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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2012 09:54 
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Apparently Truck Mounted and Tracked (BMP) 105 mm SP howtizers from OFB are targetted @ BSF. Makes sense since they are operating 105 mm guns already.


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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2012 11:44 
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Grads saved the Lankan army's bacon too at one time in the Eelam War ,so an SL genenral told me.I like the Soviet idea of "wiping out the mountain".When ever I hear about 24 hr.,36 hr. firefight with Kashmiri infiltrators form Pak,holed up in some hideout,I cannot understand why we don't use attack helos or ATGMs,to demolish the hideout in swift time and prevent casualties from occuring on our side.Surely the troos on the ground have Carl Gustav's at least?


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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2012 17:22 
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was this posted??

Quote:
BAE Systems has said it is ready to provide assistance to India’s Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) in its endeavor to build artillery guns on the basis of the technology of the Bofors FH77 B02 howitzer, transferred to it as part of the aborted procurement in the 1980s. BAE Systems owns the howitzer unit of the erstwhile Swedish company.

Dean McCumiskey, Managing Director and Chief Executive of BAE Systems’ India operations told StratPost his company would be open to discussing any question of technical assistance the OFB might require, in its attempt to execute the designs and technology documentation transferred to it as part of the old Bofors howitzer purchase, cut short because of the infamous corruption scandal.


BAE Systems ready to help India build Bofors guns


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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2012 18:00 
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Quote:


$$$$$
They see dollar in this, should not happen, let local OFB build first.


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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2012 19:23 
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Philip wrote:
Grads saved the Lankan army's bacon too at one time in the Eelam War ,so an SL genenral told me.I like the Soviet idea of "wiping out the mountain".When ever I hear about 24 hr.,36 hr. firefight with Kashmiri infiltrators form Pak,holed up in some hideout,I cannot understand why we don't use attack helos or ATGMs,to demolish the hideout in swift time and prevent casualties from occuring on our side.Surely the troos on the ground have Carl Gustav's at least?


Excessive force? Psy ops potential for our birader's across the border?


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PostPosted: 07 Apr 2012 23:05 
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pragnya wrote:

I see this as a clever and good thing to get the desired gun from Bofors without making the Congress tickle.


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PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012 21:46 
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Philip wrote:
Grads saved the Lankan army's bacon too at one time in the Eelam War ,so an SL genenral told me.I like the Soviet idea of "wiping out the mountain".When ever I hear about 24 hr.,36 hr. firefight with Kashmiri infiltrators form Pak,holed up in some hideout,I cannot understand why we don't use attack helos or ATGMs,to demolish the hideout in swift time and prevent casualties from occuring on our side.Surely the troos on the ground have Carl Gustav's at least?



Thais are claiming they used a CAESAR successfully against Cambodian BM-21 systems.

Philip while you are positing a case of BM-21 usage when no retaliation is forseen, where no doubt a BM-21 will easily win the fight, you still need to consider that a BM-21 waiting 1 minute to put its weapon load on an area target (which could even be a bunch of decoys) may not be a good idea if the opponent has a trap set for it in the area.

Even in your Mountain Mujahid case an accurate artillery can be used quite effectively with the trees adding their own splinters in the hideout area. In fact even a low charge big shell firing should work well and be discreet enough.


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PostPosted: 08 Apr 2012 21:50 
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A nubie question on OFB, FH77B.

How has the 45 cal OFB gun been changed to handle the bigger barrel?

I want to understand if the OFB gun can be taken to the 52 cal also, or would the changes required by too much?


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PostPosted: 09 Apr 2012 20:23 
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Quote:
[/quote]
I see this as a clever and good thing to get the desired gun from Bofors without making the Congress tickle.[/quote]

BAE has a JV with Mahindra. Why cant Mahindra bid to make a gun? That way you will get Bofors tech as well as spare the govt the Bofors ghost :mrgreen:


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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2012 08:24 
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X-post:
sum wrote:
MoD plans to invest Rs 15k cr in ordnance firm

Quote:
Sending a strong signal to foreign arms suppliers often accused of adopting short cuts to bag lucrative military contracts, the Ministry of Defence (MoD) for the first time has invoked “integrity pact” to recover Rs 244 crore from Israel Military Industries (IMI) before blacklisting the company on corruption charges.

