Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

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Philip
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Philip »

Universally condemned as India's worst ever Def. Min.,Scamthony,in vengeful mood has dealt a parting kick to the services and the nation by "red flagging" critical defence acquisitions in an attempt to sabotage a new govt, from making quick timely decisions in averting the multiple crises affecting the armed forces.

Another report highlights the huge spares problems afflicting the IN's warships,suffering from babudom and a "Deaf Min."

Scamthony's anti-national acts-of omission and commission (pun intended), should be taken up for investigation by the next govt. as his actions can be construed as tantamount to treason.

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 151621.ece

Antony's Red Flag on Deals to Slow Bullish Successors

By N C Bipindra | ENS - NEW DELHI
Published: 06th April 2014
India’s 13.1-lakh strong armed forces may be waiting for the new government in May to sign key defence deals, but the Defence Ministry under the present UPA regime seems to be working to make that difficult.

At least three of the five major deals – cumulatively worth over Rs 1.2 lakh crore – that are almost ready and waiting to be signed have been pushed into controversies. The Defence Ministry, under A K Antony, has raised red flags and ordered inquiries into these deals, which could raise a political stink whenever these are signed.

The latest to come under the scanner is the Indian Air Force’s bid to buy six European Airbus-330 MRTT midair refuelers, said to be worth Rs 7,500 crore. The deal was ready to be signed after India had selected the Airbus platform against the Russian Ilyushin-78s tankers in the early part of 2013.

But now, after a Member of Parliament wrote to the Defence Minister complaining that the Airbus is facing a Central Bureau of Investigation probe in a nearly three-decade-old case in a civil aviation deal, Antony has ordered the procurement file for the Airbus-330 MRTT to be sent to the Law Ministry for an opinion, say officials.

This is the second time the midair refueler tender is facing rough weather.

In the case of the pro spective Rs 1-lakh-crore tender for 126 Medium Multi Role Combat Aircraft (MMRCA) too, the deal has come under a cloud after Antony said in February this year that “questions have been raised over the offsets proposals” from French firm Dassault Aviation, the winner of the deal.

The MMRCA deal was almost ready, but could not be signed by the UPA II Government in the 2013-14 fiscal due to a crunch for funds. Now, this combat planes deal would be signed by the next government soon after it takes over in May. But with Antony raising questions over the offsets proposal from Dassault Aviation, the signing of the deal, whenever it happens, would definitely face questions from whichever party is in opposition at the time.

Offsets in defence deals worth over Rs 300 crore would mandate the plough back of at least 30 per cent of the contract amount in the Indian defence, aerospace and internal security industry by the winner of the deal. The offset clause in military deals is an instrument used by governments worldwide to energise their domestic defence industry.

In the case of MMRCA, a 50 per cent offset has been fixed for the tender winner Dassault Aviation. But the proposals made by the company for offset implementation had “discrepancies” that are now being looked into, Defence Ministry sources said.

The third deal to come under a probe in the last few months is the `8,000-crore tender for 197 Light Utility Helicopters (LUH) in which the European Airbus Helicopters’ AS550C3 Fennec is the lowest bidder against Russia’s Kamov KA-226T
http://m.newindianexpress.com/nation/289860
Major Warships Crippled by Lack of Spares for Upgrades
Posted on April 6, 2014
N C Bipindra

India’s major warships are facing a shortage of spare parts for their normal, medium and short refit programmes that might explain the regular accidents, including equipment failures that have happened in recent times.

India’s major warships are facing a shortage of spare parts for their normal, medium and short refit programmes that might explain the regular accidents, including equipment failures that have happened in recent times.

For all warships, particularly those of Russian origin, only 50 per cent spares are available with the Mumbai and Visakhapatnam naval dockyards for their refits. These are much below the demand for spares and have resulted in delays in the refit programmes or in low satisfaction levels after the refits. These refits are usually midlife upgrades of the warships, required to make these modern fighting machines last longer than their envisaged service life that could extend from 20 to 30 years.

In the 37 warships recently audited by the Comptroller and Auditor General (CAG) for refit performance, it was found that lack of spare parts hit the midlife upgrades, including those of key surface combatants.

Among the warships hit include the Delhi class and Rajput class mainline Destroyers; amphibious warships such as the recently inducted INS Jalashwa bought from the US in 2007, apart from Gharial and Magar; and the Talwar class frigates built at a Russian shipyard.

Among those audited included those involved in recent accidents/incidents reported since August 2013, including INS Talwar, INS Vipul and INS Konkan.

A minor fire was reported on board INS Konkan, a minesweeper, when it was under a refit programme at the Visakhapatnam naval dockyard in early December 2013. INS Vipul, a corvette/missile vessel, reported a gaping hole found in the pillar compartment in late 2013.

Though the CAG audit has not directly linked the incidents involving the three warships in the last seven months to the lack of spares, the report submitted by the government auditor to the Parliament in February points towards the lack of best practices for maintenance of key strategic assets of the Navy and the Defence Ministry establishments in charge of procurements.
kit
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by kit »

http://defenceradar.com/2014/03/20/hold ... tel-china/

The iFeng report alleges that Boeing, the US manufacturer of the plane, and Rolls-Royce, its engine maker, had indeed received flight-time diagnostic data from the missing B777-200 for up to four hours after it disappeared as claimed by media reports last week, but were prevented by US authorities from divulging the information as it contained military secrets it wants to keep from China.

To avoid being sanctioned by US authorities, Rolls-Royce and Boeing had no choice but to publicly deny holding the information, though at the same time they intentionally leaked their technological capabilities to media outlets to avoid damaging their prospects in the Chinese market, iFeng said.


