Indian Military Aviation

All threads that are locked or marked for deletion will be moved to this forum. The topics will be cleared from this archive on the 1st and 16th of each month.
Locked
Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1440
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Craig Alpert »

IAF Carries Out Power Exercise Using Frontline Aircraft
...............
Speaking on the occasion, South Western Air Command Chief Air Marshall P S Bhangu said the demonstration was being carried out after six years and the plan was to hold it more frequently.
...........................
Russian-origin Mi-35 attack helicopters, Mi-17 medium lift helicopters, IL-76 heavy lift and AN-32 medium lift transport plane also flew over the venue for the day-and-night air drop for specialised operations.

For the first time, the AWACS was used to monitor the mammoth exercise while an unmanned aerial vehicle streamed live video images of the target destruction.
.................
For the FPD, mock radar sites, tanks, marshalling yards, terrorist camps, runway, BMP infantry fighting vehicles, blast pens and convoys are among a few of the targets that pilots destroyed.

IAF’s Special Forces Garuds were also para-dropped, who carried out the drill to neutralise a mock terrorist camp.

Displaying jointness among Services, Army’s Special Forces and Navy’s Marine Commandos also took part in the exercise.

The idea of the exercise is to project the IAF's objectives in its present avatar, as spelt out by Air Chief Marshal P V Naik: "To see first and farthest, to reach first and furthest and to hit hard and accurately."
Shameek
BRFite
Posts: 911
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 20:44
Location: Ionosphere

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Shameek »

NDTV pics

Except the first pic, all others have unrelated descriptions/comments.
Bala Vignesh
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2131
Joined: 30 Apr 2009 02:02
Location: Standing at the edge of the cliff
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Bala Vignesh »

Shameek wrote:TV 9 clip on you tube. MiG 21, Jags and Su-30. Anyone catch the MiG 29 supersonic run?
was the awacs displayed to the public??? or was it just orbiting the site out of sight cause the video mentions and i qute "high tech AWACS equipments were displayed"...
AdityaM
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2025
Joined: 30 Sep 2002 11:31
Location: New Delhi

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by AdityaM »

commenatry was good.. was too technical & accurate to be from DD. probably from IAF. Also was the background music only for TV feed or was actaully being played there? good background music too.
Interspersed actual commands from Surya Kiran leader and the UAV streaming video were an amazing touch.
The only time DD commentators were given a free hand, they messed up- When the music band started playing, the DD chaps didnot allow unadulterated pure music to flow on the airwaves without adding their nonstop commentary noise.
karan_mc
BRFite
Posts: 704
Joined: 02 Dec 2006 20:53

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by karan_mc »

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOGxDzJDRZE

Sukhoi su 30 mki demo from vayu shakti demo
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by shiv »

karan_mc wrote:http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rOGxDzJDRZE

Sukhoi su 30 mki demo from vayu shakti demo
Karan. Good job.

Clearly the Su never seems to do a "real" loop. By the time it crosses the top of the loop the thrust vectoring has kicked in making the loop more of an exaggerated pitching tumble (a roll on the transverse axis) rather than a formal loop. I suppose that helps for the next phase when it descends doing a yawing turn - which I believe is the real signature maneuver of the MKI - not the tail slide.

I have some good videos - but as usual it will be a while before I upload them. I will be waiting for replays and re runs of the show to try and get the best clips.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by shiv »

Singha wrote:americanitis. a dhoti would be called by its american name if available.
:rotfl:
Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11242
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Gagan »

What is this? A communication setup?
Image
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Singha »

btw as you see the searcher feed was TV camera not thermal. else the engines would be white.
it may have used thermal to show the night targets being bombed but then it was not tracking the
night a/c.
Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11242
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Gagan »

It might be a SAR image.
The output looks like a IR / Thermal output, but apparantly it does not show the hot objects as white.

For eg.
Image
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Singha »

could be right. the Sarang helis were coming up as peculiar all-black 'shadows' onlee.
manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2615
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by manjgu »

shameek.. i was there on chandan range on 24th... the Mig supersonic run and the runway cratering bombs was the best !! the supersonic run was just incredible IMHO....
Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11242
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Gagan »

I remember watching the air power display when Pres. Venkataraman was in attendence. DD showed a Mig-25 do a low level supersonic flypast with a sonic boom that went on and on, AT THE SAME TIME IT PHTOGRAPHED THE DIGNITARIES in color. The dust from the ground continued to rise after the fighter had long departed in waves all along the path the plane had taken.

