International Military Discussion

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 16 Jul 2014 07:00

WORK COMMENCES ON EXPERIMENTAL SPACEPLANE (XS-1) DESIGNS

http://www.darpa.mil/NewsEvents/Release ... 07/15.aspx

http://www.spacenews.com/article/military-space/41263three-teams-to-develop-spaceplane-concepts-for-darpa

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 16 Jul 2014 07:19

^^^^If the Boeing ct-100 capsule doesn't make the contract cut at the end of this summer this may be a consolation prize for them. I also notice blue origin, the amazon Jeff Bezos project, has joined the project. this will be really interesting. darpa does good work. A single stage space plane to orbit would fulfill a number of science fiction predictions.

addendum: after further reading the article it does not mention sending the space plane to orbit. The space plane would merely boost a second stage to launch and then return back to earth. oh well, maybe someday.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Jul 2014 07:49

virgin galactic has already done it to some extent.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 16 Jul 2014 07:51

TSJones wrote:
addendum: after further reading the article it does not mention sending the space plane to orbit. The space plane would merely boost a second stage to launch and then return back to earth. oh well, maybe someday.

That would be this

XS1 is for larger payloads, with the ALASA for micro sats

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 16 Jul 2014 08:28

^^^^Now that right there is top secret double probation gear. unfortunately in order to launch the x-37b you have to use a multi stage rocket to launch it to orbit. it's expensive to burn up a lot of gear to get the plane in orbit. that is why it stays in orbit so long. it's expensive to launch another one. so I definitely see where darpa is coming from, I just wish they would take it a step further.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 16 Jul 2014 10:00

TSJones wrote:^^^^Now that right there is top secret double probation gear. unfortunately in order to launch the x-37b you have to use a multi stage rocket to launch it to orbit. it's expensive to burn up a lot of gear to get the plane in orbit. that is why it stays in orbit so long. it's expensive to launch another one. so I definitely see where darpa is coming from, I just wish they would take it a step further.

Thats not DARPA's mandate. Their job is to take concepts for hard to reach technology and mature it before passing it along to the services for full fledged programs, urgent mission needs being an exception.

anmol · Post by **anmol** » 17 Jul 2014 04:38

UAE plans first Arab spaceship to Mars in 7 years
foxnews.com | Jul 16th 2014

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 17 Jul 2014 06:54

^^^^ I think Mars in seven years is rather ambitious considering their lack of any low earth orbit programs. gotta walk before ya can run. however if that's the way the way they want it, then that's the way they get it. follow your bliss.

however they can hire the Russians or the Chinese or maybe even India to zip them along. we'll have to wait and see.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 17 Jul 2014 12:01

they will just put a team of chinese/americans/brit and who ever

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Jul 2014 12:29

Russia’s Iskander-E Missile System Ready for Deliveries to Other Countries
http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140710 ... Other.html

MINSK, July 10 (RIA Novosti) – Iskander-E mobile theater ballistic missile systems are ready for export, awaiting a decision by state authorities, the head of the Russian delegation to arms and military exhibition MILEX-2014 Valery Varlamov said Thursday.

"Iskander-E [NATO reporting name: SS-26 Stone] is ready for deliveries to other countries, as well as S-400 Triumf [NATO reporting name: SA-21 Growler], but the state authorities need to approve it first," Varlamov said.

The representative said that Russia "will deliver [the systems] to any country, if there is such a decision of the president and the government."

A few years ago, the Russian Defense Ministry announced that S-400 will be produced only in the interests of Russia. Even partners such as Belarus and Kazakhstan will receive them only after the Russian missile defense system is fully equipped, the ministry said.

No such statements have been made about Iskander in public, but in practice the situation is the same, a source in the Russian military-industrial complex told RIA Novosti.

Iskander is one of the country’s most powerful missile strike systems used in the nation’s ground forces. Iskander missiles are nuclear-capable and can make use of different types of reentry vehicles to engage a wide range of targets, from enemy military units to underground command centers.

