Indian Army: News & Discussion

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 01 Apr 2010 04:39

US Has Excellent Military Ties With India: Pentagon

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 01 Apr 2010 05:37

strategypage is complete garbage. please don't post from it.

Rajput · Post by **Rajput** » 01 Apr 2010 10:10

VinodTK wrote:..EDIT..

Have you ever been to a recruitment rally, especially in the North? There are 500 people lined up for each vacancy.
And in the US, the military (except the Marines) are having to lower standards to get enough recruits. People with
minor criminal offences who would have been rejected in the past are now being let in.

Now, officer shortage is a different story...

prabhug · Post by **prabhug** » 01 Apr 2010 11:27

Hi
I planning to prepare a presentation for government schools(Age group of 15-18) on the opportunities they have with defense services.If anybody wants to give me hand or share me material.Please message me .I have a very little experience about defense services.This is going to be a free service.

Cheers
Prabhu.G

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 01 Apr 2010 13:05

Army ready for Any Challenges from Enemies, Especially China: Army Chief
The Indic Post

anirban_aim · Post by **anirban_aim** » 01 Apr 2010 13:07

prabhug wrote:Hi
I planning to prepare a presentation for government schools(Age group of 15-18) on the opportunities they have with defense services.If anybody wants to give me hand or share me material.Please message me .I have a very little experience about defense services.This is going to be a free service.

Cheers
Prabhu.G

Dear Prabhu,

A most noble gesture. Do you have a template/format in mind? What is the time line for completion?

shukla · Post by **shukla** » 01 Apr 2010 18:04

Antony sees ‘hot summer’ for security forces

Defence Minister A.K. Antony on Thursday said the security forces will be experiencing a “hot summer” this year as those hostile to India’s interest are trying to infiltrate more and more terrorists into the country.

“Those inimical to India’s interest are sending more and more terrorists across the border and the summer is going to be a hot summer as far as security is concerned,” Mr. Antony told reporters after the launch of INS Chennai, the third destroyer under project 15 A, built by Mazgaon Docks for the Indian Navy.

The Army is ready to face attempts to sneak in more and more terrorists across the border this summer, the Minister said.

negi · Post by **negi** » 01 Apr 2010 19:01

Stop treating army men like 'beggars', SC to govt

The apex court passed the order dismissing the Centre's appeal challenging a Punjab and Haryana High Court direction to pay higher pension to C S Siddu, a Short Commissioned Officer whose right arm had to be amputated due to an accident while on duty at the high altitudes on November November 21, 1970.

"The army personnel are bravely defending the country even at the cost of their lives and we feel they should be treated in a better and more humane manner by government authorities, particularly, in respect of their emoluments, pension and other benefits," the bench said in an order.

There was an element of drama in the court when Additional Solicitor General Parag Tripathi pleaded with the court not to use "strong words" in the order like "beggars," "niggardly" "miserly", following which the bench dropped them from the written order.

"We regret to say that the army officers and army men in our country are being treated in a shabby manner by the government. In this case, the respondent,(Sidhu) who was posted at a high altitude field area and met with an accident during discharge of his duties was granted a meagre pension. This is a pittance (about Rs 1000) per month plus D.A.

Rs 1000 pm to a commissioned officer who retired in 1970

.

--sicky unglee

ashish raval · Post by **ashish raval** » 01 Apr 2010 19:15

WTF !! is this a April Fools joke of somekind ! You will not get a month's milk/ghee ration in this amount ! One needs atleast Rs.10,000/month just for decent survival even in a small town. Really ridiculous of govt. if this is indeed the case.

joshvajohn · Post by **joshvajohn** » 01 Apr 2010 20:12

negi wrote:Stop treating army men like 'beggars', SC to govt

I have written this long back (two years back in this forum) saying we should not treat our soldiers as beggers. I am happy that SC has reiterated it. Indian government does not respect her own courageous warriors. I think it is right time to rethink serious revisions of pensions and other salaries. I understand there is a higher end of salary for some top posts in Army. But there should be some reasonable pensions for retired officers.

