Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

srin · Post by **srin** » 16 May 2015 08:25

indranilroy wrote:As the production of the 228 draws to a close at HAL, Kanpur, I had thought, HAL would fasten its belt and concentrate on getting the Saras (14 and 18 seater) and MTA to the market. Instead, they have solicited an RFI for design, development and manufacturing of a small commuter plane . The plane will have a maximum capacity of 10 passengers with an unpressurized cabin. I guess they are looking at somebody like Pilatus who are offloading their PC-12 production to TASL.

But, I don't think this is a good move at all. The Saras would have given them a high performance aircraft with a category of 14-18 passengers which is not provided by any other manufacturer in India.

What is wrong with the Dornier ? Isn't it certified for civilian operations ?

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 16 May 2015 08:28

srin wrote:What is wrong with the Dornier ? Isn't it certified for civilian operations ?

IIRC the Vayudoot used to fly a fleet of Dorniers.

The Dorniers are probably too old a design to cut it in the market now.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 16 May 2015 10:24

Check out the massive landing gear with 4 wheels. I bet it can be used on ships as well like other Kamovs.

Imagine swappable ASW, AEW or rescue modules that can be stowed on ships and mated to the chopper per need.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 May 2015 10:34

there would be no room on ship for that unless you keep only 1 heli instead of 2.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 17 May 2015 01:17

srin wrote: What is wrong with the Dornier ? Isn't it certified for civilian operations ?

The Tata's will produce them now.

Aditya G wrote:Check out the massive landing gear with 4 wheels. I bet it can be used on ships as well like other Kamovs.

Imagine swappable ASW, AEW or rescue modules that can be stowed on ships and mated to the chopper per need.

Too little payload to work as ASW, AEW with suitable hang-time. Even the Dhruv is not big enough for that.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 May 2015 11:05

The IN does uses Chetak Helicopter with Dunking Sonar , Torpedo Carrier besides casevac and Search and Rescue role due to its range its limited to preimeter defence

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 23 May 2015 19:17

Singha wrote:the $4 mil price tag for a twin engine helicopter ... cheaper than a MBT .... we shall soon find out the real bill once the deal is inked

The $ 4 million per aircraft. FANTASTIC. LETS ORDER 100s OF THEM
(Extra fro engines $ 2 million, gearbox $ 1 million, rotor $ 1 million and avionics $ 1 million)

Ahhh yes Remember something called Gorshkov ? Extra $ 2 million for cables

Shall I send the bill by courier or hand deliver it to you ??

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 23 May 2015 22:37

Kersi - it was $2billion extra for cables.

nash · Post by **nash** » 27 May 2015 10:04

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 436397.cms

Speeding up defence deals: Government to ease offset clause for procurement contracts

NEW DELHI: The government will allow defence procurement contracts to go through even if negotiations for offset agreements linked to them are not sealed, in a landmark change in rules aimed at cutting down the time taken in closing purchases.

The defence ministry has, however, mandated that winners of contracts must seal offset arrangements, under which they are required to set up local manufacturing units or enter into sourcing deals locally, within a year of signing the main deal."So what we decided is to delink the conclusion of the main deal from the offsets because it takes time to identify partners," Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar told ET.

This decision to grant greater leeway to offset deals was taken at a meeting earlier this month of the Defence Acquisition Council, where it was agreed that important contracts are getting delayed because suppliers were struggling to close their offset obligations in time. The council, headed by Parrikar, is the final authority on defence procurements.

Many important contracts like the Multi-role Tanker Transport Aircraft (mid-air refueller) and the M-777 howitzer have faced considerable delays due to the offsets problem.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 15 Jun 2015 03:38

Chhota Bhai is serious about the defense business:

After acquiring Pipavav shipyard, Anil Ambani goes big on defence, raises 11 new companies

NEW DELHI: After acquiring the Pipavav shipyard, Anil Ambani has made his firmest step into the defence industry, creating a cluster of companies and applying for over a dozen licences in the past weeks to design, develop and manufacture military equipment ranging from UAVs and spacecraft to submarine systems.

In a quiet move, Reliance Defence Limited (RDL) has raised 11 new companies focused on defence — each of them targeting a potential market of at least Rs 10,000 crore. These companies, executives say, will be used as joint venture partners with foreign manufacturers looking at the Make in India initiative or for licence production of equipment. It is also looking to export defence products from India.