In 2007, the IMI emerged as the supplier of technology to produce bi modular charge system – a propellent required for ammunition – in India’s latest ordnance factory that was to come up at Nalanda at a cost of Rs 2,160 crore.

But, with allegations of corruption flying thick, the MoD on March 5 blacklisted IMI along with five other military firms.

Before blacklisting, the ministry invoked integrity pact to recover Rs 244 crore, clearly conveying to the arms lobby that “breach of contract terms” would not be tolerated, said an official. Almost six years ago, the defence ministry introduced integrity pact as an integral part of all defence deals worth Rs 100 crore and offset contracts worth more than Rs 300 crore. The aim was to remove any scope for foul play in high worth arms deals.

After reviewing the performance of ordnance factory board, Defence Minister A K Antony on Monday decided to pump in Rs 15,764 crore in the OFB over the next five years to upgrade its manufacturing and production capability.

Significantly, high investment in the OFB in the 12th Plan signals the government’s definitive shift towards self-reliance and gradually reducing dependence on foreign arms supplies.


Quote:
Some of the major OFB projects approved include a Rs 971-crore scheme to augment production capacity of T-90 tanks from the present 100 tanks to 140 tanks at Heavy Vehicles Factory at Avadi, Tamil Nadu; a Rs 378-crore project to produce large calibre artillery guns and a Rs 378-crore plan to manufacture spares for T-72 and T-90 tanks.

With no artillery purchase since the Bofors contract, the OFB claims to have developed long range artillery guns based on the original technology transfer agreement from Bofors.

The home-made guns are under trials and OFB plans to make 300 of them by 2015, sources said.

For the ammunition propellant, the defence ministry planned to set up a new ordnance factory at Nalanda as the proposal was in limbo for the last 11 years after the ministry blacklisted two foreign firms which were to transfer the crucial technology.

New outfit

The Nalanda ordnance factory was likely to become operational this year, an official said, adding that the pilot batch of bimodular charge systems had been assembled at ordnance factory in association with Defence research and development organisation and would be offered to Army for trials shortly.

The plant for bulk production will be set up by OFB using indigenous resources at half the cost proposed by foreign companies. The defence ministry relied on two foreign suppliers for the technology – South African firm Denel, whose subsidiary Somchem was to provide the technology, and subsequently IMI. But it blacklisted both following corruption charges.

So, a Desi 155mm seems to be on its way and the Nalanda factory seems to have been revived with DRDO inputs since both foreign partners are banned!


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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2012 09:33 
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Will wrote:
BAE has a JV with Mahindra. Why cant Mahindra bid to make a gun? That way you will get Bofors tech as well as spare the govt the Bofors ghost :mrgreen:

It is a Jinxed firm. JV with that would have reduced the chances that it would have been selected. OTOH OFB making that can make virtually indigenous. :mrgreen:

Anyway the current gove already has Himalayan corruption record against it. Deals with Bofors may not cause any more harm.


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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2012 12:42 
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pic of the Bastion yakhont system purchased by vietnam
http://img708.imageshack.us/img708/8641/xxxxxxen.jpg


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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2012 14:23 
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Philip wrote:
Grads saved the Lankan army's bacon too at one time in the Eelam War ,so an SL genenral told me.I like the Soviet idea of "wiping out the mountain".When ever I hear about 24 hr.,36 hr. firefight with Kashmiri infiltrators form Pak,holed up in some hideout,I cannot understand why we don't use attack helos or ATGMs,to demolish the hideout in swift time and prevent casualties from occuring on our side.Surely the troos on the ground have Carl Gustav's at least?


My father once used an RCL (anti tank gun) for a similar situation. :)

Just because these stories do not come out does not mean they are not happening. Its just that when media people arive at a scene it is very difficult to do them.


