International Naval News & Discussion

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nakul
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by nakul »

Here is an interesting tidbit for us:
The word catamaran was derived from Tamil word Kattumaram (கட்டுமரம்), literally 'tied wood'.
Singha
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

australia seems to be a good player in the cat construction thing. the chinese took one of their civil designs and made that stealth missile fac.
they also had this huge logistics cat called Jervis bay.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

Singha Ji,

Why go all exotic with a trimaran hull form. Why not revisit the Moskava concept. Go for the dedicated Flat top Helo destroyer designed by the IJN.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

if you mean the Osumi/Dokdo types they are plenty big and slow. I was looking for a 12,000t cheap fast mover soln on a smallish cost/size footprint.
Pratyush
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Pratyush »

^^^

Yes & No, my point is as follows, when you have a ship capable of deploying ASW assets, then its own speed is immaterial. Its main purpose is to arrive in a particular area and let its helos do the job.

So I suggested the IJN ship, as it seems to the modern implementation of the ASW Helo carier. I am not very particular about the size of the ship as such.

I am thinking in terms of a classic escort carrier of WW 2 and how it can be implemented in a in modern context, and be capable of supporting manned and unmanned ACs.

However it seems that you are thinking about a future evolution of the UXVconcept
Singha
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

the Osumi will work fine if it loses the LCAC docking area and enlarges the hanger to potentially twice its current size. also redesign of elevators would be needed per this link to use large helis
http://www.jeffhead.com/worldwideaircra ... /osumi.htm

looks like a reasonable and cheap workable idea.

the UXV imo does not know what it wants to be - land attack cruiser or a ASW vessel. it looks like a ugly sandwich of a cruiser front end and a ASW carrier back end. I predict it will not be funded.
Ravi Karumanchiri
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Ravi Karumanchiri »

I'm not sure this belongs here, but I have to ask: Does anyone know what this is?
(It looks suspiciously naval; perhaps the inner hull of an upcoming Russian sub?)

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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

it probably is some chemical reaction vessels. I have seen L&T fabricate and advertise similar ones in India, albeit not so freakishly huge.
Austin
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

Most likely would be an industrial boiler or some thing related to oil industry , pressure hull of submarine are not designed in those ways
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

SSGN Kazan: First Radically New Sub in Russian Navy
Lead nuclear-powered cruise missile submarine SSGN Kazan being built under modernized Project 885M Yasen-M by Sevmash shipyard for Russian Navy will become the first fourth-generation nuclear submarine with absolutely new technical outfit having no analogs in national military shipbuilding, reported ITAR-TASS referring to an insider in defense industry.

"In contrast to fourth-generation strategic subs Yury Dolgoruky and Alexander Nevsky [Project 955 Borei] with only 40% of newly applied equipment, all systems of the multipurpose SSGN Kazan will be absolutely new, never used before. I mean radically new hi-tech equipment having no analogs either in Soviet or in Russian shipbuilding", said the source.

"Technically, SSGN Kazan will be comparable to the most hi-tech and expensive American Sea Wolf attack submarine, and even outclass her in silence and some other parameters", said the source reminding that the US had shut down production of those subs due to expensiveness.
Austin
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

Ship-Shape Submarines

Russia is ready for Project 75(I) competition
By Vladimir ‘Vovick’ Karnozov
FORCE September 2012
Moscow: India continues to buy a lot from overseas weapon manufacturers, but in the past few years, the focus has been shifting to license production and technology offsets. The process of selecting a specimen, which can be copied locally, is now more guarded. In such a situation, it is best for collaborators to have their products ordered by the armed forces of their home country.

Seen from this perspective, chances of the Central Design Bureau for Marine Engineering ‘Rubin’ and its industrial partners have gone up, especially, after the Russian ministry of defence ordered quantity production of Project

955/A nuclear-powered underwater cruisers, and Project 636.3 and Project 677 diesel-electric submarines. Export version of the Project 677, the Amur 1650, is on offer in India in the ongoing Project 75(I) competition for six units. This summer saw two more Rubin-designed ships become a reality. On 30 July 2012 Russia’s President Vladimir Putin travelled to Severodvinsk to lay down the foundation of Duke Vladimir (named after the Kievan Rus ruler whose reign extended from 978 to 1015 AD) – the first in the series of five Project 955A underwater cruisers, coming after three Project 955s which have already been built. On August 17, Russian navy commander Admiral Victor Chirkov led a similar ceremony in St. Petersburg for the Old Oskol, a third in the series of six Project 636.3 diesel-electric submarines for the Black Sea Fleet.

Speaking to the media on these occasions, both Putin and Chirkov promised more orders for local shipbuilders. Putin said that 4.44 trillion roubles will be spent on construction of new ships for the Russian navy’s “multi-purpose groupings of general use”, adding that one-third of that sum will be provided in the next five years. Another important statement made by Putin on July 30 was: “By 2020, the navy will take delivery of 51 surface combatant and 16 multi-purpose submarines.”

According to the Armament Program 2011-2020, during the next eight years, the Russian Navy shall receive eight Project 955/A strategic underwater cruisers; eight Project 885 fast-attack submarines; 15 frigates and 35 corvettes. This will boost the share of modern equipment in the navy’s arsenal to 30 per cent by 2016 and further to 70 per cent by 2020. Putin stressed the need to equip new ships with modern long range rocketry. “It is exactly the weaponry that always determined power and worthiness of combat ships in wartime,” he said.

