International Naval News & Discussion

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Austin
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

corvette "L'Adrua" looks pretty

France began testing the first corvette project "Govind"

Image
French shipbuilding company DCNS has started sea trials of corvette "L'Adrua" lead ship of the project "Govind," according to Defense Aerospace. Corvette checks began 14 months after the start of construction ship. Sea trials will be conducted in two phases, the first of which will test the fire suppression systems, zataplivaniya and some others, while the second – propulsion and driving performance, "L'Adrua." The trial involved 50 technicians, DCNS. After completion of the first sea trials, the corvette, "L'Adrua" returns to the dock, where it will complete its completion and painting done. As expected, the ship will be completed in late 2011. Presumably at the same time "L'Adrua" will be handed over to the French Navy, which will test the ship in combat use. "L'Adrua" in length and width of 87 meters 13 meters capable of speeds up to 21 knots and range of its stroke is eight thousand nautical miles. Corvette design provides accommodation in its deck of unmanned aerial vehicles and anti-helicopter. The structure of weapons corvette project "Govind" may include anti-aircraft missile launchers of various types, anti-ship cruise missiles and machine guns. DCNS plans to produce a class corvettes "Govind" different types "Govind-120", "Govind-170" and "Govind-200." Between a ship will be different sizes and types of weapons.
Philip
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

Govind or is it "Gowind"? class corvettes are quite interestingly designed.Like the MEKO class of FFGs,modularity could produce different sizes to cater to diff. requirements.However,French stealth frigates/vessels come very expensive.These vessels are mainly meant for the littorals.To give you an example of costs,the USN's much touted frigates for the littoral warfare which were estimated initially as costing $200m,are now costing at least $500m per ship! For that price one might get an Akula-2 on lease for 10 years! Indian warships come in at around 1/3rd to 1/2 the cost of a similar warship if built in a western yard.I think that the cost of the second batch of Talwars would be a good indicator of the best price if built abroad.As someone quoted recently on the Forum,quoting a former CNS on the Gorky's addl. costs,"where would you get a carrioer of such size for just $2billion ( I am not sure if I got the figure right though,it may be less/more as I can't remember the final price agreed upon between the builders and IN) ?"

Unless private yards are encouraged to build not just "bumboats",by that I mean mere patrol craft,but capital ships and subs too,the inefficiency of existing Indian yards (delays),which have no competition,will remain.Here babudom has to be tamed first in order that our private yards built at great cost like L&Ts north of Madras ,get sufficient orders,both in numbers and with the assurance of continuous orders.This way,the bulk of the IN's requirements will be met locally,with design collaboration from foreign yards and certain sensors and weapon systems that we are unable to produce or do not have JVs for,the main outside input.
Gerard
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Gerard »

Rumors Circulate About Radiation Leak by Chinese Sub
Rumors are spreading quickly that radioactive materials were accidentally leaked from a state-of-the-art Chinese nuclear submarine moored in Dalian Port in Liaoning Province in the northeastern part of China.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Gerard »

http://atimes.com/atimes/China/MH03Ad01.html
China's manned submersible Jiaolong, named after a sea dragon from folklore, is engineered to dive to an unprecedented 7 kilometers - setting a highly creditable new low for the depths to which humans can sink.
China, which started project Jiaolong in 2002, is the fifth country to send a manned vehicle over 3,500 meters below sea level, following the United States, Russia, France and Japan - maybe further ensuring that it's a question of when not if schoolchildren will get acquainted with Isaac Newton and Pythagoras in class rooms six kilometers beneath the sea.
KuleshovOleg
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by KuleshovOleg »

where section - photos of the Navy ?
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sanjeevpunj
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by sanjeevpunj »

Woman to run warship for first time in Britain

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London: A woman will command a warship for the first time in Britain's 500-year-old naval history, a media report said on Monday.
Thirty-nine-year-old Lieutenant Commander Sarah West will take control of the Type 23 frigate HMS Portland. The vessel has 185 crew members, mostly male.
HMS Portland boasts of Harpoon and Sea Wolf missile systems and Sting-ray anti-submarine torpedoes, among others. The 5,000-tonne ship, with a top speed 30 knots, also carries a helicopter and can engage in "total warfare".