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PostPosted: 17 Apr 2012 16:24 
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Philip wrote:
Grads saved the Lankan army's bacon too at one time in the Eelam War ,so an SL genenral told me.I like the Soviet idea of "wiping out the mountain".When ever I hear about 24 hr.,36 hr. firefight with Kashmiri infiltrators form Pak,holed up in some hideout,I cannot understand why we don't use attack helos or ATGMs,to demolish the hideout in swift time and prevent casualties from occuring on our side.Surely the troos on the ground have Carl Gustav's at least?


Grads were a decisive force in the Sino-Soviet border conflict during the "split" in the communist world. One salvo of Grad rockets would wipe out so many Chinese infantry that even the "human wave" concept touting Chinese leadership fell silent.


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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2012 00:20 
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Slovak hopes to clinch $1-b howitzer gun deal.

The Slovak Republic is hoping to clinch nearly a $ one billion deal to supply 180 howitzer gun to India Army soon.According to Mr Marian Tomasik, ambassador of the Slovak Republic to India, the deal is expected to be sealed in the coming months.

“We hope to get the howitzer gun deal from the Indian Army in the coming months,” Mr. Tomasik said at an interactive session on bilateral trade organised by the Bharat Chamber of Commerce here on Tuesday.

A howitzer is a weapon which has a short barrel and uses small propellant chargers at relatively higher trajectories.

Indian Army had earlier floated a tender for purchase of 180 (155-mm) howitzer guns. A Slovak Republic company and Germany-based Rheinmetall Defence had bid for the deal.

Defence and power would be the two key areas of focus for bilateral trade between the two countries. According to Mr. Tomasik, both Slovak and India should focus on enhancing co-operation in defence and power sectors in order to further expand the bilateral trade between the two countries.

Slovakian imports include pharmaceuticals, rubber, organic chemicals, garments, science apparatus and special machinery. It exports automobiles, oils and fertilizers, machines and spare parts. While India's total exports to Slovak Republic have grown from $36.24 million in 2006-07 to $56.78 million in 2010-11, total imports have grown from $19.81 million in 2006-07 to $88.03 million in 2010-11.


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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2012 00:59 
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It is really a shame that India is still importing these after all these years, there should be absolutely no reason for not investing in the technology and keeping it up to date - This is the basic technology that army needs in case of war.

Things like Military diplomacy are far far away for a country that imports everything.


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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2012 01:07 
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Vipul wrote:
Slovak hopes to clinch $1-b howitzer gun deal.

The Slovak Republic is hoping to clinch nearly a $ one billion deal to supply 180 howitzer gun to India Army soon.According to Mr Marian Tomasik, ambassador of the Slovak Republic to India, the deal is expected to be sealed in the coming months. “We hope to get the howitzer gun deal from the Indian Army in the coming months,” Mr. Tomasik said at an interactive session on bilateral trade organised by the Bharat Chamber of Commerce here on Tuesday.
A howitzer is a weapon which has a short barrel and uses small propellant chargers at relatively higher trajectories.
Indian Army had earlier floated a tender for purchase of 180 (155-mm) howitzer guns. A Slovak Republic company and Germany-based Rheinmetall Defence had bid for the deal.
Defence and power would be the two key areas of focus for bilateral trade between the two countries. According to Mr. Tomasik, both Slovak and India should focus on enhancing co-operation in defence and power sectors in order to further expand the bilateral trade between the two countries.
Slovakian imports include pharmaceuticals, rubber, organic chemicals, garments, science apparatus and special machinery. It exports automobiles, oils and fertilizers, machines and spare parts. While India's total exports to Slovak Republic have grown from $36.24 million in 2006-07 to $56.78 million in 2010-11, total imports have grown from $19.81 million in 2006-07 to $88.03 million in 2010-11.
Image

Image


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PostPosted: 18 Apr 2012 11:04 
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Govt acts on General VK Singh's complaint, fast-tracks acquisition of weapons

Quote:
The meeting "expressed satisfaction'' at the progress of procurement cases for the 4th regiment of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles at a cost of Rs 4,100 crore and two regiments of the Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launchers for Rs 2,136 crore.