Priorities of the Russian Navy

Chirkov stated that the naval ship-building programme 2011-2020 “will be materialized completely.” In particular, the navy expects 14-20 non-nuclear submarines, most of which will be from the stable of Project 636.3 and 677. The admiral said, “We will go forward without changing earlier decisions. Instead, we will work so as to unify ships of various types and upgrade them as necessary so as to achieve a greater degree of cross-type unification, and ensure the newly launched ships carry state-of-the-art weaponry.”

Three years ago, the Russian Navy placed order for six Project 636.3 submarines. First of them, the Novorossiysk, was laid down at the Admiralty Shipyards in St. Petersburg in August 2010 (commissioning expected in late 2013) and the second, the Rostov-upon-Don, in November 2011. They have standard displacement of 2,350 t, underwater speed up to 20 knots, endurance of 45 days and compliment of 52.

Compared to Project 877 and ships which are already in service of the Russian Navy such as the exportable Project 877EKM and Project 636, the new Project 636.3 “is more stealthy, with new acoustics systems and means of communications. Besides, she has a higher degree of automation and newer weaponry. The new submarine is highly capable, and can stay in service for a few dozen years. The most important thing for us about these submarines is that with them the navy can go into the next decade with state-of-the-art technologies and capabilities.” Chirkov added that the Project 636.3 has no equal among western diesel-electric submarines simply because the Russian design has a much more powerful missile system.

With Project 636.3, Chirkov also noticed an improved comfort of the crew. “She has a good mess room, and fairly good living quarters – all this provides a sufficient level of comfort to enable the crews to carry out their tasks not only in coastal defense, but also on an a blue-water mission.”

The Admiralty Shipyards holds contracts for construction of over 12 diesel electric submarines (including six Project 636.1 for Vietnam and six Project 636.3 for the Russian navy). Of these eight are being built.

In the meantime, construction of the Project 677 series had been temporarily frozen after completion of the head vessel (the Saint Petersburg) and putting her into the Russian navy register in May 2010. The reason behind putting this programme on hold was to allow sufficient time for the navy to test the head vessel at sea, and the industry to allocate and fix potential design flaws.

In July 2012, the MoD resumed funding for completion of two earlier-started hulls, the Kronstadt and the Sebastopol. These will be completed with minor changes to the baseline design. “Our (future) plans are based on the assumption that within two years all remaining issues pertaining to (indigenous) AIP (Air Independent Propulsion) will be resolved; we are planning to put the new propulsion system on the third and fourth hulls (of the Project 677),” said Chirkov.

The Russian Navy no longer suffers from problems that affected it several years ago. “We notice a higher degree of interest among young people in joining the navy. This results in more applicants going to the military schools and institutes, and a tougher competition to pass exams and get accepted. Besides, those who serve on submarines of the Northern Fleet and those based on the Kamchatka peninsula are on a contract (not conscripts). This proves that the importance of the navy has gone up in the eyes of the public,” said Chirkov.

Rubin’s New Leader


The popularity of navy is good news for Central Design Bureau for Marine Engineering ‘Rubin’. Speaking to FORCE, Igor Vilnit, who took over as general director in March 2012 from Andrei Diachkov, said, “Rubin will continue to work closely with Sevmash Shipyards in Severodvinsk, which builds Rubin-designed strategic underwater cruisers. “There is a big ship-building programme in place, giving both enterprises a high workload. This requires making right decisions on time regarding submarine development and construction so that governmental orders are completed in the shortest time possible and at the lowest expense.”

Vilnit joined Rubin in 1979 and since then has been involved in many military and civilian programmes of the company. When asked about his priorities as the new head of Rubin, he said the main one was to fulfill, efficiently and on time, the governmental orders for submarines. “There is a huge amount of work to be done. In some cases, it requires innovative approaches. Managing development and assembly of specimens for series production is a challenging task, particularly in the present environment of a market-driven economy and the post-crisis conditions.”

Rubin holds governmental contracts for development of nuclear-powered, diesel-electric submarines and special equipment. Besides, Rubin is working on civil programmes and will expand this activity.

Military technical co-operation with foreign countries is another area that Rubin has been involved in. “Bidding in international tenders, like those in India, gives a good chance to compete face-to-face with European rivals. It is a strong stimulus for further development and improvement,” says Vilnit. While the Russian ship-building industry now enjoys big contracts from the Kremlin, winning a foreign order brings in more money and bigger workload.

Another important priority for Vilnit is to improve Rubin’s team and take timely measures for its support and development. He believes in worthiness of special “social programmes” (complimentary to salaries and wages), from which the company’s employees can benefit, and also the company itself, as such programmes result in a better teamwork and mutual understanding among the employees. The team, he says, is well balanced in terms of skills and age. “It has some long-standing specialists and some young university graduates. Although we have always had people seeking a job at Rubin, nonetheless, we feel a shortage of middle-aged specialists. During the times of Perestroika, less people sought jobs in the defence industry. Rubin, like many other defence enterprises, was less attractive for ambitious university graduates.”

That said, Vilnit insists that the cadre problem is no longer acute for Rubin. “We have enough representatives of the younger generation who have amassed sufficient skills and knowledge through participation in the Project 955 and other projects, including development phase and construction of head vessels. And this secures the future for our enterprise.”