Read more at: http://www.ndtv.com/article/world/woman ... ain-125233
Gerard
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Gerard »

Decoding China’s Aircraft Carrier
When is an aircraft carrier not an aircraft carrier? The answer could be: when it is Chinese.

The first aircraft carrier in People’s Liberation Army Navy’s (PLAN’s) history, which began sea trials earlier this week and churned up no shortage of media conjecture as it got underway, has to be understood on two different levels: the symbolic and the purposive.
Indranil
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Indranil »

Should India sap up as many as possible:

Buy aircraft carrier for just Pound 3.5 million

P.S. Not the AC, but what about the rest as stop gaps till the required numbers come online?
Last edited by Indranil on 16 Aug 2011 09:25, edited 1 time in total.
Singha
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

the Gowind design has a relatively small footprint but tall superstructure and a fairly massive foredeck and helicopter area for a ship thats only 87m long - half the length of the delhi class.

but top speed of only 21 knots means it cannot keep up with proper FFG/DDG/carriers in a strike group and is more like a 'escort/patrol/picket' ship either operating alone or with similar slow ships or escorting merchant ships.

looks like it can offload FFG from routine maritime patrol, anti piracy and escort duty...kind of between a CG OPV and a proper FFG.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by VinodTK »

Buy aircraft carrier for just Pound 3.5 million
LONDON: Cash-strapped Britain is putting an aircraft carrier, warships, helicopters as well as battle fortified Land Rovers on the market for a song.

Under an almost distress sale to plug a gaping £36 billion hole in the ministry of defence's budget, the price of the aircraft carrier HMS Ark Royal built at a cost of £200 million has dipped to a ridiculous level of £3.5 million.
Also on offer at almost throwaway prices are Type 22 frigates costing £400 million each at £300,000, destroyers at just a million pounds, the Daily Mail reported quoting senior officials.

It's not only the naval weaponry that is up for grabs, but also the 13 gazelle helicopters which cost almost five million to build apiece are being sold at just £100,000.

Senior military officers are said to be furious at the sell-offs, which they claim are giving away quality defence equipment while the forces need everything they can get.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

Amazing story of perhapos the world's worst naval goof-up in history,kept secret by the British/RN for almost a century! Read the entire story in the link,its unbelievable,even Hollywood couldn't come up with such a scipt.

http://heritage.caledonianmercury.com/2 ... -on/002973

It was a “battle” that involved no enemy contact whatsoever, that left two submarines sunk, 270 British submariners dead and which the Royal Navy kept secret for as long as it could. But now new evidence has emerged that sheds fresh light on the “Battle of the Isle of May”.

Marine surveyors mapping the sea bed off the Fife coast have uncovered the exact resting places of the two Royal Navy submarines lost in one of the most unfortunate, but also little known, self-inflicted calamities in British naval history.
The calamity happened on the night of 31 January 1918 when a battle group from the British Grand Fleet, including 19 major warships and their destroyer escorts, headed out from Rosyth for a rendezvous in the North Sea.

It was a foggy night and two of the submarines collided on the surface after one moved suddenly to avoid hitting a minesweeper.

Unable to move, one of the damaged boats was then hit by another submarine, forcing all of these submarines to leave the convoy and head for home. It was then that one of the returning submarines, K22, was rammed by mistake by a battlecruiser – HMS Inflexible.

By that time, news of the collisions had reached leaders of the flotilla and several ships were sent to help. Unfortunately, this turned an accident into a disaster.
One of the ships heading back to help, the cruiser HMS Fearless, rammed K17, sending it to the bottom within eight minutes – although most of the crew managed to escape before it went down.

With Fearless stationary, the submarines behind it took evasive action to avoid hitting the cruiser. It was then that two of the submarines, K6 and K7, hit K4, sinking it almost immediately.

Unaware of what was happened in the sea around them, the ships of the 5th Battle Squadron ploughed on into the North Sea, right through the submariners who had managed to escape before their boats went to the bottom, killing most of them.

In an incident which had taken just over 90 minutes from start to finish, 270 men had lost their lives. Indeed, only eight men from K17 survived, while there were no survivors from K4.

