INS Arihant (ATV) News and Discussion -2

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Jul 2009 21:40

Gerard wrote: The yield of the Sagarika warhead is not known. It could very well be a 90-100kt TN one.

If our TN fizzled out by most estimates how can we get that 90 - 100 kt figure ?

the 30 yr sub building plan called for construction of 25 subs, 20 conventional and 5 nuclear.
the split between SSBN and SSNs was not specified.

Nopes it was 24 Conventional SSK onlee , Nuclear figures where never officially quoted.

But most likely we will get atleast 3 SSBN in the coming decade.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 23 Jul 2009 21:43

Austin, you are correct. unofficial + official estimate was 24+5.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 23 Jul 2009 22:16

Austin wrote:If our TN fizzled out by most estimates how can we get that 90 - 100 kt figure ?

Fizzle? Really? Who said so? The folks engaged in creative use of seismology? The same folk who are now saying that North Korea denoted conventional explosives and faked their last test?

Indrajit · Post by **Indrajit** » 23 Jul 2009 23:03

According to Ajai Shukla there is no ATV Project,it's all an eye wash,Mrs.Manmohan Singh will break a coconut on an imajinary Sub.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogI ... 162&page=1

Guys just scroll downwards and u'll find....

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 23 Jul 2009 23:14

Gerard wrote:Fizzle? Really? Who said so? The folks engaged in creative use of seismology? The same folk who are now saying that North Korea denoted conventional explosives and faked their last test?

Bharat Karnad book on India Nuclear Policy , quoting ex BARC official and others clearly says that there is grave element of doubt , so a big question mark exist over the validity of TN test.

Question that can only be proven with a new series of test which should prove India's TN capability without a BIG question.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 23 Jul 2009 23:22

quoting ex BARC official

Was the person named? Did he/she play any part in the tests? Is Karnad still advocating multi-megaton warheads?

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 23 Jul 2009 23:26

Austin wrote:
Gerard wrote: The yield of the Sagarika warhead is not known. It could very well be a 90-100kt TN one.
If our TN fizzled out by most estimates how can we get that 90 - 100 kt figure ?

Correct.
There is a very big difference between what one has been demonstrated and what one wishes. Deterrence come from what is credibly demonstrated not from wishful statements.

Powers that need be concerned know that TN fizzled (second stage fusion yield << 10 Kt). In current setup the only way India can climb out of the TN hole is to field two sets of high energy Laser facilities for Inertial Confinement, one for weapons program and identical one open for civil research (for others to see) so that no one is any doubt that Indian weaponeers have relevant setup for validating TN weapon in relevant energy regimes. Of course to keep the system honest India will need two autonomous and independent teams of physicists (not engineers) and mathematicians owning the design verification and stewardship.

Unless the above gets done Indian TN weapons credibility will stay put at <<10 Kt secondary yield and weapon yield <45Kt.

One can't fight against reality. Take it for what it is worth, and I do not wish to argue further.
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Edited to fix grammar errors -Arun_S

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 23 Jul 2009 23:30

AruanS , Gerard, Austin, please take this discussion to the proper thread.
open a new one if required.
we all know what will happen to this thread if this discussion continues here !

PLEASE !

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 23 Jul 2009 23:37

Austin wrote:
Gerard wrote:Fizzle? Really? Who said so? The folks engaged in creative use of seismology? The same folk who are now saying that North Korea denoted conventional explosives and faked their last test?
Bharat Karnad book on India Nuclear Policy , quoting ex BARC official and others clearly says that there is grave element of doubt , so a big question mark exist over the validity of TN test.

Question that can only be proven with a new series of test which should prove India's TN capability without a BIG question.

Give the 123 constrain that MM Singh Govt has shackled India with, there is a middle option from India that I outlined in my previous post.

Let me stop here on any further TN weapon yield discussion.

Shameek · Post by **Shameek** » 23 Jul 2009 23:42

Indrajit wrote:According to Ajai Shukla there is no ATV Project,it's all an eye wash,Mrs.Manmohan Singh will break a coconut on an imajinary Sub.

https://www.blogger.com/comment.g?blogI ... 162&page=1

Guys just scroll downwards and u'll find....