Iskander systems were successfully tested in 2007. The Russian Army currently uses its Iskander-M and Iskander-K variants. Iskander-E is an export version, with just one rocket on the ballistic missile launcher instead of two, and a range of up to 174 miles.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 17 Jul 2014 17:49

darpa working on unmanned ASW ship

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/17/darp ... sub-drone/

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 17 Jul 2014 17:51

Singha wrote:darpa working on unmanned ASW ship

http://www.engadget.com/2014/07/17/darp ... sub-drone/

The generic Darpa program description

http://www.darpa.mil/Our_Work/TTO/Progr ... CTUV).aspx

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 21 Jul 2014 18:31

Jammer successfully tested on-board Gray Eagle UAV

The US Army has completed the integration and testing of an electronic warfare (EW) capability on board its General Atomics MQ-1C Gray Eagle unmanned air vehicle.

The Networked Electronic Warfare Remotely Operated (NERO) system, derived from the Communications Electronic Attack Surveillance and Reconnaissance (CEASAR) jammer used on the manned Beechcraft C-12 aircraft, was adapted to be used on the UAV.

The testing took place from 2-19 June at Dugway Proving Ground, in Utah, and follows two years of engineering analysis and integration work.

The Joint Improvised Explosive Device Defeat Organization (JIEDDO) funded the effort. Other partners included the project manager for the army’s UAV programme; the Naval Surface Warfare Center in Indiana; Raytheon and General Atomics.

NERO flew on the Gray Eagle for 32h during the testing and 20h of this was with the jammer active.

“The NERO capability may well be part of the army’s future Integrated Electronic Warfare System, if it meets the army warfighter’s requirements,” Col Jim Ekvall, chief of the army’s Electronic Warfare Division at the Pentagon, says.

“Airborne electronic attack provides an enormous amount of support to troops on the ground, and with the NERO payload on a UAV, mission times are increased and are more cost effective for the army.”

The jammer was able to operate at full power with no impact on the UAV, according to Clay Ogden, an expert on airborne electronic attack programmes for the Army's Electronic Warfare Division.

“This demonstrated the viability of a Gray Eagle-based high-powered jamming capability to support the army’s EW counter-communications and broadcasting EW requirements in the future,” he adds.

“Results of the flight testing will inform development of the army’s organic Multi-Function Electronic Warfare capability, which is an integral part of the integrated EW system of the future.”

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 25 Jul 2014 04:47

Exacto bullet

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 25 Jul 2014 05:08

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 28 Jul 2014 12:40

Some outstanding photos from RIMPAC

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2014/07/2 ... _ref=world

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 28 Jul 2014 13:34

South African company Desert Wolf yesterday unveiled its Skunk riot control drone at the IFSEC security exhibition outside Johannesburg. Armed with four paintball guns, it can fire a variety of ammunition to subdue unruly crowds

http://www.defenceweb.co.za/index.php?o ... e&id=34659

Now this tech is gone(old), have a look at these new one,

Micro diesel engine

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 28 Jul 2014 15:39

Few more links on robotic technology
Robotic fish, good one for spying or monitoring under sea survey(there are small robofish from zuru this one is different)

http://www.therobotstudio.com/portfolio-view/fish/
The only key thing is endurance, if someone builds a battery that could last for a decade or so.

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 28 Jul 2014 15:44

brar_w wrote:Jammer successfully tested on-board Gray Eagle UAV

One of the best things so far, in case of war or attack send drones first jam the electronic systems or detect there presence then just rain the bombs or missiles. Nice strategy

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 29 Jul 2014 04:06

I don't know where else to put this but Sri Lankan mixed martial arts fighter foils robbery in Houston. Awesome. You gotta watch this.

http://abc7news.com/news/mma-fighter-he ... er/224621/

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Jul 2014 04:19

Israeli Iron Dome.