As a result of this series of mishaps, the Royal Navy had lost two submarines while another four and one cruiser had been so badly damaged they had to return to base.

The accident was kept secret for the rest of the war, but a memorial cairn was eventually erected in the Fife coastal village of Anstruther 84 years later, on 31 January 2002, on the harbour opposite the Isle of May
sum
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by sum »

^^ Sounds like some B-grade comedy movie climaxes which they show!!!

Truely amazing stuff....
John
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by John »

Singha wrote:the Gowind design has a relatively small footprint but tall superstructure and a fairly massive foredeck and helicopter area for a ship thats only 87m long - half the length of the delhi class.

but top speed of only 21 knots means it cannot keep up with proper FFG/DDG/carriers in a strike group and is more like a 'escort/patrol/picket' ship either operating alone or with similar slow ships or escorting merchant ships.

looks like it can offload FFG from routine maritime patrol, anti piracy and escort duty...kind of between a CG OPV and a proper FFG.
Singha,

CVN/De Gaulle are the only ships that can even maintain a sustain speed of 25+ knots. So it will definitely be able to move with strike group, its lack of high speed is only going to affect its interdiction abilities.

Anyway it is interesting design the corvette model looks pretty impressive.

GoWind Corvette
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

Perhaps the world's worst sub programme in history,the OZ Collins class ,Swedish designed and much modified including by the US,has been plagued with so many problems that in the last few years barely one or two have been operational.DEscribed as noisier than an "underwater rock concert",the Collins class has suffered from eprennila engine failure generator problems,manning shortages,and others ad nauseum.The US tried to replace the combat system and added a "tusk" to the sail to reduce noise too.ow another Collins sub has been forced to surface after another bout of engine problems.
'
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/nationa ... 6121581109

Collins-class submarine forced to surface after engine failure EXCLUSIVE: Brendan Nicholson From: The Australian August 25, 2011

ONE of the navy's troubled Collins-class submarines suffered an engine failure while submerged off Western Australia late at night and was forced to surface.

Xcpt:
The submarine, with a crew of 60, was at periscope depth at the time of the incident and running on its electric motor.

An Australian Defence Force spokeswoman confirmed last night that HMAS Farncomb's propulsion system failed at about 12.30am on Tuesday and the submarine surfaced to investigate.

The spokeswoman said the submarine always had the capacity to manoeuvre using its emergency propulsion unit, which was independent of the electric motor and was manned throughout the incident.

"In this instance, the commanding officer chose to surface to investigate the fault on the control system for the electric motor," she said. "Soon after surfacing, propulsion was restored." It was standard safety procedure to surface when the motor was not restarted within a given time.

"The incident was handled competently by the crew, who ensured positive control of the submarine throughout the incident," she said.

...The problem arose as Defence Minister Stephen Smith called in a top British naval expert to find out why maintenance problems in the six Collins-class submarines have kept so many of them in dock.

Yesterday, Mr Smith released the terms of reference for a new review of the troubled fleet's maintenance regime.

The review will be carried out by John Coles from BMT Defence Services in Britain.

Mr Smith said Mr Coles had more than 30 years' experience in the design and sustainment of ships and submarines.

The minister has warned previously that he wants problems with the Collins fleet sorted out before work could begin on plans for 12 replacement "future submarines".
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

Australian MoD responds to Criticisms of MU90 Torpedo Project

The French and italians have not translated the documents into english as per the newspapers.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

battle on for Indonesian sub contract.Both SoKo and a Turko-German alliance are batttling each other to win a contrac for the supply of at least 2 German dsign U-boats for the Indonesian navy.Here are the details:

http://www.koreaherald.com/national/Det ... 0826000596
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Post by Philip »

http://www.barentsobserver.com/succesfu ... 58932.html

Succesful Bulava launch at maximum flight range
2011-08-29

Russia has conducted another successful test-launch of its newest intercontinental ballistic missile Bulava. The missile went maximum distance and reached its target in the Pacific Ocean.
The success will be a major boost for the Russian armed forces after a similar successful test from Yury Dolgoruky on June 28. The Bulava had become one of the Russian military's biggest headaches after a series of failed tests in previous years raised questions about its future viability.