What does this mean for a country that is more and more western oriented in its military procurement with capital assets like the P8I
arun
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by arun »

X Posted from the "indian Coast Guard Discussion" thread.

ICGS Achook and ICGS Agrim, the fifth and sixth vessels of a series of twenty fast patrol vessels built by Cochin Shipyard Ltd. have been commissioned into the Coast Guard:

Two Indian Coastguard Ships Commissioned by Arun Jaitley
VinodTK
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by VinodTK »

Defence purchases above Rs 10 lakh to be on e-platform
The ministry issued an order on June 6 that all purchases above Rs 10 lakh now be sourced only through this platform.

Buffeted by allegations of huge corruption in procurement for the armed forces, the Defence Ministry has decided to move towards an “end to end” e-procurement platform for all its needs.

The ministry issued an order on June 6 that all purchases above Rs 10 lakh now be sourced only through this platform. The limit will be made even tighter at Rs 5 lakh from April 1, 2015.

The order notes that “necessary instructions in this regard may kindly be issued for strict compliance of e-procurement by all organisations\offices under the Ministry of Defence”.

Explaining the rationale for the order, accessed by The Indian Express, Savitur Prasad, Principal Integrated Financial Adviser in the ministry, said that, till now, departments were required to only put up their tender notices on the portal. “But from now, tendering for any item required by the ministry will have to be processed online, right from placing of the orders to issuing of compliance certificates.”

The Defence Ministry is one of the largest government agencies for procurement. Including its revenue and capital expenditure, the budget for fiancial year 2015 as per the interim budget documents is Rs 2,24,000 crore. E-procurement will help to domestic manufacturing sector to take advantage of this huge stream of business.
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shiv
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by shiv »

Just found this - regarding India's arms acquisition sloth
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/may ... ers-07391/
These moves are especially notable because India has had serious problems with a number of important military programs, which remain in limbo to this day because of poor (and often late) framing of unusual requirements with no reference to the marketplace, followed by rigid insistence that vendors provide off-the-shelf, unmodified solutions. Current high-profile casualties of that approach include external link India’s LUH/RSH light helicopter program, a body armor program for soldiers, the lightweight assault rifle program, 2 armored personnel carrier programs that included an urgent deployment need, upgrades to India’s BMP-2 APCs, new anti-tank missiles, the QR-SAM and MR-SAM air defense programs, and 155mm towed and self-propelled howitzers.
member_23694
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by member_23694 »

An article on path forward for defense

http://aviationweek.com/defense/opinion ... innovation
Darpa Shows One Way, House Panel Another
Could be of some relevance for India in terms of long term focus on R&D on innovative tech
vic
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by vic »

shiv wrote:Just found this - regarding India's arms acquisition sloth
http://www.defenseindustrydaily.com/may ... ers-07391/
These moves are especially notable because India has had serious problems with a number of important military programs, which remain in limbo to this day because of poor (and often late) framing of unusual requirements with no reference to the marketplace, followed by rigid insistence that vendors provide off-the-shelf, unmodified solutions. Current high-profile casualties of that approach include external link India’s LUH/RSH light helicopter program, a body armor program for soldiers, the lightweight assault rifle program, 2 armored personnel carrier programs that included an urgent deployment need, upgrades to India’s BMP-2 APCs, new anti-tank missiles, the QR-SAM and MR-SAM air defense programs, and 155mm towed and self-propelled howitzers.
It is called Tender Tailoring so that only one (pre-selected) vendor emerges victorious as seen in Agusta Westland and Pilatus.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by putnanja »

Ministry to Hang Up On Anonymous Complaints that Delay Defence Deals
NEW DELHI: It has taken only a fortnight for the Narendra Modi government to pinpoint a major bottleneck in timely completion of defence projects. Minister of State for Defence Rao Inderjit Singh made it clear that the new government’s focus will be on removing the existing bottlenecks and to tackle issues facing the defence deals that are stuck due to “investigation” into each and every complaint that lands in the Defence Ministry.

To remove hurdles in ensuring smooth supply of urgently required military equipment to the country’s 13.1-lakh armed forces, the Defence Ministry henceforth, will not cancel or stop the procurement process based on “frivolous” complaints. It will proceed with the process till a court of law found substance in them and pronounced a sentence.
...
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“One particular issue we would like to address is the deals getting delayed or cancelled or sent to investigation over anonymous and frivolous complaints, as was witnessed during the previous UPA regime,” he said to a specific query.

In nearly all defence deals, anonymous and frivolous complaints come on behalf of arms firms that have lost a tender or a contract. Such complaints usually raise questions on the procurement procedure followed or the winner‘s product not meeting the set standards. “Many a times, the complaints are from the defence firms that have lost a tender or a contract. They complain against procedures followed in the selection or try to mar the selection process itself in favour of their rival company. These complaints and anonymous letters delay the acquisition process,” Rao Inderjit Singh noted.
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The Defence Ministry has not decided to not to initiate action such as cancellation of deals or suspension of contracts while investigation is in progress, but to proceed with the procurement process. “Punitive action against offenders in such complaints would be taken against defence companies and individuals involved only after charges are proved in a court of law,” Rao Inderjit Singh said.

Earlier, action was being taken only on the basis of complaints. That scuttled acquisition plans, each and every time.

In fact, Antony had also admitted to such complaints landing on his desk on a number of occasions. But his response had always been: “We will never brush any complaint under the carpet. We will not dump any complaint into the dustbin. We will inquire into them.”

This stand of Antony had led to a large number of complaints reaching him. Most of the complaints were sent to the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) for a probe.
...
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VinodTK
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by VinodTK »

Tatas, Ruag Aviation to set up aircraft manufacturing unit in Hyderabad
HYDERABAD: The Tata group and Swiss aerospace and defence firm Ruag Aviation are setting up an aircraft manufacturing facility in Hyderabad, marking the first major investment in Telangana after the state was carved out of Andhra Pradesh.