Next step:

U.S. Army's vehicle-mounted High Energy Laser Mobile Demonstrator shoots down UAVs, mortar rounds

The U.S. Army announced that its High Energy Laser Mobile Demonstrator (HEL MD), a truck-mounted electrically powered solid-state laser, has shot down several unmanned aerial vehicles (UAVs) in flight, as well as more than 90 mortar rounds. The tests were held between November 18 and December 10, 2013 at the High Energy Laser Systems Test Facility located at White Sands Missile Range.

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 29 Jul 2014 10:51

NRao sir, what these guys never disclose is range which remains classified, even if we assume say range 100kms (don't know about CEP though), these Directed energy weapons could effectively replace CIWS guns (Close In Weapon system) but there bulkiness is a issue, I remember Airborne LASER which both US and Russia developed (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beriev_A-60, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boeing_YAL-1) with as much free literature available on net, was figuring out these systems could be put in big planes for air force, big ships for navy and also big fields for army. What is interesting is the size is decreasing which can be noticed, what is mystery is range and error probability(Classified!). So far wiki tells me is that it is 1.6kms with a 50kW LASER, because it is cheapest and can be programmed to steer, this system is the best shield!!(But how much time does the beam gets to destroy target, contact time will be in milli seconds(or nano), so within millisecs, within milli sq mts area, the beam has to deliver huge kW of energy).

The LaWS will be installed on the USS Ponce in summer 2014 for a 12-month trial deployment. The Navy spent about $40 million over the past six years on research, development, and testing of the laser weapon. It will be directed to targets by the Phalanx CIWS radar. If tests go well, the Navy could deploy a laser weapon operationally between 2017 and 2021 with an effective range of 1 mi (1.6 km; 0.87 nmi). The exact level of power the LaWS will use is unknown but estimated between 15-50 kW for engaging small aircraft and high-speed boats. Directed-energy weapons are being pursued for economic reasons, as they can be fired for as little as one dollar per shot, while conventional gun rounds and missiles can cost thousands of dollars each.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_Weapon_System
The main reason what brings down this weapons is Atmosphere and Moisture or humidity(India has high humidity), on the path of light or beam air molecules collide and absorb the energy(for this same reason energy of the LASER at origin should be as high as possible), then question arises whether they work in Space, yes they will, example is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polyus_(spacecraft) though a failed launch and sadly there is treaty blocking use of space for military.
So as long as they cannot put a 500kW LASER in truck system which we can call as LASER dome or BEAM dome there should be no competition for missile based systems like Iron dome.

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 29 Jul 2014 11:14

I might be wrong regarding range, after watching this

They broke the beam into 6 separate beams, which can be focused on a target much like what we do with magnifying glasses. That nullifies some issues like you can bring 6 50kW laser and deliver at least 100kW ( 6*50 gives us 300kW but some energy is lost while travel) to target at few miles distance, but I wanted to know with how much speed the target was flying what was it made of.

NRao sir sorry for the post, if these guys put some 100's of such trucks, they can play with it nothing can reach them.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 29 Jul 2014 19:36

^^^^^DoD videos are absolute camp, man. Did you see all the initials and numbers of the working groups? Mind boggling. Intentionally I'm sure. And did you see the polite "golf course" type applause at the end?

You would never guess they had implemented science fact from science fiction and a new way of destroying things.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 29 Jul 2014 20:06

They broke the beam into 6 separate beams, which can be focused on a target much like what we do with magnifying glasses. That nullifies some issues like you can bring 6 50kW laser and deliver at least 100kW ( 6*50 gives us 300kW but some energy is lost while travel) to target at few miles distance, but I wanted to know with how much speed the target was flying what was it made of

The goal with these early systems is to develop a system that can deal with the low cost threats out there such as swarm UAV's, swarm boats and low cost munitions. The moment you talk about expensive missiles and aircraft with higher damaging capability, the conventional missiles come into the picture. The O&S head of the US Navy was clear when he said that the plan is to tackle the 50-100K threat that can run havoc by saturating the ships armed defenses. As these systems advance from their current state, the threat index they can deal will will also increase. The deployment has already happened and the R&D stream is quite robust. Expect the expansion of capability to be much faster then what has been seen so far, both with the DEW and the EMRG.