The new BrahMos regiment, with the missile's Block-III version that has "steep dive capability'' to take out targets hidden behind a mountain range, will be deployed in Arunachal Pradesh, with the first three catering for the western front with Pakistan.


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2012 01:23 
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keshavchandra wrote:
Govt acts on General VK Singh's complaint, fast-tracks acquisition of weapons

Quote:
The meeting "expressed satisfaction'' at the progress of procurement cases for the 4th regiment of the BrahMos supersonic cruise missiles at a cost of Rs 4,100 crore and two regiments of the Pinaka multi-barrel rocket launchers for Rs 2,136 crore.

The new BrahMos regiment, with the missile's Block-III version that has "steep dive capability'' to take out targets hidden behind a mountain range, will be deployed in Arunachal Pradesh, with the first three catering for the western front with Pakistan.


Going by the numbers below, two Pinaka regiments would be the following:
  • 36 x launcher vehicles (2 x regiments) -> 6 x launcher vehicles each Battery; 3 batteries per regiment
  • 36 x loader-cum-replenishment vehicles (2 x regiments) -> 6 x loader-cum-replenishment vehicles each Battery
  • 18 x replenishment vehicles (2 x regiments) -> 3 x replenishment vehicles each Battery
  • 12 x Command Post vehicle (2 x regiments) -> 2 x Command Post vehicle each Battery
  • 6 x DIGICORA MET radar (2 x regiments) -> 1 x DIGICORA MET radar each Battery
  • 432 x deployed rockets (2 x regiments) -> 72 x deployed rockets each Battery
  • Plus Reserves -> rockets & vehicles

Pinaka Multi Barrel Rocket Launcher
Quote:
...
Pinaka is a complete MBRL system, each Pinaka battery consists of: six launcher vehicles, each with 12 rockets; six loader-cum-replenishment vehicles; three replenishment vehicles; two Command Post vehicle (one stand by) with a Fire Control computer, and the DIGICORA MET radar. A battery of six launchers can neutralize an area of 1000 m x 800 m.

The Army generally deploys a battery that has a total of 72 rockets. All the 72 rockets can be fired in 44 seconds, taking out an area of 1 km2. Each launcher can fire in a different direction too. The system has the flexibility to fire all the rockets in one go or only a few.
...
The first Pinaka regiment was raised on February 2000. Each regiment consists of three batteries of six Pinakas each, plus reserves.
...


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2012 05:22 
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Thanks srai. Love the way you keep up the stats!

While every indigenous purchase is welcome, though, given our Arty situation, we could easily accommodate many times this number.

Do you know how many regiments have been operationalized so far - is it 3?


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2012 06:29 
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Prem Kumar wrote:
Thanks srai. Love the way you keep up the stats!

While every indigenous purchase is welcome, though, given our Arty situation, we could easily accommodate many times this number.

Do you know how many regiments have been operationalized so far - is it 3?


Thanks.

According to this article below, 80 x Pinaka MRBLs were ordered in March 2006. This would be equivalent to around 4 regiments as per my previous calculations, plus around 8 launchers as reserves. Together with the new 2 regiment order, this would total to at least 6 regiments by 2015 (when all deliveries likely completed).

Quote:
...
The first Pinaka regiment was raised in February 2000 [19]. A regiment consists of three batteries of six Pinakas each, plus reserves. It is expected that one regiment will be added each year as the oldest BM-21s are withdrawn from service. Tata Power's Advanced Material Division and Larsen & Tubro's Heavy Engineering Division were awarded a contract worth Rs 200 crore (US $45 million) by Army HQ, on 29 March 2006, to produce 40 Pinaka MRBLs each. [20] Tata Power's CEO, Rahul Chaudhry, stated that the first systems would be delivered within six months.