On the other hand We do not need to recruit in large numbers unless we pay them with a reasonable salary. By going for a higher ends of technology and sophistication of arms, we may have reasonable but less fighters with higher ends of salary system. Also pension system should be linked with some investments so that they can opt for different schemes.

alok p · Post by **alok p** » 01 Apr 2010 20:24

High time the SC came out with such observations. Completely expected of Justice Katju as well

.

As Panel Advocates appearing for the Govt. in the Supreme Court, we see far too many cases of the Govt. fighting with ex-servicemen over paltry amounts and petty matters and taking appeals all the way to the Supreme Court. To be fair, there are also ex-servicemen who simply cannot abide a being in the wrong and keep appealing (unsuccessfully) to the Supreme Court for small issues.

The problem is that there is no serious check on the Govt. litigating all the way to the Supreme Court even for petty matters. Even though, on paper, the Govt. is supposed to get an opinion from an Additional Solicitor General of India before filing petitions in the Supreme Court, more often than not, ASGs give opinions to file petitions as a matter of course and very few apply their mind to see the merits of the case.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 01 Apr 2010 20:42

The problem is that there is no serious check on the Govt. litigating all the way to the Supreme Court even for petty matters.

Is the SC obliged to hear all matters brought before it?

munna · Post by **munna** » 01 Apr 2010 20:46

Gerard wrote:
The problem is that there is no serious check on the Govt. litigating all the way to the Supreme Court even for petty matters.
Is the SC obliged to hear all matters brought before it?

Technically speaking a court case cannot progress automatically all the way up to SC without the respective HC's consent-unless it involves a question of interpretation of constitution or larger impact of law. Generally the HCs oblige the government and let such cases go to the SC. In some cases direct approach to SC is also possible.

alok p · Post by **alok p** » 01 Apr 2010 21:13

Gerard wrote:
The problem is that there is no serious check on the Govt. litigating all the way to the Supreme Court even for petty matters.
Is the SC obliged to hear all matters brought before it?

More or less... without turning an Indian army thread into a Supreme Court appeals class, a few points abt SC litigation.

1. The Court can grant "Special Leave" to appeal against any decision in its absolute discretion.
2. It always gives a hearing to the party seeking the "Special Leave" before deciding whether to dismiss it at the first step or giving the opposing party a chance to respond.
3. In some instances it is possible to approach the Supreme Court directly, but this option is available only in a very few cases (nowadays mostly PILs)
4. Some laws provide for an appeal to the Supreme Court from High Court whether or not High Court which heard the case gives certificate to appeal.

The bulk of the cases overburdening the SC right now are the ones where parties seek "Special Leave" to appeal. This is also the route the govt. generally takes to appeal cases that go against it in the High Courts and other Tribunals.

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 01 Apr 2010 22:39

New Indian Army chief to focus on core values

A day after assuming charge as the Indian Army chief, Gen V.K. Singh Thursday said his focus would be on ‘core values’ to improve the ‘internal health’ of the force to enable it meet external challenges.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 02 Apr 2010 10:24

http://www.dailypioneer.com/246158/Dont ... rs-SC.html

Don't treat army men like beggars: SC

Friday, April 2, 2010
PTI | New Delhi

The Supreme Court has slammed the union government for treating army personnel like "beggars" in respect of emoluments and pension and asked the authorities to adopt a more "humane approach" towards those bravely defending the country's borders.

"If a person goes to any part of Delhi and sits for begging, he will earn Rs 1000 every day and you are offering a pittance of Rs 1000 per month for a man who fought for the country in the high altitudes and whose arm was amputated?

"Is this the way you treat those brave army officers? It is unfortunate that you are treating them like beggars," a bench of Justices Markandeya Katju and A K Patnaik said in verbal comments while passing the order.