This is something that is tactical and planned to spot 100KW capability.

http://defense-update.com/20131214_us-a ... 9e5dVZbTwI

This is the Joint US and Israeli developed MTHEL demonstrator that was shooting down rockets some 14 years ago..

Size requirements are paramount for an expeditionary army looking at a tactical system. The IDF may wish to have something different and that is less mobile or even fixed.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Jul 2014 20:15

Range of laser?

July, 2010 :: Anti-aircraft laser successfully shoots down UAVs

Although Raytheon would not give details of the height, speed and range of the UAVs, saying that data is "sensitive", the company did say that the Navy wanted tests to be as realistic as possible, suggesting that the aircraft were behaving in the way military planners would expect them to.

However, the "range" of a 120 mm mortar is around 8 KMs / 5 miles. Give (and take) some. So the laser, to be effective, should have a range of at least half that distance?

And, this from the previous article:

The HEL MD is mounted on a standard Army battlefield truck called the Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck. The 10 kW laser currently in the HEL MD will be boosted to 50 kW for future tests, with an eventual upgrade to 100 kW, to increase the effective range of the laser and/or decrease the required laser dwell time on the target.

...................................................................

Mortars travel at low velocities for short ranges in high-arcing trajectories; most UAVs, of course, travel at even lower velocities. Because everything in a laser shoot-down (other than the electronic processing) happens at light speed, there is no need to lead the UAV or mortar when aiming.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 29 Jul 2014 20:22

NRao wrote:[/youtube]

The LS3 always makes me laugh

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 30 Jul 2014 10:54

With Talk of all the laser weapons.. What happened to our own Kali 2000?

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 30 Jul 2014 10:57

NRao wrote:Range of laser?

July, 2010 :: Anti-aircraft laser successfully shoots down UAVs

Although Raytheon would not give details of the height, speed and range of the UAVs, saying that data is "sensitive", the company did say that the Navy wanted tests to be as realistic as possible, suggesting that the aircraft were behaving in the way military planners would expect them to.
However, the "range" of a 120 mm mortar is around 8 KMs / 5 miles. Give (and take) some. So the laser, to be effective, should have a range of at least half that distance?

And, this from the previous article:

The HEL MD is mounted on a standard Army battlefield truck called the Heavy Expanded Mobility Tactical Truck. The 10 kW laser currently in the HEL MD will be boosted to 50 kW for future tests, with an eventual upgrade to 100 kW, to increase the effective range of the laser and/or decrease the required laser dwell time on the target. I would not want to get accidently dazzled by a supporting destroyer.

...................................................................

Mortars travel at low velocities for short ranges in high-arcing trajectories; most UAVs, of course, travel at even lower velocities. Because everything in a laser shoot-down (other than the electronic processing) happens at light speed, there is no need to lead the UAV or mortar when aiming.

the type of target acquisition radar gives you a clue about the effective range of the laser. the more powerful the laser the less time it takes to complete the burn and then acquire another target. we're probably talking about a few seconds burn then on to another target. swat the fly, man.

can you see an a/c carrier group defending itself from an attack? especially at night, what a light show that would be. a light show that would scare you to death from failed consequences. I would not want to get accidently dazzled by a supporting destroyer.

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 30 Jul 2014 12:43

TSJones wrote:^^^^^DoD videos are absolute camp, man. Did you see all the initials and numbers of the working groups? Mind boggling. Intentionally I'm sure. And did you see the polite "golf course" type applause at the end? You would never guess they had implemented science fact from science fiction and a new way of destroying things.