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2012 12:01 
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^^^The fist Pinaka Regiment was raised in 2010 and not 2000 as given in the wiki article. That is an internet rumor that has persisted till date. What had happened in 1999 was that one of the Rocket Regiments (which employs BM-21) was earmarked as test-unit to work with DRDO on Pinaka - as was 43rd Armored for Arjun. This unit was also deployed in Kargil and Pinaka was test fired in Kargil as well.

The first two regiments had been raised in 2010 and two more were planned by 2012. There have been media reports that 3 Regiments are operational - chances are that all four are operational. These two Pinaka Regiments could be in addition to four existing units.


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2012 12:23 
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Questions to rohitvats:

a) What is the current composition of the Arty Divs in terms of Brigades & Regt. ratios plus the equipment they hold?

b) Are the Arty Divs a more consolidated form of the Corps Arty Brigades?

c) This is more a reconfirmation - Are there 3 Arty Divs? IIRC, it was you who had discovered based on scattered media reports regarding the same

TIA


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2012 12:32 
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rohitvats wrote:
^^^The fist Pinaka Regiment was raised in 2010 and not 2000 as given in the wiki article. That is an internet rumor that has persisted till date. What had happened in 1999 was that one of the Rocket Regiments (which employs BM-21) was earmarked as test-unit to work with DRDO on Pinaka - as was 43rd Armored for Arjun. This unit was also deployed in Kargil and Pinaka was test fired in Kargil as well.

The first two regiments had been raised in 2010 and two more were planned by 2012. There have been media reports that 3 Regiments are operational - chances are that all four are operational. These two Pinaka Regiments could be in addition to four existing units.



Aparently the first 300 Pinaka rockets too were supplied by OFB only in 2008, which report also mentioned 1000 rockets per annum to be supplied from 2009 onwards. Recently we had reports suggesting a plan to raise production to 5000 pa and finally to 12000 pa.


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PostPosted: 19 Apr 2012 12:40 
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Ajay Sharma wrote:
Questions to rohitvats:

M dear friend, you ask questions to which I myself have not been able to get definite answers. I have done some leg work on the topic and let me share the same.All this is guess estimate made after reading bits and pieces of news from here and there - so, please take it for FWIW.

a) What is the current composition of the Arty Divs in terms of Brigades & Regt. ratios plus the equipment they hold?
My guess is that it is 2 x Gun brigades+1 Composite Rocket Brigade (with Pinaka and Smerch). In addition, I expect there will be a composite missile brigade which will hold the Brahmos and Prahaar Regiments - as and when they reach the Command Level. I am of the opinion that Brahmos Regiment(s) will be held by the Artillery Divisions.

The BM-21 GRAD equipped Rocket Regiments may well be part of the composite Rocket Brigade with the Arty Divisions.


b) Are the Arty Divs a more consolidated form of the Corps Arty Brigades?
The most important question - trying to figure the above out took the most time. You see, apart from the Corps Arty brigades, IA also had (I) Arty Bdes under the AHQ. The Arty Divisions seem to have been formed by folding up (I) Arty brigades into the Arty Divisions. Now, it seems that the Arty Division come under Strike Corps - whether these Strike Corps continue to retain the Corps Arty Bde is something I don't know.

c) This is more a reconfirmation - Are there 3 Arty Divs? IIRC, it was you who had discovered based on scattered media reports regarding the same
Yes, there are 3 Arty Divisions - 40th under Western Command/41st under Southern Command/42nd under South Western Command

TIA You're welcome


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PostPosted: 20 Apr 2012 23:39 
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^^
Thanks rohitvats. As always, you are surely a treasure trove of info and analysis.

My guess on the equipment composition is that most probably the gun regiments are equipped with FH77B and/or upgunned 155mm M46. Pinakas & Grads would be in a separate rocket brigade + missile group comprising of SS-150/SS-250 Prithvi and Brahmos + UAV equipped SATA regiments.

Perhaps, Prahar would follow once inducted.

Not sure if this is out of line (and pls let me know, will delete it accordingly)... I once saw a mural in an Arty Div Mess depicting a war zone with FH77B+Prithvi+Pinaka+UAV (not sure if I recall Brahmos). So either it was imagination or a depiction of the equiment currently held by that Div. Pls take it FWIW...