This was presented to the president and a copy was put up on DD for the viewers, in less than an hour after that supersonic flypast! This was mind blowing for a yound lad like me then.
Gagan
BRF Oldie
Posts: 11242
Joined: 16 Apr 2008 22:25

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Gagan »

Apparently, the problem with IR / Thermal is poor penetrance of cloud/ bad weather? No such issues with SAR it seems.

But gurus would enlighten, I am loath to do a research now.
Shameek
BRFite
Posts: 911
Joined: 02 Jan 2009 20:44
Location: Ionosphere

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Shameek »

manjgu wrote:shameek.. i was there on chandan range on 24th... the Mig supersonic run and the runway cratering bombs was the best !! the supersonic run was just incredible IMHO....
Any videos? I have been scouring the net for the MiG 29 dash since I heard about it but no luck so far.
anishns
BRFite
Posts: 1382
Joined: 16 Dec 2007 09:43
Location: being victim onlee...

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by anishns »

Nothing Indian about this....but, if the Mig29 supersonic flyby is anything like the one below, this jingo would be very happy :twisted:



Mods please delete if inappropriate!
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17168
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Rahul M »

Singha wrote:could be right. the Sarang helis were coming up as peculiar all-black 'shadows' onlee.
that was the shadow onlee. searcher was following the shadow on the ground rather than the actual helo, unlike other aircraft.
nirav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2020
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 00:22
Location: Mumbai

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by nirav »

anishns wrote:Nothing Indian about this....but, if the Mig29 supersonic flyby is anything like the one below, this jingo would be very happy :twisted:
...

Mods please delete if inappropriate!
Much better than the one you posted ... as you could see the 29 approach silently at low level and then zoom past ... and then the bOOm :twisted:
Gaur
Forum Moderator
Posts: 2009
Joined: 01 Feb 2009 23:19

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Gaur »

shiv wrote: I have some good videos - but as usual it will be a while before I upload them. I will be waiting for replays and re runs of the show to try and get the best clips.
If the video quality of your recording is substantially superior than youtube quality, then please host your files at ifile. We jingos would then be able to ogle better.
Thanks.
manjgu
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2615
Joined: 11 Aug 2006 10:33

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by manjgu »

i was perched on a little sand dune outside the AF range station, Chaandan with some lads from the local village.. the constant humming sound of the UAV was very much audible, but i could not spot it visually inspite of trying very hard and also asking the local villagers to assist. the local villagers called the drone as 'computer plane??".
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by shiv »

Gaur wrote:
shiv wrote: I have some good videos - but as usual it will be a while before I upload them. I will be waiting for replays and re runs of the show to try and get the best clips.
If the video quality of your recording is substantially superior than youtube quality, then please host your files at ifile. We jingos would then be able to ogle better.
Thanks.
Well yes and no. The quality is a little better but only 5% is worth watching (the real action). Of that 5% - half is fullscreen (DD) and the other half is half screen or less (Headlines Today etc) where more than 50% of screen area is occupied by text. I love cropping out the extra stuff - but that degrades the original by enlargement. But this takes time and if I need to spend tiem I might as well do as good a job as I can with available footage.

Finally the there are only 3-4 separate clips lasting seconds that are worth watching (I am ignoring Surya Kiran and Sarang of which there is a lot of footage on the net). The clips are some unique and spectacular images of An 32 and Il 76 lit up by their own flares and some footage of MiG 21 (rockets), Jag (bombs) and Su 30 (unknown munition) hitting targets on the ground. I intend to work on them. optimize them and upload on YouTube and the forget about them so I don't need to go back to them ever. But the number of people with videos stuff online is increasing and I am sure more and more clips wil appear and my decade long effors will likely get superannuated :(( :lol:

