices will be built under license in India, it is also clear that, through this, the Indian aviation industry is able to acquire skills that will be useful in the development of a Tejas (ex-LCA) knowing some delay.

Generating legitimate pride in the Indian Air Force, the structure of the Su-30MKI (MKI for Modernizirovannyi kommercheskiy Indiski - modernized, commercial, India) is not fundamentally different from that of the Su-30, if not the adding two canards to improve maneuverability. The latter is particularly important that the engine uses two AL-31FP Luylka 12.5 tons of thrust each (with PC), nozzles are equipped with a TVC that, once activated, greatly increases the rate roll of the apparatus (the nozzles having a displacement of 15 ° on the vertical plane). It is estimated that 920 of these engines with a design life of 1000 hours will be produced under license by HAL. Ultimately to altitude and optimal configuration, the device reached Mach 2. According to sources, the Indian aircraft could eventually receive two AL-37FP Luylka, the greater thrust.

Innervating its orders, Fly By Wire system is quadruple redundant and includes electro-hydraulic actuators. The system is also able to compensate for the driver too violent reactions, uphill for example, which may exceed the structural strength of the unit. Many features that make the device exceptionally MKI maneuvering that exploited Indian pilots perfectly. Their training involves and the "Cobra Pugatchev," as well as figures for the device extremely restrictive as to its operators.

If the Su-30 MKI is designed to maximize maneuverability in low or high speed - making it an excellent device dogfight - his attack missions impose a range of important. It thus has an autonomy of 4.5 hours on internal fuel and is also refueled in flight. With its use, the Indians are conducting missions over 10 hours, orders for optimized individual rations for pilots having also been made. To this end, the cockpit has storage lockers for the benefit of reserve food, water and oxygen, and KD-36M ejection seat inclined.

Avionics careful

Such missions requiring a navigation system performance, India has chosen to equip its aircraft with a navigation system A-737 GPS compatible SAGEM DS has provided a laser gyroscope for inertial navigation, as the GPS . With an autopilot, the aircraft was equipped with a cockpit particularly well, including a HUD Elta Su967 and 7 multifunction color displays. The rear screen, 152 x 152 mm, is used by the WSO (Weapon System Officer) for the control of guided munitions TV and IR.

The main sensor of the Su-30MKI's PESA radar (Passive Electronically Scanned Array) NIIP N011M Bars, a mass of 100 kg and with an antenna by 1 m in diameter and requiring a new design of the nose of the aircraft compared to previous versions. Able to operate simultaneously in air-to-air, anti-ship and air-to-ground. In the latter case, the radar provides mapping, and has functions as SAR detecting moving targets. The bars in a maximum range of 350 km and 200 km search mode tracking mode. According to Indian sources, a Mig-21 could thus be detected more than 125 km (one has mentioned the case of a Su-27 detected 330 km). In the air-surface applications, battle tanks could be detected at 40 km. The radar can track 15 aircraft simultaneously and allow to engage 8 targets, including (if the camera is close enough) cruise missiles. The radar is also coupled to a data link to transmit the information collected to a maximum of 4 devices have friends and ECCM systems annexes.

Eventually, the replacement of Bars by EASA was mentioned several times by Irbis. Coupled with new computers and software, it has a broader scope and is able to track targets in a 3 sqm RCS large distance. It would also be able to carry 30 targets and engage in 8. The radar is also compatible with the use of the Novator KS-172 air-air missile long range about which discussions took place between Russia and India in 2004, but they do not lead a formal agreement. With an estimated range of 300/400 km and a speed of M. 4, KS-172 was discussed, in addition to air-strikes BVR, under anti-AWACS missions or ASAT.

Second sensor importance for Su-30MKI, the OLS-27 IRST system provides the pilot and WSO capacity FLIR day and night which can be used in conjunction with the helmet sighting system. The system can detect targets at 50 km pursuit. The system also includes a laser rangefinder, used in air-to-air engagements and air-ground. The unit can also be equipped with the Litening pod designation including a FLIR, a TV camera, a laser spot detection and a laser designator.

The Su-30MKI has cons-electronic measurements including RWR (Radar Warning Receiver) designed and produced in India by DRDO, the Tarang. Capable of giving the direction of a radar transmitter (via the DARE system, also designed and produced in India), it is linked with a library of signatures. The Tarang is itself coupled to an Elta EL/M-8222 jammers. It is installed in a pod and includes an ESM. The device is of course with flares and radar. In addition, the device is equipped with communication systems including frequency hopping radios and IFF, also developed by DRDO of India. Must add a diagnostic system (HUMS - Health and Usage Monitoring System). The avionics architecture is designed to "open source" and is managed by a multiplex bus MIL-STD-1553B.

Powerful military capabilities

Powerful device, the Su-30MKI has a cannon GSh-301-pipe 30 mm (rate from 1 500 to 1800 strokes / min) supplied with 150 strokes. It has in excess of 12 hardpoints for external loads up to 8 tons with a variety of short-AAM (R-60MK/AA-8 Aphid and Archer R-73MDM2/AA-11), medium (R / Alamo 27R1AA-10 and C-1 D TE) and long-range (R-77RVV-AE/AA-12 Adder) of air-to-surface (Kh-29T AS-14B guided by guided laser TV and Kh-29L-AS 14C Kedge; Kh-59/AS-13 Kingbolt and Kh-59M/AS-18 Kazoo, thus requiring the carriage of a data link pod APK-9) anti-ship missiles (Kh-31A/AS-17 Krypton) missile antiradars (KH-25MP/AS-12 and Kegler Kh-31P AS-17 Krypton) or a tactical nuclear weapon.