Russia has now carried out 16 tests of the Bulava, seven of which ended in failure. The most embarrassing setback was in late 2009 when the missile's failure caused spectacular images in the sky above the Northern Norway.

After the first test-launch of a Bulava missile from "Yury Dolgoruky" it was said that also the second submarine in the Borey-class, the “Aleksander Nevsky” would conduct a test launch later this year. Later a Defence Ministry official said that there will be no test-shooting of the missile from “Aleksander Nevsky” this year. The submarine is undergoing factory testing at Sevmash and missile tests will not take place until spring 2012, BarentsObserver reported.
http://www.barentsobserver.com/index.ph ... &noredir=1

Russia to get 8 nuclear attacks subs by 2020
2011-08-10

The Russian Navy will receive at least eight Graney class nuclear-powered attack submarines in the next decade. The first of these multipurpose attack submarines will start sea trials in August and enter service within the end of the year.
Philip
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

S.African-German co. developing new NHPP scope for clients.

http://www.engineeringnews.co.za/articl ... 2011-09-08
By: Keith Campbell
8th September 2011

South African defence company Carl Zeiss Optronics, which is 70% owned by the German Carl Zeiss group and 30% by South African State-owned defence industrial group Denel, is busy developing a new submarine periscope for an overseas customer.

“The new periscope development programme was launched this year,” revealed Carl Zeiss Optronics MD Kobus Viljoen on Thursday. The company is investing R30-million in the new periscope.

“Design will be immediately followed by production,” he reported. “We have a contract for the new periscope. This production contract is worth at least R70-million.”

The Carl Zeiss group has decided that its South African subsidiary will be its global centre of excellence for hull-penetrating submarine periscopes (the traditional kind, seen in many war films) while Germany will be the centre of excellence for non-hull-penetrating optronic masts, which are a more recent alternative to traditional periscopes.

“We see a good market for these new periscopes,” affirmed Viljoen. “Most conventional submarines have one of each – one hull-penetrating and one non-hull-penetrating.”

The capabilities and clarity of hull-penetrating, optical periscopes (which use lenses, mirrors and prisms) have increased greatly over the years and they can now also incorporate infrared and/or night vision and optronic imager systems.

Virtually all of the periscope is made in South Africa. Carl Zeiss Optronics makes all the optical components, cutting and polishing them from imported glass blanks, and all the optomechanical parts. The electronic systems are designed by the local company but their manufacture is subcontracted out to other South African enterprises.

Only the metal tubes for the periscope are imported, from Germany. These have to be made of a special alloy that can resist sea water corrosion for 30 years and withstand the significant stresses encountered during operations. These tubes also have to be precisely aligned to very fine tolerances, so that they do not degrade the periscope’s optical pathways in any way.

Carl Zeiss Optronics receives its orders via its German parent company. The local business sends its completed periscopes to its parent in Germany, which then hands them over to the shipyard building the submarines. The shipyard fits the periscopes and hands the completed submarine over to the customer.

Thursday saw the official opening of Carl Zeiss Optronics’ new manufacturing facility at the Denel campus in Irene, Centurion, just south of Pretoria. This modern new facility replaces an older one in Kempton Park, east of Johannesburg, and allows the company to concentrate on one site, so reducing costs.

The new facility will allow the company to build between four and six periscopes annually. It was opened by the Chief of Naval Staff, Rear Admiral Rusty Higgs.
PS:What scopes are the Scorpenes coming with anyone? Are they going to be NHPP scopes? latest US subs are so advanced with fibre-optics that the commander can operate the sub from his console in his cabin !
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Austin »

Russia creates a brand new engine for submarines - CDB "Rubin"
MOSCOW, September 13 - RIA Novosti. Central Design Bureau for Marine Engineering (CDB ME) "Ruby" conducts bench tests airindependent power plant (AIP) with electrochemical generator for submarines, told RIA Novosti on Tuesday, General Director of CDB ME "Rubin" Andrei Dyachkov.

Earlier, a senior Russian Navy chief of staff told RIA Novosti that Russia intends to build a boat in the future with a radically new power plant. Now all of Russia's NNS run on diesel engines.

"In order to meet all the requirements of modern foreign market, CDB ME" Rubin "airindependent power plant designs. Now is working off of the bench of the sample set of this type," - said.

