INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 20 Jun 2014 20:49

bo5 test firing from arihant is a great news!

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 08 Jul 2014 17:54

X-Post

Nuclear triad weapons ready for deployment: DRDO
http://www.ptinews.com/news/4893779_Nuc ... -DRDO.html

New Delhi, Jul 7 (PTI) The weapons systems for the country's nuclear triad, including submarine-launched ballistic missiles, are "fully ready" for deployment, DRDO chief Avinash Chander said today.

Addressing a gathering at an IDSA event, he said the nuclear reactor on board the indigenously-developed INS Arihant nuclear submarine is also critical and is running on its "full power" before it is launched for sea trials.

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/lvVxsu ... ource=copy

New Delhi: The weapons systems for the country’s nuclear triad, including submarine-launched ballistic missiles, are “fully ready” for deployment, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) chief Avinash Chander said on Monday.

Addressing a gathering at an event, he said the nuclear reactor on board the indigenously-developed INS Arihant nuclear submarine is also critical and is running on its “full power” before it is launched for sea trials.

The weapons for the nuclear triad are “either fully developed or are ready to be deployed,” Chander said. The nuclear triad is the capability to launch a nuclear weapon from sea, air and land. India will complete it once the Arihant is operational giving it the option to retaliate to nuclear strike through submarine-launched BO-5 missiles. The Arihant is expected to be launched for sea trials in next few months.

The Agni series missiles can be used to carry out attacks from land while some of the Indian Air Force airrcraft are also capable of launching nuclear attacks. The DRDO completed the development of the over 700km-range BO-5 missiles recently and they would be fired from the Arihant during its sea trials. The organization is also preparing to develop the longer-range K-4 underwater missile in near future and some of its trials have been completed successfully.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 08 Jul 2014 19:44

Wasn't there a report a couple of months back that K-4 has been tested? There was a bit of confusion on whether it was a K-4 test or a B05 test because the range was around 2000 Km IIRC.

Did we get a final confirmation on exactly what was tested? Thanks

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 08 Jul 2014 21:55

Prem Kumar-ji, here's your answer.

http://www.thehindu.com/todays-paper/tp ... 987663.ece

“It was an excellent flight on March 24. The K-4 missile travelled a little more than 3,000 km,” informed sources said. “We will do many more missions to prove the missile’s sub-systems and increase their reliability.” [bThe sources declined to give the length, diameter and weight of the missile or how long the flight lasted.[/b]

India is the fifth country in the world to have a missile launched underwater.

‘A proud successor’

The sources described K-4 as “the proud successor” of the K-15 underwater-launched missile, codenamed B-05. [bNearly 10 development trials of K-15 missile have already been completed from pontoons submerged in the Bay of Bengal over the past few years.[/b]

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 08 Jul 2014 22:01

Thank you!

tushar_m · Post by **tushar_m** » 16 Jul 2014 13:42

There is some buzz that INS Aridhaman is bigger boat with more powerful reactor then INS Arihant.

Conversely there is also some news of a new design with 8 cell(compared to 4 cell vls) for Indian SSBN program.

does anyone have any info. on this.

amit · Post by **amit** » 16 Jul 2014 15:27

dinesha wrote:X-Post

Nuclear triad weapons ready for deployment: DRDO
http://www.ptinews.com/news/4893779_Nuc ... -DRDO.html
New Delhi, Jul 7 (PTI) The weapons systems for the country's nuclear triad, including submarine-launched ballistic missiles, are "fully ready" for deployment, DRDO chief Avinash Chander said today.

Addressing a gathering at an IDSA event, he said the nuclear reactor on board the indigenously-developed INS Arihant nuclear submarine is also critical and is running on its "full power" before it is launched for sea trials.
http://www.livemint.com/Politics/lvVxsu ... ource=copy
New Delhi: The weapons systems for the country’s nuclear triad, including submarine-launched ballistic missiles, are “fully ready” for deployment, Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) chief Avinash Chander said on Monday.

Addressing a gathering at an event, he said the nuclear reactor on board the indigenously-developed INS Arihant nuclear submarine is also critical and is running on its “full power” before it is launched for sea trials.