Tech-Savvy


Rubin continues to master computer-aided design technologies. Although the process started 20 years ago, it was a big challenge, and still is. On certain projects the entire documentation package issued by Rubin is completely computerized. “These technologies are not new to us, but we are still mastering and perfecting them.” One of the challenges is to provide ‘a completely digital’ documentation package covering design and development of a vessel, manufacturing, delivery to the customer and a developer’s and manufacturer’s support throughout. This necessitates application of CAD/CAM/CAE, lean manufacturing and logistic support.

The Rubin team has tried many innovative technologies on maritime platforms, a purely civilian activity being developed in addition to the core business. The company started working on it in early 1990s, when military orders ran low. Although the situation has changed, Rubin is not going to give it up. “We started this activity 20 years ago, and have achieved considerable results. Good relations have been established with customers for maritime platforms, as well as overseas and local suppliers of major components. Today, Rubin is the leading company on maritime platforms in Russia,” says Vilnit.

Platforms are a very complex sea objects. “It is very hard to find your niche in a highly competitive environment, and easy to lose it. To stay competitive, you must improve all the time; the market-driven economy requires you to make efforts. It is as though the market is always asking you same old question, ‘are you going to give up’? Rubin shall never give up!” asserts Vilnit.

The company has developed a number of various platforms, and is now shaping one for rotorcraft operations. The work goes under respective contracts from RAO Gazprom fossil fuel giant and is in the course of Russian government’s federal programes for development of advanced civil technologies. The platforms in question may have different applications. For instance, they can facilitate transportation of workers to and from drilling platforms or oil rigs in the open sea. Rubin is also developing a platform with helicopter deck measuring 100x100 metres, which will be able to serve several helicopters at a time and withstand engine-out landings.

Next Generation


As of 2012, the Russian ship-building industry has brought out a fourth generation of submarines (long after after World War II). The line is formed by the Project 955/A strategic underwater cruiser, Project 885 fast-attack and the Project 677 diesel-electric submarines. Lead vessels of all the three classes have been built; now they will undergo sea trials.

So, what comes next? Will Russia work on the fifth generation submarine? Vilnit’s answer is in the affirmative. He notes that the life cycle of a concurrent submarine is normally over 50 years, starting from research and development, and going all the way through construction, operational service and withdrawal of last ship in a series. “In our industry, life cycles are very long, and therefore, from the start we have to think properly of a new design.”

The process of conceiving a next generation warship must be an unbroken chain of small steps forward. Formulating requirements and putting together specification for a next generation warship is “a constant, ever-going process”. It starts with collection and thorough analysis of comments and reports on in-service ships of the current generation, especially lead vessels in a series. “Following this approach, we have been collecting and analyzing data coming from the head ships which belong to the fourth generation, in order to formulate requirements and specifications for the fifth generation,” says Vilnit.

In Russia this work (perfecting components) is being done not only at Rubin and other design houses, shipyards and their vendors, but also by dedicated MoD establishments. In co-operation with the industry and scientific institutes, the MoD runs various R&D programmes aimed at shaping the next generation. This persistent effort helps ship designers create a futuristic image of a ship. “Our design house is always in search of new, advanced solutions. Our industrial partners and vendors are companies specializing in acoustics, radio electronics and weaponry”.

On being asked whether this rather new idea of making silos (vertical launchers) on submarines which are able to fire both ballistic and cruise missiles, will have applications on future submarines of the Russian navy, Vilnit said that weaponry is the main thing about strategic underwater cruisers. Any new quality that the human brain works out must be tried by the designers. Their goal is to blend this new quality into design of the ship so as to ensure that during crisis such as wartime, the strategic cruiser will be able to accomplish her mission effectively. Rubin team works “tirelessly and without breaks” on making its submarines more efficient and combat-capable.

Unification of weapons systems is a trend in modern ship-building. “We have been following this trend,” says Vilnit. In technical terms, unification has some firm footing. “Having understood this, we also need to understand that any given missile cannot be launched from any given silo, not without some preparatory work.” Unification between launch systems is possible through a number of design solutions applicable to various missile types. Unification of components is a direction that Russian submarine designers have been paying attention to.

The former Soviet Union, and now Russia, have produced a number of titanium-hulled submarines. Today, most of Russian titanium output goes to aircraft manufacturers, notably Boeing and Airbus. Do Russian metallurgists produce high-quality titanium in sufficient numbers for the ship-building industry to continue building such ships?

Rubin uses titanium in submarine’s structures. As a construction material, titanium features some very special qualities — it is strong and yet lighter than steel. This metal is harder to work with, and requires welding to be conducted in an artificial atmosphere whereas steel can be welded in the open. Making a submarine involves a lot of welding. Using titanium instead of steel makes the submarine more expensive but gives better performance. “The key question is to reduce manufacturing expenses. This can be achieved through advanced technologies applicable to structures made of titanium,” says Vilnit.

Rubin was responsible for development of the Project 685 deep-water fast-attack submarine. One such vessel, the K-278 Komsomolets, was built at Sevmash and served with the Soviet navy from 1984-’89. Having spent 450 days at sea, she demonstrated her ability to operate at a depth of 1,000 metres and more. “Rubin continues to work on the theme of titanium application in ship-building. We seek for new solutions that would be implemented in future ship designs. This is because the titanium has some good qualities that would give our future ships some advantage,” says Vilnit.

The Russian metallurgists are ready to supply titanium to local ship-builders in quantities sufficient to make submarines. “We meet regularly and talk,” said Vilnit, cautioning that one should not generalise and keep in mind that titanium alloys for aviation and those for shipbuilding are ‘world apart in their qualities’.