For Tata Group, which already has a presence in aerospace and defence at Adibatla on the outskirts of Hyderabad, this will be the fourth venture in the sector. The factory will start by making cabins and wings in the first phase. Group entity Tata Advanced Systems now makes helicopter cabins for the US-based Sikorsky Aircraft.

It has two more facilities in joint venture with Lockheed Martin and Sikorsky and one on its own. In November 2010, the Tata group said it plans to make Hyderaba hub of its aerospace and defence investments.

Telangana chief minister K Chandrasekhar Rao on Monday laid the foundation stone for the project of Tata-Ruag joint venture, which in three years will also be manufacturing the 19-seater Dornier 228 aircraft.


For Tata Group, which already has a presence in aerospace and defence at Adibatla on the outskirts of Hyderabad, this will be the fourth venture in the sector. The factory will start by making cabins and wings in the first phase.
shiv
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by shiv »

A bit of history here - cross posted so we all learn how the world works
ramana wrote:War secrets and spies herald Mig 21 arrival in India

Inder Malhotra
War,secrets and spies heralded the now-retiring MiG-21’s arrival in India.

Every word that the retiring air chief,N.A.K. Browne,and others said in praise of the MiG-21 — the workhorse of the Indian air force for half a century,which is also being retired after yeoman service — is eminently well-deserved. The Soviet combat aircraft that Moscow gave us willingly played a stellar role in the 1965 and 1971 wars. However,it is surprising that no one has taken the trouble to recall the rather exciting history of the acquisition of this excellent aircraft. So here goes the instructive tale.

At the start of 1960s,the Cold War was its height. A four-power East-West summit in Paris had just fallen flat because of the flight over the Soviet Union by America’s U-2 super-spy plane,which was shot down. Both the United States and Britain,therefore,strained every nerve to dissuade India from going in for the MiG-21 or any other Soviet weaponry. American effrontery was unbelievable. Having supplied Pakistan with Sabre fighters already,the US had also started gifting it the more sophisticated F-104s,also called Starfighters. In no mood to offer India any lethal military equipment (even though it had given us three squadrons of C-119 transport aircraft in 1954-55),Washington “urged” New Delhi to buy British Lightning aircraft,wrongly claiming that it was better than anything the Soviet Union could offer. Britain was,of course,very keen to sell Lightning fighters to India,but wanted payment in cash. This country had no foreign exchange and was,in fact,busy pruning the Second Five-Year Plan to slash expenditures in foreign currency.

John Kenneth Galbraith,then the US ambassador to India,recorded later that he and some others had then advised President John F. Kennedy to pay the British for the aircraft and recover the amount from India in relatively small instalments. JFK’s reply was: “Why should we be so foolish as to pay millions of dollars to save the Indians from their folly?” There was no such problem vis-à-vis the MiGs. The Indo-Soviet trade was in rupees and was basically barter. So we paid for fighter aircraft in shoe-uppers,bananas and tea.

On a bright and balmy day in August 1961,the Soviet capital became the venue of two extremely significant events. One was the arrival of Fidel Castro,obviously to discuss in utmost secrecy the installation of Soviet nuclear missiles in Cuba. The reception he was given was so huge and so tumultuous as to be breathtaking. It almost completely eclipsed the second event: the agreement between India and the USSR,not only on the supply of MiG-21s,but also on their production under licence in India. ]Incidentally,it must be underscored that the Cuban missile crisis erupted during the brief and brutal India-China border war of October 1962,which was a debacle for India. There is considerable evidence to show that,because of their superior intelligence in Havana,the Chinese had a reasonable idea of when the two superpowers were likely to be engrossed in the missile crisis,and they timed their invasion and unilateral ceasefire accordingly.

As every student of the 1962 war knows,for a brief period,until the resolution of the Cuban confrontation,the Soviet Union chose not to annoy China. It spoke of “our Chinese brothers and Indian friends”. A Pravda editorial even advocated that India accept a ceasefire on Chinese terms. It was during this short period that work on sending MiG-21s to India was also slowed down. However,Moscow reverted to its pro-India policy as soon as the Cuban missile crisis was over.

After the 1962 war,the US offered India the F-4,a two-seater fighter aircraft of high quality,but later reneged on its promise. In the meantime,we had trained a large number of pilots and navigators for the F-4,which created a major problem. As for the F-104 Starfighter,which later earned the moniker widow-maker” because it crashed all too frequently,the story is even worse. After a joint exercise with the US air force at Palam,the IAF declared the Starfighter to be a superior aircraft and was eager to acquire it. The Americans refused to give it,which was a stroke of good luck for India.

For long before the dawn of the global age,it was discovered that the big sales of Starfighters were a global racket. A powerful prime minister of Japan and a prince in Western Europe were among a large number of middlemen who went to jail for accepting heavy bribes.
The flames of accusation reached even West Germany’s famous defence minister,J. Strauss,but did not singe him. However,he was heard reciting: “The fault is not in our stars but our Starfighters”.

The writer is a Delhi-based political commentator

express@expressindia.com
Nikhil T
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Nikhil T »

The breakdown of the 2014-15 Capital Budget of the defence forces.

The Air Force's capital outlay for acquiring Aircraft and Aero engines has been slashed by over 40% from Rs 28,500 crore to Rs 16,000 crore! :shock:
No chance of signing the MRCA contract with this kind of an allocation. Ajai Shukla previously mentioned that GoI will need to give about Rs 10,000 crore as first installment along with the signatures.
abhik
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by abhik »

Only a 5000 Cr increase in Defence budget from the interim Budget.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Picklu »

Nikhil T wrote:The breakdown of the 2014-15 Capital Budget of the defence forces.