The weapons for the nuclear triad are “either fully developed or are ready to be deployed,” Chander said. The nuclear triad is the capability to launch a nuclear weapon from sea, air and land. India will complete it once the Arihant is operational giving it the option to retaliate to nuclear strike through submarine-launched BO-5 missiles. The Arihant is expected to be launched for sea trials in next few months.

The Agni series missiles can be used to carry out attacks from land while some of the Indian Air Force airrcraft are also capable of launching nuclear attacks. The DRDO completed the development of the over 700km-range BO-5 missiles recently and they would be fired from the Arihant during its sea trials. The organization is also preparing to develop the longer-range K-4 underwater missile in near future and some of its trials have been completed successfully.

A lot of interesting smoke and daggers going on with Arihant's sea trials.

In May Chander ji said this:

“We willbe conducting a test launch of the K-4 missile from the Arihant submarine,which is already undergoing sea trials, within the next few months,” ScientificAdviser to the Raksha Mantri and DRDO Director General, Dr Avinash Chander toldThe Tribune during his visit to Chandigarh.

From here

Various TFTA anal-ysts must be tearing their hair out because of this double speak from SDRE babus. "Is the bloody submarine at Vizag or roaming in the Bay of Bengal?"

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 16 Jul 2014 16:33

In another 10 days it going to be 5 years since the INS Arihant was launched. Would be disappointing if it isn't undergoing its sea trials yet.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 16 Jul 2014 20:49

Its all smokes and Mirrors. Spook game. You will get all is misinformation and better not to probe any further.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Jul 2014 01:59

amit, Thats why MH-370 went probing!

amit · Post by **amit** » 17 Jul 2014 08:24

LOL! Ramana that's a good one!

Chaanakya, I have no interest whatsoever in probing, I'm quite happy in allowing the guys who are in charge to do their stuff.

But what I do find very enjoyable is how our babus are very gently and in an entirely dharmic manner showing the proverbial middle finger.

Me? I personally think the boat is long gone from Vizag. We'll next hear about it when it fires the K4 in a live trial.

chaanakya · Post by **chaanakya** » 17 Jul 2014 15:42

Oh, amit that was meant for abhik. He expressed his disappointment.

Will · Post by **Will** » 18 Jul 2014 15:24

Wonder if a new more powerful reactor has been developed for the 6 new proposed SSN's. An SSN will definitely need a more powerful reactor compared to the Arihant.

ravip · Post by **ravip** » 24 Jul 2014 17:02

tushar_m wrote:There is some buzz that INS Aridhaman is bigger boat with more powerful reactor then INS Arihant.

Conversely there is also some news of a new design with 8 cell(compared to 4 cell vls) for Indian SSBN program.

does anyone have any info. on this.

Here is a link which gives credence to your "buzz".... read the last para

http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories886.htm

The nuclear submariners see the year 2012 as a game changing year when INS Arihant joins, and it is reported that two more ATVs are planned. The second hull will have four large long range K-4 nuclear tipped missiles and the third may have an additional plug for a total of eight K-4 missiles.
The author is a former Director Naval Operations (DNO) and Naval Intelligence (DNI).

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 26 Jul 2014 17:05

Extra care delays Nuclear submarine’s sea trials
http://www.deccanchronicle.com/140726/n ... sea-trials

Visakhapatnam: The Indian Navy is being extra-careful with India's first indigenously built nuclear powered submarine INS Arihant, which is now at the naval base in Vizag. The nuclear sub is likely to go to sea trials by this year end and is expected to be commissioned by 2017.

The sea trials and the commissioning of the submarine, capable of carrying nuclear missiles, has already been delayed by more than two years. As per the original schedule, the nuclear submarine, which was ceremonially launched on July 26, 2009, was supposed to go for sea trials in 2010 and formally be inducted into the Indian Navy by 2011.

In August 2012, the then Indian Navy Chief Admiral Nirmal Verma was quoted saying that the nuclear sub would go for sea trials ‘very soon’ and was expected to be commissioned within 18 months.But, till date the submarine is not ‘ready’ for sea trials for unknown reasons. “The nuclear submarine is undergoing all the standard testing procedures of all its capabilities, since it’s the first of its kind built by India proper care is being taken,” said a top official of the Eastern Naval Command.