Actually this is the 3rd set of Vayu Shakti videos I will be working on - a whole lot of earlier Vayu Shakti footage I had is online already. Kapil had gone for the last edition of Vayu Shakti but his camera malfunctioned - so the footage was mixed quality. The MiG 29 sonic booms are heard well in his footage - but nothing is visible.
neeraj
BRFite
Posts: 372
Joined: 12 Jun 2001 11:31
Location: UK

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by neeraj »

Are the Pechora's (NDTV image) still in service
rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7830
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by rohitvats »

Jagan wrote:seems like Chankian Indian Air Force sent the An-32 bomber during night to make BRFites life a bit more difficult (in their guessing games)
I caught the last 50% of the demo. The moment they announced the bombing run by an AN-32, me went real close to the TV to have a dekko (i knew it would come up on BRF :P ). The a/c dropped 10 1000 lbs bombs. The sequence of dropping the bombs was as folllows: The a/c reached the release point, 1st set of flares were released, the a/c simultaneously did a nose up and went into a climb and then the bombs rolled out........sorry, only faintly saw a drag chute kind of thing fly out....no bombs visible......ingress speed-400kmph, egress speed-450kmph....this target was btw partially destroyed and was later taken up by SU-30MKI....

And yes, Su-30MKI was carrying 26 250kg bombs......man...it seems it was raining bombs when one of the a'c let go its load........

The commentary was by IAF guys...good information with right technical details....(Jag coming in 40 degree dive...lining up and should release the weapon now......explained what a barrel role is....etc.)
rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7830
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by rohitvats »

neeraj wrote:Are the Pechora's (NDTV image) still in service
Yes, very much so....both in the IAF and IA....though they have been updated.....the AKASH system should be replacing them in IAF and IA....
nirav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2020
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 00:22
Location: Mumbai

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by nirav »

shiv wrote: Well yes and no. The quality is a little better but only 5% is worth watching (the real action). Of that 5% - half is fullscreen (DD) and the other half is half screen or less (Headlines Today etc) where more than 50% of screen area is occupied by text. I love cropping out the extra stuff - but that degrades the original by enlargement. But this takes time and if I need to spend tiem I might as well do as good a job as I can with available footage.

Finally the there are only 3-4 separate clips lasting seconds that are worth watching (I am ignoring Surya Kiran and Sarang of which there is a lot of footage on the net). The clips are some unique and spectacular images of An 32 and Il 76 lit up by their own flares and some footage of MiG 21 (rockets), Jag (bombs) and Su 30 (unknown munition) hitting targets on the ground. I intend to work on them. optimize them and upload on YouTube and the forget about them so I don't need to go back to them ever. But the number of people with videos stuff online is increasing and I am sure more and more clips wil appear and my decade long effors will likely get superannuated :(( :lol:

Actually this is the 3rd set of Vayu Shakti videos I will be working on - a whole lot of earlier Vayu Shakti footage I had is online already. Kapil had gone for the last edition of Vayu Shakti but his camera malfunctioned - so the footage was mixed quality. The MiG 29 sonic booms are heard well in his footage - but nothing is visible.
would sending a mail to DD help ? I just did, requesting them to either re telecast or make it downloadable ...
Also noticed that DD has archives for music and sells CDs of it. Requested them to make VayuShakti 2010 a purchasable CD ....

Guess if more people could mail them, we *may* end up getting a CD version of VayuShakti for purchase ..

Edit :

@ Jagan : Saar, the FB link says 'Video unavailable' .. :(
Rahul M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 17168
Joined: 17 Aug 2005 21:09
Location: Skies over BRFATA
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Rahul M »

nirav, please share DD's email ID too. too lazy to look it up.
vishal
BRFite
Posts: 336
Joined: 27 Feb 2002 12:31
Location: BOM/SIN

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by vishal »

manjgu wrote:i was perched on a little sand dune outside the AF range station, Chaandan with some lads from the local village.. the constant humming sound of the UAV was very much audible, but i could not spot it visually inspite of trying very hard and also asking the local villagers to assist. the local villagers called the drone as 'computer plane??".
If the villagers have a name for it then they might just have been seeing a lot of it. In which case the IAF would have been giving those things some serious workouts.
nirav
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2020
Joined: 31 Aug 2004 00:22
Location: Mumbai

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by nirav »

Rahul M wrote:nirav, please share DD's email ID too. too lazy to look it up.
I'd sent a mail on : webadmin at dd.nic.in

On further looking on DDs site, came up with this huge contact list !
Will call up the relevant(PRO) person tomorrow and also mass mail important people to see if they respond to this Jingo request of a re telecast or download/archive !