The Air Force's capital outlay for acquiring Aircraft and Aero engines has been slashed by over 40% from Rs 28,500 crore to Rs 16,000 crore! :shock:
No chance of signing the MRCA contract with this kind of an allocation. Ajai Shukla previously mentioned that GoI will need to give about Rs 10,000 crore as first installment along with the signatures.
Not just Rafale but I think Apache too. 12.5k cut can not be explained otherwise.

Bitter pill indeed and an eminently justifiable one, IMVHO. I think it was a real thought out shrewd plan by NaMoji to put the same person as FinMin as well Mod to handle capital expenditure by the forces without loosing bigger perspective.

None other had any cut, rather increase. Ok, Navy had cut in aircraft and aero engine but I believe there was no new big ticket item anyway, all existing deal servicing.

The message, if gets repeated, will be clear. Get on with necessary and essential TINA, anything fancy imported won't be encouraged. Long overdue, again IMVHO.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by NRao »

If NaMo is wise enough to make the same man the head of both Fin and Def, then is he wiser to kill what can kill in the Rafale, etc, by claiming no money and then when alternative is proven increase the funding? No one is going to question him if he says no-money.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Nikhil T »

Picklu wrote: (snipped)
The message, if gets repeated, will be clear. Get on with necessary and essential TINA, anything fancy imported won't be encouraged. Long overdue, again IMVHO.
You might be right because the DRDO's share of the MoD Capital Budget has zoomed by 80+% from Rs 5,200 crore to Rs 9,300 crore! Or it could just be that allocating Rs 94,000 crore on Capital Outlay (from 78k crore in revised estimates) will get the Govt all the right headlines, but really a big part of the increase is in DRDO's capital budget which won't be able to spend it anyway.
As big a supporter I am of the new Govt, I fear it might be the latter.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Karan M »

DRDO has been asking for more funds for a long time. Looks like it finally got it.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by deejay »

The direction to be taken by the NaMo govt. on matters of defence is apparent now. It was definitely not a coincidence that the FM and RM where the same.

Those supporting quick buys of expensive eqpts for shoring up the services (at some places me included) will be dessappointed, this government thinks otherwise.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Karan M »

Well, they will have to lump it. A lot of the older defence services rtd clique suffers from the brochuritis and import crazy syndrome. TBH, I have given up on them and their peers (working assumption being these guys of their generation reflect their age group).

They simply don't understand (or wont) the need to buy Indian, routinely dismiss anything Indian as insufficient with the most shoddy of arguments denying any evidence to the contrary and have regarded the Union Budget as pocket money, basically - Indian economy is "doing well", India is "BRICS" etc so they can buy, import all they want. China has $145 Bn to spend. We should too. No clear answers on how Chinese buy local even if their MK1s are waaay behind the so called state of the art.

They will not be changed, since its a mindset issue. They have spent ALL their life working with, and on, imported items. They neither understand or empathize or wish to work with the system to associate with it. Quick fixes are what they believe in, imports + TOT are their mantra, albeit couched in new age stuff of increasing pvt participation etc (no clear answer about when asked if they will fund pvt sector to develop items for them, over a decade plus for complex items as will be required).

So GOI has to change the policies and stop the import mania. Otherwise its candy shop versus candy shop and frankly, apart from select groups of officers who will quietly admit or consider the reality, the rest of the edifice is too ossified to change.

One has to be thankful the strategic missile program was out of the purview of these "worthies" or they would have killed that as well. Now, they are reluctantly forced to concede it is a success story, even as they stick their heads in the sand and refuse to acknowledge Brahmos, Akash, Pinaka etc. The Navy simply didn't have the funds or the political clout in Delhi to behave as a prima donna, so it quickly adapted & became tech savvy & got its hands dirty. The remaining two won't at an institutional level and only select officers are deputed for programs and then their knowledge/skills are lost as the overall institution remains import obsessed.

Folks like VK Singh who realize the problem and have the guts to introspect and start changing things, themselves fall prey to internecine politics and leave before making a mark. Such is the way of things.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Karan M »

Also, a lot of folks have made tons of money riding off of the import gravy train. The latest bizness is to set up India offices of western OEMs staffed by rtd Military guys (earlier you would have some innocuous firms "helping" in procuring spares for eastern bloc eqpt with rtd admirals, marshals, commodores etc). Most of these heads and new CEOs head organizations with zero contribution to local industry. They basically act as lobbyists for relaxing FDI, offsets rules, do a fair bit of DRDO/local product bashing and routinely decry local folks as "incompetent, mediocre" not IIT material etc. Their opinions are picked up and amplified by the Thapars, Pandits and other DDM who use these folks for information.

Moment any positive news about Indian defence comes out - these guys will crawl out of the woodwork. Like clockwork. Its a combination of both insecurity & commercial interest, plain and simple. Foreign brands/mindset alone is not the issue with a lot of this other group. It also includes a fair bunch of so called "experts" from abroad including some NRI types who land up in India hawking unproven wares, don't get traction and then either join arms merchants as "technocrats" and lobbying away hard.
RKumar

Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by RKumar »

Nikhil T wrote:The breakdown of the 2014-15 Capital Budget of the defence forces.