Dyachkov explained the principle of operation of such plants: production of hydrogen directly on board a submarine is done by refining diesel fuel.

He noted that in the process of creating AIP each country, where non-nuclear submarines are built, and went his own way. Thus, the basis of the German steel electrochemical generator installation and intermetallic hydrogen storage. The Swedes have chosen to create a facility based on a Stirling engine. And the French have created their own set MESMA (Module d'Energie Sous-Marine Autonome) on the basis of the turbine in a closed cycle, using ethanol and liquid oxygen.

"An analysis of papers on this topic, we have the following conclusion: AIP must not only ensure long finding a boat in a submerged position, while maintaining secrecy and be safe enough," - said the head of CDB ME "Rubin".

According to him, the German version is not secure at least because it is based on storing hydrogen on board the boat, and it is very inflammable and explosive. The path that the French and the Swedes prefer, too has a drawback. "As part of the installation there are mechanical parts, which are an additional source of noise. But the submarine has to be, above all, a secretive," - said Dyachkov.

As a result, "Rubin", he said, its direction of motion of picked an electrochemical generator.

"In this case there are no moving parts, which is good in terms of stealth. In contrast to the German version, we avoid storing hydrogen on board, because it requires a coastal infrastructure and complex systems on board" - said Dyachkov.

He reported that AIP will be installed in modular bay boats. It does not require significant rework and redesign the whole boat as a whole, the difference will be in the sidebar of additional cover.

In addition, said Dyachkov, recent customers keen interest in the lithium-ion batteries.

"Offered to the market lithium-ion batteries allow you to extend the time for finding a boat under the water for at least 1.4 times, but the potential is very technical ideas used so far only by 35-40%," - said.

According to him, "Rubin" is now working to improve lithium-ion batteries to increase the capacity and, consequently, the time spent underwater diesel submarine. "This is a very promising direction," - said Dyachkov.

He also said that France and Germany have also started to develop and create new projects without AIP submarines. We are talking about French and German project Andrasta project 210mod.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

http://www.barentsobserver.com/maiden-v ... 58932.html
The 120 metre long multi-armed nuclear powered submarine Severodvinsk ready to sail the White Sea.
Photo: Military-Today.com

The submarine, named "Severodvinsk", has world-record in construction delays. The first welding work with the hull started back in December 1993 following blueprints and drawings that still had the USSR-stamps. According to the first plans, the submarine was to be launched in 1995 and commissioned for the navy in 1998.

The submarine however went on its first sea trails Monday this week. The short press-release posted by the Sevmash construction yard reads that the submarine at this voyage will carry out her first sea trails.

If the sea trails are successful, "Severodvinsk" is expected to enter service with the navy by the end of this year, as previously reported by BarentsObserver.

"Severodvinsk" is the first of Russia’s new fourth generation multi-purpose submarines of the Graney-class. The submarine is the most heavily multi-armed submarine put to sea since the Oscar-II class. While the Oscar-II class, like the ill-fated Kursk submarine, can carry cruise-missiles with a limited range, the new Graney-class carries a variety of long-range cruise missiles. The new missiles is by RIA Novosti said to have a range of up to 5,000 kilometres. Due to the missiles long-range, the submarine is rather to be categorized as a sub-strategic weapon than a traditional attack submarine.

The press-note posted at the portal of Sevmash says nothing about any weapon tests at this week’s first sea trails of "Severodvinsk."

Fully armed, the submarine can carry 24 cruise missiles and eight torpedo launchers. The cruise missiles onboard can be both tipped with conventional warheads or nuclear warheads.

Read also: Submarines can be armed with tactical nuclear weapons

The 120 metre long hull is made of low magnetic steel and the submarine is powered by a single-reactor. The submarine is by Voice of Russia said to have a maximum diving depth of 600 metre.