The telephone directory is here
http://www.ddindia.gov.in/Information/Contact+Us
KrishG
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 1290
Joined: 25 Nov 2008 20:43
Location: Land of Trala-la

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by KrishG »

neeraj
BRFite
Posts: 372
Joined: 12 Jun 2001 11:31
Location: UK

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by neeraj »

Some more pics

Vayushakti 2010
rohitvats
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 7830
Joined: 08 Sep 2005 18:24
Location: Jatland

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by rohitvats »

A question to hawa bahadurs of BRF: The flare release pattern was different and density of flares was markedly high in case of the Embrarer as compared to the IL-78 and AN-32. (though AN-32 did release flares for a very long time) The same is visible in pics above. I've seen the same pattern, where very high density of flares are released, in the pics of large body western a/c. Please see the pics in the link here: http://images.google.co.in/images?hl=en ... a=N&tab=wi

Is there any difference in the way Russian and western a/c deploy flare or are the AN-32/IL-76 also capable of deploying flares in Embrarer manner? Any pro and cons? Thanx.
Juggi G
BRFite
Posts: 1070
Joined: 11 Mar 2007 19:16
Location: Martyr Bhagat Singh Nagar District, Doaba, Punjab, Bharat. De Ghuma ke :)

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Juggi G »

India, France to Sign Mirage Upgrade Deal
The Indian Express
India, France to Sign Mirage Upgrade Deal
Manu Pubby

Posted : Monday, Mar 01, 2010 at 0312 hrs
New Delhi

India is Set to Sign a $2.2-billion Deal with France to upgrade its fleet of Mirage 2000 fighters ahead of an expected visit by President Nicolas Sarkozy later this year.

The upgrade deal, which had been hanging fire for the past two years due to differences over the price, is likely to be concluded shortly after final negotiations, top Defence Ministry sources said.

The Upgrade, which will give the Aircraft new Radar Systems, a New Weapon Suite, Missiles, Electronic Warfare System and Modern Electronic Warfare, is crucial for the India Air Force as it would also give its Most Potent Fighter :?: an extension in service life. The Deal will Upgrade 51 of the Fighters in the IAF’s inventory which proved their mettle during the Kargil war by delivering precision-guided bombs.

Air Chief Marshal P V Naik has said that a team will shortly be arriving from Paris to carry out the commercial negotiations. However, top Defence ministry sources said that the deal will finally be inked to coincide with Sarkozy’s visit, dates for which are still to be finalised.

The deal had been stuck for the past two years primarily due to differences of the price being offered by French manufacturers Dassault and Thales. After going through the Requirements of the IAF, which included New Radars for the Fighter, France had Initially Quoted a Price close to $3 Billion for the Upgrade. This was coming to about $58 million per Aircraft, which, the IAF Argued, was almost the Price of a Brand New Fighter Jet.

In the Revised Deal, the cost per Aircraft is coming to $43 million, which, according to Experts, is Still High. The Government, However, has Decided to Ink the Deal, given that the upgrade is crucial for the IAF which is battling with an ageing fleet of Russian origin MiG aircraft.

France is also Keen that India Approve the Maitri air-to-surface Low-Level Quick Reaction Missile (LLQRM), which has been jointly developed by the DRDO and France’s MBDA.

While the Missile’s Final Design has been Locked Up and a MoU has also been Signed between DRDO and MBDA, the Government is still to give a Final Go Ahead for the Joint Project.
Doesn't 43 million $ + couple million $ more, Supposedly buy a Brand new built Gripen NG with Swash-Plate Aesa Radar with Meteor Integration & all the Rest of the State of the Art Stuff.
So wouldn't Buying Spanking new Gripen NGs be better than Upgrading more than 2 Decade old Mirages, which willl still be without an Aesa Radar & Meteor or Comparable BVR Missile after the Upgrade. How does all of this Work
Why is the IAF Not Pushed or Bothered that the Quite Costly Mid-Life Upgrades for the Mirage & the Mig-29 are with slotted array radars instead of AESA or PESA Radars , when these jets are supposed to be in frontline service for another 15 years for sure :?:
After these Costly Mid-Life Upgrades for the Mirage & the Mig-29 sans Aesa Radars, will it make Economic Sense to retrofit them with Aesa Radars another 5,6 or 7 years from now or not :?:
OR is the IAF waiting for the Next & Newer Generation of Aesa Radars :?:
sunnyv
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 23
Joined: 25 Feb 2010 15:38
Location: INDIA