The Air Force's capital outlay for acquiring Aircraft and Aero engines has been slashed by over 40% from Rs 28,500 crore to Rs 16,000 crore! :shock:
No chance of signing the MRCA contract with this kind of an allocation. Ajai Shukla previously mentioned that GoI will need to give about Rs 10,000 crore as first installment along with the signatures.
What is "Other Equipment" where budget is increased
Army from 7889.47 to 15591.93
Navy from 2514.87 to 4358.10
IAF from 7398.65 to 15352.17

Good to see Research and Development increased from 5257.60 to 9298.25. :D
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by chackojoseph »

Karan M wrote: They will not be changed, since its a mindset issue. They have spent ALL their life working with, and on, imported items.
I am posting a rely from my Facebook. It was in response to Nehru's (JLN) flawed policies. I learn't it after meeting Win Commander PK Karayi. he was deputy military attache in UK during Canberra and Jag purchase. He was in logistics. I am in the process of publishing his book An Indian Ar Force Officer remembers. Below is the post:

JLN had broad framework for home production/imports. It was Krishna Menon who actually ran the entire thing efficiently till he was pulled down by party colleagues. Then the issue of autonomy like DAE , CSIR did not happen. Bureaucrats pulled it the other way. Of all the SA's only Kalam had some autonomy, but too late for DRDO. Reading the manuscript of IAF officer (PK karayi), I could gather RAF too had issues with arms manufacturers. At one side India had PSU's , the other side, Britain had pure gold diggers for production. Those days only 2 models existed and both inefficient. The reason why armed forces clamoured for foreign maal was because RAF etc had established procedures after dealing with arms manufacturers. Indian attaches used to pick up those experiences and use the template and cost. In India MoD killed it all. He gave instances on how they sat on files. The major reason for MoD/ Ministers etc to behave like that was because cash would be deposited at banks in some countries, mercedes benz would be gifted in nepal etc. So, PSU's were deliberately been kept the way they are. There were many stalwarts in DPSU's, DRDO, services etc. Eminent outsiders did not want to join because of that and the efficient insiders were insulted and humiliated. Senior officers seldom spoke because foreign postings, promotions etc were dependent on the MoD babus.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by deejay »

chackojoseph wrote:
Karan M wrote: They will not be changed, since its a mindset issue. They have spent ALL their life working with, and on, imported items.
.... In India MoD killed it all. He gave instances on how they sat on files. The major reason for MoD/ Ministers etc to behave like that was because cash would be deposited at banks in some countries, mercedes benz would be gifted in nepal etc. So, PSU's were deliberately been kept the way they are. There were many stalwarts in DPSU's, DRDO, services etc. Eminent outsiders did not want to join because of that and the efficient insiders were insulted and humiliated. Senior officers seldom spoke because foreign postings, promotions etc were dependent on the MoD babus.
I agree and will repeat ad-nauseum, the services really are not in control of these decisions. They are mere tools in the great game played by the babus in MOD. These babus are so good at their game that even the most well informed, critical eye misses their role in all this. I see it happen on BRF so often. The Services take a lot of flak because in front of these MOD babus and their sly ways, the Service Officer is a mere tool. Gen V. K. Singh was played by these babus and the game goes on. To establish their superiority these babus have and will go any distance. Plus, they are the people who gain the most in all these deals.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by vic »

DRDO has Revenue Budget and Capital budget. Previous year, it was roughly Rs 5000 crore each totaling Rs. 10,000 crore. Now the Capital Budget is practically doubled while Revenue Budget has gone upto Rs 6000 crore totaling around Rs. 15,000 crore which is a pretty good increase. Similar increase of around 50% has been given for Atomic energy and Space programmes also from actual expenses of last year.

Defense Rail Network has been funded with Rs. 1000 crores + Procurement of rolling stock of Rs 275 crores totaling Rs 1,275 crores. Roads and Bridges budget is seeing a massive increase from Rs 5000 crore or so to Rs 15,000 crores.

Naval Dockyard Capital budget has been increased by Rs. 900 crores and OFB Capital Budget has also been increased by Rs. 800 crores.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by chackojoseph »

deejay wrote: the services really are not in control of these decisions.
True, but not service officers. More of individual act than the service act. A lot of things could not be done without signatures of service officers.

At the same time there were babus who wanted to indigenous Mig-21 brakes, but failed to get grip of it. Chandni Chowk was not the correct place to purchase them , reasoned the Officer who wrote the book. But Babus knew rubber breaks of cycles etc.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Karan M »

deejay wrote:I agree and will repeat ad-nauseum, the services really are not in control of these decisions. They are mere tools in the great game played by the babus in MOD. These babus are so good at their game that even the most well informed, critical eye misses their role in all this. I see it happen on BRF so often. The Services take a lot of flak because in front of these MOD babus and their sly ways, the Service Officer is a mere tool. Gen V. K. Singh was played by these babus and the game goes on. To establish their superiority these babus have and will go any distance. Plus, they are the people who gain the most in all these deals.
Deejay Ji, no personal slight intended but what you note is a gross oversimplification. Yes, there are babus who aren't doing their job, but there are many service folk also who have a huge mindset issue with anything local from DRDO etc & will often wear their bias openly & act against local programs and projects. They cannot be reasoned with.

They have been a huge problem in the past & will continue to be so until a more self aware newer generation takes over (and even there many have been indoctrinated already). Many of those babus whom you curse have been funding local industry and R&D while the Bundle Tyagis openly asked for funds to be capped.

The babus havent been attempting to kill the Arjun. It wasn't the babus who were responsible for the IAF to sit out of the LCA for two odd decades till 2007. There is a huge "imports are the way" lobby in the service brass who play the game savvily.

Of course the ruling Govts of the day till recently made it a policy to import, import (for obvious reasons) and they have literally addicted the services to imports. You will have service officers openly talk of how "HAL sabotaged the HF-24", "babus have no brains", ignore the IAFs role and at the same time mock the money spent on the LCA, call local efforts a waste and then in the same brain, pitch for the Rafale and other $Billion imports.