Diesel-Electric Submarines

Major demand for Russian diesel-electric submarines helped the Admiralty Shipyards to streamline their production. So far, 55 Rubin-designed Kilo-class submarines (Project 877/E/EKM/636) have been completed, and more are under construction. Normally, construction cycle for a Project 636 is three years.

In addition to 23 Kilo-class ships built for the Soviet navy, the local customer has recently placed order for six more, in customized version Project 636.3. This improved design has incorporated many innovations, some of which have been tried on exportable examples built for China, Algeria and Vietnam. Besides, the navy ordered a considerable number of new or improved onboard systems. The main reason behind the Russian navy’s decision to order six Project 636.3 ships was the high reliability of the baseline submarine. That apart, it has low acquisition costs and requires little maintenance.

These factors may influence certain overseas customers, including India, to decide in favour of buying an additional quantity of improved Project 636 hulls. This may provide a worthwhile ‘stop-gap’ solution before next generation submarines become available in sufficient numbers.

The Project 677 and its export derivative Amur 1650 are meant to supersede the Kilo class. Alexander Arsentiev leads this work in the capacity of chief designer; he reports to Igor Molchanov, recently appointed the head of Rubin’s Diesel-electric group.

Vilnit is thankful to Admiral Chirkov for his strong support to the Project 677. First, he approved of the improved design which takes account of sea testing already made on the head vessel. Second, the Admiral has made important statements recently about the Russian navy resuming funding for construction of series hulls. After these statements were made, “certain overseas customers approached us again,” said Vilnit. Today, Rosoboronexport and the Federal Service for Military Technical Cooperation along with foreign countries are interacting with these customers.

Meanwhile, lead vessel, the Saint Petersburg, continues her sea trials so that design flaws and manufacturing deficiencies, if any, can be discovered on time and fixed before series production begins. “Any new piece of advanced machinery requires careful attention in the beginning,” says Vilnit. At the time we spoke, the Saint Petersburg was at Baltic Fleet base in Baltyisk, undergoing preparations to depart for the Arctic waters where additional testing in oceanic environment shall take place.

Vilnit told FORCE that the Admiralty Shipyards resumed work on the Kronstadt and the Sebastopol. “They will be completed according to the improved design already available from Rubin.”

The Amur 1650 is on offer in India with AIP based on fuel cells and electrochemical generator employing reformation of diesel fuel to produce hydrogen. “Adding an AIP results in longer duration of underwater patrol. From a builder’s perspective, this requires relatively short amount of additional work to be done on a submarine, as an additional section (containing AIP) is inserted into her hull.” Vilnit says that both versions, the baseline with no AIP and the newer one with it, are on offer. “We will keep both versions on offer, to give our customers a choice. Difference in performance comes at a price.”

Rubin continues working on the Ion-Lithium battery for submarine applications. Such batteries are already used widely on the consumer market, but are not yet ready for naval service. Manufacturers are yet to achieve certain parameters — including electric capacity and specified parameters of the electrical current in discharge mode. The Ion-Lithium battery promises an increase in time of underwater low-speed patrol by 50 per cent, and in duration of full speed underwater cruise by three times.

The Russian Navy commander has recently confirmed his interest in speeding up this work and promised more funds to complete it. Rubin specialists have made “good progress recently”. Vilnit adds, “We already have a full scale specimen of such a battery. I believe that in less than two years we can get our Ion-Lithium battery installed on a submarine and be ready for mass production.”

The Indian Connection


One of the success stories of Indo-Russian co-operation is building 10 Project 877EKM submarines for the Indian navy (Sindhughost class) and then keeping them up-to-date and seaworthy. Last in this series, the S65 Sindhushastra, was built as per an improved design, with the Club-S missile system (at that time even the Russian navy did not have it).

Starting in 2000, two Indian submarines underwent modernisation at the Admiralty Shipyards and four at Zvezdochka in Severodvinsk, during which they were equipped with the Club-S. In June 2012, the last of the submarines to be upgraded in Russia, the S63 Sindurakshak, was launched on water after repairs. She is due to rejoin the Indian Navy by the year-end. Three more Sindhughost class submarines are planned to undergo modernisation at Visakhapatnam under the supervision of Rubin and Zvezdochka advisors.

Russia is offering a second refit and modernisation programme. It can add from five-seven to 10 years of lifetime to these ageing submarines. The INS Vargi of Rubin’s Project 641 served for 36 years until being finally de-commissioned in 2011. Should the Indian side accept this offer, it may prove a timely and cost-effective measure to bridge the gap until induction of next generation submarines.

Defense procurement procedures require collaborators from foreign countries to work closely with the domestic manufacturers through massive offset programmes. In the case of Project 75(I), offset is said to be over 30 per cent of contract value. Meeting this requirement is quite a challenge. And yet, the Russian bidder — the Amur 1650 is officially offered by Rosoboronexport state arms vendor — is optimistic about it.

Vilnit is also optimistic. “I believe we can make it. We have been talking to both government organisations and privately-held companies so that we can use Indian-made components. As far as Rubin is concerned, we can also offer something in offset to our Indian partners. India is interested in latest technologies in design and development of modern naval and maritime equipment. We can offer something in this sphere,” he says.
Austin
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

Nice website on Astute class submarine

http://www.astuteclass.com/
pralay
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by pralay »

LOL
hilarious things are happening in South-East Asia Sea
These are today's pictures

Japanese Coast Guard vessels fired water cannon to turn away about 40 Taiwan fishing boats and eight Taiwan Coast Guard vessels from waters Japan considers its own on Tuesday in the latest twist to a row between Tokyo and Beijing.
Taiwan boats intrude Japanese territorial waters near Senkaku Islands.