"The group will aim at a leadership position in the sector and is committed to deliver on time and give the best value proposition,"

At present, RDL is in the race for several defence contracts, including a $ 2 billion order for landing platform docks (LPDs) which is nearing finalisation and two helicopter manufacturing projects worth over $3 billion that are in the initial stages.

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 18 Jun 2015 03:35

HAL-Turbomeca sign JV in Paris for Rs 200-crore MRO facility for helicopter engines

India's military has already committed to buying three different types of HAL helicopters, all powered by the Shakti engine that Turbomeca custom-designed for HAL

In Paris on Wednesday, Hindustan Aeronautics Ltd (HAL) signed an agreement with French engine manufacturer, Turbomeca, to support the redoubtable Shakti helicopter engine, which would power a fleet of 1,000 Indian military choppers during the coming decade.
:
:
:

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 18 Jun 2015 03:53

PARIS: HAL selects Honeywell engine for Indian trainer prototype

Hindustan Aeronautics' (HAL) HTT-40 trainer prototype will be powered by the Honeywell TPE331-12B turboprop engine, it has been announced in Paris.

The Indian defence ministry intends to by 68 of the locally-developed trainer to satisfy a portion of its 180-aircraft requirement to replace the outdated HAL HPT-32 Deepak. The remainder of the need will be satisfied with the Swiss Pilatus PC-7 Mk II.

Once developed and delivered, the aircraft will be used for basic pilot training at the Indian air force academy.

Selection of the Honeywell propulsion unit is a step forward for HAL’s HTT-40 programme.

“Our TPE331-12B is one of the most widely used and capable turboprop engines in service today,” says Honeywell Aerospace India president Arijit Ghosh. “With our engine at its core, HAL's new HTT-40 will offer pilots rapid acceleration, low fuel consumption, improved reliability and the ability to train for a wide range of missions.”

The company has built upwards of 13,000 TPE331 engines for both military and civil platforms.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 27 Jun 2015 06:10

Boost to Make in India: Modi govt awards 56 defence licences to private cos like Mahindra, Tata & Pipavav

NEW DELHI: The Narendra Modi government has awarded a record 56 defence manufacturing permits to private sector entities in the past year, which is more than the 47 licences its predecessor UPA granted in the preceding three years combined and underlines its determination to have indigenous defence production as a cornerstone of its 'Make in India' drive.

Data released by the Department of Industrial Policy and Promotion (DIPP) shows that a slew of applications, some of which had been pending for more than four years, have been cleared since the BJP government came to power, in what is a major endorsement by it of the Indian private sector's ability to operate in an arena that has until now been the preserve of foreign vendors and state-run entities. The permits are the first step in the process to enable firms such as Mahindra, Tata and Pipavav to set up production units for major military equipment.

The Tatas will now be able to upgrade major fighting units like the T 90 and T 72 tanks of the Indian Army, while Mahindra, which has been steadily expanding its defence business in the past year, has been given permits in a number of areas, including manufacturing naval systems like torpedoes, sea mines and boats.

The permits are not only for the big boys of Indian industry, many of whom have existing defence arms and will be able to diversify their portfolios.. A slew of new small firms are poised to enter the sector based on these clearances. Bullet Proof equipment manufacturer MKU for example will now be able to manufacture night vision devices.

Bangalore-based Dynamatic Technologies has been granted a permit to manufacture Unmanned Aerial Vehicles.Pipavav Defence and Offshore Engineering Company (PDOC), which is now being acquired by the Anil Ambani-run Reliance, has got four permits to manufacture items ranging from medium tanks and howitzers to missiles, sensors and torpedoes. Experts said the government had done its bit and it was now up to the corporate sector to run with the baton.

The expedited clearances are part of a series of measures taken by the government over the past year to open up the defence sector.

Since taking charge in May last year, the government has increased the foreign investment limit for the defence sector to 49% and even up to 100% in select cases.

It has already made the process for application online and the validity of the Industrial license has been enhanced to seven years. For smaller items like components, speedy DIPP clearances are already being given.