Same way INSAS is a waste because its a local (DRDO design) made by the useless OFB. But somehow, they won't even think of what will happen when the same OFB makes a foreign design. Mind you, they will also crib about how some systems suffered from bad support despite being imported at cost.

Cognitive dissonance reigns supreme.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by A Sharma »

India, Israel Discuss Increased Defense Cooperation

India and Israel may reach a new level of defense cooperation under the new government in Delhi, with both sides discussing a list of defense items that could be supplied to India on a government-to-government basis.

Indian Defense Secretary Radha Krishna Mathur discussed the wish list with his Israeli defense counterparts during his July 1-3 visit to Tel Aviv, said an Indian Ministry of Defense official.

“The move to strike government-to-government tie ups with Israel, as was done with the United States, is aimed at fast pacing the procurement of weaponry and avoiding the open competition route, which has been time consuming and laced with controversies” said Nitin Mehta, a defense analyst here.

The weapons wish list includes unspecified numbers of Sword Fish high-powered radars for ground tracking, and purchase of unspecified numbers of 1,000-kilogram new generation precision guided munitions, and a variety of missiles.

India also wants to purchase two additional airborne warning and control systems from Israel, in addition to the four already contracted in 2005.

India, however, urged Israel to speed up the delayed Indo-Israeli Long Range Surface to Air Missile project for its recently acquired Russian aircraft carrier, INS Vikramaditya. The $600 million project, launched in 2005 to arm Indian warships, is still in the trial stages whereas it was scheduled for induction by mid-2012. The delay has left the carrier without any anti-missile systems.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by A Sharma »

Bahrain Seeks HAL Support

Bahrain’s Minister for transport Mr. Kamal bin Ahmed Mohamed who also looks after his country’s defence matters, visited HAL Chalet at the on-going Farnborough International Air Show (July 14 to 20) and evinced keen interest in HAL’s activities. At a meeting with HAL Chairman Dr. R.K. Tyagi and Company Directors, he sought HAL’s technical support in maintaining the Hawk fleet of Bahrain Air Force. He also urged HAL to increase its participation level at the biennial Bahrain Air Show. “Without HAL, our shows are incomplete”, he told HAL top executives. He felt that Indian Defence companies have a lot to offer to the Gulf Cooperation Council (GCC) countries and Bahrain could play a key role in all this.

Earlier this year, HAL had sent a small delegation to the Bahrain Air Show to explore the possible areas of cooperation. A team from Bahrain followed it up immediately with their visit to HAL during Defexpo in Delhi.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by member_24684 »


India also wants to purchase two additional airborne warning and
control systems from Israel, in addition to the four already
contracted in 2005.
Confused three or Four

is IAF going for two more systems in same platform in IL 76

Isn't they looking for wide body AEWCS..
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Vipul »

Def Min Clears Acquisition Proposals Worth Rs 21,000 Cr.

Pressing ahead with its policy to promote domestic military industry, the government today cleared procurement proposals worth over Rs 21,000 crore and also okayed a project for the production of transport aircraft which is open only to Indian private sector companies.

Among the major proposals to receive approval is a Rs 9,000 crore tender to provide five fleet support ships for the Navy, for which the Request for Proposal (RFP) would be issued to all public and private sector shipyards, Defence Ministry officials said.

The majority of the proposals cleared would involve only Indian public and private sector firms and are aimed at increasing the indigenisation of military hardware, they added.

Chairing his first meeting of the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), Defence Minister Arun Jaitley said, "There are many proposals in the pipeline for the defence forces and, today, we have tried to expedite quite a few of them."

Thus, a proposal for supply of 32 HAL-built Advanced Light Helicopter, 'Dhruv', to the Coast Guard and the Navy at a cost of Rs 7,000 crore was also okayed, officials said.

Under the proposal, state-owned Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd will supply 16 helicopters each to the Coast Guard and the Navy and also provide maintenance for the machines to ensure the "highest level of operational maintenance and efficiency".

DAC also cleared an IAF proposal for issuance of a tender for construction of 56 transport aircraft by private industry players to replace the force's fleet of Avro aircraft, they said.

"This is going to be a significant project in which the private sector would be the sole player and lead to capacity-building in the private sector," Jaitley said in reference to the tender for replacing the Avro aircraft.

As per the proposal, private Indian defence companies such as Tata and Mahindra would be issued tender and they would build the aircraft in partnership with foreign firms.

The proposal was stuck under the previous UPA government after the then Heavy Industries Minister Praful Patel wrote to the Defence Ministry against the decision to keep out public sector firms from the project.

Defence Ministry had referred the matter to the Law Ministry, which opined in favour of the proposal for capacity- building in the domestic aerospace sector, Ministry officials said, adding that the tender would be issued soon.

Under the project, which was cleared earlier and is expected to cost over Rs 20,000 crore, the first 16 aircraft would be built at the facilities of the foreign vendor while the remaining 40 aircraft would be manufactured in India.

This would be the first time that the private sector would be allowed to manufacture a complete aircraft without participation of the public sector HAL, the only aerospace firm in the country.

The meeting also cleared the procurement of five Fast Patrol Vessels (FPV) and Offshore Patrol Vessels (OPV) each for the Coast Guard at the cost of Rs 2,360 crore.

The FPVs and OPVs would be built by the state-owned GRSE and Goa Shipyards Ltd, respectively, Ministry officials said.

A proposal to procure Search and Rescue (SAR) equipment for the three services at a cost of Rs 900 crore, too, received the green light.

The last meeting of the DAC was held on February 24 under the then Defence Minister AK Antony.

The NDA government under Prime Minister Narendra Modi is stressing on indigenisation of the military industry given that India has to import 70 per cent of its defence hardware.