This comes in view of the string of accidents involving Indian Navy ships and submarines since last August, which has claimed lives of as many as 21 navy men in three mishaps, the worst being the mishap on INS Sindhurakshak at the Mumbai harbour last August which killed 18 men in the torpedo compartment of the submarine.

There were at least 12 naval mishaps since 2010, of which 10 occurred in the last year. INS Arihant is part of the Indian Navy’s secretive Advanced Technology Vessel project. With INS Arihant’s induction into the Navy, India will join the league of five nations with the ability to design, build, and operate its own nuclear submarines.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 26 Jul 2014 17:10

DRDO / Navy, must take as much care as they humanly can. Cause, heaven forbid, if any mishap takes place on the boat. The rudali's of this country will tear the navy apart, while singing praises of the imported gear.

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 27 Jul 2014 01:49

They should install video monitoring cameras in every critical section of the submarine - connect all to a solid 'Data Recorder' or multiple data recorders.

Recommend this since the dust has not settled on ins shishumar accident - sabotage has not been ruled out till date.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 27 Jul 2014 02:46

Wish the IN/DRDO would just stop giving dates now. All this time we've had chiefs saying it would go into trials in next few months.

“The nuclear submarine is undergoing all the standard testing procedures of all its capabilities, since it’s the first of its kind built by India proper care is being taken,” said a top official of the Eastern Naval Command.

Didn't they know in 2009 that this was the 'first of its kind built in India'?

Earlier we were going to have 1 year of sea trials and now it seems from 2013 to 17 will be just sea trials and its preparations. Plus the hull has a 25-30 year life time anyway and soon it will be a time for the mid-life refit that takes 2+ years to complete.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Jul 2014 03:21

Who knows whether it is in trials or not! Its not advisable that the IN/DRDO should advertise when its heading out so that every Navy operating in our shores can send their snoops to monitor the trials.
IMHO, a lot of of the media reports are plain disinfo.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 27 Jul 2014 06:13

Karan M wrote:Who knows whether it is in trials or not! Its not advisable that the IN/DRDO should advertise when its heading out so that every Navy operating in our shores can send their snoops to monitor the trials.
IMHO, a lot of of the media reports are plain disinfo.

If we're really worried about foreign Navies snooping on the Arihant during sea trials, why don't we send a couple of P-17s along to sanitize an area of testing? Once the Arihant is inducted, would we not send it on blue water patrols because other navies will 'snoop' it?

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 27 Jul 2014 06:50

Nikhil T wrote:
Karan M wrote:Who knows whether it is in trials or not! Its not advisable that the IN/DRDO should advertise when its heading out so that every Navy operating in our shores can send their snoops to monitor the trials.
IMHO, a lot of of the media reports are plain disinfo.
If we're really worried about foreign Navies snooping on the Arihant during sea trials, why don't we send a couple of P-17s along to sanitize an area of testing? Once the Arihant is inducted, would we not send it on blue water patrols because other navies will 'snoop' it?

Sanitize the Bay of Bengal and conduct the trials in the Arabian Sea.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 28 Jul 2014 18:45

Nikhil T wrote: If we're really worried about foreign Navies snooping on the Arihant during sea trials, why don't we send a couple of P-17s along to sanitize an area of testing? Once the Arihant is inducted, would we not send it on blue water patrols because other navies will 'snoop' it?

Sanitize? How? Launch Harpoons and torpedoes at ships and boats... Perhaps the overflights will dissuade those nasty spies?

Get real!

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 28 Jul 2014 21:23

Shalav wrote:
Nikhil T wrote: If we're really worried about foreign Navies snooping on the Arihant during sea trials, why don't we send a couple of P-17s along to sanitize an area of testing? Once the Arihant is inducted, would we not send it on blue water patrols because other navies will 'snoop' it?
Sanitize? How? Launch Harpoons and torpedoes at ships and boats... Perhaps the overflights will dissuade those nasty spies?