Image
A Japan Coast Guard vessel (R) sprays water against Taiwanese fishing boats, while a Taiwanese coast guard ship (L) also sprays water in the South East Asia Sea near Senkaku islands(Japan)

Image
An aerial view shows a Japan Coast Guard patrol ship (3rd from top) spraying water towards a fishing boat from Taiwan as Taiwan's Coast Guard vessel (4th from top) sprays water near the Japanese islands in the South-East Asia Sea

Image
A Japan Coast Guard patrol boat sprays water against a Taiwanese fishing boat, top, near Senkaku islands(Japan)

Image
An aerial view shows Japan Coast Guard patrol ship, fishing boats from Taiwan and Taiwan's Coast Guard vessel sailing side by side near the Senkaku Islands(Japan) in South-East Asia Sea

Image
An aerial view shows a Japan Coast Guard patrol ship (C) spraying water at a fishing boat from Taiwan as Taiwan's Coast Guard vessel (top) sprays water near the Senkaku islands(Japan)
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

:rotfl: holi hai holi

btw that japan boat packs a pretty impressive looking ciws type gun on the foredeck.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by bhavin »

Singha wrote::rotfl: holi hai holi

btw that japan boat packs a pretty impressive looking ciws type gun on the foredeck.
the above pictures give new meaning to "pissing contest" :rotfl:
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

Denmark is building a useful class of 6600t DDG called Ivar Huifeld class.

http://www.naval-technology.com/project ... ldt-class/

good kit of SMART-L + APAR + SM2 + ESSM.

the crew compartment looks like IKEA designed it with all beech wood veneers.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by karan_mc »

Vikramaditya Broke Down Due to Poland and British Equipment : Russian vice premier Dmitry Rogozin

Do Russians have any idea which part was defective ?? , first they blamed Ukraine , then chinese and now poland and British . every one but russians :rotfl:
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

the boiler fire bricks were chinese.
boilers themselves from ukraine.
the other eqpt which failed were polish and british like some hotel stuff.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by nakul »

Japan tech deal could help power our subs
AUSTRALIA is eyeing the use of Japanese technology to power its new submarine fleet under a weapons technology swap deal announced by the two countries this week.

Defence Minister Stephen Smith confirmed that hi-tech Japanese submarine propulsion systems were the kind of technology transfer that the deal -- the details of which are yet to be finalised -- might cover.

The agreement, announced in Tokyo, is the third pillar of a defence relationship that already features agreements to cross-service and supply each other's forces and to share intelligence.

In an interview with The Australian in Tokyo, Mr Smith said the proposed technology swap with Japan could also aid the Joint Strike Fighter project, and help bring down the cost of new defence purchases.

Australia is spending more than $200 million on deciding the best way to build or procure 12 submarines to replace the troubled Collins-class fleet, and the 4200-tonne Japanese subs have many attractive features.

In contrast to the Collins-class, Japan's new Soryu-class subs have a strong reputation, especially for their power-plant technology. The system allows them to recharge batteries without surfacing, dramatically boosting their subsurface range.


"Australia is now desperate for Japan's submarine technology," Jane's Defence Weekly's Tokyo-based analyst Kosuke Takahashi told The Australian.

The cost for the new submarines has been put at up to $40 billion and the government has committed to assembling them in Adelaide.

Mr Smith, who announced the transfer deal alongside Japanese Defence Minister Satoshi Morimoto, confirmed that submarine technology was mentioned in their bilateral meeting.

"We have had longstanding maintenance and sustainment challenges with the Collins-class," Mr Smith said. "They have expertise in non-nuclear subs in maintenance and sustainment. So, obviously, having a conversation with them is something that we have on the table."

The minister said Japan and Australia were both buying the Joint Strike Fighter and there might be opportunities to share technology to reduce costs on that big-budget project, too.

"We are going through a period of fiscal restraint, or difficulty, so doing things together, if you can, makes sense," he said.

The swap deal comes after Japan partially lifted its post-World War II prohibition on arms exports in a bid to boost export earnings and aid joint development of the missile shield it is developing with the US.

Although the weapons technology transfer deal comes while Japan is locked in a bitter territorial battle with an increasingly assertive China, Mr Smith said he didn't expect any backlash from Beijing over the agreement.

"We have been open and transparent about it and that's all any country can ask," he said. "There's nothing inconsistent with Australia's longstanding friendship and partnership with Japan, our military alliance with the United States and a comprehensive relationship with China.

"We don't have to make choices between those relationships. It's not a matter of a zero-sum game, it's win-win for all concerned."

Mr Smith also confirmed that Japanese Self-Defence Force soldiers may join upcoming disaster relief exercises on Australia soil, but said he did not expect any complaints from the public as Australia had moved on from World War II and "grown up dealing with the modern Japan".
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by member_23694 »

karan_mc wrote:Vikramaditya Broke Down Due to Poland and British Equipment : Russian vice premier Dmitry Rogozin

Do Russians have any idea which part was defective ?? , first they blamed Ukraine , then chinese and now poland and British . every one but russians :rotfl:
should we care for such excuses. We did not ask them to buy such sub-standard equipment.
And if they really want us to take such excuses seriously then we need to check each and every equipment bought from Russia since we
need to be sure as to, for how many defence equipements we have been provided sub-standard equipment and could affect our battle readiness
Austin
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Post by Austin »

US Navy Ships to Get Fuel from Seawater
US Navy often tests and commissions not only new weapons but also latest scientific achievements and technologies in order to gain maximum endurance of warships on long-term patrols. The new invention of the US Naval Research Laboratory is aimed at this goal. The new technology is based on the possibility to obtain fuel out of seawater with no need to call at ports for refueling.