In its first few days in office, the Modi government has hiked the FDI limit in defence to 49 per cent from the earlier 26 per cent and significantly pruned the list of defence items whose production requires manufacturing licenses.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by K Mehta »

Defence projects worth Rs. 21,000 crore cleared- The Hindu

The government on Saturday cleared defence procurement proposals worth over Rs 21,000 crore and also okayed a project for the production of transport aircraft, which is open only to Indian private sector companies.

Among the major proposals to receive approval is a Rs 9,000 crore tender to provide five fleet support ships for the Navy, for which the request for proposal (RFP) would be issued to all public and private sector shipyards, Defence Ministry officials said.

Chairing his first meeting of the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC), Defence Minister Arun Jaitley said, “There are many proposals in the pipeline for the defence forces and, today, we have tried to expedite quite a few of them.”

Thus, a proposal for supply of 32 HAL-built Advanced Light Helicopter, ‘Dhruv’, to the Coast Guard and the Navy at a cost of Rs 7,000 crore was also okayed, officials said.

Under the proposal, HAL will supply 16 helicopters each to the Coast Guard and the Navy and also provide maintenance for the machines to ensure the “highest level of operational maintenance and efficiency”.

DAC also cleared an IAF proposal for issuance of a tender for construction of 56 transport aircraft by private industry players to replace the force’s fleet of Avro aircraft, they said.

As per the proposal, private Indian defence companies such as Tata and Mahindra would be issued tender and they would build the aircraft in partnership with foreign firms.

The meeting also cleared the procurement of five fast patrol vessels (FPV) and offshore patrol vessels (OPV) each for the Coast Guard at the cost of Rs 2,360 crore.

The FPVs and OPVs would be built by the state-owned GRSE and Goa Shipyards Ltd, respectively, officials said.

A proposal to procure search and rescue (SAR) equipment for the three services at a cost of Rs 900 crore, too, received the green light.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by anirban_aim »

SO good news all around. Phoren maal is not encouraged and desi SDRE stuff is given a leg up.

5 things,

1. no matter how much we may dislike the option but our defence planners, pols and gens alike need to accept the idea that in the long run our policy need to be that we will fight with whatever we can produce here. Thats That. We have to be military hardware exporters and not importers.

2. Now if point 1 seems to be a tall ask for the forces, which it is, then the pols and diplomats have to collectively ensure relative peace, to ensure that push doesn't come to shove till we achieve the capability desired in point 1. Save the moolah. Spend on Infra (may be more on local mil issues like border roads/airfields/railways).

3. The def PSUs and the nascent mil-ind complex leaders need to be held responsible for timely delivery of promised goodies.

4. More pvt and GoI investment in creating a large Mil Ind Complex

5. Gens need to tone down GSQRs to achievable levels domestically. To achieve synergy, create multi agency project management committees which will be responsible for GSQR conception, design of the prototype, validation and then Production. Any failure to meet set parameters of performance, quality issues, timeline over runs are to be treated as collective failures and harsh dis incentives brought in.

Newbie Kursi Gen ka 2 paisa...
abhik
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by abhik »

Vipul wrote:Def Min Clears Acquisition Proposals Worth Rs 21,000 Cr.
Thus, a proposal for supply of 32 HAL-built Advanced Light Helicopter, 'Dhruv', to the Coast Guard and the Navy at a cost of Rs 7,000 crore was also okayed, officials said.
Something seems off here, 7000 crores for just 32 ALH Dhruvs? Thats about 219 crores/ 36 million dollars per helicopter.
suryag
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by suryag »

Can we have a QA body(impartial) under MoD that ensures that the products delivered by the domestic companies are of acceptable quality? Something like a certifying agency like CEMILAC but independent of the QA teams in AFs and PSUs
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Nikhil T »

abhik wrote:
Vipul wrote:Def Min Clears Acquisition Proposals Worth Rs 21,000 Cr.
Thus, a proposal for supply of 32 HAL-built Advanced Light Helicopter, 'Dhruv', to the Coast Guard and the Navy at a cost of Rs 7,000 crore was also okayed, officials said.
Something seems off here, 7000 crores for just 32 ALH Dhruvs? Thats about 219 crores/ 36 million dollars per helicopter.
Not surprised. Dhruv has a high import content (in FY 2008, it was 90% by value). Its only natural that the price has been steadily rising as well.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by NRao »

My feel is that this is "in the right direction".

But, as far as distance to travel? Long, very long way to go. IMHO of course.

Past 10 years would have helped.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Kakkaji »

Comprehensive defence portfolio: Tatas set to grab opportunity that arises from hike in FDI limit
So what's on the Indian defence ministry's shopping list today? Those familiar with the developments indicate that request for proposals (RFPs) are expected for a light strike vehicle and a light supply vehicle in a month and an RFP for a light armoured multipurpose vehicle in another three or four. Tata Motors' LamV fits in the last category. The FICV is expected to be revived in September. Noronha points out that even the home ministry forces like BSF, CRPF and ITBP have started procurement pprocurement procedures after two years.

Also on the list are orders for mounted gun systems. After the INS Kolkata destroyer warship is inducted into the Indian Navy in August orders for two more Kolkata class destroyers and their missile launchers will follow. TASL is also awaiting RFPs for radar systems and aircraft — possibly the medium multi role combat aircraft (MMRCA).

A Technology Question

"The core technology in almost everything in defence today sits outside India. We have to get it either through FDI or other means. There is no way to develop it," says Singh. It also underlines Dubey's impatience with the delay in opening up FDI further; in fact he is all for a streamlined policy without classifications for technology like 'state of the art'.

