Military Acquisitions, Partnerships & Developments

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 08 May 2012 17:01

And still our armed forces face shortage of critical equipments.

Go saint! Go MMS! Go Sonia!

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 08 May 2012 18:01

See, we have not reequipped our forces for nearly 3 decades due to funds shortage. Except after Op Vijay, where we did some knee jerk purchases, we haven't actually done any shopping. The 10 years have been very fruitful. For example, it was not just we purchased equipment, we purchased in near correct perspective. For example, IAF has gone through MMRCA deal with actually calculating upfront price and life cycle costs. On contrast, Army purchases suffer on account of helios and arty for hanky panky stuff and Army could not fully finish the evaluation. So, there was a rationality in purchases. Other deals are in various stages due to their own unique perspective.

The fact that 100 $ $ will be spent by India in 10 years has been latched on by world 10 years back. others who are waking up also know that an almost near equal amount waits next ten years.

The shortage is on account of 3 decades of doing nothing. Contrary to popular belief, we have only benefited in past 10 years.

Quite a lot of work has gone in these years.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 09 May 2012 04:26

Chako,
Don't bother with logics, mullahs will always have issues with Jews!

X-posting ToI report - India to raise 'offensive' corps to tackle threat from China
Saint uwacha in rajya sabha....

Antony said, "Under 12th Defence Plan, we have sent a proposal to Finance Ministry to raise an offensive Corps with two special divisions and it is in final stages. The force-level has been increased substantially."

He said the government had earlier approved raising of two mountain divisions along with a Special Forces battalion, an artillery brigade and an armoured regiment for deployment in the northeast sector.

"We have been given Rs 1.93 lakh crore this year but as per the estimated requirement of the armed forces, we would want Rs 2.39 lakh crore. We want Rs 45,716 crore more. I have asked the Government to provide us more money."

chackojoseph · Post by **chackojoseph** » 09 May 2012 10:16

Katare wrote:Chako, Don't bother with logics, mullahs will always have issues with Jews!

yeah!

Kaman and Kineco form composites joint venture in India

They have a presence in def aerospace.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 09 May 2012 13:53

chackojoseph wrote:See, we have not reequipped our forces for nearly 3 decades due to funds shortage. Except after Op Vijay, where we did some knee jerk purchases, we haven't actually done any shopping. The 10 years have been very fruitful. For example, it was not just we purchased equipment, we purchased in near correct perspective. For example, IAF has gone through MMRCA deal with actually calculating upfront price and life cycle costs. On contrast, Army purchases suffer on account of helios and arty for hanky panky stuff and Army could not fully finish the evaluation. So, there was a rationality in purchases. Other deals are in various stages due to their own unique perspective.

The recent letter by General pointed out the lack of basic ammunition so it's no just the unavailability of "hanky panky stuff" which is causing pain. The purchase of these "hanky panky stuffs" don't full-fill the need of bread and butter ammo, otherwise the general wouldn't have had to write a letter to the PM.

The fact that 100 $ $ will be spent by India in 10 years has been latched on by world 10 years back. others who are waking up also know that an almost near equal amount waits next ten years.

This sentence shows the level of strategic blindness we suffer from and will continue to do so in the near future but going into this will only raise a lot of if's and but's so lets see for how long we remain in this state.

The shortage is on account of 3 decades of doing nothing. Contrary to popular belief, we have only benefited in past 10 years.

Quite a lot of work has gone in these years.

True but after committing loads of mistakes but nevertheless some movement has definitely occurred.

I don't see the need to do Jai X or Jai Y as if the people in power are doing some favour to India by doing what should be done. No need to bring in politics here.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 09 May 2012 20:07

Additional $1.3 billion for defence communication network

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 09 May 2012 23:07

so that mahindra-rafael sounds interesting.. ton of systems we wanted, is in the vision.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 09 May 2012 23:58

Who/what is Jai X and Jai Y?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 10 May 2012 03:05

its like Hail X or Hail Y not names.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 10 May 2012 04:19

Given the paucity of news around IJT, this is a welcome development.

Further, eight simulators of Intermediate Jet Trainer (IJT) aircraft, have also been contracted for.

Several other updates contained within the link as well.