Get real!

You don't have to shoot at someone to sanitize the area. Much like CBGs do all the time, you only need detect if there are foreign naval ships in the area of trials. If there are, choose a different area. Point is that sea trials are not being delayed because of snooping fears, just that dates given initially were over ambitious and misleading.

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 28 Jul 2014 22:11

Sanitization is achievable as it will be along a predetermined path - not the whole bay of bengal or arabian sea. Also, we can sink anything we want within our maritime territory.

Submarines will likely be waiting silently off harbor entrances to acquire sonar signature of Arihant. They are more difficult to track unless moving but still doable as area is small.

US navy operational practice is to send an attack submarine ahead of every boomer deployment - with attack submarine's active sonar broadcasting at peak power. It drowns out every other noise allowing the boomer to slip away from harbor undetected, defeating a lurking soviet submarine from tailing the boomer.

We can send any IN ship with active sonar first and ahead of Arihant with Bollywood beats playing at full blast for desired effect

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 28 Jul 2014 23:44

Nikhil T wrote:You don't have to shoot at someone to sanitize the area. Much like CBGs do all the time, you only need detect if there are foreign naval ships in the area of trials. If there are, choose a different area. Point is that sea trials are not being delayed because of snooping fears, just that dates given initially were over ambitious and misleading.

That's not sanitaization, that's reconnaissance. What makes you think this is not already being done or will be done before the sub slips out for sea-trails?

nik wrote:Also, we can sink anything we want within our maritime territory.

Out maritime territory is 12 NM from shoreline. Then what?

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 29 Jul 2014 00:15

Shalav wrote:
Nikhil T wrote:You don't have to shoot at someone to sanitize the area. Much like CBGs do all the time, you only need detect if there are foreign naval ships in the area of trials. If there are, choose a different area. Point is that sea trials are not being delayed because of snooping fears, just that dates given initially were over ambitious and misleading.
That's not sanitaization, that's reconnaissance. What makes you think this is not already being done or will be done before the sub slips out for sea-trails?

CBG reconnaissance is done with airborne assets like Orions and is done in bursts. Sanitization is done with naval assets like escort ships and SSNs. Source: Seapower as strategy book

And you're just restating my point that this can be easily done when Arihant is sea-trial ready. Read the first few posts again.

Shalav · Post by **Shalav** » 29 Jul 2014 01:42

And Sanitaization means you clean out the dirt, not run away from it! Pinpointing OpFor positions and avoiding it is reconnaissance, not sanitaization. Kindly recognize the difference.

India does not have an operational nuclear powered submarine - quoting some out of print book to nit-pick a definition in a war situation as opposed to a sea-trail is infantile.

member_26622 · Post by **member_26622** » 31 Jul 2014 10:16

Just have a shivalik ahead of Arihant with active Hull and towed sonar blasting a full power to drown out everything else. Send two other ships as decoys....just need to be creative.

It will be like an Indian marriage procession - band followed by the groom aka Arihant!

We also have a Akula nuclear submarine to add to the confusion.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 31 Jul 2014 12:07

Nikhil T wrote:
Karan M wrote:Who knows whether it is in trials or not! Its not advisable that the IN/DRDO should advertise when its heading out so that every Navy operating in our shores can send their snoops to monitor the trials.
IMHO, a lot of of the media reports are plain disinfo.
If we're really worried about foreign Navies snooping on the Arihant during sea trials, why don't we send a couple of P-17s along to sanitize an area of testing? Once the Arihant is inducted, would we not send it on blue water patrols because other navies will 'snoop' it?