If I am not mistaken, the (I) Arty Brigades were a Corps or Command level resource and not AHQ. I know for sure the (I) Engineer brigade was a corps resource, so guess its the same for the (I) Arty and (I) AD Brigades


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 00:08 
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^^^Ajay, the long held belief has been that Prithvi Missile Groups were held by Arty Divisions. But over time, I have come to disregard this sentiment. IMO, Prithvi Missile Groups are part of SFC; please remember that till A-2 and A-3 came online, our deterrent consisted of A-1 and Prithvi Missiles. It is only now that A-2 and A-3 have started making appearance in SFC. Plus, till date, I have not seen a single picture of Prithvi TEL in R-Day Parade or otherwise with formation sign of any of the artillery divisions. Hence, the conclusion.

On the equipment front - yes, it should be a mix of FH-77 and M-46 (up-gunned or otherwise). From what I know, there were (I) Arty Bdes AHQ. For example, 41st Arty division was raised by bringing 97(I) and then 98(I) Arty bdes under its aegis.(source: Sainik Samachar)

The Orbat of an art division could be something like this:

2 x Gun Brigades
1 x Composite Rocket Brigade
1 x Composite Missile Brigade
1 x SATA Regiment (with WLR and UAV flight)

BTW - thanks to your question, I stumbled on something I had been searching for a long time - the location of 42nd Arty Division. Well, the news item(s) say that the Division HQ was located in Alwar all this while. However, South-Western Command is shifting the Division HQ to a place close to Jaipur - the HQ of South-Western Command.

See the excerpt of the report in media:

Quote:
The Indian Army has decided to shift its 42 Artillery Division, part of the Jaipur- based South Western command, from Alwar, 160 km from Jaipur, to Bassi, 25 km from here, to "increase its operational preparedness", reports Mail Today.

The army has initiated the process of acquiring 4,607 bighas of land in Barwa and Parsoli villages of Bassi tehsil for the shift. Of this, 3,305 bighas is owned by the state government while the remaining 1,302 bighas are privately owned.


Source: http://www.indiatvnews.com/news/India/-Artillery-Division-To-Shift-To-Bassi-Near-Jaipur-15608.html


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 00:42 
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^^
Quite possible about Prithvis with SFC. However, if A-2 and A-3 are going to be now held with SFC, then logically Prithvis would be reassigned to the Arty Divs as a battlefield weapon from its earlier strategic role

Thanks for finding out the location of the 42nd Arty Div. I thought it would have been Naseerabad (close to Ajmer) since there used to be an Inf Bde, (I) Arty Bde, (I) Engineer Bde and IIRC some Armoured/Mech Inf elements


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 01:03 
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rohitvats wrote:
^^^The fist Pinaka Regiment was raised in 2010 and not 2000 as given in the wiki article. That is an internet rumor that has persisted till date. What had happened in 1999 was that one of the Rocket Regiments (which employs BM-21) was earmarked as test-unit to work with DRDO on Pinaka - as was 43rd Armored for Arjun. This unit was also deployed in Kargil and Pinaka was test fired in Kargil as well.

The first two regiments had been raised in 2010 and two more were planned by 2012. There have been media reports that 3 Regiments are operational - chances are that all four are operational. These two Pinaka Regiments could be in addition to four existing units.


Thanks Rohitvats.

So, even though, the Pinaka proved itself in Kargil, it took a whole decade to raise 2 regiments. Especially in light of the known artillery deficiencies, which was also brought out during Kargil. This is downright criminal.


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 01:11 
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^^
Criminal on whose part?