As of today, American naval ships replenish fuel at sea with the help of special oilers carrying large amount of fuel. On the other hand, it is known that 2% of seawater is carbon dioxide as a solution of carbonic acid and other chemical compounds. Obviously, water contains hydrogen. Thus and so, seawater has all components needed for ship fuel, one should only develop technology to produce it at sea.

Scientists have found a method to obtain fuel by means of a catalyst like that used in the Fischer-Tropsch synthesis. This reaction is a basis for obtaining of synthetic gasoline out of coal. Improvement of this catalyst has increased efficiency of CO2 obtaining up to 60%.

The fuel-obtaining process consists of two stages. At first, carbon dioxide and hydrogen are extracted from seawater by electrochemical oxidation in a special installation. At the second phase, fuel is obtained by use of the compounds and two different catalysts based on ferrum and nickel.

It is noteworthy that the technology has successfully passed field tests. Scientists and technicians are working on its improvement and putting it into large-scale production. Approximate cost of such fuel will be $0.8-1.6 per liter, while traditional fuel produced from oil costs somewhat $0.87.
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Post by Austin »

Aircraft Carrier Killers - Malakhit, Bazalt, Granit, Oniks, Brahmos, Club-K

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-cm-f2JpiI
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by SaiK »

luckily, the masala dosa making machine from desh did not fail yet.
Singha
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

latest DDG51 ship named after fallen navy seal
http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nati ... l/1617373/

I await the day when we honour our heroes instead of pointing fingers after their death.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by wig »

a fascinating story of a british nuclear submarine clipping a towed sonar array from a soviet trawled in 1982

HMS Conqueror’s biggest secret: a raid on Russia The submarine that sank the Argentine cruiser General Belgrano during the Falklands war was involved in a much more daring and dangerous Cold War operation only weeks later
It was dark, in the early hours, and the sea was freezing as Her Majesty’s Submarine Conqueror came to periscope depth. Her captain, Christopher Wreford-Brown, had been stalking his target methodically, a hunter in pursuit of wary prey. There she was, 1,000 yards ahead, slow-moving, seemingly unaware of the submarine coming up on her tail. Gathered around Commander Wreford-Brown in the darkened operations room, officers and men waited in silence, inner tension masked by outward calm. It was 1982 and this was the real thing.

HMS Conqueror is famous, some would say notorious, for sinking the Argentinian cruiser General Belgrano. The nuclear-powered attack submarine, a type also known menacingly as a hunter-killer, that year became the first of her kind to fire in anger. The Belgrano was sent to bottom in short order, her ancient hull rent by two torpedoes: 323 men, many of them young conscripts, died. The Falklands war began in earnest that day, May 2 1982.

But the ship now in the crosswires was not the Belgrano. This was August, almost two months after the liberation of the Falklands, and on the other side of the world, in the Barents Sea, backyard of the mighty Soviet Northern Fleet. Conqueror was sailing as close to Russian territorial waters as was legally allowed – or maybe closer. Submariners, a tight-knit community, politely disdainful of their surface counterparts, joke that there are two types of naval vessel: submarines and targets. Wreford-Brown’s target was a spy trawler – an AGI in Nato parlance, meaning Auxiliary General Intelligence. Crammed with interception and detection equipment, they were a ubiquitous presence during the Cold War, shadowing Nato exercises or loitering off naval bases.

This one was special: Polish-flagged, she was pulling a device long coveted by the British and Americans, a two-mile string of hydrophones known as a towed-array sonar. It was the latest thing in Soviet submarine-detection technology and Conqueror’s job was to steal it. To do so, the bow was equipped with electronically controlled pincers, provided by the Americans, to gnaw through the three-inch-thick steel cable connecting it to the trawler. The name of this audacious exercise in piracy? Operation Barmaid.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... ussia.html
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

More details in this report:

Revealed for the first time: How HMS Conqueror submarine which sank the Belgrano was sent on spy ship interception mission just weeks later

HMS Conqueror was tasked with stealing a two-mile string of hydrophones from a Polish-flagged spy trawler
It didn't emit a signal and was designed to subtly listen to enemy submarines
The Anglo-Americans wanted to find out how the enemy had managed to develop it
The crew got perilously close to the trawler to cut through a three-inch-thick steel cable without being seen

By Emily Allen

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z298jj9qAh

Canadian naval officer spied for Russia.
http://www.euronews.com/newswires/16866 ... pying-cbc/
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by vishal »

Putting the great Russian rip-off in some more perspective

Excerpt: By investing a combined $6 billion in America and Tripoli, the Navy and Marines are betting that future warfare will involve more aerial combat and fewer potential beach assaults.
::
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These facilities allow America and her sister to operate, for days on end, as many as 30 fixed-wing planes.