The apex court passed the order dismissing the Centre's appeal challenging a Punjab and Haryana High Court direction to pay higher pension to C S Siddu, a Short Commissioned Officer whose right arm had to be amputated due to an accident while on duty at the high altitudes on November November 21, 1970.

"The army personnel are bravely defending the country even at the cost of their lives and we feel they should be treated in a better and more humane manner by government authorities, particularly, in respect of their emoluments, pension and other benefits," the bench said in an order.

There was an element of drama in the court when Additional Solicitor General Parag Tripathi pleaded with the court not to use "strong words" in the order like "beggars," "niggardly" "miserly", following which the bench dropped them from the written order.

"We regret to say that the army officers and army men in our country are being treated in a shabby manner by the government. In this case, the respondent,(Sidhu) who was posted at a high altitude field area and met with an accident during discharge of his duties was granted a meagre pension. This is a pittance (about Rs 1000) per month plus DA

"If this is the manner in which the army personnel are treated, it can only be said that it is extremely unfortunate," the bench however, noted in its written order.

sumshyam · Post by **sumshyam** » 02 Apr 2010 11:02

5 defence accounts officials arrested on graft charges

The CBI has arrested five officials in the office of Principal Controller of Defence Accounts, Chandigarh in a bribery case.

ASPuar · Post by **ASPuar** » 02 Apr 2010 12:12

chetak wrote: Don't treat army men like beggars: SC

"The army personnel are bravely defending the country even at the cost of their lives and we feel they should be treated in a better and more humane manner by government authorities, particularly, in respect of their emoluments, pension and other benefits," the bench said in an order.

There was an element of drama in the court when Additional Solicitor General Parag Tripathi pleaded with the court not to use "strong words" in the order like "beggars," "niggardly" "miserly", following which the bench dropped them from the written order.

"We regret to say that the army officers and army men in our country are being treated in a shabby manner by the government. In this case, the respondent,(Sidhu) who was posted at a high altitude field area and met with an accident during discharge of his duties was granted a meagre pension. This is a pittance (about Rs 1000) per month plus DA

"If this is the manner in which the army personnel are treated, it can only be said that it is extremely unfortunate," the bench however, noted in its written order.

Shhhh... Some of our esteemed birather posters will get angry.

After all, according to them, there is no problem with the service conditions and compensation of the armed forces personnel. There is nothing niggardly or miserly about the compensation provided by the govt to the armed forces, and they certainly arent being beggared!

Lets sweep this kind of thing under the carpet quickly!

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 02 Apr 2010 13:00

sumshyam wrote:5 defence accounts officials arrested on graft charges

The CBI has arrested five officials in the office of Principal Controller of Defence Accounts, Chandigarh in a bribery case.

Why is this in IA thread?

The officials arrested are not army personnel but civilians.

negi · Post by **negi** » 02 Apr 2010 19:46

ASPuar wrote: After all, according to them, there is no problem with the service conditions and compensation of the armed forces personnel. There is nothing niggardly or miserly about the compensation provided by the govt to the armed forces, and they certainly arent being beggared!

You are overreacting for compensation being provided to those currently in service as per 6th pay commission recommendations vs the pension being awarded to retirees are two different issues , don't try to use one to twist the argument .

Also there is really something amiss in this particular case for my grandfather who retired way before the gentleman in question used to draw more than 1000 INR in pension (after 5th pay commission recommendations were implemented) and he was not a commissioned officer.

Lastly one rank one pension is a different issue and deserves separate discussion.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 03 Apr 2010 22:09

Indian Army Scouts For New 120mm Mortar System

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 03 Apr 2010 22:12

Sigh

another import

Bheem · Post by **Bheem** » 03 Apr 2010 23:31

I had pointed out that a few weeks back in some thread about Indian army interest in imported 120mm mortars and as usual we had Ray C jumping in to deny it/protect the army

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 03 Apr 2010 23:35

putnanja wrote:Indian Army Scouts For New 120mm Mortar System

I dont blame them.. Whats available in the international market is this

http://www.patriahagglunds.fi/amos.html

And whats available in the domestic market is this

http://www.drdo.org/labs/cvrde/achieve.html (scroll down)