A new defence procurement policy is expected over the next few weeks that will further clarify complex matters such as the offset policy, blacklisting process as well as a specific route for the Make in India process.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 27 Jun 2015 06:10

Duplicate - Deleted

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 27 Jun 2015 06:24

Lets see if the likes of Ajai Shukla have the intellectual capability to look beyond their anti-BJP prejudice and acknowledge the above.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 27 Jun 2015 09:24

Licenses are useless and will only lead to more screwdriver giri production. The real test would be allotment of R&D funds to Indian Pvt sector which till date is practically ZERO.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 27 Jun 2015 12:09

Austin - Chetak does not have any dunking sonar. Too small.

The MATCH is just a torpedo carrier cued by shipbourne sonar systems.

Cannot work autonomously like Seaking

For some reason, I'm not able to fathom the reason for all these light helicopters instead of additional Dhruv.

The number of small helipads is limited, and could be serviced by surviving Cheetahs while normal ALGs could be serviced by Dhruvs. Chetaks anyways are not certified to fly high altitude.

While HAL needs to step up Dhruv manufacture, and more importantly, improve spares & service, HAL could easily upgrade its Barrackpore factory to build more Dhruvs, instead of building penny packet Chetak, Cheetah, Chetan & Cheetal for Namibia, Afghanistan, etc.

http://hal-india.com/Barrackpore%20Division/M__126

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 05 Jul 2015 07:27

Anybody find it interesting that Airbus went with Tatas for manufacturing transport aircraft (C295), but chose Mahindras instead to partner with for manufacturing military helicopters in India?

I think Tatas will go with Sikorsky for helicopters.

Meanwhile, Kamov has not yet announced the Indian partner(s) for manufacturing its KA226 for which it already got DAC approval to buy 197.

No orders for Boeing Apache/ Chinook yet. Maybe the offset part is not settled yet.

BAe was expected this week to announce Mahindras as their partners in manufactuing the M777 light howitzer. Maybe last-minute snags.

Meanwhile, 'Chhota Bhai' is still looking for partners worldwide in every type of defence equipment.

Intersting times.

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 07 Jul 2015 10:29

Kakkaji wrote:Anybody find it interesting that Airbus went with Tatas for manufacturing transport aircraft (C295), but chose Mahindras instead to partner with for manufacturing military helicopters in India?

I think Tatas will go with Sikorsky for helicopters.

Meanwhile, Kamov has not yet announced the Indian partner(s) for manufacturing its KA226 for which it already got DAC approval to buy 197.

No orders for Boeing Apache/ Chinook yet. Maybe the offset part is not settled yet.

BAe was expected this week to announce Mahindras as their partners in manufactuing the M777 light howitzer. Maybe last-minute snags.

Meanwhile, 'Chhota Bhai' is still looking for partners worldwide in every type of defence equipment.

Intersting times.

I suppose this merry-go-round is bound to happen initially. I think it is a learning curve fro everybody. it may take a few deals and a few years to establish long term relation / JV.
K

ragupta · Post by **ragupta** » 10 Jul 2015 10:24

I would like to see Ambraer make its range in India. Specially 175/195 and KC-390. it should replace our effort in RTA/MTA. no point in reinventing the wheels. Since TATA has gone with AIRBUS. Mahindra/Reliance and take this up. I will distribute sweet when this happens.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 10 Jul 2015 12:19

July 10, 2015 :: Defence panel seeks pvt firms as partners

After assuming charge last November, one of Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar’s first promises was a revised and simplified defence procurement procedure (DPP), which would expeditiously provide the military badly needed equipment, while boosting indigenous defence production.

To this end, a defence ministry committee, under former home secretary Dhirendra Singh, has recommended unusually bold changes. The report will be presented this fortnight to Parrikar. Then, after consultation with other ministries and the military, the defence ministry will incorporate changes into a new DPP-2015 --- the eighth version of the DPP first issued in 2002.

Business Standard has accessed a copy of the unclassified, 207-page report, entitled “Committee of Experts for Amendment in DPP-2013”.

Key recommendations include: nominating select private defence firms as “strategic partners”, to manage complex projects on a par with defence public sector undertakings (DPSUs) and ordnance factories (OFs); raising the required level of indigenisation each year across various procurement categories; and recognising defence procurement as “strategic”, and different from routine government purchases.

Unusually for such a government report, it provides detailed justification for many of its conclusions, even summaries of discussions with stakeholders.