Granted the Russians were the only ones who would sell us an aircraft carrier that fit the IN's doctrine. It would seem they were prescient on how much a brand new carrier would cost per example & they priced the Vik accordingly.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by nakul »

^^^

What's the cost of the F 35B? How will it face off against the more maneuvrible but less stealthy Mig 29K? It's all going to be nice and good if you have 11 carriers with F-18s for back up. India doen't have the same margin for error.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

Picture of Naval Scalp Launched from Submarine

http://www.mbda-systems.com/mediagaller ... EN-670.jpg
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by geeth »

should we care for such excuses. We did not ask them to buy such sub-standard equipment.
That indeed could be the case, particularly for a project like this. While the Boilers would be Original Equipmnt from Ukraine when the ship was built, other British /Polish etc stuff could be ones ordered with Indian approval or the Orders were placed by IN. I am not sure about Chinese. But IN has a knack of representing the majority of nations who has UN membership, while choosing equipments from different countries (may be to prove our Non-Alignment)

List could go like Italian Torpedoes, French LOG, British Sonar, American Satnav, Danish Wireless Set, Russian Arms, Japanese Steel, German DGs Spanish pumps.....and on and on.,
Austin
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

geeth wrote:List could go like Italian Torpedoes, French LOG, British Sonar, American Satnav, Danish Wireless Set, Russian Arms, Japanese Steel, German DGs Spanish pumps.....and on and on.,
IN is the best system integrator in the world even the best MNC would not be able integrate so many different and complex system from many OEM around the work and make it work as one coherent system.

I always wondered what is the logistics and Life Cycle Cost penalty does IN pay while managing such complex systems of systems.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Shrinivasan »

I think IN has worked out an excellent system. They have built a good vendor ecosystem, got their hand around the spares sitn, built an excellent yard network for repairs. Gradually they need to increase the indigenous content to become self sufficient.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

Philip
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Post by Philip »

With the IN's Arihant about a year behind operational schedule as the sub's eqpt. is fine tuned,being the very first of the series,take a look at Britain's much touted Astute SSGN class sub's woes,which have plagued the sub since its commissioning.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/nov/1 ... eaky-rusty

Slow, leaky, rusty: Britain's £10bn submarine beset by design flaws

Exclusive: Royal Navy's HMS Astute 'has a V8 engine with a Morris Minor gearbox'

Hunter-killer submarines were doomed from the start
ller submarines were doomed from the start
Nick Hopkins
The Guardian, Thursday 15 November 2012
HMS Astute
HMS Astute, the Royal Navy's nuclear hunter-killer submarine on the Firth of Clyde in Scotland. Photograph: Andy Buchanan/AFP/Getty Images

The Royal Navy's new multibillion pound hunter-killer submarine, HMS Astute, has been beset by design and construction flaws that have raised doubts about its performance and potential safety.

The Guardian can reveal that Astute, the first of seven new submarines costing £9.75bn, has been unable to reach its intended top speed.

At the moment, the boat, heralded as the most sophisticated submarine ever built for the navy, cannot sprint to emergencies or away from an attack – an essential requirement for a hunter-killer boat.

It would also be incapable of keeping pace with the Royal Navy's new aircraft carriers, which will be able to travel at more than 30 knots and need the submarines to protect them. One source told the Guardian the boat had a "V8 engine with a Morris Minor gearbox".

Other problems that have affected the boat in recent months include:

• Flooding during a routine dive that led to Astute performing an emergency surfacing.

• Corrosion even though the boat is essentially new.

• The replacement or moving of computer circuit boards because they did not meet safety standards.

• Concern over the instruments monitoring the nuclear reactor because the wrong type of lead was used.

• Questions being raised about the quality and installation of other pieces of equipment.

• Concern reported among some crew members about the Astute's pioneering periscope, that does not allow officers to look at the surface "live".

The MoD confirmed Astute had suffered some "teething problems" during sea trials. "It is normal for first of class trials to identify areas where modifications are required and these are then incorporated into later vessels of the class," a spokesman said.

Though the MoD said it cannot discuss the speed of submarines, the spokesman said Astute would "provide an outstanding capability for decades to come".

However, if the propulsion problems persist, they would represent one of the biggest procurement disasters the MoD has ever had to deal with, and potentially leave the Astute fleet struggling to perform all the duties it was built for.

John Large, an independent nuclear safety analyst and specialist engineer, said: "These problems are much more significant than the niggles and glitches expected to arise during working up of a new class of nuclear-powered submarine. Particularly disturbing is the apparent mismatch between the nuclear reactor plant and the steam turbine sets, putting the submarine speed below par and making her susceptible in the anti-submarine warfare theatre."

The shadow defence secretary, Jim Murphy, said ministers "must be clear over the impact of any problems with this essential programme on timing and cost".

Even though the boat has yet to start formal service, Astute – four years overdue and £2bn over budget – has been surrounded by controversy since it was first commissioned 15 years ago. In 2010, it was marooned off Skye, a calamity that led to its commander being removed from post. Last year a senior officer was shot dead by a junior member of the crew.

The Guardian has learned that during exercises off the east coast of the United States, a cap on one of the pipes that takes seawater from the back of the submarine to the reactor sprang a leak. A compartment began flooding with seawater, forcing the commander to surface immediately. Though nobody was hurt, an investigation revealed a cap was made from the wrong metal, even though construction records said the right metal had been installed.

The cap was supposed to have been "level one quality assurance". This means that BAE, which is responsible for building the boat, is supposed to give it the highest scrutiny.