True true...Star wars weapon,,,yeah

, could not understand at first but eventually after going through few links and literature (including few brar_w posts), I can tell you that, it is going to be a marvelous weapon (or already is)!

For surface warfare and to some extent airborne as well, the LASER based weapons serves as the most effective shield or blockade, and when 100kW LASER trucks come, some 1000s (may be even less like just three of them) of them can be aligned or grouped or integrated to act collectively, more less I can imagine what kind of protection it is going to give against UAV's, boats and most of unguided low cost munitions both in sea and land.
I was taken aback by these MTHEL THEL video , wow

What happened to HAARP? is it aborted or still ongoing research?

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 30 Jul 2014 13:43

it must have gone underground after bad press.

krishnan · Post by **krishnan** » 30 Jul 2014 13:57

or probably being tested in real time

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 30 Jul 2014 14:52

rkhanna wrote:With Talk of all the laser weapons.. What happened to our own Kali 2000?

KALI 2000, the electron beam?/X ray based system, so far reports till 2004(? open sourcehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KALI_(laser)) only don't know what happened after that, what I came to know, we do have LASER based anti-missile system under development called Directed Energy Weapon by DRDO (?), which generates 25kW pulses with said range to 7-10kms(?), sadly it is one time user and has a weight of 10t , requires some 12k litres of oil for cooling, but scenario might have been changed now,(I think there was a report of room temp based LASER system) discussed in more detail here
1. http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... 0&start=40
2. http://missilethreat.com/know-more-abou ... kali-5000/

The US military airborne LASERs that shoot down ICBMs can be effective because of thin layer of atmosphere at certain altitudes so some books are telling the range to be 400kms(?).

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 30 Jul 2014 19:24

Singha wrote:it must have gone underground after bad press.

The project is going to get smashed this year!
http://rt.com/news/161672-haarp-closure ... periments/

Between I got a nice link with details of possible range of future LASER weapons.

there is table

http://www.popsci.com/article/technolog ... le-weapons

govardhanks · Post by **govardhanks** » 30 Jul 2014 19:52

The next successor to GPS is on its way from Britain,
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1829 ... sor-to-gps

A quantum compass takes advantage of the 1997 Nobel-winning discovery that lasers can be used to cool atoms to within fractions of a degree of absolute zero. Atoms in this frozen state are extremely sensitive to the magnetic and gravitational field of the Earth. Thus, they can be used to track movement with amazing accuracy. To be clear, this is still a type of inertial “dead reckoning” navigation. The difference is that after getting a solid GPS lock, a sub could go underwater and be exactly on target when it surfaces days or even weeks later.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 30 Jul 2014 20:38

govardhanks wrote:The next successor to GPS is on its way from Britain,
http://www.extremetech.com/extreme/1829 ... sor-to-gps
A quantum compass takes advantage of the 1997 Nobel-winning discovery that lasers can be used to cool atoms to within fractions of a degree of absolute zero. Atoms in this frozen state are extremely sensitive to the magnetic and gravitational field of the Earth. Thus, they can be used to track movement with amazing accuracy. To be clear, this is still a type of inertial “dead reckoning” navigation. The difference is that after getting a solid GPS lock, a sub could go underwater and be exactly on target when it surfaces days or even weeks later.

The ONR, DARPA and the USAF has already spent upwards of a Billion dollars to remove itself from the vulnerabilities of the GPS and satellite constelation under space and cyber attack. Most of these PNT (Position, Navigation and Timing) programs are classified but Aarti Prabhakar has talked about some of these vaguely even when hard pressed by Tejinder Singh

. The MTO program can be found here - but its not the only one dealing with such an issue.

http://www.darpa.mil/Our_Work/MTO/Focus ... iming.aspx

A few years old but a very good read - http://www.insidegnss.com/node/2347

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 31 Jul 2014 01:11

The inevitable:

{US} Air Force Calls for Cheaper, Quicker Weapons Development

In an acknowledgment that the military may be pricing itself out of business, the Air Force on Wednesday called for a shift away from big-ticket weapon systems that take decades to develop and a move toward what Defense Department officials are calling more “agile” high-tech armaments that can be quickly adapted to meet a range of emerging threats.