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by sunnyv »

Doesn't 43 million $ + couple million $ more, Supposedly buy a Brand new built Gripen NG with Swash-Plate Aesa Radar with Meteor Integration & all the Rest of the State of the Art Stuff.
So wouldn't Buying Spanking new Gripen NGs be better than Upgrading more than 2 Decade old Mirages, which willl still be without an Aesa Radar & Meteor or Comparable BVR Missile after the Upgrade. How does all of this Work
• Why is the IAF Not Pushed or Bothered that the Quite Costly Mid-Life Upgrades for the Mirage & the Mig-29 are with slotted array radars instead of AESA or PESA Radars , when these jets are supposed to be in frontline service for another 15 years for sure
• After these Costly Mid-Life Upgrades for the Mirage & the Mig-29 sans Aesa Radars, will it make Economic Sense to retrofit them with Aesa Radars another 5,6 or 7 years from now or not
PLZ dont forget , this deal also includes weapons package and suit
Cost of a single ASRAAM is 1.5 million
MICA-IR costs abt 2 million
A2G weapons are in addition
New generation pods might be part of package - like saudi's had
scalp and storm shadow etc
Even if we purchase 200 mica its cost will be close to .5 billion .
Our airforce is not stupid to spend 2 billion on a package that dosen't give them value for money, or a overwhelming avantage over enemies for that matter.
Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3565
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Aditya G »

Time to update the IAF squadron page:
3002 Squadron (Cat's Eye) recorded the entire Vayu Shakti demo.
RoyG
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5620
Joined: 10 Aug 2009 05:10

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by RoyG »

Any ToT comin from Mirage upgrade deal?
Craig Alpert
BRFite
Posts: 1440
Joined: 09 Oct 2009 17:36
Location: Behind Enemy Lines

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Craig Alpert »

Image Image Image
Garuds Guarding Vayu Shakti. Note the INSAS in use by the highly trained Forces.
Speaking on Highly trained, also note the ABSENSE of:
BPJ, Helmets/Patkas, Gloves, pads and neck armor. I would want to hold off on my remark on a better weapon, but DEFINITELY in the need for additional weapons (i.e. ubgls, optics, sights, thermal/ir and NVG's)
SaiK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 36424
Joined: 29 Oct 2003 12:31
Location: NowHere

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by SaiK »

http://news.combataircraft.com/readnews.aspx?i=698

..the sale of 10 C-17s to India -- could help the line stay open an additional year. In a complicated process, India's purchase request must first pass muster with the State Department and Congress.
needs muster still?
Kartik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5722
Joined: 04 Feb 2004 12:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Kartik »

Juggi G wrote: Doesn't 43 million $ + couple million $ more, Supposedly buy a Brand new built Gripen NG with Swash-Plate Aesa Radar with Meteor Integration & all the Rest of the State of the Art Stuff.
A brand new Gripen NG will cost around $60-65 million not $45 million. Add to that the associated costs for setting up ground training facilities, simulators, cost for ToT and HAL to buy and build tools to overhaul and maintain Gripen NGs. Plus the part where you need to train 60-70 Mirage pilots or more to use the 51 Gripen NGs. That cost and the effort spent on it is skipped when we get the Mirage-2000-5 level upgrades. Oh and the $65 million doesn't include the cost of weapons, which you'll need to buy separately, and its not cheap.