- JaiX

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 10 May 2012 13:54

By Jai X or Jai Y I meant why do jai jai kaar of individuals for doing their job, they are not doing any favour to India. Though thank god I didn't write "Jai S" while putting my point forward could have let to a "situation"

alexis · Post by **alexis** » 10 May 2012 19:01

After Kargil, a definite momentum in defence acquisitions have happened. Successive NDA and UPA governments have been better than their predecessors.

arun · Post by **arun** » 10 May 2012 21:08

X Posted from the Indian Military Aviation thread.

Acquisition of 75 Pilatus PC-7 Mk 2 approved by the CCS:

Govt clears Rs.1,800 crore trainer aircraft deal

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 11 May 2012 02:51

Sagar G wrote:By Jai X or Jai Y I meant why do jai jai kaar of individuals for doing their job, they are not doing any favour to India. Though thank god I didn't write "Jai S" while putting my point forward could have let to a "situation"

So only fck X and Fck Y no "Go X" and no "go Y" or jai X Y. Pretty mean innit?

give credit where it's due and you earn your right to criticise when you see a slip/fault or whatver, is all I say. Rest are just mullahs, driven by idiology not facts.

Sagar G · Post by **Sagar G** » 12 May 2012 02:14

Katare wrote:So only fck X and Fck Y no "Go X" and no "go Y" or jai X Y. Pretty mean innit?

give credit where it's due and you earn your right to criticise when you see a slip/fault or whatver, is all I say.

Absolutely credit should be given where and when it's due but I don't see the reason to go Jai Ho for what, spending the allocated money ??? Or the billions of $$$ going into foreign coffers because of the strategic blindness suffered by our so called "leaders" for ages. I don't see anything exceptional being done by this government which makes sure that India will have a strong MIC and to top that as each day passes we only hope that our remote control doesn't carry out a strategic blunder to get a pat on his back by the gora brotherhood. And wasn't he recently whining about India being left behind in science by China. In power since 2004 and in 2012 our Sherlock Holmes has an epiphany that we are sucking in science. What the hell was he expecting, that he would wave his PhD in parliament and lo and behold India will become a super duper scientific power ???? After all these years being in power and getting all kinds of hanky panky stuffs what do we get to hear, that we have critical shortage of even basic ammunitions. This too wouldn't have been known if the General's letter hadn't been leaked and our Saint comes out and says "The person who did this is a traitor". In office since 2006, has the powers to take critical decisions, talks about drive against corruption at the drop of a hat and what do we get to know ??? That our war reserves are critically low. I will comment on Mata Rome when she gets time from trying to settle down her munna raja.

All the rants aside surely some work has been done LCA, Arjun, Akash, R&D Infrastructure creation etc. etc. and they have been commended upon as and when they have happened but please don't set the bar of duty/expectations so low that our defence money gets spent and you go lady gaga over it. Have you even spared a thought about knowing how and where the money was spent before doing Jai Ho ???? As I said before no one is doing a favour to India here, it's their duty which they have to fullfill. No jai jai kaar for doing so.

Rest are just mullahs, driven by idiology not facts.

True look for facts instead of doing Jai Ho.

JaiS · Post by **JaiS** » 14 May 2012 17:09

Delivery of Equipment by HAL

The government has taken cognizance of the complaints of Indian Air Force regarding the delayed delivery of equipment by the Hindustan Aeronautics Limited (HAL). IAF has expressed concerns over the deliveries of some of the products of HAL. There have been delays in some projects in current range of production by HAL due to rework of Jigs supplied by the OEM in respect of Hawk; delay in establishing the facilities for complex engine components and radar software in respect of SU-30 MKI aircraft; delay in certification of Shakti engine by the OEM in respect of ALH; changes in Standard of Preparation (SOP) in respect of LCA and delay in engine development by the OEM in respect of IJT.

The government continuously monitors the performance of the company and takes steps to address the issues. In respect of Hawk, SU-30 MKI aircraft and ALH, the issues have been addressed. In respect of LCA and IJT development efforts have been intensified.