The unit can also carry bombs or laser guided KAB-500 TV (maximum 6) and KAB-1500 (maximum 3), cluster bombs RBK-500 (maximum 8), up to 28 free fall bombs OFAB-250 / 270 or 8 bombs FAB-500T free fall. Up to 4 rocket pods can also be used. Eventually, the devices should be able to get the Indian missile BrahMos, developed in cooperation with Russia (SS-N-26). Currently entering into the category of ASCM (Anti-Ship Cruise Missile), the machine sees its continued development, particularly in the area of ​​hitting Earth (1). Up to 3 missiles could equip Su-30MKI, at least if the design offices are able to reduce their weight. Knowing that the radar can detect Bars tall buildings at a distance of 400 km and 120 km small buildings, the scope of BrahMos (290 km) will be fully exploited.

A political instrument leading

The provision of a relatively large number of Su-30MKI to India provides significant strike capabilities whose political significance should not be underestimated. The literature and flight status 10 hours conducted from the base of Pune and causing the aircraft over the Andaman and Nicobar Islands and so almost routine. The revelation of the nuclear capability of the devices was also seen as a source of tension between Islamabad and Delhi. Finally, commitments against Indian Air Force and Republic of Singapore Air Force (10 F-16 Singapore "killed" for no Indian aircraft lost) have been widely used by some (Indian Air Force) as well as by other (U.S. Air Force and developers of F-35 as the F-22). The fact that the State presented yet there are less than 10 years as "developing" in many geography textbooks and other works of political science, can trounce two of the best air forces in the world was perceived signing as the emergence of a new regional superpower.

In this regard, while more than 50 aircraft have already been received (the entire fleet to be delivered to 2017), it is clear that the device has also been transformed into vector expertise in Indian aviation . This policy had its risks. While the last combat aircraft designed in India was the HF-24 Marut (first flight in 1961 and withdrawn from service in 1985), the development of the Tejas has been delayed somewhat. Similarly, the licensed construction of 140 Su-30MKI has been called into question, the IAF finally felt that this type of process would double the cost of the device. Finally, the question of the production equipment is not completely resolved, but it is a fact that the contracts will be brought to an end. The IAF then have a fighting particularly chilling, whose power will be multiplied when the first of three Phalcon, AEW aircraft, will arrive. At that time, India will have probably not only one of the devices most likely in the world to conduct a dogfight, but will also be able to conduct air interdiction plans in the depth of enemy territory in making minimal use of his radar.

Box: The Su-30MKI Quick
Crew: One pilot, Weapon System Officer (WSO).
Performances: Maximum speed: Mach 2; ceiling: 18,000 m range combat, low altitude: 1300 km; rate rise (combat): 230 m / sec, maximum rate of climb (clean configuration): 303 m / sec, power / weight ratio: 0.77, maximum load factor: 9 G; takeoff run at normal load: 550 m, landing run at normal load: 750 m.
Weight: empty weight: 17.7 t; MTOW: 34.5 t (38.5 t were mentioned but not confirmed) ailaire load: 556 kg / m².
Dimensions: Span: 14.7 m Length: 22.10 m Height: 6.38 m; ailaire area: 62.04 m².
Armament: GSh-301 cannon 30 mm supplied with 150 strokes; 12 pylons under the wings, able to receive a maximum load of 8 t. weapons including air-to-air AA-10, -11 and -12; air-ground missiles AS-14 and AS-18 missiles antiradars AS-12 and -17, the AS-17 anti-ship missiles, the guided bombs KAB family, bombs smooth pods of rockets, bombs and munitions, a nuclear weapon.
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

^is this article bit old?
nakul
BRFite
Posts: 1251
Joined: 31 Aug 2011 10:39

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by nakul »

SaiK wrote:^is this article bit old?
It is from June 2007
Austin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 23387
Joined: 23 Jul 2000 11:31

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

The contract for the supply to India 42 Su-30MKI aircraft will be signed in the coming days

The contract for the supply to India 42 Su-30MKI aircraft will be signed in the coming days
IRKUTSK, October 2. (ARMS-TASS). Corporation "Irkut" plans in the coming days to sign a contract for delivery of 42 Su-30MKI fighters for the Indian Air Force. Told reporters today CEO of the Irkutsk aviation plant (IAP, branch "Irkut"), which are issued combat vehicles, Alexander boar.

According to him, the process of agreeing a contract with the Ministry of Defence of India has now been completed. "The contract is already in the output. Pre can be said to supply 42 samoletokomplektov for three years", - said the boar.

The new batch of fighter jets will cost India about 3.4 billion dollars. Samoletokomplektov assembly will be carried out by Indian companies in 2014-2018 gg. To date, New Delhi purchased from Russia 230 Su-30MKI fighters for a total of $ 8.5 billion.

As expected, the Indian government will soon approve the equipment of the machine supersonic cruise missile "Brahmos" joint Russian-Indian origin who are already in service with the Indian Army and Navy, according to ITAR-TASS.
tushar_m

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by tushar_m »

the new su30 may be for SFC as dedicated nuclear delivery platform.................????
Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Shrinivasan »

Any Chaiwaala news on the # of Rambhas inducted...Eight complete SQs with a ninth on the way before end of year is indeed a large number!!! are the TACDE birds dedicated ones or on loan from one of the eight SQs? I heard from a Dhobi who heard it from his Paanwala that the eight SQs have approx 160 birds including reserves, trainers etc.
Shrinivasan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2196
Joined: 20 Aug 2009 19:20
Location: Gateway Arch
Contact:

Re: Su-30: News and Discussion

Post by Shrinivasan »

Austin wrote:The contract for the supply to India 42 Su-30MKI aircraft will be signed in the coming days
These birds are regular Rambhas or the Super Dooper Sundharis for our Detergents?
Post Reply