A path-breaking recommendation is to identify select private sector firms as “strategic partners”, which would play central roles in developing “complex and strategic systems” within the country, or receive technology transferred from foreign vendors in large defence contracts. Essentially, this resurrects the notion of “Raksha Udyog Ratnas” (RuRs), or “Industry Champions”, which the Kelkar Committee had proposed in 2005-06 to empower large private sector companies as “system integrators”. However, the United Progressive Alliance government, fearing resistance from DPSU and OF trade unions, put Kelkar’s proposal on the back burner.

Now this could be back in contention. The report notes: “There is a need to create a capacity for absorbing technology… in the private sector on account of their agility, innovation and modern management practices… One will therefore have to create an avenue for selection and nurturing of a strategic partner on a long term basis.”

Executives from private sector companies with a large exposure to defence, like Larsen & Toubro and Tata Power, tell Business Standard they welcome this.

However they sharply criticise the report’s recommendation that “cartelization” be nipped in the bud by restricting each strategic partner to a single strategic system. The report also proposes to ban strategic partners from cross holdings in each other’s companies, and to require government permission for any material change in their share holding structure.

“We have built up capabilities in multiple sectors over decades. Restricting us to a single strategic system is absurd, especially if there are no other companies with such competences and the alternative is export”, says a senior executive from one of India’s most respected private sector defence companies.

The report also proposes to raise the mandatory indigenous content in various categories of procurement, with each successive DPP raising it incrementally, as each level stabilises. In DPP-2015, the 30 per cent indigenous component currently mandated in the “Buy (Indian)” category is proposed to be raised to 40 per cent, and to 50 per cent in the DPP after that. The current 50 per cent indigenous norm in the “Buy and Make (Indian)” category is proposed to be raised to 60 per cent in DPP-2015, and 65 per cent in the next revision.

Defence firm CEOs accept the percentages need a relook. Most agree the 30 per cent indigenous norm is absurdly low for the “Buy (Indian)” category, which, as the name suggests, involves the procurement of supposedly Indian products. On the other hand, in the “Buy and Make (Indian)” category, the indigenous stipulation of 60 per cent is considered high since the product would be manufactured with transferred technology, and it would take time to absorb technology and develop local vendors to boost indigenisation levels.

“It would be far better to have a flexible norm, varying between 30-70 per cent, which is laid down by the categorisation committee based on the product and its prospects for indigenisation”, suggests a DPSU official.

The report, for the first time, distinguishes between routine government procurement and the special nature of defence procurement. It notes that the General Financial Regulations (GFR), the government’s financial rulebook, is intended to guide routine purchases, whereas defence acquisitions are far more complex. For example, current procurement rules ensure that a “single vendor situation” delays procurement by 36 weeks, even though 70 per cent of defence procurements are single vendor based.

The report articulates a clear strategy to promote indigenous defence industry. The first part involves favouring procurement that creates opportunities for Indian industry. DPP-2013 already favours the “Buy (Indian)”, “Buy and Make (Indian)” and “Make” categories, which mandate high levels of indigenisation; over the “Buy (Global)” and “Buy and Make” categories, which allow a greater role to foreign production. Taking this further, the committee recommends that “within the Buy (Indian) and Buy and Make (Indian) the indigenous content has to increase steadily and significantly.”

Next, the strategy recognises that “Make in India” is useful only if intellectual property (IP) is generated, and systems are designed in India. The report states: “’Make in India’ (should) not become ‘assemble in India’ with no IPR or design controls and thereby perpetuating our dependence on the foreign supplier.”

Third, the strategy recognises the need to expand the market for vendors by “ballasting of indigenous capacity with a civil component and wherever feasible, an export component”.

Finally, the report leverages offsets into indigenisation strategy, recommending that, once Indian defence vendors start functioning more actively, “directed offsets” should be used to obtain critical technologies from foreign vendors

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 11 Jul 2015 05:11

Tata Motors bags order for 1,200 trucks from Indian Army

NEW DELHI: Tata Motors today said it has bagged an order worth over Rs 900 crore to supply 1,200 multi-axle trucks to the Indian Army.

It is the single largest order awarded to an Indian company in land systems by the Indian army and comprises 1,200 units of high-mobility 6X6 multi-axle trucks, Tata Motors said in a statement.

The trucks will be used for loading-unloading and transportation of ammunition pallets, spares and other operational equipment, it added.