Scroll down further to see it magically reappear again!

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 24 Jul 2009 07:10

I can just picture the footage... Doordarshan cameraman focuses on the coconut.. then switches to various VIPs. We get a brief partial shot of the hull. He then decides to focus on other, more interesting objects... ship in the background... circling helicopter... cue the logo.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Jul 2009 10:43

Suraj wrote:It is better if the entire Arihant hull is not displayed. Just a scene of Ms.Kaur breaking the coconut, with the massive bulging bow in front, and a quick pan of the sail and body is fine. It is useful to maintain a good degree of mystique around the boat.

Yes we should launch the ATV with a burqua on it , else the infidels will cast an evil eye

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 24 Jul 2009 10:57

Austin wrote:Yes we should launch the ATV with a burqua on it , else the infidels will cast an evil eye

Especially the ones aboard Yuri Dolgoruky

AmitR · Post by **AmitR** » 24 Jul 2009 11:25

Is ATV Congress's submarine or BJP's submarine.
And why is MMS's wife breaking coconut or whatever on it. Isn't MMS a Lahori?

Arun_S · Post by **Arun_S** » 24 Jul 2009 12:02

AmitR wrote:Is ATV Congress's submarine or BJP's submarine.

Of course, surely ATV is a Kangrassi submarine, because it is born under Kangress watch.

When some other party comes in power it will be BSP (sic) submarine, and power to be will make sure they spend $2 billion in local investments to ensure that apart from Kangress no other parties come to power else Indian ATV fleet will double up and keep growing.

So much for BJP's Kargil war.

Anujan · Post by **Anujan** » 24 Jul 2009 12:09

I wonder what color the blood of our brave soldiers in Kargil was. Saffron or white ?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 Jul 2009 12:44

Suraj wrote:
Austin wrote:Yes we should launch the ATV with a burqua on it , else the infidels will cast an evil eye
Especially the ones aboard Yuri Dolgoruky

If you do some research , you will realize that that's not the fact , YD was exposed to the fullest possible during yard launch and the recent launch for sea trials.

The yard launch was more of a political statement and the sub was 85 % complete , the recent sea trial launch was the real thing.

From reports in the press the Arihant launch is more of sea trial launch , which means sub is complete and ready for trial so no need for Burqa.

By the way we have even seen the pics of second YD under construction recently

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 24 Jul 2009 12:58

austin, you missed the point.

else the infidels will cast an evil eye

Especially the ones aboard Yuri Dolgoruky

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 24 Jul 2009 20:23

Guys now i am getting the jitters, as we near commencement of testing or Arihant, I am worried what if something goes wrong during testing in vizag, I mean g*** f** rahi hai, I cant think of the problems that the crew/people would have to face. They should probably do a number of ganapati homams/satyanarayan vraths(, some non-hindu religious rituals too) before entering the subs.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 24 Jul 2009 20:37

suryag wrote:Guys now i am getting the jitters, as we near commencement of testing or Arihant, I am worried what if something goes wrong during testing in vizag, I mean g*** f** rahi hai, I cant think of the problems that the crew/people would have to face. They should probably do a number of ganapati homams/satyanarayan vraths(, some non-hindu religious rituals too) before entering the subs.

True. Actually - because it is a top secret project - the submarine cannot actually enter the water without being made to stand vertically on it's tail - with the screw protected. Then rocket motors are fired to move the hull about 25 meters laterally from secret to non secret area. Since manufacture is done immersed in Kerosene - that will be drained and the entire boat rinsed with spirit and then hosed down with distilled water and then sea water. When the smell is a little less strong the coconut is broken.

I too am having the heebie jeeebies..

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 24 Jul 2009 20:46

shiv wrote:entire boat rinsed with spirit and then hosed down with distilled water and then sea water. When the smell is a little less strong the coconut is broken.

I too am having the heebie jeeebies..

It must be ghee, milk and then Ganga jal.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jul 2009 06:56

four K-X (thank god its not Y)

touche

Andrew DeCristofaro · Post by **Andrew DeCristofaro** » 25 Jul 2009 08:59

Deleted.