The second of the Graney-class submarine, named "Kazan", is currently under construction at Sevmash and another eight of the class is said to be built before 2020.
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by tsarkar »

Philip wrote:PS:What scopes are the Scorpenes coming with anyone? Are they going to be NHPP scopes?
Calzoni, subsidiary of Kollmorgen http://www.calzoni.com/company
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by chackojoseph »

Philip
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

Tx.Tsarkar. I'm sure the Canadians and the land of Oz will hotly contest for the title of running the worst sub fleet of any navy! The Upholders and Collins class are "even-stevens" when it comes to seaworthiness! However,the Canadians have had to make do with ex-RN subs while the land of Oz had their brand new Collins class to ruin. The problems these two navies have with their westernb dsigned and built subs reminds me of the story of an RN submariner sneering at the insides of a Russian Kilo and lack of automation.Most Russian diesel subs supposedly use automation mainly in emergencies and are far tougher than western subs,a fact now being proven wiht the Canadian and Oz sub woes.


Opinion: How not to run a navy: Canada’s sub-par submarines
13 years of big repair bills later, none is fully operational

Xcpt:
When Britain held a scratch-and-dent sale in 1998 to get rid of some surplus submarines, Canada went shopping. Our 30-year-old fleet was long past its prime and Ottawa wasn’t ready to commit to the cost of new ones.

That was 13 years ago. The deal seemed too good to turn down at the start: Just $750 million for an eight-year lease/purchase — about a quarter of the estimated replacement value — for four barely-used diesel-electric submarines that had been mothballed only because Britain had moved to an all-nuclear fleet.

The original price was broken down as $610 million for the submarines, training simulators, initial spare parts and crew training. Another $140 million was budgeted for Canadian modification, project management, relocation and contingencies. Or, as former premier NDP premier Glen Clark once said of the fast ferries, the all-in price right down to the toilet paper.

As with B.C.’s infamous FastCats, “budget” turned out to be too strong a word to use for the cost as originally announced. “Pipe dream” might have been closer to the mark.

As with a lot of cool stuff we bring home from yard sales, it didn’t take long for the deal to seem a little less of a bargain. Within a year, the National Post was reporting that hidden costs and a wish list for upgrades had pushed the real tab for the four used subs to somewhere in the neighbourhood of $2 billion.

While the cost was turning out to be more than expected, the subs turned out to be a lot less. Some of the blemishes were more than just cosmetic. By 2002, delays, new problems and cost overruns were mounting to the point that some critics were already calling for the deal to be scuttled, since it looked then as though six of the eight years of the original lease period would have passed by the time the aging vessels were finally ready for duty.

That was nine years ago. That was before a fire on HMCS Chicoutimi during its maiden voyage as a Canadian vessel in 2004 killed one sailor and prompted the navy to dock the rest.

This week another fire, this one less serious, broke out in a radio tower on HMCS Victoria while it was docked at the Esquimalt naval base. Victoria recently completed a five-year, $195-million refit and is as close as we have at the moment to an operational submarine.

HMCS Corner Brook was seaworthy until it hit bottom while on a training run in Nootka Sound on the west coast of Vancouver Island this summer. It is now out for a refit that isn’t scheduled to be finished until 2016.

HMCS Windsor, now undergoing a refit in Halifax, is expected to be operational next year, but Canadian Press reported earlier this year that it has issues with rusting that may restrict how deep it is able to dive.

Through all of this, the navy has maintained that the submarines were a good deal and that they will eventually be an important part of the defence of Canada. This, after a period longer than both world wars during which they have rarely been available for service.

The navy now says that our submarine fleet will be at operational strength — that is, with three of the four submarines in operation — in 2013, or 15 years after we bought them.

I asked the navy for the total costs to date, but was told that since the refits are still in progress, they don’t know the numbers.

Two things are clear, however. First, whatever it was that we may have needed these submarines for in the past 13 years, we have been able to do without. Meanwhile, the hundreds of millions of dollars that continue to be spent on these seagoing lemons has not been available for conventional coastal patrol craft or the long-promised icebreakers that could have been built here.

Second, whatever promises are made about future performance should be taken in light of the abysmal record to date. In other words, they are not credible.

The bottom line is that 13 years and hundreds of millions of dollars later, we have zero submarines that are fully operational. None.