Developed indigenously, the Tata 6X6 high mobility all- terrain all-wheel drive vehicle, has completed a total trial duration of 25 months, demonstrating maximum performance in the most demanding conditions, the company said.

"We at Tata Motors are extremely proud to have bagged the single largest order, among Indian OEM's from the Indian army, for the most technologically advanced high mobility load carrier system ever built here in India,"

Are these replacements for the Tatra vehicles?

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 11 Jul 2015 05:30

Riding on Make in India wave Tata Motors wants to build battle tanks

The defence division of Tata Motors, the country's largest automobile maker, is eyeing Rs 60,000 crore of contracts to build combat vehicles. There is a silent race between companies to have the largest piece of the $100-billion worth of defence acquisitions laid out by the government over the next decade from local companies.

Vernon Noronha, vice-president, defence and government business, Tata Motors, said: "In the past two years of the previous government, there were almost no orders. One year after the present government came to power, all our stuck files started moving and there was quick acceleration of orders. This has enthused not only Tata Motors but the entire industry."

Indian companies are quickly building capabilities to grab a piece of the defence pie.

In two weeks, Mahindra & Mahindra (M&M) forged alliances with two European companies to supply underwater warfare equipment and military helicopters. The Anil Ambani-led Reliance Group entered the sector with the acquisition of Pipavav Defence.

"Earlier, RFPs (Request for Proposals) were issued at a snail's pace. Today, the Indian Army and ministry of defence are chasing companies, asking us to put our vehicles for trials as fast as possible," said Noronha.

The Rs 60,000-crore contract to build a Future Infantry Combat Vehicle is one of the biggest defence contracts of recent times. The previous government had floated an Expression of Interest (EoI) in 2008, after which eight private Indian companies responded. These had included Bharat Forge, Titagarh Wagons, M&M and Tata Motors. The Modi government scrapped the previous EoI and a revised one is expected in the next couple of months.

Beside, orders worth Rs 1,053 crore for the light armoured multipurpose vehicle, Rs 1,000 crore for armoured personnel carriers and Rs 3,000 crore for general service vehicles are being targeted by companies. A wheeled infantry combat vehicle is being built by Tata Motors in association with the Defence Research and Developent Organisation, of which the army is looking to procure 100 units.

"Eventually, we would like to become a manufacturer of light tanks and then the main battle tank. That is how we would like the progression to happen. The army released a request for information to develop the Future Ready Combat Vehicle, which will be the main battle tank. We have put in a response," added Noronha.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 11 Jul 2015 05:50

Eventually even the R&D is going to be gobbled up by companies like Tata. Things are moving rather quickly.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 11 Jul 2015 06:17

Kakkaji wrote:Riding on Make in India wave Tata Motors wants to build battle tanks

The defence division of Tata Motors, the country's largest automobile maker, is eyeing Rs 60,000 crore of contracts to build combat vehicles. There is a silent race between companies to have the largest piece of the $100-billion worth of defence acquisitions laid out by the government over the next decade from local companies.

Vernon Noronha, vice-president, defence and government business, Tata Motors, said: "In the past two years of the previous government, there were almost no orders. One year after the present government came to power, all our stuck files started moving and there was quick acceleration of orders. This has enthused not only Tata Motors but the entire industry."

Indian companies are quickly building capabilities to grab a piece of the defence pie.

In two weeks, Mahindra & Mahindra (M&M) forged alliances with two European companies to supply underwater warfare equipment and military helicopters. The Anil Ambani-led Reliance Group entered the sector with the acquisition of Pipavav Defence.

"Earlier, RFPs (Request for Proposals) were issued at a snail's pace. Today, the Indian Army and ministry of defence are chasing companies, asking us to put our vehicles for trials as fast as possible," said Noronha.

The Rs 60,000-crore contract to build a Future Infantry Combat Vehicle is one of the biggest defence contracts of recent times. The previous government had floated an Expression of Interest (EoI) in 2008, after which eight private Indian companies responded. These had included Bharat Forge, Titagarh Wagons, M&M and Tata Motors. The Modi government scrapped the previous EoI and a revised one is expected in the next couple of months.

Beside, orders worth Rs 1,053 crore for the light armoured multipurpose vehicle, Rs 1,000 crore for armoured personnel carriers and Rs 3,000 crore for general service vehicles are being targeted by companies. A wheeled infantry combat vehicle is being built by Tata Motors in association with the Defence Research and Developent Organisation, of which the army is looking to procure 100 units.