This information was given by Minister of State for Defence Dr MM Pallam Raju in a written reply to Shri Antony in Lok Sabha today.

tejas · Post by **tejas** » 14 May 2012 20:26

The fundamental problem with India's dysfunctional MIC is that it predominantly state owned AND virtually monopolistic. That is a fatal combination which if it is not undone will cause India to forever be importing propeller driven planes from countries smaller than India's largest cities. The example of BEML is nauseating. Importing 3rd rate trucks from a 4th rate Oiropean manufacturer and doing nothing but screwing on the license plates. Then when spare parts prices go up 5,000 percent simply pass that on to the IA.

Meanwhile St. Anthony can be counted on to in his own words "protect the interests of the (parasite DPSU union) workers." I thought his job was to protect the nation and its interests not selfish/useless unions. But you learn something every day. Of course both the useless management within these at best mediocre PSUs and their political masters can take advantage of the built in scam potential these companies provide. That is the real reason privatization (as in the rest of the civilized world) doesn't take place. Meanwhile I heard Bosnia Herzegovina has some seat covers for the Pilatus planes HAL will license build. They are willing to ToT for a reasonable price.

kit · Post by **kit** » 14 May 2012 21:04

According to the MOD no country makes the entire range of military equipment .It makes economic sense to outsource the low tech labour intensive equipment esp for nations with high end manufacturing.But India is not in the big league of manufacturing.I think its time the Tatra trucks are replaced by indigenous manufacturers.

shyamd · Post by **shyamd** » 15 May 2012 01:56

Russia ready to set up Mig Plant in India
May 14, 2012
Combined reports
A defence ministry delegation is expected to leave for Moscow shortly to finalise, arrangements for the purchase of Russian Mig Supersonic Jet Fighters for the Indian Air Force.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 15 May 2012 01:59

^^

That article seems to be from the 60's. It talks about Pakistan's acquisition of F-104s from the US and India's subsequent decision to buy Migs (Mig-21s) from the Soviets. What is it doing here?

Talks have been going on for the purpose between India and the Soviet Union for some time and India is now understood to be anxious to obtain fighter planes of comparable performance in view of the supply of F-104-g jets to Pakistan by USA.

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 15 May 2012 02:05

Folks this item is originally from DC 50 years ago section. The other website just copied it without looking at the content else they would have realized their mistake.

India is now understood to be anxious to obtain fighter planes of comparable performance in view of the supply of F-104-g jets to Pakistan by USA.

The original...
Russia ready to set up Mig Plant in India

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 15 May 2012 02:08

pankajs wrote:Folks this item is originally from DC 50 years ago section. The other website just copied it without looking at the content else they would have realized their mistake.

That explains it. The geniuses at indrus.in didn't even notice anything odd with the mention of "Soviet Union" .

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 15 May 2012 05:16

http://forums.bharat-rakshak.com/viewto ... &start=240
pliss to visit for a double laugh!

reminds me of school kid joke.. a cheating kid asks his partner what is the answer for a question on test.. partner answers "goli maro".

teacher remands him next day in the class!

yes, he actually wrote that answer - goli maro.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 16 May 2012 00:42

http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=18507
High Value link

MN Kumar · Post by **MN Kumar** » 16 May 2012 14:48

SaiK wrote:http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/NEWS/news ... wsid=18507
High Value link

Looks like the FMS deals are also covered under the offsets clause. Details about the offset's would be even more interesting.

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 May 2012 19:59

That is good to hear. FMS have offsets

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 17 May 2012 04:57

Pranab's austerity measures

MoD isn't referenced but expect to see some portion of capital allocation returned.

Roperia · Post by **Roperia** » 18 May 2012 11:58

India to Help Boost Nigeria’s Air Defences

Kersi D · Post by **Kersi D** » 20 May 2012 22:01

shyamd wrote:Russia ready to set up Mig Plant in India
May 14, 2012
Combined reports
A defence ministry delegation is expected to leave for Moscow shortly to finalise, arrangements for the purchase of Russian Mig Supersonic Jet Fighters for the Indian Air Force.

MiG xy. Next lemon from Russia, after T 90zuw.