"The fact the cap failed is bad enough, but the most worrying thing is that there is no way of knowing whether the submarine has other pieces of equipment like this on board," said a source. "The quality assurance tests are there to make sure this kind of thing doesn't happen, but it did. So what else has been installed that we don't know about? It is impossible to know. They fitted the wrong cap but it was still signed off."

The MoD confirmed that the incident had taken place. "During trials last year HMS Astute experienced a leak which was immediately isolated and the submarine returned safely to the surface," a spokesman said. "An investigation found one small part which had not been made of the correct material had corroded. A replacement was fitted at sea and the submarine continued with her programme. BAE Systems have carried out a full assessment which concluded all similar parts were fitted correctly."

Neither the MoD nor BAE was prepared to discuss how a cap made from the wrong metal had been fitted. BAE also declined to explain how it could be sure other parts were installed correctly when the quality assurance inventory system was proved to be flawed.

Some of the instruments which tell commanders about the state of the nuclear reactor were also feared compromised, the Guardian can reveal. The detectors which measure the power coming from the reactor are in a lead-lined water jacket that surrounds the reactor core.

The lead has to be "virgin" metal, mined from great depth, so that it does not carry any electrical charge of its own that could generate a false reading.

However, the lead used in Astute was not of the right quality, which means instruments gave incorrect readings. Using impure lead can also have a knock-on effect during maintenance – the charged metal can create increased and persistent radioactivity within the reactor compartment.

A source said this oversight was "unforgivable". Initially the MoD denied there was a problem with the reactor instruments. However, it then conceded the wrong lead had been used – but insisted tests showed the accuracy of the readings had not been affected. In addition, some of the small computer switchboards on Astute should have been placed six inches apart, but they were only one inch apart.

They did not conform to either naval or Lloyds civilian safety standards and are now having to be moved or replaced. The MoD says this work has been completed.

Of all the difficulties, it is the problems with propulsion which are the most sensitive. The MoD stated Astute would be able to make 29 knots, but the Guardian has been told it cannot do this.

Rather than building a new power plant for Astute, the MoD chose to use the Pressurised Water Reactor 2 (PWR2) from the much bigger Vanguard-class Trident submarines. It was linked to a steam turbine system based on the model used in the aged Trafalgar Class attack submarines.

"This was always likely to be a big problem, and so it has proved," said a source. "The PWR2 was meant for a much bigger boat, and Astute had to be designed around it. That may have cut costs, but it has caused problems. The power from the reactor does not translate into forward movement."

Large added: "So much promise was held out for the Astute class of nuclear powered submarine but these faults occurring during its commissioning into active/service, particularly in the propulsion system and its under-performance, suggest that the whole has been cobbled together from some ill-fitting parts – the real concern here is that these or similar mismatches will compromise nuclear safety at risk to crews and the public generally."

BAE Systems, which is responsible for building the Astute fleet, said: "Safety is of paramount importance to every stage of the design, build, test and trials of a submarine and is at the heart of everything we do. Before entering full service, every submarine is required to complete an exhaustive period of sea trials, which are designed to prove the vessel's capabilities. These trials also present an opportunity to improve performance by resolving any issues that may come to light during this time, which is not uncommon on a first-of-class submarine."

Read more: why Astute was trouble from the start
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2012/nov/1 ... g-mod-memo

Submarine corrosion caused by cost-cutting, says leaked MoD memo

Senior Ministry of Defence analyst says corrosion on new fleet of hunter-killer submarines is 'cause for major concern'
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

does anyone follow the french language media to see how they fare with their ship/sub projects? eng, rus, aus, usa, germany all seem to have their issues with new projects ranging from huge cost overruns to technical problems.
Last edited by Singha on 17 Nov 2012 19:32, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Brando »

vishal wrote:
Granted the Russians were the only ones who would sell us an aircraft carrier that fit the IN's doctrine. It would seem they were prescient on how much a brand new carrier would cost per example & they priced the Vik accordingly.
You are seriously going to compare a brand new design built from scratch in an American shipyard with American safety and quality codes with a refurbished Soviet wreck slapped together into an aircraft carrier ??

Dollars to donuts the America and the Tripoli delivery much more operational value to the USN and the USMC than the Vic.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

The above post on the Astute SSN class of the RN and its huge design and build quality problems show that even with the best of the western shipyards,problems do show up.The French had years of problems with the CDG,from reactor to propulsion defects and British built frigates/corvettes too for export were found below acceptable standard.OZ's Collins class subs have been the most expensive subs ever built...that have been a dismal failure.The US too has had its share of problems with some of its subs ,flaws less advertised,and we all know about the woes of the JSF!

The problem is that warships and subs these days are becoming so sophisticated ,more automated and thus more prone to failure.The closure of experienced shipyards too in downsized defence budgets has added to the problem.It is why the venerable Kilo class sub is still in production in Russia for the Russian navy and for export in upgraded versions,because of its cost,simplicity and reliability.The newer Amur/Lada diesel sub has taken a decade to iron out its defects and will appear with a new AIP system later in the decade.

Take the huge 4 year delay with building Scorpenes for the IN at MDL.We stopped building German U-boats after assembling two in the 80s and lost the art of building subs.It has been a very costly and time consuming art of learning he art again and we still have to wait before the first sub is launched perhaps in 2015 ,undergoes its sea trials for a year before we can pass judgement.The ATV/Arihant is still undergoing sea trials in a cloud of secrecy with the second yet to be integrated with its reactor section from reports,waiting for the first ATV to pass its "exams".
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