Theyll probably buy the turret, smart round technology and mount it on BMP2, something that could be achieved in less than 2-3 years. Something purely domestic would not be available for at least twice that much time.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 03 Apr 2010 23:55

[quote="sudeepj"Indian Army Scouts For New 120mm Mortar System

I dont blame them.. Whats available in the international market is this

http://www.patriahagglunds.fi/amos.html

And whats available in the domestic market is this

http://www.drdo.org/labs/cvrde/achieve.html (scroll down)

Theyll probably buy the turret, smart round technology and mount it on BMP2, something that could be achieved in less than 2-3 years. Something purely domestic would not be available for at least twice that much time.[/quote]

DRDO has already tested a 81mm mortar on a BMP1/2. I think it is in service with IA.

DRDO had tested the 120 mm mortar on a BMP 1/2 but it did not work out, the recoil was too much for the poor little BMP. At that time DRDO/IA were to take the help of Israel to install a 120 mm mortar on a BMP. Israel ois also believed to have offered us the Cardom 120 mm mortar. I do not know what happened next

K

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 04 Apr 2010 00:00

sudeepj wrote: I dont blame them.. Whats available in the international market is this
http://www.patriahagglunds.fi/amos.html
And whats available in the domestic market is this
http://www.drdo.org/labs/cvrde/achieve.html (scroll down)
Theyll probably buy the turret, smart round technology and mount it on BMP2, something that could be achieved in less than 2-3 years. Something purely domestic would not be available for at least twice that much time.

Before you pass your expert opinion on domestic product, do you bother to check the facts? Where does the article says that IA is looking at 'automatic breach loading' mortart system? And as for the AMOS, it is in operation with grand total of 2 countries. Most armies world wide employ tracked mortar carriers for their mechnized forces equipped with their standard army wide mortar system.

Look at this: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M120_mortar
And now look at these:
a) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M1129_Mortar_Carrier
b)http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/land/m121.htm

And why are you assuming that the mortar is for mechanized infantry? IA has still not issued (afaik) 120mm caliber mortars to infantry/mechanized infantry units. IA infantry units still hold 81mm mortars. These 120mm mortars are either for the Light Regiments of Regiment of Artillery or IA has decided to upgun the organic fire support of the Infantry and Mechanized Infantry Units.

Added later - for context:

The US Army uses three types of mortar for indirect fire support when heavier artillery may not be appropriate or available. The smallest of these is the 60 mm M224, normally assigned at the infantry company level.[32] At the next higher echelon, infantry battalions are typically supported by a section of 81 mm M252 mortars.[33] The largest mortar in the Army's inventory is the 120 mm M120/M121, usually employed by mechanized battalions, Stryker units, and cavalry troops because its size and weight require it to be transported in a tracked carrier or towed behind a truck.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 04 Apr 2010 00:15

rohitvats wrote:
sudeepj wrote: I dont blame them.. Whats available in the international market is this
http://www.patriahagglunds.fi/amos.html
And whats available in the domestic market is this
http://www.drdo.org/labs/cvrde/achieve.html (scroll down)
Theyll probably buy the turret, smart round technology and mount it on BMP2, something that could be achieved in less than 2-3 years. Something purely domestic would not be available for at least twice that much time.
Before you pass your expert opinion on domestic product, do you bother to check the facts? Where does the article says that IA is looking at 'automatic breach loading' mortart system? And as for the AMOS, it is in operation with grand total of 2 countries. Most armies world wide employ tracked mortar carriers for their mechnized forces equipped with their standard army wide mortar system.

The article doesnt say that, I assumed that to be the case because it doesnt make much sense to buy a plain old 120 mm mortar, my guess is that could be developed on the cheap domestically. That the AMOS is eons ahead of the 81 mm mounted on the BMP is fairly obvious, no 'experts' needed - gps guided rounds, multiple round simultaneous impact capability, capable of operating in NBC. If the BMP2 mounted mortar is to be replaced, something like the AMOS would be the logical choice, no?