K

PS Hope IAF has better sense than IA

d_berwal · Post by **d_berwal** » 20 May 2012 22:34

Kersi D wrote:
shyamd wrote:Russia ready to set up Mig Plant in India
May 14, 2012
Combined reports
A defence ministry delegation is expected to leave for Moscow shortly to finalise, arrangements for the purchase of Russian Mig Supersonic Jet Fighters for the Indian Air Force.
MiG xy. Next lemon from Russia, after T 90zuw.

K

PS Hope IAF has better sense than IA

Do you know that F-104g the article mentions was used in 65 Indo-Pak war... this seems to be a recycled article ... lol

kit · Post by **kit** » 22 May 2012 15:18

http://www.flightglobal.com/news/articl ... te-372155/

please cross post if needed,matter is sgnificant

The US Senate Armed Services Committee has issued a report stating that China is a major source of counterfeit electronic components found on aircraft such as the L-3 Communications/Alenia C-27J, Lockheed Martin C-130J and Boeing P-8A.

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 28 May 2012 22:52

I don't know where to put this. So..

A K Antony triples armed forces' financial powers to allow Rs 150 cr purchases

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 601225.cms

An important development when, especially when seen along with the recent power given to IA allowing it to purchase equipment for special forces.
Having said that, Rs 150 crore is still not much. Needs to be at least Rs 450-500 crore IMO.

Anthony Hines · Post by **Anthony Hines** » 29 May 2012 20:55

Lots of stuff that IA could use...

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2012 ... |FRONTPAGE

Shrinivasan · Post by **Shrinivasan** » 30 May 2012 23:52

Anthony Hines wrote:Lots of stuff that IA could use...

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2012 ... |FRONTPAGE

hopefully the TSPA would not wind up with most of these stuff for free

srai · Post by **srai** » 31 May 2012 03:40

Gaur wrote:I don't know where to put this. So..

A K Antony triples armed forces' financial powers to allow Rs 150 cr purchases

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 601225.cms

An important development when, especially when seen along with the recent power given to IA allowing it to purchase equipment for special forces.
Having said that, Rs 150 crore is still not much. Needs to be at least Rs 450-500 crore IMO.

Rs 150 cr is around $30 to 40 million US dollars. It is enough for purchases of inventory parts and ammunition for existing equipments, but not enough for major purchases of new equipments.

Nikhil T · Post by **Nikhil T** » 31 May 2012 04:59

srai wrote:
Gaur wrote:I don't know where to put this. So..

A K Antony triples armed forces' financial powers to allow Rs 150 cr purchases

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/new ... 601225.cms

An important development when, especially when seen along with the recent power given to IA allowing it to purchase equipment for special forces.
Having said that, Rs 150 crore is still not much. Needs to be at least Rs 450-500 crore IMO.
Rs 150 cr is around $30 to 40 million US dollars. It is enough for purchases of inventory parts and ammunition for existing equipments, but not enough for major purchases of new equipments.

Ideally, major purchases of new equipment should need civilian control.

We can't judge if Rs 150 cr is enough or not without data on how the Chiefs used this power in the past. Most important point would be to know if Service Chiefs can spend this with discretion or does the DPP process have to be followed.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 31 May 2012 05:54

Shrinivasan wrote:
Anthony Hines wrote:Lots of stuff that IA could use...

http://www.defensenews.com/article/2012 ... |FRONTPAGE
hopefully the TSPA would not wind up with most of these stuff for free

It cannot.

A lot of the stuff was specific to the war efforts in Iraq and A'sthan. Unless TSPA is attacked by the very insurgents TSPA supports a lot of this equipment (for which it was very specifically designed) is of no use to anyone. (One of the reasons it is difficult to dispose.)