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 01:20 
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Ajay Sharma wrote:
^^
Quite possible about Prithvis with SFC. However, if A-2 and A-3 are going to be now held with SFC, then logically Prithvis would be reassigned to the Arty Divs as a battlefield weapon from its earlier strategic role

Thanks for finding out the location of the 42nd Arty Div. I thought it would have been Naseerabad (close to Ajmer) since there used to be an Inf Bde, (I) Arty Bde, (I) Engineer Bde and IIRC some Armoured/Mech Inf elements


On the Prithvi front - I think some sort of CBM will be required where we openly declare that Prithvi Missile Groups have been moved away from SFC and these will be used as Theater Ballistic Missiles (TBM). Otherwise, every time we move these missiles close to the border, pakees and american are going to freak out.

There is a reason why Naseerabad could not have been a location (even though my thought went in that direction) - all the formations in the area are from Southern Command. The (I) Arty Brigade you refer to is 374 Composite Artillery Brigade and which I think is the 3rd brigade of 41st Artillery Division. Scroll down on the 2nd link given below and check the formation sign on the officer's arm (Brigade Commander, 374 Composite Artillery Brigade is the Chairman of KV Naseerabad management committee)

http://kvnasirabad.org/vmc.html
http://kvnasirabad.org/photogallery.html

Mech Infantry is from 340(I) Mechanized Brigade under 12 Corps.


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 01:27 
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^^
Man... Thats some research...!! Hats off to u :D


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 01:35 
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Ajay Sharma wrote:
^^
Man... Thats some research...!! Hats off to u :D


Thanks....all you need to do is spend (waste, depending on who you ask :P ) looking for bits and pieces of information on the net and try reach a conclusion. Sainik Samachar is a good source for such nuggets of information. It is online and free of cost.


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 01:38 
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Prem Kumar wrote:
Thanks Rohitvats.

So, even though, the Pinaka proved itself in Kargil, it took a whole decade to raise 2 regiments. Especially in light of the known artillery deficiencies, which was also brought out during Kargil. This is downright criminal.


Prem, nothing was proved in 1999. It took DRDO till 2008 to perfect the system. And once it was done, order were immediately placed for 2 regiment worth of systems and sub-systems.


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 09:53 
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A PSU and a high tech East European powerhouse. Now we're cookin with gas!! :roll:


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 22:15 
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Prem Kumar wrote:
So, even though, the Pinaka proved itself in Kargil, it took a whole decade to raise 2 regiments. Especially in light of the known artillery deficiencies, which was also brought out during Kargil. This is downright criminal.


Premkumar ji, the gaps in Tube Arty cannot be filled by Rocket Arty. I also believed in using one in lieu of other but the costs & delivery vehicle weights are just apples and oranges.

42 kg 155 mm shell is i think 5000 Rupees a pop for 25-30-35 km range with just a change in the Cal.
18-20 kg 122 mm BM-21 shell was 25000/- a pop about twenty years back for a 20.4 km range flat.

both dumb of course. But notice that TCS makes these cost comparisons go bonkers. So the real deal, if you actually insist on replacing one with the other, is guidance not the numbers, that too only in a role requiring accuracy. The requirement for numbers (Tube) can only be filled up by Tube.


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PostPosted: 21 Apr 2012 23:12 
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Having just 4 pinaka regiments is way too less considering grads are getting old. Certainly the army needs more than 72 of the kind if they are serious about the two front theory.

This holds for a host of other systems too but, I have always felt we should have more numbers here specially with the home grown product around.


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PostPosted: 22 Apr 2012 11:39 
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Grad should not ideally be replaced by Pinaka entirely. Just as in tube Arty, rocket Arty also needs light, medium, heavy mix. the Grads are very effective short range rockets. More importantly a Grad launcher carries a lot of them. Yes, we could modernize it but overall, it can add punch while on the move. The Pinaka on the other hand can gradually replace the Smerch, after a long range rocket (not counting Prahaar) comes into play.

Same way for tube, we would need the 105 and 155/45 to play different roles.


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PostPosted: 22 Apr 2012 18:53 
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BM 21 on Tata truck
http://www.defencesolutions-tatamotors.com/media/video/grade-bm-21-lpta2038.swf

Are they being upgraded or only the truck is being replaced?


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PostPosted: 22 Apr 2012 19:35 
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That chassis is flexing a lot. Will that not have effect on accuracy ?


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