Ofcourse I could be wrong, and the IA does want something like the M120 or just a larger version of the 81mm we have in operation currently.. In which case I will find it a little difficult to understand the rationale.

And why are you assuming that the mortar is for mechanized infantry? IA has still not issued (afaik) 120mm caliber mortars to infantry/mechanized infantry units. IA infantry units still hold 81mm mortars. These 120mm mortars are either for the Light Regiments of Regiment of Artillery or IA has decided to upgun the organic fire support of the Infantry and Mechanized Infantry Units.

My guess was the latter. I was aware of the fact that we make 81mm mortars domestically, and that these are in wide use (even by BSF), not aware that we make any 120 mm tubes or ammo domestically. I am willing to be corrected

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 04 Apr 2010 01:39

The article doesnt say that, I assumed that to be the case because it doesnt make much sense to buy a plain old 120 mm mortar, my guess is that could be developed on the cheap domestically. That the AMOS is eons ahead of the 81 mm mounted on the BMP is fairly obvious, no 'experts' needed - gps guided rounds, multiple round simultaneous impact capability, capable of operating in NBC. If the BMP2 mounted mortar is to be replaced, something like the AMOS would be the logical choice, no?

So you assumed two things here - IA needed a breach loading mortar and also a replacement for BMP mounted 81mm system. This without knowing that 81mm mortar is integral to Mechanized Infantry Regiments and IA does not issue 120mm mortars to Infantry Regiment - mechanized or otherwise? That 120mm mortars in IA are held by Light Regiments with two batteries of 6 mortars each? So, please tell me, in light of above, where does RFI for 120mm mortars stand in relation to your replacement theory of BMP Tracked Mortar Carrier?

And can you tell me what is plain old thing about 120mm mortar? Last I checked US Army was inducting the Stryker M1129 Mortar Carriers with Soltam 120mm mortars.

Ofcourse I could be wrong, and the IA does want something like the M120 or just a larger version of the 81mm we
have in operation currently.. In which case I will find it a little difficult to understand the rationale.

What does the statement 'larger version of 81mm mean'? And as for rationale, is it not possible that IA needs to induct newer versions of mortars into its arsenal? And how come the rationale is defeated if we don't go for the vaunted AMOS? This is what internet tells me about the Cardom:

The cardom (Hatchet), is a soltam systems 120mm Recoil Mortar System (RMS), used by the US army the Israeli Defence Force NATO countries and others. The cardom is an autonomous, computerized system for mounting on light and medium armored carriers. the system provides accurate and effective fire support

The system uses a new Computerized Integrated Navigation, Self Positioning and Aiming systems. Its modern Target Acquisition Devices together with special designed Recoiling Mortar System attenuates the firing loads and enables mounting the systems on wheeled and soft AFV's, or even trucks. The CARDOM Aiming mechanisms are linked to state-of-the-art command, control and communication systems, to achieve quick response automatic laying mode. The IDF delivered Cardom system takes target acquisition data, that provides range, bearing, position and other data from an observation position and transmits it direct to the Cardom system. Using electrical servo motors the mortar barrel is then set to the exact traverse and elevation angles ready for firing.

The Cardom has a burst rate of 16 rpm, followed by a 4 rpm sustained rate of fire. The Cardom Recoil Mortar System has been qualified for fielding with the 3rd US Army Stryker brigade, and will be coupled to the US Army's M95 Mortar Fire Control System. Over 320 mortars where manufactured for the US Army.

The above stuff does sound fancy enough and advanced to me as compared to plain jai mortars we have been operating.

My guess was the latter. I was aware of the fact that we make 81mm mortars domestically, and that these are in wide use (even by BSF), not aware that we make any 120 mm tubes or ammo domestically. I am willing to be corrected

If your guess was the latter, where does the AMOS fit into the picture? What is the unit price of AMOS? Google tells me that it is in the range of $4million dollar. Now, for an army of our size, how many we might need and how many can we afford?