Read more: http://www.vancouversun.com/Opinion+nav ... z1YIqMaKje
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by koti »

Does anyone think we can pull off a Trenton in this?
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =AME&s=SEA
Singha
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

too costly for us to operate (we would barely afford all the 90 planes needed to fill her airwing out incl E2), we have no spare SSNs for escort duty, no pier that big, no dock that large to repair, ... its just out of our league for now.

btw I believe the USN will have to draw down to a 8 carrier force to save funds...how and when that is messaged and dragged through oppn is onlee a matter of time and political marketing. 8 CVNs will still permit a powerful strike force of around 5 on the sea, assuming 3 in training/refit any given time. these could focus on east pacific and middle east. there is no threat that needs CVN in the atlantic ocean or indian ocean.

for H&D reasons 2-3/11 could be kept in mothballs but actively looked after in a state of higher readiness than usual but lean manned and with no airwing.
koti
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by koti »

Yes it is. But it can be quite an addition around 2020. It is worth around 4.5 billion when it came in. We can get it at a cheaper price since it will be second hand. The air arm is not that unaffordable as it may seem IMO. Having a force of around 80 fighters should not be a big deal by then if we can plan it from now on. And we could be very well operating 3 Nuclear subs by that time. The Scorpenes would have arrived and the second line of subs being inducted. So providing a continuous presence of one to two subs in the CBG should not be as much a problem either.

I was just feeling funny at the idea that we can have an airbase anywhere in the IOR that is bigger then our current biggest airbase at Jodhpur.(100 fighters vs 130 full complement for the A/C).
chaanakya
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by chaanakya »

Admiral Gorshkov coming to India by December 2012-AKA
Cosmo_R
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Cosmo_R »

koti wrote:Does anyone think we can pull off a Trenton in this?
http://www.defensenews.com/story.php?i= ... =AME&s=SEA
Maybe a wet lease? :)
Philip
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

Incredible! The Oz Collins class conventional non-AIP subs are the most expensive ever to have gone to sea!

/more-news/collins-class-submarines-most-expensive-ever-to-go-to-sea/story-fn7x8me2-1226167908219

Xcpts:
AUSTRALIA'S troubled Collins Class submarines are more than twice as expensive to operate as US Navy nuclear submarines that are more than three times bigger.
Figures obtained by the Herald Sun, show the six Collins subs cost about $630 million a year - or $105 million each - to maintain, making them the most expensive submarines ever to put to sea.

Only two of the fleet of six could go to war at the moment.

The annual price for "sustainment" (maintenance and support) is $415.9 million for 2011-12 with operating costs running at $213.4 million for the year, for a total of $629.3 million.

A US Navy Ohio Class nuclear attack submarine - more than three times the size of a Collins boat - costs about $50 million a year to operate.

The cost figures are revealed as Defence officials say at least two possible contenders for the navy's new submarine fleet - the Spanish S-80 and French-Spanish Scorpene class boat - have been ruled out of the future submarine project.

In 2008, embarrassed navy brass stopped reporting on the performance of the Collins fleet in the Defence annual report.

The 2007-08 performance outcome for the Collins fleet showed it achieved 64 per cent of its mission capability, or 559 days of actual availability.

Since then the figures have been classified "secret", but assuming a similar outcome, then sustaining the subs now costs taxpayers $1,643,835 a day for all six vessels.

With only two or three available for duty, that cost blows out to more than $500,000 a day.

Sustainment costs are forecast to be $443 million this year. Since 2004, the costs have more than doubled from $204 million.

Opposition defence spokesman Senator David Johnston accused the Government and Defence Minister Stephen Smith of taking their eye off the ball when it came to the submarines.

Mr Smith said the Government was being careful about plans for 12 new submarines because 80 per cent of problems with the Collins could be traced back to mistakes in the planning stage.

Singha
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Singha »

yeah and inspite of all this they still claim as wanting to build their own subs.

they'd be better off getting navantia or HDW or DCN to build them a large SSK based off a existing design.

ie unless they want to go nuclear - their govt has the cash off mining export profits, US will provide a reactor and propulsion system, and they can mine their own uranium.
Philip
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Re: International Naval News and Discussion

Post by Philip »

Amazing discovery of two ships of that legendary Elizebethan buccaneer,Sir Francis Drake,who "singed the beard of the king of Spain" ,and the possible discovery of his coffin.Drake was also famous for being only the second sailor to have cirumnavigated the globe between 15157-60.Great tale,read the link.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldne ... anama.html
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