A 20-year Air Force strategic forecast, spurred in part by looming budget constraints, also calls for a faster pace, with lower price tags, in developing both airmen and the technology they use, warning that the current way of acquiring warplanes and weapons is too plodding.

And, before the turkey thread creeps in here:

Nowhere in the report is there a mention of scaling back on the trouble-plagued F-35 jet fighter — in development for 14 years so far — which was temporarily grounded last month after another in a series of problems.

Nor is there talk of getting rid of the next-generation long-range strike bomber, which the Air Force is working on for around $550 million per plane and which is expected to debut somewhere around the mid-2020s.

“They’re still going to buy the Joint Strike Fighter,” said Todd Harrison, a senior fellow at the Center for Strategic and Budgetary Assessments, referring to the F-35 warplane. “They’re getting squeezed, but they’re still going to buy the next-generation bomber and the KC-46 tanker” for aerial refueling.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 31 Jul 2014 01:41

^^^^^It is nice to call for faster, cheaper, more "agile" but what are the realities? The reality is that weapons are going to get more powerful and complex. That means NOT cheaper and faster in development. What these guys really want are new manufacturing techniques and abilities from drawing board to final product. That will require a new break through in AI and robotic manufacturing and we are not there yet. Someday, maybe, but right now expensive humans and their political complexities still rule.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 31 Jul 2014 02:43

It is nice to call for faster, cheaper, more "agile" but what are the realities? The reality is that weapons are going to get more powerful and complex. That means NOT cheaper and faster in development.

Cheaper depends upon the capability. Want an SDB like system, its going to be cheaper then your other western competitors. Want a hypersonic Mach 5-6 missile with a 500-1000nm range, its going to be expensive. Faster will surely occur. Weapons integration and development is revolutionized by the UAI (Universal armament interface) and what used to take months to years is being done now in weeks..Once the F-35 gets block 4 the program will be fully UAI compliant (they left UAI out of the earlier block requirements, because UAI as a program was very young to risk the F-35 on) meaning that every weapon designed under the UAI initiative globally would be plug and play with UAI enabled fighters, bombers (B-52) or UCAV's. UAI is just not restricted to US weapons. Both the Norwegian JSM and the Turkish SOM will be UAI compatible (JSM block 2, SOM-F35 from the start). No need to spend 4-5 years integrating the AMRAAM replacement onto each and every USAF, or USN fighter..Integration for future weapons would involve separation tests, ejections and thats it. Around the middle of next decade UAI would be expanded to PODS and external sensors as well (IR and EW) so those would be plug and play across all UAI enabled platforms.

Nowhere in the report is there a mention of scaling back on the trouble-plagued F-35 jet fighter — in development for 14 years so far — which was temporarily grounded last month after another in a series of problems

Context Context

F-35B First flight 2008 (June), IOC - 2015 (7 years)
F-35A First flight 2006 (december), IOC - 2016 ( 10 years)
F-35C First flight 2010 (June) , IOC - 2018/19 ( 8 years)

Eurofighter typhoon First flight 1994 (Feb), IOC - 2003 ( 9 years)
Dassault Rafale - First flight (B) 1990/1, IOC 2001 (10 years)

There were no contract downselect with these birds as there was no alternate design house.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 31 Jul 2014 18:44

http://asia.nikkei.com/Politics-Economy ... -new-rules

the usual breathtaking hypocrisy of the haves vs the have-nots. Qatar which is the chosen american cats paw in the middle east is OK to receive japanese weapons technology but if we asked the same, many free lectures would be given.

in any case, what is the use of weapons technology being paid for with real money if it cannot be used ?