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 04 Apr 2010 01:48

^^^

now we can rehash the 2008 debate we had on BRF on the very subject..500 kg DRDO 120 mm mortar with 10 km range vs 300 kg Israeli one with 9 km range.

so in last year and half nothing happend?

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 04 Apr 2010 02:04

sunilUpa wrote:^^^ now we can rehash the 2008 debate we had on BRF on the very subject..500 kg DRDO 120 mm mortar with 10 km range vs 300 kg Israeli one with 9 km range.

so in last year and half nothing happend?

Was actually going to come to that?

But why has IA sent RFI to US firms when US Army itself uses Soltam 120mm mortars?

Juggi G · Post by **Juggi G** » 04 Apr 2010 02:10

India Ups the Ante on China

The Pioneer

FRONT PAGE | Saturday, April 3, 2010

India Ups the Ante on China

Rahul Datta | New Delhi

Centre Okays Raising of 2 Mountain Divisions

In a major decision aimed at countering the growing threats from China, the Government has sanctioned raising of two mountain divisions (20,000 troops) to be deployed on the India-China border. Taking the urgency of the situation into account, the Government has lifted a 37-year-old freeze on making fresh recruitment for the China-centric mountain division.

The Army was raising new units in the last 25 years from within its existing sanctioned troop strength. One division has about 10,000 men.

At present, the Army has two divisions and the sanction for two more divisions will help the Army plug all operational gaps and help it defend its eastern and western borders and wage two-front war if need be.

The Cabinet Committee on Security (CCS) recently gave the go-ahead to the Army to raise two more mountain divisions, sources said here on Friday. The Government has also decided to speed up the process to procure specialised weaponry needed for mountain warfare.

China was rapidly modernising its armed forces and strengthening the infrastructure all along the 4,500-km Line of Actual Control(LAC). Acknowledging the fact that China’s preparedness was better, India took a series of steps like improving road network in States like Arunachal Pradesh and Raising Specialised Mountain Divisions, sources said.

They, however, claimed that These Mountain Divisions would be Trained to Fight a Two-Front War Simultaneously with China and Pakistan as the Army was now Capable of Rapidly Transferring Troops from One Theatre to Another at a Very Short Notice.

Elaborating upon the decision to remove the cap on fresh recruitments, sources said the Army raised the first two divisions from within its existing resources. It stretched the Army’s resources and realising its adverse impact on preparedness, the Government allowed additional recruitments.

With the hike in sanctioned manpower strength, the Army would now have more elbow room to rapidly raise the two divisions and train them in the shortest possible time. Moreover, the Government asked the Army to Hasten the Process of Procuring Howitzer Guns Aptly Suited for Mountain Warfare.

The Army planned to go in for more than 200 Howitzer Guns which can be Carried on Horse Back or in Helicopters to the Remotest Posts in the Rugged Mountain Terrain in Jammu & Kashmir and North-East.

The guns were likely to procured through the foreign military sale (FMS) route from the US, sources said.

Incidentally, the new Army chief General VK Singh said on Thursday infrastructure development in border States facing China was “slightly behind” and the Government was giving due attention to this fact.

Stating that China was not only focusing on modernising its armed forces in Tibet and the stress was now on making Chinese soldiers operate in a digitised battlefield. Giving reasons for slow pace of infrastructure development on the Indian side, he said the terrain was “friendly” on the Chinese side as it was a plateau. However, the terrain was mountainous on our side thereby making it all the more difficult for fast road building, he said.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 04 Apr 2010 02:18

self deleted. double post.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 04 Apr 2010 02:21

Juggi G wrote: Centre Okays Raising of 2 Mountain Divisions.........<SNIP>

You can expect our DDM brigade to be completely out of syn with matters military and present numbers in a jumbled way...it is left to the readers to figure out the meaning...