Question is if we are testing unique attributes during these trials - like all sonar modes, special weaponry launch conditions, sprint speeds etc - if you are doing this, you don't want anyone around as far as possible because they will take time and you can't sanitize an area forever.
Best way - full SDRE like - is to not have anyone know its getting tested. Otherwise, you will need a flotilla guarding the Arihant and the whole world will snoop anyways.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 31 Jul 2014 16:04

If the enemy knows one's tactics,then it will be easy for it to simply track the surface warship designated and locate the SSBN.
The first requisite is that the SSBN must have a true ICBM,so that it can increase the distance between it and potential targets.It then has far more ocean in which to hide.Secondly,a large investment must be made in survey/hydrographic vessels to map the ocean floors and unique profiles,places suitable for a sub to hide in.Thermal clines,etc. need to be known.Thirdly,a secure commns. system,ELF,VLF,sat commns using lasers,whatever are also required for the sub to regularly receive commands. Fourth,its entire raison d'etre is stealth.The highest level of quieting is required. Every effort to reduce noise has to be explored in the sub's design.Russian subs-and US ones as ell one is sure,have tiny aux motors/screws which swing out when the sub is running silent.Russian subs also have some unique sensors which can be seen on their Akulas (not on the Chakra),offered to us according to the BK report in the naval td.
If need be an SSN/SSGN can also be deployed to protect the SSBN,but this could also give away the area in which the SSBN is operating/hiding in.What self-protection weaponry in the form of anti-sub anti-air missiles ,rocket ,LR torpedoes an SSBN requires is a moot point.

As I've said before,we could confuse sats,etc., with also using BMs aboard barges which could pop out of UG pens within base bastions launch and scoot back if need be in a crisis.The enemy would not know how many barges equipped with ICBMs exist. This would complicate matters as normally when a crisis is developing the SSBNs leave their bases to find deep water ,as bases would be targeted. The IN requires at least 30-36 subs both N-subs and conventional AIP subs to counter China and Pal.

dinesha · Post by **dinesha** » 31 Jul 2014 21:04

Indian Navy gets facility for uninterrupted communication with ships
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/indian-navy- ... 491-3.html

New Delhi: To establish uninterrupted communication with its deployed ships, especially submarines, the Navy on Thursday operationalised a facility at Tirunelvelli in Tamil Nadu which will help it to remain in touch with its strategic vessels across its areas of interest. "Navy Chief Admiral RK Dhowan inaugurated a new state-of-the-art 'Very Low Frequency' (VLF) transmitting station at INS Kattaboman in Tirunelvelli which would provide a boost to the Navy's ability to communicate with deployed ships and submarines on an uninterrupted basis throughout the year," a Navy release said.

"India is among a handful of nations in the world that have such a capability. VLF radio waves are used for communicating with submarines that are underwater," it said. India has only one nuclear submarine 'INS Chakra', which has been leased from Russia, in its fleet. It is planning to induct the indigenously-developed and built INS Arihant in the near future. It has also plans of building more than three nuclear submarines of the Arihant Class in the next few years. "Being a Navy that deploys globally to represent and protect Indian national interests, the service has an elaborate communication infrastructure, including modern satellite communication facilities, to link and network its deployed units with their home bases and command and control centres," the Navy said.
The new facility has been constructed by Indian private sector firm L and T and boasts of the highest mast structures in the country.

merlin · Post by **merlin** » 05 Aug 2014 08:51

dinesha wrote:Indian Navy gets facility for uninterrupted communication with ships
http://ibnlive.in.com/news/indian-navy- ... 491-3.html
New Delhi: To establish uninterrupted communication with its deployed ships, especially submarines, the Navy on Thursday operationalised a facility at Tirunelvelli in Tamil Nadu which will help it to remain in touch with its strategic vessels across its areas of interest. "Navy Chief Admiral RK Dhowan inaugurated a new state-of-the-art 'Very Low Frequency' (VLF) transmitting station at INS Kattaboman in Tirunelvelli which would provide a boost to the Navy's ability to communicate with deployed ships and submarines on an uninterrupted basis throughout the year," a Navy release said.

"India is among a handful of nations in the world that have such a capability. VLF radio waves are used for communicating with submarines that are underwater," it said. India has only one nuclear submarine 'INS Chakra', which has been leased from Russia, in its fleet. It is planning to induct the indigenously-developed and built INS Arihant in the near future. It has also plans of building more than three nuclear submarines of the Arihant Class in the next few years. "Being a Navy that deploys globally to represent and protect Indian national interests, the service has an elaborate communication infrastructure, including modern satellite communication facilities, to link and network its deployed units with their home bases and command and control centres," the Navy said.
The new facility has been constructed by Indian private sector firm L and T and boasts of the highest mast structures in the country.