Ganesh Raj, head of defence business at Ernst & Young, says that the (UPA) government realized in 2010-11 that the offset-mechanism whereby foreign players were asked to get 30% local sourcing would not help create indigenous capacity. "Local defence industry is also spread too thin," he adds. The 'buy and make' programme conceived last year envisages 50% Indian content and makes investing in India for foreign companies much more lucrative. Raj says: "But nothing will happen overnight. Tier I technology will still not come but maybe tier II technology will be available," he says.

Indian industry can still work wonders with tier II technology. Noronha of Tata Motors points out that many African countries with modest defence budgets will not be able to buy European or US technology. "If they cannot afford the best, they will go for the good and India can cater to that market." It will be a slow and steady process and on that path the Tatas have already established early milestones with its JVs and collaborations. Tata Motors has also identified 16 acres of land in Dharwad for manufacture of the FICV.

That is also another reason why the Tatas are entering this business with their flotilla of almost 14 companies. Crucial bits lie inside large listed entities like Tata Motors and Tata Power and they cannot be spun off. The net worth of any spinoff will be so low that they will not be able to qualify for tenders, points out Chaudhry. DRDO prefers to deal with large companies.

Speaking about manufacturing for the defence sector, Noronha says: "This is an industry for fasting and feasting. There is a long gestation only after which you get big orders. Manufacturing FICVs would mean working at a slow rate of four or five units a month." Clearly a decade isn't a long time in defence production.
abhik
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by abhik »

Nikhil T wrote:
abhik wrote:Something seems off here, 7000 crores for just 32 ALH Dhruvs? Thats about 219 crores/ 36 million dollars per helicopter.
Not surprised. Dhruv has a high import content (in FY 2008, it was 90% by value). Its only natural that the price has been steadily rising as well.
It used to cost around 7-8 million USD. Just inflation or upgraded systems do not explain a 5 fold increase in price.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by A Sharma »

Cobham, Tata Advanced Systems announce metallic structures manufacturing agreement for aerial refuelling equipment in India



Wimborne, UK & Hyderabad, India: Cobham and Tata Advanced Systems (TASL) have agreed that TASL will manufacture for Cobham’s world-leading 5th generation air-to-air refuelling equipment at TASL’s facility in Hyderabad, India. During a rigorous sourcing and selection process, TASL was able to evidence world class capabilities and the capacity to support delivery against Cobham’s requirements.

For Cobham, this agreement is further evidence of the strategic importance of India in the company’s strategy to grow its market presence and supply chain. The partnership also reinforces TASL’s continued fast-paced growth towards being a preferred partner to the global Aerospace & Defence industry.

As a leader in the aerostructures industry in India, TASL has successfully undertaken complex global transition programs for Lockheed Martin and Sikorsky Aircraft Corporation and has recently announced a new partnership with RUAG Aviation for the Do 228-212 NG structures.

'This business agreement has been implemented as a key element of our business strategy to establish a world class supply chain footprint in India to support long-term programme delivery obligations, including proposed India air-to-air refuelling requirements. This multi-million pound engagement marks the beginning of a strategic long-term arrangement with TASL,' said David Squires, Chief Operating Officer of Cobham plc.

“The relationship between Tata and Cobham is a testimony of new-generation partnerships with key technology leaders from across the globe are partnering with India and the Tata group for their global customers. In Cobham, we see a commonality of values, which are a foundation for future collaboration. We seek to develop this into a strategic partnership wherein we would be partners in the growth and success of Cobham and its customers.” said Mr S Ramadorai, Chairman, TASL.
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by Karan M »

Looks like TATA SED is still in the race!

Another Tata company, Tata Power and its division Tata Power SED, is awaiting the revival of the FICV tender. Rahul Chaudhry, CEO of Tata Power SED, contends that since his company has experience in building tracked vehicles for missile launchers as well as gun turrets they are better placed to take on the job.

A bit of internal competition may be healthy and Tata Power SED has been in charmed circles of India's defence establishment for a long time too. If pedigree matters, this company is way ahead of the competition both inside and outside Tatas.

Chaudhry recalls how after the peaceful nuclear explosion of 1974, the defence establishment quietly shifted the onus of research to a private sector organization — the strategic engineering division (SED) of the then Tata Electric Company to bypas ..If pedigree matters, this company is way ahead of the competition both inside and outside Tatas.

Chaudhry recalls how after the peaceful nuclear explosion of 1974, the defence establishment quietly shifted the onus of research to a private sector organization — the strategic engineering division (SED) of the then Tata Electric Company to bypass the sanctions. "Today we consider the DRDO our guru," says Chaudhry who also has built a prototype of the 155 mm howitzer gun

This unit of Tata Power has eight lines of business and has worked on the Akash surface-toair missile system and the Pinaka rocket launcher as well as the command and control system of INS Arihant, the nuclear-powered ballistic missile submarine.

Back in 2006-07 Chaudhry was with Tata Power as a communications expert and was asked to take a look at whether the SED should be closed down! Chaudhry turned around the division, which today clocks annual revenues of `300 crore. "It is possible only in Tatas that an unprofitable division is kept going for 30 years because of its strategic importance in India's defence," he say


Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst
abhik
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Re: Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Post by abhik »

The question is what exactly is the private sector bringing to the table. Take the case of the Tata (motors?) concept shown in DefExpo which has foreign armor, foreign turret with a foreign cannon firing ammunition that is not the current IA standard, foreign RWS, foreign ATGM etc. The technology to make these components already exist or can be easily be developed in India. Buying something like this will just end up increasing our dependence on foreign arms not reducing. The smart thing to do would be to let DRDO lead the R&D with a private or public entity chosen as the "Production Agency" and also to do R&D in the areas where they already have some knowhow in or can realistically achieve on their own. The "Production Agency" then manufactures the equipment after ToT(which is basically what the DPSUs do), from where they build expertise so that they can develop future generations on their own.
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