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 04 Apr 2010 02:24

Juggi G wrote:
The Army planned to go in for more than 200 Howitzer Guns which can be Carried on Horse Back or in Helicopters to the Remotest Posts in the Rugged Mountain Terrain in Jammu & Kashmir and North-East.

Nothing surprising about that. After all, why else would we have RVC? Mules are very much used to deliver man and material in remote areas (like siachen).[/quote]
ADDED LATER:
If you get the chance, you should visit the RVC stud farm in Hissar. Its amazingly huge and the pure bred horses you would see there would make others look like mules. Hell, even their mules seem stronger than regular horses. When I had visited the place, the most magnificent beast they had was a black Arabian horse named Volcano. Its cost was estimated to be Rs 80 lakhs.

So it was not surprising for me afterward to see that their premiere horses' sheds were cooled with Air conditioners while the poor RVC vetenary officers managed with ceiling fan in hot Harayana summer.

sunilUpa · Post by **sunilUpa** » 04 Apr 2010 02:26

rohitvats wrote:
sunilUpa wrote:^^^ now we can rehash the 2008 debate we had on BRF on the very subject..500 kg DRDO 120 mm mortar with 10 km range vs 300 kg Israeli one with 9 km range.

so in last year and half nothing happend?
Was actually going to come to that?
But why has IA sent RFI to US firms when US Army itself uses Soltam 120mm mortars?

Must be a new SOP..send all RFIs to masa, even if the item in Masa is manufactured in India.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 04 Apr 2010 02:45

..<SNIP>Nothing surprising about that. After all, why else would we have RVC? Mules are very much used to deliver man and material in remote areas (like siachen)...<SNIP>

Sirji, the main role of RVC is restricted to breeding and providing mules (Mountain Artillery-MA and General Service-GS) to the respective units. ASC has the Animal Transport(AT) battalions. IIRC, Mountain Artillery Regiments also maintain MA mules in their establishment.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 04 Apr 2010 03:04

^^
Yes, you are correct. But I do not think that I implied otherwise in my post.

ASC, as you obviously know, has many other roles other than using mules for supply. I mentioned RVC because its primary job is to, as you yourself said, provide animals for transport( and for other purposes?).
And please, no need for sirji

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 04 Apr 2010 04:05

Rohit, I have no wish to engage in a pissing contest with you, neither do I claim to be any kind of expert like you

My simple observation was, IA needs a smarter mortar system, with GPS or otherwise guided smart projectiles.

Why? - They have tried to acquire smarter munitions, like Krasnopol, it follows by inductive logic that they would want a smarter mortar round too, something that inflicts a lot more damage without raising the temprature on our hot borders a lot.

If theres a mortar system with such capabilities available domestically, I am not aware of that.

Cost and other considerations will definitely play a role in the evntual decision, but that doesnt rule out IA asking for RFPs, does it?

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Apr 2010 04:47

Has this Rand monograph been discussed?
http://www.rand.org/pubs/monographs/MG836/index.html

Preparing and Training for the Full Spectrum of Military Challenges
Insights from the Experiences of China, France, the United Kingdom, India, and Israel
Cover: Preparing and Training for the Full Spectrum of Military Challenges: Insights from the Experiences of China, France, the United Kingdom, India, and Israel

By: David E. Johnson, Jennifer D. P. Moroney, Roger Cliff, M. Wade Markel, Laurence Smallman, Michael Spirtas

The U.S. military training system is the envy of many countries around the world, so what can the United States learn from other militaries about how better to prepare for full-spectrum operations and deployments? The authors examine the militaries of China, France, the UK, India, and Israel to identify different approaches to readiness, adaptability, and operational issues, including

* using subject-matter experts to improve training for specific deployments
* using staff training to prepare forces for multiple contingencies
* allowing combat training centers to focus on foundational skills
* preparing units for a specific operational environment prior to deployment.
....

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 04 Apr 2010 04:52

^^
This was certainly posted here sometime back. However, I do not remember much discussion taking place regarding this article.