Wasn't this already operational waaaaay back?

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 05 Aug 2014 09:05

Yes in the 80's guess during the time of induction of INS chakra . Its a ELF ( extreme low frequency ) facility built by L&T adjacent to existing VLF facility.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 05 Aug 2014 09:34

Probably an ELF communication facility to communicate with INS Chakra & INS Arihant.
This would basically ask the subs to deploy their VLF antennas to receive a slightly faster VLF message?
Incidentally, US, Russia and India are the only 3 nations that have ELF facilities!

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 05 Aug 2014 09:45

i believe VLF works underwater just not at the depth of ELF albeit ELF might have a really slow rate like few bytes/minute.

the subs probably reel out a floating radio buoy with satcom antenna to get their final orders before coming up to missile firing depth.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 05 Aug 2014 09:53

The subs do roll out a floating buoy, but this is subsurface and not visible from above.
The problem with VLF is its shallow depth of penetrance.
ELF is practically useless if you're trying to send a message, the data transfer rate is tooooo slow, and it only allows a one way communication from land to sub! But it can function as a useful ping to alert the sub to deploy its VLF antenna for two way communication whenever the home base wants.
Otherwise, subs deploy their antennas at certain time periods for VLF comms, then submerge deeper into the ocean to hide.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 05 Aug 2014 10:03

Likely its an additonal VLF facility built , its not uncommon to have multiple VLF facility for maintenance and coverage .....ELF facility extends many tens of km and needs appropriate ground for that not sure if we have plans to build one.

partha · Post by **partha** » 05 Aug 2014 10:06

Slightly OT but interesting. System used by US to communicate with submerged subs in 80s (possibly even now).

http://jproc.ca/radiostor/vlfelf.html

In the United States military, the primary means of communicating with submerged submarines is the TACAMO (Take Charge and Move Out) system which uses a fleet of aircraft. Two aircraft are always airborne - one over the Atlantic and one over the Pacific. Other aircraft are stationed on the ground and they are on a 15 minute alert. The aircraft fly 10.5 hour missions, starting at one airfield and ending at another. Random patterns are flown to mislead any unauthorized observers. The TACAMO aircraft can receive and relay signals from a number of different ground command posts. Each aircraft is equipped with a 6.2 mile long trailing wire antenna (wound on a reel) and a 100 kw transmitter operating in the VLF region. When the aircraft has to transmit a message, it banks and proceeds to fly a very tight circle. That causes the trailing wire antenna to hang vertically below. Once the message is transmitted over the VLF downlink the aircraft resumes normal flight.

The TACAMO fleet was initially comprised of the Lockheed Hercules EC130 aircraft, but these are being gradually phased out and replaced with the Boeing 747 AWACS type aircraft. These aircraft have the capability to transmit a 200 kw signal using a 2.5 mile trailing antenna. The systems described above were documented in a book printed in 1985. Due to unavailability of information, I do not know if the same system is still in use in the 1990's, but the techniques, nonetheless are quite intriguing.

arun · Post by **arun** » 05 Aug 2014 10:45

How many submarine communication facilities does the Indian navy want?

Besides earlier talk of establishing an ELF facility in addition to the VLF facility at Kattaboman, a fortnight back (i.e. July 21, 2014) it was reported by PTI that the Indian Navy had received land in the Dammagudem reserve forest in Ranga Reddy district of Telegana to establish a VLF station:

Navy to get 2900-acre land to set up VLF station in Telangana

Is the newly inaugurated VLF facility the previously rumoured ELF facility that was to have come up at Kattaboman? Or is that i.e. ELF facility, a completely different beast that is yet to complete?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 05 Aug 2014 22:04

There is (unknown) facility in W Bengal too. I tried to look for it on satellite pictures, but was unable to locate it.

India is mentioned as one of the three nations that have and ELF facility.
The American ELF facility has an antenna 51 km long, the Russian one has a 60 Km antenna. India is the only other known nation to possess such a facility