So wouldn't Buying Spanking new Gripen NGs be better than Upgrading more than 2 Decade old Mirages, which willl still be without an Aesa Radar & Meteor or Comparable BVR Missile after the Upgrade. How does all of this Work
Is there an AESA radar on PAF's brand new Block 52 F-16s or its upgraded F-16A/Bs? no. Does it still constitute the biggest threat to the IAF's fighter fleet ? yes. Does the J-11B have an AESA ? No. Does the J-10A have an AESA ? no. clearly, the biggest threats in our region are still mechanically scanned slotted array radar fighters. AESA is not the be-all and end-all. the MiG-29UPGs are getting Zhuk-ME, the IN's brand new MiG-29Ks are with Zhuk-ME and they don't have Meteor either. that doesn't mean that they're not capable enough to tackle the threat they face.

• Why is the IAF Not Pushed or Bothered that the Quite Costly Mid-Life Upgrades for the Mirage & the Mig-29 are with slotted array radars instead of AESA or PESA Radars , when these jets are supposed to be in frontline service for another 15 years for sure
Because it costs money and takes a lot of time to integrate these into fighters. Only with the F-16, of which there are thousands in service worldwide, are there retrofit AESA radars available now (actually 2). Both RACR and SABR were developed on company funds (NG and Raytheon) and both are projects that went on for several years and have still not entered production. The key goals were to use the existing power on the F-16s for running the radar and for cooling as well. Both were big challenges that were overcome with substantial effort, especially cooling as AESA radars require a lot of it. Both were developed on company funds because they could sell hundreds if not thousands of these retrofit AESA radars to customers who have large F-16 fleets (like Israel, South Korea, Turkey or Egypt).

If the IAF wanted AESA or PESA radars for its MiG-29/Mirage-2000 upgrades, they would need to pay for the entire program costs for developing/integrating/ground-testing/flight testing. Even if you take existing AESA radars (as the APG-79 was used as the baseline to develop Raytheon's RACR) as a baseline to develop a retrofit AESA for a legacy platform, it takes years to modify, perfect it and tailor its power and cooling requirements to the fighter platform's available power. Otherwise you embark on a costly program to start modifying parts on the legacy platform, flight testing and qualifying them.

So you'd be adding several years to the upgrade programs, which means you use the fighters as is for even longer, which beats the very purpose of the upgrade.

A modified Mirage-2000B served as the test-bed for the Rafale's PESA RBE-2 radar. There was a pic on BRF a long time ago that showed its specially modified nose for accomodating the RBE-2. However, the RDY-2's range and performance will give the RBE-2 a good run for its money, while being cheaper to acquire and not needing any further development, which also drives down costs. If IAF insisted on a PESA or AESA radar for its Mirage-2000s, Dassault would've agreed, but the costs would be un-affordable. Pure and simple.

On the MiG-29 upgrade, what AESA is ready for service ? the Zhuk-AE's back-end is so large that you cannot fit a regular 1000 T/R modules into its antenna and so we have to make do with the 600 odd T/R modules as demonstrated on the MiG-35. and the range with that is only marginally better than that of the Zhuk. So why would you want to pay several millions of $ more, and wait some more years to get an AESA ?

• After these Costly Mid-Life Upgrades for the Mirage & the Mig-29 sans Aesa Radars, will it make Economic Sense to retrofit them with Aesa Radars another 5,6 or 7 years from now or not
• OR is the IAF waiting for the Next & Newer Generation of Aesa Radars


IMO, they won't. the radars we see today in the upgrade will almost surely be the ones that these fighters will retire with. the IAF will spend money on stocking up spares for these radars, developing infrastructure to maintain them, and training technicians to do that job. Why would you throw it all away in 5-6 years which is around the time that the entire fleet will be operational, and with the radars that have plenty of life left in them? besides, the IAF will still have 238 Bars equipped MKIs and some MRCAs that will have AESA and can act like the cutting edge of the spear. Maybe some of the MKIs would have started going through the MLU which will likely give them an AESA radar.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Singha »

the garuds who went off the Mi17 to demolish the mock radar were wearing BPJ etc.

I figure this detail is more for "show" than real security - the real security detail would be further out
in vehicles, stationed along some perimeter. for the President there would be some other SPG? detail too.
Natt
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 76
Joined: 17 Jan 2010 01:26
Location: Where eagles dare

Re: Indian Military Aviation

Post by Natt »

I agree that it could be a little 'show' security with plenty more around. However, a lil bling does no harm and the PR s all good.
Locked