If you want to know where each part of the ATV came from, please look it up yourself, instead of going 'I want to know this' and 'I want to know that', expecting everyone to spoonfeed you.

Trolling and inciting a flamewar will ensure another warning.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 25 Jul 2009 09:14

I agree.. dismantle DRDO..buy Russian...or better let's make BRF - RRF

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jul 2009 09:47

love it when he keeps on saying our country. are you by any chance born in dibrugarh, tamil nadu ?

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 25 Jul 2009 22:26

Subramanya Swami is God of WAR

KrishG · Post by **KrishG** » 25 Jul 2009 22:49

proposed names of future Arihant class vessels deleted

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 25 Jul 2009 23:57

proposed alternate name of Arihant deleted

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 26 Jul 2009 00:04

What is so aggressive about the name?

Only enemies have to worry. I do not recall any in the 'hood who claim to be an enemy of India.

karthik · Post by **karthik** » 26 Jul 2009 00:42

So finally good news after years of waiting for an high class indeginious weapon. I know its still far from complete in terms of weapons and system integration, still its really nice to hear this. However it makes me wonder if making an Nuclear Submarine is much easier than making an Fighter aircrafts jet engine or a battel tank, if they could not make those to service standards, then i wonder how this would be.! Just a bit skeptical these days but then we have our ISRO which sets world standards.

So any one have a pic of Arihant, i want to see how she looks, i would be happy if someone can post it, cant wait for tomorrow.

Also is it an attack submarine or a BMS(ballistic missile submarine)? Looking at the satellite image on google its obvious that it cant be an BMS but i am just curious. If Arihant is an attack submarine then why should we go for the Scorpene, would the Scorpene deal be scraped? Pardon my naivety, i dont have time to catch up on def talk these days, i would appreciate the information.

thanks.

John Snow · Post by **John Snow** » 26 Jul 2009 00:58

Venkarl wrote:Subramanya Swami is God of WAR

Not God of War but Supreme commander of Allied forces.

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 26 Jul 2009 01:05

Shiv Aroor indicates he's travelling to Vizag for the launch. So it appears general media will have some degree of access.

Venkarl · Post by **Venkarl** » 26 Jul 2009 01:17

John Snow wrote:
Venkarl wrote:Subramanya Swami is God of WAR
Not God of War but Supreme commander of Allied forces.

Subramanya Swami/Kartikeya/Murugan is God of War
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Murugan

Keeping up with our forum standards by quoting a "source"

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jul 2009 04:33

Delhi Clock

Local Time New Delhi

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Jul 2009 04:49

Weather in Vizag.
Overcast. Looks like no pictures for conventional satellites, SARs onlee.
http://www.weather-forecast.com/locatio ... sts/latest

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Jul 2009 05:07

This is all the ATV we are going to get to see.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Jul 2009 05:13

good one !

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 26 Jul 2009 05:24

Hope they can secure an auspicious coconut. It ought to be prestrained, preferably at npl, so mrs mms cracks the shell and nor the hull.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 26 Jul 2009 05:31

sanjaykumar wrote:Hope they can secure an auspicious coconut. It ought to be prestrained, preferably at npl, so mrs mms cracks the shell and nor the hull.

do they crack coconuts on the hull or in front of the hull ?
I know how its done with bottles but coconuts are not broken on the 'thing' AFAIK !

P.S. my ! what are we discussing ?!

Rahul Shukla · Post by **Rahul Shukla** » 26 Jul 2009 05:38

While everybody is going gaga over the details of the ICSCC (Inelastic coconut-submarine collision ceremony) and this missile and that warhead to be carried by the pandubbi, all I can think of is the coconut.

Who selects the coconut? What are the GSRQ specs of the coconut? Was this coconut received from a single-source vendor? Did the Navy pay too much for the coconut? Is this an indigenous coconut? What steps are being taken by the PMO & DOD to ensure the coconut cracks on the first try? Has Mrs. Singh practiced coconut cracking beforehand?

Too many questions... no answers!

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But congratulations onlee too all involved in this great project. Well done!