"Eventually, we would like to become a manufacturer of light tanks and then the main battle tank. That is how we would like the progression to happen. The army released a request for information to develop the Future Ready Combat Vehicle, which will be the main battle tank. We have put in a response," added Noronha.

Thank God the UPA got kicked out. Five more years, and economy and defence would have both been in the toilet.

JE Menon · Post by **JE Menon** » 11 Jul 2015 14:25

^^the whole country would have been flushed by these anti-India snakes

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 11 Jul 2015 14:58

India Facing Dearth of Cryptographers, Says Former DRDO Chief

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 12 Jul 2015 01:30

Even if the private Indian conglomerates get all the Indian govt funded R & D goodies and there is a outcry of sell-out to certain indian industrial houses by the congressi snakes, Modi govt should move full speed ahead and involve the private sector if they can guarantee fast ramp up, increased production and most important to delivering on schedule.

d_berwal · Post by **d_berwal** » 12 Jul 2015 18:25

Kakkaji wrote: Are these replacements for the Tatra vehicles?

No they are not replacement of Tatra.

These are for Army Supply Corps (ASC).

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 12 Jul 2015 23:23

d_berwal wrote:No they are not replacement of Tatra.

These are for Army Supply Corps (ASC).

Thanks d_berwal

What was the ASC using before?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 13 Jul 2015 00:25

^^^"Each C-17 cost the National exchequer USD2Billion! " (NitiCentral)IIRC, the figure is closer top $200 million.

Ankit Desai · Post by **Ankit Desai** » 14 Jul 2015 01:23

Navy looks to Russia for three more frigates, as domestic shipyards lag

...the Indian Navy is initiating the purchase of three Grigorivich -class frigates (Project 1135.6) from Russia. These warships are improved variants of the six Talwar-class....

Just two Indian shipyards have ever built a frigate - Mazagon Dock Ltd, Mumbai (MDL) and Garden Reach Shipbuilders & Engineers, Kolkata (GRSE).

Russian experts have evaluated three private yards for their potential to build these frigates: Larsen & Toubro's Katupalli shipyard, at Ennore, Tamil Nadu; Pipavav Shipyard in Gujarat; and Cochin Shipyard Ltd (CSL) in Kochi, Kerala.

The Russians will take a commercial decision on which Indian shipyard to partner. We will not interfere", says a senior Indian naval officer,speaking on condition of anonymity. Once they decide, the navy will formally initiate the procurement, he says.

-Ankit

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 14 Jul 2015 01:48

^^I don't get this. If the Pipavav or L&T shipyards can build the new Russian frigates, why can't they be givven a contract for 3 new Shivalik's instead?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Jul 2015 02:21

And why would the Russian experts create more competitors? What are the safeguards in place to prevent a HSL type case all over again?

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 14 Jul 2015 02:33

Karan M wrote:And why would the Russian experts create more competitors? What are the safeguards in place to prevent a HSL type case all over again?

Is there a reason that you can think of that the navy doesn't even seem to consider the prospect of more Shivaliks?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 14 Jul 2015 02:36

The report says time and that Talwars are well liked. IMO neither is a convincing reason, given time delay will occur with local production.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 14 Jul 2015 02:40

Karan M wrote:The report says time and that Talwars are well liked. IMO neither is a convincing reason, given time delay will occur with local production.

Exactly! If they are going to build those ships in India, they might as well build Shivaliks at whatever private sector shipyard they want. Very little chance of delays and unforseen problems since MDL can be ordered by the govt. to transfer all designs and knowhow to the selected pvt. shipyard.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 14 Jul 2015 02:50

From the above link:

With these two occupied with building seven stealth frigates under Project 17A, Yantar will partner a private Indian shipyard.

Has the order been already placed for additional P-17A? If so, then the navy wants have two classes of frigates: 10 shivalik and 9 talwar.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 14 Jul 2015 04:04

^^P-17A is not Shivalik, it's the next class and the construction is supposed to start in 2017.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 14 Jul 2015 05:01

That's what I meant, two classes 6000+ tonnes and 4000+ tonnes, Hope they begin construction in a way that all 7 can be inducted within 3-4 years as two shipyards are contracted.