Indian Army could use some of it in Kashmir. TSPA, I do not see a use.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 10 Jun 2012 03:41

India's 1000+ military helicopter shopping list
http://www.rediff.com/news/slide-show/s ... 120607.htm

The IAF is inducting 139 Russian Mi-17 V-5 medium lift helicopters, for an estimated $2.4 billion. The workhorse Mi-17, which transports 26 soldiers in combat gear, or four tonnes of supplies to high altitude posts, has been in IAF service for decades, but the new-model V-5 is a vastly superior machine, with new engines, rotor blades and avionics. An IAF order for 80 Mi-17s is already being delivered, which is likely to be followed by an order for 59 more. Fifteen American CH-47 Chinook heavy lift helicopters will be bought to replace the IAF's Russian Mi-26 helicopters, of which just three to four remain serviceable. The Chinook, built by Boeing, has seen extensive combat, most recently in Iraq and Afghanistan. The IAF has evaluated the helicopter and is pleased with its avionics and power, which allows it to accurately deliver 50 fully-equipped soldiers, or a payload of 12.7 tons, on to the roof of a house or the edge of a cliff. The IAF has also completed trials for the purchase of 22 medium attack helicopters, and homed on to Boeing's AH-64 Apache.
Attack helicopters, which operate from close behind the forward troops, provide immediate fire support -- cannons, rockets and anti-tank missiles -- to soldiers that encounter the enemy, providing them a battle-winning advantage. The IAF and army have also placed a Rs 7,000-crore order for 159 Dhruv Mark III utility helicopters. These have been designed and built by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, which builds 36 Dhruvs each year. There is an estimated need for more than 350 Dhruvs for the Army, IAF, coast guard and paramilitary forces. The Navy is buying an additional 50 light, twin-engine helicopters, most probably from AgustaWestland. The Dhruv does not meet its needs since its composite rotors cannot be folded up for stowing the helicopter in a warship's tight confines. In addition, the navy is procuring another 91 medium, multi-role helicopters to replace its vintage Sea King fleet, which flies from larger frigates and destroyers. A global tender is out for 16 helicopters, to which another 75 have been added. Riding on the Dhruv's success is HAL's Rudra, a heavily armed version of the Dhruv, which carries a cannon, rocket pods, anti-tank missiles and a full suite of electronic warfare equipment. The army and the air force will buy 76 Rudras.AL is also developing the Light Combat Helicopter, of which 179 are on order (IAF 65; army 114).
This 5.5-ton light armed helicopter features the Shakti engine, the Dhruv's dynamic components (main rotor, tail rotor, and the gearbox), and the weapons suite that is being developed on the Rudra. The LCH will be a high altitude virtuoso: taking off from Himalayan altitudes of 10,000 feet, firing guns and rockets up to 16,300 feet, and launching missiles at UAVs flying at over 21,000 feet. The military's other bulk requirement is for 384 light utility helicopters, or LUH's, to replace the army and IAF's obsolescent Cheetahs and Chetaks.
This has been divided into two streams: 197 LuHs are being bought off-the-shelf through a global tender; and 187 LuHs are being developed and built in India by HAL.

Vipul · Post by **Vipul** » 10 Jun 2012 05:11

India to buy 8 warships from S Korea for 6k crore.

In tune with a growing 'strategic partnership' with South Korea, India is now getting all set to ink a major defence contract with the north-east Asian country for acquisition of eight advanced minesweeping and hunting warships.

Under the programme, which will be worth well over Rs 6,000 crore, India will get two of the mine counter-measures vessels (MCMVs) directly from South Korean firm Kangnam Corporation, while the other six will be manufactured by Goa Shipyard after transfer of technology. "The contract is now being finalized after the conclusion of the commercial negotiations," said a source.

India's need for advanced MCMVs that combine the role of traditional minesweepers and active mine-hunters to detect and destroy underwater mines is critical. Despite intelligence inputs holding that Indian harbours face the clear and present danger of underwater mines being planted by both state as well as non-state actors, the Navy's MCMV project has been hanging fire for several years now.

"Underwater mines are cheap weapons that can be used for high-impact incidents. It's relatively easy for someone to lay mines at the harbour approach or departure routes. There is need to step-up the protection of our harbours and offshore installations," said an official.

Made of composite material and high-grade steel to ensure 'minimal magnetivity', the new MCMVs will have high-definition sonars and acoustic and magnetic sweeps to first detect all kinds of marooned and drifting mines and then use remote-controlled systems like small underwater vehicles to then detonate them at safe distances.

kit · Post by **kit** » 20 Jun 2012 01:03

How will the economic downturn affect current and ongoing acquisitions ? More importantly how will this affect indigenous development ? Who will prioritize which projects to carry on especially in DRDO ?